Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Lusche on July 30, 2021, 12:46:49 PM
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Tanks vs tank action 2016 (last full year of AHII) compared with 1st half of 2021
Number in [] behind the name is the perk cost, which hasn't changed from AHII to AHIII
(https://i.imgur.com/fKEnczl.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/4zqkk8V.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/l7iMVBA.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/2036TQU.png)
While I took the current year's numbers for this comparison, they would have been very similar for any point in time after AHIII went live. It was a rather abrupt (and massive) change in tank usage & successes that resulted directly from the introduction of the last AH version.
Interestingly, the KD of T34/85 vs Tiger I engagements went from 0.75 to 1.26 which means the sides have reversed - without any change in the vehicles themselves. The Tiger I barely manages to hold a 1.15 K/D vs all tanks combined while still having a price of 20 perk points.
I'd say a tank perks adjustment is long overdue...
(And no, this thread is not about the Yak-3 :neener:)
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So the numbers are exactly what it feels like, nice work!
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suggestions?
I thought getting rid of perks altogether would be interesting. except for the tiger II.
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I thought getting rid of perks altogether would be interesting. except for the tiger II.
I think the only change we would see is an increased usage of the Panther, but the T-34 would still totally dominate the field, especially when attacking.
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I agree at 7mph faster than every other tank there’s good reason not to take it.
Optics, and armor are advantages for other tanks but the map designs negate those because of all the trees. so every engagement is less that 1200 yards.
Of course the trees provide some cover against bombyards. so there no good answer for tank warfare.
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Something changed in the Tiger1, I noticed immediately it became a 1 hit death magnet after it had it's perks adjusted when the KingTiger appeared.
I believe I complained about it at the time. :joystick:
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Maybe a perk increase on the T34/85 and a perk decrease on the Panther?
The zoom feature seems to be the only aspect of the Panther that is an advantage. Long range shooting is rare now with all the trees and vegetation.
Seems like since returning from AH2 to AH3, the Panther took a lot more damage to bring it down than it does now...
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That said, Is it a bad thing that everyone uses the same tank? sounds fair to me. forcing diversity for diversity’s sake is usually not a good thing.
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That said, Is it a bad thing that everyone uses the same tank? sounds fair to me. forcing diversity for diversity’s sake is usually not a good thing.
You T34 supremacist you!!!! :old:
Sorry, couldn't help myself, carry on :D
But in general, the game becomes stale when everyone plays in the same best ride.
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That said, Is it a bad thing that everyone uses the same tank? sounds fair to me. forcing diversity for diversity’s sake is usually not a good thing.
Perk points costs were introduced back in the day exactly for that reason, when the F4UC was becoming the dominant plane in the arena.
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That said, Is it a bad thing that everyone uses the same tank? sounds fair to me. forcing diversity for diversity’s sake is usually not a good thing.
I think we’re talking about variety here rather than diversity (in the modern use of diversity)...
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It was a rather abrupt (and massive) change in tank usage & successes that resulted directly from the introduction of the last AH version.
I'd say a tank perks adjustment is long overdue...
To say that the change in tank usage resulted directly from the "introduction" of AHIII isn't exactly correct. Several players began switching to the T34 prior to AHIII because of the Panzers vulnerability against smaller faster GV's. In addition - many GV players did not make the switch to AHIII, and the majority of GV'ers that did, were more seasoned and understood the advantages/ disadvantages of the Panzers & the T34/85.
The Panzer use to be the most popular Tank in here. I will admit that the current usage of the T34 may create the "perception" that it underperforms with regard to the T34/85 especially to new players. However, it is still a vehicle that deserves your attention in battle.
Maybe a perk increase on the T34/85 and a perk decrease on the Panther?
The zoom feature seems to be the only aspect of the Panther that is an advantage.
The T34/85 perk cost (in an economic sense) makes it the best value per sortie. Raise the T34 perk cost, and Lower the Panthers, doesn't really change anything. Change the perk value, the herd will change to the better valued tank. Then history will repeat itself, and players will complain that the Panther is under perked. Either way somebody is getting shot. . . . .lol
Stating that the "Zoom feature seems to be the only aspect of the Panther that is an advantage" basically says there is lack of understanding in the differences between tanks. Each GV has their advantages and disadvantages. Many players - especially new players think the bigger gun/ tank has the advantage. The Tiger 1 & 2 are good examples. Once a player saves enough perks to up one and then proceed to lose it, (sometimes it takes two or three ) they understand that the T1 & 2 are generally not worth the perk expenditure in a good battle. The reality is that there is only a handful of players that understand how to use the T1 & T2 effectively. (And I am not one of them)
So if the Panther only has a modest advantage over the T34 then why raise the Cost of the T34/85? If everybody is on an even playing field using the same tank - What is the problem? I have read a couple different threads concerning this now and it appears that the only players "suggesting" or "complaining" about perks are not exactly proactive in understanding their GV or the Ground game.
Anyway, I am not sure why this has become an issue. Gvs are a tool and part of the fun in here is learning to select and use a GV to counter another or use in particular situation or battle. If somebody thinks there isnt enough diversity then why dont they select something else?
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TyFoo i think according to your logic there shouldn't be any perk costs or eny associated with different tanks. Personally I don't understand why the t34/85 costs about the same as the M4/76 or m18 and why the firefly costs more.
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TyFoo i think according to your logic there shouldn't be any perk costs or eny associated with different tanks. Personally I don't understand why the t34/85 costs about the same as the M4/76 or m18 and why the firefly costs more.
Would think because the 17 pdr on the Firefly is pretty well a consistent 1 shot kill on a T34/85. But don't miss and get ready to scoot fast (at 20mph floored) because 1 hit from just about anything wipes out a Firefly.
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TyFoo i think according to your logic there shouldn't be any perk costs or eny associated with different tanks. Personally I don't understand why the t34/85 costs about the same as the M4/76 or m18 and why the firefly costs more.
No, that is not it at all. If you don't keep the perks up on the Tigers, Jags and Panthers (or higher perked rides) then I think there would be a greater disparity between combatants and the ground game would lack balance. Killing a guy One or Four times that just paid 140 perks each time for a T2, brings balance back pretty quickly. . . . lol
Players with a bank account full of perks will naturally migrate to the one tank that meets their return on investment. Currently that is the T34/85. For those that cannot afford the perks? They will still be out of luck and must choose a lower perked/ free ride. So if the T34 cost more than the Panther - everybody will migrate to the Panther. Then what? We have big Panther fights all day instead of T34s? How does that help the guys/ newbs that must use the Panzer in order to participate?
If players want GV diversification, because they do not want to fork over perks, or for diversification sake then they should be the first ones to divest themselves from the use of the T34 first and set an example, and that certainly is not happening. . . . . lol
As far as ENY I must have missed that, but as long as you mentioned it. . . .ENY is a great example of GV usage. I think we can agree that when ENY goes through the roof, and people cant use their preferred ride, a lot of players get frustrated and log. Personally, myself and others I team with couldn't care less what ENY is doing, its an opportunity to practice using other GVs or switching to planes.
Hence a long time ago AH created that dastardly "Mano the Magnificent" and his Marvelous M8. . . . .lol
A lot of "GV suggestions" come from players that are not satisfied with some aspect of the ground game because they are not getting out of it what they want. And who can blame them? But if they want change based on some perception in their mind that they think would make things easier - IMHO they would be better served by investing their time learning the ground game rather than trying to change it. HiTech has done a pretty good job balancing out the ground game.
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I think it has been stated that perks were to maintain something that resembled the ratios od usage in the war. If true, then T-34 should be dominant and T2 rare. by that measure the perks are correct.
WRT the C-hog. It was a very rare plane in the war so it was perked to restore historical numbers as much as to cut back on it’s dominance. So I’m on the fence about trying to limit use of the war’s most prolific tank.
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From the numbers I've read there were waaaay more T-34 75s made then 85s so I'm not sure that it's working to do anything in a historical context if that was the intent.
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There were more 85s built than other variants (including postwar numbers).
But the historical numbers being the reason for perks also can't be true. For example, the Ta 152 was extremely rare with under 100 built, yet the perk price was removed.
It is clearly how good the plane or vehicle is compared to other counterparts in-game.
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Aye. I was talking about in WW2 not over all as I don't think the 85 was available until late war.
Guess I wasn't being clear.
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There were more 85s built than other variants (including postwar numbers).
But the historical numbers being the reason for perks also can't be true. For example, the Ta 152 was extremely rare with under 100 built, yet the perk price was removed.
It is clearly how good the plane or vehicle is compared to other counterparts in-game.
yes because even without perks no one uses it
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yes because even without perks no one uses it
So you agree that historical numbers have little to no bearing on perk point values.
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(https://i.imgur.com/alft0Cp.png)
Kill shares of four significant tanks (based on all kills by tanks). AHIII was introduced at the end of September 2016. T34/85's share jumped up by one third from one tour to the next.
Now don't get me wrong - changes in usage, even quite radical ones are neither something special nor any new. Long time ago the Sherman VC was the most popular 'premium tank', before falling back into obscurity after changes the vehicle system in general and an armor bugfix in particular. One tank or plane being most used is normal, and a significant part of the set being 'hangar queens' is to be expected, too.
But when the most used tank is also one of the best/most successful ones and has a dominating position in the arena (massive share in kills), while much higher perked tanks are almost never used because they are arguably hardly worth it, there's a problem in my opinion.
Players don't chose between a capable but free tank or chose to risk some perks for superior performance. The as good as free T-34/85 (2 perks is nothing, when a single supply run in an M3 gives you three times as many) is almost always the best choice for the job in AH's current terrains, with the sole exception of the very expensive Tiger II, perhaps.
We had a very similar situation in the air with the F4U-C, which resulted in the creation of the perk system. Also, the Ta-152H and Spitfire XIV lost their perk status later on, while the Me 163's price was doubled.
Maybe an adjustment could be something like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/w2KpbO4.png)
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I think those proposed numbers look fair, and i suspect the GV regulars have more than enough perks to cover the cost of 10 points for the T34/85. For some reason I thought the Jagdpanzer IV/70 had a perk cost on it, guess I should pay more attention.
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And add 1-2 to the Wirble while we're at it. :)
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For some reason I thought the Jagdpanzer IV/70 had a perk cost on it, guess I should pay more attention.
It has, I even had it right in my initial post in this thread. :bhead
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It has, I even had it right in my initial post in this thread. :bhead
:rofl
As a bad GV'er I'd take it out more often for 2.
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Kill shares of four significant tanks (based on all kills by tanks). AHIII was introduced at the end of September 2016. T34/85's share jumped up by one third from one tour to the next.
Already explained with the usage of smaller, faster GVs, as well as the retention of more experienced players w/ the introduction of AHIII.
One tank or plane being most used is normal, and a significant part of the set being 'hangar queens' is to be expected, too.
But when the most used tank is also one of the best/most successful ones and has a dominating position in the arena (massive share in kills), while much higher perked tanks are almost never used because they are arguably hardly worth it, there's a problem in my opinion.
How is "One Tank or Plane being most used is normal" not going to be the most successful and dominant tank? Again in the days of Old most players wouldn't use the T34/85 because of its "good as free" perk cost. Because Panzers were/ are Free. That attitude changed a long time ago just as your chart shows.
Higher Perked tanks are not used because of the cost to use them for a given situation, you use what is appropriate and affords you the most time for a sortie. You don't borrow Scott66's Semi truck to haul one box of Kleenex tissues from the store to the house when you can drive your car or ride a bike do ya?
Players don't chose between a capable but free tank or chose to risk some perks for superior performance.
Ummmmmm, yeah - they - we - I - do choose GVs based on capability, situations, mission, fun, and perk cost. I don't know any experienced player that doesnt choose GVs based on capability, and perk cost for a given situation. This goes back to Newb day - when you start out with Zero perks and don't have access to the more expensive equipment.
Now your proposal is to raise and lower perks based on a discussion brought up by a couple of players. Ok, but there is a consequence to New players, Less experienced players, and Players without perks in the bank by doing this. As an example - just like when starting out, they save one or two dozen perks using the Panzer or other free perked GV, and then get into a Spawn battle use a T34 and lose everything within 2-3 sorties. Then what?
They go back and HAVE to CHOOSE a "Free" tank, because they have no other choice if they wish to continue playing. There are several players in here that choose the Panzer for its "Free" value and no loss of perks when killed.
Although the T34 cost 2-3 perks and sometimes up to 4 perks - when getting killed more than you score kills - 2, 3, or 4 perks subtracted from the GV Savings account can drain it pretty quickly. As for the M3 and getting perks? You get 1 -1.5 perk per supp run during normal hours. Late at night when you are outnumbered 2, 3, or 4 to 1 yes you get 2.5-3.5 perks sometimes more. Which leads into another argument about the overuse of the M3 and raising the perks higher blah blah blah which I wont go into here.
A player can already diversify their GV usage and learn to use other tanks and learn different attacks using something like the M8, M3 and get anywhere from 8 - 48 perks in a single sortie. But most don't. There are plenty of opportunities for players to use whatever tank they want. However there is/ are and will be players that have to start out in the "Free" tanks and work their way up.
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Hence a long time ago AH created that dastardly "Mano the Magnificent" and his Marvelous M8. . . . .lol
mano now has a bush-phobia.
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And add 1-2 to the Wirble while we're at it. :)
this ^ id make the Wirble 1 perk to justify its historical numbers and give players a reason to use the M16. I would still think the M18 deserves to be 1 perk due to its speed.
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And add 100-200 to the Wirble while we're at it. :)
Fixed that for you.
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If the rumors are true that there are players out there using a ginned-up reshader to see through trees, then this discussion is moot.
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I think it has been stated that perks were to maintain something that resembled the ratios od usage in the war. If true, then T-34 should be dominant and T2 rare. by that measure the perks are correct.
WRT the C-hog. It was a very rare plane in the war so it was perked to restore historical numbers as much as to cut back on it’s dominance. So I’m on the fence about trying to limit use of the war’s most prolific tank.
I did a little search on perks, and found this:
"The perk system is a way for HTC to introduce some interesting but otherwise unbalancing planes on a limited basis but the benefits go deeper than that. Perk planes (and vehicles) would be things like Me 262s, Ta 152s, Tempests, B-29s, Ar 234s, Tiger IIs, etc. These are interesting rides but would be very unbalancing if they were available on an unlimited basis. So there won't be unlimited availability but they'll be available as bonuses or perks."
https://www.hitechcreations.com/features/perk-points
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Something has changed with the T34/85 ammo/armor. Shots that killed Panzer's and M4's 8 months ago now do nothing. That includes deadly side shots. Shots being fired, that appear to go through the enemy gv, with no effect. Point blank (50 yd.) shots that do nothing to a Wirbl. A kill shot that takes the gv 3 to 4 seconds to explode (may be lag).
With all this, we have to remember, Hitech can't/wont do anything without film.
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I have not seen any changes over the years in where gv's are vulnerable nor in how many shots it takes to kill a given gv. That seems constant. Non of
the updates has changed any of the damage models.
I mostly use the M-8 and I have to hit a specific spot on a gv to get a kill. I have killed Panthers, Tiger 1's, T-34/85's, T-34/76's,
Wirbles, Ostwinds, Panzer F, Panzer H, M-4's of the three varieties, and all three Hetzer versions. All GV's take 3 shots with AP rounds for the kill, with
the exception the Tiger 1 takes 5 rounds. Every gv has a specific spot where they are vulnerable. I cannot kill a Tiger 2.
The Panzer F and H can be killed with two rounds if you get behind them. I have killed Panzer F's and H's with one shot,
but you have to be high above looking down. You can pop the turret of the T-34/76 and 85 version with one shot from high above or from behind point blank.
There is nothing wrong with HiTech's Perk system. No changes need to be made. It is more than fair for everyone. If a player concentrates on learning one specific gv he or she can get really good if they practice offline and learn the vulnerabilities of every gv. It takes time and patience.
I have observed players take a Tiger 2 to a spawn battle and attempt to do battle while in close range to other gv's. They lose their T-2 right away because it was
historically a long range shooter. The side armor and rear armor are thin when compared to the front armor. If a Tiger 2 driver stays at least 3 to 4 thousand yards or further away from enemy gv's he can last a very long time, especially if the front armor faces the enemy at all times. The front armor of the turret needs to face the enemy at all time as well.
There are a few players that are really good in the T-2. The T-2 is too slow for me so you rarely see me use one.
The T-34/85 is the best all around tank for it's perk price because of sloped armor, good speed at 32 mph, and for that it is the most used gv in the game. It is also the most difficult for me to kill with the M-8 because it has the fastest turret of all AH tanks. It's turret can point up higher than other tanks so it main guns a lot of a/c. It also reloads a lot faster than the T-34/76. I often get a kill of a 76 because of it's the slower reload time. The Russians produced them in really high numbers and had a lot of success against the German tanks because they
just kept on manufacturing more. German tanks in general were slower.
If you ask some of the veteran gv'ers to help you it will not be long before you do well in any gv.
:salute
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If the rumors are true that there are players out there using a ginned-up reshader to see through trees, then this discussion is moot.
I have side switched a fair amount since its implementation. I’ve heard this “rumor” on all 3 countries and the players names that are said to be using a program to get rid of the trees and vegetation are always the same (of course I can’t name them here...)
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but you can send in the videos you have recorded to HiTech.
In the tower set it to record all sorties.
:salute
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but you can send in the videos you have recorded to HiTech.
I have done this, I have followed up a couple of times, and he recognizes something is up. My email chain with him began in 2018.
I guess he's super busy.
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I have done this, I have followed up a couple of times, and he recognizes something is up. My email chain with him began in 2018.
I guess he's super busy.
:uhoh
:confused:
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Tanking is for plebs, change my mind
:D
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Tanking is for plebs, change my mind
:D
Dolby wears pink dresses..... Change my mind
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I mostly use the M-8 and I have to hit a specific spot on a gv to get a kill. I have killed Panthers, Tiger 1's, T-34/85's, T-34/76's,Wirbles, Ostwinds, Panzer F, Panzer H, M-4's of the three varieties, and all three Hetzer versions. but you have to be high above looking down. You can pop the turret of the T-34/76 and 85 version with one shot from high above or from behind point blank.
Care to share those specific spots on specific GVs?
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Those specific spots are classified :D :D :D :D
all kidding aside.....
I set up gv drones offline and hit all the gv's from various locations and angles looking for soft spots.
an example.....the Panzer F and G: They both have this little tank on the back......might be a gas tank or could be exhaust pipe....I am not sure,
but if you hit it twice from any distance,....kaboom. I guess that is why you often see Tankman driving with his turret facing the rear :neener:
Wirbs and Osties.....hit the turret 3 times....they explode. Two to three shots in side armor they explode. The turret is more important to hit so they don't shoot back :D
Once you go through each gv, you understand HiTech's damage model better. All these guys calling other players cheaters on 200 is nonsense. They do not know where to hit
enemy gv's. High shots on T-34's will ricochet all day long because the angled armor is modeled into the game.
The only way to understand the damage models is to shoot all the gv's offline. Then it becomes quite clear where you shoot each one.
btw.....I made little diagrams on 3 x 5 cards of the difficult gv's (ie. Panther, T34/85) and labeled the best spots.
Poor Hetzers......they have multiple soft spots.....and I am not surprised they
are rarely used anymore. If you take out the engine they are doomed because they do not have a turret. M-8's will eat them for lunch.
you have to shoot each gv one by one. It does not take long.....20-30 minutes...you are done.
There are also tactics that have to be used. If you see a Tiger 1 go into the trees......wait and see if he gets hung up on one.......Tigers can rotate in place
and can get their slow turret around quicker when they rotate in place......so if you want to get behind the tiger......wait until he gets stuck......so you can get five shots
off before his turret finally comes around. There are two soft areas on the Tiger 1 (hint hint hint) Sometime the turret can not shoot if there is a leaf in the gun sight. LOL :D :D :D
It is a fun game and the M-8 is a challenge to learn.
Good luck,
:salute
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.......and be careful when Scotty is around.
That guy always steals all of the donuts and cinnamon rolls.
:rofl
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.......and be careful when Scotty is around.
That guy always steals all of the donuts and cinnamon rolls.
:rofl
snitch!
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Good stuff Mano! Thanks for sharing. :aok :salute
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The T34 got 7,638 more kills than the second place beast Wirble last tour and had a better K/D of 1.7. Do yall even realize how many kills that is? Almost 10% of all AH kills.
The damn thing needs to be perked higher and I don't even play in tanks.
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The T34 got 7,638 more kills than the second place beast Wirble last tour and had a better K/D of 1.7. Do yall even realize how many kills that is? Almost 10% of all AH kills.
The damn thing needs to be perked higher and I don't even play in tanks.
Wow 10%. I didn't know it was that much. Wow!
And you don't even Tank. . . . . What a surprise. . . . lol
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Wow 10%. I didn't know it was that much. Wow!
And you don't even Tank. . . . . What a surprise. . . . lol
I'm wondering if it is 10% because it is OP? Or because a lot of GV action is occurring?
Harder to run to ack in a GV I guess.
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I'm wondering if it is 10% because it is OP? Or because a lot of GV action is occurring?
Harder to run to ack in a GV I guess.
In the current year, the T-34/85 has a K/D of 1.26 vs the Tiger I.
The T34 has a perk cost of 2. The Tiger I has 20.
This is what it's all about.
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I'm wondering if it is 10% because it is OP? Or because a lot of GV action is occurring?
Harder to run to ack in a GV I guess.
It's much easier in a GV since they bring the Ack with them. :bhead
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If the T-34/85 is perked really high my M-8 is REALLY going to get a lot more kills. No one will drive it anymore if it costs too much. We will make our own WW2 history in AH3. :D
Maybe we should lower the perk cost of the Me-262 down to 10 perk pts so everyone can fly one. That will make all the fighter pilots happy fer sure :old:
:salute
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It's much easier in a GV since they bring the Ack with them. :bhead
:)
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..
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10% of one GV/Plane sure seems like a lot to me.
I’d imagine the P51D is right up there too.
Maybe lowering the perk cost of Panther and Tigers would increase usage of them vs this might T34/85.
Personally the optics in the T34s don’t work all that well with my graphics, but most don’t seem to have that problem...pinging me at 2-3K+
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Just make the M4 76 free is all I would like to see changed. I am going to be out a practice when I come back this fall, I will be dying allot in it. :rofl
:salute Mano
:salute Tyfoo
See ya'll this fall!
The t34/85 should been 10 points only for Tyfoo.
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Not being a GVer, maybe this is an ignorant comment, but:
The perk point cost for T34s is so minimal, and GVers generally have so many perk points stored up, that adjusting the perk point cost of a T34 might have no effect whatsoever on game play unless it were truly a draconian shift.
Opinions?
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Just make the M4 76 free is all I would like to see changed. I am going to be out a practice when I come back this fall, I will be dying allot in it. :rofl
:salute Mano
:salute Tyfoo
See ya'll this fall!
The t34/85 should been 10 points only for Tyfoo.
M4’s don’t cost any perks. The Firefly does, 2-4 iirc
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M4’s don’t cost any perks. The Firefly does, 2-4 iirc
M4 76 has a minimum perk value.
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Yeah the m4 76 and t34 85 are almost the same perk cost which makes no sense...
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Another take. This is current years tank combat k/d in combat against other tanks only:
(https://i.imgur.com/v9NhTsy.png)
The additional numbers are the perk costs.
The T34/85 manages to hold a k/d of two, despite being the most used tank by a huge margin (see earlier stats) and being used on the offensive much more than tanks like the Tiger I of the Jagdpanther.
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https://chris-intel-corner.blogspot.com/2012/07/wwii-myths-t-34-best-tank-of-war.html (https://chris-intel-corner.blogspot.com/2012/07/wwii-myths-t-34-best-tank-of-war.html)
Generally, in a contest at normal fighting ranges between a Panzer IV H and the T34-85, the winner was the one who spotted and got first hit on the other.
What are the normal fighting ranges in AH, and what ammo can be used ?
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Maybe an adjustment could be something like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/w2KpbO4.png)
To be honest, I'd like to see the tiger 2 in use more. It's so expensive that no one will drive it off a base.
maybe 50 or 75 for a Tiger2 That would still be 5X to 7X more expensive than a Panther or a T-34. I think I have 5 tries at a Tiger2 with a T-34 out in the country side I'd win. We need a number that get's the T2 drivers off the base.
I like the idea of T-34s and Panthers costing the same. It would be nice to see them battle on equal footing to see which people really prefer.
Also the The Sherman with the Rockets is the one that should be perked. I think that's the 75mm. Why? Because it can flatten a town in no time with some resupply boxes. No other GV can do that.
I think the current usage is based on the current perks. So as you change the perks and the usage changes, the perks can be tweaked. might take an iteration or two to dial it in. But as always well done Snailman
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I like the idea of lowering the cost of the Panther. Maybe down to 8 perks. Every GV'er can afford that.
I will get a lot more Panther kills with my M-8 if there are more running around the arena. :D :D :D ......... and they count !
btw......... the T-34/85's are really hard to kill. ......and maybe raise them to a 5.....so we see more Panzers ..... :embarrassed: :banana:
:salute
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https://chris-intel-corner.blogspot.com/2012/07/wwii-myths-t-34-best-tank-of-war.html (https://chris-intel-corner.blogspot.com/2012/07/wwii-myths-t-34-best-tank-of-war.html)
Generally, in a contest at normal fighting ranges between a Panzer IV H and the T34-85, the winner was the one who spotted and got first hit on the other.
What are the normal fighting ranges in AH, and what ammo can be used ?
Might have been true IRL WW2, but it’s not in AH…
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The t34/85 is really the only tank that is not correctly perked in my opinion. It should be perked more than the firefly for one thing. It is way faster, has a 85 mm gun with allot faster turret, and harder to kill. Why is it even close? The m4 76 is one perk most of time but sometimes 2 and the t34/85 is 3 perks most of the time I believe. Now look at the range in perks between the t2 or the tiger and the t34/85. Just don't seem right only 1 or 2 perks between the m4 76 and the t34/85 compared to range of perks going on up to the tiger one or the tiger 2. I really think the perks for the t34/85 should be at least 8.
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To be honest, I'd like to see the tiger 2 in use more. It's so expensive that no one will drive it off a base.
maybe 50 or 75 for a Tiger2 That would still be 5X to 7X more expensive than a Panther or a T-34. I think I have 5 tries at a Tiger2 with a T-34 out in the country side I'd win. We need a number that get's the T2 drivers off the base.
I like the idea of T-34s and Panthers costing the same. It would be nice to see them battle on equal footing to see which people really prefer.
Also the The Sherman with the Rockets is the one that should be perked. I think that's the 75mm. Why? Because it can flatten a town in no time with some resupply boxes. No other GV can do that.
I think the current usage is based on the current perks. So as you change the perks and the usage changes, the perks can be tweaked. might take an iteration or two to dial it in. But as always well done Snailman
I disagree, for the old timers, you choose the best tank for the job, M4 w/rockets to take down a town, T2 for long range defense, T34/85 for general combat. Then there is the preferences, some like the Panzer optics over the T34/85 optics, then you have the ordinance selection. There are numerous reasons for selecting a specific tank for a specific mission. Perk cost is just one of many, and with most of the old gv-ers having anywhere from 15,000 to 30,000 vehicle perk points, that is a minor issue.
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I disagree, for the old timers, you choose the best tank for the job, M4 w/rockets to take down a town, T2 for long range defense, T34/85 for general combat. Then there is the preferences, some like the Panzer optics over the T34/85 optics, then you have the ordinance selection. There are numerous reasons for selecting a specific tank for a specific mission. Perk cost is just one of many, and with most of the old gv-ers having anywhere from 15,000 to 30,000 vehicle perk points, that is a minor issue.
well the Old GVers don’t make up all the players in the game. 😁
so while some don’t care about perk price, the general population does. proof? if you drop perk cost of a T2 significantly, you’ll see it used more. I’ll bet money on that. 😉
B-29s and 262s can change who wins a map. thats why they cost 200 perks a piece. Does a Tiger2 change the outcome of the map vs a T-35-85? That difference isn’t anywhere near 197 perks worth of difference. players like me who have 500 gv perks would never take a T2 out. So why have a T2 if everyone is too afraid to lose it?
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Last time I used a Tiger II, it went poof 30 seconds out of the hangar. Didn’t seem like it was a rear or side shot, but it was one shot.
There went 20% of my perks
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Last time I used a Tiger II, it went poof 30 seconds out of the hangar. Didn’t seem like it was a rear or side shot, but it was one shot.
There went 20% of my perks
If T-34s become more expensive folks will be less inclines to lose 200 or 100 perks on a T2.
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If T-34s become more expensive folks will be less inclines to lose 200 or 100 perks on a T2.
If Tiger 2’s perks were dropped you’d see more of them of course…
Their armour really isn’t that OP except in the front. Long range fights with them too.
Side armor is no better than any other tank from what I can tell
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Side armor is no better than any other tank from what I can tell
It's better. The key is knowing where to hit the T2. You obviously were killed by someone who did.
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Jagdanthers are even rarer than t2s.
Up the perk price for t34/85s. They are they are one of the hardest to kill with a stupa!:)
And with more panzer and Sherman's around it would he interesting to see m8s and m18s more in play!
But seriously perk planes or gvs should be expensive enough that over time the losses cost you more perks than you earn from that vehicle.
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Is the use of HVAP and quite a generous amount of those shells part of the issue with the T34/85? I'm just thinking about a different angle than making it a 8 perk ride.
A balancing act could be to start issuing rare but special APC rounds like the pzgr 40 out to german tanks perhaps.
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The T34/85 is the best tank in the game. I can't seem to find details on the ammo availability of the HVAP ammo but it seems like it is too abundant.
The T34/85 really should be perked a bit higher. The Firefly and the Jagdpanzer should both be perked lower.
There are a number of things I SMH at in terms of perks, ENY, etc, but alas I just play the game. The biggest beef I have is the quality of the optics are not modeled. Soviet options should be similar to looking through a glass of iced tea. Instead, they enjoy the same clarity of German optics which is a travesty.
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The T34/85 is the best tank in the game. I can't seem to find details on the ammo availability of the HVAP ammo but it seems like it is too abundant.
The T34/85 really should be perked a bit higher. The Firefly and the Jagdpanzer should both be perked lower.
There are a number of things I SMH at in terms of perks, ENY, etc, but alas I just play the game. The biggest beef I have is the quality of the optics are not modeled. Soviet options should be similar to looking through a glass of iced tea. Instead, they enjoy the same clarity of German optics which is a travesty.
Not even close to the same, especially in low light. German optics, in game, are significantly better than the Russian. :cheers:
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The biggest beef I have is the quality of the optics are not modeled. Soviet options should be similar to looking through a glass of iced tea. Instead, they enjoy the same clarity of German optics which is a travesty.
As Kenai pointed out, the T34's optics are terrible compared to most GVs.
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It's better. The key is knowing where to hit the T2. You obviously were killed by someone who did.
Not sure how you can see well enough at 1k+ to place your shot extremely accurately. Maybe your graphics are better than mine?
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I'm not sure how some of you think 7,000+ more kills than any other unit is not constituted as overkill...
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What is the difference if the T34 gets 7,000+ kills "over" other tanks or if the Panther or Tiger 2 gets em? If this discussion was about balance I would understand, but it isn't. "World of Tanks" has an easy mode.
So the T34/85 has become the choice of GV players with little or no complaint. BUT because a few people do not want to learn anymore about the ground game than what they already know - things need to be changed?
That sounds oddly familiar, almost like the G*v**nm**t sticking their nose into things - you know that same entity many of these same guys whine about. . . lol . . . the paradox "to fix what isn't broken" . . . thats great. . . lol
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If Tempests were 2 perks and dominated the air war id want their perks adjusted too...
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What is the difference if the T34 gets 7,000+ kills "over" other tanks or if the Panther or Tiger 2 gets em? If this discussion was about balance I would understand, but it isn't. "World of Tanks" has an easy mode.
So the T34/85 has become the choice of GV players with little or no complaint. BUT because a few people do not want to learn anymore about the ground game than what they already know - things need to be changed?
That sounds oddly familiar, almost like the G*v**nm**t sticking their nose into things - you know that same entity many of these same guys whine about. . . lol . . . the paradox "to fix what isn't broken" . . . thats great. . . lol
I don't think you have actually read my posts.
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There needs to be a reason as to why people would want to choose a tank that is NOT a T34/85 and currently as Kenai said it's rocket tank, fancy german tank or t34/85.
The tiger should be a good defensive tank but in game ranges and hvap 85 turtles leave it more vulnerable than it was in reality. 2 well positioned tigers operating in relays to reload and refuel could hold back 30 t34s.
The M4/76 and jagdpanzer should be free imho when an 85 is just so damn common and is so cheap on perks. That would possibly counter the current trend.
The unpredictable nature of it's armour can be it's real quality.
A panther can be turreted by 20mm and possibly 50cal. Why is it 10 perks more. Correct me if I'm wrong but why would anyone choose a panther with this glaring weakness for general tanking?
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I decided to roll a Tiger 2 to a base. Nothing was being rolled to kill me but T-34-85s. After 12 or 13 kills, the few of them got me. But it speaks volumes that death after death, they still roll the T-34-85, because 2 perks might as well be 0.
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I decided to roll a Tiger 2 to a base. Nothing was being rolled to kill me but T-34-85s. After 12 or 13 kills, the few of them got me. But it speaks volumes that death after death, they still roll the T-34-85, because 2 perks might as well be 0.
Some people use it as a crutch, not all. The T-34 is a funny beast, there's a couple of easy kill points, but other times when you expect an easy kill you get nothing (most recently I had a side shot with a 75mm, 100m or less, got a hit splash but no damage/kill).
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i think the only true tank to tank kill I've gotten in a year, was when i took town down and a t34 killed 2 m3s. flyboys stared yelling about a tank next to the flag. i slowly turned a corner and saw it. only had he, never carry ap, aimed to rear and to my surprise, i tracked him and smoked him. put another round in same place and it blew up.
I was surprised more than he was.
semp
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i think the only true tank to tank kill I've gotten in a year, was when i took town down and a t34 killed 2 m3s. flyboys stared yelling about a tank next to the flag. i slowly turned a corner and saw it. only had he, never carry ap, aimed to rear and to my surprise, i tracked him and smoked him. put another round in same place and it blew up.
I was surprised more than he was.
semp
:rock :banana:
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all this talk about armor is missing the point. I kill 90% of gvs including tanks I shoot at with 1 shot. Thats because the terrains ensure that 90% of shots will be less than 1000 yards and 99% less than 1500yrds.
so with armor and gun being irrelevant. Speed of the turret, reload time, and speed of the tank are what matters. T-34 is 1st, 4th, 1st respectively.
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‘The tiger should be a good defensive tank but in game ranges and hvap 85 turtles leave it more vulnerable than it was in reality. 2 well positioned tigers operating in relays to reload and refuel could hold back 30 t34s.
A panther can be turreted by 20mm and possibly 50cal. Why is it 10 perks more. Correct me if I'm wrong but why would anyone choose a panther with this glaring weakness for general tanking?’
What he said :aok
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Panther cannot be killed with .50 cal, a 20mm can disable it at close range though, it was meant to kill stuff at range.
In War thunder simulator mode the T34-85 in non-town environment get picked off with ease with any german 75mm up to 800 yeards providing you know where to shoot.
In towns the early T34-85 are really good due to fast revolving turrets and superior mobility, they share the same combat rating as the Panther D in War Thunder.
The better gun, late T34-85 have the same combat rating as the Panther A (faster gun traverse) in War Thunder.
A penetration is not a automatic kill, it is a degradion of its performance until it burns or ammo explode, with crew members wounded or worse.
Thats why the Germans always kept on shooting at a enemy disabled tanks until they burned.
The T34s in general are exceptionally bad compared with german tanks due to they are more cramped, and more of its crew/systems get affected by a penetration.
Not everything is good in WT, APCR ammunition suck in there, and some tanks are overpowered compared with it's peers, best examples are the late KV1 series, and early Tiger I that share the same battle rating as the Panther D.
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I believe the panther can be disabled with a solid stream of 50 cals from a steep angle. Panzer can be killed pretty consistently with 50 cars from above. I find m4s not so much and t34s impossible. Gotta use a stuka for them.
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Panther cannot be killed with .50 cal, a 20mm can disable it at close range though, it was meant to kill stuff at range.
In War thunder simulator mode the T34-85 in non-town environment get picked off with ease with any german 75mm up to 800 yeards providing you know where to shoot.
In towns the early T34-85 are really good due to fast revolving turrets and superior mobility, they share the same combat rating as the Panther D in War Thunder.
The better gun, late T34-85 have the same combat rating as the Panther A (faster gun traverse) in War Thunder.
A penetration is not a automatic kill, it is a degradion of its performance until it burns or ammo explode, with crew members wounded or worse.
Thats why the Germans always kept on shooting at a enemy disabled tanks until they burned.
The T34s in general are exceptionally bad compared with german tanks due to they are more cramped, and more of its crew/systems get affected by a penetration.
Not everything is good in WT, APCR ammunition suck in there, and some tanks are overpowered compared with it's peers, best examples are the late KV1 series, and early Tiger I that share the same battle rating as the Panther D.
war thunder like world of tanks uses rng for damage.
semp
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within a small percentage, it does.
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I believe the panther can be disabled with a solid stream of 50 cals from a steep angle. Panzer can be killed pretty consistently with 50 cars from above. I find m4s not so much and t34s impossible. Gotta use a stuka for them.
Yak 9T can turret T-34s, Panthers, and Tigers fairly easily. The hardest tank to turret would be the M4 because of the small turret size.
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Wondering how the KV’s would match up in AH and how much they get used.
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Kv-1 does not have the gun to compete in AH with late war models, it share the same gun as the T-34 76.2 mm.
The Sis model KV-1 have favorable all around armor compared with the Sherman, and specially the Panzer IV.
KV1's series are early to mid war war heavy tanks, replaced with the IS-1, and to some extent with the KV-85, that reused the chassis of the KV-1, both with the same gun as the T34-85.
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As Kenai pointed out, the T34's optics are terrible compared to most GVs.
I'm not sure what you're thinking of here, I just went and double checked: the T34/85 has no distinguishable difference in clarity compared to the Panzer IV H or Panther. The Panther simply has a better zoom (5X). I maintain the optics on the T34's are erroneously modeled, they are far too giving.
The reticles on the T34x's are not favorable, the Germans have a better system for sure. The Yanks and Brits have graduated marks in their optics which has its benefits.
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As Kenai pointed out, the T34's optics are terrible compared to most GVs.
Smokinloon, I hardly see any clarity difference either.
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I believe the reference was to clarity in real life.