Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: MarkVZ on March 25, 2000, 11:10:00 AM
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I came across an interesting plane while digging through some Luftwaffe pages. The TA-154 "Moskito" has impressive performance figures and it looks like it would be a nice ride for the LW pilots of Aces High (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I know it didn't see much service in the Luftwaffe, but then again the N1K didn't see much service either. I think this planes performance would make it competitive in the current latewar planeset. It would give the LW pilots something to fight the dreaded fork-tailed devil with (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://www.unsere-luftwaffe.de/archiv/jagdflz/ta_154.jpg)
(http://www.unsere-luftwaffe.de/archiv/jagdflz/ta154.jpg)
(http://www.unsere-luftwaffe.de/archiv/jagdflz/ta154_a.gif)
Maximum speed: 670km/h (416mph)
Service Ceiling: 11,000m (36,090ft)
Range: 900km (559 Miles)
Armament: Four MK108 and two 20mm MG/FF
Empty: 1810kg (3,990lbs.)
Maximum Loaded: 2500kg (5,512lbs.)
Span: 16.00m
Length: 12.56m
Height: 3.60m
Engines: 2 Junkers Jumo inverted-vee-12 liquid-cooled
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Mark VanZwoll
33rd Strike Group
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Those weights have got to be wrong. I don't have much info on the 154, but I thought it never got into service at all.
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Ta154 was an impressive night fighter used to hunt and kill Mosquito and P61 marauders at night. Its performance was better than British's Mosquito (not by much,though). It saw limited action in WWII.
Its main problem was that was wooden-builded. A serious defect with the adhesive used in it,made the plane prone to structure weakness . The plane was more time grounded in inspections that airborne.
As far as I know Ta154 was never used as day fighter. Its environment was night fighting. When (if) this kind of fighting comes into AH ,then I find it interesting. If not, Ta154 has no place between day fighters.
In fact I believe that a Me410, or even a Me110G is more needed right now. In Zerstorer A-G or anti-buff missions can be really feared planes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 03-25-2000).]
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Even if it only did see service at night, I think it would be a hot ride for the LW pilots, and something to counter the new 38. It would be better than introducing a 110 in my opinion, because no sim has ever seen the TA-154. I think after we get all these unique planes, then we should fill in the planeset with the nore normal planes. People seeing a 205 or B26 are going to be more excited to try these new birds out than the standard old Zero, B25, etc.
I also would love to see a P-61 here sometime, it's one of my favorite planes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
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Mark VanZwoll
33rd Strike Group
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Rare planes are cool, just dont know about this one...I wouldnt want to take my chances against a 38 in one of those...
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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew
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Ta 152:
Engines: Two Junkers Jumo 213E, 1,750 hp
Armament: Two 20-mm, MG 151 w/200 rpg, and two 30-mm MK 108 w/110 rpg
Performance: 404 mph at 23,250 ft
Weight: 19,687, max 21,050 lbs
Time to 26, 965 ft: 14.5 minutes
Service ceiling: 35,760 ft
oops!
Total production less than 20.
All taken from Warplanes of the Third Reich, William Green
[This message has been edited by Kieren (edited 03-25-2000).]
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Kieren...thats TA154C...Ta154A series had more numbers built. (though I dont know exactly how much)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 03-25-2000).]
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The performance depends which Mosquito you are comparing it with. The NF XXX, introduced 1944, had a top speed of 424mph with full electronic kit.
I think night fighting would be cool, and something that would attract new players. How many other sims offer it?
[This message has been edited by Nashwan (edited 03-25-2000).]
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Would anyone really want Ta 154 to enter AH before many many other planes ? Not likely, I think.
If we would have to choose among similar LW planes, I’d vote for He 219 or Me 410. Both planes might be fun indeed, of course, if you don’t expect miracles out of them (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
However, why doesn't HTC take the same priority the Luftwaffe had in 1944: build as many 262s and Doras as possible !
[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 03-25-2000).]
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Nope. 7 prototypes, 7 production A's. 6 more partially completed A's were completed as explosive carriers. Sorry, this is all I can verify. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
I think it is an interesting fighter concept, but would rather see something like the Fw 187.... now there is a pretty twin!
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Seen a show on TA 154..
They thought the Mossie was great fast plane made of wood,so the Germans came up with a similar design. The problem was the glue the Germans were using to hold this thing together. After a few flights it would fall apart. Ive got more info on it at home. Will post specs after work..
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Kieren, you seen the write up on it in Planes of fame? Your right very slick looking plane.
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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew
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Mark, Comparing a George to a Ta 154 is ridiculous.
Over 400 N1K2-J were used in combat in the last year of the war.
Only 22 Ta 154's were built (7 Prototypes, 8 Pre-Production Ta 154A-0, and 7 Ta 154A-1). None of them reached combat units or saw combat.
The Ta 154C was never built.
It's a neat design, but a fantasy plane that probably doesn't belong here.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 03-25-2000).]
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FWIW, the Fw187 never saw production, and I'm not advocating getting one.
I just think it's pretty. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Hi all
I remember reading somewhere that when they did get close to getting the glue correct for the plane to actually stay in one piece, an allied bombing run bombed the wrong target, but later they found out they actually took out the entire glue factory! Probably why it took even longer to get many numbers of this aircraft.
'Nexx'
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Ironicly, the Allied bombers that did that were wooden British Mosquitos. In immitation of which the German plane had been built. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Sisu
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Interesting posts guys, thanks for setting me straight on the TA-154 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) It looked like it would have performed well had it been glued together properly (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
For those wondering what the FW-187 looks like, (From Kieren's post) here's a few pics:
(http://www.unsere-luftwaffe.de/archiv/jagdflz/fw1873.jpg)
(http://www.unsere-luftwaffe.de/archiv/jagdflz/fw187_5.jpg)
I pulled these photos from a really nice Luftwaffe page at: http://www.unsere-luftwaffe.de (http://www.unsere-luftwaffe.de)
Check it out, lots of great info and pics (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mark VanZwoll
33rd Strike Group
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Yeah the Fw 187 was a sweety, Would have been a much better choice than the Me 110 but the guys in charge of aircraft production for the Luftwaffe weren't exactly Einsteins...
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Hmmmmm I must correct myself. I found this information. "Some of the Ta 154A-1s built in Cottbus were evaluated by a night-fighter wing stationed in Stade."
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Originally posted by funked:
Hmmmmm I must correct myself. I found this information. "Some of the Ta 154A-1s built in Cottbus were evaluated by a night-fighter wing stationed in Stade."
Yes,funked...thats why I said that Ta154 saw "limited action" in WWII. It never saw combat, though (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). One Ta154A reached NJG-1 in July 1944 to make some preproduction tests. There were more units delivered to other Geschwaders, but that was the first one. The problems with the glue adhesives were noticed from the very start and the aircraft was soon grounded until a proper glue could be used...the rest of the story has been yet told (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I too would love to see one of the heavily armed German "Zeroester" concept fighters in AH, but I believe my preference would be the Me410 or the Hs129.
Talk about vulching machines (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Yes RAM there were only 7 A-1's built. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by funked:
Yes RAM there were only 7 A-1's built. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Well I used to believe there were more...see this link:
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/ta154bar.html (http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/ta154bar.html)
QUOTE:
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Production was envisaged at 250 airframes per month but only a limited number were built which did not amount to much over 50 aircraft. This figures include twelve test aeroplanes, five incomplete fuselages and several other prototypes under construction.
I believe that the 7 A-1 numbers u are giving is the true number of planes that REACHED front line units...seems there were more built (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 03-26-2000).]
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Originally posted by RAM:
In fact I believe that a Me410, or even a Me110G is more needed right now. In Zerstorer A-G or anti-buff missions can be really feared planes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
If Me110 or Me410 ever gets up to +35k where buffs flies, unrealistically.
It's funny that B-17 flies higher than any LW plane is able to, but few allie planes does it fine.
109 models in AH for high altitude are terrible, also fuel runs out alot earlier than in spitfrie for example.
Fw190 barely even gets that high until buff has already dropped bombs and already nearby home. Not to talk about it's gas load also..
Once I did try chase some 35k buff in Fw190, I eventually ran out of fuel after long chase couple hundred feets below the buff. (B-17 is so fast and 190 so SLOW 34-35k!)
Though, I got credited of that buff, but not by myself, but by P-51 dweeb, who finished it for me as while I we're gliding back to base without gas.
Not so feared buff hunters (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)