Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Zuum on March 05, 2007, 05:12:56 PM
-
This is gonna get wild...I wonder, what difference does it make to choose between cal.50 and 30mm Mk108 at all? From now on, I see no reason to choose the 30mm...That gun really seems to be totally ineffective against american bombers...
Take a look at this film and, please, count those hits on bombers with a 30mm Rheinmetall-Boersig. You gonna be surprised how tough those big birds seem to be...
Film is here:
http://www.rubricum.com/files/indestructable.ahf
So far, as I can count...I read at least 10 to 16 cannon hits at critical points in those bombers.
They caused just minor disturbing...or, hardly scratched them. As a matter of fact, they caused no real damage at all.
I never knew before, that americans made bombers out of titanium already at `40s...
IRL, the efficiency and power of MK108 was something else...please, take a look at this fact sheet:
MK108
http://www.luft46.com/armament/mk108.html
Comments are wellcome.
P.S. I have to point this discussion to another thread concerning same things:
Another discussion concerning the same oddity
Skuzzy & Hitech...I rely on the hope, You have some sort of good "tech-spec" explanation for this oddity. That is not just a question of "pings, delays, etc..etc...
-
I've just had a disorientating attack of deja vu.
-
I have just a feeling, that phenomena is a "deja-vu"...
-
Maybe it's just you?
-
How do you know they were cannon hits and not mg hits? From watching the films, you sure did a lot of damage. One of the 24s had two engines out and was missing a rudder as well as having 3 engines trailing smoke. The other bomber was trailing smoke as well.
On a couple of the passes it looked like you were hitting spots on the plane that wouldn't have neccesarily been critical hits, as in hits on the fuselage or mg hits on the trailing edge of the wings. Chances are you would have wounded or killed some crew, but it also might have just punched holes in the aluminum skin.
I think assuming those sparkles were all cannon hits might be part of the problem as your mgs were firing as well. And all the attacks were slashing attacks done quickly. What's the rate of fire on that nose cannon? How many rounds would have been fired.
I guess in the end I didn't see anything that makes me think HTC has done something wrong with the bombers. When I hit bombers I try and concentrate the fire on one wing or the other, sawing it off. Your fire was never concentrated on one particular point.
And as one who dies way too often to bomber gunners, I'm NOT a big buff fan :)
-
BTW, when I am on my ride with 109K4....I don´t use mgs....I rely on cannons only.
All those hits are made with 30mm cannon.
And You can see that on film.
Those "sprites" are different between Mg´s and cannon.
Got it?
-
Originally posted by Zuum
BTW, when I am on my ride with 109K4....I don´t use mgs....I rely on cannons only.
All those hits are made with 30mm cannon.
And You can see that on film.
Those "sprites" are different between Mg´s and cannon.
Got it?
LOL got it. Saw the MGs firing, or at least there was muzzle flash and flame coming from them.
Still doesn't change my feeling about it.
But since you are grumbling, lets look at it again.
Screenshots from your film. Pass 1. Sure looks like your MGs are firing with your cannon.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/861_1173139728_snap3.jpg)
Still pass one. Only one hit sprite visible on the film. Rudder is flying off the drone and it's beginning to leak something.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/861_1173139716_snap5.jpg)
-
Pass 2. 1 hit sprite visible on the film. Number 4 engine on the drone starts smoking.
Pass 3. By far the most damaging. 3 big hit sprites on the lead 24. One is right in front of the cockpit. Not neccesarily a fatal hit, although I'd guess the bombardier is dead. 2nd hit is right in the # 2 engine. it immediately starts throwing oil and quits. 3rd hit is right in front of the waist gunners. Again someone probably died or was wounded but not a vital hit.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/861_1173139702_snap7.jpg)
Pass 4. 1 hit sprite. Number 4 engine on lead bomber. Again oil shows immediately and the engine shuts down. 2 engines now dead on lead bomber and rudder knocked off one side.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/861_1173139688_snap9.jpg)
Pass 5. No hit sprites visible. Number 3 engine on lead bomber starts smoking but continues to run.
Pass 6. No hit sprites visible. Looks like you missed him completely on that pass and then you are hit by return fire.
BTW what I first thought were hit sprites on your last two passes turned out to be the sun glinting off the ball turret. It shows as a small bright spot on those passes from below.
-
Guppy...You go all wrong.
From the basics on...
Go to starting point.
;-)
-
ah, just shoot the cockpit, problem solved:)
-
Corky...
I saw much the same as you. Lots of engine and fuselage hits. I did see a few on the main spare (who knows..another hit there might have broken a wing off). Over all, most of the hits weren't concentrated...they were from nose to tail and wing tip to wing tip.
-
oh god zuum not again...
you can't blame your cruddy shooting on HT rofl. make sure that there's nothing giving you rubber bullets, make sure vsync is turned on.
personally i often down any buff with at most 3 30mm hits. you just need to aim right. cockpit or just above and behind the cockpit on the top of the fuselage are one hit kills.
also, your angle and speed effect your damage. try making a fast high pass from high 6 o'clock and aim for the front of the fuselage. couple of hits and pop!
-
Originally posted by Whisky58
I've just had a disorientating attack of deja vu.
Good evening. Tonight on 'It's the Mind', we examine the phenomenon of déjà vu. That strange feeling we sometimes get that we've lived through something before, that what is happening now has already happened. Tonight on 'It's the Mind' we examine the phenomenon of déjà vu, that strange feeling we sometimes get that we've ... (looks puzzled fir a moment) Anyway, tonight on 'It's the Mind' we examine the phenomenon of déjà vu, that strange...
Sorry, I had to
-
I don't have great gunnery but every fighter Ive hit with even a single round of 30mm had popped something off important like a tail unit or wing, bombers usually go down in one pass.
*shrug*
-
lol of course right after I post this I hit a Typhoon's tail in a deflection shot while in my K4 firing only the MK108 and it didn't fall off, though I did get the kill for him when someone else finished him off.
-
Great film, I feel much better about my own abyssmal gunnery.
Lots of hits on the fuselage, no hits on the wingroot, most of the first hits are MG, seems like his only cannon hits are fuselage, rudder, and engines.
Next time, press the attack instead of running away from him, and try to hit the wingroots. 24s catch on fire as well as the a6ms.
-
Originally posted by Zuum
Guppy...You go all wrong.
From the basics on...
Go to starting point.
;-)
This is what i took from Guppy35's most Excellant Breakdown of your Ability's in a 109-K Vs. a B-24.
Guppy35:What did the 5 fingers say too the face?
Zuum:Huh?
Guppy35:SSLLLAAAAPPPPP!!!!!!
-
Bombers can and will soak up 30mm unless you place it properly.
If you concentrate one pass on any one of the engines of a 24 and you will have it down in less than 10 rounds.
Also, Zuum, use your mgs and set all guns to converge at 200 or 175.
Think about it.... mgs are 13mm bullets, right? times that by two and you've got 26mm passing through one point. Add your 30mm to that and you have 56mm of hit at one point.
Make sure you're not banking too steeply as to 'pull' the 30mm away from from the mgs.
Use the 30mm as a knife, not a gun. Get in close, get close and stick 'em in the heart.
Don't fire until you see that magic '200'.
-
SAPP told HTC we would allow some alchoholic beverages make their way into HTC HQ as long as the 30mm was nerfed. Apparently they got their beer;)
-
Originally posted by Sweet2th
Guppy35:What did the 5 fingers say too the face?
Zuum:Huh?
Guppy35:SSLLLAAAAPPPPP!!!!!!
:lol
-
No one said any thing about my kill at the begining of the film!! I smoked that other B24, like spanking a red headed step child!Hey Zuum, I have the same complaint with that 30mm. I tried to
ya but you had logged. :aok
-
Originally posted by dog1
I have the same complaint with that 30mm. I tried to ya but you had logged. :aok
Welp, you have to remember that it's not how many times you hit...it's WHAT you hit. My point is that from what I saw in Zuum's film, he never hit the same spot twice.
-
And i'm glad he did'nt!! I landed two kills on that one...HEHE. It takes good aim with the 30's. And it just get frustrating, seeing the big sprites, and not much happening. I rather attack the buffs with 20mm or 50cals. Nothen like makeing a buff burn wth the 50's:D
-
See my post in the Bug Forum!