Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Klauss on April 04, 2009, 01:54:58 PM
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Skin under construction:
- 90% of it done, just need a little time for the details. Here is the picture:
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/SonderKommandoELBE.jpg)
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Which 109 model is it for?
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I will do this skin for the g6 and k4.
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Did that unit even see operational status? Curious.
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Did that unit even see operational status? Curious.
Yes
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Might help to post screenshots that show the details. Those images are all quite blurry.
EDIT: Wait a minute those aren't even AH screenshots! wtf?
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How can a plane be both types? Pick the one the picture/profile it is for and do it. Don't take two slots with the same aircraft.
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Those pictures aren't your sources, are they? Those are screencaps from Dogfights :rolleyes:
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Those pictures aren't your sources, are they? Those are screencaps from Dogfights :rolleyes:
:rofl
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Motherland, what do you mean by "my sources" ? Yes, they are from that tv show, i thought everybody would recognize that from the first second they saw the pictures, that's why i didn't say they were from that show, it is so obvious. Krusty ... "EDIT: Wait a minute those aren't even AH screenshots! wtf?" what do you mean by that? I don't understand the word "even" in that...Did i say that they were shots from AH? Fencer, "How can a plane be both types?" huh? I didn't say a plane can be both types, just a paint job can be applied to two bf 109 models. This sqd used from what we have in the game, g6 and k4, both having the same paint job.
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fencer...so funny :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl lol/lmao/lmfao/rolf/lol/lolz
MJ talon, enough to get it in the game.
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How should i put this in a nice way:
Klauss, Dogfights are not a accurate and reliable source to do Plane skins from. Actually, they are actually worst than Wiki. Grab a history book or a book on german aircraft and you might see that particular skin and you may not.
I personally would never turn to the history channels "Dogfights" for any reliable source on a german unit's colors. :rolleyes:
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why put it in a nice way? calm, not a fan of the show... i know it's inacurate, and many bs in there, mostly for teenage kids "zomg! american planes rule"...saw many stupid things in that show.."The 109 starts loobing cannon shels"..when in fact the mgs are blinking..no cannon..and many many funny things...but...back to the subject...i used the pics from the show so you can see in a general mode what the skin is about...just an idea
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Those pictures aren't your sources, are they? Those are screencaps from Dogfights
If it is 90% complete then surely your own screenies would have been a better representation. Honestly after the last time the community tried to help you and the way that thread turned out, why even post this in this way? You obviously arent looking for help or announcement (being the work presented isn't yours.) Maybe its a Cookie you're after. Well, No Screenshot...No Cookie :confused:
Are you quite sure you understand that the submitted skins must be based on a historic aircraft? Your reference material is laughable at best and insulting to those that base so many hours, weeks to research alone. I would prefer that you just not post your lunacy and suprise me by actually having one accepted and in-game. Oh well. Skuzzy will be the stop-gap.
ReDhAwK
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No screenshots, last time i got many negative comments, like i was pretending to be some kind of pro in the domain, ppl forgot that in 8 days created a skin from 0, with no previous photo editing abilities. I saw so many poor worked/quality skins in the game, skins that as a final product came worst than my skin...but...still.... i created a chit/crap skin....so no screanshots, you will see it in-game. I want to ask your oppinion about the skin's general looks, if you like it, i personaly like simple skins, either black or dark colours to dominate.
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you have any historical photos?
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If this gets in do we get perkies for colliding with the bombers? That was this units ACM of choice.
Did a quick search for pictures of their aircraft didn't find much. I did, however, run across this snippet on another board and thought it was interesting.
It was in reference to the Dogfights episode on the Sonderkommando Elbe
Postby Ludwig on Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:45 am
First, it vas an insulted to build this program for kinder of der German Luftwaffe and das Amerikaner bomber groups.
My cousin Luther was das pilot who crashed three Amerikaner bombers with his tactic of 'clipping' der tails mit propeller, zen attacking next bomber. He then returned his attack using propeller to clip das bomber rudders.
After crashing thirds bomber he lost der control and his ME-109 starts fall aparts.
He body vas smashed much and he spent life in das wheelchairs.
He affirmed many times units were not called Sonderkommando vhich vas name puts on Judan who worked over other Judan in der kamps.
Units were called KommandoZursee...much differ from history reports.
I apologizes to kinder of all involved. Butts these meine vere not suicide peoples like kamikazi japanese.
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No screenshots, last time i got many negative comments, like i was pretending to be some kind of pro in the domain, ppl forgot that in 8 days created a skin from 0, with no previous photo editing abilities. I saw so many poor worked/quality skins in the game, skins that as a final product came worst than my skin...but...still.... i created a chit/crap skin....so no screanshots, you will see it in-game. I want to ask your oppinion about the skin's general looks, if you like it, i personaly like simple skins, either black or dark colours to dominate.
Generally people post here for criticism so that they can fix errors and whatnot. Generally the people who comment understand that and thus try to help... That's actually kind of the point in posting your skins here.
It's what should be not only expected but appreciated.
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Lye el...thought that was the German Kamikazzi version.
I dont think they allow kamikazzi skins in the game. but dont hold me against it
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Lye el...thought that was the German Kamikazzi version.
I dont think they allow kamikazzi skins in the game. but dont hold me against it
Sonderkommando Elbe WAS the German Kamikaze operation
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Sonderkommando Elbe was the German ramming unit featured in Dogfights, a la the screencaps at the top of the page.
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they will accept it in the game...i don't see why not
the plane saw action, i will not crash it in anything = will not use it like it was used in ww2. i just want the skin on that plane and the plane+that skin in the game.
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Lye el...thought that was the German Kamikazzi version.
See my edited post.
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So....do you like the skin? thumbs up?down? When I do a skin i do it for myself but i want to know what others think of it since it does take a slot in the limited skin slots for each plane...
Skin= the general/overall looks...simple skin with yellow/black nose....
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No Klauss. You do not want to know if we like the skin or not. We have already told you that you have provided nothing to show that this scheme actually existed historically. We do not doubt the unit. The paint-job is the question. You say that you skin for yourself. We all do that in here. We do take requests from time to time but all in all we skin for selfish reasons. I cannot understand why you do not get that you are providing ZERO information showing this paint scheme is authentic. Yet you want us to say, yea man, we love it. You are never going to get a skin past Skuzzy without something...ANYTHING...showin g the paint is real.
I could care less if it were a pink 109k. Show me it existed in the color you reference and I'm all about it.
ReDhAwK
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they will accept it in the game...i don't see why not
A)The autocannon was removed (and IIRC the armor as well, or the armor was increased) because of weight... these are modifications that would potentially cause HTC to reject the skin, if they don't just because it was from Sdko Elbe.
B) It's not a real plane. The 3D model looks weird in the first place (beside the fact that the shape of the ETC 503 rack is completely inaccurate)... it's a G14/AS with a short type v-stab/rudder. I'm not going to say for certain that such an aircraft never existed, but I've never seen one, and it seems unlikely to me. Also, the skin itself is very unlikely. It looks like they just came up with something that would look good.
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I though that name sounded familar. :lol
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So....do you like the skin? thumbs up?down? When I do a skin i do it for myself but i want to know what others think of it since it does take a slot in the limited skin slots for each plane...
Skin= the general/overall looks...simple skin with yellow/black nose....
Thumbs down because we are seeing no historical photos to back up the skin. You aren't clear if it's a G6 or a K4. Tough to have a photo of a single bird that is two different versions :) Do you want some help seeing if we can track down an actual Sonderkommando Elbe 109 that can be supported with more then a TV show image? I'm not sure I have any, but I'm willing to look. I believe there are some dedicated 109 guys around who might have some info as well.
But it would be pointless to submit this particular skin as HTC wants to know it's historically accurate and you have nothing to support that.
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I'm in agreement with Guppy and Redhawk.
Basically you're wasting our time and skinning inferior skins based off of little-to-no actual references, and then posting about a skin you know will get criticism, so you're not showing us screenshots? It's like you're having fun at the community's expense.
I think I've got about 30 skins in this game. I can say I'm decent (not the best). My first 2 skins were rejected flat out. I know what it's like to start out in this stuff. The problem is you need to go back and rework something "here" or "there" but instead of even daring to see if there is anything wrong, you hide your skin away.
Frankly: If you're too ashamed to have your skin see the light of day, why did you skin it in the first place? Start with showing WHAT you will skin first, in the forums, and if you don't have any info on it, ASK. Once you're sure the skin is valid and worthy of being in-game, then proceed. Show progress, even if you KNOW you're not done, put up a screenshot or two (just for the fun of it). Keep working on it until you're HAPPY to show others in the community your screenshots. Then when you're TOTALLY DONE, step away from it for a full week. Not 3 days. Not 5 days. A week. Don't even look at it. Come back and start over. Look at your detail layers, your weathering, the final in-game product, and make some changes. Then step away from it for ANOTHER week. When you no longer see any changes you want to make with your "fresh eyes" ask the community. Some suggestions are subjective, but some are quite eye-opening, and you realize you've missed something important.
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Then when you're TOTALLY DONE, step away from it for a full week. Not 3 days. Not 5 days. A week. Don't even look at it. Come back and start over. Look at your detail layers, your weathering, the final in-game product, and make some changes. Then step away from it for ANOTHER week. When you no longer see any changes you want to make with your "fresh eyes" ask the community. Some suggestions are subjective, but some are quite eye-opening, and you realize you've missed something important.
I've never seen this suggested before... I do it, unintentionally however. But I do find that if I drag out the process I sometimes look at things differently and see things that I didn't see before.
Procrastination makes perfect, as is in my sig :D
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I've never seen this suggested before... I do it, unintentionally however. But I do find that if I drag out the process I sometimes look at things differently and see things that I didn't see before.
Procrastination makes perfect, as is in my sig :D
Iv always done since I rushed things and forgot a huge part on one of my 190D skins. I knew the deadline was coming up and sent it in to early then the day it came out I noticed that I was missing a "walk here" outline. That's why now I work on multiple skins at the same time. I work on one for a week then switch to the next one and work on it for a week and so on. That way each time I start working on it my eyes are fresh and I spot the little things right away.
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No point, these aircraft were unarmed and thus will not be accepted.
Some retained a single cowl MG, but that's it.
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Sonderkommando Elbe WAS the German Kamikaze operation
No, it wasn't.
They just used the aircraft as their weapon, instead of the guns.
Germany did not have an equivalent of the Kamikaze operation.
They operated under the belief that they had a small chance of survival.
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krusty, how am i wasting your time? If you consider that posting here is a waste of time, don't post in the first place. I am not ashamed with the skin. I won't post screenshots just for the hell of it, done that.
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Don't be so stuck up, most of these people here are string to help you, not blatently tring to pick on you.
We need a picture of that skin you are giving us, even I know that that is inaccurate, that's why I usually don't watch Dogfights for the planes, more the stories. If you can find an actual picture that particular plane, then by all rights skin it, it will be accepted.
It will never be accepted without the proof. That's what they are tring to tell you.
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Here's my .2
Sonderkommando was NOT a kamikaze unit. They rammed the bombers with the intent to bail out, not kill themselfs.
As far as what plane it was,my guess would be a G6 as they produced more of those than any other variant, and I don't see them using a newer variant on ramming bombers.
I don't think the skin should be added. They saw action, but I wouldn't consider it "combat" They came in higher, rammed the bomber, and bailed out if they were lucky.
I tried finding more pictures but couldn't for some reason...not alot ot there. I think it was a good thought Klauss, but sources seem to be hard to come by on this unit.
:salute
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krusty, how am i wasting your time? If you consider that posting here is a waste of time, don't post in the first place. I am not ashamed with the skin. I won't post screenshots just for the hell of it, done that.
His point is we want to help, but you aren't giving us much to go on. With what we've seen now, it wouldn't be accepted as there is no historical photos of the aircraft. You aren't clear what type 109 it is, and we haven't seen a preview of the actual skin so we could possibly find photo references for you to back it up.
That's why I visit this forum as I like to be able to help since I have built up a large library of my own resources. I'll help you if I can but you need to meet us halfway here :)
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Then when you're TOTALLY DONE, step away from it for a full week. Not 3 days. Not 5 days. A week. Don't even look at it. Come back and start over. Look at your detail layers, your weathering, the final in-game product, and make some changes. Then step away from it for ANOTHER week. When you no longer see any changes you want to make with your "fresh eyes" ask the community. Some suggestions are subjective, but some are quite eye-opening, and you realize you've missed something important.
You know, when I did my first skin, the 109E4, I wish someone had mentioned that to me. I spent a long time on it, but it was constant work, with no breaks. When It finally got accepted, I flew it in game, and my first thought was 'My god, those cordite marks look naff!'
Had I stepped away, Im sure I would have corrected them
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From 'Luftwaffe Sturmgruppen' by John Weal:
"The mission was to be flown at very high altitude. In order to save weight, most of the Messerchmitts had their heavy engine-mounted cannon removed. Many had at least one of their fuselage machine gunstaken out as well, leaving just a single weapon and 60 rounds in the magazine..." "...Some reports suggest that the Prague units flew aircrafft that were completely unarmed"
This information would suggest that the Kommando Elbe aircraft are not really suitable for addition to the game.
It would be nice to honour the efforts of these desperate young Germans by doing a skin but I don't think that slapping a skin on a G-14 or K4 is necessarily the best way to do that.
Given that most Elbe 109s had 2/3s of their armament removed (in particular, the main weapon) I don't think that a Kommando Elbe skin should be accepted. Certainly not without rock solid evidence and photos, at least.
Klauss, doing skins is nice but as a few people have already mentioned, skins that are done without solid evidence are a waste of slots.
There are only 15 slots per aircraft. There are photos, WrkNmr details and all sorts of other information readily available on heaps of aircraft. There tonnes of photos and accompanying profiles in books that are quite cheap through Amazon, for example.
Forgive me if I sound blunt or harsh, it is not my intention to do so, it's just that the information for these aircraft is out there and there isn't really any excuse for sloppiness in this area.
That's why people seem to getting a bit pissy with you. People spend hours and plenty of dollars buying and pouring through books to find the correct rivet and panel line details for their skins... then they do the same thing all over again whilst finding photos of their subject aircraft.... finding out its history and any distinctive markings it may have had.
Skins may just be a bunch of pixels but they shouldn't just be treated as 'some cool paint job' for us to muck around with in a computer game... The skins are an opportunity for some of us to pay tribute to the men who flew and sometimes died in these aircraft. I know that's how I treat it. It's symbol of respect.
That does sound harsh, sorry. It's not meant to be.
If you understand that, you'll be on the same page as most of the guys here and you will get nothing but helpful comments from them.
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Sad, really.
I thought there would be hope.
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really sad...
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Klauss,
I found some links for you to look at. They are not legitimate sources, but maybe they will help you expand your research on this squad unit. Some of these websites have lists of books, and perhaps you will be able to back up your skin to the HTC staff. Not sure if itll do justice, but just trying to help out! :salute
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderkommando_Elbe
http://imansolas.freeservers.com/Angelos/Elbe_english.html
http://aircraft.wikia.com/wiki/Sonderkommando_Elbe
Please note also that this unit flew only one mission. About 8 bombers were destroyed and the mission was very unsuccessful.
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Here are two interviews with Ramjager pilots,they may be of some use,and they are certainly interesting.
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj210/hazzer39/Picture028.jpg)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj210/hazzer39/Picture029.jpg)
Sorry about the image quality.