Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Special Events General => Topic started by: artik on March 15, 2003, 03:34:04 PM
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Hi,
I've made a new terrain of Israel with boarding countryes - Egypt,Syria,Jordan,Lebanon and the little part of Iraq.
The terrain was made to make events of very interesting history of Israel Air Force superiority.
You can find the terrain and the description of potential events at my site http://www.geocities.com/artyomtnk/
and the terrain can be found at this link:
http://www.geocities.com/artyomtnk/israel-150303.zip
I've wrote some possible scenarios - the biggest one is Six Day War - Moked (Focus) with 3 countries take a part in it, that can be very ineresting.
So anybody who is responsible for events making Tilt or someone else please take a look on my terrain and the scenarios I've wrote. It very interesting to realise this scenarios and to fly over the middle east.
for any contact email to the squard:
101@101squadron.com
Artik,
101 "Red" Squ., Israel
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Nice idea Artik :)
Nice to see someone thinking "outside the box"
Witch
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Yes It is really nice idea,
and if it will be developed - there is a possibility of making a big spesial event as Nieman. So who is responsible for projects of events please respond, what do I need,how to make this events on-line.Waiting for responce.
Artik, 101 "Red" Sqn, Israel
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I like the terrain especially for creating historical snapsnots and SquadOps. But as for later than WWII scenarios, it won't feel the same without proper aircraft to make up the loose ends.
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Hi, thank you for replay. I know that the events would look better if the historical planes take a part in the game. But we know also that the pilots make the flight and not the plane. If we use WWII planes too simulate Mirage and MiG-21 that the difference between them more or less the same we still able feel that we fly in 1967 over Suez channel, even flying in Mustang and not Mirage because the tactics in 67 and 45 was almost the same.
Anyway we can try to make such snapshots as experiment and to see how it works. More then that we can make the events of 48 and 56 where Mustangs, Mosquito, B-17, Spit and Messershmits took a part. We should try it and it could be one-day big event as Niemen. So when and how we can try this snapshots?
Artik,
101 "Red" Squ., Israel
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Just to let you know there is a long thread in the CM BB about this. Don't want you to think we are ignoring you. :) Lots of options to look at and consider.
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Originally posted by artik
Hi, thank you for replay. I know that the events would look better if the historical planes take a part in the game. But we know also that the pilots make the flight and not the plane. If we use WWII planes too simulate Mirage and MiG-21 that the difference between them more or less the same we still able feel that we fly in 1967 over Suez channel, even flying in Mustang and not Mirage because the tactics in 67 and 45 was almost the same.
Anyway we can try to make such snapshots as experiment and to see how it works. More then that we can make the events of 48 and 56 where Mustangs, Mosquito, B-17, Spit and Messershmits took a part. We should try it and it could be one-day big event as Niemen. So when and how we can try this snapshots?
Artik,
101 "Red" Squ., Israel
im miss smth or u are in wrong game?
ramzey
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Hi artik,
I noticed some white "triangles" on the ground as I flew around this map, might need "touching up"
Still is a kewl idea though, in fact I seem to remember that in this map area there was a Spit on Spit incident where some RAF and Isreali air force spits engaged each other !!
:)
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The French In Syiria Faught a Campagine aganst the Brits in 42 I beleave it would be a good CT set up, howeaver we would have to improvise, send me a screan shot of the map (dont Zip it) in my email, so I can seee if the base placement is good enough for the CT.
bradys5@hotmail.com
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Hi, there were 3 accidents between RAF and IAF in 48.
1 - 2 RAF spits were shut down near Abu Agila,
2 - RAF Mosquito was shgut down over Hazor AB when it photografed it by IAF Mustang
3 - 5 of 8 RAF spits were shut down near El Arish by 4 IAF spits. There were a lot of activity of young IAF in this arena.
About air forces activity in 42 over Syria I don't know a lot. If you have any information, tell me. Anyway I can make some additions for the terrain.
The most interesting things in this area had happened during long period of history of IAF air superiority such as 6 day war.
Unfortunately, there were a lot of wars in this area: 48, 56, 67, 73, 82 and in all of them IAF had very important part. Most of this events we can simulate in AH. The events of 48 and 56 we can use even exactly planes. For example, good link for 6 days war: SIX DAYS WAR (http://www.geocities.com/zvika47.geo/iaf-110.htm). I hope that the new area for AH will interest a lot of AH pilots. I'm going to add soon much more historical scenarios to my site to make you able to know more about IAF history.
Artik,
101 "Red" Squ., Israel
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IAF History has always interested me, clearly their exploits are the stuff of legened.
Howeaver In AH I am not to shure in the CT that it would go over very well, anything that is past ww2 in terms of scope has meet with serious controversy controversy, we tryed a couple times to do a Koriean conflect and it did not go over well.
Howeaver a late 40's air battle may be diferent.
The time Frame I am refering to for Syria was actualy in late 41. Batles raged from Aprial of 41 to July of 41 in Jordan Palestine,Iraq,Syria,Lebanon and up to the Turkish Boarder. The Battle was primarly between Vichy French forces in the Former French colonina possestions and the Free French and British forces from their Possitions in the area.
If we were to create an add hock plane set that featured some of the early war planes to represent the forces involved it could creat an unique plane set that would be fun set aganst the back drop of the Middle East.
The Same Map could be used as you sugest for a mid to late 40's battle using late war planes modeled in AH.
In effect killing two birds with one stone.
I have a map I could scan than will help in understanding the area involved.
For CT use we generaly like to see bases that are at least a sector apart and that suport Ground Vehicals. A good example is ASW's Rhine map. This map suports a two sided war with the third country issolated to prevent it being atacked as it is out of play( realy placing it off map is another good way to go.).
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Hi, there are a lot of problems to make a part of events without relevant planes, but I think it worth to try, there are too many options for historical events.
For example: Operation in Sinai in 56 of Israel, British and French armies. The plane that took a part in this war were Gloster Meteor (simulated by 262) Mustang, Mosquito II-28 (ar243) and GVs. If do not use later planes in this event MiG-15, Mister we can do good multi-frame event. In this year EAF had only jets, IAF used p51 and moss for attack. I think that better events should be based on later AF activity. About the places of fields – all air bases are historical for example H-3. And I think only more GV bases can be added at the places of historical towns (Gaza). Anyway if you see any bugs at the terrain email me (Artik@101squadron.com)
Artik,
101 "Red" Squ., Israel
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I cant realy download Zip files my system is buged and they just dont download for some reasion.
One thing to consider is a dual use for your map, if bases were placed more like my previous example above the map could be used in the CT, for events you just dont use all the bases, howeaver I havent seen the map, so it is dificult to comment on this, is their a way you could post a shot if the clipboard map so I can see the base layout?
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image attached:
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Taken from http://home.sprynet.com/~anneled/IAFtotal.html , a list of all Israeli air combat victories:
The Avia S-199 is a Czech built variant of the 109, built on the fuselage and wings of a 109G-14, with a weak 900hp Jumo engine, and no nose cannon.
Date Aircraft Number Kill Country
03-Jun-48 Avia S 199 2 C-47 Egypt
08-Jun-48 Avia S 199 1 Spitfire Egypt
10-Jul-48 Avia S 199 1 AT-6 Syria
18-Jul-48 Avia S 199 1 Spitfire Egypt
23-Sep-48 Avia S 199 1 Rapide Jordan
16-Oct-48 Avia S 199 1 Spitfire Egypt
19-Oct-48 Beaufighter 1 Fury Egypt
21-Oct-48 Spitfire IX 1 Spitfire Egypt
04-Nov-48 Spitfire IX 1 C-47 Egypt
17-Nov-48 Spitfire IX 0.5 Spitfire Egypt
P-51D 0.5 Spitfire Egypt
20-Nov-48 P-51D 1 Mosquito Britain
22-Dec-48 Spitfire IX 1 MC.205V Egypt
28-Dec-48 Spitfire IX 2 MC.205V Egypt
Spitfire IX 1 Spitfire Egypt
30-Dec-48 Spitfire IX 2 MC.205V Egypt
31-Dec-48 Spitfire IX 1 MC.205V Egypt
Spitfire IX 1 Spitfire Egypt
05-Jan-49 Spitfire IX 1 MC.205V Egypt
P-51D 1 MC.205V Egypt
07-Jan-49 Spitfire IX 3 Spitfire Britain
P-51D 2 MC.205V Egypt
Spitfire IX 1 Tempest Britain
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A long time ago, I was seaking advice from HiTech in a number of areas and somthing he told me was this.
Always try and have your bases around 25 miles apart and have at least a two bases front, that means that two bases on each side are apposing one another.
Now this is for a CT type of map, the above map has one one enemy base that would fall into this catagory. Players dont like to fly over 25 miles to get to another base, while their may be some who would do this generaly they get tierd of the longer transet and log. the two base width of the front is important but not 100% nescessary, in the smaller CT a narow front can be tolerated, GV spawns are also important between all bases.
What I might sugest is this, Fill the map with bases that are around a sector apart add depth to the aposing sides in terms of bases so that they can be faught for, and submit this as a seperate map to HTC for use in the CT. We could then use it for a week long plane set match up for one of the periouds mentioned above.
Submit a second map to HTC for the events, clearly the above map could be used by the CM's for an event howeaver this map at present could not be used in the CT do to the shallow front and the bases seperation being to far.
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Hi,
I know that the long way to fly is not good for players that just going to make as many as you can kills at the main terrain, but when you organize event with orders you should know that the flight is not just roll, find enemy shoot him down but to do the things you've got in the orders it make it different. I don't work now on the terrain for main arena, but for the terrain for snapshots or bigger events. However we can do the terrain that will use us on the main arena, but for now it isn't the main target.
The main thing I want now is to open a new area for historical events. To show the IAF history on-line. I know that the terrain will be updated and more GV fields and air bases will be added, but now the main target to start - to see IAF flying and fighting.
So, I think that we can make a snapshot based on the IAF activity duaring 48-49, that all the planes present in AH, and we do not have to add other planes. In my opinion the terrian is ready for Independence War events http://www.geocities.com/artyomtnk/firstevent.html
If you think that the terrian need addons, or the snapshot need some changes to make it more suitable for play tell me please.
I want to open a new area for AH pilots, and we need to start and to see how it works, and to go forward.
So, AH Snapshot and Events team can you replay and to tell your suggestions?
Artik,
101 "Red" Squ, Israel
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Well I was hopining to get a New Terain for The Combat Theater, I gues I will ask another map maker to do this for us, it is an area I was looking to get maped.
GL with CM's.
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Hi brady,
As you know, I really want to make new historical events, but if you need the co-operation I allways open for new ideas.
I do not fly a lot on Combat Theatre arenas - mostly Main or SEA, but all options are open.
This area is not usefull for SEA only so - the disscussion is open.
Artik
101 "Red" Squadron, Israel
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O I hear ya, but as I said above the map is realy not playable in the CT as it is, It looks good for the CM's though. If you wanted to make the changes to the map I mentioned above for CT use that would be great and I am shure we would use it. Like I said above as well you could do two maps one Totaly Historical, one as listed above with more bases intended for CT use.
Say for instance you made the map with more bases, for a SEA event the CM's would simply limit the bases available to be used to those that were historicaly available. Now the same map would would work well in the CT and be set up to represent two sides and use all the bases. CT set up differ largely from SEA events in that they primarly creat plane vs plane match ups for a whole week to losly represent a time and place in hstory.
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Hi brady,
No problem to add more GV bases at all,
Even if I'll add bases at the plases of historical towns it will be enogh to use it at CT.
Tell me what exectly areas are you mostly interested in?
What are the ruels of capturing in CT?
I placed the maproom in the middle of the base without a town,
so you have to destroy all ACS to be able to bring trrops,
Do you need roads, suppliers, convoys in terrian for CT?
There is areas defined as Rocks - it is too hard to drive at,
do we need add roads or something like that?
If you have any maps of this area with Names written in English it will help me, because most of my sources are in Hebrew and it is hard to rewrite them.
So tell me the rules for CT terrains - they are quite different from the maps for main arena, and I will be involved in this project.
If you can connect me with people that are working on snapshots and events to set new event you will help me a lot.
Artik,
101 "Red" Squadron, Israel
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"No problem to add more GV bases at all,
Even if I'll add bases at the plases of historical towns it will be enogh to use it at CT."
Typicaly all airbases should be 25 miles apart for CT use with GV bases sprinkled in hear and their and GV spawns between all bases, look at ASW's Rhine Map it is an excelent example of a CT map.
"Tell me what exectly areas are you mostly interested in?"
The way I see it we can do a 1941 Vichy French vs British set up, and a 1948 plane set in the CT with this map, both would be very good set up's imo.
"What are the ruels of capturing in CT? "
The same as in the MA, some maps have towns tied to them some have no towns and maprooms on the fields. Int he former case it is just like the MA, and in the late simply kill the ack and take the base.
"I placed the maproom in the middle of the base without a town,
so you have to destroy all ACS to be able to bring trrops, "
ACS= ACK?, if so that is fine.
"Do you need roads, suppliers, convoys in terrian for CT? "
No, we generaly turn off Suply, although strat objects like factors are fun to bomb.
"There is areas defined as Rocks - it is too hard to drive at,
do we need add roads or something like that? "
No we dont nead roads, Vehical spawn points should be placed at around a 5 min drive time from the bases they are set to spawn to, smoth terain is nice their but it is not compleatly nescessary.
"If you have any maps of this area with Names written in English it will help me, because most of my sources are in Hebrew and it is hard to rewrite them. "
I do I will scan some for you.
"So tell me the rules for CT terrains - they are quite different from the maps for main arena, and I will be involved in this project. "
Go to the map download page and take a peek at the following map's they are representive of the best of the lot for the CT and were comishioned or built expresly for the CT.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/htcindex.html
ASW's Rhine map and his Libbya map.( these two are the best)
10Bears Greace map.
NUTTZ's Tunisia map, and the Kuriles map.
"If you can connect me with people that are working on snapshots and events to set new event you will help me a lot. "
I am a CT Staffer I only work on and for CT related issues, although I try and help with some map issues for the CM's whear I can in terms of reasherch for skins and maps for their CM Map corp's. daddog would be a good person to e-mail about this I am shure he can help you, he is above and you can get his email thier.
Since I can no longer post picks I will nead to E mail you the map, can you give me your E mail adress?
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Hi brady,
Thank you for the complete information.
My e-mail is artik@101squadron.com
when you send me the maps and the area you need, show me the places you are interested in for Vichy French vs British battals. If you can connect me with this people responsibe for events and snapshots you will realy help me.
Can you give me some links or storyes of Air Force activity in 41 to make me able to unedrstand what do we need.
Artik,
101 "Red" Squadron Israel.
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Ask daddog he is listed right above in this thread, he can point you in the right direction.
I will send you the rest via e mail, later today.
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Originally posted by artik
you can connect me with this people responsibe for events and snapshots you will realy help me.
Hi artik.... been intending to reply to this thread for some time, but I always seem to be busy with other things. :rolleyes: I also wanted to hear opinions of the CM team before posting. :)
There is certainly a lot of interest, as daddog said above, in both the terrain and your events. I personally am no expert at what "works" and what doesn't, so am not able to give you much of an opinion myself. However, I am hoping we can use at least some of your ideas for future events, and was under the impression somebody may have already contacted you by email about the possibility? I do know that there is definitely some interest in your terrain, possibly for a future CAP..... if we were to use it, would you consider adding more bases so that most of the map is covered? :)
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Hi, Flossy
As I told all options are open. My biggest interest is events of IAF history because I am Israeli and that is interesting me. But also I have no problems to add more relevant fields to the map to make it suitable for the CT. But this work takes a lot of time that not realy have. But I will do all I can.
Very soon I will add more scenarios and snapshots descriptions that can be played at SEA.
But I need some advice from people that know good ways of building good scenario. I have a lot of ideas but I do not know exectly ways to realise tham - that is the reason I am waiting for responce of Scenario and Snapshot team members to help me realise this project.
How the scenario should be defined, what are good raito between opposite forces etc.?
I have a lot of new ideas and I want to realise them so I just need help and co-operation form the people responsible for that.
Artik,
101 "Red" Squadron, Israel
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Hi,
As I could see jet simulation with WW2 planes does not looks as very good idea for many player (but I still think that it will be good) so I added and edited some of my snapshots that I've written. There is the link to events and terrain descriptions:
http://www.geocities.com/artyomtnk/
For Kadesh war of 1956 I use Me262 instead of Gloster Meteor that had flew at both sides - Egyption and Israeli. So it would be good experiment to make jets vs jets fights with the same mashines. Also I've added new scenarios for Independence War (1948) and Kadesh (1956). I think they are quite interesting for play in SEA arena.
What do you think about it Flossy, daddog other members of CM stuff? I know that the way is long to make the events on-line but anyway what is the process?
Artik,
101 "Red" Squadron, Israel