Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: ImADot on October 23, 2008, 09:29:09 PM
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Don't flame me for asking...don't want to wade through old posts (tech changes too fast).
I got the :aok from the missus to spend up to $1500 on parts for a new PC. I will need everything from the case to all the goodies inside. I've already got all the CH USB gear, and will be springing for a 24" widescreen - prolly be getting TrackIR Pro too. I also do lots of Photoshop stuff and just started making movies (AH2 movies of course).
Hit me with the list. Sounds like you guys know your stuff - I trust ya.
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Start with Intel E8500. I really like my abit board but there are a bunch out there. And you can't go wrong with a PC Power and Cooling power supply.
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Well if he does lots of photoshop and some movie making, I'd opt for the quad-core over a dual-core. I've got free time now so I'll see what I can do on Newegg.
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The BenQ 24" is NICE IMHO.
I have the...
http://www.benq.us/products/LCD/?product=785
and no ghosting at 1920 x 1080.
Using a DVI cable here as well.
As to a case, this is a VERY NICE case
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/511
and so is this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133143
Guess it depends on how much you want to spend?
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If you do a lot of movies,video and 3D, I recommend a quad core processor(quad cores are supposed to be better for 3D, video and movies). These guys will rip me for suggesting this. Aces High will play way above the average with either Intel or AMD's quad cores.
Intel is the best for gaming by far. The E8500(Duo core) is used by a lot of gamers for around $200 and can easily be overclocked in the mid 3's(G). Priced nicely.
Did a quick search check this link:
http://shopping.yahoo.com/s:Processors%20and%20Upgrades:4168-Brand=Intel:1600-Processor%20Type=Core%202%20Duo:4150-Clock%20Speed=2.800_3.330;_ylt=Ak3vdAhBMAVbdSD6p3GxDMNkicAF?y=g
Now bear with me for 1 moment. I have a AMD 9850 black edition. Rated good for AMD's first shot at quad core. Factory clocked at 2.5 g and can be overclocked to 2.8-3.0. I haven't had any problems. I run a MSI k9A2 motherboard but ASUS MVP dleuxe is also a nice board for the processor and the money.
The AMD 9950 is out and factory clocks at 2.6 g and can easily overclock to 3.0 g. Only about $185
check this link:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103291
I feel AMD is priced right and but the q6660 got a nice rating and is priced nicely too. Do a google search and compare. Intel has more new quad cores out but a bit pricey. All I am saying the AMD 9850 and 9950 are awesome and Aces High will play great with either.
The other guys will make good suggestions too! MrRip, Challenge, Flotsom and especially Skuzzy will make maybe better suggestions than me. This was my 1st computer build and I am very happy for the money and did some research at the time. I can also give you real good feedback on the latest video cards if you need that too.
As for Intel Motherboards may be the other guys can suggest good ones as I did not do any research on mb's for Intel.
Death
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Does the $1500 include the monitor or not? Will you also need things like a keyboard, mouse, speakers? If so what all will you re-use from your old system or parts drawer?
What else will you do with the system beside play AH?
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Now before I get into this, this was actually harder than I thought since we're starting completely from scratch and I didn't want to skimp on some parts, on other areas I did. Now I went with a quad core since you said you did some Photoshopping and movie editing. The quads will clock slower than their dual core brothers (at the same price point), but will shine more in multimedia applications than games. If you're more serious in gaming, I'd opt for the faster clock speeds of the dual cores as they do better for games for the money.
To keep the price down, I skimped on the case/accessories rather than the guts of the PC. A lot of the parts I selected I went with the best rating customers offered on Newegg, rather than researching benchmarks or official reviews (for time reasons).
Alas, I'm eager to see what other people post with their setups. There are a lot of options out there, so remember there can be several brands/models of a part that you can interchange w/ anyone's recommendaiton. Anyways, here's what I did in about 30 minutes.
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9300 Yorkfield 2.5GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80580Q9300 - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115043
$249.99
ASUS P5Q Pro LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131299
$119.99 - $15 MIR = $104.99
SAPPHIRE 100242L Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102747
$164.99 - $20 MIR = $144.99
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231122
$54.99
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148288
$69.99
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102006
$85.99
LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE Model DH-20A4P-04 - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106228
$21.99
Acer P243WAid Black-Silver 24" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor with HDCP Support - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009125
$339.99
PC Power & Cooling S61EPS 610W Continuous @ 40°C EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703005
$109.99 - $30 MIR = $79.99
Logitech 967738-0403 Black USB Standard Deluxe 250 Keyboard - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126013
$6.99
Logitech SBF-96 Black 3 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB Wired Optical Mouse - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104026
$8.25
GIGABYTE GZ-X5BPD-500 Black SECC Steel / ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811233039
$34.99
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition SP3 English for System Builders 1 Pack CD - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116511
$89.99
TOTAL BEFORE REBATES: $1,358.13 (NO S/H)
TOTAL AFTER REBATES: $1,293.13 (-$65)
AVG S/H: $50-60?
TRACK IR 4 w/ CLIP: +$150 (NO S/H)
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Intel is going to beat AMD in Multimedia applications any day.
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Here's what I came up with quickly. This is a complete system including monitor, mouse, keyboard, speakers, etc. I also included an aftermarket CPU cooler and a floppy drive for easy BIOS updates ($7.50... can't go wrong).
I opted for the Core2Duo over the quad core as the Wolfdale will easily handle casual photoshopping, AH movie-making, etc. If you're doing pro stuff then I'd get the Q6600.
There are a TON of rebates included in this selection of components so shipping should be easily covered.
Update GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3R LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Model #:GA-EP45-UD3R
Item #:N82E16813128359
Return Policy:Limited 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
Mail-in Rebate
$119.99 $119.99
Update EVGA 512-P3-N873-AR GeForce 9800 GTX+ 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
Model #:512-P3-N873-AR
Item #:N82E16814130376
Return Policy:Limited Non-Refundable 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
Mail-in Rebate
$204.99 -$15.00 Instant $189.99
Update SAMSUNG Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal Floppy Drive Windows 98SE/ ME/ 2000/ XP - OEM
Model #:SFD321B/LBL1
Item #:N82E16821103203
Return Policy:Limited 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
$7.49 $7.49
Update Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Model #:ST3250410AS
Item #:N82E16822148262
Return Policy:Limited 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
$54.99 $54.99
Update Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 - Retail
Model #:BX80570E8400
Item #:N82E16819115037
Return Policy:Processors (CPUs) Return Policy
In Stock
$164.99 $164.99
Update Microsoft ZG7-00025 Black PS/2 Wired Standard Desktop 500 Mouse Included - Retail
Model #:ZG7-00025
Item #:N82E16823109046
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$24.99 $24.99
Update COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW Black Aluminum Bezel , SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Model #:CAC-T05-UW
Item #:N82E16811119068
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$54.99 $54.99
Update PC Power & Cooling S61EPS 610W Continuous @ 40°C EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
Model #:S61EPS
Item #:N82E16817703005
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
Mail-in Rebate
$199.99 -$90.00 Instant $109.99
Update ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler - Retail
Model #:ACFZ7-PRO
Item #:N82E16835186134
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$36.99 -$10.00 Instant $26.99
Update LG W2452T-TF Black 24" 2ms(GTG) Widescreen LCD Monitor - Retail
Model #:W2452T-TF
Item #:N82E16824005113
Return Policy:LCD Limited Non-Refundable 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
$399.99 -$30.00 Instant $369.99
Update Klipsch Promedia GMX A-2.1 78 watts 2.1 Speaker - Retail
Model #:GMX A-2.1
Item #:N82E16836119105
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
Out Of Stock
Auto-Notify
$179.99 $179.99
Update LG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model GH22NS30 - OEM
Model #:GH22NS30
Item #:N82E16827136152
Return Policy:Limited 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
$23.99 $23.99
Update Kingston HyperX 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model KHX8500D2K2/2GNR - Retail
Model #:KHX8500D2K2/2GNR
Item #:N82E16820104044
Return Policy:Memory (Modules, USB) Return Policy
In Stock
$42.99 $42.99
Update Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail
Model #:70SB073A00000
Item #:N82E16829102006
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$90.99 -$5.00 Instant $85.99
Subtotal: $1,457.36
[EDIT] I see I forgot the OS.
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Eagl you say that a floppy drive is included for easy BIOS updates. Why not simply use the new BIOS update that works while Windows is loaded? Seems like it would be easier, or is that a Biostar thing to be able to update like that? I normally don't mess with BIOS so I am unsure which is easier or which is better.
:salute
X
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Eagl you say that a floppy drive is included for easy BIOS updates. Why not simply use the new BIOS update that works while Windows is loaded? Seems like it would be easier, or is that a Biostar thing to be able to update like that? I normally don't mess with BIOS so I am unsure which is easier or which is better.
:salute
X
I've never used the Windows method but IIRC there's a few more steps in the process, plus, I'm not really comfortable letting Windows control such a critical update.
Floppy is also easier than CD-ROM as you don't have to burn an iso image.
The floppy's not required. I just think it makes things easier and for $7.50 why not?
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I wouldn't be too worried about bios updates. You most likely will never need one unless you get very unlucky with the motherboard model.
I've had to update the bios only once (and I mean have to, not that I havent done it for nothing previously) and that was because the motherboard was in reality outdated for the cpu I was using. I.e. I wouldn't need to flash it unless I was using dated crappy hardware to begin with.
Now there are some boards that have buggy bioses from the factory - which falls in the unlucky category.
Oh and I'd definately buy Intel not AMD.
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I've never used the Windows method but IIRC there's a few more steps in the process, plus, I'm not really comfortable letting Windows control such a critical update.
Floppy is also easier than CD-ROM as you don't have to burn an iso image.
The floppy's not required. I just think it makes things easier and for $7.50 why not?
I haven't used a floppy to flash a BIOS since circa 2002 on my cheap FIC brand board. In 2003 I bought the P4S8X and Asus included their AsusUpdate software that you can download and update your BIOS through window.s I haven't used a floppy drive since then to flash my Bios. It couldn't be easier. Download the bios file, open the program, select the bios file, hit flash, takes 30 seconds and its done.
I absolutely hate floppy drives. They always seem to fail or go bad just from sitting there (for me at least). Disks are also not very durable over time. I keep 4 floppy drives in my graveyard for when I need to install RAID drivers on a machine. I keep 4 because I never know which one is going to work. If I need one in Windows, I bought a used Sony USB one from the University I used to go to for $3, it's been the most reliable one (4 years) I've every owned.
On a side note on Bald's build. I've change my mind and agree the 8400/8500 is a better CPU option (unless your profession is dependent on PS and movie making). I also got a Newegg email that said that the PC Power Cooling PSU is now $69.99 after rebate (which is so hard to pass up, single rail at 40+ amps). Also an Acer 24" LCD for $299.99 in the email as well.
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I would not touch and AMD CPU with a ten foot pole at the moment. The fastest CPU they have is still slower than mid-range CPU's from Intel, and the Intel CPU's will overclock like crazy. The Intel CPU will also run cooler than AMD CPU as a result of using less power.
Unless you are heavily vested in audio/video editing (Adobe Premier Pro, Sony Vegas Pro, or any number of high end audio tools), you really will be better off with a dual-core CPU. More bang for the buck as it were.
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Intel is the best for gaming by far. The E8500(Duo core) is used by a lot of gamers for around $200 and can easily be overclocked in the mid 3's(G). Priced nicely
Death
Have mine clocked to 3.8 ghz. May take it to 4.0 for amusement purposes only.
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WTG Getback! As for the AMD Skuzzy no problems runs real nice. Overclocked to 3.0g and I understand how good Intel is.
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That Antec 900 is a very nice case for the bucks. I particularly like the top on/off switch. Also it has a ton of cooling fans.
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:aok
Start with Intel E8500. I really like my abit board but there are a bunch out there. And you can't go wrong with a PC Power and Cooling power supply.
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I run Antec 900 and its a good case. If I were to do it all over again I would spend a little bit more and get a bigger case for this reason. The new video cards are huge and if you decide to go liquid cooled the 900 is a little tight.
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Thanks everyone for the good info and suggestions. I've got a bit of reading to do, but now you've helped me narrow down my focus. :salute
I Photoshop and do some movie making just as pastime, so I'll skip the quad-core in favor of dual-core (bang for the buck thing). I've also got a 9x12 Wacom Intuos 2 tablet for my PS enjoyment.
I don't want to re-use much (if anything) of my current system, as I'll probably give it to someone in my family. I'm impressed at what you guys found (including monitor) for $1500.
After I figure it all out and get the system built, I'll report back with the results.
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Thanks everyone for the good info and suggestions. I've got a bit of reading to do, but now you've helped me narrow down my focus. :salute
I Photoshop and do some movie making just as pastime, so I'll skip the quad-core in favor of dual-core (bang for the buck thing). I've also got a 9x12 Wacom Intuos 2 tablet for my PS enjoyment.
I don't want to re-use much (if anything) of my current system, as I'll probably give it to someone in my family. I'm impressed at what you guys found (including monitor) for $1500.
After I figure it all out and get the system built, I'll report back with the results.
I tell ya Imadot that Fulmar and Baldegle can post a system in short order and a very detailed one. WTG guys.
Good luck with the build Imadot. Keep us posted.
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ImADot, I would suggest that you post your final parts selection here one last time for critique before pushing the buy button but it's up to you.
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IMADOT hold on. Aces High will work great on a quad core! Quad is supposed to be wave of the future. Unless you are playing games like crysis u may want to choose quad core. Just a suggestion. 2 years from now you may want to do movies, video streaming and 3d graphics. It sounds like you are building a computer for the long run. I am not suggesting that this is your answer. Just a thought.
If you want a computer for tomorrow with no upgrades quad core may be the way to go(some experts are saying this). With the price of the Q6660 and the Q8200 selling under $200(Thanks to AMD), it would not be a bad choice. 4 cores will scale about 20% higher than duo cores but in gaming duo cores perform up to 25% better. There are some categories that the quad cores out perform duo and some that duo will outperform quad. These quad cores are not brand new, they are proven to be nice processors.
GL
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IMADOT hold on. Aces High will work great on a quad core! Quad is supposed to be wave of the future. Unless you are playing games like crysis u may want to choose quad core. Just a suggestion. 2 years from now you may want to do movies, video streaming and 3d graphics. It sounds like you are building a computer for the long run. I am not suggesting that this is your answer. Just a thought.
If you want a computer for tomorrow with no upgrades quad core may be the way to go(some experts are saying this). With the price of the Q6660 and the Q8200 selling under $200(Thanks to AMD), it would not be a bad choice. 4 cores will scale about 20% higher than duo cores but in gaming duo cores perform up to 25% better. There are some categories that the quad cores out perform duo and some that duo will outperform quad. These quad cores are not brand new, they are proven to be nice processors.
GL
In two years he'll already get a whole new computer with the latest bells and whistles. Besides upgrade to quad is just slapping in a new CPU and that's it.
I have 5 computers in the house and every two years I dump one to friends/parents and get a new gaming box.
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There are only a handful of applications which can make use of a quad core CPU. Those applications still run better on a faster dual core CPU in most circumstances.
A quad core generates more heat as it uses more power.
There is just no good reason today, or tomorrow, to use a quad core CPU. The architecture of the current computer systems, with single run memory buses, is a huge bottleneck to quad core CPU's. Until that architecture changes, it is just a waste of money to buy a quad core CPU unless you are doing some very specific high end video and audio editing with some very specific software.
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Dot the only thing I can add at this point is to at least comparison shop at www.mwave.com.
They have an "assemble and test" option for 9$. They will take the Motherboard, mount the cpu, & cooler, install the memory, and run it to make sure it all works. Then repack it and send it on to you ready to drop into a case.
This makes building a new system SO easy, and gives you tons of peace of mind. Cause you KNOW it was working.
(So if there is a problem you know to look elsewhere).
Also I've checked a couple of times and while Newegg may have lower prices on 1 or 2 things their higher shipping ended up costing more in the long run.
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Dot the only thing I can add at this point is to at least comparison shop at www.mwave.com.
They have an "assemble and test" option for 9$. They will take the Motherboard, mount the cpu, & cooler, install the memory, and run it to make sure it all works. Then repack it and send it on to you ready to drop into a case.
This makes building a new system SO easy, and gives you tons of peace of mind. Cause you KNOW it was working.
(So if there is a problem you know to look elsewhere).
Also I've checked a couple of times and while Newegg may have lower prices on 1 or 2 things their higher shipping ended up costing more in the long run.
Here they take it a step further and ship it back fully assembled and working for about the same money.
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Have mine clocked to 3.8 ghz. May take it to 4.0 for amusement purposes only.
Go on. You can do it (http://cdn.purevolume.com/cdnImages/crop_85x58/Listener-374823-Devil.gif)
tickticktickticktick
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Skuzzy... You the man!!!! You are absoultely correct. I have been reading a lot about the quads but you never know one may pick up on doing things a quad may support better ...all I was saying and if a person was not a big time gamer quads are not all bad. My quad runs 30 deg. Aces High runs no problem for me(Actually runs perfect). No lag.. no screen stutter.. Nothing.Thanks. MrRip we all don't have 5 computers at home...LOL... wish I did. The quad core did bench much better in many categories like I said and lower in others.
We shouldn’t forget that most upcoming applications and games are being designed with multi-threading in mind. That is why Core 2 Quad may be a more promising solution even if used in its nominal mode.
The overclocking potential of the Core 2 Quad Q6600 (and beyond) processor based on the new G0 core stepping is quite sufficient to help it compete successfully in almost any applications.
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Here is a quote from a New game coming out soon on testing:
These results are as clear cut as they can be; the Intel Core 2 Quad QX6700 with all four cores enabled provides the best gameplay experience. We found Supreme Commander playable at 1600x1200 with 16X AF and all in-game settings at their highest levels with quad-core. Anisotropic filtering overall makes little visual quality difference in this game. The only image quality improvements with AF were when we were zoomed all the way in. Some terrain was sharper as you looked toward the top of your screen. However, you do not play this game all the way zoomed in. In this game you are zooming in and out frequently with most of your time is spent zoomed out where AF makes no impact at all. AF does not cause a performance hit however so you can leave it enabled without worrying about it bringing down your framerates.
When we disabled two of the cores and were left with a dual-core CPU we found performance to suffer greatly. We had to lower the resolution to 1280x1204 and lower most quality settings. We had to turn the fidelity down to “medium” which decreased the rendering quality of the entire game. We noticed that the textures looked less detailed, the objects and meshes were less detailed and there was less geometry. We also had to turn off shadow fidelity which meant no shadows were cast from any object or unit. Texture detail and level of detail also had to be decreased to their lowest settings which reduced texture detail further and we experienced less detail as we zoomed out of the map.
The single-core performance was simply dismal and unplayable, period. We have the game set at the absolute lowest settings possible, 1027x768 with everything as low as it will go in the graphics menu of the game, yet, it is still unplayable. 1024x768 is the lowest resolution supported in the game. We are averaging a pitiful 10 FPS. If you look at the graph the single-core performance (red line) is mostly between 5 and 10 FPS, this is entirely unplayable in Supreme Commander.
There are many games planned to be released in the next year that duo and quad cores will be neccesary. Single coes will not hack it. With the edition of SLI and higher fsb speeds it seems the "bottleneck" thing some talk about is gone.
All I am saying is that if you plan to build a new computer, the talk is quad may be the way to go if you plan on having it for a while. Some of us cannot afford to upgrade to a quad processor or build a new computer in 1 to 2 years. Technology will change and in 2 years and a simple upgrade on processor may mean a new motherboard and upgrades in hardware. The developers of the newer games(due out in the next year) are saying the games are performing better with quad cores. There is not much information to look at but it seems they are definitely testing and it looks good. Forget the bottleneck.
The big thing some of the testers are writing up is the cost have gone down so drammatically, it is definitely worth going quad. The tests do show duo cores are 30% faster in current games but the future will tell.
Now I posted the Intel quad info. The AMD quads are getting very nice reviews(AMD fan!)
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Disabling two cores of a quad core CPU and leaving it at the same clock rate is simply not comparing apples to apples.
Let's see. Spend $190 for a dual core CPU or spend $540 for a quad core to get 10% more performance. Hmmmm. AMD does not have a CPU that can come close to the performance of either one of those CPU's.
The dual core E8500 Intel CPU stomps all over the quad core 9850 Phenom in terms of raw performance.
I do agree with one thing. If you are hell bent to use AMD, then you might as well use the Phenom CPU.
These predictions about needing a quad core CPU is ignorant. As long as the memory bus restricts access to one CPU at a time, there is little to gain by using a quad core CPU versus a faster dual core CPU. If you want to believe that marketing rhetoric, go for it. Nothing to stop you from choosing to do so.
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I sure don't know as much as Skuzzy or some others. I will tell you that e8500 is amazing. I love mine.
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Skuzzy, the quads are close to $200( Q6600 and 8850 AMD 9850 and 9950) and it looks like they are testing them in beta versions of new games. I do believe it is marketing rhetoric. Since AMD introduced quad cores Intels have dropped in price. The performance vs. the original price was definitely there in duo cores and Intel wanted to maintain the marketshare and dropped prices on quads. Now it seems that the trade off on the Q8850 with price and performance is definitely a factor in ones choice.
Just wanted to add what I have been reading. Its cool stuff and I cannot wait to see what happens in the next year in technology and see if AMD can get back in the game(doubtful)
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The AMD vs Intel VS Dual VS Quad , to me is all what one preferences....... I am required to use INTEL stuff at work and on my laptop, but I choose to use AMD on every home PC ( currently 5 to 6 ) and people argue INTEL is cooler, Intel is more powerful......how more powerful is an Intel running 2.8 ghz than my AMD 3.2 ghz? the enduser / regular home user will never know the difference.......it is all preference......
I have a perfectly fine AMD X2 6400 running at 3.21 ghz stock, and under full load is 37 degree c with factory heatsink and fan in my Antec900 case. ( artic5 silver )
I agree, AMD hs always performed better in video, audio and multimedia than Intel.......Intel has held a slight edge in Office business program usage........
edit: The MAIN THING! is to research and make sure everything you order or want, works efficiently well together in the pc case......
A Good Power Supply and WELL Ventilated Case is essential items.......
as for the above post......I would pick Visiontek or ASUS over other Ati card makers, because of warranty......Visiontek is Lifetime ASUS is 3 yrs.... research all the warrantys available on the product choices......
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True gamers and techs look at the facts. The facts do hold true Intel has a big lead in cpu's no doubt about it but I always had great support with AMD, good performance and after reading a lot about the new technology, I felt comfortable with the 9850. It has been flawless and the write-ups were decent. It could be advertising propaganda but it seems AMD may be back in the race soon.
Intels use less power and do run cooler. I never implied AMD is better than Intel. When AMD came out with the NEW quads, they were priced right and performance/price helped my decision. Intel lowered their prices with the introduction of the new Phenoms. To me this was ripping off the entire computer world as I suppose most would have. AMD has always been priced for "JOE THE PLUMBER"... lol
Most of the people who support the duo core technology look to the present and not the future. Unless I am playing a cpu/graphic intensive game made today like Crysis, the performance gain was not neccesary for me. It seems again that it is the right time to move into this technology seeing 3d graphic intensive games will be the next wave. I probably can download a movie and play aces high with no gaming performance loss. Remember, AH is not Crysis. And 1 more note: I have not even looked at Windows 7. Does anybody have any information on quads being better with the Microsofts new operating system around the corner. Maybe there is no direct answer to this but I would think Microsoft is programming and planning with new technology around the corner. This would be great information for computer builders helping them in their choices.
The micro-archetecture in the AMD Pheonom processors is quite different than Intel and hopefully the next releases will put AMD back up there! Yes, quad core is not necessary right now, the duos out perform the quads but the performance gain seemed minimal as far as my usage.
Im with ya on this one Tequila!
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OHHH Tequila, I bought 2 3870's and crossfred em. Nothing but problems so I eexc's for a 4870 x 2 and nothing but problems. It wasn't me it was many many users as I researched forums. The 2 3870's benchmarked higher than the 4870 x 2.Maybe they fixed a lot of issues in the last 2 months but I brought back my card and went Nvidea GTX280. What a card. I would recommend it although the 4870 x 2 outperforms the GTX280/ Just too many user problems with the new ATI cards wheather they were visiontec or diamond or any other. BTW, Visiontec does not have great support. AARON their engineer was supposed to get back with me two times and never did. He was unaware of the heat/bios/driver issues that were present at the time the cards made the shelf. There were litterally hundreds of posts in multiple forums about many issues.
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Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor $164.99 No Hyper-Threading Support / FSB 1333
VS
AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Windsor 3.0GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM2 89W Dual-Core Processor $84.00 Hyper Transports 2000MHz
or
Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor $179.99 No Hyper-Threading Support / FSB 1333
VS
AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+ Windsor 3.2GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM2 125W Dual-Core Processor $119.00 Hyper Transports 2000MHz
INTEL PROCESSORS - Multimedia Instruction MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSE4, EM64T
AMD PROCESSORS - Multimedia Instruction MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, 3DNOW! Professional
please explain to me what the difference is? they all are near the same processor speed as in ghz! only the AMD use very slightly more wattage which theroectically makes them run hotter, although keeping things running cool is easily overcome by proper installation and cooling fans and good cases....
so one cannot really compare the 2 different makes because you are comparing Apples to Oranges and not TRUE apples to apples
Intel has their way of how they get from A to Z and AMD has their "different way" of getting from A to Z.......so really any testing software being used to gather performance data, is going to favor the processor type that the code writer or program producer likes....just like any natural humanoid PRocessor type fanboi would do......
it is all irrelavent.......pick what you prefer....
drdeathx, I am an Ati / AMD FanBoi :D I have no problems with my ASUS EAH3870 512 meg DDR4 vidcard
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I have used AMD since I got my own computer, only 3 years or so now. However I have never had troubles with them, and they run games great.
Also, people say AMD uses more power, how much does Intel use? My current Athlon X2 (not to be confused with Athlon 64 X2), 2.5GHz dual runs at 40 Watts, when I look at Intel I always see higher Wattage. Am I looking at the wrong thing, or is there another number?
Also TC, I don't know anything about the E8400, but my guess is the L2 Cache is a bit larger than the AMD 64 X2.
I can see the E8500 has an L2 Cache that is 4MB larger than the AMD.
---Also a Side-note for anyone that thinks about getting an AMD, All Brisbane sensors are broken, so if possible get a different model.---
:salute
X
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Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor $164.99 No Hyper-Threading Support / FSB 1333
VS
AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Windsor 3.0GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM2 89W Dual-Core Processor $84.00 Hyper Transports 2000MHz
or
Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor $179.99 No Hyper-Threading Support / FSB 1333
VS
AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+ Windsor 3.2GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM2 125W Dual-Core Processor $119.00 Hyper Transports 2000MHz
INTEL PROCESSORS - Multimedia Instruction MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSE4, EM64T
AMD PROCESSORS - Multimedia Instruction MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, 3DNOW! Professional
please explain to me what the difference is? they all are near the same processor speed as in ghz! only the AMD use very slightly more wattage which theroectically makes them run hotter, although keeping things running cool is easily overcome by proper installation and cooling fans and good cases....
so one cannot really compare the 2 different makes because you are comparing Apples to Oranges and not TRUE apples to apples
Intel has their way of how they get from A to Z and AMD has their "different way" of getting from A to Z.......so really any testing software being used to gather performance data, is going to favor the processor type that the code writer or program producer likes....just like any natural humanoid PRocessor type fanboi would do......
it is all irrelavent.......pick what you prefer....
drdeathx, I am an Ati / AMD FanBoi :D I have no problems with my ASUS EAH3870 512 meg DDR4 vidcard
You can bump the E8400 to 3.8 Ghz with a setting change in bios. Something the AMD won't do.
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I have used AMD since I got my own computer, only 3 years or so now. However I have never had troubles with them, and they run games great.
Also, people say AMD uses more power, how much does Intel use? My current Athlon X2 (not to be confused with Athlon 64 X2), 2.5GHz dual runs at 40 Watts, when I look at Intel I always see higher Wattage. Am I looking at the wrong thing, or is there another number?
Also TC, I don't know anything about the E8400, but my guess is the L2 Cache is a bit larger than the AMD 64 X2.
I can see the E8500 has an L2 Cache that is 4MB larger than the AMD.
---Also a Side-note for anyone that thinks about getting an AMD, All Brisbane sensors are broken, so if possible get a different model.---
:salute
X
Hmm how many years old is your cpu? Because AMD hasn't produced anything but 64-bit cpu's for several years now.
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Hmm how many years old is your cpu? Because AMD hasn't produced anything but 64-bit cpu's for several years now.
Rather new, released this year. Bought it about 2 weeks ago, when my other CPU decided to die.
Specs on 'AMD Athlon X2 4850e'
Model: Athlon X2 4850e
Stepping: G2
Frequency: 2500 MHz
Cache L2: 2 x 512 KB
HT: 1000 MHz
Multi: 12.5x
Voltage: 1.15 - 1.25 V
TDP: 45 W
Socket: AM2
Release Date: March 5, 2008
Part Number: ADH4850IAA5DO
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Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor $179.99 No Hyper-Threading Support / FSB 1333
VS
AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+ Windsor 3.2GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM2 125W Dual-Core Processor $119.00 Hyper Transports 2000MHz
INTEL PROCESSORS - Multimedia Instruction MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSE4, EM64T
AMD PROCESSORS - Multimedia Instruction MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, 3DNOW! Professional
please explain to me what the difference is? they all are near the same processor speed as in ghz! only the AMD use very slightly more wattage which theroectically makes them run hotter, although keeping things running cool is easily overcome by proper installation and cooling fans and good cases....
so one cannot really compare the 2 different makes because you are comparing Apples to Oranges and not TRUE apples to apples
Intel has their way of how they get from A to Z and AMD has their "different way" of getting from A to Z.......so really any testing software being used to gather performance data, is going to favor the processor type that the code writer or program producer likes....just like any natural humanoid PRocessor type fanboi would do......
it is all irrelavent.......pick what you prefer....
drdeathx, I am an Ati / AMD FanBoi :D I have no problems with my ASUS EAH3870 512 meg DDR4 vidcard
Only a matter of time before fanbois came marching into this thread.
Oops...
Tom's Hardware - Benchmark Comparing E8500 and X2 6400+ (http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/cpu-charts-2008-q1-2008/compare,384.html?prod%5B1268%5D=on&prod%5B1253%5D=on)
The only thing that keeps AMD alive is their drastic pricing on their CPUs. They can't do it forever. If you want to run the numbers across dozens of applications both games, video, audio, modeling etc. Tomshardware charts is where you should start.
Ford vs Chevy anyone?
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Rather new, released this year. Bought it about 2 weeks ago, when my other CPU decided to die.
Specs on 'AMD Athlon X2 4850e'
Model: Athlon X2 4850e
Stepping: G2
Frequency: 2500 MHz
Cache L2: 2 x 512 KB
HT: 1000 MHz
Multi: 12.5x
Voltage: 1.15 - 1.25 V
TDP: 45 W
Socket: AM2
Release Date: March 5, 2008
Part Number: ADH4850IAA5DO
Ah right your cpu is just a lower TDP version of the X2 64.
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Ah right your cpu is just a lower TDP version of the X2 64.
Yea, it's AMD power-saving CPU line. Quite nice actually. Runs the same as the 64 X2's, for the price.
Gone through Athlon single core 2.2GHz 3500+, Athlon 64 X2 2.3GHz 4400+, and now Athlon X2 2.5GHz 4850e.
All of which ran really well, always kept a frame rate in AH of 45 or more, always used 1024 textures.
X
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Ford vs Chevy anyone?
DODGE :devil
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Tequila, Ran fine with 1 512 3870 seems problems when crossfired and the 4870 x 2 were working with only 1 gpu
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for what it is worth ( very little ) I built my new PC because of the availability of using both the AM2+ and the AM2 processors:
ASUS M3A32-MVP Deluxe/WiFi AM2+/AM2 AMD 790FX ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
* CPU Type: Phenom FX / Phenom / Athlon 64 FX / Athlon 64 X2
* FSB: 2600MHz Hyper Transport (5200 MT/s)
* South Bridge: AMD SB600
* Number of Memory Slots: 4×240pin
* Memory Standard: DDR2 1066
* Maximum Memory Supported: 8GB
* Dual Channel Supported: Yes
* PCI Express 2.0 x16: 4 x PCIe x16 with ATI CrossFireX support, @ dual x16; tripple x16 / x8 / x8; or quad x8 modes
* Model #: M3A32-MVPDeluxe/WiFi
while I truely know INTEL does hold the upperhand currently......... I find it is really useless to continue to see people thrash about which is better........ anything starting with an old AMD AthlonXP 2800+ with a 500watt PSU and 1 gig ram PC3200 and an old Ati 9800 Pro 128 meg AGP card will play Aces High in 1024 x768 / or 1280 x 1024 with High Res Textures preloaded and damn near play at max resolution on most LCD screens ( 60 to 75 fps ) running steady......dropping to high 40s/low 50s during scenarios or humongous furballs/smoke/fire 30+ cons
Yes TODAY's E8500 ( this year 2008 ) is by far more powerful than 2 year old AMD Athlon64 X2 6400....which was at the time being compared to I think the E6600 / E6650 / E6700 / E6750 core 2 duo and equivlent type INTEL chips.....
as for overclocking, MrRipley...my MB will allow me unworldly options on overclocking it is unreal....... I can push this AMD X2 6400 to 3.8 on stock heatsink/fan..(mainly due to my Antec900 case's EXCELLENT cooling capability)...and it can even hit 4.15 ghz ( if you don't think so, research it ) if I want to go the water cooling route.......yes with most of it in the BIOS settings...I can easily overclock my memory nearly the same manner....but why would anyone need to do this, when like I mentioned above an old 2.0 ghz single core athlonXP2800 handled the game nearly as well
I must apologize to ImaDot, sorry for highjacking your Thread, Sir......
I knew if I started running with the AMD vs INTEL that I would get people to come a runnin' ..... I was bored......just felt like typing a bunch of useless dribble.......
this is why I keep saying it is user preference.......... sorry for the rambling
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Nice Tequila.. I think we are saying Intel makes a better processor(E8500 and 6660) just saying AMD is not bad! Your MB is an excellent one too. The FSB makes phenoms work nicely and if you research the micro-architecture its not bad for AMD's first try. I thnk this will take them to the next step. I used that MB and switched to MSI K9A2 and The Asus oc'd a bit better.
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170 really an outdated processor for today applications.
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as for overclocking, MrRipley...my MB will allow me unworldly options on overclocking it is unreal....... I can push this AMD X2 6400 to 3.8 on stock heatsink/fan..
There are two big differences. With AMD there's no guarantee whatsoever that your mobo/cpu combination will overclock even one bit where on Intel it's almost a no brainer. Second big point is that the AMD pushed to 3.8Ghz will probably just match E8500 at stock clock - E8500 running 3.8 blows the oc AMD away.
I used to be AMD only but now I switched to Intel for a reason.
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There are two big differences. With AMD there's no guarantee whatsoever that your mobo/cpu combination will overclock even one bit where on Intel it's almost a no brainer. Second big point is that the AMD pushed to 3.8Ghz will probably just match E8500 at stock clock - E8500 running 3.8 blows the oc AMD away.
I used to be AMD only but now I switched to Intel for a reason.
My, and we've heard this soooooo many times, is clocked at 3.8 and it screams. I think under test it only reaches 53c. Most of the time while gaming it only reaches into the 40s.
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Ancient news rip