Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Scenario General => Topic started by: Brooke on July 10, 2016, 11:25:26 PM
-
Please submit your choice from among the following.
Please choose one battle from among A-D:
A. Battle of Britain. Britain's finest hour, with the Luftwaffe attacking Britain. Plane set: 109E, 110C, He 111, Ju 88, Ju 87 vs. Spit I, Hurri I.
B. Channel Dash. The Kriegsmarine is trying to get Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, and Prinz Eugen to safety. The Luftwaffe puts up a huge moving CAP over the Channel on a day of very low ceilings, and the RAF is trying in force to get to and to sink the ships. Estimated plane set: Spit V, Hurri II, Beaufort, Wellington, Swordfish, 109F, 190A-5, 110C, maybe Ju 88.
C. North Africa. Fights in the desert of North Africa. A very fun plane set and nice change of terrain. Estimated plane set: Spit V, Spit IX, P-38G, P-40, P-39, A-20, B-25, Boston III vs. 109G, 109F, 190A-5, 110C, C.202, Ju 88.
D. Modified D-Day. Like D-Day, but with comparable Luftwaffe opposition. So, D-Day aircraft set on allied side, with period Luftwaffe stuff in equal abundance in opposition. This one is quite fun when we run it as This Day in WWII. Estimated plane set: A-20G, B-25C, C-47, Mosquito VI, P-38J, P-47D-11, P-47D-25, P-51B, Spitfire IX, Typhoon I, B-17G, B-24J, B-26B vs. Bf 109G-2, Bf 109G-6, Bf 110G-2, FW 190A-5, FW 190A-8, FW 190F-8, Ju 88A-4, C-47.
Please choose one format from among 1-3:
1. four frames (like most past Scenarios)
2. one 12-hour frame
3. two 12-hour frames with side switch (one 12-hour frame, then another 12-hour frame 2 weeks later with side switch)
We will go with the battle that gets the most votes and the format that gets the most votes. This is subject to having an appropriate terrain available for AH3 (as I assume AH3 will be released prior to this Scenario). If we can't get the needed terrain, we will adjust as needed.
-
A
2
OH if we are calling DIBS
Then I want III/JG26 or AXIS CO or XO Galland :D
-
A
2
-
I thought ROC would go for the side-switch two 12-hour frames. :noid
-
A
2
With numbers as they are, that has the best chance to create an ongoing fight
Dibs on 602 Squadron RAF 😀
-
A
2
I'll take the Luftwaffe's XO and or just a 109E squadron
:salute
-
C
1
-
C/1
-
D/3
-
B/1
-
:joystick:
D 1
-
A2
-
A
2
I'd also like to claim a 109 E Squadron to command, I throughly enjoyed being the CO during the Dniepper.
-
D1
-
A
2
(luftwafe uber alles)
-
A
2
Wiley.
-
B
2
-
Oh man it is such a tough choice! I wouldn't mind playing all four of them. :D
I love BofB but if I get a chance to fly my beloved Spitfire Mk IX I'm taking it.
C-1
-
I vote for C-1.
I would have to re-up my subscription to play. Which I would for a scenario, assuming it isn't in the middle of the afternoon during fair weather months.
-
Oh man it is such a tough choice! I wouldn't mind playing all four of them. :D
I love BofB but if I get a chance to fly my beloved Spitfire Mk IX I'm taking it.
C-1
We need to put you in a swordfish, so at least you won't shoot down half the axis aircraft.
-
I thought ROC would go for the side-switch two 12-hour frames.
That was my first choice, but I knew no one else would go for that :rofl
-
That was my first choice, but I knew no one else would go for that :rofl
I am with you! :aok
-
Let's put the C2 in C.202
-
C/2
-
C/1 :salute :salute Love the N. Africa setting!!! :salute :salute :salute
-
I change my initial vote to scenario C, format 2. I love the N. Africa setting as well!
Regardless sign me up to command a 109 squadron for which ever scenario is next :aok
-
C
1
-
C -1
-
D 2
-
C 3
-
D 1 please
-
B
1
-
C
2
-
C2
-
A 2
SALUTE!
Newman
-
A 2
SALUTE!
Newman
Holy !@#$! Newman?! How are you? :aok
-
A-2
or C-2 if some armor fights were incorporated between missions
-
D 1
Only ones with Jugs. :evil:
-
C 2
-
or C-2 if some armor fights were incorporated between missions
that too...
-
C 1
-
C, 2.
-
Regarding scoring scenarios and the format with which they are played:
I'm not one to chime in, as I don't have the time to really get into AH like I used to. However, to me I feel that when I sign up for an event like that, I want to get the most out of it. I want to be able to participate, make a difference -- and even if I'm fodder I'm vital to winning the event for our team.
I don't like the 12 hour layout because (for starters) it takes away from my time and my participation. It maybe makes room for others at different times, sure, but I am experiencing less, am not seeing the entire picture (as if I signed up for 4 frames but can't make 2 of them, for example). Also, as it is less sessions, I don't have the option to participate more than once. It's unsatisfying to come into the middle of a 12 hour frame, fly a couple of sorties, then leave and never get to come back to finish it out. Too much of the "story" of the scenario and how it plays out is lost.
Further, I fear there are too many balancing and gameplay problems. Unless you have rigid staggered shifts that will be there on-time, every-time, it will be too much like trying to find a fight in the MWA. Say the bomber squad shows up and no fighters are there -- just a rough example -- then one team can easily steamroll the other. The 12 hour system is significantly harder to regiment than shorter sessions where you can take a break and regroup next weekend.
I'm not saying the 4 weekends method is the best. I simply think the single 12 hour session is too random, too uncontrolled, and too un-scorable. The math becomes herculean and the results 100% subjective because of all the concessions that have to be made. "Well, they were supposed to bomb 5 bases between 2 and 3 pm, but we only had 1 bomber, so let's count the 2 out of 3 bomb hits it dropped as 3/5 of that victory criteria" (to pull a wild example out of my... er... "hat")
Yes, score matters. I have a fairly big issue with scores not being released sometimes for months after a scenario is over. You can try to claim that everybody had fun but it's not the point. You can have fun winning or losing, but the score is important. Otherwise it wouldn't be an event. It would be the MA. Scoring is important and the winners should be celebrated. Promptly. I think most times when the question is raised: "Does anybody even remember who won XYZ? No, because they all had fun so they all win" the problem isn't that scoring doesn't matter but rather that it was hidden in forum posts after the fact and lost to time. Nobody honestly knows the answer!
So, I think the 12 hour system is too flawed and too unstable to track, score, and/or reward the winners properly, and you can't police or enforce it. I think, on top of that, the score is important to motivation, to morale, and shouldn't be downplayed or marginalized in future scenarios. I have a couple of thoughts on that, but I won't get into too much of a tangent.
-
That's a whole lot of text for someone who didnt participate in Target for Today.
-
Yeah Krusty old buddy,Target for Today was absolutely amazing and overall was a great event. I like the 12 hours because it's easier for me to get 1 day off and fly than 4 Saturdays as I always have to work on Saturday. Plus in November (if that's when the event is held) I may not be able to attend hardly any frames due to work. At least with a 12 hour I may get a day off or I can come in later after work and play.
-
That's a whole lot of text for someone who didnt participate in Target for Today.
And? Maybe I couldn't.
EDIT: I *did* say I wasn't one to speak, and started off with that plainly stated. The rest was my opinion on why the 12-hour shift doesn't appeal to me and doesn't work for me.
-
The rest was my opinion on why the 12-hour shift doesn't appeal to me and doesn't work for me.
Ok, so two posts into it and you still haven't voted on a format that does appeal to you.
-
This next Scenario is tentatively scheduled for October.
-
Cough cough....Next scenario that is the 12 hr Battle of Britain in October... Cough cough cough :noid
-
Cough cough....Next scenario that is the 12 hr Battle of Britain in October... Cough cough cough :noid
Yea. Cough cough
-
Cough cough....Next scenario that is the 12 hr Battle of Britain in October... Cough cough cough :noid
Wink,wink. Nudge, nudge. Say no more. :devil
-
And? Maybe I couldn't.
EDIT: I *did* say I wasn't one to speak, and started off with that plainly stated. The rest was my opinion on why the 12-hour shift doesn't appeal to me and doesn't work for me.
Well to answer your concerns, none of what you mention was really ever an issue in TFT. Frame 1 was three airfield targets in relative close position in France, Frames 2 and 3 were Amsterdam and Paris. These coordinated the fight for those 3 four hour periods very well and the Allies planned missions to the hour and executed them very well and it created running fights throughout the day.
The fight was coordinated and the scoring, thanks to ROC, was perfect for the entire event. It was one of the most evenly scored events that I can ever remember and reflected the overall game play. I witnessed the game planning and strategy from the Allied side and it was similar to most every other scenario game planning I have been apart of.
Can it be done again? in AH2 yes. In AH3... Not with the same objectives as we lack the custom mega city strats in AH3. Major scoring changes would need made, not impossible but it would have to be calculated up over again.
I vote for any scenario to be 12 hour format as it is the only time I can commit as a player at the moment with our new baby, if it remains at 2-6PM EST (I say 2PM as I log on early) for 4 Saturdays, I can simply not participate every frame.
As for what historical time frame, I don't care.
-
Wink,wink. Nudge, nudge. Say no more. :devil
A little BoB JG54 in your future? :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Battle%20of%20Britain/iKoE4_zpsf62b34f2.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/Battle%20of%20Britain/iKoE4_zpsf62b34f2.jpg.html)
-
A little BoB JG54 in your future? :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Battle%20of%20Britain/iKoE4_zpsf62b34f2.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/Battle%20of%20Britain/iKoE4_zpsf62b34f2.jpg.html)
You better have me a 109 setup as well! I'll be flying a 109 wether it's Britain or Africa!
-
A little BoB JG54 in your future? :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Battle%20of%20Britain/iKoE4_zpsf62b34f2.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/Battle%20of%20Britain/iKoE4_zpsf62b34f2.jpg.html)
Third Gruppe for me ideally.
(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/32/pics/2_137.jpg)
:devil
-
Third Gruppe for me ideally.
(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/32/pics/2_137.jpg)
:devil
Perfect, except the number needs to be a white 13 with "Zoney" stenciled on it.
Bring on the 12 hour BOB. Wooooohoooooooooooooooooooooo oo!
Luftwaffe uber alles!
-
Those pics are very cool guys.
-
(https://w-dog.net/wallpapers/8/3/432407197635246/picture-plane-me-109-bf-109-e-4-emil-emil-messerschmitt-messerschmitt-luftwaffe-luftwaffe-geschwaderkommodore-jg26-schlageter-26-th-fighter-squadron-schlageter-world.jpg)
Luftwaffe uber alles!
-
(https://w-dog.net/wallpapers/8/3/432407197635246/picture-plane-me-109-bf-109-e-4-emil-emil-messerschmitt-messerschmitt-luftwaffe-luftwaffe-geschwaderkommodore-jg26-schlageter-26-th-fighter-squadron-schlageter-world.jpg)
Luftwaffe uber alles!
Please, on the lead 109, what is that sticking out through the windscreen in front?
-
His zoom toggle :rofl
-
It is what it looks like: magnifying target scope. Galland had one installed on that machine.
I'm not sure if it replaced the reflector sight or mounted beside it on this aircraft.
-
Chaps,
You may want to bring extra water to the next scenario as the count so far places the next scenario in the great "Sahara Desert".
(http://www.332ndfg.org/CurtCount.PNG)
Hey! You still get a 109. They'll just look like this;
(http://www.332ndfg.org/JG27Tunisia1943.png)
JG/27, Tunisia 1943
Dan,
Do you have any of these in your profile kit?
(http://www.332ndfg.org/P-40F-325th.png)
-
Third Gruppe for me ideally.
(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/32/pics/2_137.jpg)
:devil
More like so? I'm partial to II/JG 54 myself having been GL of them in both an Airwarrior BoB and an AH BoB😀 If BoB is run and I get a Spit squadron it would be the third time for 602 squadron
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Battle%20of%20Britain/Phan2_zps7101b542.jpg)
My last 602 Spit 😀
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/602%20Squadron/LOCorky_zps664c5157.jpg)
-
C-1 with tanks!! and DIBS on a P-40 squadron!!
So excited!!! This will be my first AH event since i've been deployed!! :banana:
-
Chaps,
You may want to bring extra water to the next scenario as the count so far places the next scenario in the great "Sahara Desert".
(http://www.332ndfg.org/CurtCount.PNG)
Hey! You still get a 109. They'll just look like this;
(http://www.332ndfg.org/JG27Tunisia1943.png)
JG/27, Tunisia 1943
Dan,
Do you have any of these in your profile kit?
(http://www.332ndfg.org/P-40F-325th.png)
Nope, outside of Tropical Spit Vs. I have 109E's but that's the only LW bird I've ever done as I really like the look of the Emil. I did this one long ago, probably a dozen years ago at least.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Pedestal/109E7TropLastUpdate_zps8og0v7pf.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/Pedestal/109E7TropLastUpdate_zps8og0v7pf.jpg.html)
If that's the way we go, then dibs on 417 Squadron RCAF. I got this poster in 1980 in England and it's been framed on the wall ever since in my room, then my oldest son's room and now Matthew's room :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Pedestal/417SpitV_zps0925f59a.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/Pedestal/417SpitV_zps0925f59a.jpg.html)
-
Nice profile on that tropical Emil. Did you know that the spinner was yellow on the real plane?
I did a skin of this plane but submitted the yellow nosed trop instead.
-
Nice profile on that tropical Emil. Did you know that the spinner was yellow on the real plane?
I did a skin of this plane but submitted the yellow nosed trop instead.
At the time I did it, I was eyeballing it. I hadn't dug in to RLM colors etc. So it's an old best effort :) I was teaching myself how to do the profiles in Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop so a lot of it was guess my best. If I were to redo it, I'd hit the RLM color charts better and the resources. I have lots of the books on the Emil paint schemes as I really like that kite. The ones I did for the last B of B were done with correct colors
I'm ready now. When do we fly this Desert airwar? :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Pedestal/Corky417_zpsswj2mjce.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/Pedestal/Corky417_zpsswj2mjce.jpg.html)
-
Still the colors you used were close enough to the RLM standards. I would have lightened the sand color nyself, but some 109's had a darker tone.
Remember to cross reference your color selections. there are plenty of variations in sources claiming correct RLM matches.
-
505 the books I really relied on are the ones by Eric Mombeek. I have all the ones that covered the invasion of France, the B of B period and into the Balkans as they cover the Emil really well.
I'm ready to keep Beefcake happy too. I know he's never met a B-25 he didn't like
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/guppy35012/Mitchell-II-Temp-Converted_zpstq7pbdkt.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/guppy35012/Mitchell-II-Temp-Converted_zpstq7pbdkt.jpg.html)
-
OK so it's a bit early, but anything to help the mood.
If Bruv is going to take the Spit IXs it would have to be the Polish Fighting Team and their IXs.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Pedestal/Spit-IX-PFT_zpsn0xbcsim.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/Pedestal/Spit-IX-PFT_zpsn0xbcsim.jpg.html)
-
D, 2
-
I flew this P-40E model in the Dawn of Battle scenario.
(http://332ndfg.org/P-40E_Profile.PNG)
It was a WEP powered P-40E. HTC has since taken the WEP away and placed it in the P-40F where it belongs.
Dan,
I am investing in your enterprise. If there are profiles that you need for the event. I'd like to help you get those for your collection. So... What do you need?
P-38G ?
P-39D ?
A-20/Boston ?
:salute
-
It's more a matter of making the time to create a template Red. Once they decide which it is, I'll see what I have time for. I'm assuming you'd like a good P40F model? 😀
-
It's more a matter of making the time to create a template Red. Once they decide which it is, I'll see what I have time for. I'm assuming you'd like a good P40F model? 😀
Dan,
I have seen you do this in more than a few scenarios now. I am hoping we can work together on it. I'll follow your methodology for design and delivery. This is too much fun not to share and have our side enjoy.
Right down to the kill marks. :D :aok
Give it some thought...
btw... Yes, P-40F most likely the 33rd FG or 57th FG.
:salute
-
A 2 please!!!
<S>
-
Dan,
I have seen you do this in more than a few scenarios now. I am hoping we can work together on it. I'll follow your methodology for design and delivery. This is too much fun not to share and have our side enjoy.
Right down to the kill marks. :D :aok
Give it some thought...
btw... Yes, P-40F most likely the 33rd FG or 57th FG.
:salute
OK Red, I'm making a preemptive strike in this. Since it looks like North Africa and I have til October, I've got time to get the templates done. Figuring Spit Vs and IX (early), P40E, F, P39D, P38G, B-25s and A20s. Started pulling together what I need to get them done. Since I have templates for the Spits and 25 it's not that much and I need a history project :)
-
OK Red, I'm making a preemptive strike in this. Since it looks like North Africa and I have til October, I've got time to get the templates done. Figuring Spit Vs and IX (early), P40E, F, P39D, P38G, B-25s and A20s. Started pulling together what I need to get them done. Since I have templates for the Spits and 25 it's not that much and I need a history project :)
Could you make me a 109 profile :D
-
So how long does the voting go?
-
My vote
C3
-
The final tally:
A: 10
B: 3
C: 19
D: 7
1: 15
2: 21
3: 3
And the winner is:
North Africa, one 12-hour frame
The one caveat is that, if there are any insurmountable problems with Tunisia terrain, we'll go with 2nd choice, which is Battle of Britain.
Thank you, folks, for your votes! :aok
-
The final tally:
A: 10
B: 3
C: 19
D: 7
1: 15
2: 21
3: 3
And the winner is:
North Africa, one 12-hour frame
The one caveat is that, if there are any insurmountable problems with Tunisia terrain, we'll go with 2nd choice, which is Battle of Britain.
Thank you, folks, for your votes! :aok
Dibs on a 109 F Squadron!!!
-
Since it's already been brought up here's my take on the 12 hour vs multi day events. I prefer the multi frame events because it allows everyone to learn from frame to frame and discuss/adjust strategies/tactics. It also allows for after frame recognition. Finally, "leave them wanting more".
I flew in TFT for the second half of the event because that's all of it I could make. I left unsatisfied. It didn't feel like an event to me, it felt like a gaming session.
That's my opinion. Take it or leave it.
-
I, too, prefer more than one day. Before the voting, I figured two 12-hour frames might have a shot. After all, if one is good, why not two? But, alas, that one had no appeal.
-
I'm concerned with the ageing player base sat infront of the computer screen for 12 hours.
Risks like DVT, migraines, cramp, poor eyes etc etc.
Even a middle aged, fit, good looking, killing machine like myself, can only handle 3 hours at a time before I get a little cranky.
I agree with BE that it takes the shine off what a scenario is for me with the thought/planning etc.
Not to mention the missus will :uhoh when I say honey I can't help because I'm playing AH for 12 HOURS straight. But if it's what the majority want then democracy reigns supreme.
-
B, as Winston said; "the biggest argument against democracy is talking to the average electorate".
Have you spoken to these people?! :banana:
-
The twelve hour concept is interesting and was nice to have explored. But, endurance is going a big issue.
I got up to take a break after almost eight hours of flying and fighting on TFT and fell hard asleep on the couch. I didn't wake until the next morning.
I would love to GL in this event, but it would be better for a player that feels they can make the entire twelve hours to lead and ensure plans are executed properly.
I will have eclipsed the half century mark while this event is going on or there bouts, depending on the scheduled day of the event, so sit, stare, and focus performance doesn't increase with age as Bruv eluded to.
I'll likely only fly three or four hours worth of this.
I think that is reasonable amount of time.
btw, I would miss the immersion of the AARs, the threads with battles pics, the many planes reports and planning for the next weekend. A couple of hours over a few weekends has been good for the last 16 years or so. Why change now?
-
A couple of hours over a few weekends has been good for the last 16 years or so. Why change now?
My answer to your question is the reason I voted for a 12 hour format, because I work Saturday's. I cannot possibly get more than one of those off in a month. The 12 hour format therefore allows me to play the entire event. The last scenario event I got one of the Saturday's off and enjoyed it.
-
My answer to your question is the reason I voted for a 12 hour format, because I work Saturday's. I cannot possibly get more than one of those off in a month. The 12 hour format therefore allows me to play the entire event. The last scenario event I got one of the Saturday's off and enjoyed it.
Same here, especially late in the year as I have Christmas Parades to cover during November so I usually can't attend during that month. A single 12 hour is easier to contend with than a whole month.
-
A
2
-
The twelve hour concept is interesting and was nice to have explored. But, endurance is going a big issue.
I got up to take a break after almost eight hours of flying and fighting on TFT and fell hard asleep on the couch. I didn't wake until the next morning.
I would love to GL in this event, but it would be better for a player that feels they can make the entire twelve hours to lead and ensure plans are executed properly.
I will have eclipsed the half century mark while this event is going on or there bouts, depending on the scheduled day of the event, so sit, stare, and focus performance doesn't increase with age as Bruv eluded to.
I'll likely only fly three or four hours worth of this.
I think that is reasonable amount of time.
btw, I would miss the immersion of the AARs, the threads with battles pics, the many planes reports and planning for the next weekend. A couple of hours over a few weekends has been good for the last 16 years or so. Why change now?
I'm with ya Red. Problem is I don't see nearly as many folks interested in the immersive part scenarios can offer. Obviously that's a huge part for me, but it seems like folks prefer to just fly the event now. I've always seen scenarios as a time to fly with a new mix of folks in a scenario squad. More often than not the same guys want to fly with their MA squad buddies. The identity in the scenario is the MA squad not getting invested in the history of the WW2 group they are representing. I'd love to figure out a way to get that back
-
I'm with ya Red. Problem is I don't see nearly as many folks interested in the immersive part scenarios can offer. Obviously that's a huge part for me, but it seems like folks prefer to just fly the event now. I've always seen scenarios as a time to fly with a new mix of folks in a scenario squad. More often than not the same guys want to fly with their MA squad buddies. The identity in the scenario is the MA squad not getting invested in the history of the WW2 group they are representing. I'd love to figure out a way to get that back
Dan,
For that short period of time. It is the world we create that gets folks immersed. The HQ threads, group threads, the stories, the orders, the awards, AARs with pictures, and the aircraft profiles :aok it all just makes the event for me. It would be akin actually deploying an entire Air Force to the field. The Luftwaffe side of BoB 2013 was the best I've seen so far and we won to boot, that was exciting. :D Then there would be Red Storm Krupp Steel on the Luftwaffe side, miserable loss :cry. Last but not least would be DSG II on the USAAF side, not sure again how we lost that one. :headscratch: Great immersion in all of them. I'd like to think it brought the teams closer together.
But I tell yah... I probably enjoy creating the environments way more than people appreciate them being created. But the simple truth is, it's for me and those that would dare to enjoy it. Whether they attempt to connect with history or not, I know that I will. Researching the history and sharing it in pictures and stories and technical data. That is part about scenario I love the most. Folks that just want to fly and fight, that's just fine. :azn:
But if I ever CO another scenario, you can guarantee, that the halls will be decked.
:salute
-
I'm with ya Red. Problem is I don't see nearly as many folks interested in the immersive part scenarios can offer. Obviously that's a huge part for me, but it seems like folks prefer to just fly the event now. I've always seen scenarios as a time to fly with a new mix of folks in a scenario squad. More often than not the same guys want to fly with their MA squad buddies. The identity in the scenario is the MA squad not getting invested in the history of the WW2 group they are representing. I'd love to figure out a way to get that back
Just to get that immersion back, I might fly allies with you Dan. Always talked about flying with ya, and here's my chance :aok
-
One 12-hour format won this voting. Traditional 4-frame wasn't too far behind, though.
Since this one is 12-hour, for the Scenario after this one, we will do a 4-frame.
-
Dan,
For that short period of time. It is the world we create that gets folks immersed. The HQ threads, group threads, the stories, the orders, the awards, AARs with pictures, and the aircraft profiles :aok it all just makes the event for me. It would be akin actually deploying an entire Air Force to the field. The Luftwaffe side of BoB 2013 was the best I've seen so far and we won to boot, that was exciting. :D Then there would be Red Storm Krupp Steel on the Luftwaffe side, miserable loss :cry. Last but not least would be DSG II on the USAAF side, not sure again how we lost that one. :headscratch: Great immersion in all of them. I'd like to think it brought the teams closer together.
But I tell yah... I probably enjoy creating the environments way more than people appreciate them being created. But the simple truth is, it's for me and those that would dare to enjoy it. Whether they attempt to connect with history or not, I know that I will. Researching the history and sharing it in pictures and stories and technical data. That is part about scenario I love the most. Folks that just want to fly and fight, that's just fine. :azn:
But if I ever CO another scenario, you can guarantee, that the halls will be decked.
:salute
I'd be lying if I said DGS II wasn't my favorite for that reason, but obviously I poured everything I had into that one. And no doubt when the opportunity arises I'll keep doing my bit👍
-
One 12-hour format won this voting. Traditional 4-frame wasn't too far behind, though.
Since this one is 12-hour, for the Scenario after this one, we will do a 4-frame.
Just not in JUNE!
-
Just to get that immersion back, I might fly allies with you Dan. Always talked about flying with ya, and here's my chance :aok
"B",
You're kinda wishy washy aren't yah? :headscratch:
-
"B",
You're kinda wishy washy aren't yah? :headscratch:
I know I know! It's a difficult choice. My favorite plane, or my allied friends who get the immersion rolling. Tis a difficult choice.
-
One 12-hour format won this voting. Traditional 4-frame wasn't too far behind, though.
Since this one is 12-hour, for the Scenario after this one, we will do a 4-frame.
cant argue with this mans sound logic and reason. Will be interesting to see how the 12 hour breakdown will work in N.Africa. Some sort of el alamein with a gv capture target?
-
So the voting was open for only 1 week and you get 39 people to vote. This is what you are going to base the next scenario on?
Seems like you guys wanted a certain format and the other option was getting too close for comfort.
Well good luck.
-
No one wanted to do a 12 hour Battle of Britain with me :(
Instead they will do a 12 hour Battle in North Africa :bolt:
-
109F for me :lol
-
Allied guys do not like it when they have an even match in aircraft.... :bolt:
-
Allied guys do not like it when they have an even match in aircraft.... :bolt:
I wouldn't call it even until I see the fighter force dispersement.
-
An alternative to the D-day scenario is Dieppe -42, Spit V and a few spit 9:s vs fw 190. Can throw in the 109F to make it more fun.
-
Frodo, before you read any of the following, know that I do hope you fly in it. Even if it isn't your first choice, it can be fun, and I hope you are there. :aok
OK, now on to particulars.
So the voting was open for only 1 week and you get 39 people to vote. This is what you are going to base the next scenario on?
That's only part of it.
Prior to this, we had a lengthy discussion of the whole universe of possibilities, allowed any suggestion, collected up 17 different battle formats, then voted to narrow it down to 4 from among the 17. That discussion was here:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,379992.0.html
The voting process overall was open for three weeks with this being only the tail end of it, and I sent out e-mails to attendees of Scenarios telling them about the final voting.
I can't use more time than this because I have three months between running of Scenarios, where we need at the very least 1 month for design and 1 month for recruiting (and preferably more). There is a schedule; we have to get on with it; and I did my best to let people know if they wanted to participate.
Seems like you guys wanted a certain format and the other option was getting too close for comfort.
There is no "you guys" in charge. There is one Scenario CM -- me. If I were deciding it on my own, it wouldn't be one frame, and you can see my failed suggestions for theme of the battle in the topic referenced above.
Instead of me deciding, I opened it up to all suggestions and let everyone vote, and I had the whole process take up a few weeks (which is about the most that can be devoted to it).
I don't think it can't get much more fair, open, and inclusive than that.
So, it isn't you first choice, but please do fly with us. I think you can still have a lot of fun, and folks like me will be glad if you are in it. :aok
-
I wouldn't call it even until I see the fighter force dispersement.
Bruv gets a Storch.
-
No way, I'm spit 9 G/L if dolby gets a 109F. This is called country balancing :aok
-
No way, I'm spit 9 G/L if dolby gets a 109F. This is called country balancing :aok
You mean Spit5
-
Brooke, I've mentioned it before - why not have a 12 hour frame during a conventional multiple frame scenario? The game as a whole and events in particular are struggling with lack of players. I think there needs to be an effort to have events available to the maximum amount of players.
While both being labeled "scenarios" the 4-frame and 12-hour formats each have strong merits and equally strong criticisms, I do not see any tangible conflict in having both. This way we can have maximum participation while maintaining long term immersion and team building.
-
Damn, was getting my hopes too. Oh well, not worth resubbing for a one day event. Guess this game just keeps evolving outside of anything I consider interesting. :(
-
3x 3hr ending in one 12hr?? :devil
-
Frodo, before you read any of the following, know that I do hope you fly in it. Even if it isn't your first choice, it can be fun, and I hope you are there. :aok
OK, now on to particulars.
That's only part of it.
Prior to this, we had a lengthy discussion of the whole universe of possibilities, allowed any suggestion, collected up 17 different battle formats, then voted to narrow it down to 4 from among the 17. That discussion was here:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,379992.0.html
The voting process overall was open for three weeks with this being only the tail end of it, and I sent out e-mails to attendees of Scenarios telling them about the final voting.
I can't use more time than this because I have three months between running of Scenarios, where we need at the very least 1 month for design and 1 month for recruiting (and preferably more). There is a schedule; we have to get on with it; and I did my best to let people know if they wanted to participate.
There is no "you guys" in charge. There is one Scenario CM -- me. If I were deciding it on my own, it wouldn't be one frame, and you can see my failed suggestions for theme of the battle in the topic referenced above.
Instead of me deciding, I opened it up to all suggestions and let everyone vote, and I had the whole process take up a few weeks (which is about the most that can be devoted to it).
I don't think it can't get much more fair, open, and inclusive than that.
So, it isn't you first choice, but please do fly with us. I think you can still have a lot of fun, and folks like me will be glad if you are in it. :aok
I read the discussion thread you referenced and posted in it and voted. A lot of people did not and the voting thread got some attention from the base but was not left up long enough in my opinion. How was the process open for 3 weeks? I guess you are including the discussion thread as part of that? A lot of players didn't pay attention until you put it up for an official vote. Saying you had it up for a vote for multiple weeks is a stretch to fit your argument it seems. You even point to the vote tally in the one voting thread as the basis for the decision, nothing about other threads.
And no the 12 hr. is not my first choice. I can't sit there for a 12 hr scenario and have the same concerns as Krusty and a lot of others have voiced. At best I would get 1 frame of a 12 hr scenario as opposed to maybe 4 frames of a regular scenario.
What was the name of the 12 hr scenario you ran? If I remember the numbers were dismal for it also. Just seems nothing is being done to try to increase numbers. Just the same old thing expecting different results.
-
I read the discussion thread you referenced and posted in it and voted. A lot of people did not and the voting thread got some attention from the base but was not left up long enough in my opinion. How was the process open for 3 weeks? I guess you are including the discussion thread as part of that? A lot of players didn't pay attention until you put it up for an official vote. Saying you had it up for a vote for multiple weeks is a stretch to fit your argument it seems.
And no the 12 hr. is not my first choice. I can't sit there for a 12 hr scenario and have the same concerns as Krusty and a lot of others have voiced. At best I would get 1 frame of a 12 hr scenario as opposed to maybe 4 frames of a regular scenario.
What was the name of the 12 hr scenario you ran? If I remember the numbers were dismal for it also. Just seems nothing is being done to try to increase numbers. Just the same old thing expecting different results.
Target for Today was the name and it was Nefarious that ran it...
Snailman did a chart on the participation of the 12 hour scenario and it was more than the last like 5 scenarios combined or some such thing...
No one is asking for you or anyone for that matter to sit for the entire 12 hours...now the scenario CMs will ask that the group leads and the CICs for each side to probably try to be there the entire time...but that's even a stretch...hell Devil and I rode out the whole 12 hour scenario and didn't have to sit for the entire 12 hours...with flight opening once an hour we did sorties that lasted through the flight opening and got killed right after the window closed...gave us a good 45 min or better to stretch legs, eat or whatever....
For those of you that did not participate in the scenario Target for Today....why don't you not comment about what it was like or it's downfalls or shortcomings...and Frodo I'm not talking to you at all saying this...
Target for Today was THE most fun I have had in a scenario yet...it was a total blast from start to finish....I've never seen a bomber group as big as the one that we came across about half way through the scenario...
Y'all can hate on the 12 hour idea all you want...but I have a funny feeling it wouldn't matter if it was a 12 hour scenario or a traditional 4 frame you wouldn't show up...
-
A lot of players didn't pay attention until you put it up for an official vote.
Then for those people, they had a full week to make a vote that they knew was coming. As I said, regardless, that's the time we had available, because everything has to fit in. Prior to the previous Scenario, there was no voting at all.
And no the 12 hr. is not my first choice. I can't ...
Whatever you do in a Scenario, unfortunately, there will be some people who can't make the time, can't commit to that particular span, can't do those particular dates, etc. That's why I vary things -- so that I can give other preferences their day. I put format up to a vote. 12-hour won. Next one will be 4-frame (and then unfortunately a different set of people won't like it or can't do it).
What was the name of the 12 hr scenario you ran? If I remember the numbers were dismal for it also. Just seems nothing is being done to try to increase numbers. Just the same old thing expecting different results.
I didn't run it, but it was called "Target For Today". Below are stats on all Scenarios back to 2004, which are at odds with your recollection. Also, the whole reason for trying 12-hour is to try some new things.
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/misc/aces_high/scenarioPlayerNumbers201607.png)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/misc/aces_high/scenarioRatings201607.png)
I don't think most people are planning to play the whole 12 hours of the frame. They are planning to play the several hours of it that fits best with their schedules. I hope that you will fly the hours that fit with your schedule. :aok
-
By the way, for the scientifically inclined out there, average player numbers for Target for Today (one 12-hour frame) and the various 4-frame scenarios are not exactly the same statistic in the following way. The way I create these statistics is to look at the "players" stat in the log for each frame, and take the average over all frames.
In the case of the one 12-hour frame, I am getting the total number of players who took off at least once in that single frame.
In the case of the 4-frame events, I am getting the average number of players who took off at least once. The total number of players who took off at least once would be greater than the average but not as large as four times the average. It is greater than the average because the exact same set of players will not be present each frame -- some new players will be coming in from time to time while some former players are not in that frame. It is not equal to four times the average, though, because not *all* players are different frame to frame. However, I would not be surprised if the total number of players in a 4-frame event were 1.5 times the average.
So, if you want to compare a single 12-hour frame to multi-frame events in participation, you need to multiply the multi-frame average participation by a factor, perhaps something like 1.5.
-
3x 3hr ending in one 12hr?? :devil
I think it would be easier on the planning staffs to have the 12Hr be the first, but having it last might cure the typical final frame population lull.
-
I understand the motivation for 12-hour plus other frames.
I do very much like things to be more than one day, but I'm not in favor of a mixed format. The reason is that it would take twice the design work. Best is to have M N-hour frames, where folks can pick M and N, but N is the same for all M frames.
-
Thanks for the stats Brooke.
I was basing what I remember on how many players are in the arena to fight against in a scenario. Yes it is hard to compare a 1 day 12 hr one to a 4 day. But the 12 hr. was a little less or roughly the same as the numbers the scenarios have been drawing per frame?
Puller I don't have your crystal ball but I think a lot of players would love to fly a scenario again. But a lot don't want to fly one with 30-40 players per side at best. It is hardly worth the time.
My main point is try something like a Sat. night scenario. If the same effort was put into it that was put into the last scenario, I bet you could double the numbers.
Anyway my 2 cents worth and I hope something else will be tried in the future. :cheers:
-
Motivated COs and GLs is the best bet to getting better numbers. But it means beating the bushes, on the part of the GLs to get commitments from players to participate and to work hard to give those same players a reason to want to.
I didn't GL in the last one. My original GL disappeared without comment. His XO did his best, but by frame 4 it was me and three walkons. If we hope to get old timers back we need to give them a reason to want to show up and that's where the GLs and the command guys make a difference. Do I think we can get 300? Not with the numbers overall in game, but I think if enough folks who believe in these things were willing to go the extra mile we could do a lot better.
-
The best way to get people to play is for every player to be recruiting and for squads to get into the action.
If you are in a squad and want to help, it is your job to get your squad into it.
If you are not in a squad and want to help, it is your job to recruit people you know.
Scenarios are currently pulling a similar percentage of players as before, but from a smaller player base. For example, in the days of 600 players in the MA, Scenarios were pulling about 175 players (or about 30%). Recently, I took a look at how many were in the MA when we were pulling 75 players into a Scenario -- the MA at prime-time Saturday then was about 200 (so we were at about 38%).
To get more players into Scenarios is work that must be done by the whole community -- it can't be done by me and a few others on the community's behalf. We don't have enough reach to personally interact with all players, which is what it takes.
-
Thanks for the stats Brooke.
...
Anyway my 2 cents worth and I hope something else will be tried in the future. :cheers:
You are welcome, and it will be. :aok
Can we count on you to fly a few hours in North Africa in October? :aok <S>!
-
Daytime hours in October I doubt it unless the weather is brutal. The last frame of the 12 hr event will even be tough but I will wait and see.
-
3x 3hr ending in one 12hr?? :devil
I'd buy that for a dollar! :rock
-
but having it last might cure the typical final frame population lull.
^^^
This is a very good idea for a future event Devil. 3 Frames standard, one 12 hour final frame to wrap it up.
-
When I divide the 12hour scenario by 4 (to make it even with the normal scenarios Per frame) I don't get very good numbers
-
^^^
This is a very good idea for a future event Devil. 3 Frames standard, one 12 hour final frame to wrap it up.
I like that too!
-
When I divide the 12hour scenario by 4 (to make it even with the normal scenarios Per frame) I don't get very good numbers
There were far, far more people who sat through the entire event than Nef and I ever expected. That radically sways the divide by 4 comparison.
-
What is the number that sat through the whole event?
-
What is the number that sat through the whole event?
I had two in my group including myself fly from start to finish. A couple others in my group lasted 11 of the twelve.
-
Since I was Allied Bomber CO I stayed the whole event and had several bomber pilots fly the whole thing.
-
I enjoyed that last 12 hr run...... Think I did 10 or 11 hours before the cognac kicked in:)
Let me know where I am needed. I will fly either side in a fighter.
-
I enjoyed that last 12 hr run...... Think I did 10 or 11 hours before the cognac kicked in:)
Let me know where I am needed. I will fly either side in a fighter.
I know where you'll be needed! :)
-
I look forward to flying with you again!
How you put up with my act is beyond me:)
:salute
-
The topic for discussion of design is now open here:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,380419.0.html