Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: megadud on July 25, 2005, 09:56:47 AM
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I am aware that i will get a bunch of crap for this but they do exist!!! i have about 4 films where my spit 5 bullits are rubber. And i also had a bunch of sorties i didn't film with rubber bullets. Can this be fixed or should i just continue to be ticked off sortie after sortie?
Also what is with assists? Is it who does the most damage because i got films putting that in the trash as well. Don't want to be a troll just want answers. Thanks MegaDud :aok
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My throttle was spiking and my hit % went from about 5% to less than 2% in a matter of a few days. I wasn't hitting anything. I fixed the throttle spikes and got my bullets back. Now one may have nothing to do with the other. But I'd check my controls to see if anything is spiking.
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Would love to see the film.
HiTech
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If this were poker, Hitech would be telling you "I call".
Send him the films, show him your cards. ;)
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Can I play, because I raise 5.
I have a film of Traps (ki84) and I(spit9) fighting in fightertown.
I can't tell you how many times I pinged him (1.7% hit only fight I had a CT). I do know he leaked fuel from the begining of the fight till *I* ran out of gas and ammo. The fight lasted about 10 minutes. Wanna see my rubber bullets? I'll be glad to send it.
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I have seen it as well, but the film wasn't rolling. Anyone know if the hits still count as hits if they show up on your screen but the other guy never feels them?
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Call it rumor, call it conjecture, but there has always been the belief that not having V-sync on caused at least the appearance if not the actuality of rubber bullets. Often people would leave V-sync off to attain the appearance of very high framerates to make them feel better about their rig. In reality it is much better to have V-sync on as those reported framerates with it off are illusory. Make sure your V-sync is ON.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Call it rumor, call it conjecture, but there has always been the belief that not having V-sync on caused at least the appearance if not the actuality of rubber bullets. Often people would leave V-sync off to attain the appearance of very high framerates to make them feel better about their rig. In reality it is much better to have V-sync on as those reported framerates with it off are illusory. Make sure your V-sync is ON.
Zazen
And that may well be. If v-sync is off and your monitor refresh rate is say 80, frame rate higher than 80 will cause frames to be thrown away as a result of excess rendering. One of those frames may have been the one where your bullets hit the other plane.
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I thought 'rubber bullets' have to do with lag. Getting hits on your front end or he taking hits on his FE.
I have had so called rubber bullets (ie missing shots that i *know* should have hit - even set up ones).
But ive also had the opposite lately (dont know if thats on film somewhere):
I shoot my 8 303s at an F4U from d150. No hit sprites whatsoever. Huh? How could i have missed that one? Strange. Suddely, maybe two seconds later he looses his tail. I get kill awarded (no previous damage to plane, no one cutting in). Maybe the he was hit only on his FE?
Im no comuter crack. Dunno if that makes sense. But it sounded logical to me.
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Where exactly should I send the film? Support or somewhere else?
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Yeah, I'm sure if you label it "rubber bullets" and send it to support it'll get where it needs to go.
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I'm betting .303s, not rubber bullets.
:p
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Originally posted by Karnak
I'm betting .303s, not rubber bullets.
:p
could be but i put alot of .303's into the planes if it was. I wish the filmviewer had a way to decipher the cannons and BBs.
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Originally posted by Howitzer
I have seen it as well, but the film wasn't rolling. Anyone know if the hits still count as hits if they show up on your screen but the other guy never feels them?
or why i would take invisible hits (no sprites on my film) from a guy shooting a good 75+ yds behind where i am?
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In the hanger when you choose your gun package, stop picking the RB one, RB- dont stand for real bullets, it means rubber bullets. gezzzz mon! In ww2 they made some planes outa rubber, so if you try to kill a RP-rubber plane, with RB-rubber bullets the result is obivious, bouncey -bounce. hehe!
Ive shot down some of these RP's and seen them bounce on the ground only to have them go to tower and I get No kill and they get a ditch! oh and there Is rubber trees too! bounced tanks off of them SOB's :eek:
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I take that back. Apparently , a ki84 can take a lot of hits and drip fuel for a long long time. If you haven't seen Wilbus' film in the training section, you need to check it out. Its amazing and quite dramatic.
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or why i would take invisible hits (no sprites on my film) from a guy shooting a good 75+ yds behind where i am?
That's because on his computer you are 75 yards behind where you think you are.
You call yourself a great pilot and you haven't figured this out yet?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
That's because on his computer you are 75 yards behind where you think you are.
You call yourself a great pilot and you haven't figured this out yet?
And how does this have anything to do with being a good fighter pilot? :rolleyes:
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For what it's worth - I've gotten hits but no sprites just puffs of small debris, which is a recent addition to AH. I've also gotten no sprites and no puffs but gotten kills. What I've noticed flying the Yak9T lately is that on Snapshots I get a sprite (or 2) but no BOOM. Apparently the puny peashooter mounted in the cowling is landing hits but incapable of causing much damage while the bad guy is flying between the 37MM flaming Coconuts of Death (low rate of fire on that thing compounded by different ballistics). These may be some of your problems MegaDud. Or it could be something else....
BTW, on a side note, there's nothing like killing an entire formation of B24s in one pass in the Yak9T:D
Magoo
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Well, you shouldn't be firing different types of rounds at the same time.
They have different ballistics. Just because your MG is hitting, doesn't mean that your 37mm is going to even come close to hitting.
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Originally posted by Karnak
I'm betting .303s, not rubber bullets.
:p
I never 100% bought into the "rubber bullet" stuff until right after the last patch. I was point blank on a LaLa in a Ki-84 on his 6. Drained my last 20 some odd rounds of 20mm and well over 150 rounds of mg into him with no effect. The problem with the "rubber bullet" syndrome for me is it hasnt been consistant. One thing I did notice last night when I followed Stang into a furball, both of us in Ki 84s. He made a comment on range about the " damn rubber bullets" at the same time I was pooring rounds into a Hog with no effect and thinking the same thing.
I have no film either but Ill work on that.
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Originally posted by Magoo
BTW, on a side note, there's nothing like killing an entire formation of B24s in one pass in the Yak9T:D
Magoo
Well add a B17 and a lanc formation then land your 9 kills :D
And btw never fire your MG with the 37mm.
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In AW there was a lot of problems with rubber bullets because the game showed you both the hits that only your FE saw and what the host saw. So AW had the option to disable Local Hits (the hits only your FE saw) which only showed the hits the host was able to see. Maybe AH has local hits too and that is what you're seeing sometimes.
ack-ack
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Naaaaw, it`s top secret and HT can`t talk about it yet.
Only thing that can be said is that it is a testing ground for B.F. Goodrich`s new radial ammo. :)
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Any chance SAVIS is taking the real bullits out of our packetts while they are passing through their routers and replacing them with duds?:D <---------joking uphimism here........:cool:
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
That's because on his computer you are 75 yards behind where you think you are.
You call yourself a great pilot and you haven't figured this out yet?
oh i've figured this one out a long time ago, my point was why no sprites on my end/film. i'm effectively receiving no feedback i'm taking hits until after the damage is already way done.
to know approximately how far the other guy may be requires knowing his connection, i.e., latency, even then it's harder to fight someone who has a higher latency than yourself. (think on that and see if you can figure out why).
it didn't use to be this way until the huge increase in player base came about. so what changed?
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Originally posted by bustr
Any chance SAVIS is taking the real bullits out of our packetts while they are passing through their routers and replacing them with duds?:D <---------joking uphimism here........:cool:
ROFLMAO, that *must* be it!!!
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I've only had rubber bullets once; the time my connection was crapping out.
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to know approximately how far the other guy may be requires knowing his connection, i.e., latency, even then it's harder to fight someone who has a higher latency than yourself. (think on that and see if you can figure out why).
No, that's a common misconception. And since you're very common :D I can see how it will trip you up.
It's not like playing on a 14 baud modem will give you god mode. All of the planes flying around him will be jumping around like crazy. Any slight change in flight path you make will be a huge jump on his end. Not to mention packet loss...
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RUBBER RUBBER CURE YOUR RUBBER BULLETS from a guy thats been there with a pi$$ poor weak system.....
Assuming you have have a fps of 35+ in "blue sky", if you ain't your DOOOOOOMED. You have no option other than an a upgrade but still try the following.. step bt step. An appropriate analogy.... "Correctly set the foundation bricks when biulding a house"
1) Set desk top resolution the same as AH resolution. Right click desk top.
2) Set Monitor hzt as high as it will go. Usually find it by right click on desk top then settings then monitor. Override it and make it so.
3)Right click desk top settings then vid card. Make Vsync "ON BY DEFAULT" it is a MUST.
4) Add more system memory on the appropriate TAB usually double what it's set at.
5)Set vid card to "MAX RERFORMANCE" on all TABS and NOT "best quality"......performancs performance performance I stress PERFORMANCE... screw quality.
6) In game go set up vidio and move quality slider up a little .....I'm sure theres more but it's alte and i'm faling asleep Good Luck.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
No, that's a common misconception. And since you're very common :D I can see how it will trip you up.
It's not like playing on a 14 baud modem will give you god mode. All of the planes flying around him will be jumping around like crazy. Any slight change in flight path you make will be a huge jump on his end. Not to mention packet loss...
no they won't. you're confusing latency with packet loss. go back and reveiw internet connections for dummies.
you can have an extremely stable (no packet loss) connection with high latency.
conversely you can have a blazing high speed braodband connect that is experience packet loss.
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Er Lynx, if it takes all that, its a design problem. There's a better way to do it - believe me, i did this for a living.
thats not a put down - I just don't think it takes all that. I think its mistaken expectations of damag or perhaps lost packets. But if fiddling with resolution matters, the disign is messed up- botched
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No Shane. The rate of information would only detract from gameplay. Not make it easier.
That's the reason why when you lag things jump around. Because the rate of information flow cannot keep up to the pace of flying in Aces High.
I wasn't saying that Packet loss was the source of the problem. I was just saying that it doesn't help.
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Chat lag also causes rubber bullets.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
No Shane. The rate of information would only detract from gameplay. Not make it easier.
That's the reason why when you lag things jump around. Because the rate of information flow cannot keep up to the pace of flying in Aces High.
I wasn't saying that Packet loss was the source of the problem. I was just saying that it doesn't help.
sigh...
show me the jumping? i was smooth as silk on his end too. i'm not talking about performance lag on one's PC handling all the data (due to not enough ram/vidcard/various settings/running too much junk/spyware/etc - things that interfere with CPU cyles) , but rather latency on internet routing.
http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/170_1122254708_film100.zip
now for illustrative purposes, my usual ping (based on the login screen) is about 60ms. BGB's says his is around 200ms.
that's not major serious lag and is totally acceptable for gameplay according to HT and Skuzzy... however it does make action like this more difficult. HTC packets are the same size regardless of one's pipeline or routing.
The worst i've encountered was Fariz (connecting from Russia at 700ms is a similar setting. he was also smooth as silk, as was i to him. yet after i found out what his latency was i simply adjusted and delayed my own moves until i was able to acquire his six after quite a few turns. it took longer because i had to anticiapte him seeing me further away than i currently was. 200ms is a lot more difficult to judge.
watching the film in external you'll see no sprites on my end (i'm sure bgb saw them on his) - and you'll clearly see the tracers going well behind me.
when i said it's harder for me to deal with than bgb, think about that.... the only advantage a faster connect may have is in a HO situation or massive furball blazing thru for cherrys. fighting someone with a slower connect throws off your timing. they know that i'm closer than i appear to them and can react accordingly at a longer distance (on their end). while it's a lot harder to reverse that and allow them to get even closer (on my end) before reacting. see the difference yet?
it's because i am good enough and have played this type of online game long enough that i can easily identify when i'm up against someone with higher latency - unfortunately ususally after the fact that i was just shot down (and it's almost impossible to ID plenty beforehand in the MA) - i take hits when i'm 95% of the time clear (on my end) from their guns solution.
i ride it so close to the edge with finessed timing that my margin for error is very small - that's part of why i'm successful at what i do.
just sayin'
no slam on bgb, he does have clues about how to fly.
i'm also saying that about 2.5 years ago i did some experimentation with people who had 300ms lag to my still around 40ms. the perceived distance discrepancy was a lot smaller than it currently is (netcoding?). now whether something actually changed or whether it's merely a result of the increased traffic, i dunno. but it is there.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Chat lag also causes rubber bullets.
ack-ack
that's because the chat and damage updates share the same server, while the flight position updates seem to use a different server (or different part of the program on the same server) and is unaffected. usually when the chat/damage is lagging, so is login.
this is what i've been able to see from my perspective and research, along with some inferences about how things seem to operate.
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I had a run in a tempest last month where I lit up about 3 planes only to see minimal damage. On the first pass on the jug I encountered, I counted 15+ sprites all over the plane as I passed him. When he pulled up all he has was a gas leak. The whole run was that way. Just seemed odd. I checked my hit % as that is something I'm trying to work on, and I felt I landed quite a few shots that run, but my percentage dropped quite a bit.
I guess it is just one of those things, maybe sometime I'll get lucky and get it on film.
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Well, you shouldn't be firing different types of rounds at the same time.
And btw never fire your MG with the 37mm.
Geez, who let out the Weapon Nazis?
OK Just kidding...dudes, I was just pointing out what could be misleading to SuperDud. I personally don't have a problem with MG hits while flying the Yak9T. I usually get in reeeel close unless it's a buff (which presents a bigger target). You don't have the ammo to afford any longer shots, although those cannons can hit from a good ways out and certain situations may warrant a long shot. As I said, on snapshots I just know that sometimes I'll only land MGs hits. It's an assumed risk when flying the Yak9T.
Laser Sailor, I think your gonna lose the debate with Shane. Outside of being a bombastic ass, he knows his shiot.
So Shane, in an example where I am being chased by a guy that appears to be in lag pursuit only to start taking pings from him, then his ping time must be much lower than mine. This is curious at first glance because I usually get a ping time to the MA of around 60 ms. Having said this, and considering the available causes, I must have had a spike in my ping time, since it's unlikely the other guy is gonna get lower than 60 ms.
On similar topic, has anyone else had their ping to the MA go up recently? I was getting 60 ms reliably up until the last week or so and now im sitting dead on 100 ms every time I log in. It is a steady 100 ms so all in all it's not a bad thing. Just wondering.
Magoo
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Originally posted by Magoo
So Shane, in an example where I am being chased by a guy that appears to be in lag pursuit only to start taking pings from him, then his ping time must be much lower than mine. This is curious at first glance because I usually get a ping time to the MA of around 60 ms. Having said this, and considering the available causes, I must have had a spike in my ping time, since it's unlikely the other guy is gonna get lower than 60 ms.
On similar topic, has anyone else had their ping to the MA go up recently? I was getting 60 ms reliably up until the last week or so and now im sitting dead on 100 ms every time I log in. It is a steady 100 ms so all in all it's not a bad thing. Just wondering.
Magoo
A) depends on the shot, if it's being taken in a turning lag pursuit that is on it's way to becoming a lead pursuit, you gotta remember the guy is seeing you where you were a fraction of a second ago. so while you may see him at 800 (time to turn and make him miss) he may actually be 1k away in which you just screwed your timing and allowed him to pull into your turn and get some hits in. in your view you thought you squeeked aside, in his view you gave him a nice planform shot. my posted film clearly demonstrates this.
B) at times i do see pings crepping upwards near the 100ms mark, but generally it fluctuates between 47 - 68ms. sometimes the net just gets balky with too much traffic or router issues.
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A) depends on the shot, if it's being taken in a turning lag pursuit that is on it's way to becoming a lead pursuit, you gotta remember the guy is seeing you where you were a fraction of a second ago.
Ya, I'm hip to that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your describing the "normal" difference between a dogfight on the internet and RL. For example, in RL (such as what's quoted in Shaw's book and other examples) the pursued knows he's in trouble, when in a turn, he can see the underside of the bad guy when looking back (picture looking at the front of a plane from about 15 degrees below the nose), which means he's pulled lead and has guns resolution - provided you keep turning at the same rate. That's your visual cue that your about to take hits.
On the internet, due to normal lag time between the front ends of the engaged pilots, the visual cue is when you see the bad guy from pretty much straight on while looking back. He's appearing to be in pure pursuit, or almost lead pursuit, on your front end but on his front end (once again due to normal lag time) he's actually in lead pursuit with guns resolution. So in AH your visual cue that your about to take hits, generally speaking, is when the bad guy is pointed straight at you in your rear view (which is actually between pure and lead pursuit).
But to my original question, this guy wasn't even pointed straight at me. I could see the top of his plane (picture looking at the front of the plane with about 15 degrees up angle) and he didn't appear to be gaining any angle in the turn.. I was still looking backwards at this view when I took hits.
Magoo
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Shane,
So from your explanation on latentcy, my attempts to be at 200 before fireing, in reality I may be as much as 1200 from the cons perspective when I open up on him? That can account for sitting on a cons 6 at 200 and never getting a hit on him in a 2 second burst. But at other times being at 600, killing him with a single ping and blowing up seconds later because I flew through his invisible debri.
Thanks for the info. Knowing this makes it funnier now when it happens.:)
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Originally posted by Magoo
But to my original question, this guy wasn't even pointed straight at me. I could see the top of his plane (picture looking at the front of the plane with about 15 degrees up angle) and he didn't appear to be gaining any angle in the turn.. I was still looking backwards at this view when I took hits.
Magoo
watch the film i posted a few replies up. it's exactly what you are describing, just more in the vertical. me = 60ms he = 200ms.
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Originally posted by bustr
Shane,
So from your explanation on latentcy, my attempts to be at 200 before fireing, in reality I may be as much as 1200 from the cons perspective when I open up on him? That can account for sitting on a cons 6 at 200 and never getting a hit on him in a 2 second burst. But at other times being at 600, killing him with a single ping and blowing up seconds later because I flew through his invisible debri.
Thanks for the info. Knowing this makes it funnier now when it happens.:)
ahhh i wouldn't go so far as to say it's that huge a difference of 1k.... but if you're opening up from his 6ish or so at 200 he may be seeing you at 250-400yds if the connect latency discrepancy is big enough.
but....
in this situation from an almost dead 6, it's what shows on your FE that's going to count in terms of hits.. you'll be doing dmg at 200yds while he'll be taking it at 250+ yds. if he jinks out of the way (because you're so close on his 6) he may be taking dmg (based on any hits you scored) when he tought he was hopefully clear. also if the latency is high enough it takes time for the damage to register on his end and then get reported back to you.
this is also why you see people claiming that the faster connect loses ho/rams, because while you see the collision/hits, he's either still clear or slow in getting the damage updates. so you either eat the ram or take his HO damages faster since you're getting the damage updates faster. make sense?
now, if your connect is the slower one in this situation he may be seeing you right on his tail at 50-100 yds and jinking like crazy while you're seeing him do the jinks at 200yds. it's a lot easier to hit stuff at 200 than 50-100 from a dead 6 with jinking involved, no?
connects are a fascinating subject fro me even tho' i'm merely understand it from a layman's perspective. the technical aspects i have very little clue about which is why it amazes me we can even play this kind of game over the internet.
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Unfortunately I have no film, as I hardly ever turn film on.
But last night, in a PonyB, I shot up about 5 planes, not a part came off, and not a single assist. These were high speed firing passes, all at D400 and under, convergence set to 350 yds. So it isn't like I sat all day on their tails hammering away.
However, later in the night, I took the wing off of a NIKI only using the 303's on a Seafire. I was out of cannons, I vulched him as he was low and turning slow. :D I doubt if I would have finised him with 303s in a normal dogfight.
So I have no imperical evidence, but I have a gut feeling that the Pony B's guns seem a lot less effective than before Patch 1.
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OK...if both connects are identical, say 100 ms and rock steady on both PCs, is the distance shown on both FEs the same at any particular instant? I was under the impression that with all things being equal in a tail chase, the chaser actually shows a little more yardage on his FE compared to the chasee (looking back) at any given instant. The lag is what throws a monkey wrench into who can hit and at what distance from whos FE.
When I'm in the MA I don't panic until the guy is 400 yds off mt six (with Hispanos or 50 cals) because I'm thinking he's more likely showing 500 or more on his (or her) FE and the shooter's FE is the one that counts.
Magoo
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Hmmmmmmmmmmm........
Well,
Since the last patch I was getting this hit em allot and little or even no viewable damage thing.
Example dove in on a c205 and fired right into his 6. Saw hit sprites galore! Put enough into that c205 it should have blown off the tail section. result? and oil leak :(
Got frustrated. This had been going on for several days. :mad:
In an attempt to fix this removed AHII from computer C: drive location using add/remove programs.
Tried a reinstall to H: drive location and then added the patch's again.
Start AHII and CTD?!?!?!
Tried 3 times with same result CTD.
HMMMMMM............
OK suffered through a 6 + hour download of latest full version. Dialup here at 37,333.
Installed to H: drive location and then copied skins, sound, and setting folders from C: drive location over to latest install on H: drive location.
Fired it up! Went online and started hitting again. Result........ now when I hit em they come apart like they used to!!!!!!!!!!
Hmmmmmmm............
maybe I had a bad download on that last patch?
Not sure what caused the.. fire 50% of your ammo to get 1 kill thing... but downloading and install of full version SEEMS to have fixed it. Or packet lose stopped at the same time I did this????
System:
AMD 2500+ Barton
Asus A7V8X-X
W98se
1 mg memory
ATI 9800 pro
SB PCI512
Hmmmm....... could the part of AHII on my machine that communicates with the HT server have somehow become kaka?
Resulting in the possible packet loss? My system, for some reason, simply was NOT sending all the info to HTC server?
Had this problem back with AHI. Would start getting occurances of no or little damage when firing. Used to uninstall and reinstall AHI and the problem seemed to go away?!?!
Maybe it's just my system. But hmmm got a brand new HD since then.
W98se thing?
Ya I know this shouldn't happen. But a remove and reinstall with a full version rather then older with patchs always seems to fix things...........
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At any point did you try defraging your C:\ drive 2-3 times in a row? Uninstalling and reinstalling files pushes things around almost like a defrag.
On the other hand I noticed when I had to completely rebuild my system recently, my FPS increased, and I had rubber bullits in every 9th position on the ammo belt, instead of 1 real bullit to every 9 rubber.
Systems get toasty over time. Defragging, uninstalling/reinstalling, and rebuilding come with the territory when you play with PC's.
Oh and when I see other guy(s) warping I've taken to looking at my net status ASAP and find my connection has just experienced a spike, ramped sawtooth patterns, or a large square wave. It's only when all the guys around me say they see a single con or freindly warping that it's not my connection.
On the rare occasion I get alot of spiking and wave forms in my net status display, I turn off my PC and reboot my DSL modem and router. If it doesn't clear it up I do a pig plot to the server, and usually I see packetts dropping through SAVIS along with my round trip time doubled.
If I start having consistant bad gunnery from 200d, I stop blaming the other guy and the game and begin trouble shooting my system and connection.
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You know, I use a cable modem via Charter communications here in Atlanta and I almost never get a bad connect to AH. I know Savvis is getting hammered in the boards and on channel 200 but I don't see it. I wonder if my ISP is dropping my packets into a "bigger pipe" with savvis than some smaller ISPs? Maybe I'm just missing the routers that cause all the problems - don't know how if Savvis is the last mile at HTC...
Magoo
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I agree the idea that talking about rubber bullets without a film is pretty much useless. I just don't see how defragging the drive would make a shot hit if it wouldn't hit on a fragmented drive. The program doesn't access the hard drive all that much after its loaded, and when it does, you'll notice it as there is still that micro freeze. Just because the drive is fragmented doesn't mean the program loads fragmented into system memory. And I am 99.999999999% sure the algorithm that determines a hit is stored in memory and does not require drive access. So how could defragging the drive possibly help?
What would be a lot more useful is the written account and a film.
I've just found films often look different than what is remembered and even "weird" films are not at all weird when things are explained (like a ki84 has 5 gas tanks).
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Originally posted by Magoo
OK...if both connects are identical, say 100 ms and rock steady on both PCs, is the distance shown on both FEs the same at any particular instant?
in an ideal world, it would be within 10 yds - an immaterial distance.
but... no two connects are ever identical, simply due to external factors such as pc overhead on the individual's end that do impact things as well.
htc does employ some sort of smoothing code, but even that has it's tolerances.
in general we're mostly close enough for gubmint work.
so when ya'll see me toss out the occasional "nice lag" you can bet your donut i know wherefore what of i speak. :aok
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With fiber in Azerbaijan, and good 2mb ADSL now, my connect is under 300 (usually around 250), so I can compare.
Take it as seriously as you can: ideas that slow connect is a massive advantage is simply idiotic. I can't even stress enough how far from reallities they are. I agree that slow connect can be advantage in very conservative b&z tactics, but it turns into disadvantage in any furball/duel situation. I became much more efficient as a dueler when I got faster connect. I started getting fun from furballs only when I got faster connect. Period.
If you do not believe me, just think about the following. It is very simple to write program, which will "catch" and delay packages on the network interface from the clien side, and thus would make your lag adjustable. This "cheating" will be absolutely "transparent" for a server. If slow connect could be an advantage, you would see lot of people "cheating" by the big lag. The only reason why it is not this way is because big lag is not an advantage. In the network playing the faster your connect is, the more fun and "natural" game is. It is the absolute truth, at least I have not seen a single exception yet.
I understand, that big lag create some problems for little lag crowd, but what you shall know, is that guy on the other side has much more problems generally, and would happily change his connect to the faster one.
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in a furball, no.
bnz, yes.
dueling, yes, until the discrepancy is accounted for properly. remeber how you got me the first time til you told me what your latency was? i had to make a serious adjustment and trust in allowing you to get much closer than was truly comfortable. then i had to work you until i could pull for a clean kill shot and wait for the damage to make the transit.
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Originally posted by Shane
The worst i've encountered was Fariz (connecting from Russia at 700ms is a similar setting.
Worst I've run into is Oleg (I call him O-lag), who is also from Russia. Really laggy guys are easy to tell when they hit you, because as Shane says you take hits when you should have been easily clear. Many times the guy will be 200-400 past the merge and you are still taking hits. I dont think that kind of latency should be allowed.
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Originally posted by Grits
Worst I've run into is Oleg (I call him O-lag), who is also from Russia. Really laggy guys are easy to tell when they hit you, because as Shane says you take hits when you should have been easily clear. Many times the guy will be 200-400 past the merge and you are still taking hits. I dont think that kind of latency should be allowed.
AH hit system is made the way when hits visible to others= lag*3. It is because packets travel 3 times betwen client and server in case of hits registered (no idea why it is this way, but probably as a security measure against hacks). With lag 400ms it makes 1.2 seconds before you feel the hits. With 700m=2.1s. Do not judge actual lag on the hit delay, you will just fool yourself.
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THIS EXPLAINS A LOT! I CAN'T HIT %?!#.:mad: :cool: :confused: :(
I AM GENERALLY DOA!
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Hmm travels 3 times to client and server, wonder where that rumor started.
Fariz you are incorect in both your description and deduction.
HiTech
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Originally posted by Howitzer
I had a run in a tempest last month where I lit up about 3 planes only to see minimal damage. On the first pass on the jug I encountered, I counted 15+ sprites all over the plane as I passed him. When he pulled up all he has was a gas leak. The whole run was that way. Just seemed odd. I checked my hit % as that is something I'm trying to work on, and I felt I landed quite a few shots that run, but my percentage dropped quite a bit.
I've seen the same probelm. And IMHO it is a problem. I contribute it to lag and perhaps total number of planes in a given spot.
A couple of things I've noticed. Something has changed once again within the game. The last update seemed to cause me lags almost everytme I flew. Along with the lags came screen freezes and
missing impossibly easy shots. When a patch came out it went away and things got back to normal. The past week or so...introduction of the new pony or the N?....and the lags seem to be back. I saddle up on a yak from 200 out for almost a minute and parked there peppering away. Not even a sprite.
Along the same lines I was in low at 52 last night in heavy traffic and whenever I looked around my screen would freeze for up to a second. During that time a full freeze left me wondering just what direction my plane was turning. Since I'd seen it just a few weeks before I just looged for the night as I knew it wasn't going to get any better. Also, I put a second and a half, unloaded into some guy and was pulling off thinking, "gotta love the lag" and as I had turned 90 degrees away he completely blew up. It happened 2 or 3 times last night. Im thinking it was 3 seconds after I shot him.
As far as filming...I normally don't film fights as I did that around 12 years ago and I got the "look how great I am syndrome" outa the way a long time ago so I don't have a film showing it but I'vve been doing this long enough to understand what I'm seeing. I'm wondering if it might be the new (old) map that just began in the last week....
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Ren
The Damned
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Originally posted by hitech
Hmm travels 3 times to client and server, wonder where that rumor started.
Fariz you are incorect in both your description and deduction.
HiTech
Film fight with someone with high lag, then jump into his plane in the film viewer, and check the time after the tracers fly from his plane, and the damage your plane gets. Because film records the event on YOUR side, tracers flying by and dammage message shall be simultanious or very close if it is server side delay, but in fact it is more than a second, which is equal about twice the lag the other guy has. Film the encounter with someone with smaller lag, and you will see there are no such a delay. May be there are some other explanation? Will gladly listen to it, and where I am wrong in my assumption.
I have sent you a film to info@hitechcreations.com with explanation how to check for it the results I got.
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Your asumption is wrong because it dosn't travel 3 times.
Shooter detects hit, sends to server, server sends it to the person who was hit.
There can be up to a 250ms added lag do to hit buffering for bursts of hits.
2nd.
Burst are seen from other players in 250ms or 500ms blocks.
There is no way to know what bullet in the show burst hit you, weather at the end of the burst or the begining.
HiTech
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Is it possible that shooting both machine guns and cannons at the same time only the machine guns will hit? because i have switched to using only cannons and planes seem to fall apart easier.
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Of course it is posible they both don't hit, MG and Cannons have different tragactories. And in most cases both would hardly ever hit at the same time.
HiTech
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Hello HT. I have a film of an LA7 taking a 30mm hit in rear fuselage together with some 13mm hits from about 200 yards.
No dammage at all. Would this be considered a "rubber bullet" or was it just bad luck on my part where it hit exactly in a hard spot?
Never seen it happen before which is why I ask. A minute or so after the hit I hit him again and took his wing off. They always lose the tail/ rear fuselage in such cases. Only time they survive 30mm hits is if it hits the engine. Atleast for me.
I have film of what I thought was alot of 30mm hits into a B24 aswell without any visable dammage at all but not sure about that, will recheck in the morning, getting late now.
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There is no such thing as rubber bullet that you see hit and do not do damage.
So I would atribute it to luck wilbus.
HiTech
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Ok, lucky LA :D
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Personally I beginning to worry that the game is reaching its saturation point. I hope that's not the case. Been there, done that...it's no fun.
My normal FR is 65-70. I get in low with multiple bogies, flaming buildings, puff ack, a fleet a mile or so offshore and I see complete freeze ups for up to a full second. Not so much warping in the old sense but definite lag is showing.
_____________
Ren
The Damned
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pls, pls, pls poepl.. let's stop confusing the terminology...
warps = packet loss; internet routing issue usually.
lag = latency; time of trip for packets to reach you/HTC.
stutters/mini-freezes = end user/CPU issues, usually sound/vid or some other junk on your system. often confused with warps.
1. you can have high lag, but an extrememly stable connect.
2. you have have blazing, but unstable connect.
3. your PC might be on it's way to becoming a POS unless you upgrade or figure out how to tweak things. sometimes HTC's server(s) have a hairball and things get wonky like text/dmg "lag" or inability to access BBS or login.
#1 and 2 are generally beyond your (and HTC's) immediate control.
#3 is entirely in your control to the extent you or a geek buddy can tweak stuff. or get new stuff. or until skuzzy finishes his pr0n d/l.
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Would all this explain why you might see multiple hits on a wing, but the other guy reports rudder damage?
Or when a guy says he lit you up all over the tail but all you lose is 1 gun in the wing?
Or try this -
Take a F6F and try to de-ack a field with it using machine guns.
Almost guarentee 1st flak hit 90% of the time takes out the same gun on the same wing.
But thanks Shane I always thought in a ho the lower latency is at a disadvantage. Would this hold true for a collision also?
Dunno about rubber bullets but something I have come across -
Real in close fast snapshots (when range show d0), you getting hit sprites, other guy doesnt report hits at all.
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last evening ,i was goon hunting in me262, i hit a C47, with 30mm shells , i see 5-6 sparks on him, but no damage, he was still flying , no smoke or parts coming out of him, at 2nd pass blew up . This happened many times before when i'm in high speed planes me262/ me163,
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Would all this explain why you might see multiple hits on a wing, but the other guy reports rudder damage?
Or when a guy says he lit you up all over the tail but all you lose is 1 gun in the wing?
I've wondered something simular to this. I've seen on my end that I danced many rounds from one wingtip to the other in a spit at 200 in the DA, only for the guy to not die and for him to tell me he only heard 1 ping? I've also had the same happen to me? Granted it could be said that he didn't die b/c "luckily" for him no cannon rounds hit vital areas but he should of at least heard more than 1 ping?
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This might be related.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=156247
Still happens, havent found problem yet.
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Originally posted by Shane
pls, pls, pls poepl.. let's stop confusing the terminology...
warps = packet loss; internet routing issue usually.
lag = latency; time of trip for packets to reach you/HTC.
stutters/mini-freezes = end user/CPU issues, usually sound/vid or some other junk on your system. often confused with warps.
#3 is entirely in your control to the extent you or a geek buddy can tweak stuff. or get new stuff. or until skuzzy finishes his pr0n d/l.
I know the difference. Been there done that for many years....something has changed. I'm not going to say the we may be seeing the limits of the arena regarding play but I'd like others would sure like to kn ow what's changed.
Ren
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Originally posted by Kev367th
But thanks Shane I always thought in a ho the lower latency is at a disadvantage. Would this hold true for a collision also?
In a true HO where the lower latency guys has better aim, he'll hit the higher guy first (which will take a bit of time to register) and while this is occurring the higher guy has gotten closer - making his own hits, which will register on the lower guy faster.
so it sort of cancels it out with a margin of error either way... but what happens is these jousters keep on going after each other and collide!! whammo, who "sees" it first? why the guy with the lower latency.
if the latency discrepancy between the two is relatively close, i.e. less than 50ms difference, both will most likely take damage from the hits or collision.
but when the discrepancy is even greater 150ms + the odds will favor the higher latency in the above situation.
make sense?
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
I know the difference. Been there done that for many years....something has changed. I'm not going to say the we may be seeing the limits of the arena regarding play but I'd like others would sure like to kn ow what's changed.
Ren
lemme go out on a limb and make a WAG that it has to do with the amount of data in/method of packets being sent; i.e. "net coding."
just my WAG.
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Perfect sense thanks.
Does that also apply to collisions?
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Perfect sense thanks.
Does that also apply to collisions?
i'm pretty sure i said, "yeah." :)
the low latecny guys whine they take the collision due to their faster connect.
the higher latency guys whine because in a collison they die first.
what's happening is the lower guy is taking the actual ram while the higher guy might be taking the delayed "hits" after he got close enough to think he took the ram - he didn't... most likely the earlier hits finally registered on his end.
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Oh DUH silly me, yup I missed it.
Thanks once again.
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Shane in a head on collision both planes will collide at the same time no mater what the lag is.
I.E. you are always see the other plane at (your lag + other players lag ) time ago. So total lag at seeing the plane is = for both, and hence they both would see the collision at the same time.
The only advantage the greater lag player has is if both planes do collided, and both planes suffer a death in the collision. The slower lag player would be awarded the kill. But both would still end up dead.
HiTech
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a pure collision would be easy enough to test.
anyone with a 200ms+ connect wanna go do a few jousts in the DA and we both film them?
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Cant I ping at 60ms.
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Quick question...
When I load up the arenas screen and I see pings of 25-35 for all of them... is this great/good/average/poor?
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Originally posted by Mak333
Quick question...
When I load up the arenas screen and I see pings of 25-35 for all of them... is this great/good/average/poor?
that's great.
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Originally posted by Shane
a pure collision would be easy enough to test.
anyone with a 200ms+ connect wanna go do a few jousts in the DA and we both film them?
Im at 150-170. Will that work?
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LOL you guys with pings under 250 got it made!!!!!!!!!
With Pingplotter I'm gettin at best about 250......................
Average 280
Tops out at abit over 1200 sometimes
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How are you guys checking your pings? Do you go to Ping Details at the Arena screen?
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thats one way to do it.
another would be to run a specific program designed ot check this stuff out like visual route or pingplotter. or even use good ole windows command prompt of ping or tracert
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(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6145/pingdetails0mf.jpg)
Awesome! :D
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HT, is bullet lethality constant for all sides during a camp or do you all tweak it during the camp (for all or any entity)?
Is bullet lethality ever tweaked (e.g., camp to camp)?
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Originally posted by BTW
HT, is bullet lethality constant for all sides during a camp or do you all tweak it during the camp (for all or any entity)?
Is bullet lethality ever tweaked (e.g., camp to camp)?
yes/no(no)/no(no)
:rolleyes:
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I dont know whats going on but something sure is with the bullets.
've hit planes that shoulda been sure kills at optimum convergence with all guns set to same spot and nothing
Im gonna try uninstalling then reinstalling the game and see if that helps.
Definately something screwy going on though
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I dont know whats going on but something sure is with the bullets.
've hit planes that shoulda been sure kills at optimum convergence with all guns set to same spot and nothing
Im gonna try uninstalling then reinstalling the game and see if that helps.
Definately something screwy going on though
Your bullets sure seemed to be working when you blew my 38G into little pieces tonite :)
Dan/CorkyJr
Not that I didn't get ya back a bit later :)
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Your bullets sure seemed to be working when you blew my 38G into little pieces tonite :)
Dan/CorkyJr
Not that I didn't get ya back a bit later :)
That was the exeption rather then the norm for today.
Terrible terrible day/night I had on top of the rubber bullets.
the rubber bullets just added to it
With you I musta got lucky LOL
Lotsa folks got me back later. Certainly more then Im used to.
Like I said. terrible night. Couldnt fight worth a damn. Couldnt evade worth a damn. And for every kill I got there were 4-5 that I shoulda had but didint.
Much cussing going on in the Dred household tonight. Even the dogs ran and hid LOL
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i havent had this "rubber bullet" thing happen that often, i can only recal one time in h2h land i poured about 50 canon rounds from my corsair into a yak, and he kept going. might have been a server issue. :( :confused:
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>>Much cussing going on in the Dred household tonight. Even the dogs ran and hid LOL<<
Here too. I turned off my mike to mute myself:mad:
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Originally posted by Shane
yes/no(no)/no(no)
:rolleyes:
The reason I ask is I was getting very frustrated as a rook the other night so I jumped over to bish.
As a rook, 6 kills - 6 deaths
As a bish, 9 kills - 0 deaths
I know thats a very small sample and there are a lot of moving parts to this game. I am hoping gun lethality isn't one of them, and thats why I asked.
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Originally posted by BTW
The reason I ask is I was getting very frustrated as a rook the other night so I jumped over to bish.
As a rook, 6 kills - 6 deaths
As a bish, 9 kills - 0 deaths
I know thats a very small sample and there are a lot of moving parts to this game. I am hoping gun lethality isn't one of them, and thats why I asked.
Hmmmm...............
At times it seems like no matter what you do or how much you hit em nadda, but they can put a short burst into you and down you go.
Something I noticed,
is A190 area on trinity map. I flew in that area a couple of days ago. Seemed most strange but when I would get close to A190 I was having problems with hitting. Got very frustrating. But the Rooks where having very little trouble. If they hit you it was lethal.
I logged.
Then the very next day flew in about the same areas as that previous day. Got over to A190 and the SAME thing seemed to happen. Started having problems with getting hits. This time I do remember the ENY limiter was in effect. Actually reached a level that I couldn't fly a G10.
I logged.
Note this all seemed to occur low alt. But also at high alt righ over the base.
Both times seemed to occur also after being online for over 2 hours.
Haven't checked, been too frustrated. Think I may have recorded a fight where I really peppered a KI84's cockpit area at very close range with 109 packing gonds and it just kept flying with what looked like no damage. A little later someone else finally hit it and it went down and I got an assist.
Thing is, earlier, I hit a P51B in what seemed like the same area and the that plane exploded.
Not sure If I've got any idea why it seems to happen or what if anything could be a cause. It's just possible it's me and that I'm just missing. But after you fly in AH for along time and learn the angles and timing and see the hits then these things suddenly seem to change on you, you kinda just know something is not, or at least seems not right. Again maybe it's just me and I fly for too long and start getting sloppy about my aim. Maybe it has to do with my connect decaying after a peroid of time. I just seem to notice a rather sudden change.
Guess I'll go look at my films and see if I had it on and was recording. Maybe I've got a film I can send HTC.
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Originally posted by hitech
Would love to see the film.
HiTech
Got...........
Ran it, it's abit over 17 minutes long.
BTW I'm wrong. I hit it twice, AND was the 1st day the eny limiter was in effect not on the second day.
Having trouble trying to copy just the part where I rake the canopy of the KI84 with mg's and gonds at under 400 yds with my 109g10 and hit the left wing of the same KI84 at just under 400 yds about 20 seconds later.
I copied it but it changes the KI84 into a P51D. Heck seems to change all the planes to P51D's.
Then it started preforming illegal operations and shuts down?????
Do I convert it to avi?
How do I copy only the parts I want????
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This is what I believe. There is luck component to a shot (a shot that hits and flashes) and I think sometimes you feel the bias of the pseudo random function. When it swings your way, you feel your aim and ACM is getting a lot better. When it swings against you, you feel your carotid arteries are clogging up:D
I'm not sure how the luck is introduced (e.g., on a shot by shot basis or the random hardness of plane parts) but I notice it exist even offline, against the drones. Certain drones will seem rock hard and take a *lot* of bullets to explode, and others pop like a balloon. I think the evidence points to a luck component more than changes in the users aim. The drones are fyling pretty straight and the area the user is aiming is a few pixels in the center of the screen. There isnt that much room for deviation.
JMHO
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109G10 with gondolas = 3 20mm's + 2 mg's right at .50 caliber size.
The hub cannon is pretty much centerline.
Right at 400 yds they should be very lethal.
My convergence is set at 450.
at under 400 to about 350 the distance between the 20mm cannon rounds is reducing as it nears it's target. The hub cannon should hit even if the wing gondola cannons miss. This should be the case even with the LW cannon at the ranges listed.
In most cases if you rake the canopy the pilot is wounded. This should be a for sure with the hub cannon.
I've hit several planes in a similar fashion and pulled off and the pilot usually dies within 2 minutes. I have found that VERY rarely with the 109g10 and a canopy rake with all guns on the other plane do they rtb.
I usually aim for the pilot when ever possible.
It's a center of mass thing. I always try to aim for the center of mass on a fighter.
I also try to hit the pilot in buffs. Effective about 30% of the time. That and or the wing root for buffs.
What I really hate is when I've fired at the plane and it seems to fly right through my bullet stream with NO hits whatsoever and this with all 5 guns fireing with what seems like NO or very little affect. I keep trying to get film of this but no luck so far.
Luck thing? Not sure HT has put anything like that into AH.
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Out of disgust and lack of any better ideas to try I uninstalled Redownloaded the game and all the skins and reinstalled.
Huge improvement.
Games alot more fun when the bullets work :)
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Originally posted by Slash27
I never 100% bought into the "rubber bullet" stuff until right after the last patch. I was point blank on a LaLa in a Ki-84 on his 6. Drained my last 20 some odd rounds of 20mm and well over 150 rounds of mg into him with no effect. The problem with the "rubber bullet" syndrome for me is it hasnt been consistant. One thing I did notice last night when I followed Stang into a furball, both of us in Ki 84s. He made a comment on range about the " damn rubber bullets" at the same time I was pooring rounds into a Hog with no effect and thinking the same thing.
I have no film either but Ill work on that.
Not sure if it is RB or the KI. I generally will emty the whole clip on a con 300 or 400 in front of me to get a kill (not always). I noticed that in the DA also in fights with LiamRay. I have noticed two things. The bud guy either lights up like the Chicago sky line and flies away with a fuel lick or no hit sprites. In the case of the no hit sprites, I do get the kill even if someone else finshes the guy off. Before you say it is my aim, I will agree that it does suck but then why do I end up getting the kill or the hit sprites. If I am in a spit, a small burst of 20 rounds will do it.
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Originally posted by dedalos
Not sure if it is RB or the KI. I generally will emty the whole clip on a con 300 or 400 in front of me to get a kill (not always). I noticed that in the DA also in fights with LiamRay. I have noticed two things. The bud guy either lights up like the Chicago sky line and flies away with a fuel lick or no hit sprites. In the case of the no hit sprites, I do get the kill even if someone else finshes the guy off. Before you say it is my aim, I will agree that it does suck but then why do I end up getting the kill or the hit sprites. If I am in a spit, a small burst of 20 rounds will do it.
Might wanna try downloading the latest FULL version, uninstalling AHII and reinstalling with the newest FULL version.
It might fix the rubber bullets.
I have noticed, think I may have already said this in this thread, that if I get anykind of disco, CTD or ... that I'd best uninstall and reinstall to avoid the rubber bullet syndrome.
Not sure why. Think it's my system. But thinking that something with my copy of AHII on my computer gets somehow porked for some reason and doesn't tell the server about all my shots or something?????
The rubber bullet thing is NOT consistant. But with my bad connect (averages 280) it seems to show up for me more then for some???????
Seems when there is more then 450 people on line it gets more pronounced as well?????????????
Also for some reason for the last week or so it seems to show up, at it's worst, on the trinity map when I'm around field A190 ?????????????