Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: justguess on February 22, 2008, 08:02:52 PM
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I'm a bit perplexed as to why the sudden shift to axis by numerous formerly allied players?
if this continues JG54 will be forced to switch to the allied side or eschew the AvA for the sake of balance.
these goings on demonstrate very poor form on the part of the subject players and I wish you players who are in allied squads please remain on the allied team.
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Its because they wanna be on the winning team this time. Axis would have won all five rounds last war if it wasnt for the midnight milkers. I would log off at 1 or 2am, go to sleep wake up at 8am and find that all the bases that we took when there were 40ish people on are gone and we have all our townless bases gone.
With our little squad trifecta we cant loose.
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Originally posted by justguess
I'm a bit perplexed as to why the sudden shift to axis by numerous formerly allied players?
if this continues JG54 will be forced to switch to the allied side or eschew the AvA for the sake of balance.
these goings on demonstrate very poor form on the part of the subject players and I wish you players who are in allied squads please remain on the allied team.
I shall do as you wish and remain allied. Looking forward to our next meeting.
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I switched because I was allied last round and wanted to fly axis planes this round...ill probablly switch again next war.
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I'm not switching till you was your liederhossen.
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Give us back the F4F and the A20 and they will come running to Allied side in droves :lol
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No rules saying you have to stay a specific side. You want to fly axis, fly axis, want to fly allies, fly allies...
Its their $15, so they play whichever side they choose...
As for myself, and my Tomcatters, we are staying Allied!!
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Originally posted by Odee
Give us back the F4F and the A20 and they will come running to Allied side in droves :lol
The F4F was in the list when it started. Why is it gone?
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Originally posted by Odee
Give us back the F4F and the A20 and they will come running to Allied side in droves :lol
Sadly...that is true. I still don't believe the concept of the AvA is being grasped by the new faces. It's not about having uber rides and pwning all before you...it's about reliving a point in history. The Spit and huri even with only 303s is more than capable of downing any Luftwaffe aircraft in this setup...it just takes careful accuracy.
Get your convergence right and those 303's are like laserbeams.
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Originally posted by Tango
The F4F was in the list when it started. Why is it gone?
just like the axis C202 is gone. to uber.
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The winning side for this round will be whoever uses their planes with the right tactics....
Its that simple...
Except for 110s cannons, both sides have pretty even plane sets.
The Hurricane and Spitfires .303s are equal to the 109s. Even though the 109s have cannons, its limited ammo amount balances for itself against the Spit/Hurri.
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Originally posted by VansCrew1
just like the axis C202 is gone. to uber.
I wouldn't say the F4F is uber.
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Originally posted by Tango
I wouldn't say the F4F is uber.
Try and shoot it down... I swear it has titanium armor.
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Originally posted by Tango
I wouldn't say the F4F is uber.
You can tell he flys allied. The six .50 cals plus its super armor makes it uber in this setup. That it it being a midwar plane in an early war setup.
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Originally posted by Larry
You can tell he flys allied. The six .50 cals plus its super armor makes it uber in this setup. That it it being a midwar plane in an early war setup.
LOL
How is it a mid war plane when the Navy had them in 1939?
How is it a mid war plane when the French government ordered them [of course they surrendered before getting them]?
Maybe you should read up some history books.
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Originally posted by Tango
LOL
How is it a mid war plane when the Navy had them in 1939?
How is it a mid war plane when the French government ordered them [of course they surrendered before getting them]?
Maybe you should read up some history books.
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/ac-usn22/f-types/f4f.htm (http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/ac-usn22/f-types/f4f.htm)
The F4F-3 was a 1939 plane. The F4F-4 (the Wildcat we have) wasn't operational until early 1942. Maybe not quite mid war, but still later than the rest of the planes in the setup.
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Originally posted by 68Dougal
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/ac-usn22/f-types/f4f.htm (http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/ac-usn22/f-types/f4f.htm)
The F4F-3 was a 1939 plane. The F4F-4 (the Wildcat we have) wasn't operational until early 1942. Maybe not quite mid war, but still later than the rest of the planes in the setup.
Think someone just got pwned. Anyhow, trying to down a F4F-4 in this EW setup is futile... The thing is made of bulletproof armor! Even well placed 20mm rounds will still have it flying around like armored egg with an AK-47 :O .
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Yep we got the F4F-4 mid '42.
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Originally posted by Larry
Yep we got the F4F-4 mid '42.
And what was the difference between the two models? The ealier version was faster and more nimble than the one we have in game.
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An uber F4F-4. Its almost like we are running out of things to argue about.
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In an early war setup the F4F is uber.
tango the f4f3 was only like 12 mph faster but it could only cary 4 .50s.
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Originally posted by Larry
In an early war setup the F4F is uber.
tango the f4f3 was only like 12 mph faster but it could only cary 4 .50s.
Ah yes, it is uber.
Slower than a 109E and 110c4. Can't outclimb a 109E or 110c4. Its only advantage is 2 extra 50s, pilot armor [ which doesn't do any good when you have canon rounds riping off a wing or a tail], and can out turn ONLY the 110.
Yes its uber.
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Do you get it? I guess not. The armor is great, it can take more then twice the cannon rounds then the other planes in the setup. Its 6 .50cals are/were the best loadout in the setup. It doesnt need speed or turning ability. Its shear survivability and armament makes it uber. Just like the Hurri2C in the EWMA. Once f4f was added in the first war thats what 95% of the allies flew.
Iv notived that allies have/had a few non early war planes I guess they were added to "balance" the arena.
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Originally posted by Larry
Its because they wanna be on the winning team this time. Axis would have won all five rounds last war if it wasnt for the midnight milkers. I would log off at 1 or 2am, go to sleep wake up at 8am and find that all the bases that we took when there were 40ish people on are gone and we have all our townless bases gone.
With our little squad trifecta we cant loose.
Larry's right.... But there were the mid-day milkers on Axis so that part he can pretty much eat himself.
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Originally posted by Larry
Do you get it? I guess not. The armor is great, it can take more then twice the cannon rounds then the other planes in the setup. Its 6 .50cals are/were the best loadout in the setup. It doesnt need speed or turning ability. Its shear survivability and armament makes it uber. Just like the Hurri2C in the EWMA. Once f4f was added in the first war thats what 95% of the allies flew.
Iv notived that allies have/had a few non early war planes I guess they were added to "balance" the arena.
The whines are reaching critical mass.
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Originally posted by Odee
Larry's right.... But there were the mid-day milkers on Axis so that part he can pretty much eat himself.
LoL when? Last war allies milked almost every day untill you had to post a picture showing the numbers.
Slash its not whining when its a fact. Last war there were many times that allies had different plane setups.
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You are crying about a plane thats not even in the set up. As it is now the Axis can engage and disengage at will. What is it you need now? Jeeps only for the Allies? wtf dude
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No just disable fight for the allies. They are just slowing down the inevatible.
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lol you got balls saying that TK.....
Now the gloves are coming off!!
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As long as it stops there. Iv warned you before I dont swing that way.
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from what im hearing from your axis friends, ya do, and hard!!!
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Only with sheep!:O
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Originally posted by Larry
In an early war setup the F4F is uber.
tango the f4f3 was only like 12 mph faster but it could only cary 4 .50s.
The F4F-3 was also lighter, more maneuverable and had a longer firing time compared to the F4F-4.
While the F4F-4 was improved to carry 6 .50 caliber machine guns, it carried the same ammo load of the F4F-3 but spread out among the six machine guns, 240 rounds each. Total firing time for the F4F-4 was 20 seconds, compared to the 34 seconds of the F4F-3. The only real thing that made the F4F-4 better than the F4F-3 is that you could store 5 F4F-4s on a carrier where you'd only be able to get 2 F4F-3s to fit due to the F4F-4's folding wings.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Larry
Do you get it? I guess not. The armor is great, it can take more then twice the cannon rounds then the other planes in the setup. Its 6 .50cals are/were the best loadout in the setup. It doesnt need speed or turning ability. Its shear survivability and armament makes it uber. Just like the Hurri2C in the EWMA. Once f4f was added in the first war thats what 95% of the allies flew.
Iv notived that allies have/had a few non early war planes I guess they were added to "balance" the arena.
Quit Luftwhining TK and get back in your tank :)
There will never be a set up in AvA where the LW planes will ever match up. The Allied planes are ALWAYS uber and hide in the ack. Just ask Storch :)
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So your saying that four guns are better then six? Thing is that the F4F should have never been in the setup in the first place. It has 1/3 more hitting power then the earlier version and is two year older then the other one.
BTW tango the F4F-3 was first put in service in late '40 and if I remeber right the F4F-2 got beat out by the Buffalo, but I could be wrong.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Quit Luftwhining TK and get back in your tank :)
There will never be a set up in AvA where the LW planes will ever match up. The Allied planes are ALWAYS uber and hide in the ack. Just ask Storch :)
Dont make me post the picture showing what I do to P38s that mess with my tank! I think eaglepoo is still haveing headachs.
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Originally posted by Larry
BTW tango the F4F-3 was first put in service in late '40 and if I remeber right the F4F-2 got beat out by the Buffalo, but I could be wrong.
So I guess that means your saying the Buffalo was uber as well?
What I find so funny is your afraid of Allied pilots flying a plane that has PILOT armor and 2 extra 50s.
Pilot aromor won't prevent the plane from coming down if Axis canon rounds take off a wing or tail, now will it?
As for the 2 extra 50s, what good are they when most of the time a 109 and 110 pilot can dictate how the fight is to be. The 109 and 110 outrun and outclimb it.
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If I didnt know this was real I would never believe an argument broke out over the "uberness" of the F4F.:rofl
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Originally posted by Grits
If I didnt know this was real I would never believe an argument broke out over the "uberness" of the F4F.:rofl
Its a new class of whine.
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there is more whine in the AVA than the Napa Valley
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Originally posted by Tango
What I find so funny is your afraid of Allied pilots flying a plane that has PILOT armor and 2 extra 50s.
Have you ever flown a 109-E against an F4F? Because...you sound like you haven't. Other than the IL2, the F4F/FM2 is one of the hardest planes to kill in the game.
It is always humorous when the allies have to have the AvA staff hold their hand and provide them with non era aircraft so they can hold their own...then they piously look down on the Axis for pointing that fact out.
Humorous indeed... Or perhaps the word is irony...
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Originally posted by Grits
If I didnt know this was real I would never believe an argument broke out over the "uberness" of the F4F.:rofl
believe it or not the 202 was removed from the planeset because the staffed deemed it uber as well. :rolleyes:
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Well, as you know, they are both very good in their own ways but I dont consider either one uber even in an early war setup because they both have strong flaws as well. The F4F turns good, has a great gun package for early war, but is slow and climbs like a refrigerator full of bowling balls. The C202 is a wonderfully performing plane, climbs outstanding, but its gun package is only rivaled by the Val and Stuka for its wimpyness. Even the 8x .303 package is better than the C202.
Any early war setup that has the 110c and nothing Allied with cannons, its the class of the field if you ask me, which you didnt. :)
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Originally posted by republic
Have you ever flown a 109-E against an F4F? Because...you sound like you haven't. Other than the IL2, the F4F/FM2 is one of the hardest planes to kill in the game.
It is always humorous when the allies have to have the AvA staff hold their hand and provide them with non era aircraft so they can hold their own...then they piously look down on the Axis for pointing that fact out.
Humorous indeed... Or perhaps the word is irony...
I find it humorous that you think the F4F is uber when compared to the 109.
:rofl
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clearly the uber 110 is the uber plane in this set up but the F4F was a good counter for it. its a shame the F4F was removed.
on the other hand the TBM with its rocket batteries remains so go figure.
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Originally posted by Tango
I find it humorous that you think the F4F is uber when compared to the 109.
:rofl
tango I think what you are experiencing is the frustration that comes from fighting people who know what they are doing. the proficiency that the dedicated axis players have in their rides comes from hours upon hours of dedication to the ride and to game. it's hard to beat people who know the strengths and weaknesses of their vehicles.
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Originally posted by Tango
...
As for the 2 extra 50s, what good are they when most of the time a 109 and 110 pilot can dictate how the fight is to be. The 109 and 110 outrun and outclimb it.
Guess you werent around last time when the Allies got the Spit9 and the Axis got the 190A5. With the proper tactics, the Axis did very well, even when the Spit9 outclimbs, outturns, and has very similar speed capabilities. With the proper tactics, its dive capabilities, and good gun package, the F4F is a lethal aircraft.
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**Yawns... scratches butt... reads more of the thread...***
Justguess sezbelieve it or not the 202 was removed from the planeset because the staffed deemed it uber as well.
Always wondered why they did that. P-40 was a good match against it.
Originally posted by republic
Have you ever flown a 109-E against an F4F? Because...you sound like you haven't. Other than the IL2, the F4F/FM2 is one of the hardest planes to kill in the game.
...then they piously look down on the Axis for pointing that fact out.
Humorous indeed... Or perhaps the word is irony...
:rofl :rofl :rofl @ "one of the hardest planes to kill" and "...piously..." whine.
Oh God, Republic, I can't wait to hear you comment on the Spit and Hurri 1's.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
**imagines what the Axis whiner's would say about the Boston if it were in AvA to counter the 110... chuckles then goes back to bed...**
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Originally posted by justguess
tango I think what you are experiencing is the frustration that comes from fighting people who know what they are doing. the proficiency that the dedicated axis players have in their rides comes from hours upon hours of dedication to the ride and to game. it's hard to beat people who know the strengths and weaknesses of their vehicles.
Nope. I have 15 kills and 4 deaths in the P-40B this map. I think I'm holding up pretty good.
I just find it interesting that some think the F4F is uber.
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Originally posted by Tango
Nope. I have 15 kills and 4 deaths in the P-40B this map. I think I'm holding up pretty good.
I just find it interesting that some think the F4F is uber.
Heck Tango, you could fly a paperclip and do that :aok
Great job the other night sir. Was a pleasure to see you at work.
:cool:
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Originally posted by Tango
Nope. I have 15 kills and 4 deaths in the P-40B this map. I think I'm holding up pretty good.
I just find it interesting that some think the F4F is uber.
yup the way you play I believe you. I'm at least three of those 15 kills and they were all you dropping in from pretty high while I was engaged.
that is pretty much an indicator that we might need to work on our playing abilities.
inspite of what I just typed the fights in the arena were really good and I had lots of fun. I'm glad there were equal numbers and I'm glad there was a good allied turn out.
I suspect arlo is back flying as guthrie. he and slash were winged up tightly and bringing it to the axis base unlike the rest of the allied field which tended to hang in the ack.
welcome back arlo, it looks like you knocked the rust off rather quickly.
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Originally posted by justguess
I suspect arlo is back flying as guthrie. he and slash were winged up tightly and bringing it to the axis base unlike the rest of the allied field which tended to hang in the ack.
welcome back arlo, it looks like you knocked the rust off rather quickly.
Tardlo didnt pick a very clever shades name did he? :D
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Originally posted by Odee
Heck Tango, you could fly a paperclip and do that :aok
Great job the other night sir. Was a pleasure to see you at work.
:cool:
Thank you sir. Was a pleasure flying with you as well.
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Originally posted by justguess
yup the way you play I believe you. I'm at least three of those 15 kills and they were all you dropping in from pretty high while I was engaged.
that is pretty much an indicator that we might need to work on our playing abilities.
LOL
Whats that supposed to mean? You want me to get into turn fights with a P-40 agaisnt 109s and Zeros. Get real. I guess your gonna say that Chennault was wrong using those same tactics.
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actually that's exactly what I mean and do!!! did you not pick me while I was turnfighting spits and hurricanes in a 110?
here's my point (I'm going to put it out here again even though I'm sure I will miss again) it is a game and you don't die, you get as many free planes as you prang plus one per month at no extra charge. I know this is difficult for some of us to grasp so it bears repeating YOU DON"T DIE!!!!
get with 1duke1 and ask him for some P40 lessons. he can turn that thing against most anything and win.
dedalos is ok in it as well.
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<----pwns 1Duke1 & Deadalot in the Pee Fortay
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They wont get it because these guys all fly allied, so they dont know how hard it is to take the F4F down, and that even with a snapshot you always take damage from the 6 50s.
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Originally posted by justguess
get with 1duke1 and ask him for some P40 lessons. he can turn that thing against most anything and win.
While those two are legends in their own time when flying the P-40E, I'm not sure the reputation carries over to that pathetic P-40B.
Honestly, if someone can get a P-40B kill against a flying enemy plane, he should be lauded, even if the victim had a pilot wound and an engine out. I count the P-40B to be the most useless death trap in AH2.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Oldman731
While those two are legends in their own time when flying the P-40E, I'm not sure the reputation carries over to that pathetic P-40B.
Honestly, if someone can get a P-40B kill against a flying enemy plane, he should be lauded, even if the victim had a pilot wound and an engine out. I count the P-40B to be the most useless death trap in AH2.
- oldman
What about the C.202?
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OldmanHonestly, if someone can get a P-40B kill against a flying enemy plane, he should be lauded, even if the victim had a pilot wound and an engine out. I count the P-40B to be the most useless death trap in AH2.
Actually I nailed 5 C.202's in one flight and a handfull of A6M's and 109's in the next with the P40B... landed em both. :aok
Unfortunately, the C202 and F4F were both yanked shortly there after so my Italian marks probably no longer count. :cry
Originally posted by Larry
They wont get it because these guys all fly allied, so they dont know how hard it is to take the F4F down, and that even with a snapshot you always take damage from the 6 50s.
Is this as opposed to taking damage from the snapshot and HO 109 and 110's canons? Sorry, if I'm just a little confused about your point, Larry. 1 plane that can go toe-to-toe with those 2 Axis and you have to cry about it?
Well, what if Allies had the Boston? Would that mollify you guys?
Overall? Once the squads started showing up in earnest last night, the fights turned into some pretty fierce and fun furballs between A24 and A25
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The MGFFs one of, if not, the weakest cannons in the game. I must just be me but I have to keep fire on a plane for more then a Ho or snapshot to take parts off. Last war a hurri1 took five, thats one, two, three, four five MGFFs to its left wing and went on flying like nothing happened. When I went allied a few times the first week of the last war I was killing people faster with the hurris guns then I was with the 109/110.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
While those two are legends in their own time when flying the P-40E, I'm not sure the reputation carries over to that pathetic P-40B.
Honestly, if someone can get a P-40B kill against a flying enemy plane, he should be lauded, even if the victim had a pilot wound and an engine out. I count the P-40B to be the most useless death trap in AH2.
- oldman
but you say the same thing about my beloved 190A5 and that is not true.
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Originally posted by Odee
:rofl :rofl :rofl @ "one of the hardest planes to kill" and "...piously..." whine.
Oh God, Republic, I can't wait to hear you comment on the Spit and Hurri 1's.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
**imagines what the Axis whiner's would say about the Boston if it were in AvA to counter the 110... chuckles then goes back to bed...**
If you don't think the F4F is one of the hardest planes to kill in the AH planeset, you've obviously never attempted to shoot one down. During our pacific setups when it's Zeke's vs the F4F it's almost comical how long it takes to bring one down.
Apparently you also misunderstood my post, I'm not whining, I'm saying you acklieds vastly underestimate the power of the F4F. I'm not saying it shouldn't be in the planeset. It was in during the intro of the last war, if the staff want to bring it back, so be it.
The point of my post is to point out the incessant spirit of 'woe is me' that permeiates the Allies currently. The Hurri1 and Spit1 can easily wipe the floor with us if you would all just coordinate.
The 110 is clearly the powerhouse of the setup as far as firepower...but even a marginally skilled allied pilot has the ability to keep out of those lethal gunsites.
All we hear lately are "waa waa no cannons waa waa". Soon you'll have your hispano laserbeams so...just be patient. Fly Axis once and awhile and you'll understand what it is to have to work with your strengths and guard your weaknesses.
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Originally posted by republic
If you don't think the F4F is one of the hardest planes to kill in the AH planeset, you've obviously never attempted to shoot one down. .
I flew the 109E more than I flew the F4F last war. I didn't find the F4F that hard to kill, in fact it's no harder than killing a Hurricane. Just get in close and blast it with you cannons. I even killed two with the MGs only. Of course I'm not one of you uber skilled Jagdgeaschwader types so maybe I didn't know any better.
Allied pilots, we don't have the F4F so get over it and quit whining about it. You wanted a war, well war isn't fair. There are times when the enemy has the advantage. Suck it up and deal with it. Your complaints just feed trolls like this one who'll be whining when the advantage goes the other way. You sound like little girls and you just give this chest thumper more ammo.
Just fly and kill as many of them as you can. For added realisim, dont cry when you die. Jebus it sounds like a slumber party in here.
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Originally posted by Shifty
Allied pilots, we don't have the F4F so get over it and quit whining about it. You wanted a war, well war isn't fair. There are times when the enemy has the advantage. Suck it up and deal with it. Your complaints just feed trolls like this one who'll be whining when the advantage goes the other way. You sound like little girls and you just give this chest thumper more ammo.
Just fly and kill as many of them as you can. For added realisim, dont cry when you die. Jebus it sounds like a slumber party in here.
Hah! Shifty Wisdom.
- oldman
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Edit: No point in bringing the discussion down to an argument of personalities I digress from this thread which is undoubtedly now a lost cause...
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Originally posted by Shifty
Just fly and kill as many of them as you can. For added realisim, dont cry when you die. Jebus it sounds like a slumber party in here.
I've got $5 on Slash to win the pillow fight.
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Originally posted by justguess
actually that's exactly what I mean and do!!! did you not pick me while I was turnfighting spits and hurricanes in a 110?
here's my point (I'm going to put it out here again even though I'm sure I will miss again) it is a game and you don't die, you get as many free planes as you prang plus one per month at no extra charge. I know this is difficult for some of us to grasp so it bears repeating YOU DON"T DIE!!!!
get with 1duke1 and ask him for some P40 lessons. he can turn that thing against most anything and win.
dedalos is ok in it as well.
IF you were on a friendlies tail, YES I would dive in and flame you. Just like you would do if the rolls were reversed.
As for the game part, yes it is a game. Its a WAR game.
The P-40 does turn pretty good until you lose your speed. THEN your nothing but a slow moving target. Not how it was flown in WW2, except maybe for those pilots that didn't make it back alive.
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Originally posted by Tango
The P-40 does turn pretty good until you lose your speed. THEN your nothing but a slow moving target. Not how it was flown in WW2, except maybe for those pilots that didn't make it back alive.
Actually, this is incorrect. I use the ability of the Pee Fortay to get slow, lose E, faster than other planes to force overshoots. The 109s and 190s especially hold E better and because their flaps dont deploy as soon the Pee Fortay (like all the US planes) can throw out the flaps and slam on the brakes. Once you get slow the Pee-Fortay has good stability and decent roll rate at extremely low speed. The key is to learn its limits at full flaps, unlike the Blue planes which can recover, once it does depart with full flaps you are in trouble. At full flaps, only the 109E and maybe the 109F in the German set can turn with it, and then only when its someone in the 109 that REALLY knows that plane.
I do agree that is not an historically accurate way to fly the Pee-Fortay but neither is the way we fly most of the AH planeset.
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Originally posted by Grits
Actually, this is incorrect. I use the ability of the Pee Fortay to get slow, lose E, faster than other planes to force overshoots. The 109s and 190s especially hold E better and because their flaps dont deploy as soon the Pee Fortay (like all the US planes) can throw out the flaps and slam on the brakes. Once you get slow the Pee-Fortay has good stability and decent roll rate at extremely low speed. The key is to learn its limits at full flaps, unlike the Blue planes which can recover, once it does depart with full flaps you are in trouble. At full flaps, only the 109E and maybe the 109F in the German set can turn with it, and then only when its someone in the 109 that REALLY knows that plane.
I do agree that is not an historically accurate way to fly the Pee-Fortay but neither is the way we fly most of the AH planeset.
that assessment is spot on, but grits you left out the best part.
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Originally posted by justguess
that assessment is spot on, but grits you left out the best part.
Is that the part where the 109E can almost out turn the P40 even with its flaps up and the p40s down?
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You guys keep this up and you're gonna end up costing me $14.99 a month again.
Dammit! I'm supposed to be in Re-Hab!
RTR
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Originally posted by Larry
So your saying that four guns are better then six? Thing is that the F4F should have never been in the setup in the first place. It has 1/3 more hitting power then the earlier version and is two year older then the other one.
What I am saying that the 6 guns on the F4F-4 only increases the amount of guns over the F4F-3, not firepower since the ammo load was the same in the F-4 version as it was in the F-3. The F4F-4 also had a decreased firing time, some 14 seconds less than the F4F-3. The F4F-3 could spit out the same amount of lead as the F4F-4 and for a longer period of time. To say the 6 guns on the F4F-4 somehow make it uber is, well, just downright silly.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
What I am saying that the 6 guns on the F4F-4 only increases the amount of guns over the F4F-3, not firepower since the ammo load was the same in the F-4 version as it was in the F-3. The F4F-4 also had a decreased firing time, some 14 seconds less than the F4F-3. The F4F-3 could spit out the same amount of lead as the F4F-4 and for a longer period of time. To say the 6 guns on the F4F-4 somehow make it uber is, well, just downright silly.
ack-ack
You must be smoking something good.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Larry
You must be smoking something good.:rolleyes:
No, just pointing out that the F4F-4's fire power is hardly uber. Just because it has 6 guns doesn't make it a killing machine because it wasn't. It's rugged construction and toughness is what makes the F4F-4 a formidible foe, since it can soak up cannon rounds and damage.
So please, if you think the F4F-4's guns make it uber, please post some type of evidence that supports the claim. Player anecdotes don't count since they're usually based on emotion, not fact.
What's next? Whines about the side arm your virtual pilot carries?
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
What I am saying that the 6 guns on the F4F-4 only increases the amount of guns over the F4F-3, not firepower since the ammo load was the same in the F-4 version as it was in the F-3.
So more guns doesn't equal more firepower, more ammo does?
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Figured I would check the stats and look what I found.....
F4F-4 has 20 Kills of A6M2
A6M2 has 25 Kills of F4F-4
Im the Early War Tour 96
Guess that shoots down how uber the F4F is, unless you guys want to start claiming how uber the Zero is.
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Originally posted by Tango
Figured I would check the stats and look what I found.....
F4F-4 has 20 Kills of A6M2
A6M2 has 25 Kills of F4F-4
Im the Early War Tour 96
Guess that shoots down how uber the F4F is, unless you guys want to start claiming how uber the Zero is.
Tango, I guess you haven't been reading these boards long enough. I can tell you what the response to this post will be. You're farting against thunder, the F4F is gone let it RIP along with this thread.
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Stats mean nothing since you dont know how they were killed. It is the EWMA afterall.
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Originally posted by republic
So more guns doesn't equal more firepower, more ammo does?
Let me clarify my point further, the "lethality" of the F4F-4 did not increase over the F4F-3 after the addition of the 2 extra .50 caliber machine guns. It was a real complaint of those naval pilots that were upgraded to the F-4 series, there was no increase in fire power, ammo load remained the same as the F-3 series in addition to decreased fire time. The 6 guns did not make the F-4 series a killing machine.
Again, you may complain about the toughness of the Wildcat but complaining that somehow it's fire power is uber over planes like the Bf109E/F or the Zeke models is groundless.
ack-ack
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Ack ack thinks that 53 rounds per second is the same firepower of 80 rounds per second. They both may have the same ammo load but 6 .50cals is 1/3 more firepower then 4 of them.
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Originally posted by Shifty
Tango, I guess you haven't been reading these boards long enough. I can tell you what the response to this post will be. You're farting against thunder, the F4F is gone let it RIP along with this thread.
Oh I know its gone. I just can't believe these guys think its an uber plane compared to the ones in there now.
Then when I post some stats, they say we don't know how they were killed. Except that the stats show the Zero has more kills on them than the F4F does on the Zero.
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:rofl
I don't think you get it. None of the axis wanted the plane gone (none that I know of anyhow). I'm all for bringing it back. As I said before in the last war the allies had the F4F...it wasn't an issue. I'd like to see the F4F in here and the C.202 it would be something different. Instead, what we have is a BoB setup with a zeke and a P40...it's boring from both sides.
The Axis firepower advantage is somewhat moot. The 109E has a couple spurts of cannon, then it's 2 machineguns... The 110 has plenty of firepower but can only bring it to bear with assistance from wingmen. If you get shot down in a hurri/spit 1v1 with a 110, either he hoed you, he's exceptionally good, or you just stink.
My posts were simply to attempt to fight the never ending parade of allies who bemoan and over exaggerate the inequalities... It tends to get old.
I bet 10 bux once you have a Spit with deathray Hispanos all whining will cease...well...whining about airframes. Then it'll be whines about...everything else....until we get the 262 then the allies will just leave the arena.
It's the nature of a rolling planeset, sometimes your up, sometimes your down. Welcome to the AvA. :)
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Originally posted by republic
:rofl
I don't think you get it. None of the axis wanted the plane gone (none that I know of anyhow). I'm all for bringing it back. As I said before in the last war the allies had the F4F...it wasn't an issue. I'd like to see the F4F in here and the C.202 it would be something different. Instead, what we have is a BoB setup with a zeke and a P40...it's boring from both sides.
The Axis firepower advantage is somewhat moot. The 109E has a couple spurts of cannon, then it's 2 machineguns... The 110 has plenty of firepower but can only bring it to bear with assistance from wingmen. If you get shot down in a hurri/spit 1v1 with a 110, either he hoed you, he's exceptionally good, or you just stink.
My posts were simply to attempt to fight the never ending parade of allies who bemoan and over exaggerate the inequalities... It tends to get old.
I bet 10 bux once you have a Spit with deathray Hispanos all whining will cease...well...whining about airframes. Then it'll be whines about...everything else....until we get the 262 then the allies will just leave the arena.
It's the nature of a rolling planeset, sometimes your up, sometimes your down. Welcome to the AvA. :)
Every post you make is a whine. You whine about whining , you whine that the Axis have the tougest planeset except for one week. You whine because the Allies don't understand how hard it is to be an Axis superman. You even had a hidden whine about alt monkeys in your supposed Positve AVA thread.
If you look above at your statement... The statement is framed in a whine.
My posts were simply to attempt to fight the never ending parade of allies who bemoan and over exaggerate the inequalities... It tends to get old.[/b]
Above it is a whine about Axis firepower advantage being moot.
Below it you whine about the Spitfires hispanos and how nobody wants to be your 262 fodder.
Republic if you want to stop the whining set the example. You just prime the whine well with whines.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Shifty
I post because I'm unhappy, and I'm unhappy because I post....*fart*
Awww shucks Shifty, I'm starting to think you like me.
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Altering the words of a person because you can't despute them is a sign of defeat.
You're right, I do like you big fella. ;)
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Originally posted by Shifty
Altering the words of a person because you can is a sign of victory.
You're right, I do like you big fella. ;)
New Diaper please!!! This one has a Rash too!!
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Originally posted by Shifty
You whine about whining
So I guess you're whining about whining about whining.
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Originally posted by KONG1
So I guess you're whining about whining about whining.
Oh yeah!
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Originally posted by Shifty
Oh yeah!
:lol :rofl
thus goeth my whine.
:noid
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Originally posted by Tango
Oh I know its gone. I just can't believe these guys think its an uber plane compared to the ones in there now.
Then when I post some stats, they say we don't know how they were killed. Except that the stats show the Zero has more kills on them than the F4F does on the Zero.
Tango since you are clueless Ill give you a few. Have you ever been the the EWMA? Ill assume you havent. Iv been in there and saw a guy vulching another over and over on the runway. I had a good idea that it was his second acount because the guy didnt even try to roll. He just sat on the runway and let the guy kill him. So no I wouldnt take those stats with a gain of sand.
You whine that the F4F-4 a mid 42 isnt uber in a early war where the other fighters are all 1940[b/] is stupid. I dont know what ack ack has been smoking but its 6 .50 cals, how ever limited the ammo is, shreds planes apart. The you whine about us having cannon birds. Well Im sorry that germany and japan had planes with bigger armament then US and brits, but if I had to choose I would rather have six 50s in my 110 other then the crappy cannons. Hell I get more kills with the BBs then I do with the cannons in it.
I really dont like how allieds get mid war planes in an early war setup first the F4F in the first war now the SBD and TBM in this one. Both of which are 1943 planes.
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Originally posted by Larry
I really dont like how allieds get mid war planes in an early war setup first the F4F in the first war now the SBD and TBM in this one. Both of which are 1943 planes. [/B]
Now I think you just dont know what your talking about.
Douglas SBD Dauntless was the U.S. Navy's main dive bomber from mid-1940 until late 1943, when it was supplanted (although not entirely replaced) by the SB2C Helldiver. The SBD was involved in combat from the first day of the Pacific War, as Dauntlesses arriving at Hawaii from USS Enterprise were caught in the Pearl Harbor attack.
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SBD Dauntless Dive Bomber
SBD Dauntless dive bomber (Neg#: D4E-535495)The Douglas SBD Dauntless dive bomber became a mainstay of the Navy's World War II air fleet in the Pacific, with the lowest loss ratio of any U.S. carrier-based aircraft. Douglas delivered a total of 5,936 SBDs and Army Air Forces A-24s between 1940 and the end of production in July 1944.
The Dauntless was developed at the Douglas Northrop facility at El Segundo, Calif., and was based on the Northrop Model 8 attack bomber developed for both the Army and the export market.
The SBD Dauntless featured "Swiss cheese" flaps -- dive brakes punched with 3-inch holes -- so that it could achieve pinpoint accuracy by diving to the target, dropping the bomb and then pulling out of the near-vertical dive.
In addition to the U.S. Navy, Marine Corps and Army Air Forces, the Dauntless served air forces in New Zealand and Mexico.
The first enemy ship sunk by the U.S. Navy in World II is credited to a Dauntless from the USS Enterprise. The diving Dauntless went on to destroy 18 enemy warships, including a battleship and six carriers.
Specifications First flight: May 1, 1940
Wingspan: 41 feet 6 inches
Length: 33 feet
Height: 12 feet 11 inches
Ceiling: 27,100 feet
Range: 1,205 miles
Weight: 9,353 pounds
Power plant: 1,200-horsepower Wright R-1820-60 engine
Speed: 252 mph
Accommodation: Two crew
Armament: 2,250-lb bomb load; two fixed, forward-firing .50-caliber machine guns and one or two flexible, belt-fed .30-caliber machine guns mounted in rear cockpit
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But hey its just history maybe your right.:rofl
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Originally posted by ACB
Know I think you just dont know what your talking about.
Douglas SBD Dauntless was the U.S. Navy's main dive bomber from mid-1940 until late 1943, when it was supplanted (although not entirely replaced) by the SB2C Helldiver. The SBD was involved in combat from the first day of the Pacific War, as Dauntlesses arriving at Hawaii from USS Enterprise were caught in the Pearl Harbor attack.
The SPD-5 was the last version to see significant service from aircraft carriers. 2,965 aircraft were produced between February 1943 and April 1944.
By your token, we should get the 109-K4.
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lol ok. Sorry they havent modeled the earliest version of the SBD for the game. But yeah thats a fair trade off. You should get the K4. I mean what the SBD-5 improved on the 1st model right. What it can go like 300mph faster and carry like way more bombs. LOL
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Wow are people this slow these days?
SBD-5
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See Rule #18
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Dam republic
Rule 18 - No sheep lovin before noon
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FWIW:
From my reading of "The First Team" by Lundstrom, the squadrons hated the F4F-4 vs. the -3. The -4 added the folding wings and extra guns at the cost of considerable added weight and less firing time.
The consensus was that the -3 was strongly prefered.
I suppose the point is that, if given a choice between the -3 or -4, historically the -3 would've been the preferred ride and therefore, supposedly better plane.
I'm not sure that really is relevant to the problem we had/have, but hopefully you found it interesting nonetheless.
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Rule 18!!!!!!!!! What rule 18? Im outta here. Thats just ridiculous. I do what i want with Axis sheep. Your not the boss of me. And im not slow but my Hurri is. :rofl
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ACB= Air Combat Baby??? seems he's always crying about something. 22 post and alot of hot air. hmmmmm guess he'll fit right in!! :aok :aok
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Originally posted by Larry
Tango since you are clueless Ill give you a few. Have you ever been the the EWMA? Ill assume you havent. Iv been in there and saw a guy vulching another over and over on the runway. I had a good idea that it was his second acount because the guy didnt even try to roll. He just sat on the runway and let the guy kill him. So no I wouldnt take those stats with a gain of sand.
Maybe these stats will clue you in.
F4F-4 has 6 Kills of Bf 109E-4
Bf 109E-4 has 11 Kills of F4F-4
Thats from the current AvA room, not the EWMA. Doesn't seem to be so uber does it.
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For the sake of clarification, as I have no opinion about its inclusion into the setup:
Anybody that's flown it knows it's a damn sight better than the P-40B, turns not as tightly as the spit or hurr1, but almost, and dives much better, but those 6x50cal are much more powerful than anything the allis or axis have. That's about as much punch as the 110c has, but with more consistent results.
Even 2x 50cal are better than 4x .303cal. I think HT models them at as 1 50cal is 3x as powerful as 1 .303cal, but that's just round power. That's not counting ballistics, armor penetration, and effective RANGE of the gun.
4x 50cal would dominate the setup if they were included. 6x50cal would overpower it.
On the one hand I can see it being used as a historical foe for the zero. The 4x50cal version WAS around during this time.
On the other hand, it would be like adding the P-40E. Doesn't matter if it has less AMMO than a P-51 or F4u, it still has the same punch as they do. You get less bursts than the other late war planes, but the effect of any single burst is usually the same: Massive damage [EDIT: Unless you got rubber bullets -- another issue entirely]
With 7mm birds, 600 is "safe" range. With a 50cal bird, you're in the kill zone. It changes gameplay and how the fights take place.
Whether or not it's included, either way suits me. I'd personally shoot at it or from it equally. It's also a tough plane that could probably take most of the ammo a A6M2 or 109E has to offer without going down.
Since forever the over-engined FM2 has been used as a Brewster replacement. I've been against it since forever because the FM2 flies circles around the Brewster. However, the only other option is the F4F-4, and since forever, folks have been saying that the added firepower of the 6 guns makes too much of a difference to use it as a substitute.
I'm not saying use the FM-2. I'm just saying that since "forever" folks have realized and admited that the added guns on the F4F-4 make it a more powerful killer.
P.S. The current allied rides (not counting F4F-4) are perfectly capable of killing the axis rides. Once bombers show up, added firepower will be needed, but not now.
[EDIT: I mean the FM2 is over-engined to be a Brewstersub, compared to the 229 it's overpowered]
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Krusty with reasonable thinking FTW!
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Originally posted by Tango
Maybe these stats will clue you in.
F4F-4 has 6 Kills of Bf 109E-4
Bf 109E-4 has 11 Kills of F4F-4
Thats from the current AvA room, not the EWMA. Doesn't seem to be so uber does it.
Its still uber no matter your stats say. Hell AvA is no better then the EWs nowadays. What you should do is go to the DA and record how many MGFFs it takes to kill a hurri or spit 1 then try the same on the F4F. Then take the 4 gun F4F and see how long it takes to kill a 109 or 110 then take the 6 guns and do the same. Come back to me and tell me Im wrong I dare ya.
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Originally posted by Grits
Tardlo didnt pick a very clever shades name did he? :D
Well, so it goes. ;)
Now ... if I can just get my new Vista run Emachine (two strikes?) to not have issues with AH sound, my headset ... etc ... I could sing my way to glory (sure as hell ain't shootin' my way there). :D
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Vista.... It burns just to read that word...
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Install Vista in only 2 minutes!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVbf9tOGwno
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Originally posted by captain1ma
ACB= Air Combat Baby??? seems he's always crying about something. 22 post and alot of hot air. hmmmmm guess he'll fit right in!! :aok :aok
Since you ain't the Fat Lady (maybe fat n lazy?), lay off my wingy and squad mate. All you're doing is showing inferior brain cells due to jealousy that he can shoot down *coughs* superior Axis planes, with our *coughs again* inferior ones. A feat you can not replicate.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Anything you can do I can do better, I can do anything better than you.
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Originally posted by Odee
Since you ain't the Fat Lady (maybe fat n lazy?), lay off my wingy and squad mate. All you're doing is showing inferior brain cells due to jealousy that he can shoot down *coughs* superior Axis planes, with our *coughs again* inferior ones. A feat you can not replicate.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
actually its just his mindless comments that are a problem, his flying skills are fine right up to the part where he dies at our hands.:) we rather enjoy that, and a few words to razz him are fun too because he takes it so seriously. no biggy.
as for me being jealous.... i hardly think so. if we're such bad pilots, we would've lost this last round in the AVA. :aok :aok Our abilities speak loudly for us as your actions, as humorous as they may be, speak for you. :lol :lol
have a great weekend
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Originally posted by republic
Anything you can do I can do better, I can do anything better than you.
"No you can't!"
EDIT: P.S. : Captain1ma, you may be fine pilots and all, but even rooks win resets in the MA. Doesn't mean they did it through skill, though. :aok
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Originally posted by Krusty
"No you can't!"
:rofl
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"Judges? Oh, I'm sorry, the answer we were looking for was 'Yes I can!' but we have a lovely parting prize for you..."
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Originally posted by captain1ma
as for me being jealous.... i hardly think so. if we're such bad pilots, we would've lost this last round in the AVA. :aok :aok Our abilities speak loudly for us as your actions, as humorous as they may be, speak for you. :lol :lol
have a great weekend
Well, for a pilot that only averages less than .17 kills per sortie with a [sarcasm] stellar .99 hit % [/sarcasm], we all know what your contribution has been in these "victories". It seems the safest place in the AvA is probably in front of your guns.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Krusty
"Judges? Oh, I'm sorry, the answer we were looking for was 'Yes I can!' but we have a lovely parting prize for you..."
Yes I can, yes I can, YES I CAN!!!
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Everyone should fly at 30k like me!
ack-ack
Fixed!
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I was considering hopping in the AvA to enjoy some P38G fights, but after reading 3 pages of a mini-MA rant, why would I want to do that?
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Originally posted by Delirium
I was considering hopping in the AvA to enjoy some P38G fights, but after reading 3 pages of a mini-MA rant, why would I want to do that?
We AvAers are a committed lot (some of us need to be committed). We're very passionate about the spirit of the game.
The past few nights proved that the AvA is evolving...we've had some pretty good fights as of late.
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because its fun??
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Well, for a pilot that only averages less than .17 kills per sortie with a [sarcasm] stellar .99 hit % [/sarcasm], we all know what your contribution has been in these "victories". It seems the safest place in the AvA is probably in front of your guns.
ack-ack
ACKACK looking and rank/score in the AvA now thats just the stupidest thing ever.
The people in the AvA arent scorepotatos like you MA people. Most of the time we dont have CVs that are controlable so theres no need to have good rank. I know some people including bail out instead of landing when the fight is somewhere else. Since you dont play the AvA why do you even come to post in its forums?
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Originally posted by Larry
Since you dont play the AvA why do you even come to post in its forums?
He craves attention?
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Originally posted by Delirium
I was considering hopping in the AvA to enjoy some P38G fights, but after reading 3 pages of a mini-MA rant, why would I want to do that?
Because the Allies need a good strong squad such as yours to take it to the Axis, would be my guess.
Get in on the command and control as a Battle Commander, XO, or even CO and direct the forces of RIGHT.
Avoid the rants and hit the AvA Allies Only thread... special invites by request.
PS Love Ack-Ack's response. Touche' sir!:aok
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Originally posted by Delirium
I was considering hopping in the AvA to enjoy some P38G fights, but after reading 3 pages of a mini-MA rant, why would I want to do that?
Perhaps because you are wise enough not to pay too much attention to BBS rants?
- oldman
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Originally posted by captain1ma
actually its just his mindless comments that are a problem, his flying skills are fine right up to the part where he dies at our hands.:) we rather enjoy that, and a few words to razz him are fun too because he takes it so seriously. no biggy.
as for me being jealous.... i hardly think so. if we're such bad pilots, we would've lost this last round in the AVA. :aok :aok Our abilities speak loudly for us as your actions, as humorous as they may be, speak for you. :lol :lol
have a great weekend
Hahahaha! Irony!
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Originally posted by Larry
ACKACK looking and rank/score in the AvA now thats just the stupidest thing ever.
The people in the AvA arent scorepotatos like you MA people. Most of the time we dont have CVs that are controlable so theres no need to have good rank. I know some people including bail out instead of landing when the fight is somewhere else. Since you dont play the AvA why do you even come to post in its forums?
First of all, one can hardly claim I'm a score potato or that I even play for "rank".
Yes, I do play in the AvA when I get a chance but unfortunately, most times I have the time to play the arena is virtually empty.
Yes, I think Jaeger1's stats are germain, though while not a true indicator of one's abilities, it can indicate if someone like Jaeger1 is just a ornary chihuahua or someone that can actually shot down the target that's in front of their guns. So far, it's looking like he's a chihuahua. If he would like to show me different, I'll be more than happy to arrange some 1v1 time with him ^___^
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
First of all, one can hardly claim I'm a score potato or that I even play for "rank".
Hummmm....
I maintain, so I do, that AckAck is a scorepotato.
Yes, it must be so.
- oldman