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General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Vraciu on July 13, 2018, 06:41:13 PM

Title: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 13, 2018, 06:41:13 PM
This P-51B named "First Of The Few" was part of the 31st FG, 309th FS.   I could find no details about the airplane or who flew it.   My only reference photos were a couple of grainy thumbnails cached by search engines.   Very frustrating.

It is olive drab over gray but had the paint stripped off the tail, presumably to make the red stripes more visible.  It was originally skinned by Player1.  I retained his version of these (cleaned up) as a hat tip to his artistry.   This is one that really didn't need much to update it—I could have almost gotten away with a restoration rather than a redraw as the basic work done was quite good overall.   However, since my name is going to be on it I went ahead and did everything over.

The top two screenshots are the final final final version.  The other two I found a couple of things to tweak, but I didn't want to go take more shots.  They're good enough to get the idea I hope.    :salute

(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=393674.0;attach=30163)

(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=393674.0;attach=30161)

(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=393674.0;attach=30151)

(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=393674.0;attach=30167)
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 13, 2018, 06:43:26 PM
Comparison to the original.   

(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=393674.0;attach=30155)

(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=393674.0;attach=30157)

Resized Image Test:

(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=393674.0;attach=30165)
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Devil 505 on July 13, 2018, 06:50:19 PM
Very nice

I love the contrast between the OD and yellow stripes on the wings.
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 13, 2018, 07:15:25 PM
Very nice

I love the contrast between the OD and yellow stripes on the wings.

Thanks, Sensei.   
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: oboe on July 13, 2018, 09:01:49 PM
Much nicer than the original, Vraciu.   Big improvement!
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 13, 2018, 09:44:53 PM
Much nicer than the original, Vraciu.   Big improvement!

Thank you, Chairman.    The upload pixelated the tail stripes some otherwise it might look a bit better.   :salute
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: lyric1 on July 13, 2018, 11:58:59 PM
 :aok
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: FTJR on July 14, 2018, 01:41:42 AM
Very nice V.
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Greebo on July 14, 2018, 03:38:18 AM
Looks a lot better than before Vraciu, well done.
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2018, 07:33:04 AM
Thanks, gents.    :salute

The leading edge paint has some erosion on the stripes and paint chips.  These angles don’t show that well...   
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Puma44 on July 14, 2018, 07:49:19 AM
Very nice work!  For reference only, a view of the exhaust stain on Crazy Horse 2.

(https://s33.postimg.cc/y3lnht5cr/6_F7362_BD-_C4_EE-4018-_A232-9904_D1_F2_F04_C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/y3lnht5cr/)

 :salute

Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2018, 07:58:15 AM
Very nice work!  For reference only, a view of the exhaust stain on Crazy Horse 2.

(https://s33.postimg.cc/y3lnht5cr/6_F7362_BD-_C4_EE-4018-_A232-9904_D1_F2_F04_C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/y3lnht5cr/)

 :salute

Yeah I am trying to imagine it with people rubbing up against it, etc.   I have the exhaust figured out for my NMF airplanes.  Not so much for olive drab.   :(  Will probably tweak this one a tad more before I submit it.  Thanks for the photo. 
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: oboe on July 14, 2018, 08:11:22 AM
I've had trouble with adding dark colors for engine soot and grime - it may look OK while in Photoshop, but in game the dark color shows up as reddish brown if applied over the top of drab green.  Tried many things as work around but still not completely satisfied.
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2018, 08:19:06 AM
I've had trouble with adding dark colors for engine soot and grime - it may look OK while in Photoshop, but in game the dark color shows up as reddish brown if applied over the top of drab green.  Tried many things as work around but still not completely satisfied.

Well at least I know it’s not just me.   

 :headscratch:
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2018, 08:21:36 AM
Maybe I can just widen it.  Then again, the whole spiraling slipstream theory could explain why the two sides wouldn’t match. 

(https://www.worldwarphotos.info/wp-content/gallery/usa/aircrafts/p-51-mustang/P-51D_44-13626_Sweet_Thing_Iv_of_the_374th_FS_361st_FG_Coded_B7-M.jpg)
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2018, 08:24:24 AM
I also used brown transitioning to gray at one point. 

(http://www.vintagewings.ca/Portals/0/Vintage_Stories/News%20Stories%20P/Bite%20Me!/BiteMe57.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3277/2789054608_577ea6df91_b.jpg)

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSB9mtcSypmUGBwFR7kmlwAejF4OWNg9NCX9VBxtdK_MTA9xzmh)

(http://www.americanairmuseum.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/freeman/media-377231.jpg?itok=vLBfxuVA)
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2018, 09:05:42 AM
Updated the exhaust.  The right side actually looked more like this.   I guess I intended to mimic that and forgot.  I will tweak it a little bit more but you get the idea.

Thanks for the heads up, Puma.


(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=393674.0;attach=30177)
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Devil 505 on July 14, 2018, 09:16:55 AM
I've had trouble with adding dark colors for engine soot and grime - it may look OK while in Photoshop, but in game the dark color shows up as reddish brown if applied over the top of drab green.  Tried many things as work around but still not completely satisfied.

What I have done on the darker paint schemes and all Allison engined P-40's is to add a layer of gray smoke under the sooty dark brown smoke. I just copy the sooty smoke stain onto a new layer and change the soot color to neutral gray. Then I enlarge the gray stain so that the gray peeks out from under the soot stain. 
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2018, 09:48:23 AM
What I have done on the darker paint schemes and all Allison engined P-40's is to add a layer of gray smoke under the sooty dark brown smoke. I just copy the sooty smoke stain onto a new layer and change the soot color to neutral gray. Then I enlarge the gray stain so that the gray peeks out from under the soot stain.

Let me give that a shot.  Although this is a Merlin I imagine the effect is similar (based on pictures) to the Allison Mustangs.
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2018, 10:00:18 AM
First try..........................

(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=393674.0;attach=30179)
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2018, 11:27:38 AM
Updated exhaust stains...

(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=393674.0;attach=30181)
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: oboe on July 14, 2018, 12:39:45 PM
Honestly, the transition from a brownish exhaust stain to dark grey-black isn't working for me - the transition seems too abrupt, for one thing.   But besides that, I don't really understand the physical rationale for transitioning from brown to black?  I can't think of a real-world example of that?
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2018, 12:41:49 PM
Honestly, the transition from a brownish exhaust stain to dark grey-black isn't working for me - the transition seems too abrupt, for one thing.   But besides that, I don't really understand the physical rationale for transitioning from brown to black?  I can't think of a real-world example of that?

Heat, time of exposure, and the effect this has on the paint.    You're getting different temperatures as it moves aft among other things.    The transition is where the guy's leg is rubbing when he climbs into the cockpit.  I can blend that more.

I have two other options.  One is to simply dial it back to almost nothing--which I have also seen.  The other is to pick one color or the other and run it all the way...
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Devil 505 on July 14, 2018, 12:43:55 PM
Honestly, the transition from a brownish exhaust stain to dark grey-black isn't working for me - the transition seems too abrupt, for one thing.   But besides that, I don't really understand the physical rationale for transitioning from brown to black?  I can't think of a real-world example of that?

I agree.

Heat, time of exposure, and the effect this has on the paint.    You're getting different temperatures as it moves aft among other things.    The transition is where the guy's leg is rubbing when he climbs into the cockpit.  I can blend that more.

I have two other options.  One is to simply dial it back to almost nothing--which I have also seen.  The other is to pick one color or the other and run it all the way...


I think what is needed is a transition from dark soot to medium gray soot

I'll post shots from a P-40 skin in a minute to illustrate.
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2018, 12:57:43 PM
Some are clean, some aren't so that's always an option.

(http://wingstracksguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/p-51b-peggy.jpg)


(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/354-353d-p51b-lashden.jpg/440px-354-353d-p51b-lashden.jpg)


(http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/images/URG_legends_allen_gus_w-WRG-0033340.jpg)


Warbirds, with modern fuel, but...

(http://www.vg-photo.com/airshow/2014/applevalley/p51/EVG_2213.jpg)

(http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51survivors/pages/picfiles/44-72216/44-72216_01472_pd1.jpg)
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2018, 01:13:35 PM
Fooling with it until Devil comes back.    :D

(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=393674.0;attach=30187)
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Devil 505 on July 14, 2018, 01:21:57 PM
This is where I start. Full size smoke pattern in Dark soot color RGB 41/35/30 at 100% opacity.
(https://s6.postimg.cc/6unmdyw1t/Smoke_1.png) (https://postimages.org/)

Copy smoke to 2 new layers and change color to gray on the bottom layer. On layer directly above gray smoke scale down the soot smoke to allow gray to show through to the sides and rear.

layers should be arranged like so:

1. Full size dark smoke
2. Small size dark smoke
3. Full size gray smoke
 
This is layers 2 and 3 at 100% opacity. My dumb arse had merged these layers making the P-40 template, so they are locked together.
(https://s6.postimg.cc/n5nqaanz5/Smoke_2.png) (https://postimages.org/)

Set layers 2 and 3 to desired opacity and use layer 1 to blend and tint them if necessary.

Layer 1 at 25% over layers 2 and 3 at 60%
(https://s6.postimg.cc/pmzhhk05t/Smoke_3.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2018, 01:34:24 PM
I will give that a shot.  Thanks.   :salute
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Puma44 on July 14, 2018, 01:56:05 PM
Yeah I am trying to imagine it with people rubbing up against it, etc.   I have the exhaust figured out for my NMF airplanes.  Not so much for olive drab.   :(  Will probably tweak this one a tad more before I submit it.  Thanks for the photo. 

Lee Lauderback likes to keep the exhaust stain for esthetics.  I’ve not gained any stain climbing I n or out.  There’s a step in the side of the fuselage.  Once my foot is in that, it’s a matter of stepping in and putting the glove on. 

Nice effort!
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2018, 02:02:44 PM
Lee Lauderback likes to keep the exhaust stain for esthetics.  I’ve not gained any stain climbing I n or out.  There’s a step in the side of the fuselage.  Once my foot is in that, it’s a matter of stepping in and putting the glove on. 

Nice effort!

Yeah, but you guys are being a lot more careful getting in and out than these guys were in WWII.   :rofl

I will get it sorted.   Thanks for bringing it up.  It’s amazing what you miss when you’ve been staring at the same drawing for days...   :bhead
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2018, 02:22:48 PM
First crack at Devil's method...  Edit In: I had the gray at 12%...  Oops.  Let me tweak it.
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2018, 02:27:17 PM
60%, 28%, 25%

(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=393674.0;attach=30193)
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Devil 505 on July 14, 2018, 03:00:10 PM
Looking better.

Now you can play with how far back you want the soot to turn to gray.
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2018, 03:11:24 PM
Looking better.

Now you can play with how far back you want the soot to turn to gray.

How are you changing that?   With a select tool?
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Devil 505 on July 14, 2018, 03:22:09 PM
How are you changing that?   With a select tool?

you can try the Scale Select tool to shorten the smaller soot section, but that will be difficult because of the curved nature of the stain.

Best bet would be to use the erase tool with a large fuzzy brush and set the opacity of the tool to 10-20% and just work on the small soot layer to shorten it length and keep it blended into the other layers
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: oboe on July 14, 2018, 03:36:34 PM
If I might make another suggestion - change the font of the "First Of The Few" text.  It looks like the Arial font to me - which is fine for typesetting, but too perfect to represent hand lettering on the side of a cowl, IMO.

MS Comic Sans is a possibility here, but I'd suggest searching for free fonts looking for "Hand lettering" or "Hand printing" styles.  You might find something the varies in weight and even stroke angle between letters that would look less perfect and machine-like.  Subtle inconsistencies and imperfections are key.

<S>
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2018, 03:41:52 PM
If I might make another suggestion - change the font of the "First Of The Few" text.  It looks like the Arial font to me - which is fine for typesetting, but too perfect to represent hand lettering on the side of a cowl, IMO.

MS Comic Sans is a possibility here, but I'd suggest searching for free fonts looking for "Hand lettering" or "Hand printing" styles.  You might find something the varies in weight and even stroke angle between letters that would look less perfect and machine-like.  Subtle inconsistencies and imperfections are key.

<S>

The font on the pictures I saw is closest to Arial Narrow.   It’s extremely clean.   The problem is finding a good picture of it.  They’ve vanished.  It’s definitely more like a stencil than a brush.    Dang if I can find anything now. 

I need to dial back the opacity though. 
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2018, 03:44:00 PM
you can try the Scale Select tool to shorten the smaller soot section, but that will be difficult because of the curved nature of the stain.

Best bet would be to use the erase tool with a large fuzzy brush and set the opacity of the tool to 10-20% and just work on the small soot layer to shorten it length and keep it blended into the other layers

I will try it. 
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2018, 07:58:20 PM
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=393674.0;attach=30196)Latest...

Lettering adjusted.   I think this airplane was also part of a PR campaign which is why the lettering is so precise.   I really wish I could find those pictures I saw of it when I was researching other Mustangs.    :bhead

Exhaust changed.

(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=393674.0;attach=30198)
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Devil 505 on July 14, 2018, 08:23:51 PM
yeah, that's looking good.
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2018, 09:13:25 PM
yeah, that's looking good.

Thanks again, Professor.    :salute
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Puma44 on July 15, 2018, 09:58:59 AM
Here’s another stain view I just came across.

(https://s33.postimg.cc/jxgitz2ez/A5887289-_E52_A-4_BB6-9277-_B23_C81_D8_BE88.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/jxgitz2ez/)
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Vraciu on July 15, 2018, 10:09:08 AM
That's a nice pic.
Title: Re: P-51B "First Of The Few" - 31st FG, 309th FS - AH3 Adoption
Post by: Puma44 on July 15, 2018, 11:19:35 AM
Yeah, a good view.  Interesting to note the dark part of the stain flows more or less straight back while the hotter (Blue) part someonwhat follows the airflow over the wing at higher power settings and airspeeds.