Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on December 23, 2001, 02:58:00 AM
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(http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2001/US/12/22/plane.diverted/top.suspect.whdh.jpg)
(http://a799.ms.akamai.net/3/799/388/d3ac8028ec761c/msnbc.com/news/1311821.jpg)
Man oh man its just getting so much harder and harder to tell who the next terrorist might be.... :mad:
[ 12-23-2001: Message edited by: GRUNHERZ ]
[ 12-23-2001: Message edited by: GRUNHERZ ]
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"We are concerned that hijackers may attempt to smuggle disassembled weapons on board an airliner by hiding weapon components within their shoes," read the December 11 advisory, which was distributed to airlines and airline security.
Man, imagine if this guy ha used a lighter instead of matches. He mighta gotten away with it.
Big <S!> to the passengers adn crews for dealing with him swiftly.
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I saw a report on CNN and they didn't report the man looked like he was of middle-east decent. The local reporter mentioned this in his local report from Logan airport. The CNN news anchor jumped right in and apologised for this reporters reporting. Now I see the picture and he sure looks like he is of middle-east decent to me. I guess facts that aren't PC are no longer reported by CNN.
Being PC is going to get people killed.
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This plane left from Europe right? How in the hell does a guy that looks like that with no ID other than it's passport get on a damned plane? By the look of it's face at least it appears that the passengers got to work him over a bit. What a piece of toejam man. They need to make a carcus out of him.
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Bomb in his shoes?
Who's he think he is, Maxwell Smart? :p
I can see people flying naked soon, with a cavity search at each end :D
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"No other ID then it's passport..."
What's wrong with a passport... Doesn't it count?
Broes
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Originally posted by Broes:
"No other ID then it's passport..."
What's wrong with a passport... Doesn't it count?
Broes
no
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and from what CNN says...its a fake passport
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I wonder when airports are going to have to acknowledge that security has to be taken seriously. In this day of "heightened security", a man with no checked baggage for an overseas flight and a fraudulent passport was able to board a flight without question... oh yeah.. he was likely carrying a bomb too.
AKDejaVu
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Yeah, Deja, it would certainly SEEM that this guy should have set off a few mental alarms after all the briefings the industry has been giving the employees.
Proof (to me at least) that airline security has a LONG way to go as yet.
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Did you see that flight attendant lighting a CIGARETTE! Thank God that disgusting creature was forced to do her evil business out of doors. Her disregard for her fellow man was blatantly obvious. At that, she was no more than a stiff breeze from a building full of our fellow PPCM (Perfectly P C Mutants). How can the government allow this person to be shown on TV? What if children were watching. I think a class action law suit is in order here.
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Dang, I didn't see that!! Lighting a CIG!!!
Hell, if it were me I would have had 2 lit and a quart of whisky and I would be using a straw too!!
My nerves would sure have been shot!!
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Toad, I still beleive that the cockpit crew needs to be armed!!
When will the powers that be recongize this???
This would at least give an even chance to the passengers and crew!! As it is now the terroissts have the upper hand :(
These weapons should be in plain view of the passengers!! Then just maybe one or more of these idiots will think twice before "doing their thing".
[ 12-23-2001: Message edited by: 1776 ]
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1776. You need to think this one through. Why do you think prison guards are unarmed. Rambo is a movie fantsy. He is not going to be in a cockpit.
Combine the element of surprise (think 9.11) with a fair number of high jackers. And you end up with a well armed bad guy.
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The pilots aren't coming out. Period.
It's when other folks try to get IN.
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I can think of any number of ways to breech that cockpit door. I wont go into them for obvious reasons. But, just as an example, Suppose you were to do a study of pilot personalitys. Just those flying in an area you want to attack. You find a weakness in one. Lets say he is a very, devoted father.
The attendant is walking down the isle. You hand her the phone out of the back of the seat in front of you. You say. "This is for you. Its an emergency". The voice on the phone identifies herself as the wife of the captain. Gives some sort of personal info, that only he and she would know. She explains that she and the children are being held by armed men, they have knives, and starting with his 2 year old, they are going to skin them alive slowly, one by one until the captain turns the plane over to the man who handed the phone to her.
What is the guy going to do?
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What is the guy going to do?
Does this hypothetical question aply to before or after September 11th?
AKDejaVu
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I had written a long specualtive response scenarion to this but I just wiped it out. I'm not going to go into how I think it would run. I don't think it would be beneficial to "wargame" this stuff in a public forum. Yeah, I'm paranoid.
I will say this: I personally would not, could not, voluntarily surrender my aircraft to anyone knowing what happened September 11th.
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check out this pic of the guy in court
(http://www.msnbc.com/news/676895.asp)
then check out the photo of him in the first post.
they don't even look like the same guy. it apears to me that the artist on the drawn pic is trying to downplay the guys obvious arabic apearance
ok the pic didn't show, here's the link
pic (http://www.msnbc.com/news)
[ 12-24-2001: Message edited by: capt. apathy ]
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This doesn't have to be about what race he looked like. The type of profiling that could have nabbed this guy could have been non race specific.
I still think back to an interview with a El Al security rep interview. Some of the things they would profile:- Single
- Traveling alone
- Someone with a one way ticket
- Cash ticket purchases
- ANYONE TRAVELING WITHOUT CHECKED BAGGAGE
I wonder how many of those points this guy didn't fit into.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by capt. apathy:
...it apears to me that the artist on the drawn pic is trying to downplay the guys obvious arabic apearance
This is suppose to be an artist? The drawing looks more like Jesus, then this piece of filth.
You can't be that incompetent, it's got to be intentional.
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DJV,
actually my post wasn't so much about the race he apeared to be, but the spin that the news puts on things.
news should be about facts but they are willing to distort info to stay PC. i know this is nothing new, just pointing out another instance.
[ 12-24-2001: Message edited by: capt. apathy ]
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
This doesn't have to be about what race he looked like. The type of profiling that could have nabbed this guy could have been non race specific.
I still think back to an interview with a El Al security rep interview. Some of the things they would profile:- Single
- Traveling alone
- Someone with a one way ticket
- Cash ticket purchases
- ANYONE TRAVELING WITHOUT CHECKED BAGGAGE
I wonder how many of those points this guy didn't fit into.
AKDejaVu
The guys was stopped on Fri, questioned, and ... PERMITTED TO BOARD THE PLANE. He missed the plane, and took another the next day.
What kind of security is that?
And remember, the next guy will get married, will buy some luggage, pay for the ticket with a credit card etc...
He can change all these listed "security triggers", except one, the way he looks.
[ 12-24-2001: Message edited by: mietla ]
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Easymo:
1. Get on the PA and tell the passengers to kill the amazinhunk with the knife.
2. Land the plane ASAP.
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I posted a Hollywood scenario. It is full of holes, our I would not have posted it. Although the holes are not the ones mentioned. The phone call originates in Saudi Arabia (easily arrange), not from where the "family" is being held. The pilot was chosen specifically for his projected response.
I can think of others that have far fewer holes. And given 6 months, and money for research, I could fill those. Having guns onboard would just supply me, as a terrorists, with an easy way to control the passengers.
The big problem with these guys is that they are relived of 90 percent of the planning that normally go's into a criminal act. How to get away with it. These are suicides. All their focus can be on completion of their mission. Not one moment has to go into planning how to get away with it. Or the safety of the "troops"
BTW. If I where a terroiest. My next plan would have nothing to with planes anyway. Y ou dont hit where expected.
[ 12-24-2001: Message edited by: easymo ]
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"Controlling the passengers"
IMHO 9-11 ended any hope of "controlling" passengers. If people are convinced they will die why continue to be cowed by a handgun or knife? This is why easymo is probably right-on about the next attack. The airliner gambit is no longer a viable option.
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You can not protect against lone crazies. Just thank Cod that that is what they are: crazy.
He is gonna light off C4 in his shoes with the fuze from a firecracker and a match?! Come on, this dude is a moron, not a threat.
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Come on, this dude is a moron, not a threat.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
smart people can be predicted, they will generally make reasonable moves.
stupid people are completely impossible to predict, anything sounds like a logical move to them
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Originally posted by Gadfly:
Come on, this dude is a moron, not a threat.
Yah, he's such a moron that he got aboard an AA flight from Paris to Miami with (according to the FBI) explosives powerful enough to have caused a "major disaster."
Only thing he really fouled up was using the wrong initiator.
Threat? Yep.
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Local security stopped him multiple times, both here and overseas. Israel flew him in the back of the plane next to an air marshal. In the US, government authorities did not check too hard into him even though he had been singled out for further checks by airport security.
edit - he looks like hell in the first few pics because he continued struggling even after getting swarmed, so someone onboard with sedatives gave him multiple injections until he calmed down. He's drugged out of his mind in most of the pics taken right after the event.
Of course, after all this hubub about security being too lax, people are squeaking about a pilot who kicked an armed presidential bodyguard off a flight because things didn't seem right. Which way are we going to do it? Let someone on a plane that EVERYONE thinks is odd because the rules say you can't discriminate against him, or err on the side of caution and let security or other airport/airline personel refuse transportation to people who don't quite check out?
Given the choice, letting a bomb-weilding freak onboard or delaying an innocent armed man, I think I would prefer to err on the side of caution. Cancel the whole flight if it makes you feel better, but absolutely do NOT allow people onboard without thorough checks if they've been noticed as potential security risks.
IMHO.
[ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: eagl ]
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C4 burns when lit with a match, it doesnt explode. In Vietnam U.S. soldiers would sometimes take the C4 out of claymore mines and use it for cooking fuel. It will only explode when ignited with an electrical charge.
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fdiron, so you mean a conventional dynamite cap + fuse won't explode c4?
The cap is a metal cylinder the size of the cap of a pen, yet effective enough to blow a finger off easy. It does not require electricity in any form, they were widely used for detonations just a couple decades ago.