Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Badger on October 24, 2000, 06:13:00 PM
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Hello all.... <S>
Our flightsimsonline eGroups business forum has recently been discussing the following material, which I haven't seen referenced anywhere on this BBS as yet, so I'll publicly ask the obvious questions on behalf of current Aces High subscribers. Apparently, there is a new HTC (public?) marketing program, which some trial members are now receiving email information on as follows:
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Subject: Aces High $19.95 Special Offer
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You have received this email from HiTech Creations because your email address is included in the Aces High registry of new accounts.
This email was intended for xxx@xxx.com
If you wish to be excluded from Aces High email correspondence, please click on the link below.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/survey.pl?Email=xxx.xxx.com (http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/survey.pl?Email=xxx.xxx.com)
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Dear John Doe:
Thank you for taking the time to fly with Aces High, the premier WWII multiplayer flight sim game online today. We enjoyed having you as a guest and are writing to you today because you have been selected to participate in a special market research project.
HiTech Creations, creator of Aces High, is conducting a survey to collect valuable information for our marketing efforts and product development. As part of this effort we have developed a limited time offer for you to join our game online. We've made arrangements for you to join the ranks of massively multiplayer flying for only $19.95 per month, unlimited months, unlimited flying until you delete this account. That means unlimited flying at a savings of $10.00 per month just for answering our survey.
Simply complete our 10 question survey and you may take advantage of the special offer. With the upcoming release of 1.05, you'll get to take part in the best naval action available online, complete with player-controlled fleets, carrier planes, shore bombardment, and PT boats.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/survey.pl?LoginID=johndoe (http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/survey.pl?LoginID=johndoe)
To take advantage of this limited offer simply use your LoginID:johndoe and password:freebie to activate your account for just $19.95 per month. This offer expires as of midnight on 10/30/2000 and is restricted to those individuals who were selected to participate in the survey.
Don't delay, respond today and join the ranks of some of the best pilots online!
Sincerely Yours In Flight,
DOUG 'PYRO' BALMOS
P.S. You can still help us improve Aces High by completing the survey even if you choose to not take advantage of this offer.
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IMHO as a $29.95/month full paying member, I have some real problems with this marketing move. A great idea, but badly implemented.
In essence, according to the phrase:
"We've made arrangements for you to join the ranks of massively multiplayer flying for only $19.95 per month, unlimited months, unlimited flying until you delete this account. That means unlimited flying at a savings of $10.00 per month just for answering our survey."
IMHO, HTC has just created a two tier class system of membership, penalizing current members. An unknown number of new players who have just signed up and answered a few questions get to save $120 U.S. per year as long as they're a member, while people who have supported HTC all the way throughout the beta and signed up normally, plus have contributed immensely on this BBS to assist in design ideas, identify bugs and contribute free time to help arena operations, will be continuing to pay $29.95/month to play Aces High as long as they're a member.
I have to assume that there simply has to be another unannounced dimension to this program that involves currently subscribed $29.95/month members. If there is in fact another shoe to drop for current members to get equivalent savings, or I've completely missed the point, then my apologies. If not, well, what can anyone possibly say...... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
The mistake? It should have been a limited 60 or 90 day lower membership fee, not a lifetime $10/month reduction for five minutes worth of work answering the following questions:
A quick paraphrase of the highly complex survey:
I play other online WWII flight simulator games Yes No
I had trouble installing Aces High Yes No
I had trouble running Aces High Yes No
I had trouble getting online Yes No
I had trouble configuring for my first flight Yes No
I had trouble with my joystick Yes No
Aces High was easy to get started flying Yes No
I currently play head-to-head (H2H) Yes No
I would tell my friends to download Aces High Yes No
My age group:
Under 20 20 - 30 30 - 40 40 - 50 50 - 60 Over 60
Sometimes you just have to stand and gaze in wonder. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
HT or Pyro, if we all email you in the answers, can we all save $120 U.S. per year?
Regards,
Badger
Looking for a different kind of environment to discuss your favorite on-line flight simulator?
http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline (http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline)
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Sounds good to me, I'm paying $10 extra/month to ensure the steady arrival of inexperienced targets. Plus they save more money with which to buy me beer. If someone ends up playing for 10 years at a discount, no sour grapes here.
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Fatty
Fat Drunk Bastards (http://fdb.50megs.com)
"Studies show that over 95% of whines come from whiners."
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I don't have a problem with this,, sounds like a good marketing Idea ( think i'll use this for my business, THANKS FOR THE IDEA!!!!!)
NUTTZ ( and no, i wasn't surveyed )
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I will wait for the smoke to clear before I post. Yes, methinks that is a good approach.
Yeager (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I'll tell you what, I had to Canx my account cause my credit card was maxed out. My financial situation just wouldn't allow the $29.95 per month expense.
If I could get back in at $19.95 a month I would have to talk to the wife, real hard, about this.
Then again, I could hope that this is in response to the $24.95 flat rate from iEN, and iEN drops to $17.95 a month, and then HT drops to $14.95 a month.
I know HT's $29.95 saved me money over iEN, I ain't back at iEN at $24.95 a month.
For $19.95 I would definetly sprechen mit die vife und zee if I could zign back up.
Though $14.95 would be better.
Badger is there a reason you did this on the AH forum, and not Dogfighter or some more nuetral forum?
Any hollering, screaming, moaning and complaining on AGW?
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"Looks Mean as Hell! Clare Lee Chenault.
(http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1/06212.gif)
When?
"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
[This message has been edited by Downtown (edited 10-24-2000).]
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Hey Fatty, when are you at BW3? I'll come buy you some wings and a beer with my savings.
Lizking
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This has nothing to do with Aces High the simulation... this has to do with HTC's business & marketing practices... and being so I don't really know why it is being discussed on this board. What I pay, or someone else pays, is really only HTC's business. People pay different prices for the same cars all the time... It's possible the survey means very little to them... but they are testing to see whether more people bite at 19.95 instead of 29.95. More power to them. If it makes more financial sense to them to charge 19.95 to everyone... I'm sure that is what they will do. Either way... none of our business really.
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No Big deal to me here either always said Id pay 29.95 a month.
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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
Indians Home page were links to help pages can be found.
Indian's Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/~tltoon)
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Dunno Gadfly, we're about due though. Don't think I can this weekend, but I'll see when we can get the local boys out and let you (and I guess Udie too, or we'll hurt his feelings) know.
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My money IS my business and I kinda taste something nasty in this cake....
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Well. My initial reaction was a blistering fast knee jerk pro-HTC-defense post that more or less would have asked why you hadn't kept this to email with Pyro or HiTech. Guess I'm so hooked on this sim and company that I'm ready to "put up the dukes" when something comes along that shakes the tree.
But that's not needed, they're big boys (and gals) and from what I tell they have buckets of confidence so my help isn't needed (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Nor would it be warranted. I'd not seen the talk on the Egroup today so this kind of took me by surprise. But I'm hoping hope a good discussion evolves from this that helps clear things up and might show the community here what the method behind the madness is.
I guess I'm also cringing alot at the thought of another sh&t storm topic gathering steam here. Filters... Game Police..F4U-1C's, Osties, Late war vs Early war... etc, etc.
I wouldn't turn down a $10 per month drop in price but I REALLY want HTC to succeed, and succeed very well at that. And just as much, maybe more so (a bit selfish I guess) I want the development pace to stay where it was and hopefully not slow down in the least.
If this is a marketing move that might help bring in folks, then fine. I hope they are good people and not the guy with the unlimited ammo Lancaster types. I'll still happily pay my $30/mo because I feel like I'm getting my value from the product. The product is oustanding, the service is superlative and just look at the lengths that Skuzzy and HTC go to ensure our connections are as good as they can deliver. If others feel differently well, that's fine too.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 10-24-2000).]
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Maybe they are just dipping a toe into the water to see what price point will get them some more volume? If so, my guess is that they will set the price for everyone at what works.
Lizking
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You must all be the guys that see a house for listed at $150,000 and ask if you can pay more. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif) God people are weird and it proves how good the economy is. Can anyone tell me how to get on the mailing list?? So I can kill you for $19.95 a month from now on. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/confused.gif)
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Think about this REALLY HARD PEOPLE!!!
WB went flat rate at 24.99$ unlimited while AH was 29.99$...
Now AH comes around to 19.99$ ...
See a patern here ?
I thought so.. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
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I want $19.95 a month. I have already paid them alot of money doesn't that mean I should be entitled to the perks BEFORE new members????
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Hi
$19.95 Sounds good te me. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
thanks GRUNHERZ
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This really hasnt bent my wookie,
I dont know whos on the list or why.
I trust HTC to be fair, its been proven to me! I think in reality this is great news.
Camel
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I just want to know how to make all the cool smiley faces i'm seeing in these messages.
Oh! and price war with WB sould suit me fine
(hmm if i put HTC bill on a visa that gives points to US air miles I am getting frequent flier miles to fly AH :-) )
Chaunc
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Agree with Fatty..
Ill pay 29.00 no problem, if HTC marketing has a way of drawing in new blood, good for them. Damn good marketing as far as i can see..
I would like to see more targets up..
WTG Pyro..
One other thing, i would not like to see the rate drop below $29.95.
Dog out...
[This message has been edited by Wardog (edited 10-24-2000).]
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Just to clarify things here... it looks to me like HTC is sending this to folks who tried a trial account but DID NOT subscribe after trying the 2 week trial.
They seem to be doing two things here.
****(This is just my Wild Assed Guess)****
1st, trying to retain some folks who try the game but don't end up subscribing. 2nd, trying to find out what the key reason is that these folks don't subscribe after the trial period. This is very valuable information to HTC.
There is a possible positive here for the HTC community in general. I'm sure if HTC finds out that the price is a big problem as opposed to other problems, the regular price could very well drop. If they can find out what the major reasons are that folks don't subscribe and fix those, there will be more folks in AH, and the price may drop. Additionally, if all goes well, HTC may end up with more income that will help them to develop the game.
This is just good business. This is all good IMHO.
As a community, the best thing we can do to get a lower price in the future is to get more folks into this game. Tell your friends, tell everyone about Aces High. Do what you can to help new folks into the game. Remember, every time you say "RTFM" when somebody asks a question you are keeping the price higher and/or HTC's resources lower. We trainers will try to do our best, but we need the help of the entire community to make AH a place folks will want to stay.
Cheers, and here's hoping HTC gets lots of new customers and lots of great feedback from this special offer.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
(http://tuweb.ucis.dal.ca/~dconrad/ahf/lepht.gif)
"My P-47 is a pretty good ship, she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip.
Just thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip, always got me through so far."
- Steve Earl
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Well, my $0.02 here...
I think if there are others flying the exact same sim as I am in the exact same arenas, that I should pay the same rate they are.
I don't think it is fair to current customers to either have them subsidize the newbies or to not give them "preferred" pricing when they have been ponying up the cash all along. Just because we have been paying $29.95 so far doesn't mean we should continue to if others don't don't have to and the discriminator is "new account".
I wouldn't have any problem at all with this if it was an introductory rate that after some time was moved to be in line with what we pay now. However, if this is a real e-mail and a real promotion, and these new players will maintin this pricing structure, then I resent that as a paying customer, I get second tier treatment.
I'm going to look into this further, but if newbies are getting regular subscriptions for $19.95 while we are expected to keep right on at $29.95, then I'll cancel my account and come back at $19.95 if that offer is extended or not come back at all.
Personally, I don't like this marketing ploy. To offer better rates to others just tells me that existing customers don't matter - at least not as much as our money.
This kind of pricing scheme works when prices go up for new subscribers - to keep existing customers at a preferred rate. However, it does nothing but cause big trouble as implemented here.
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ASSUMING this is not a troll....
I have a problem with this issue. Previously we were all flying for one rate. Now there appears to be a staggered rate. The service is all the same as far as I know. The $30.00 was for unlimited flying 24 / 7 and we all were told that was the deal. Now later after the several patches,versions and teething problems we have paid to help with another group of players has been not just accepted but recruited deliberately with an offer of the same product and conditions for one third less.
If this price change has been made across the board for all I have no problem with it. If this is a new change and all of us who have been playing are now less valuable as customers to HTC, I got a problem.
In previous areas of business I have seen "perk" rates for those who start into a product early and help develop it. Later customers coming into a business that is running smoothly pay a higher price for waiting. This recognizes the value of those who helped get it started. Doing it the other way seems to be a manner of punishing current customers for staying on. Yep we thought it was worth $30.00 a month as that was what HTC told us it was worth. Now it is worth $19.95 a month but we get to continue paying more..... Something is wrong here.
I sincerely hope this is a troll as I will be very unhappy if it is true, UNLESS the current customers get the same treatment.
I suppose a litmus test on this will be if this thread gets deleted or locked without explanation.
I hope Pyro tells us what the score is soon.
Mav
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I share Mav's sentiments 100%, he put it better than I could <S>
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I'm sure someone from HTC will explain this to us in due time, since of course, they're gonna have to now that the beans have been spilled.
Who knows? they may have been working on some email offers or something and it accidentally got sent out prematurely.
You know, like a few weeks ago when the professionals over at that other simm prematurley shot their HTML up to the website before the big guy gave permission.
Maybe this isn't the case.
It'll all come out soon enough...
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This is not intended as a marketing ploy to just bring us new customers, it's to gain information about pricing and some other things. It's something that you as a consumer are subjected to everyday whether you realize it or not. We've selected a group of people based on a number of factors and have used them to test out different price points. We can take that information and crunch the numbers and have a good idea whether a different price point would make more sense for us. If we find that to be the case, then everyone benefits. We didnt' put a limit on the duration of the rate because it's the information that we're after and to do that would taint the results.
We know that it seems exclusionary to our core supporters and that's been our chief concern in doing this, but given the choice of not exploring this or going about it in a reckless manner, we think that this is the best option. The goal is not to have multiple price points, it's to have the best price point. If things work out the way we want them to, we'll all benefit.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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The point is, however, that the price of $19.95 has been locked in for those who sign up under this plan.
The rest of us, who gave you the information that we would sign up at $29.95 are stuck with the $29.95 rate until you decide (if you decide) to lower it - while those who signed up at $19.95 are guaranteed that rate from now on:
We've made arrangements for you to join the ranks of massively multiplayer flying for only $19.95 per month, unlimited months, unlimited flying until you delete this account.
Now that I know this situation is true, and as a current and paying customer I am now second-tier, I will be supplying more information for this experiment - I'm cancelling my account.
Done. Cya guys. I've really enjoyed flying with a bunch of you.
[This message has been edited by Renfield (edited 10-24-2000).]
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Okay Pyro, you've done what the experiment wanted.. Renfield has finally left the building!
<standing ovation>
hehehehehe
-SW
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See there!
I don't give a rip. Maybe its a questionable practice, I don't know or care. I'm having a good time for 30 bucks a month. Let 'em do what they wanna with their polling plan. Its really their business. Lets not try to make their business decisions for them.
Have a beer pyro. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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heh. Yesterday you were fine with paying $30. Today you found out a couple of people got a lucky break. Ah well, see ya.
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Fatty
Fat Drunk Bastards (http://fdb.50megs.com)
"Newer studies show that over 97% of whines come from whiners."
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First I thought I should quit sending money across the Atlantic but now I think I'll stay a while and look where this leads.
(wondering who leaked this out and what could happen IF the leak wouldn't happen?)
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Renfield, just to make sure I got this straight. You would have been fine as a customer if we didn't bother to explore cheaper pricing for our customers?
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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No one worried about 29.95 before. I just hope the price doesn't go up. If new blood is needed to help push AH to new hieghts, they can give it away. More power to hitech and pyro for any inovation that improves our game.<S>
sax
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Hey, it got me back within 5 minutes of the Email.
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I hope Badger didnt check the "E-mail me when replied" button when he posted this. :)
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48FG Checkertails
Lake City
-lakc-
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Lizking, you signed up?
I had a witty reply to Renfield.(well in my mind anyway) But my conditioning prevents me from posting it.
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Originally posted by Staga:
First I thought I should quit sending money across the Atlantic but now I think I'll stay a while and look where this leads.
(wondering who leaked this out and what could happen IF the leak wouldn't happen?)
Given from what I've seen from this and the WB community...it would have leaked out, no problem...the proof is in this thread.
Hell, let them explore the options and then lower the price.
Cobra
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Thanks for the pricing `test' HTC! Some of the memebrs of my Squad will now fly here because of the lower price (Yes, it does make a difference..and hopefully a big enough difference to lower it for everyone.)
As to how you implemented this, I sure can't knock it. The bottom line has to be in the black, and if you can increase your customer base first, then lower the price to keep everything running well, more power to ya!
I thank you guys for at least exploring this avenue in the hope of benefiting everyone, the players and HTC.
<S>
(http://www.devildogs.com/vmf111/sdsig2.gif)
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Damn straight. I canceled my EQ accounts and signed right up. Now if it would let me into the arenas, I would give it a whirl.
Lizking
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Originally posted by Pyro:
You would have been fine as a customer if we didn't bother to explore cheaper pricing for our customers?
Yep. I signed up at $29.95 and helped support the development of the sim - along with the rest of your current customers. To learn that you guys are giving people who didn't support your company a 33% discount is, well, a slap in the face.
Certainly I wish HTC the best and hope that you guys can recruit many customers. However, I think that to give the newbies a permanent rate of $19.95 while not doing the same for your existing customers is an insult. Experiment or no.
You are right - $30 was fine... fine until I found out that there were different rates for newbies for the exact same account.
If you went to a car dealership knowing that someone just bought a Super Coupe for $XX,XXX.XX, you be willing to pay 50% more for the exact same car? I don't think so. We are (were) paying 50% more than the new guys.
Introductory pricing is one thing, but a guaranteed permanent lower rate is entirely different. In my opinion it's bad business to treat existing customers like this. If you guys are going to lower the price for some, you should lower it for all.
This is just my choice. Anyone who wants to keep paying $30 per month is certainly free to do so. I am not calling for anyone else to follow suit. I am just stating that I am unwilling to pay more than those who decided not to pony up and support the sim earlier. Nothing more. Nothing less.
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I know 19.95 a month will bring more over from Air Warrior and some of the other cheap arcadish fighter sims, no testing needed.
[This message has been edited by Pappy (edited 10-24-2000).]
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Actually, Reinfield, speaking for myself, I have flown it since day one(ish) of beta and maintained a paid account for 3 months when it went pay. This offer did not go to Newbies, I don't think; it went to previous paid account holders.
Lizking
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Originally posted by Pyro:
This is not intended as a marketing ploy to just bring us new customers, it's to gain information about pricing and some other things. It's something that you as a consumer are subjected to everyday whether you realize it or not. We've selected a group of people based on a number of factors and have used them to test out different price points. We can take that information and crunch the numbers and have a good idea whether a different price point would make more sense for us. If we find that to be the case, then everyone benefits. We didnt' put a limit on the duration of the rate because it's the information that we're after and to do that would taint the results.
We know that it seems exclusionary to our core supporters and that's been our chief concern in doing this, but given the choice of not exploring this or going about it in a reckless manner, we think that this is the best option. The goal is not to have multiple price points, it's to have the best price point. If things work out the way we want them to, we'll all benefit.
Pyro,
Just a point here and for what it's worth I happen to agree with Renfield.
You already have a defacto price differential. You have promised a non expiring price of $19.95 for a select few.
HiTech Creations, creator of Aces High, is conducting a survey to collect valuable information for our marketing efforts and product development. As part of this effort we have developed a limited time offer for you to join our game online. We've made arrangements for you to join the ranks of massively multiplayer flying for only $19.95 per month, unlimited months, unlimited flying until you delete this account. That means unlimited flying at a savings of $10.00 per month just for answering our survey.
The scope of the target group is obvious. They are the ones who played for free and left. That is how you had their e-mails and names to form a set fixed number of low price permanent members.
Common sense would tell you that the main factor in not gaining a paid account after the free trial is the price versus the competition. They are similar products and in competition for the same market. Granted there are differences in scope and quality but it is still a fight for the air combat gamer. The competition happens to be setting lower prices than you are.
If you had examined it, looking at the price the competition charges (ie WB and AW3), you can tell what their price levels are and the amount of player support they have. Heck even going so far as to have an AH employee with an account in each of those business' and examining the influx of newbies would tell you if that was a success or not. Checking the various game bbs threads would do that as well.
Frankly I find it hard to believe that this is a price exploration. Doing what you have, setting up 2 pricing groups, is insulting to those who have been playing and paying the higher price.
This brings it to a head. You have stated you will give a $19.95 price for unlimited play to your "test" group. There is no expiration date on this offer. That means they have the preferential customer price as long as they want or until the game goes away or falls under new management.
That leaves you as a company only two choices. Maintain a tiered pricing structure where early (and later) customers and supporters get to pay a higher price or set the price the same for them all. You already have a price guarantee to one group now. Is it going to be the same to us all or are we not worthy of the same consideration?
IMO setting the $19.95 as unlimited time offer was a bad mistake. Doing it for 6 months would have told you the same thing.
Performaing a standard exit survey of players not starting a paid account could have gotten you a similar result. Do you really think the answers would be any more valid with a "price break" incentive versus an opinion without the "gimme"? By throwing in the incentive you have tainted the results.
Any polster who pays for "opinions" is only buying what they want to hear.
Mav
[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 10-24-2000).]
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Renfield, so in order to remain faithful to our customers, we should not look at offering them a cheaper rate? This rate is not for new customers, it's a test sample that we've chosen to explore new pricing options, the results of which can effect everybody. I guess I don't see how sitting tight and maintaining the status quo is better for the consumer than exploring cheaper pricing.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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Maverick, we undertook this with the understanding that people like yourself and Renfield would get bent out of shape over it and doubt our motivations. Because of that and other obvious things, this is not something that we went about for giggles, it is valuable information that we aren't garnering for the good of the industry and therefore aren't going to give you all the juicy details about what our sample market is and what the results are.
What I would like to know is what would you do to find the best price point? A- Leave it be and don't worry about it. B- Throw the dice, make the change and hope it works.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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My squad has only been in AH for about 3 months. I'll pay the 29.95 if I HAVE to because I think AH is worth it. On the other hand, we left half our squad in "another sim" solely because of price. I agree with Mav; a simple poll would have yielded the same results. If someone offered me the same product for less money than others are paying, who wouldn't take advantage?
I hope the strategy works, because I think AH is already an excellent product, and will surely evolve into even more. However, I think a simple poll would have yielded the same results with less friction. Just my .02
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
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Raub, the problem with a poll is that there's a whole lot of difference between saying and doing. If I were taking a poll on how much I would pay for something, I'd pick the cheapest price by default. How many people would realistically choose higher prices in a poll. What would the results be if the oil industry had a poll on what the price of gas should be?
<edit> Actually, gas is a bad example since it's a necessity rather than a luxury, but you can fill in an appropriate example.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
[This message has been edited by Pyro (edited 10-24-2000).]
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I'm hooked (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif), like many, I said I'd pay 29.95 a month a long time ago and it sure beats the amount I was paying for that "other" sim. Here you have quality service, quick response to problems, and a sim thats setting the standards for others to follow.
However I've heard others say they still consider AH in "beta" and won't pay until they see everything HTC says is coming down the pipe. Another one I know is a PTO nut and probably can't wait for that theater to open.
I can only say I'm as happy as a pig in poop right now.
BigJoe
[This message has been edited by BigJoe (edited 10-24-2000).]
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Originally posted by Pyro:
Maverick, we undertook this with the understanding that people like yourself and Renfield would get bent out of shape over it and doubt our motivations. Because of that and other obvious things, this is not something that we went about for giggles, it is valuable information that we aren't garnering for the good of the industry and therefore aren't going to give you all the juicy details about what our sample market is and what the results are.
What I would like to know is what would you do to find the best price point? A- Leave it be and don't worry about it. B- Throw the dice, make the change and hope it works.
I think I would have taken choice C.
Make a survey of those leaving before paying account status and another of those staying and paying.
The info would be just as valid and you would not have created the 2 price situation you now have.
Cmon, Pyro, do you really think people playing now at $29.95 would be unhappy if you lowered the price????
I understand you are looking at the bottom line and trying to set a working cash flow. That is basic business. I am sure you and HT looked over the competition for their prices, crunched the numbers with contracts in the area you chose to work and settled on a base price. It was rather pricey compared to other games available Hell I know you are competing with dissimilar games like Quake and tribes. They cost much less and offer correspondingly less.
What Renfield and I disagree with is the way you chose to find out the data you are receiving.
Would you feel good if your utility company suddenly decided to offer the same facilities to others for one third less and didn't give you the same price???
An exit survey of those who do not decide to pay and play with a survey of those who are paying would give the same data.
Mav
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So....
If I go to the mall and there is a sidewalk sale going on, I should yell at the vendor for offering a reduced price to customers? Especially when the competition is selling virtually the same product for less? Just because I had previously bought the product at the normal price?
Sit back and relax. If the price break is doable, we all benefit. If not, don't worry about it. Either you get $30 worth of fun a month or you don't.
And Pyro's point about whether you test the waters or jump right in is an easy call to make- if it isn't your livelihood on the line. Maybe I would do it their way, maybe I wouldn't but I certainly won't second-guess them. It's their jobs on the line, friends, and I doubt they want to have to start all over again in a couple months. I'm quite sure they've thought this over.
And a final point on the poll... remember when it seemed everyone thought a 10K field in the middle of the map would be cool? When everyone thought the Ostwind would be the best thing for the game since sliced bread? When folks yelled for a separate arena for Axis/Allies?
Fact is, people say one thing and do another, or very quickly change their minds after they try something they think they would like.
[This message has been edited by Kieren (edited 10-24-2000).]
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Kieren,
Your analogy is flawed. There is no mall offering AH through another source is there?
The same vendor is offering the same product to different customers and widely differing prices. The same data could have been determined without having done this.
Mav
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Well Mav, I guess it's a glass half full or a glass half empty type of deal. Either you're happy from the fact that we're looking at cheaper pricing or you're feeling screwed because we're looking at cheaper pricing. It's just a matter of your outlook.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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Some of you guys must be in LaLa land. Don't you think there are people with free accounts in AH, or WB for that matter? There are tons of them. It's part of business. The question is, what is the game worth for you.
I think Pyro's response was reasonable. They are are simply trying to establish a price point for maximum return. Once that price point is established it will be universal.
I should point out that I can understand some of you feeling slighted, when I heard about this the other day I knew people would scream hehehehehehe. Just remember that the guys are trying to do business and get inside the consumer's head, not cheat us. They could spend $50,000 on a market research company and get less valid info than the way they are going about now.
PS Badger. Did you hesitate before hitting the submit button? I didn't think you would do it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Translation of the above:
What ever price point works best will become the pricing for all. He ain't offering anyone HIGHER pricing, so My guess is the price is going down.
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Yes!!!
A few of my squaddies just signed up based on this. They are mostly complete gear heads (Falcon 4 - you know the type... but *damn* good sticks).
I've been trying for ages to get them here... This did it!
Excuse me... I'm kinda excited about this.
BRING ON THE BABY SEALS!! (er, my squaddies not included (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) )
<rubs his hands together> <slurp> <drool>
The way I figure it, I was paying 29 bucks for this yesterday. The sim is still great today, and I'm still paying 29 bucks. Same thing. These guys just happened to win a Lottery of sorts... it happens, they got lucky... And it means more players in our arenas. It's a good thing imho.
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Kieren (among others) has it right.
-This is not an offer for newbies.
-This is not for air-quake players.
-When you buy a car (Renfield...)
you do get a different price then the "other guy". (unless you buy a saturn (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
-If this helps HTC decide on a price point that helps lower the price while keeping HTC "alive", then so be it.
BTW
-I have "flown" AH since beta days.
-I can't afford it right now, but I am a proud "booster" of AH.
(last I checked..3 friends of mine are AH paying subscribers because of me)
-I host and fly H2H regularly.
-I report bug and have helped many newbies learn the basics so that they will like the game and hopefully stay and pay.
(some have)
To say that I have not "supported" HTC bug me.
I have done everything except pay $$ and will do THAT when my unemployed status changes.
I KNOW I have increased HTC's revenue.
I was presented the survey offer but unfortunately cannot even afford that price.
I WILL NOT complain if I get a job next week and then pay the normal $45.37 cdn to play online !
I think the chance for EVERYONE, HTC included, to benefit from this SMALL "test" is worth it. IF the price drops due to this "test", WE will all benefit from it.
Regards,
Snoopi
P.S. If anyone needs a Jr. Oracle OCP Certified DBA let me know, so I can explode in a fireball in front of more users. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Snoopi (edited 10-24-2000).]
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Well, in defense of HTC, I was one who took a trial period and did not follow through with a full account at the end of two weeks, and I did not receive a mail like that. I suspect the sample size for this test price was a relatively small group of:
1. Folks who signed up for a trial account, played a LOT of hours, but then did not move to a paying account; or
2. Folks who had a paying account for a while, spent a lot of time playing, and left.
I really don't see much wrong with the method, provided the testing pool is very small.
I think a better way to handle this would have been to offer three months at $19.95 to these people. With that, you still get the demographics on who would come to you at a cheaper price - and three months is a long enough time for folks to develop a playing pattern (ie., get hooked). Plus, with this method, you get the added demographic information on who actually keeps their plan when the three months expire and they moe to $29.95. Did the chance to try AH for three months hook them? That would have been valuable information. Spend 5 or 6 months with the above plan, then settle on a price point. If you don't go all the way down to $19.95, and settle on $25 or something, then at the end everyone is on the sape pricing plan.
Just my .02.
Spitboy -SW-
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Geesh, stop thinking so hard about it guys. HTC is doing this for everyone's benefit. If it works out, great, we all save a few dollars a month. If it doesn't, oh frickin well, a few guys got a cheap rate, and odds are they probably won't be sticking around if this move doesn't work, so it's no skin off your back.
P.S. I could be flying AH free on a media account, but I've gladly forked over my $48 bucks Canadian every month. Stop Crying.
[This message has been edited by Gman (edited 10-24-2000).]
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Molders Here (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
Please spare a thought for the guys that dont live in the U.S.A......
Im from Australia, and our dollar conversion is 53.54 cents to every Yankee dollar. So if its $29.95 its $60 odd dollars later for me. Hell people who have been here for a WHILE should atleast get some discount etc grrrrrrr
MOLDERS OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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LOL I can just imagine the reaction on AGW if IEN pulled this and got found out.
I guess most of the hardasses stayed with WB's
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Originally posted by Pyro:
Well Mav, I guess it's a glass half full or a glass half empty type of deal. Either you're happy from the fact that we're looking at cheaper pricing or you're feeling screwed because we're looking at cheaper pricing. It's just a matter of your outlook.
Pyro,
That is NOT the case. No where in my post did I say I did not want a lower rate. I am happy that you are looking for a lower rate. I would be very happy if it were lowered to $19.95. I don't think you would find anyone who would not like it of rates were lowered.
I am unhappy that you didn't even ask the current paying members what they thought about a possible price reduction or price change possibility to include a survey of potential rates. I am unhappy that you gave a select clientele a one third reduction in perpetuity without any guarantee of a reduction in what the rest of us are paying.
Obviously you have quite an emotional investment in this situation as you have taken a very defensive posture in your posts. I have to ask you why you think anyone should be happy that you offered permanent prices to others and not all.
Banks offer an "intro" credit card rate for a fixed time to start an account. The competition does the same to try and gain more customers. That is normal and those rates are set for a temporary time.
I fully understand the concept of determining a market price. But you have to understand that the customer doesn't have to like preferential pricing or treatment. That is the situation that has just been created.
Mav
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The value of an object is the price that object will bring.
Whats it worth to me?
As an experienced simmer; a long time flight sim addict with exceptionaly high demands for realism; accuracy; skilled adversarys and also as one who clearly remembers the grim days of flight sim bills that looked like mortgatge payments..
Then six months of flying FREE the best sim I'd seen yet.
---$39.95 a week woulda been a godsend!---
"At last; I can EAT FOOD again! The cat need not forage in the wilds for our supper any longer.."
And, miffed puppies, pinko Mao enthusiasts and tightwads aside; since when did it become un-american to make a profit?
10 bucks got yer panties inna bunch? Dammo.. I pity your waitress. Or do you begrudge the developers of a product you spend more face-time with than your wife or family the price of a decent tip for crummy service in a half-assed restraunt?
So tell us; tell AGW, tell the world about how these nasty salamanders at this evil game company set out to screw its customer base, and as pennance, they must forwith reduce my rate and all rates ....... !!! Damn.. go join the tree huggers, fer gawdsakes. The twit mouse needs protection; not US.
Hind tit suckin whiners. Begone with yah!
Hang
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Poll me Poll me!
'P.S. If anyone needs a Jr. Oracle OCP Certified DBA let me know, so I can explode in a fireball in front of more users.
"
wheres your email. You willing to relocate?
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I feel I must jump in to defend HTC for a second. I budgeted $50/month for Warbirds and made sure I didn't fly more than that. Towards the end, though, I was only flying $20-$25 or so. When Aces High came out I paid for it and budgeted $20 for Warbirds ($30+$20=$50). I ended up not playing Warbirds at all and flying Aces High more than I ever flew Warbirds. I also didn't have to worry about how long I stayed on. It also made it more relaxing to fly C47s, etc. because the clock wasn't ticking. Now I've cancelled my Warbirds account and think $30 is a bargain for Aces High. To hear that they are examining a lower price structure makes me think, "Cool, I may be getting an even BETTER deal." If they don't, it's still a bargain because I am getting $30 worth of fun every month. It's the easiest bill I pay.
Now, I recently heard that they gave Duma a free account to continue making his cartoons. I thought, "Man, that is so cool. If, or when, I run my own company, THAT is how I want to do it." Did I think, "HEY, that guy gets a FREE account an I don't just because he writes cartoons in his spare time?" No.
Does Renfield think it's OK to give the SAME product to Duma for making his cartoons?
I pay a price I think is fair for a product. I think $30 is a fair price. No matter what I read on these boards I will continue to think $30 is a fair price.
Incidentally, I knew if I scrolled down the page a little I would read a reply by PYRO because that is the kind of company HTC is. They even take the time to try to defend their actions person by person on the message boards. They don't owe us an explanation, and yet they give it. They take the rash actions of hotheads in stride and don't respond in kind. Rather, they remain rational. Thus far, I think many companies would do well to really study the way HTC does business. It is a near perfect operation and one that I would be proud to have founded and been a part of.
Rust
(http://home.earthlink.net/~rocketace/_uimages/rust.jpg)
The Free French Air Force
[This message has been edited by rust (edited 10-25-2000).]
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The week after I signed up for WB (back when they were $9.95 + 2/hour for everybody) they announced a deal where you could sign up for 6 months for a meager $30.
I didn't squeak then.
Come on, I want my habit to be as cheap as possible. But I also want those who enable it to be in business.
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I don't think it would have been as effective, or trustworthy, if it was only a 3-month rate, or anything temporary. You are trying to find out if people who previously quit the game will come back permanently if it was $10 cheaper. If I put myself in their shoes, and $20 / month is doable, then I think sure, I'll go for that. But if it's only $20 for 3 or 6 months, then $30 after that, I'll think: It's a gimmick, and then I won't be able to afford it when the time is up.
They have to find out this data, they need reliable numbers. This is a good way to do it. Look, you aren't talking about thousands of people here... You're talking about a small test group.
They need to find out if enough people will come back at $20 per month to make up for the loss in income that moving the full customer base to $20/month would entail. That's all. If only 5 out of 100 sign up, you know it's not feasible. If 80% or whatever the break even point is, do come back, then you know you can do it, expand your base, and move your existing customers to $20 per month.
This isn't (just) an "emotional" investment they have here. This is their livelihoods, folks. You can't expect them to not feed themselves so you can have it for less. THey have to find out if it's economically feasible to charge less per month. This is how they are doing it.
Yak
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Hiya Yak.
Dammo.. been awile since I've seen a fellow Pale Horse. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I hear the boys are thrilled with the new rates.. god bless, 'em; every one. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
<S!>
Hang
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I think you should bump it to $50.00 a month.
Its time to seperate the men from the nancy boys.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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As much as I love this game, $50 would be tough for me (unless I quit smoking). I am happy the way the pricing is. Would I like it cheaper? Hell yeah! Who wouldn't want to pay less for a quality product? Oh well, I will just sit back, enjoy the entertainment my $30 gives me each month. Should the price drop, I will be happy. Should it stay the same, I will be happy. I mean, hell, I have been happy since it went pay to play, why change now?
Oh well, I should quit rambling on something that I don't know much, if anything, about.
-math
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"Any American fighter near Orote Penninsula. I have forty Jap planes surrounded and need a little help."
-Ens. W.B. "Spider" Webb during the Marians Turkey Shoot
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Mav...either AH is worth $29.95 a month to you or it is not. If not, quit. If so, don't quit. What's the difference if a few guys are lucky enough to pay $19.95? It hasn't changed the sim that you subscribed to one little bit, except to add a few more players.
HTC's business plans are none of your business, and you should feel fortunate that Pyro actually cares enough to talk to you about it...he could have easily stopped after his first post which explained the situation nicely.
SOB
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Do what ya got to do HT & CO!
I'll be here flyin as always.
Nuff said
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What Fatty said! Lemme see, I pay the same amount, and I get more cannon fodder? WOOHOO! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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If all newbies were offered AH at $19.95 as long as they want their accounts, I could understand getting miffed about it.
But this is just a survey of a small group.
It seems that this game has a problem with new people only sticking around for their free two weeks and then splitting. I think HTC should do a test and offer AH free for two or three months to a group of new customers, let them become truly addicted, and see if a significantly higher % stay for pay.
Heck, myself and many of you had free months while AH was Beta!
All that really matters is that the price stays within reason so that HTC prosphers and we can continue to play for many years to come.
eskimo
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I am unhappy that you didn't even ask the current paying members what they thought about a possible price reduction or price change possibility to include a survey of potential rates.
Maverick, the whole point of this test is to find out how many additional accounts they would get at $19.95 so they can decide if those additional accounts would make up for revenue lost by lowering the prices for their current membership base. That is why it was limited to people that tried the game but didn't cough up a credit card number. If you include pricing opinions of the current membership, you are screwing up your data.
And as others have mentioned, there are people here with free accounts. Trainers and I assume CM's as well, maybe a few other people. Why do they get a free account? As a perk for helping HTC. The offer extended to the people responding to that survey is no different. And in the end, they might be helping you and me too.
Gordo
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Um....you guys are gonna love this. I just got an email from a mate that flew in here back in February who got offered this deal for $14.95 a month.....
Swoop
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Ive read that some people even got an offer of $10 an month for AH aswell, of course it could have been trolls...
Its gonna be an big sacrifice money wise if they are gonna lower the price on all the current accounts.
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
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First, I am not part of the select few lol.
But, even though I will most likely stick around after next week, I would find it easier to do if the price was 19.95 instead of 29.95. Especially hearing that a few folks will be signing up for less BEFORE I make that decision (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Times are tight and cash is low right now. More importantly, I know several folks who would fly here, but are scared off by the price tag. I cant even get em to try it right now. They all used to fly AW and would love this game, but they have wives and children and such and cant budget that extra $$, or don't feel they can. Not all of us have tons of disposable income. I do believe that lowering the price would bring more folks in, and that aint necessarily a bad thing. I will as I said, most likely stay on, even though it will stretch my finances to the extreme right now, because this thing rocks but where they will be getting one new customer they could have had 5. I don't think I am the only one that knows folks who would come here but for the price. $10 may not seem like that much difference but it is when you are explaining it to the wife (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Ketil out
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My .02$ here.
Maybe the only thing where Renfield and me agree, but for sure I dont think that this is fair. I understand that HTC wants to do a survey to see if they can get more people with 19.95$, and if it is worth the price disminution.
But I have problems to pay my monthly 29.95$ (I still havent payed this month so far, as I still lack 0.5$ to get the needed money...yes, yes .5$)...and to see newbie people with 19.95$/month forever because this ,is more than annoying, is sad for me.
I have troubles to pay this ammount of cash each month, but never whined about the price. It is (was) the same for all,it was fair.
Now there will be people paying 33% less than me forever if the experiment doesnt go well. And I can't stand that idea.
Euro depreciation against Dollar has made the price of AH for me inflate by some 30-40% since I first came here (my first payement to HTC was 4500ptas. now it is roughly 6000).
And now I aknowledge that there is an offer like this. I am paying 6000pesetas/month for this! and there is people flying for 4000? And not only that, but they will pay THAT as long as they keep their account open!?
Sorry,I can understand a survey like "would you join if we lower the price?", or even "if you do this survey you will pay 6 months at reduced price" but no a "I will lower your price forever if you do it now".
Is my humble opinion that, unaware, you have done a bad thing towards AH's community. I know nothing of business. yeah, right, nothing. But I know how do I feel now, and what will I feel when I put the money in the bank to pay an ammount of money that there are people not paying. And that I will have to pay forever if the experiment doesnt go well, while they will keep on paying reduced price.
I don't feel insulted, but I feel depreciated. And I'm not the worse case. I think in people who is paying the 30% of his monthly income (as some people has stated several times) to fly AH. How will they feel?!.
Well...I'd better go and collect .5$ to put in the bank and pay my 29.95...I am one week late for this month's paying (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 10-25-2000).]
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How about different price plans depends on planes?
Perk plan: $39.99 (Do-335, P-51H, Ta-152 etc)
Late war plan: $29.99 (P-51D,F4U-1C, etc)
Middle war plan: $19.99 (La-5, Bf109G6, FW-190A5, C205, SpitIX etc)
Early war plan: $9.99 (Bf109F, SpitV, C.202, LaGG-3 etc)
Pre-war plan: $4.99 (I-16, Buffalo, A5M, etc)
All plans can play in one Main arena (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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so I could pay 19$ and still do pretty good...kool (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) dont think thats gonna happen
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I have been paying $30 for a few months, I dont mind to keep paying it.
HTC is a *VERY SMALL* company. IF it was Microsoft doing this, I'd be PISSED.
HTC CANT lower the price to $20 for EVERYBODY RIGHT NOW. FACE IT. HTC IS NOT "THE MAN".
I believe they know what they are doing, and as soon as we have MORE customers around, they can then lower the price for everybody.
Put it this way: you are paying $10 extra for experience in this game. At least $10 discount can soften the blow for a newby of getting his arse kicked time and time again byt he more experienced players.
Face it, they are not having as much a good time as us. If you want to keep HTC alive, you have to let them find a way to bring more income. More income = better pices, more emplyes, MORE WORK DONE, FASTER PATCHES, ETC.
OR, they can just leave things like they are, and not experiment with new stuff.
to put it this way:
you are paying $30 now. Someone is paying $20. You feel betrayed (something STUPID cause this is a business). After a few months, YOU TOO WILL ALSO BE PAYING $20.
OR, you can WHINE about it, HTC will not try the pricing thing, and you will stay paying $30 forever.
Whatever, sometimes I cant explain myself.
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Originally posted by Animal:
you are paying $30 now. Someone is paying $20. You feel betrayed (something STUPID cause this is a business). After a few months, YOU TOO WILL ALSO BE PAYING $20.
OR, you can WHINE about it, HTC will not try the pricing thing, and you will stay paying $30 forever.
I will also paying 20$ if the experiment goes well. It can go bad. Whatever it happens some people have 20$/month guaranteed. I haven't.
I'm not a bussinesman, but I do know how I feel again. You might have no problems in accepting this whatever the result is (congrats, you have money for it). But I have problems in accepting this because I know that if something goes wrong I will be paying more than other people.
I will keep on AH as long as I can afford it, no matter the price is. My vision of HTC as a company hasnt changed, they are the best company and by far. I dont feel personally offended, and I am sure they never wanted this in this thing.
I simply think that they did this thing wrong, there are ways to see if the new pricing can go right without doing this.
I don't feel betrayed, I feel "different". It is unfair, so far I had no problems with the price because everyone payed the same...now that feeling's gone (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
As I said, put a 6 month lower rate money for the experiment, but not a life-time one, you see the results in both ways, but in the second you are makind a big difference between current customers and "experiment" customers. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Animal, si tienes pasta pa gastarte en AH, enhorabuena. para ti siguen siendo 30 pavos al mes. Para mi el precio va camino de doblarse, y mis padres no me dan ni la hora en cosas de pasta.
Me tengo que buscar la vida yo, comer yo en la uni todos los dias con MI dinero, pagar la gasolina del coche con MI dinero (a .8$ el litro, y con la universidad a 15km de mi casa)...
Lo unico que me pagan es la matricula, y gracias (bueno, fueron generosos y me ayudaron tambien con la mejora del ordenador). Lo demas me lo curro yo, yo solito.
No se como estaras tu, pero a mi el dinero no me sobra mas bien al reves. Ya ves, no puedo pagar pq me falta .5 $, tengo 5800 pesetas para meter en el banco, y AH me cuesta casi 5900. Pero no puedo pagar porque me faltan esas 100 pesetas. Triste, verdad?. Pues todos los meses estoy igual.
Tu pagas en dolares, un fijo. Yo cada mes pago un poco mas (puta inflacion!). Nunca me he quejado hasta ahora. Y creo q me quejo con razon.
Si no lo entiendes...pues ya lo siento. Pero me siento despreciado e indignado por esto.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 10-25-2000).]
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This gives a VERY bad taste to me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif).
Consider leavin', but will take another month of thinkin.
Maik
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My €0.02 here:
Since this offer, I have seen no less than 3 friends of mine come back to AH, and they are having a lot of fun now. I'm sure they are here to stay.
US Dollar is very high in the Euro zone and this pricing is definitely making a difference for some people.
I have also received -and turned down- the famous offer for my previous account, Scaramouche.
So, is this bad? It's not for all newbies, just for a selected minority, so I say "well done"!
I'm sure this is just a transition to whatever's to come, so I'll just be happy for now with all the new people coming in.
Fear the new resurgence of the 101 Escuadron de Combate Virtual ;-)
Daniel, aka CyranoAH
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Originally posted by RAM:
I think in people who is paying the 30% of his monthly income (as some people has stated several times) to fly AH. How will they feel?!.
).]
WOW! seems priorities arent straight, if money is that tight then I wouldnt be playing AH!
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I hate to go against the majority here but I'm kinda with Mav.
Firstly - I PERSONALLY am not unhappy about $30 a month (even though I can't afford it at the mo (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) ) I think it's a fair price for the product.
Secondly- Market testing of price points is absolutely necessary.
OK so here's the point -
The issue here is NOT, repeat NOT about price point it IS about the setting up of a PERMANENT 2 teir price structure covering the same customer group.[/i]
Multiple and preferencial pricing structures are commonplace in every enterprise - trade versus retail price, loyalty discounts, media freebies against advertising, free product for agents and suppliers. In my business it is commonplace for me to get 30% discount at auto stores for materials because I'm trade - that is normal.
However it is also normal for companies to carry out marketing incentives to attract new custom and investigate pricing. These incentives are temporary however. It works this way - you offer the product at a lower price and for a term that gives the customer time to build an opinion of that product, then you increase the price to normal levels and see if they continue to buy - this determines the "how much is this worth to me" level which everyone is spouting off about. You analyise the number of people who stop buying from the incentive group and then determine your price point. So after the incentive period you either lower the price across the board to the incentive level and get back the lost custom because a lot of people left, or maintain the current levels because they stayed and change your marketing approach - this is not rocket science.
Now with the approach HTC have taken we may well end up here with all of us on 19.95 accounts which of course would be nice - or we could end up with a 2 level system for exactly the same customer group - that is bad because you damage your customer loyalty.
Those who say "The price is what I'm happy to pay" then why not have HTC open accounts on a haggle basis - I can just see it now all done on e-mail
Sparks " how much for an unlimited account Pyro"
HTC " $100 a month"
Sparks "$100 !!!! - I'll give you $5 "
HTC "$5 !!! you wnat me to eat catfood?? I can't buy a network cable for 5 - $75 is a low As I go"
Sparks "$75 !!?? I can own a cessna for that - OK $10 "
And so on - you get my drift.
Hey - judging by the messages here maybe HTC should do that - they could make a killing from some folk (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Anyway - for me a pricing structure is that - the same price for the same customer. No I don't mind discount incentives - thats normal - but they should be temporary
Sparks
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It also can be an way of getting some fast and badly needed money on HTC´s part.
Once the ones who got this offer have signed up perhaps we will see this : "Sorry guys, the experement with different pricing plans did not work out we will keep the 29.99 pricing"
I still wouldnt get worked up about this if this was the case, HTC deserves some quick cash flow.
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
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I visited HTC back when I was an Alpha tester and the first question I asked HT was how he could make money at the low $29.95 monthly rate. I thought it was fair then and still think it's a fair price.
If this poll, experiment or whatever else you want to call it results in the reduction of the price to $19.95 then it will start costing me another $10 month.
You see, I made the mistake of taking my grandson to one day of the con and he won a joystick at the banquet, and he.... well you know how it works, he is 11 and lives with me. I set him up an account so he could play the 2 week free trial time under his own call sign and then it was understood that he would only be able to play in H2H after that.
If this price reduction comes about for all of us then I will be able to afford two accounts. One for him and one for me. It will be worth paying the higher amount for the undetermined time untill that happens.
$10 can make a difference. I think it will increase the player base considerably. I only hope it works out in a way that we all are happy with the results. I know I am not going to sit here and second guess what is going on "behind the scenes" as it were.
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MarkAT
"It is not the critic who counts,
it is the man in the arena..."
Teddy Roosevelt
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Do the people with the cheaper accounts get to whine about Chogs and Nikis and Spits OH MY? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Hey, if this means that I might be paying less in the future, then I'm all for it. Besides, Hitech & Pyro are no dumbies. They must've known that this move would eventually come back through the front door. And, still they pursued it. That shows me yet again that these guys are in it for the long haul.
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Where is my 19.95$/month e-mail????
I was a customer till about 1.04 at 30$/month.
Anyway, that show us that $$$ closes eyes, no respect for those that sponsored AH from the beginning.
What kind of answer hare u looking for whit that 19.95$ offert??? It's sure 100% that people start to play this game. The problem is always the same, AH is a great game but whit limited, LIMITED, # of significant aircraft (spit I, P40, Hurri, B25, Bf110, Ju87 ecc...).
results:
-strange commercial monouver
-interes in only late war planes
-very limited interes on bombers and dive bombers
-ammo bugs (F4U-C - c202) still present
I have always say that, now my fear are true.
HTC it's time to listen and to be onest whit customers.
PS: I hope to see a better game before the end of this year. (AH or not AH (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) )
Anhoter undiplomatic post from Visconti sry.
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Someone called this a slap in the face!!! Well my face isn't stinging, but my groin surely hurts!!!
Reminds me of where I work. I have been dedicated to the job and am told my reward is having my job. Yet new people come to the company and they get more money and a bonus for the exact same job description. And yes, my groin hurts then too!!
Some things never cease to amaze me!!
Have a nice day!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Maniac:
Once the ones who got this offer have signed up perhaps we will see this : "Sorry guys, the experement with different pricing plans did not work out we will keep the 29.99 pricing"
Um....no they wont Maniac. Cos if they did I'm positive a few lawyers would receive copies of the original email detailing the offer and then HTC would get a few summons's through the mail the following week. And I'm also positive Pyro knows this and isn't as green as he is cabbage looking.
(just an expression Pyro, I'm sure you dont really look like a cabbage) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
Swoop
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"Um....no they wont Maniac."
They would be in no trouble at all as long as the ones offered the new pricing gets to keep on paying the $19 or the $10 (got more confirmation about the $10 offer.)
An price change is bound to happen now, HTC has painted themselfs into an corner with 3 different pricing ""options"".
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
[This message has been edited by Maniac (edited 10-25-2000).]
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His upraised, open palm came sharply down upon the child's face.
*SLAP*
"Are you done? Is that enough?"
C'mon, I can't believe this. When I heard HTC was considering $19.95 a month for AH, I was happy. Of course, I don't mind the money I spend now, but savings are savings. That a select target group gets it before I do doesn't matter a bit. It also has nothing to do with me, because the offer is aimed at people who are on the fence. It isn't a loyalty issue at all, as some here seem to believe. It is about hitting the magic number that gives HTC the most money for the market.
That's right. HTC wants to make money. *SLAP*
It is all so incredibly simple to understand I can't even see how this is an issue. The competition is out there, fellas. Business is business. If HTC wants to offer a permanent rate for a select few pilots, fine.
It is the permanent nature of the offer that gives it validity. I might say "eh, 3 months, I can handle that" and take the offer knowing I will quit in the end- the only reason for taking the offer being its limited nature. By making it permanent, HTC gets to see what people would really do.
I realize if the pricing structure is lowered for all some will take their $10 savings and seek counseling for all the trauma this experiment has caused.
*SLAP*
That was for me, kinda starting to like it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Imo too many ppl are over reacting to this post.
These emails went out to a controlled group of ppl apparently. It's a survey and experiment for HTC simply put.
Kinda like all the griping ppl hear when they don't make it into a closed beta.
Folks get special offers for stuff all the time. Free coupons...survey's...things like this happen in the business world and I'm glad to see HTC on the ball in marketing and finding out how to better market their game.
Wingnut
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Okay, I'll let the cat out of the bag. Since last February I've joined and quit several times. HTC now pays ME $19.95 a month!
I figure that if I can keep this up I should be able to retire in a few years. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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OK, you guys are right.
HTC should offer AH for $10 a month, and if the company folds because their revenues drop by 1/2, that's OK because at least no one got a better deal than you.
And if WB bumps then their price up to $40 a month for their online cartoon, then what? What a deal that will be in the long run...
Most guys in my squad spend hundreds of dollars each year on their computers and joysticks. We all also spend $240 to $576 for a decent connect.
If you can afford a semi-modern computer and internet account, and you love this game, then the $359.40 a year that you pay HTC should seem like a pretty good deal.
eskimo
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Guys, don't you get it?
If they get a large majority of this small test group to come back to AH, then we will all get a permanent reduced rate! So what if a few people get a $10/month break for a few months? If it helps us all out in the long run(more people=more resource dollars, faster updates), then we should be happy that they're trying to do this.
If it works, WE ALL BENEFIT!
If it doesn't, well, then we can argue about that in a few months.
Either way, we all win. We'll either get a lower monthly price for AH, or we'll have something to really squeak about! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by banana (edited 10-25-2000).]
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AH's $29.95 a month is some of the best money I spend monthly... probably figures out to be about $.0000002 an hour. The problem with lower the price is the same as I saw in FA when they went to $9.95 a month. Too many punks. The FM will keep some out as it is easy for a newbie to get frustrated but they'll always be a flood of new obnoxious blood flowing in and out. Just keep radio ch 1 squelch an option please (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Eagler
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I pay whatever I feel is a worthy price for any entertainment service, if AH and WB's were both still flat rate, you'd still see me over here since I prefer this sim to the others. Price has no bearing when the entertainment outweighs enjoyment in return.
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Beware jealosy, for it is the green-eyed monster that mocks it's prey.
William Shakespear, from Othello.
(As close as I can come from memory.)
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Originally posted by eskimo:
If you can afford a semi-modern computer and internet account, and you love this game, then the $359.40 a year that you pay HTC should seem like a pretty good deal.
If others just like me ,pay 240$/year,I dont know why must I pay 360$.
I have no problems with trainers' free flying , or DUMA's rivets. In Fact I agree with that policy. They do wonderful things for the community and htey deserve their reward. (and I LOVE the rivets)
But I can't see why, for instance, Scaramouche (hola cyrano (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)) has received that offer and could've flown per 20$ only (S! tio, ahi has estao torero). What has done Scaramouche in AH that none of us has done for this community, for HTC?
to leave.To go from AH.
And because he left he is offered 20$/month forever?. And I am stuck with 30?.
Sorry if I am raged,but I find this unnaceptable. Maybe most people here are rich and don't mind 10$/month. I do mind. I don't have money to throw away, you know.
And I wont postin this thread anymore (unless directly named), because I dont want to go ballistic...HTC has my outmost respect as individuals and as a company, again. But this has been a BIG blunder, and I mean BIG. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Lephturn. Call it jelousy, call it whatever. Yes, I cant stand seeing how people who have done nothing special (apart than leaving from AH) have a 33% less money to pay than me.
When I have payed AH I have been late nearly 90% of the times, as I had to collect the money to pay it. I NEVER, repeat NEVER said that I found the price high. I NEVER, repeat NEVER asked for a price reduction.
Now I ask for it. I want to pay the same as everyone, I find unnaceptable this situation. If people here want to pay more, great. If I had more money I wont take this so serious. But I dont and I DO take this serious.
[edit]Please,can someone lend me .5$? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)[/edit]
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 10-25-2000).]
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Actually, if you read your TOS, Hitech can cancel your account with or without reason at any time.
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I learned a long time ago, that whether it be about religion, business or social environments, there will always be a group of people willing to strap explosives to their bodies to become martyrs for their beloved cause. It appears that AH is no exception. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) To those players willing to pay 30% or more on an on-going basis, than a virtual pilot flying next to you for EXACTLY the same service, only because he answered the same ten simple questions he would have for free if asked during his two week trial, I salute your tremendous passion and commitment to HTC.
Unfortunately, I'm not one of them as I've always believed in the credo that business is a fair exchange of values, unless I'm investing with full risk expectation to receive a higher return down the road. Interestingly enough, I said to HT a while ago that I'd be willing to even pay $60 U.S./month or more, but in the form of value added game options I would receive in return, such as vanity plates, access to special events and arenas, access to extended plane sets or use of a customized "soft and furry" badger type plane skins, just to name a few examples. I would bet there's a ton of things that could be used as an "up sell" for incremental revenue streams. A first year marketing student is taught the axiom that "it's much easier and less costly to retain and achieve incremental revenue from any existing customer base, than it is to go out and spend dollars to market and find new customers to sign-up". The moral, maximize what you have before you start throwing ideas and programs against some research wall to see what sticks.
I did read carefully Pyro's response and I acknowledge a need for test markets. Heck, P&G invented the concept, but this isn't about the idea which as I said in my first post, I think is a great concept. IMHO it's just about a very poor implementation, especially in the initial public communications. Obviously the purpose wasn't about gathering all kinds of sophisticated data, then number crunching it into a meaningful work product output. First, you're not going to get anything meaningful from the primitive survey requested and it doesn't even address the issue of an acceptable price point question anyway. Second, if indeed there was a huge amount of information to obtain and sift through, that implies that this special program isn't just about a FEW people being test marketed, but rather a very broad spectrum of new players who walked away after a two week trial. I'm not convinced that better options to obtain the same data points were carefully examined and explored effectively. Personally, I think it's simply about making a highly aggressive move to increase player head count at some "yet to be defined" price point water level. In the interim, there was a need to maintain the current revenue stream from the existing customer base and mask the whole thing under the guise of a market sampling program to make it somewhat defensible when it inevitably became public knowledge. You would have to be very naive not to believe it wouldn't be dumped out on the boards real quick and I think it's fortunate that our own AH board became the venue as opposed to some other environment, where any civility discussing this would have gone in the toilet fast. I have to compliment this group on how civil they've been to each other, PYRO for leaving the discussion public and not pulling it, as well as everyone's mostly intelligent commentary about the actual issue. That in itself is an unusual anomaly for this BBS. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Pyro, some free feedback from our eGroups poll we've been running for about a month now, which should tell you something about how useless it is trying to obtain a price point set from the world wide financial demographic of players who engage in this type of entertainment. Albeit, the sampling is small, I doubt the data points would shift dramatically even over 1,000 people.
POLL QUESTION: If you could set a flat MONTHLY rate for unlimited use of your favorite on- line flight simulation product, what pricing range would you choose?
CHOICES AND RESULTS so far.....
- Up to $10/month, 0 votes, 0.00%
- $11 to $15/month, 5 votes, 21.74%
- $16 to $20/month, 6 votes, 26.09%
- $21 to $25/month, 3 votes, 13.04%
- $26 to $30/month, 9 votes, 39.13%
- More than $30/month, 0 votes, 0.00%
A secondary question that you have to wonder about, is why didn't HTC use this great idea to go offshore, to promote and build incremental revenue though a broader customer base from the EU countries, Australia or Asia, where a reduction to $19.95/month would have been of huge assistance to players where the current $29.95/month is a financial stretch? It could have been a great preemptive marketing strike against the competition, setting an example they would be forced to follow, as well as the potential to build early adopter market loyalty. I, as well as I would bet a lot of others in North America, would have gladly supported subsidization of these guys and continued to pay $29.95/month U.S. ($45 Canadian) in order to it a win-win for both HTC and the rest of us.
I fully realize that HTC is only six people and what they have accomplished in a mere 15 months is nothing short of amazing. IMHO, what is constantly missed and not understood is that not everyone does everything well. I have learned that in life and business, everybody does do something particularly well and the secret is to get the right people in the right jobs. Being a great programmer with a huge legacy of experience in dealing with prop drag, doesn't necessarily transfer over into being able to incubate and create a successful business under the tremendous competitive pressures that exist today in on-line Internet gaming. It seems to me that if HTC is ever going to get off "Omaha" beach and move inland, that some experienced marketing and business advice would be prudent, perhaps from the new Internet advisor that HT has added to his new Board structure as a result of the recent private equity placement.
In any event, it is apparent to me that HTC is intent on going through with this program and therefore, my chapter has come to a close. To me it's ONLY a game and not my life's calling as it is with some on here. I have a fulfilling career and a family complete with grandkids. As much as I love the product, the HTC gang and many of you strange characters I hunker down and fly with regularly, when I get home tonight with access to the game software admin function I will quietly close my account and move on to other endeavors for the next while. I simply can't endorse a practice that isolates me as a revenue stream from others who pay less for exactly the same service, especially when a greater revenue opportunity is available from the existing customer base, including players like me. Quite frankly, I don't care if it's only one other player, it's still unacceptable. I'll simply wait until the standard price drops to $19.95 as it will sooner than later, then re-subscribe if I'm still interested in this kind of entertainment medium for relaxation, or use the excellent Head to Head implementation as a fix. Heck, you never know, some people got this same offer at $9.95/month !!!!!!!, so maybe I'll get in on an even lower price later. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
A huge salute to the many friends I've made on AH and I look forward to perhaps flying with many of you in the future, either here or in some other venue. A genuine thank you to Dale and Doug for providing me with some really fun on-line evenings of flight sim entertainment and also for their heartfelt commitment to the game development and its community.
Best Regards to all.....
Doug (Badger)
Looking for a different kind of environment to discuss your favorite on-line flight simulator?
http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline (http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline)
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I have just this to say.....
If this is the worst thing to happen to all of us in our lives, we will all be very blessed.
The complaint about two tier pricing is flawed at best....obviously the pricing structure is going to change...HTC knows what it takes to make their nut every month and what is necessary to grow their business.
The question to ask yourself is this...is playing AH worth thirty dollars a month to ME?
If I owned HTC, I would do whatever was necessary to grow my business and succeed.
My company owns shopping centers and we lease out available space at what rate/sq. ft. we feel our product is worth...period....not what a tenant feels they should be paying.
If you can enjoy your hobby great...if HTC's policies offend you then chose another product...I for one could care less about 10.00 a month...I care about the product and whether or not it fulfills my childish need to shoot folks down...think about this first before you go off and do something silly.
This is not about HTC being fair to all of us, however, it is very much about them building a successful company and to that end I am in full support of whatever they choose to do.
Out of Breath
Ice
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Originally posted by Gadfly:
Actually, if you read your TOS, Hitech can cancel your account with or without reason at any time.
You are completly right gadfly :
5. Suspension of Privileges - HiTech Creations reserves the right to suspend access to Aces High™ for the member immediately, without notice, upon rejection of any credit card charges, non-payment, dishonor or chargeback by Subscriber's bank of authorized charges or any other indication of credit problems, or for any reason whatsoever at HiTech Creations sole discretion without recourse from member.
effrayant non (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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bad things man ; bad things
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1) Will I stay paying @ $29.95 per month?
Bet your bippy, and loving every minute.
2) Would I like to pay $19.95
Yes (or $14.95 that a squadm8 was offered)
3) My Wifes comment on this...
SUCKER
and as my business manager (ie. keeper of the cash) it is going to cost me alot more in the long run, with honeydos and dinners out explaining just why i think its worth it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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You're right, Badger. It's all a matter of how important AH is to each of us. Personally, I think you're being a bit of a tightwad to cancel your account now, only to open it back up when it's cheaper. But that's your decision. Do you by chance do day trading in the stock market? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
AH is not the meaning of life to me, but it is the one small bit of enjoyment I get for myself, when I get a break from work and from my role as a new father. And you don't have to feel sorry for those of us without business experience. Most of us are not chumps or suckers. Think of us as investors in our favortie hobby.
Anyway, I'm going to miss flying with and against you. I hope you come back soon. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by banana (edited 10-25-2000).]
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Towd, you're like Eyor I swear.
Badger <S> hope to see you soon. The few times we bumped into each other online as adversary or friend it was nice (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Westy
p.s. What banana said too. To a "T." This is my hobby, a serious hobby. Not as hardcore as the infmous Monday night footbal fan might be but pretty close to it. I don't spend my life here, I just have alot of passion for this WWII Aircombat stuff (Aces High) as well as for interacting with the community around here. Here is where I plonk down my virtual beer stien and chomp on beer nuts with like minded indivduals.
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 10-25-2000).]
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Anything that HTC does is paid by the money that comes from the customers. Nevertheless, once you sign your bill, it's their money.
If they extended a $10 discount offer to 100 people and 50 accepted, they "lost" $500/months or $6,000/year or $20,000 total considering average account life. So some people are upset about it.
What if HTC decides to hire a marketing company to do a study for $20,000 to achieve the same results?
What if they give themselves a salary raise of $20,000?
What if they donate $20,000 to charity or political cause?
What if they buy a backup server for $20,000?
What if they redecorate their office for $20,000?
What if they spend $20,000 to arrange an AH convention that is no use to most of us and seem to distract them from implementing new features?
None of those expences would cause a squeek.
What they spend their money on is their own business and their investors. They know how to run the company and they staked their fortunes on it. They decide what expences are most cost-effective. As a customer, you can control whether you give them the money, but not what they can or cannot do with it.
miko
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No it isn't my life- far from it.
But I cannot agree with the attitude that anyone has been slighted.
Stay, leave, do whatever. My feeling is that most who would leave over this non-issue were on the way out the door anyway. And if you think I am some HTC fanatic, well, maybe to some extent I am, now. Before I was an iEN fanatic, and still in some ways support that product.
You see, I think it is just possible that a business has to do things once in a while to survive. To some of the customer base it will be the wrong decision, or in this case the wrong method of applying the concept. Whuttevah. To make this a personal issue is a step beyond reality.
"Hey, HT, let's really piss these guys off!"
"How, Pyro?"
"Let's test the waters for a lower rate!"
"How's that gonna make them mad?"
"We'll offer it to a few people first."
"Who?"
"The people who have tried and left AH."
"Why them?"
"Because we want to see if a lower price will bring them back for good, and in greater numbers."
"How will that make everyone mad? Seems to me if that plan works we could lower the price for everyone?"
"Ah, but here's the beauty of the plan; offering this plan to the people who are hooked serves no purpose whatsoever. We have to target the undecideds. It is the only way to broaden the base enough to lower the price for all."
"That still sounds reasonable to me..."
"Ah! but our sensitive pilots will make a loyalty issue out of it..."
"I see..."
"...and will start talking about how unfair it is..."
"Yes! YES!"
"...and will quit!"
"Beautiful! I love it! We'll be out in the streets in no time!"
What anyone thinks HTC has to gain from alienating even one customer is beyond me. How these people who have been in this business for several years should be testimony enough that they have a handle on it.
I don't own a business, I teach. It is public relations every single minute of every hour of every day. Reality- anything you do is a calculated risk when you deal with people. You are always going to make someone mad when you change things, especially when you don't apply the change across the board. Sometimes sweeping change is possible, sometimes it is not, and sometimes it is possible only after testing the waters a bit.
No plots. No grand scheme to alienate customers. A simple experiment.
Continue your hand wringing. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Badger
Skip McDonald's once a month and stay with AH
Heck, it's only money (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Eagler
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Either way it goes is better than the $250.00 a month I was spending in Fighter Ops on AOL. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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NHFoxtro
-XO-NightHawks
(http://heathblair.tripod.com/nhcouger.gif)
NightHawks "WE BAD"
[This message has been edited by NHFoxtro (edited 10-25-2000).]
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No SH@!*t! How quickly we forget that $29.95/month is a pittance compared to our $150+ Warbirds bills of just a year ago!
Ah, life is funny.
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Actually, I was refering to this clause, which has nothing to do with your credit card:
6. Either you or HiTech Creations may terminate your HiTech Creations membership at any time, with or without cause.
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Anyone that flys in any airliner just look around do you think you paid the same amount for the same flight as the others I doubt it. Airlines charge different rates for different reasons. Until WB went one rate some were payine 1.99 others 1.50 depending on the package they buy. Marketing is just that, we all benifit form it in the end. Those that dont pay 29,95 probably wont pay 19.95 either.
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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
Indians Home page were links to help pages can be found.
Indian's Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/~tltoon)
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Originally posted by -ammo-:
WOW! seems priorities arent straight, if money is that tight then I wouldnt be playing AH!
Right now I am unable to work for medical reasons. (Long story would rather not go there)
My wife works and makes almost enough to pay the bills. We owe 35,000$ on her school loan.
I have zero income comeing in for me to play yet I have always managed to find the 30$ a month. So a few, a "Select" few who were NOT flying got the option to join at a lower price. How does that hurt me???
I know from the reading i've done that HTC needs about 3 to 4 times the player base it now has to get in the black & stay there.
So they are exploreing ways of accomplishing that. THATS GOOD NEWS!
IF it works the price will eventually drop for all of us. If it doesn't it won't.
Should it have been a limited time offer? Perhaps, but that was HiTech's decision to make.
I've seen it posted above & I'll say it again. Want the price YOU pay to go down, get 6 friends to join Aces High!
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Maj Ghosth
XO 332nd Flying Mongrels
AH Trainer Corp
(http://events.hitechcreations.com/scenarios/afrika/graphics/corps.gif)
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Jeepers people: two tier structure my bellybutton - limited number of people have got offered (not necessarily taken!) a discounted pricing plan and peopel are leaving because of that?? Get a life or something!
As much as I love this game, $50 would be tough for me (unless I quit smoking).
That's what I did 4 years ago when it came to finding funds to finance WB account - for the amount paid I got more fun out of WB and so smoking went.
Please spare a thought for the guys that dont live in the U.S.A......
Im from Australia, and our dollar conversion is 53.54 cents to every Yankee dollar. So if its $29.95 its $60 odd dollars later for me.
Molders, let me get one thing straight - it's not US dollars you're talking about, right? I mean the "$60 odd" ones? Cuz RAM in this case is sooo much worse off with his pesetas or, rather, thousands of them.
Whatever it's costing us in our local currencies is irrelevant, it's US$29.95/month whether we like it or not. (It's more than my mom's pension btw - over in Russia the exchange rate/inflation and stuff like that put the whole thing out of reach for many potential customers).
As for free accounts - god bless them! If people creating those fantastic terrains get a free account - I'm all for it. It keeps the 6 guys at HTC focused on more planes, trains and automobiles and it can't be a bad thing.
As much as I love the product, the HTC gang and many of you strange characters I hunker down and fly with regularly, when I get home tonight with access to the game software admin function I will quietly close my account and move on to other endeavors for the next while. I simply can't endorse a practice that isolates me as a revenue stream from others who pay less for exactly the same service, especially when a greater revenue opportunity is available from the existing customer base, including players like me. Quite frankly, I don't care if it's only one other player, it's still unacceptable.
Bummer bagder - you don't go on holidays (last minute bookings discount), fly any airlines (God forbid free upgrades!!!), take a train (tarvel after 9am at cheaper rates) or condone any of those obviously frivolous "10% off everything to pensioners every Thursday" things at your local supermarket, do you now? Or is it just HTC you have a gripe about?
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lynx
13 Sqn RAF
[This message has been edited by -lynx- (edited 10-25-2000).]
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Still consider myself a potential customer, so I guess I'm allowed to comment here...
If you offered me a SIX-MONTH trial at $19.95, after which I could continue at the regular price, I would've jumped on it.
Unlimited months at $19.95? Sure! Heck, once word of this gets out, you'll probably have a lot of guys trying to get the $19.95 rate that doesn't "officially" exist.
But if I was already a customer, I wouldn't regard this as an honest business practice. If you came in here BEFORE you did it, and said, "We're going to offer a LIMITED number of trial memberships at $19.95 to see if that brings enough folks in to lower it across the board," I'd bet you would've seen almost unanimous support. Instead, you've created bad blood unnecessarily within your own EXISTING customer base.
This is one of those times you admit you've made a mistake, fix what you can, and move on. What's going to happen when the 75% of players who DON'T read this board find out they're paying 50% more than guys who do a free trial and then walk? How many customers are going to quit, do a free trial, and then not sign up, in the hopes they'll get the new rate?
If you had done this "above board," as a limited-time trial, it would make sense. Heck, by the time the four-month or six-month trial period ended, you might have decided to lower the price for everyone, and you'd be heros (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) As is, as more and more guys get this new rate, you'll have more and more grumbling from the "old" customers. What kind of numbers are involved here? I can't imagine you'd get a "representative sample" from 50 or 100 guys.
I think you guys put this idea into action before it was finished "cooking."
I wouldn't mind getting that $19.95 rate tho... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
P.S. there is also some discussion that $19.95 is not the ONLY "trial rate" being offered here, and that some folks may be being offered even LOWER rates. If that's the case, I think you'd better either squash the rumor now or come clean.
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[This message has been edited by jedi (edited 10-25-2000).]
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I feel your pain Pyro... I have the same dilema every day in what I do. I constantly have to decide whether the market will support higher prices to maximize my revenue or whether it's better to get more users at a lower price. An interesting tactic you took to find out but I can appreciate that it will probably give you the best "actual" feel for where the numbers work the best.
Here's crossing my fingers that in 2 weeks everyone playing AH is up for a $10/month price reduction because that's where the numbers point.
Soda
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Originally posted by Renfield:
Yep. I signed up at $29.95 and helped support the development of the sim - along with the rest of your current customers. To learn that you guys are giving people who didn't support your company a 33% discount is, well, a slap in the face.
.
Some beta testers are even beeing paid to play games, do you consider it as a slap also? Marketing is good, because sometime it leads to drop of prices for end users, like you and me, and longer life cycle for a product.
Fariz
[This message has been edited by Fariz (edited 10-25-2000).]
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Maverick is a smart guy...what can I add to that? Just to say that I think he's right.
Whatever HTC was "exploring" they've already
made a staggered rate by making this offer with no expiration. The only way to not have staggered rates is to give everyone the $19.95 rate. This is too simple to argue. I want this rate. Can HTC give me a good reason not to give me this rate when they offer it to someone else? I don't think so.
Bad move HTC, but you don't need me to tell you the obvious. I'll be waiting for my notice of the new lowered price. Or even better, how about $14.95 then you can make the guys paying $19.95 feel cheated also.
(before you reply to this, I know that HTC didn't do this to make us feel cheated, but com'on, this sucks (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) )
Nemo (just "nobody")
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Well I am one of the "test" subjects who got the $19.95 e-mail.
I tried the "free trial" offer about a month ago (never have had a AH account before) and really was only able to fly about four hours or so (to much going on in the real world at that time) I have been a WB customer for about two years and have a squad over there.
I must say I was suprized by the "unlimited" time offer for the $19.95...in todays market that's damn good for a Full Realism Sim.
I'm still looking at it not sure what I'm going to do.....just wanted to let those of you who think it's a Troll or an offer for old account holders know...it's not (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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CMDR Dogger
C.O.VF-24 THE RENEGADES
1st Combined Air Group
[This message has been edited by Dogger (edited 10-25-2000).]
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Who said life is fair?
To me it is the cheapest form of entertainment available that I have.
If you don't like the price don't play.
They have GIVEN you the ability to play H2H for free.
Your Business thought for the Day,
"Rome was not built by people who had meetings all the time, Rome was built by people who destroyed their foes"
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Milo
3./JG2
"Horrido"
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Well if nothing, else this topic sure has drawn a crowd.
For myself, I am not going to get my undies wrapped up around my ankles and take a nose dive into a muck pool. We are talking about $10 here, not some one forcing me to donate one of a kidneys to a violent criminal against my wishes.
However; what I perceive that is really bugging many players is a "Perceived Slight". Some how knowing that some one else pays less than they do, insults them.
So be it. Most of them whine about a lot of other things anyway. Why do they whine? It is because they love the game. You don't complain about something if you don't care about it.
For myself, $20 per month sounds better than $30 per month. There is always the competition. This is not a monopoly.
Good Luck HTC, I root for $19.95! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"Hind tit suckin whiners. Begone with yah!"
Hangtime
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I'm for HTC doing whatever is necessary to survive as a going concern until I finish MBA school in 2002 and can make a decision on what sim to play based on actually having a little free time.
I thought $29.95 was not unreasonable, considering that cable to keep my wife sane is about $42 these days, but I also knew that I wasn't going to be able to get enough stick time with school and a baby to justify the outlay. So I kept my iEN Silver account because I can fly DoA (real men fly SPADS muhuhahahahaha!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)) as much or as little as I want and it's no big deal.
When I finish school, it'll be a different story. If DOA is still where it is 2 years from now, switching will start to look like a good idea. My current lack of a paid account should noit be construed as a vote against AH/HTC, it's just my circumstances at the moment. Of course, if I could get AH at $19.95 then, I'd grab it, keep my DOA account and be a happy boy. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Flathat
'Black Dahlia'
No10 RNAS "The Black Flight"
Angel on your wing, devil on your tail
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A secondary question that you have to wonder about, is why didn't HTC use this great idea to go offshore, to promote and build incremental revenue though a broader customer base from the EU countries, Australia or Asia, where a reduction to $19.95/month would have been of huge assistance to players where the current $29.95/month is a financial stretch?
What makes you think that they didn't?
Sorry to stir the pot but I received an offer at $14.95 per month. After thinking about it for a day I will be taking up that offer. HTC needent worry, they will be making plenty of money out of me. I can only fly for a limited time per month (less than 10 hours) because of committments to other things, namely Warbirds training. I simply couldn't justify the expenditure at $29.95 for simply not flying that much. I'll sign up simply to keep an eye on AH development while not having to pay through the nose for the priviledge. Cya soon hopefully.
Regards
Daren
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Beaz aka ==bz==
249 Squadron RAF "Gold Coast"
Command HQ
Warbirds Training Staff
Co-Founder TechPubs (http://www.techpubs.wwiionline.com)
[This message has been edited by Beaz (edited 10-25-2000).]
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Can we have the $19-95 pilots fly under a different icon? Then we know which to kill! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Seriously, $29-95 is a lot of money for me but I am just addicted so I'll continue to pay for it as long as it remains a flat rate. I believe with the introduction of the Navy and other future projects AH should attract even more pilots which in theory should either make a large packet for HTC, hopefully enough to lower the price and keep/attract future newbies.
Regards
'Nexx'
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Hmm, very interesting (as he signs the check for the next 3 mos.). Those of you who feel that this will lead to a permanent two tier pricing system have rocks in your heads.
Shamus
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Beaz: I like the trainer set up here, first, your tour is 3 months long, but you get comped account for 6 months. This allows one more free time to enjoy the game after their tour, prevents 'Trainer Burnout', and you continue to stay a trainer in status if you choose to do so, though you're not committed to having to train someone, except on your own free time (after your 'tour').
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Just was thinking what Indian was thinking -
I am flying to San Diego this afternoon on business (from NY). The airfare is $1589.64 for coach!!!! Granted I'm not paying but some folks do and they know that others are paying $300 instead.
HTC - keep up the market research, I am sure that the price won't be any higher and, I'm guessing will be at least $5 less. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Oh - and no perk planes, please.
Sour
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Sour, does this mean we may be able to name our own price of online sims on "Priceline.com"?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Okay here it goes. My best job at describing business(which many obviously do not understand...), and how money works.
Today, we have Aces High with the majority paying 29.95$. We also have those few that are paying the 19.95$, or some such amount.
Tommorrow, after much misdirected whining, everyone is paying 19.95$.
The next day, due to lack of funds, HTC is out of business.
The next day, I NEED MY F'IN ACES HIGH FIX.. DAMN IT YOU BASTID HTC, GO BACK INTO BUSINESS I'M ALL TWEAKED OUT.
Reply: Well you wanted it for cheaper today, so we gave it to you cheaper. Unfortunately the few we brought in paying the lower amount that you TWITS complained about didn't balance out. Business faultered and now I'm eating out of a garbage can, thank you very-f'in-much.
Of course HT would be more polite than I would.. but what the heck. :-)
-SW
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Badger,
This is a classless thread started by you in an obvious attempt to promote your buisness savy ways.
You know what it would inovoke... and you are stirring the pot even more.
Once again, its pretty easy to sit back and talk like you run the buisness. In truth, you are just a customer saying whatever you can to get cheaper prices.
Hide behind buisness logic all you want. I still haven't seen you start up an on-line flight sim and make money at it yet.
Booo to you.
AKDejaVu
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Booo to you....ROFL, I say that at least ten times a day. I thought it was just me... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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HTC needed to find out how many people would go for the game if it were only $20 a month. The chose people that tried the game for 2 weeks but didn't opt to buy into it. Maybe people that played extensively for two weeks but didn't opt to buy into it.
They can't say "$20 for 6 months" because that's not really a serious pricing plan. The people need to buy into a fixed rate or the sample is skewed by "they are just trying to hook us".
Who is paying $30 that wouldn't rather be paying $20? Unfortunately, you've already showed your willingness to play the game at $30 and thus you wouldn't be much help in determining how many MORE people would play if it were only $20.
So.. complain away about HTC offering the lower rate. Quit the game. I'm sure the intention was not to say "hmmm.. more people are joining at $20... maybe that is a better rate"... then lowering the rate for everyone.
Badger, you made a statement about "Players paying less PERMANENTLY". It was incorrect on a few accounts. 1) you are assuming that HTC wasn't going to lower the rate for everyone after the survey was complete. 2) You are forgetting that a cancelled account cancels the offer.
Permanent was never stated for anything. You just chose to throw that in there.
Now stop you fricking whining and get back to the game. I can't believe people are whining about HTC considering lower prices. If they hadn't done this at all you'd all be paying $30 and not caring.
Once again... the community is more concerned about what everyone else is doing. Its beginning to make me sick.
AKDejaVu
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LOLOL
To funny, how not to 101.....
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I am of the "wait and see" school.
$29.95 is the least expensive part of my computer costs. I have DSL $40.00/mo and I won't tell ya what I have spent to upgrade my puter!!
I like how this sim has progressed and I have been here since beta and look forward to watching just how the best sim online continues to improve.
Just where is a better sim? I say not AW, not DoA, not WB, not WWIIonline........
I will wait and see what develops.
Am still a happy customer (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by 1776 (edited 10-25-2000).]
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Wow look at all these responses in such a short period of time!
I must make my feelings known on this, it really sounds important!
First of all, where's my survey (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Secondly, I will continue to pay 29.95/month until HTC deems it is time to raise or lower the price.
Fury
<overheard at HTC headquaurters:
ht: "Pyro, I want you to come up with some hairbrained scheme that will get us new customers, but make sure you intentionally screw our old faithful customers. I want them pissed so they all leave and we can start all over again with a new customer base."
Pyro: "Sure, no problem".
gimme a break and let HTC run their business. Use you money and your head, not your knee-jerk gut reaction.
<<edit: damnit, Kieren beat me to it. I really should have read all 134 posts before I posted this>>
p.s. Anyone read a good whine abouit the Language Filter lately? Hmmm, guess not.
[This message has been edited by Fury (edited 10-25-2000).]
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Someone enlighten me plz. There are also 9,95$ offers, here in Europe. What a mess. Frankly, I dont care. But a lot of my squad mates are really pissed off. Why HTC did not do any official announce about these new offers?
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Originally posted by gatt:
Why HTC did not do any official announce about these new offers?
Oh I wouldn't know this one.. it's too f'in hard... maybe cuz THIS THREAD WOULD OF HAPPENED?
Thanks to Badger, this thread did happen. No one seems to understand that for this month they could be paying their usualy 29.95, and NEXT month they could be paying 19.95 cuz of this supposed "screw the current customer base" bulldookie that people are scheming up in their heads.
Think FUTURE people. Progress always goes forward, doesn't stay in it's current state.
And use your g'damn heads.. Evolution gave us brains for which to use.. put them to use!
-SW
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DejaVu....
Since you've chosen to bring your standard class act rhetoric to what you've coined a classless thread, I would have appreciated your taking the time to read the posts before commenting. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Although I never made the statement you attributed to me "Players paying less PERMANENTLY", adjusting for your grammar it is essentially correct.
Quoted email:
"We've made arrangements for you to join the ranks of massively multiplayer flying for only $19.95 per month, unlimited months, unlimited flying until you delete this account."
I'm just a country boy dejavu and you're obviously a lot smarter, but this says to me a full time/full benefits membership at a reduced rate of $19.95/month for this particular individual, but it should be noted that emails sent to others set rates of $9.95, $14.95 etc, for as long as any of these people maintained their accounts. Of course if they quit two years from now and wanted to re-subscribe, they'll pay whatever the flat rate market price is at that point, most likely it will be under $10/month. So, what don't you understand or were you just playing with semantics again?
Looking for cheaper prices? ...hehehe. I guess you never got to the part where I was willing to pay $60 U.S./month or more, but it's purely academic as are comments like this which deflect from the real issue and are only designed to create dissention in and of themselves.
Assuming that HTC wasn't going to lower the rate for everyone after the survey was complete? Well, again, read the first post. The question was posed and Pyro answered.
Start up a flight sim? Interesting concept, but unfortunately since nobody has and is breaking even today doing this, then I'm not sure it's a great idea. I guess that's when you have to start wondering why. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I have no quibble with the idea as it was great, but the execution was badly flawed. Jedi summed it up very nicely. "If you came in here BEFORE you did it, and said, "We're going to offer a LIMITED number of trial memberships at $19.95 to see if that brings enough folks in to lower it across the board," I'd bet you would've seen almost unanimous support."
As far as my business acumen goes, yes, I dabble somewhat and have had some small success. Apparently not as much as many on here though, but I'm still learning. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Badger
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Originally posted by Badger:
A first year marketing student is taught the axiom that "it's much easier and less costly to retain and achieve incremental revenue from any existing customer base, than it is to go out and spend dollars to market and find new customers to sign-up". The moral, maximize what you have before you start throwing ideas and programs against some research wall to see what sticks.
Actually, pretty much nothing a first year marketing student is taught has any basis in reality. The common old slogan should probably be reworded now into Those who can't, sit around and analyze.
A poll in which people are not committed to their answer is inherently flawed, no matter how stringintly selected and honest their answers it remains what they would theoritically pay (ot to mention by definition it's a target audience of people already interested in online flight sims so much that they are in a discussion group about flight sims). I'd rather not get started on the faults of theoretical business models, this thread is long enough already.
Is McDonalds wrong to give away free fries to some people? Hell, I eat it all the time, why do those other guys win free fries and I dont? Should I stop eating McDonalds? No. As long as it is worth the price for a quick easy snack I will drive through and eat.
Once over the outrage at someone getting a lucky break, the question facing you is still the same. Is this product worth paying $29.95 a month for? If jealous outrage makes it no longer worth that, well, then, I guess some fall into that catagory.
Is this subsidizing other to play cheaper, or kissing HTC's ass? No, it's simply paying what I am charged because I feel it is still worth the money. Sure I'd like to play for $10/month. On the other hand should rates increase I'd probably stick with it higher than $30, I'd have to reevaluate that if/when it ever happened.
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Fatty
Fat Drunk Bastards (http://fdb.50megs.com)
"Newer studies show that over 97% of whines come from whiners."
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Fatty? The same Fatty I met at the con? WOW! Did you pull the IV out? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
<S>
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Originally posted by Fatty:
Actually, pretty much nothing a first year marketing student is taught has any basis in reality. The common old slogan should probably be reworded now into Those who can't, sit around and analyze.
Preach on Brother Fatty. As a guy who works for a living (sorry not in a marketing department) I say Amen!
BTW, (and I'm gonna get flamed for this) How do you get 10 Marketers in a phone booth..........Promote 1 and watch the rest crawl up his/her arse!
My guess...200 posts easy!
I can't use all those fancy words like our marketing experts, so here's a simple thought. While AH, WB, WWIIOnline say there are not competing with each other..that could be true, but they are competing for our dollars and that is not a infinte pool. So my guess is one or more of these different companies strategies is going to be to find the right price where this finite pool of simmers can afford to participate in 2 sims at once. That way they can still tap into the larger market segment and reach critical mass.
Now, I want my lower rate. While I can justify paying $30.00, I'm not stupid...I'll always pay less if I can.
Cobra
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Badger,
You write very well.. and say very little.
People want to pay less for this game. Some people now have that oportunity. That could mean good things for all. It will not mean raised prices for anyone. So.. worse case scenario is that you pay exactly what you are paying right now. Only petty jealousy comes into the picture.
As far as implimentation goes.. well you just love hindsight don't you. Its real easy to say none of this would have happened if HTC would have just anounced it beforehand... I mean how can you be proven wrong on it?
Regardless.. people we all fly beside would have been paying less. No matter what the implimentation. Those that want to be tulips will continue to do so... regardless of implimentation.
And.. if you expect me to believe that you only posted this because you felt HTC could have "implimented it better" then I feel sorry for you. You obviously think the world mistakes good writing for inteligence.
AKDejaVu
[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 10-25-2000).]
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This is the right way to argue. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Argue (http://99thastag.hypermart.net/files/argument.rm)
[This message has been edited by Baddawg (edited 10-25-2000).]
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What I cannot stand is to be shot down by a 9,95$/month cannon-hog while I'm flying a 29,95$ C.205. Definitely.
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Unfortunately this thread will never be locked because then the accusations of "well they obviously don't give a sh*t" or "they are just rip off artists" will abound the msg board by the paranoid and/or amazingly and without a doubt STOOPID people.
Too bad, I see the human race getting dumber by the post in this thread.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
You write very well.. and say very little.
AKDejaVu
It's hard to say much when you keep changing the subject and keep avoiding the real issue. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Again, if you'd taken the time to read before wading in, you would have noticed my comment about getting this subject up front here on home turf before it became a spectacle on other boards, or are you naive enough to believe this would have been a corporate trade secret? I doubt very much that HTC ever intended it to be that way.
Don't feel sorry for me dejavu, I'm doing quite well, thank you. I'm out until the dust settles, so you'll be able to get back to dominating everyone else's topics. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
You obviously think the world mistakes good writing for inteligence.
Ouch.... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Speaking of class?
Vadr has a great expression that reminds me of academic characters like yourself. "You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think".
Damn, I hate insulting people, but sometimes it's appropriate, especially on behalf of a normal silent majority who have always wanted to say that, but have been too intimidated to do so. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
(Badger quietly closes the door and disappears into the night)
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LOL GATT!!!!!!!
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
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<RAM slips again into the thread for a moment>
Originally posted by gatt:
What I cannot stand is to be shot down by a 9,95$/month cannon-hog while I'm flying a 29,95$ C.205. Definitely.
I could have said it in many different ways. Never better than you, Gatt.
Just change that C.205 for a Fw190A5.
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GATT, 100% with ya!!!
besides plane (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif).
Nice discussion bout marketing issues folks, but i still feel like a customer 2nd class (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif),
Maik
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How long do you think iTEN would wait to jack thier prices up if HTC closes thier doors. We better support these guys in every way possible. The reverse may also be true, yay Warbirds.
sax
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*steps into cockpit, points handgun at crew* "Ok, listen up, this is a hijack. Turn this thread to 270, your new destination is the Archived messages."
(http://smilecwm.tripod.com/big/Duhard.gif)
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
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I vote Yes on Fatty (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Damn, thats twice this week, punk. You need to drink some more beer, you're starting to post coherently.
I learned a long time ago, that whether it be about religion, business or social environments, there will always be a group of people willing to strap explosives to their bodies to become martyrs for their beloved cause. It appears that AH is no exception.
All right, Badger, I won't let that jab at anyone supporting HTC slip (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Yes, there are those types of people in the world. There are also those that have to try to criticize, downgrade, tear apart or destroy anything of significance that they are not responsible for. They do this so that they can feed their ego, or perhaps to elevate themselves in comparison to those of true ability as their own limitations keep them from attaining such heights.
Very little of what you have posted on these boards has ever been constructive. Every time I read one of your bi-monthly HTC business diatribes I am reminded of Ellsworth Toohey in Ayn Rand's "The Fountainhead." Your posts make you seem obsessed with finding flaws with this company. Why?
If this is only a game to you, and you are truly happy with your life, career, grandkids, and so forth, then by all means close your account AND quit posting. If you still feel like you have to post and make your voice heard on these boards, then I guess you can stick around and keep on demonstrating to the world that you have some need to continually attempt to undermine HTC.
Gordo
Fat DRUNK Bastards!
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Jedi summed it very nicely I thought. Far better than my own poor attempts to make my thoughts clear.
Some have posted that a poll where the person giving the opinion has no stake in the question automatically flaws the poll. That is simply not true. If you are interested in what that person thinks on their own without influence you cannot offer them an incentive related to the question. If you do you are buying the opinion from the person who will answer based on what they think you want to here.
Jedi's temporary offer idea was fundamentally sound. If the player stays until the $19.95 offer was revoked and leaves, you have just discovered your price point. The data that you derive from that experiment has conclusively told you that the price level was comfortable for that level of player.
If the number of players goes up during that temporary period then later goes down when those players leave after the price was raised you have confirmed your price point.
This is the methodology I do not think ANYONE would have a problem with. Current players would understand that the offer was temporary and would welcome the chance to get the easy kills knowing that those that stay would be paying the same for the same service.
As I stated before, if the price goes down I would be very happy. I have no problem with HTC looking to get more numbers and a lower price. My problem is with the methodology used to look for the price point.
Am I going to quit? Not yet. Am I happy? Absolutely not. Nor do I think I should have to apologize for my displeasure about this situation. In effect I have just been told that my worth to the service is less than that of a player who did not elect to play for pay at the contracted price. This is based on the fact that others who did not pay to play were given a permanent price reduction instead of a temporary incentive price. If my price comes down to that level great. But I do not see any reason why I should be happy about paying one third or one half more than another player for the same product.
It has been posted that people should pay for different levels of play. Now really, think about that. How long do you think a beginner would play if they were limited to a F4F, Brewster Buffalo, Kate, Val or Fairey Swordfish when most others (or quite a few) were able to have 190 D's 51's, Nik1's, chogs and other late war planes? Not too long is my guess. No one wants to play at a marked disadvantage unless they do so for the challenge. Someone like Nath and Citabria would be a dangerous foe even in those planes.
Like Ram (funny how this has brought some together) I will stop posting about this. I simply lack the eloquence to properly express what I want to say here. What I have said will have to suffice as I cannot think of any better way to express it. If some here do not like what I have said or my position, that is not my problem. I am far more concerned with the "man in the mirror's" opinion.
Flame away.
Mav
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You just... don't... get it, do you, Scott? You don't!
Dr. Evil, Austin Powers
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OK badger.. this is what I think.
I think you like to critique other companies buisness strategy. I think you write well. I think you like to use that writing skill to sound as if you REALLy know how it should be done.
In truth, I think you are full of hot air.
You sound like a college professor to me. One that was a student until he got his PhD.. then became a professor.
I read your posts. I read into them. I simply wonder what you are getting at. You attempted to "get this subject up front here on home turf before it became a spectacle on other boards"? LOL! I guess you made it a spectacle on this board instead. That only helps to make it more of a spectacle on other boards.
AKDejaVu
[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 10-25-2000).]
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Originally posted by Lance:
I vote Yes on Fatty (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Damn, thats twice this week, punk. You need to drink some more beer, you're starting to post coherently.
Every time I read one of your bi-monthly HTC business diatribes I am reminded of Ellsworth Toohey in Ayn Rand's "The Fountainhead." Gordo
Fat DRUNK Bastards!
What's this world coming too?? The FDB's are posting coherently and are men of letters as well??
Next will be dog's living with cats, or worse, WB's living with AH's..yikes..oh the humanity.
Cobra
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ah, em....
<SOB taps on the podium, and directs the rest of the FDBs in a stunning rendition of "Highway to the Dangerzone" with a moving armpit fart sound chorus>
We're just trying to...give something back to the community (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
SOB
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OK badger.. this is what I think.
I think you like to critique other companies buisness strategy. I think you write well. I think you like to use that writing skill to sound as if you REALLy know how it should be done.......
You sound like a college professor to me. One that was a student until he got his PhD.. then became a professor.
Hmmm, being a college professor, I'm not quite sure how to take this one. On the one hand, I'm insulted. On the other, I think what Badger says here makes one helluvalotta sense.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
edog
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You sound like a college professor to me. One that was a student until he got his PhD.. then became a professor.
hehe. Not exactly. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I was gonna stay out of this but, just so's you'll know: The old badger is at least as well qualified to speak to what is and isn't a good business move as anyone here, and eminently more qualified than the vast majority of you. He doesn't blow his horn much so I won't either, but you should take my word on it.
Now, the point here is: This is sort of a funny way to go about searching for a new pricepoint. Seems to me that most of you don't mind, which indicates that HTC must know their customer base pretty well, but it's still darned peculiar to someone with a formal business education. There was/is the risk of quite a backlash.
Pyro's response is good, I'm sure everyone will eventually get whatever the new pricepoint is, and life will go on.
Now, you guys can go back to discussing this to your heart's content, but I'd lay off of the old Dachs. It's better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool, than open it and remove all doubt.
In closing, badger is a fan of HTC and always has been. He's just smart enough to know that being a supporter does not necessitate walking around with blinders on...
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Vadr
Kommandeur, III/JG 2 'Richthofen' (http://www.jg2.org/)
CM, S3 Team (http://personal.smartt.com/~barbell/S3main.html)/Parser (http://www.cgidesign.net/s3/)
vadr@jg2.org
Combat Flightsim Business Forum (http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline)
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A college professor I am not.
A first grade teacher I am.
And I can attest that if I were to pass out cookies of different sizes to my students, those who got the smaller cookies would not complain.
eskimo
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This thread got lot of replies, even more than "tell me who are you". So we love money more than our egos? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Fariz
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I hate to single you out Badger... but ya *did* post this thread...and your misgivings about this latest development are such that you'd walk away from what most of us would deem as, well, a hobby... therefore, you're fair game (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I guess I'm trying to get at the nut of what's so upsetting about this... I culled your posts to try to find that one reason... summed up as it were. Here's what I extracted as your reason for quitting:
I simply can't endorse a practice that isolates me as a revenue stream from others who pay less for exactly the same service, especially when a greater revenue opportunity is available from the existing customer base, including players like me. - Badger
Allow me to paraphrase (loosely). You're not comfortable with people paying less than you, especially when your prepared to pay more.
Do I have that right? It makes no sense to me.... But that's not your fault. You have the full right to your opinions/feelings, and you certainly don't have to explain them to anybody. Yet you do. So after I look beyond all the posts, and the lengthy rationale, I can't see this as being anything more than envy. I could easily be wrong.... just how it reads.
To those players willing to pay 30% or more on an on-going basis, than a virtual pilot flying next to you for EXACTLY the same service,...
You've got it wrong, I think. We are not paying more, they're paying less.
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Pyro's idea sounds good to me . Why ? It sure will get numbers he wants . How do I know ? Well one of my buds sent me 60 bucks to come back and fly with them . Now I tried it but you know what ? They would have to PAY me to fly were I wasn't happy or having that much fun . I sent the money back .
But when I was having fun 50 bucks wouldn't have been too much ! Get IT ? It ain't the money , just like Hangtime and some others said . I don't and didn't fly cause of money reasons , I flew were I was learning and having the most FUN . When it stops , the money STOPS .
Hope you get your answers AH gl to ya's ,
SR
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Jaaaaasus keeeeeristcle onna roller skate!
FDB's coherent... that wus worth 29.95 before the chorus!
It's a shame Badger quit.. I was lookin forward to a rodent hunt... also worth 29.95. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Pyro: "Badger?? BADGERS?? We don't need no steeeenking BADGERS!"
Hang
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Well, I guess I should take a whack at this. As someone who runs a service business and also one who wants to see my client succeed, I add the following;
It seems that some people are personalizing this. No finger pointing, but some of the posts to appear to come from a personal point of view, and/or heavily quilted with business savvy.
Let me give you a real story, which does relate well to this situation. Last year I was faced with having to offer DSL service or face certain extinction. With little knowledge of how it may effect my overall business, I opted to offer it at a higher price than most of my competitors.
1) The higher price would allow a slower growth and give me time to make sure I had all things lined up correctly.
2) It would ensure I would not oversell the service, which is important to me.
After 4 to 5 months, I discovered the DSL clients really were not taxing the overall service.
At that point in time, I could then afford to lower the price, but only if I knew it would garner more business. It was a fine line to be walking.
As calls for DSL service came in, we were telling the new prospects a price which was well under what my current client base was paying.
This went on for another 3 months. After that I determined we could lower the price across the board and still be profitable.
We did so. No announcements, we just changed all of our current clients price to the new lower price.
They were very happy.
Now, those old clients of mine, paying that higher price were mostly converted accounts from dial-up and had been with me for years. Now had those clients found out I was charging a lower price to others for the same service, they probably would have gotten angry about it.
Did I screw those clients? No. I gave them the same price as soon as I could.
My only other option would have been to start at the low price, and hope like hell the client base built quickly, so I could stay in business. As it was, the clients that paid more got quality service and when I could afford it, they got the lower price as well.
The only difference here, is that it became public knowledge before the process had time to work.
Do you feel your $30/month has gotten you quality service? If yes, then you should applaud HTC's effort to find out if the timing is right for a lower price.
You paying $30/month are not second class, you are not being screwed, you are, in fact the reason HTC may be able to get to a lower price point, and the reason they have been able to offer quality service since day one.
If you answer no to the above question, then you should not be here anyways.
Strictly from a business point of view, I find no flaw in what they are trying to accomplish or in the manner they approaching it. The only flaw, is the fact that it came to light too soon. Had no one known about it, nothing would have changed. Those of you who are quitting, would still be flying and happy about it.
This is why I think some of you have personalized this.
Oh, and many of you are making some rather gross assumptions about the target demographic. No one from HTC has stated what that demographic was, and it is none of our business.
Anyways,...just doing my part to get this thread to 200.
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Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
President, AppLink Corp.
http://www.applink.net
skuzzy@applink.net
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huhuhuhuh the last fiew weeks i simply get bored p.sed and all what u can about AH
if the LW planes to god that is no god all the dwebs will fly if they Tricky to fly what is not actualy the situation in AH, well the trick is a warp thta all about 190 what not give any big respect a hell with the price
but the folkz who pay 30$ i think merite some PREMIUM package othervise ......
for exaple NO perk for 30 $ :-)) a stupid example but is it not my job to find out what is the premium (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
well nobady like it when for the same product people pay diferent prices will wonder if HTC crew in next shoping in lokal supermarket get biled 200% extra, the answer Mr Pyro is it just to test you reaction (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Ok I will answer one more time.
I know a guy who has a 9,95$/month offer and will probably accept it. He has told me 2 hours ago, no kidding.
He will paying 10 bucks/month until the end of time, an ammount I doubt will be implemented in AH (it is wayyy too few money for making AH profitable). Being as it is this guy will be more than probably, paying less money than me forever.
YOu may say that 20$ is not a difference to whine for. 15$, or 10$ either. let me tell you ,you have your business, you have your life and 99% of you have wayyyy more money that I have now. For me even 5$ is a BIG difference, letting aside the consideration that people who have abused the trial time for 2,3 ,4 even 5 times, is paying less than me ,one who has allways done the impossible to pay the full 30$ amount,and always said that AH was worth it.
If I had money it won't be such a biggie for me. I havent so it is a BIG thing.
And more because this is making a big difference between loyal customers and others who chose not to pay. The reward for us for believing in AH and supporting HTC is to pay three times the ammount that others who left?!?!?!
Thanks for rewarding our loyalty, really. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Again, they could have given 6 months of reduced rate, and see the results. THey gave lifetime offer.
I was pissed with the 19.95$ thing. But 9.95 is the 30% of what I pay!.
Now I'm not pissed anymore, now I'm raged.
Sorry everyone if I find this unnaceptable, BUT I DO. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 10-25-2000).]
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Hehehhehheeeeeee..
Sorry everyone if I find this unnaceptable, BUT I DO.
And so; you are going to do.... ???
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
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Originally posted by Hangtime:
Hehehhehheeeeeee..
And so; you are going to do.... ???
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
TO think about this.
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I just had to cancel my HTC account because of my financial situation. Had I gotten an E-Mail saying I could Come Back for $19.95 a month I would be all over it. I was in early on the open beta, and it hasn't been a month since I canceled.
I don't think anyone thinks of me as a quake flyer, and I hope I gave some good input that added to the strategy system implemented.
I would like to come back, I just can't do it at $29.95 a month. If HT/Pyro offered me a $19.95 account I would sit down with the wife and try and convince her that we could afford the cost. I myself crunched the numbers and $29.95 just isn't do-able, especially with Christmas coming. $19.95 a month might not be do-able with Christmas coming, but a $14.95 a month account option would have me begging the wife to let me sign back up.
Now having spouted all that out.
HTC is doing market research to see if they can attract and hold more customers by lowering their monthly subscription fee.
As Pyro said if they would have said, "Hey folks were going to lower the price, you have three choices, $24.95 Per Month, $19.95 Per Month, or $14.95 per month, please everyone vote."
Very many, probably the majority of us would say $14.95 a month.
The question is can HTC Stay in business at $14.95 a month. I think that is what most of us want, I think even the folks who Fly Warbirds want HTC to stay in business, look what has happened over there. iEN now has a flat rate, and there is sufficient evidence that WBIII is more than just vaporware. I don't believe iEN can ever go back to hourly charges, and all that had to come about because there is a new kid on the block.
HTC has to find a price that will attract customers and continue to allow them to afford development costs and hopefully maintain and update their equipment.
So $14.95 may not be the price that HTC can live with.
So they tried to find out how much fish they could catch with the new bait, and the fish in the bucket are not all happy with that.
HTC is damned if they do, damned if they don't.
I think it is a bit crass of badger to bring this out, and not give HTC a chance to break the news to us.
Now it seems that HTC will have to have a monthly subscription of $19.95 a month regardless, and what if they can't afford to operate at $19.95 a month.
I think it's great all the guys who say they will pay $29.95 a month, or $60 a month or whatever. Perhaps they can sponsor a wannabe online sim pilot who is a little down on his luck at the moment. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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"Looks Mean as Hell! Clare Lee Chenault.
(http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1/06212.gif)
When?
"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
[This message has been edited by Downtown (edited 10-25-2000).]
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Originally posted by Downtown:
HTC is damned if they do, damned if they don't.
I think it is a bit crass of badger to bring this out, and not give HTC a chance to break
Downtown, why did they give lifetime offers? why not temporal? THAT is the problem , THAT is where the problems come from. THAT is their mistake, and it is a big mistake IMO.
One thing is to do a bussiness thing to get new customers giving them a reduced rate for some months.
other thing is to give them that rate forever.
And if bagder had not brought this out I'd have done it by myself. I use to be in an IRC channel where 3 people have told me that they were flying two of them at 15$ and one at 10$. As you can imagime I won't have remained shut about this.
And yah know I had to read a thing like this:
"hey RAM, do you know who's flying AH at 15$/month?"
only to hear the next line:
"oh, I have a 10$ offer"
Sorry, this is getting me even more angry than I was...to hear that when I have been removing sky and earth to find the damned money I lack to pay the F***ing 30$... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
better for me to stop posting in this thread till tomorrow the sooner. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 10-25-2000).]
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I agree to some extent with Badger, Jedi, RAM, Maverick et al, but I think it too early to draw any conclusions about these 'offers'. Clearly, the range of offers (from $20 to $10) is designed to find a compromise between attracting the maximum number of customers while making a decent profit. I can see why no time limit was set on the offer; essentially the test simulates a situation where the subscription price is set at that level for everyone, to gauge the number of customers gained. This much is obvious.
However, like the minority who have already posted here, the same test results could have been gained from an offer lasting 6 or 12 months.
If no reductions in subscription price arise because of this, then I would consider not playing anymore. I empathise 100% with those who say would leave. However, I see this as unlikely given the current climate in the online community. A price decrease is almost inevitable.
Several people have said they don't mind continuing to pay $30, even when other people are paying less. This surprises me. When you watch a football match you expect to pay the same as those in the same part of the ground as you, and would surely be very unhappy if the bloke sat next to you was paying $10 less. If HTC was struggling, then I might agree with paying more to keep the game going - but the company doesn't seem to be going that way.
To the guys who have said they would pay $30 because they believe the entertainment they enjoy is worth that - are you going to continue paying $30 when the price decrease is made universal? I'd be very surprised if anyone did.
In conclusion, I think time will tell. In 3 months time we might all be paying $24.95.
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RAM,
Pyro should have put a clause in that the folks with the limited offer accounts needed to agree to not say anything. I guess?
I understand where you are coming from, I can't afford the $29.95 a month, and I love to fly.
I am actually envious of you that you can afford to fly. Tight as it may be.
I can understand why you are upset.
But I worry that now everyone (or nearly everyone) will demand a $9.95 a month account and HTC won't be able to stay in business.
What good is it for us to pay $9.95 and have HTC fold in six months, or get bought up by Microsoft or iEN? I tried Fighter Ace and didn't like it.
We need HTC to stay in business, maybe they can do it at $9.95 a month, I hope so, but now their choice is very limited isn't it. According to you and a few others there are folks with $9.95 accounts, there is going to be a rash of folks quitting unless they get $9.95 accounts.
I hope HTC can afford that kind of bite out of their budget?
I think Pyro was trying to find a reasonable price that they got a larger portion of new customers, and would still show a profit. Now their choices are going to be very restricted!
Great if HTC can afford to take a 60% loss this month, and will be able to operate and upgrade at the new reduced budget!
What if now a mutiny occurs, HTC switches to a $9.95 subscription price, and the bundle of new accounts doesn't occur because all the FA and AW folks decide the flight model is too challenging and the learning curve is too steep.
Bye Bye Aces High.
I think what will be needed is a poll of current subscribes who are on the border of affording the $29.95 a month. A poll of them stating what they can honestly afford, something less than $29.95 but more than $9.95.
Right now I think this is a bad thing, great for the subscriber who appears to be inline for great savings, but it has me worried about the viability of HTC.
What good will it be to pay $9.95 a month only to have HTC fold in six months?
Right now, I don't see my way back before Christmas, even at $9.95 or $14.95.
After Christmas, finances allowing I was perfectly willing to come back at $29.95.
If I get offered $14.95 I will actually sit down with my wife and beg to sign back up.
I really feel $14.95 is something I can afford, I think it is fair. I think AH is better quality than Fighter Ace and worth a higher subscription fee.
I say $14.95 know full well that there may be folks who will fly at $9.95 and that I probably can't afford $14.95 right now.
Even if HTC can operate at $9.95 a month, I think they have done a great job so far, and I want the business to flourish and expand. I want them to offer a MAC version of AH.
I don't want them to go out of business.
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"Looks Mean as Hell! Clare Lee Chenault.
(http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1/06212.gif)
When?
"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
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Dammit Hangtime you were SO close.... poke him a couple more times will ya? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I'll say this one more time everyone, in case you missed it:
"Beware jealosy, for it is the green-eyed monster that mocks it's prey." - William Shakespear, Othello (as close as I can come from memory)
When you find yourself being outraged, have a think about that quote.
Respectfully,
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
(http://tuweb.ucis.dal.ca/~dconrad/ahf/lepht.gif)
"My P-47 is a pretty good ship, she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip.
Just thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip, always got me through so far."
- Steve Earl
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3. Billing/Pricing Changes - HiTech Creations reserves the right to change its rates and prices at any time, effective upon a 30-day written or electronic notice to current HiTech Creations members.
The above is what the current membership agreed to at $29.95
Hmmm so these new ppl are offered the new rate for as long as they wish with a guarantee that HTC will never adjust the price?!
SKurj
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After reading most! of this thread my thoughts are these:
as a long time customer (beta) i have supported HTC all along the way and i feel they have provided me with a product unmatched by any other ive played.
$29.95 a month is expensive in my veiw considering full games dont cost much more and some provide free servers etc.
But I was willing to pay this amount because a)WB was more expensive but not as good
b)there was nothing else that came close (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
c)its a great game!
well reason a no longer applies..reason b may no longer apply when WW2 online appears
and reason c still holds.
im happy with this marketing move but only if it benefits me the customer,and a loyal one at that.If in future HTC does reduce the price then all is well but if the price remains the same and others are still paying $19.95 im sorry but this will be too much!.Im sorry but i wont pay $30 when others are paying $20 indefinately.
As far as im concerned it is a brave move but one i welcome with some trepidation.I only hope it works.
the clock is ticking for me on this one....
hazed
[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 10-25-2000).]
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Several people have said they don't mind continuing to pay $30, even when other people are paying less. This surprises me. When you watch a football match you expect to pay the same as those in the same part of the ground as you, and would surely be very unhappy if the bloke sat next to you was paying $10 less. If HTC was struggling, then I might agree with paying more to keep the game going - but the company doesn't seem to be going that way.
There is quite a difference between being willing to pay $30 and wanting to pay more than you have to. I have two options, I can pay $30 and keep playing, or I can stop playing. The enjoyment is easily worth $30 to me, so I opt for that, no need to read anything more into it.
I daresay that at any given good football game, you will indeed find as many different prices paid in a given row as there are seats. Again, it boils down to each person's decision on whether they're prepared to pay a given amount for a ticket, or not, and not get a ticket. If the scalpers overestimate demand, those coming in last minute tend to get tickets even cheaper than face value.
Heck, I'd like to play for free, but for now the price is $29.95, so that's what I'm paying.
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My friend just joined for 180 dollars canadian a year.
I pay 540 dollars canadian per year For 360 dollars I could do one of.
Buy a DVD player.
Buy 2 cases of beer a month.
Take out my wife to dinner 3-4 times
Buy my kids each a bike
Buy 9 model kits.
All while enjoying the same game.
People are leaving all kinds of neat sayings out of their threads.
How about..
There is one born every minute.
and
The customer is allways right.
People apperently want a bored here where eveyone worships HTCs every move. The more accuratly you point out problems and the more eleqoutly(sp) you present them the nastier the replys get. Badger, How dare you reveal this to the public! You must be an egg head or something.
Peace all. Spend your money where you like. Complain to the proprieter as you like. Last time I checked it was not a hanging or a character asassination offence.
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Funny thing , all this wouldn't be necessary if one of you brilliant business types who know's so much about the online industry could answer for me (the one who know absolutely nothing about the online flight sim business) one simple question.
What percentage increase in customers can HTC expect at.
19.95
15.95
9.95
No guessing at the answer ,opinions are not worth anything in this,I need evidence and facts base on what AH is today and our way of doing continued advancement.
You also need to acquire this information in the least expensive means possible.
To answer the 2 key point's of this discussion.
1. Not making the offer as unlimited would cause a worse back lash against us.
Putting it out as a special for a few months would be viewed as a customer drive by both the community and the person receiving the offer.
The complaints would be "Hey I want my account credit since I didn't get the limited months"
This would also taint the results of the survey because the recipient of the e-mail would view it as a gimmick to get more customers or other wise think that it's just a ploy to get me hooked.
2. Informing players before we did it would have even a worse back lash. People would then be saying ill quit if you make an unfair offer like that. Thing is once someone makes a threat like that they are even more likely to Carrie it out, and are making the threat to try to influence your thinking. When you go against there threat, it's even more of a slap in the face to them.
3. This is not a knee jerk reaction from us, pyro and I have discussed pricing long before any of you heard of AH and have been building and discussing a plan on how to do this survey since mid summer.
Our initial concerns were that the existing player base would flame us for it,just like we get flamed by some of the few no matter what we do. But quite frankly ill take a few flames for an accurate answer to the rate question.
If I had the time I would go back and pull all the pricing threads on this board and list them here. There are lots of opinions in those threads but none of them mean anything or can be quantified with even the slightest bit of accuracy.
Where we will go in the future.
As of today we have not decided what our price point will be in the future. It might change it might not. That's the question this survey should answer for us.
And to the people who have responded to the survey I say thank you very much. Your discount is the price I pay for the information that I desire.
To our current loyal customer base, I do hope you understand why we conducted this survey.
But in the end it's still the same question, do you think AH is worth the price you pay as always all of us at HTC strive to make this so.
P.S. I love the spell checker.
HiTech
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Hehe, the spell checker doesn't catch "carrie (carry)" or "there (their)". LOL!
I find this whole situation similar to buying a car, then finding out it is going on sale two weeks after the purchase. Anoying, yes, but that's life in the big city.
I noticed AH banners up on a site or two (con-batsim.com for one)....good on you guys, if you want more customers, go to where most of them hang out. (Csim gets over 30 million hits a month). I hope a whole new batch of players shows up, it'll benefit us all.
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Wow, nice reply HT. Made sense to me.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Thanks for the post HT.
AKDejaVu
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Hazed said it all for me.
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ezdoc
48th Fighter Group "Checkertails"
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HT, thanks for the responce.
A few things:
I wish i had the eliquence that Badger has and the Spell checker HT has.
Vadr, I don't know why, but your responce offended me. I am a business man, and I have a limited education, so my words don't "flow" like Badgers. But I do run a successful business. I admire your sticking up for a friend, but choose your words "alittle" better.
I admire the staff at HTC for sticking theirs necks out on this offer, fully understanding it is a double edge swing. As a small Business owner (11 fulltime employees) I understand trying to gain NEW customers without losing the old ones. Do I have different prices for different clients? YOU BETCHA! will I offer new customers lower prices to gain them as a client? YOU BETCHA!!!! Can i say You betcha 3 times? YOU BETCHA!!!
I have to admire HTC's constant visibility in the Game and on the BBS. I know of very few companies that care how the customer feels and ask their oppinions like HTC.
NUTTZ
David Flora
Graphix One
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I was one of those lucky(?) people who happened to get the $19.95/month offer.
I, for one, am still not going to take it; however I still filled out the survey with the hope that my experiences might help those who do pay for Aces High.
As someone who spends hours upon hours on the phone everyday conducting telephone surveys for various businesses, I can certainly understand why HTC did what they did, and agree with how they did it.
How would you people react if HTC came up one day and said they were going to do a "test" and lower the price for everyone for 3 months to $19.95, only to raise it back to $29.95 when they found they didn't get the reaction they hoped?
They'd lose 100x as many people as they might lose via this method.
I just find it ironic that these hypocrits are walking around talking about how "loyal" they've been to HTC, meaning they deserve a lower rate too, only to drop it like a rotting carcass when HTC does something that can only be called good business.
Way to show your "loyalty"
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Let's be honest. Look at the pole asking the community thier wishes for future latewar aircraft in another forumn. Count the individuals answering.
Now count the folks who have viewed the 'special' price plans in this topic and a coupel of others in a negative way. I gather they are a very small minority of people.
More people have supported HTC or said they had no problem with what they were (are) doing and even larger group don't even care to comment.
I think the potty word filter had more of a shake, rattle and roll effect on the folks here.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 10-25-2000).]
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I quote Hitech:
"Our initial concerns were that the existing player base would flame us for it,just like we get flamed by some of the few no matter what we do. But quite frankly ill take a few flames for an accurate answer to the rate question."
I read this as "we know this is gonna piss people off but we don't care". Nice attitude guy, you just lost all respect I had for you. And secondly your test results are gonna be completely flawed because this only applies to a select few. Can I tell my friends "hey it's only 19.95 now, come and join"? No I can't, so you'll never see the accurate numbers you would get if you made your price changes across the board. You guys are acting more like a big corp. than a small company now, It's really too bad (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Nuttz said:
Vadr, I don't know why, but your responce offended me. I am a business man, and I have a limited education, so my words don't "flow" like Badgers. But I do run a successful business. I admire your sticking up for a friend, but choose your words "alittle" better.
My apologies, it was not the intent of my message to offend, only to educate.
Still, having re-read my post, if I were to re-write it, I would use terms and language more harsh, not less. I too run my own business and my livelihood depends on my decisions. Badger is my superior at such issues, and I would pay good money to obtain his advice. I am fortunate enough to count him among my friends, but I do not allow that fact to cloud my judgment any more than he does.
I've read Dale's post and am a tad suprised at the tone. This information was obviously vital to HTC's future business plans, but the method of obtaining it was ill-conceived, or at least ill-executed. Say what you will about the way that this has been handled...it could have been handled much better, or at least with less disruption of the community.
I'm sorry, because I too am a fan of HTC, but I just do not buy Hitech's reasoning as outlined above. I think the whole issue was badly handled, and I think there will be long-term repercussions on the health of HTC's business model that can be directly attributed to this misstep. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
IMHO, the very best thing that HTC could do tomorrow would be to issue a retraction or amendment of the terms of the agreement as set forth to the recipients of the E-mail offer. If HTC does not do that, this will be the single biggest issue to confront this business between now and the time it is sold or taken over.
Sorry if you don't agree with me and I understand. Believe me when I say that I'm sorry to see this happening, but this was a miscalculation, and it needs to be addressed as quickly as possible.
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Vadr
Kommandeur, III/JG 2 'Richthofen' (http://www.jg2.org/)
CM, S3 Team (http://personal.smartt.com/~barbell/S3main.html)/Parser (http://www.cgidesign.net/s3/)
vadr@jg2.org
Combat Flightsim Business Forum (http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline)
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My $.02
Bravo HTC, in exploring new options in pricing. I started flying early this year in WB's ACA. It was hard then, to justify to my wife, why i should spend 10 bucks a month to play a game. I had a good friend who got me hooked on the game(Thanks BigMax <S!> ), and taught me the basics of what I know now.( now if I could just apply it, I might actually be decent at this thing) I learned about AH not long after I started flying WB's, and I decided to take them up on the 2 week free trial. I figured, what the hell, I ain't got nothing to lose. Challenging is a mild way of putting it. The FM of 1.02/1.03 was difficult to get used to. I was hooked from day 1 when I flew a goon helping capture a field for the 99th raging rooks. My 2 week free trial came to an end, and it took me almost 2 months to convince my wife to let me fly for 29.95 a month. Why did I go through all that effort? Because I thought then, and still think now that it's worth it for the enjoyment, relaxation, and stress relief I get from flying. Do I think it's still worth it now? Hell yes. I am not bothered in the least by this 9.95/14.95/19.95 pricing deal. If it helps generate a wider customer base so that HTC can continue putting out this product that I so thoroughly enjoy? Bring it on, Will I be disappointed if I don't see a price reduction in the near future? no, not really, I still think it's worth the 29.95 I pay now. When I was flying in WB, I had no idea what I was missing. I love flying fighters, when I get tired of them, I can hop in a tank, and go try to slug it out at an airfield with planes/other tanks. When I get tired of that, I can take a bomber up and really blow things up.(that's stress relief (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)) Now, I am just looking forward to what the navy will bring to this sim, damn all the pricing issues, I singed my deal a while back, for 29.95 a month and I'll honor it, HTC hasn't broken the faith with me yet, and I don't expect them to either. All of you that are choosing to quit over this, well, it's been a pleasure flying with, and dying with you online for this long, and I hope you'll be back to do it all over again in the future. I'll be here, banging away in whatever plane/truck/tank/boat/ship I want to, paying my 29.95 a month, until HTC lowers it or not, because I want HTC to be a solvent company 13 years from now when I retire from the military, and have more spare time on my hands to enjoy their product. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
<S!> Hamish!
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I guess the whiners amongst us probably feel that it was our money that you gave away. You know sorta like "When you shop lift you steal from everyone"
how about something like this......
Announcment.
Over the next month we at HTC are going to try to finalize our pricing structure. From the beginging we knew that at some point we would have to fine tune our pricing to maximize your experiance while at the same time maximizing our subscription and re- subscription rates.
In order to do this we will poll a proven but untaped market group. The players that over the last 8 months have tried our game, joined our comunity and then left after their trial period. By approaching the players that played alot we hope to target a group that have the patience to learn the game, the hardware to play it but probably left due to the cost.
For a sample from that group we will be offering a set number of full accounts at prices that are bellow the current rate.
These former players will have the choice of joining and keeping the account at that price until they cancel it. This is not a lost lead it is a genuine offer that we will honor.
The prices are substancial less then current and we realize that there will be some justified hard feelings. Our current subscibers will be helping us to fund this study and some of these people will have accounts for the duration that are signifigantly cheaper then you have.
If we could think of any less potentialy antagonistic way to get this info we would.
Why permintent accounts and not 3 month or 6 month low rate accounts. We want pilots like most of yourselves that want to stay with the game. A 3 month term would not identify them.
Keep in mind that this will likley lead to a reduced subscription rate for all ounce we have compiled the info we recieve. We are not asking any of them to join at a higher price!
In recognition of your support in this we will be raffeling off 1 free month for a player every week until we make our decision.
While we realize that some will feel slighted by this. We would point out that many accounts in out game are not full retail accounts. The trainers are compensated for thier sercices with free accounts. Some industry types get free accounts to help them evaluate our product. Access to the game is a currency we have available to use in developing our business, we have used it befor, and will again.
But we know this has a different feela and we know that many of you have made hard financial decisions to join us here. We hope that all of you will continue to particpate and enjoy the game while we conduct this study.
---
I dont know if that would have helped..but it helped me to write it. i feel better now...
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Where we will go in the future. As of today we have not decided what our price point will be in the future. It might change it might not. That's the question this survey should answer for us.
Well, its simple. This is an answer from me, a paying customer:
I've been playing and paying for a long time, never did a fake account, seeing guys playing for 4-6 months without paying a single buck. Now, euro guys that played a lot and left are receiving 9,95$ or 19,95$, unlimited time, offers. What do I have to think? Its not difficult: I am waiting for a general price reduction. How long? Not more than a few weeks.
It doesnt take economists like Modigliani or Miller to understand it.
Disclaimer: this is an answer from a loyal AH customer, very happy of the sim till 1.03 version. Moderately happy now with 1.04 but still paying and supporting the staff. I have no PH.D. and dont run my own business, I simply look at my c/c bill every month.
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 10-26-2000).]
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HT, god knows I think you are a great pogrammer and a still better person.
But I see people who has abused no less than 5 times the trial flying now for 15bucks/month. While I have been loyal, NEVER abused the trial thing and have payed monthly (And gladly) 30$ month.
I dont know if AH is worth it or not. Believe me (I am putting my word on this), if I could afford with no problem 30$ month I'd had said "I dont like it, blah blah blah" but would keep on paying 30$ with no problems.
As it is, I fight each month to get the money to pay AH, it is a BIG effort for me. ANd to know that if I had abused the trial, to know that if I had flown for months for 0$, and now I would've been offered 20$,15$, or even 10$ a month for flying AH, is more than pissing.
It is ,for me, an (unwanted,I am sure) insult to my loyalty, to my efforts, to my love for this game. You are bassicaly telling me that, because I didnt cheat, now I am paying 3 times more, 2 times more or 50% more than people who has cheated?.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) sorry, I wont fight anymore to get 30$. I wont keep me at home a couple of saturdays to prevent me going out to have a couple of drinks that can break my money for AH.
I feel betrayed. I feel insulted.
BUt, over all, i feel very very very very very sad
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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I am not eloquent in speach , so please bear with me.
Badger , This can of worms that was opened with your post surely could have waited.
Did you consider talking with the staff at HTC before posting ?
It was pointed out that you are qualified in business matters, does that mean you are qualified to vocally slam marketing strategies in front of the companies customers?
That in my opinion is a matter of poor judgment and taste.
Would I prefer paying less? YES! Am I enjoying what I am paying for at the current rate? YES!
You have put a Deep wedge in the community and in some cases caused harmfull attitudes towards the driving force in this game. This to me seems to be against everything you stand for.
In my opinion Badger, You've done wrong.
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Originally posted by Ping:
In my opinion Badger, You've done wrong.
Dont blame him. I'd have done it only with 12 hours of difference, when I had seen those guys flying for half,or a third the money I pay.
Don't blame the messenger. Never.
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Ping,
look ... this can of warms has been opened by internet itself. This thing is on the main italian online sim newsgroup, is on our private and public forums. Italian guys who left AH e-mailed us and posted the offers on our private and public forums about it, asking for our opinion.
How could you think to keep this thing reserved? How long time: hours? minutes?
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No, Ping, Badger have done right.
We as customers need transparency from the company offering the service, is not a law, I guess, but is part of loyal behavior.
I, IMHO, don't think this choice to have some feedback from the market was a bad one, is lot less expensive of a large scale experts made commercial research, and for my POV will have a good payback in the future for us oldie in terms of reduced rate.
Will be nice, indeed, to understand the method used to choice the people offered, because we all know very well lot of the "change mail, next trail" issue (and some of us do this once before subscribe (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/redface.gif) ).
One think I have to point to HTC is the choice to not inform us about this, and a letter like ping's (S! very good writing) cut have avoid a lot of the bad feelings we are proving now (betrayed or whatever), explaining the reasons of the choice.
But this is gone in that way, hoping HTC will learn to be more transparent when our money are involved (1$=2300 ITL now (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif) ).
I hope this will end, after the survey, in a reduced rate for all customers, and personally, I will forgive this diplomatic mistake HTC has made (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif), I still feel to trust in HTC's honesty.
For now.
And...
Give me the ME-163!!! I hate stratobuffs !!!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Naso
4° Stormo Caccia "F.Baracca" (http://www.4stormo.it)
L'è Buna!!
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just a note, not everyone who once used AH
2 weeks trail got this new offer.
For me it sounds really interesting now what
happen with the price & AH. May finaly a chance for me to re-join the AH Clan (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Gh0stFT
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Ram: There are some things you expect from some individuals.
You by your own admission are hot tempered and quick to react. But by the same token, are you saying that you should be able to go to a place of business and flame the owners publicly in front of customers over their pricing policy?
Its no doubt that this would spread like wildfire.
However Badger is supposed to be a business man. As such,I would have expected him to act as one.
I am a contractor, It is expected that I will not go to a supplier and argue with a sales rep over my material costs in front of customers. That is done in an office in private. Its called couth and class.
I stand by my original post, He did not act like a business man. It showed a lack of class.
He throws a huge flamefest to the wind and then Quietly dissappears into the night,
That smells of cowardice and toejam disturber.
That does not speak of a class business act.
He was quick to condemn a business decision of another company, and in part I beleive because HTC did not act on ideas that his group forwarded.
Care to discuss this further? I wll still be here to carry it on.
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If certain things are not to be discussed on this board then i think its time to set up another board on an independent host where you can discuss every topic about AH.
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
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Originally posted by Ping:
Ram: There are some things you expect from some individuals.
You by your own admission are hot tempered and quick to react. But by the same token, are you saying that you should be able to go to a place of business and flame the owners publicly in front of customers over their pricing policy?
I go to a Bar and I ask for a cup of wine. The bartender tells me that its worth 2$. I can say "hey that's expensive", if the wine is normal, or say "expensive, but worth it" if its awesome.
If I see another guy come to my side and ask for a cup of the same wine, the same ammount of the same wine, and the bartender asks him for 1$, believe me, yes I'll flame him to return my money back as I had payed the double for the same service.
Worth 30$ or not, there are people paying for 10$/month. And the fact that a lot of this people has abbused several times the free trial time,yet they are paying less than me, is an insult.
I dont flame HTC itself. I do flame their aproach to this matter.
I am sure they never wanted this to happen and that htey did this thing with the best of the intentions. That is the only reason I have my account still open.
Other thing is to know how much time will it last open. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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I read this as "we know this is gonna piss people off but we don't care". Nice attitude guy, you just lost all respect I had for you.
Why can't you read it as, say: "...we know this is gonna piss people off but we can't do much about it - you piss some people off no matter what you do..."?
Lots of people seem to feel "betrayed" - why? Is it because they offered this to "the other guy"?
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lynx
13 Sqn RAF
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Originally posted by -lynx-:
Lots of people seem to feel "betrayed" - why? Is it because they offered this to "the other guy"?
Oh, no. I mean, not only.
It is because a guy that I know has had 6 trial accounts is now flying for 15 bucks a month.
ANd other who had 4 or 5 (dont know exactly) for 10.
I'd feel the same if there were only normal people involved, but to see this cheaters "REWARDED" for their cheats is absolutely indignant...
Oh, well, taking another good time before writing here more posts...as i am getting raged again (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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<DELETE>
I´m actually agreeing with RAM hehe.
[This message has been edited by Maniac (edited 10-26-2000).]
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<deleted>
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 10-26-2000).]
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First of all, let me say that I like both Badger and Vadr. They are good guys and are well written/spoken.
That being said, I would appreciate it if all of you business gurus would please check your ego's at the door when you post about this topic. Most of us here are not business experts, just intelligent, thinking customers(who happen to be experts in other fields). Please don't beat us over the head with your business expertise, because this issue doesn't require the services of an MBA to understand, alright?
You are as entitled to your opinion as much as the rest of us, so please share in the discussion. Just don't hold the "I own a business" thang over our heads while doing it.
Thank you.
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Lets all look at this realistically here ,
Those who were in the beta then have played at the higher monthly price have helped the game get off the ground ,
now they want to explore some cheaper pricing plans and they do a simple test which I beleive pyro is right if ya just send a survey of course everyone is gonna go with the lowest bid ,
that doesnt mean that the old time flyers are getting screwed once the sweet spot for pricing was found im sure they would have offered the lower price to everyone .
nuff Said
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<deleted>
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 10-26-2000).]
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Well of course, gatt. But why let your wookie get all bent out of shape before HTC has a chance to find out if the lower pricing is going to work by bringing in more people? If they don't lower the price for everyone after they've completed the survey, then you can complain all you want.
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Just a quick question, were the $ 9 dollar rates only in Europe?
I trade against the Euro on a 24/7/365 basis and the strengh in the dollar has made for some interesting opportuntities in the world of commodities.
Will we see rates of online games spread back against currency exchange rates?
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Milo
3./JG2
"Horrido"
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Well, thats it for me!
After being a faithful customer since the .33 beta, and shelling out the 30 bucks a month for all this time. Im done with aces high.
My account will be canceled as soon as im done with this reply. Sad too, I really like Aces High, but will not be treated as second rate. 30 bucks is alot of money to me..it has been nip and tuck trying to convince wife, and my creditors of this monthly expense. Now I find out its only 20 bucks to someone that hasnt bled one red cent to these guys? sorry..im outta here..hmm..warbirds at 25 bucks..gotta give it a try
Granger
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Sorta off topic, but;
RAM, Downtown and others who find it hard to scratch up $30.00 a month for AH:
How much do you typically spend each year to keep your computer and joysticks up to date? And how about your ISP account?
Are you guys running 486's, 2 button joysticks and Free-I accounts?
Do you:
Own cars? Pay rent? Buy beer? Ever buy new clothes? Ever been to, or even rented a movie? Ever eaten out (even fast food)?
It all comes down to priorities guys.
I've been driving an $800 beater for the past 5 years. I buy my clothes in thrift stores.
For me, AH works out to 35 to 75 cents an hour. It's a pretty good deal compared to everything else that I buy or pay for.
eskimo
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Originally posted by Granger:
Well, thats it for me!
Granger
This, after he finds out he's paying .30 cents more a day for unlimited flying time...LOL! SEE YA!
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<deleted>
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 10-26-2000).]
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Wtg Skuzzy. I like the way you described it and the example you used. All of your customers do not interact together as we do but it still works ok for me..
-Westy
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Allright..heres' my two cents worth. I tried Aces High after flying many years of Air warrior. I paid only ten dollars a month for Air warrior. I full well realized that AH costs 29.95 a month when I tried it out. I liked it so well I thought it was worth the 29.95 per month ,compared to Air Warrior, well there is no comparison. Most of us agreed to pay the 30 bucks, yes it would be nice if it 19.95 a month, but we all (most) signed on at 29.95. Marketing success is based on knowing facts, those that tried the game and did not sign on have a reason...no harm in finding out why people did not stay longer after the initial trial period. If this information helps HTC draw new players so be it. Let's continue to make AH the success it is, If you build it, they will come.....specially if it's well built and is fun to play. Don't get me wrong....I'd love to see 19.95 <G> but I agreed to pay 29.95 so I have no complaints. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by Badger:
so I'll publicly ask the obvious questions on behalf of current Aces High subscribers.
Actually Badger, I didn't give you permission to speak on my behalf. That was abit presumptuous on your part.
Just as presumptuous as HTC running his own business, I guess.
Cobra
"Hey! Heres a thought, lets let them run their businesses, and lets just play the games!!!"-----HBlair
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I just can't get used to HT with a spell checker. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Oh, yeah, the price thing....
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RING!! RING!!
Bobby: "Hello!"
Jimmy: "Hey Bobby, What cha doin?"
Bobby: "Eatin, right now"
Jimmy: "Ya gona play Quake at seven?"
Bobby: "No, but I'll be on at Eight."
Jimmy: "Why so late?"
Bobby: "Well remember that airplane game I played for free back in Janurary?"
Jimmy: "Yes"
Bobby: "Well, I'm playing it again!"
Jimmy: "But I thought your dad said it was too expensive."
Bobby: "Not anymore, my dad is only paying $10 for it!"
Jimmy: "Oh, way cool. Maybe I'll join"
Bobby: "No, you have to had quit it before to get the good deal. It's a special offer to those who did not stick with it."
Jimmy: "Well what about the people who have been playing it since the beginning?"
Bobby: "Oh, this is the great part. They are still paying the 30 bucks!"
Jimmy: "No way!"
Bobby: "Yea way! It is so cool. There is an airplane there they call the CHog, it's awesome! Ya climb real high and ya find a bunch of bad guys in nice formation. Ya know these guys have been playing awhile because they are in nice formation. Ya point the nose of this blue plane towards them and pull the trigger and BOOM, BOOM they start exploding and falling down. It is way cool!"
Jimmy: "Wow, sounds like fun!"
Bobby: "The best part is that these guys get real mad and stuff"
Jimmy: "They are not going to like you."
Bobby: "Yea, but for 10 bucks, who cares!"
Jimmy: "OK, so ya playing Quake at eight?"
Bobby: "Yea, I'll see ya in Quake, we'll kill a whole bunch of stuff, Bye!"
Click.
[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 10-26-2000).]
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Originally posted by eskimo:
Sorta off topic, but;
RAM, Downtown and others who find it hard to scratch up $30.00 a month for AH:
How much do you typically spend each year to keep your computer and joysticks up to date? And how about your ISP account?
[/b]
I haven't spent any money on my computer this year. I have helped other people fix and upgrade their computers. Two years ago I put a rivaTNT1 PCI Graphics blaster in my computer, an HP 8380 PII 350. The Graphics blaster failed yesterday, fortunately I had another on hand which I had removed from another computer that was being scrapped. I desperately would like to get a new computer with an AGP port so I can get better graphics, but don't have the money.
Are you guys running 486's, 2 button joysticks and Free-I accounts?[/b]
Nope it is a PII 350 that I brought when the PII 400 and 500s hit the market. Got it on sale. My joystick is a Logictech Wingman Force Feedback USB that I got two years ago for Christmas along with Thrustmaster Elite Rudder Pedals from my father. I pay $149.95 a year for internet access. My wife also wanted an account, which went on my credit card. She was going to pay me back, but one of the tires on my car disintegrated after 85,000 miles so I got a new set for $200.00 this put my credit card over the limit. I can't justify monthly charges for a game when Christmas is coming and I have two small children that it will break my heart to dissapoint if Santa doesn't pay a vist.
Do you:
Own cars? Pay rent? Buy beer? Ever buy new clothes? Ever been to, or even rented a movie? Ever eaten out (even fast food)?[/b]
My Car which is slightly over 2 years old has 90,000 miles on it now. I have to drive 100 miles a day to/from work. Often I log additional miles when traveling. Yes I pay rent, hope one day to buy a house. Nope, don't buy beer, Haven't rented movies in ages, haven't been to a movie since the most recent star wars (took the kids too, matinee)
Actually, I eat out a lot, usually when I have to travel. If you have a job like I do it is part of the job, you travel, you have to eat. Often if I will be somewhere for a week I save expense money by buying bread and lunch meat. I don't like to eat out, especially fast food, often I have no choice. This is money that I am paid in expenses though.
It all comes down to priorities guys.[/b]
Right now my priorities are to reduce my debt, and hopefully be able to get my wife and kids Christmas presents, I don't buy anything if I can avoid it.
I've been driving an $800 beater for the past 5 years.[/b]
How far do you drive to work everyday, I quite often work 7 days a week, and put 800 to 1100 mile a week on my car. I use MOBILE 1 Oil trying to get the engine to last longer, and got one of those 100,000 mile between tune up cars.
I buy my clothes in thrift stores.[/b]
Actually I am expected to maintain a certain standard of dress, I think I should get a clothing allowance, but I don't. My clothes are replaced when they are ripped, torn, worn out, or covered in paint or other debris from my work.
For me, AH works out to 35 to 75 cents an hour. It's a pretty good deal compared to everything else that I buy or pay for.
eskimo[/b]
Eskimo,
I think AH is a great deal at $29.95 a month. I love the online competition of flight sims. I love WWII Era aircraft. As you said it does come down to priorities. So one of the first thing that will suffer when your budget chages is your entertainment budget. If you are in a great financial situation, your entertainment budget will go up. If times are tough, the entertainment budget is the first one to get cut, and usually the deepest.
I actually am by comparrison probably one of the better paid individuals on this board, but that doesnt' mean my financial situation is the best. Some times bad things happen to the best of us, and it cost money to get out of debt. My particular situation is that a company I used to work for was going bankrupt. They took the money from our checks for insurance. My son spent three days in the hospital in a oxygen tent. The company had canceled the insurance and not informed the employees. The company went bankrupt and I found out about seven months later that I owed about $6000.00. No lawyer would take our case because they thought they wouldn't get the money from the now bankrupt company. When times get tough, and you have an unexpected debt, times get tougher. We made arrangements to pay this debt off, but other little difficulties arose after this one. Which of course made my situation more difficult. I was just getting back in stride when the last little series of disasters hit (I.E. Tires.)
It isn't one thing I can do or eliminate to afford AH at the moment. Every penny I make is working to eliminate debt. When I can reduce the debt to income ratio, I will be back. I can be back sooner with a lower rate, but I will be back. Probably after Christmas.
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"Looks Mean as Hell! Clare Lee Chenault.
(http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1/06212.gif)
When?
"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
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I suppose the following....
90% of those who have stated they are quitting, will not! If they do, they will return.
So....get off the board...delete your accounts....then come back....then, let's go blow stuff up! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I'm Out!
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Being such a popular topic and all, and keeping up with AH and it`s patches and updates, and having a few squadies who fly AH, here is my .02 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I tell you if I had an AH account I would not be too happy about this. There is a lot of posts in this thread but it would come down to simply this if I was an account holder.
I understand the importance of marketing and trying to pull in new customers, but to charge your customers all different ranges at $10, $15, $20, $30 all for the exact same product and service and let it be publicly known is not good.
If I had been paying $30 per/mo for some time, and the new guy next to me is now paying $10 per/mo for the same service, yes I would be upset. And I would feel I have a right to be upset.
In the automotive wholesale business there is no set price and will I give different prices to different customers for the same exact car? Yes. But this is not the car business.
AH is not a one time sale or price, it is a monthly subscription for the same service to all it`s customers, and IMO all paying customers should get the same price for the same product.
For those of you who have been here for some time now and have contributed highly to AH I really feel for you. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Skybax
328th Fighter Squadron
www.352ndFighterGroup.com (http://www.352ndFighterGroup.com)
Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney
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I want to see Hitech Creations, Inc. survive.
I'm thinking that it is important at this point for HTC to compete directly with WB for thier customers. Things can be really touch and go for a new company. Targeting individuals who have the ability to influence or "drag" others over along with them makes sense, and I think this is what they are doing.
I really don't care though, it's academic. I believe that HTC is doing what is best to make sure that the company stays belly down, and that is what I want. HTC has a proven track record for respecting their customers, and giving value and quality. Everything they have done has been toward this end, so why assume the worst on this special rate deal? Hold your courses!
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I have an ex squaddie in AW that had a free WB's "beta" account that he used all the time for free. He and a boat load of other folks finally had that pulled out from under thier feet a couple of months ago.
He did some beta testing for a while when he first had the account but after that it was free load willy.
Now if I'd been a WBer and found out about that...why, ...why...WHY, I'd have damned quit WB's over that for sure!!!! <eye roll>
-Westy
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Surprised that this thread has gone this far? Nope!
I have read all the posts in this thread and have come to a few conclusions.
- Players are pissed knowing others have the opportunity to pay less for the same thing that they pay more for
- Players love this game, hence the whine about pricing, or they would simply go over to the competition with little comment
- Players aren't willing to take the comments made by HTC in good faith, over any pre-conceived notions they might have had
- Players whine about what effects their pocket book only moderately, as if it was a mortal wound to their spirit inspired by jealousy
Go back and search a few threads. Search under "Badger" as the poster and "financial" or "business" as key words. IMO this post by Badger, while not mean hearted in any way, is kind of a "I told you so!". It is nothing new from him.
Just remember this:
Business Consultants are like the guy who can tell you a thousand ways how to give intimate pleasure a women, but has
no lady friend himself.[/list]
Put your balls out for all to see?
I would like to see how fast your courage drains like shriveled prunes. It is very easy to criticize and to judge when it is someone else taking the risks. They have have their balls laid out and yours are safely protected.
Sorry, long post! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"Hind tit suckin whiners. Begone with yah!"
Hangtime
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Actually, I'm kind of disappointed to see this thread seemingly stall out just past 200...was looking for a 300 post super-monster.
Does it help that HTC gave all of the FDBs free-flagged accounts in exchange for a freebie with Fatty's mom during the Con?
SOB
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What's all this Rah Rah Badger stuff? Is he Bill Gates or something?
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I just heard about this....
And I have no problem with it whatsoever.
If HTC needs to do market research, more power to them. I'll keep paying my $30.00 a month.
I DO have a friend who is much more likely to keep his account if it were $20.00 a month.
Sisu
-Karnak
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Three words for ya: WAH WAH WAH
I have never heard so much pathetic whining in my entire life. I am still fairly new around here, but really guys, it all boils down to one thing....
You either pay to play or you leave.
Nobody is forcing you to play this sim. Its a choice that you make. I am sure that once HTC gets all the data they need that they will do the right thing. I am not rich by any means, but I enjoy flying this sim immensely and am getting involved in the scenarios and stuff now too, so for me the $30 a month is worth it. So it means that I dont go to McDonalds as much or that I only go out for lunch once a week at work...big deal.
On a side note: RAM - if you knew that people were cheating HTC with free two week trials, why didnt you turn them in? Now you are squeaking about them getting a lower rate than you, but if you had said something sooner, my guess is that they would not have got the "special offer" in the first place. But that is just my opinion.
Good day fellas (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by sling322:
On a side note: RAM - if you knew that people were cheating HTC with free two week trials, why didnt you turn them in? Now you are squeaking about them getting a lower rate than you, but if you had said something sooner, my guess is that they would not have got the "special offer" in the first place. But that is just my opinion.
Good day fellas (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I am well known for my deep distaste of this kind of abusing.
The reason that I never said a word was that I never knew it until they could not open more accounts.
I did report more than one abuser to HTC crew, if you have any doubts, ask them.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 10-26-2000).]
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Minotaur: There are those of us that are pissed off that people cant see it for what it was...Marketing strategy.
Badger wasnt listened to by HTC so he has taken his ball and went home.
Read it for yourself in this thread. Put aside the well written language and its there.
I for one will support AH, for I love the game. I want to pay less, and hopefully in time I will.
There are those with free accounts, and I am happy for them. I'm not a jealous individual for the most part. Is this what's knotting most peoples knickers?? Jealousy?
A big question in my mind now is, Which company is Badger now going to run to and try to IMPOSE his marketing skills on?
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Jeeez Oh Pease here..!
All of this whinage has brought Ah more free advertising than they expected - they are even starting a potential tizzy session at wwIIonline off topic boards....
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Wow, go to Brazil for a week and all hell breaks loose (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). Hell of a thread to sort thru, but my 2 cents is as follows.
A business has to survive as a business. Certain risks need to be taken at specific times, often business owners find numerous options which offer partial success with no "sure thing". AH has altered the price/performance ratio of the entire online FS industry, the radical change in WB's pricing is a clear indicator of this. I'm sure the initial business plan was well thought out and a reasonable price point was determined. To change pricing in response as a reflex action might create an unworkable pricing point, to remain fixed surrenders the initiative.
All in all, a great idea for a difficult scenario...who would of thought WB would throw the towel in this quickly guys. In the end it's pretty simple, you believe in the product and people or you don't...So guess that means I'm back....porky F4U 1c and all.
I'll pay 29.95 and trust that HT and Pyro will behave like good capitalists (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Don't really give a rats butt about any of this.... just posting this for a new thread record. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
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Funny thing , all this wouldn't be necessary if one of you brilliant business types who know's so much about the online industry could answer for me (the one who know absolutely nothing about the online flight sim business) one simple question.
What percentage increase in customers can HTC expect at.
19.95
15.95
9.95
No guessing at the answer ,opinions are not worth anything in this,I need evidence and facts base on what AH is today and our way of doing continued advancement.
You also need to acquire this information in the least expensive means possible.
===========================================
I suspect that if any here reading this board were qualified enough to provide a correct, relevent answer, they would not be posting it here for free. It would most likely given be given in the Summary Section of a nicely bound 100 page Market Analysis proposal, for which you would have paid $2,000 per day over a protracted period to said brainiac.
And it would probably be worthless 6 months after he/she handed it to you.
Having said that, I can't fault you for your intent or your methods. You'll most likely get the information you need, at a fraction of the price of a hi-$ consultant (who knows less about the industry than you do). Don't worry about the resident grognards; customers whine, its what we do best.
Lugnut
[This message has been edited by Lugnut (edited 10-26-2000).]
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Why post, if you like paying the 30 bucks a month since the 8 plane set days last spring then keep flying and enjoy.
If you wana quit due to being screwed out of a newbie price break the quit, but it seems like a lotta people need this online support group to help talk them into feeling good about this one way or the other.
More pilots are more score amplifiers for the furballers and warp and lag amplifiers for the rest.
Have a nice day ya price break pukes or full price lovin dweebs.
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Hi all,
I did consider doing a walks in picks his nose shakes his head and walks out again mumbling post but two things caught my eye in the lead post of this thread, (Yes I know it's a long way back up there so here they are.....) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Originally posted by Badger:
1). As part of this effort we have developed a limited time offer for you to join our game online. We've made arrangements for you to join the ranks of massively multiplayer flying for only $19.95 per month, unlimited months, unlimited flying until you delete this account.
2). With the upcoming release of 1.05, you'll get to take part in the best naval action available online, complete with player-controlled fleets, carrier planes, shore bombardment, and PT boats.
1), Dont forget children shares can go down as well as up (When it finally bottoms out @ $9.99 will they all have to lose the ID's to get away from $19.95?
2). Player Controlled, Wehey (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
TTFN
snafu
------------------
snafus Homepage (http://www.snafu.theantcolony.com)
(http://www.snafu.theantcolony.com/Images/goondrops.gif)
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Hows about offering a reduced rate for students!!!
I am attending college and earning $80 a week!! of which 50 a month goes to HTC!! If i'd waited 2 weeks to sign up perhaps i'd have recieved one of these cheap offers +(
SKurj
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I got to thinking about this pricing thing, and low and behold it looks like the Al Gore tax plan! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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ezdoc
48th Fighter Group "Checkertails"
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I hope "if and when" a thread that announces the new lower price, will generate as many posts
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Holy toejam! I thought Al Gore was way overmodeled, but I didn't know that HTC were doing the coding.
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I pay £21.16 a month and as far as it goes for me that is cheap. up and till to day i have been paying a 1P a minute and £9.99 a month which work out for me no game just internet use between £40 and £60 pound a month and this month was the highest month ending 26/10/00 £115 pound and now thank god I am on fixed rate of £15 a month and for £21.16. Total of £36.16 I can play on a great game. HTC if you can give me it cheap please do if not then please don't charge any more. Unless you really have to becuse I think this is a great game. So keep up the hard work and offer us the best deal you can. And for all those who pay the full price like I do think about it and if you dont think its worth it them go and play somthing else or save your money. ONE VERY HAPPY CUSTOMER FROM ENGLAND HTC KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.
ps give it us cheap if you can if not you will not lose my vote.
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(http://heathblair.tripod.com/nhcouger.gif)
NIGHTHAWKS "WE BAD"
[This message has been edited by NHMadmax (edited 10-26-2000).]
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I've been flying for free for some time. I play H2H a lot. I may be a pain in the bellybutton some times, but im not an ungrateful pain in the ass. These posts implying that HT is greedy, are a crock.
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HT, give all the complainers the $19.95 a month thing and leave your supporters at $29.95. Everyones (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
sax
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We interupt or regular programming.....
Someone mentioned "Consultants"
and it made me think of a joke I read....
"A shepherd is looking after his flock on the edge of a deserted road.
Suddenly a brand new BMW screeches to a halt next to him.
The driver, a young man dressed in a Brioni suit, Cerrutti shoes, Ray-Ban glasses,
and a YSL tie gets out and proposes to the shepherd, "If I guess how many sheep you have, will you give me one of them?"
The shepherd looks at the young man, then looks at the sheep grazing and says
"All right."
The young man parks the car, connects his Toshiba notebook and cellular modem,
enters a NASA site, scans the ground using his GPS, opens a data base and 60
Excel tables filled with algorithms, then prints a 150-page report on his
high-tech mini-printer.
He then turns to the shepherd and says "You have exactly 1586 sheep."
The shepherd answers "That's correct; you can take your sheep." The
young man takes a nearby beast and puts it in the back of his BMW.
The shepherd looks at him and asks "If I guess your profession, will you return
my animal to me?"
The young man answers "Yes, why not."
The shepherd says, "You are a consultant".
"How did you know?" asks the young man.
"Very simple," answers the shepherd.
"First, you come here without being called. Second, you charge me a sheep to tell me something I already knew.
Third, you do not understand anything about what I do.
"So now please give me back my dog."
....And now back to our regularly scheduled, but always changing, "squeak" thread.
Be sure to tune into "The Zeke is TOO Uber" thread next month !
P.S. what is WITH this version of UBB ?
[This message has been edited by Snoopi (edited 10-26-2000).]
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I received one of there Survey Offers in email the other day. I hate to say it but even at 19.95/mth I won't return to Aces High. heck, not sure if I would return at 5.99/mth. I did my 2 weeks trial, wasn't for me. Plane modeling .. great, Grahics ... great, Overall Simulation ... good. But I can't realistically be immerssed into a so-called simulation of WW2 Combat that does not have historical countries.
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It is a sim for WWII aircombat. What it is not is a sim OF WWII.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 10-27-2000).]
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Hey all!! Yes its true, I've finally decided to play AH online and pay the 30.00 a month. I started flying in AW and was hooked instantly. But soon AW became ho-hum and I went in search of a real sim, not an arcade type bang-bang yank and crank no-skills needed game. What I found was AH, thanks to my bud Lizard3. I played offline for a bit but couldn't wait to go online. But alas, I balked at the thought of paying triple what I was paying for that 'other' game. When I did decide to get an account I figured a buck a day wasn't bad. Now that I've been online for over a week I must say this is the BEST sim out there. Period. Having said all that.....I must say this...I think the idea that HTC has for marketing is GREAT! More players means more targets as someone said. I agreed to pay 29.95 when I signed up and never once did I expect it to go down. I do however expect to see continuing improvements to the game and by keeping the game priced around 20 bucks or higher you keep out some of the rif-raf. I'm hoping some of my old squad mates from AW come over now. So what if they get a discount, if I couldn't have afforded the 29.95 a month I would not have signed up in the first place. So...bring on the newbies and to HTC I wish continuing success,this game rocks! And to those who don't like the idea....here, have some cheese (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Razor
Doverdawgs
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RAM;
To add insult to injury please check around with other Europeans because a forger squad mate from FA2 who lives in Germany told me that his offer is for US$ 14.95 not US$ 19.95 Maybe the offer is cheaper for Europeans unless my squaddie needs glasses?
Rgds
Beeg
P.S. Pendejos Ingratos!!!
Originally posted by RAM:
My .02$ here.
Maybe the only thing where Renfield and me agree, but for sure I dont think that this is fair. I understand that HTC wants to do a survey to see if they can get more people with 19.95$, and if it is worth the price disminution.
But I have problems to pay my monthly 29.95$ (I still havent payed this month so far, as I still lack 0.5$ to get the needed money...yes, yes .5$)...and to see newbie people with 19.95$/month forever because this ,is more than annoying, is sad for me.
I have troubles to pay this ammount of cash each month, but never whined about the price. It is (was) the same for all,it was fair.
Now there will be people paying 33% less than me forever if the experiment doesnt go well. And I can't stand that idea.
Euro depreciation against Dollar has made the price of AH for me inflate by some 30-40% since I first came here (my first payement to HTC was 4500ptas. now it is roughly 6000).
And now I aknowledge that there is an offer like this. I am paying 6000pesetas/month for this! and there is people flying for 4000? And not only that, but they will pay THAT as long as they keep their account open!?
Sorry,I can understand a survey like "would you join if we lower the price?", or even "if you do this survey you will pay 6 months at reduced price" but no a "I will lower your price forever if you do it now".
Is my humble opinion that, unaware, you have done a bad thing towards AH's community. I know nothing of business. yeah, right, nothing. But I know how do I feel now, and what will I feel when I put the money in the bank to pay an ammount of money that there are people not paying. And that I will have to pay forever if the experiment doesnt go well, while they will keep on paying reduced price.
I don't feel insulted, but I feel depreciated. And I'm not the worse case. I think in people who is paying the 30% of his monthly income (as some people has stated several times) to fly AH. How will they feel?!.
Well...I'd better go and collect .5$ to put in the bank and pay my 29.95...I am one week late for this month's paying (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 10-25-2000).]
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(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
well first i would like to say that i love and am completely addicted to AH and i pay the price i have always paid and have never thought about it changing. but while i think promotions are definitely a good ideda there r always ways to include everyone or limit the amount of favor you show to new customers, so as to not jade your faithful long term customers. i could really care less if you lower the price or offer a "deal"
some times as long as the "deal" is fair to all or the lower price is open to all. $10
or $30 i don't care as long as it is same for all. we all love the game (maybe not eachothere) but i think we can all agree that
fairness is the biggest issue not price (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
Rudedawg,
ps "this is just my opinion and i could be wrong"
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Keep the thred rolling.
I just read this 253 post thread and to me it seems as if a revolt has started.
It seems there is no other option but to lower monthly rates.
With each post here we get closer to saveing ourselves some money.
keep the posts rolling in (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
EYE
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One's for sure,
I'll wait untill the end of november...and if this ridicolous politic of differentiated pricing will not change in an uniform billing
I'll erase my account
definitively
AXE
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Yeah definately lowering the price will be a good move, I've been checking out AH for quite a time now, playing h2h etc..
The game seems very appealing to me, but I'm still hanging between AH and WBIII -that is, waiting to see the III wonder if and when it comes out..
$19.95 (or even $9.95 which would be too good to be true) might just (will) turn the scale for me to become a hitech customer. Us europeans pay already huge extra expenses for the priviledge of being online. I second the idea fully!
MrSiD
mrsidl 43rd RAF Duxford wing@WB 2.xx
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same here AXE (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif).
Except HTC finds a different way to benefit the highter prices.
Maik
[This message has been edited by maik (edited 10-29-2000).]
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Originally posted by axe:
One's for sure,
I'll wait untill the end of november...and if this ridicolous politic of differentiated pricing will not change in an uniform billing
I'll erase my account
definitively
AXE
I agree AXE, I'll same action!
Zio
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My 2 cents on pricing:
I was an FA guy, but unhappy with the lack of realism and the jerks. I heard that AH was good, so I checked out the 2 week freebie in June. I liked it, but I didn't subscribe. Reason: $30 is more than I was willing to pay.
So I got the special offer, thought about it, and decided to subscribe to AH. For me, $20 a month was acceptable. So now here I am.
I don't blame you old timers being pissed off that I am paying less than you. However, it doesn't take Carnac the magnificent to see that HTC is considering lowering the standard price, and that soon you will all be paying less.
I predict the price will soon be $20 for everyone. I further predict that the sample size of people who got the $15 and $10 offers is so small that nobody should worry about it. Just my opinions.
I further predict that you shouldn't worry about the dirtbags coming over from FA and other games. Most of them will be deterred by the flight model.
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Aloha Ed, and welcome. I think you'll see some familiar faces here. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
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Rett Buttler said it best!
FRANKLY SCARLET..I DON'T GIVE A DAMN!
Thunder
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What the hell, one more to keep it moving!
In my business we don't have to guess at what to charge. Pricing is based on cost plus profit margin. Get your spreadsheets out and let's figure out what this should cost and how much money could possibly be made then post your answers here including any expenses I haven't thought of.
Costs
X Humongous Servers
X T-1 Lines
Salaries (Assign to each employee what you would like to be paid for each job.)
Rents
Utilities
Sales Expenses
Operational Expenses
Return to investors
Corporate P-51
Corporate CHOG
Corporate shrink to deal with all this
etc. etc.
Calc out all expenses including additional hardware for growth in years 1,2,3,4,5 and project X number of paying customers in the same years to get your answers.
Beeg
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Beeg,
Don't worry about it. If you continue to talk about it the cheerleaders will simply light their pom poms and flame you for having the audacity to be critical of HTC in any way, real or imagined. It doesn't matter if you are upset or if you think something is not right. The rah rah crowd can't tolerate it and will line up to let you know you are unworthy to be critical. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Mav
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Moooom???!! When do we get to the last line of this thread, I'm tired.
(Rubbing eyes and whimpering)
Hehehehe. Plthththhth!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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*SHEESH!*
Granted, 10 bucks is 10 Bucks, And better saved, than spent if it allows more flying time (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) But I've seen nothing from HiTech Creations thus far except an Outstanding Sim with minimal problems, considering the ever changing compatability issues ALONE!
I hope they DO end up dropping the price. I'm sure it would attract more members. (It was nearly a reason for me not to signup).
But not at the expense of the quality I've grown so accustomed to.
So, Untill I see something to REALLY worry about; I'm keeping the faith! (I don't think we'll be sorry)
SALUTE!
Doc"DeMUTT"Hoover
Commanding Officer
"Skeleton Crew"
"Fly with Honour"[/i]