Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Vraciu on February 23, 2014, 07:55:30 PM
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Just making sure on this. Swastikas are banned even on victory markings?
Working on a Pony skin. The original has swastika victory flags. I need to change these to balkenkruz/iron crosses?
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There are skins in game already that use them on kill markings. I'd say that it's ok.
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There are skins in game already that use them on kill markings. I'd say that it's ok.
Surprised those made it through, my understanding was that even kill markings were supposed to be replaced by Xs or crosses.
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My understanding is they are not allowed and I'd at least ask HTC before submitting a skin with them on. Personally I replace swastika kill markings with crosses on my skins, unless they are so small in resolution they end up being a 2-3 pixel diamond shape.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ban_of_Nazi_symbols_in_Germany
It is a German law ... but HTC has (and can potentially have more) German customers.
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Use the iron cross, people get the idea.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ban_of_Nazi_symbols_in_Germany
It is a German law ... but HTC has (and can potentially have more) German customers.
"Note that the prohibition isn't tied to the symbol itself but to its use in a context suggestive of association with outlawed organizations."
Thus a kill marking on an American plane skin would NOT be illegal.
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"Note that the prohibition isn't tied to the symbol itself but to its use in a context suggestive of association with outlawed organizations."
Thus a kill marking on an American plane skin would NOT be illegal.
With interpretation left to German courts (not the court of Vraciu) HTC has prohibited the symbol to avoid all potential problems. Anything making it past their policy is just that, something that got past it. Contact HTC directly for full clarification.
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The German courts have already ruled on this. HTC has nothing to worry about.
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There is a set of guidelines listed on the HTC skins submission page regarding what is acceptable WRT skins. This includes the following:
We will not accept skins containing the German swastiska. NOTE: If you are making a skin that originally had a German swastiska, just leave the spot blank where the swastiska would have been, or change the swatiska to the Iron Cross. Use your best judgement on this.
I've always taken this to mean kill markings as well as the LW tail marking, but if you want to be sure just PM Skuzzy about it.
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NOTE: If you are making a skin that originally had a German swastiska, just leave the spot blank where the swastiska would have been, or change the swatiska to the Iron Cross.
'Cause folks don't care nearly as much about the millions of people who died due to the actions of the Kaiser :D
(Just a bit of ironic humor on this guys, I know HTC does not set the laws in other countries, etc.)
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'Cause folks don't care nearly as much about the millions of people who died due to the actions of the Kaiser :D
(Just a bit of ironic humor on this guys, I know HTC does not set the laws in other countries, etc.)
:rofl
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What plane skins currently have swastika kill markings?
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What plane skins currently have swastika kill markings?
Don't tell him or they'll get rid of 'em.
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What plane skins currently have swastika kill markings?
Allied ones. :devil
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I'm honestly curious now to which A/C has em... :headscratch:
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Just making sure on this. Swastikas are banned even on victory markings?
Working on a Pony skin. The original has swastika victory flags. I need to change these to balkenkruz/iron crosses?
Don't do it, you will definitely turn people into Nazis if they see this symbol, I seen one about 8 years ago just briefly right now I'm sitting in an SS uniform typing this :cry
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Don't do it, you will definitely turn people into Nazis if they see this symbol, I seen one about 8 years ago just briefly right now I'm sitting in an SS uniform typing this :cry
:rofl
:noid
:rock
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Truth be told (and this is the denial that surprises me from some of yas) there are still some people who are offended by that symbol. The German law might be an example of an extreme measure to some of you but that is at least one of the reasons HTC does not accommodate requests to display it in the game even as kill markings. Another may well be the potential for attraction of negative elements to the game. YOU may not be offended or unusually attracted to that symbol (as is the case with me) .... but it's HT's game and his call. No amount of attempted ridicule or marginalizing that basic point is going to sway the policy.
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Truth be told (and this is the denial that surprises me from some of yas) there are still some people who are offended by that symbol. The German law might be an example of an extreme measure to some of you but that is at least one of the reasons HTC does not accommodate requests to display it in the game even as kill markings. Another may well be the potential for attraction of negative elements to the game. YOU may not be offended or unusually attracted to that symbol (as is the case with me) .... but it's HT's game and his call. No amount of attempted ridicule or marginalizing that basic point is going to sway the policy.
Are saying...that if Aces High allowed swastikas that...it would attract...nazis? :rolleyes:
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I'm honestly curious now to which A/C has em... :headscratch:
my P51-B "You've had it" has them.
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Are saying...that if Aces High allowed swastikas that...it would attract...nazis? :rolleyes:
I would hate to have a Neo-Nazi squadron active in game. They would bomb all the Kosher Deli's. D:
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Are saying...that if Aces High allowed swastikas that...it would attract...nazis? :rolleyes:
I'm saying ... why would anyone but have such a boner over them? :D
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I'm saying ... why would anyone but have such a boner over them? :D
Well let's see...They are historic to the planes in this game. A german WW2 fighter without it on the tail...is like Richard Petty's car without #43.
I would hate to have a Neo-Nazi squadron active in game. They would bomb all the Kosher Deli's. D:
True...I hear there are no pickles to be found anywhere in Il2.
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Well let's see...They are historic to the planes in this game. A german WW2 fighter without it on the tail...is like Richard Petty's car without #43.
True...I hear there are no pickles to be found anywhere in Il2.
I never thought I'd see Richard Petty brought into this futile discussion. :D
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Well let's see...They are historic to the planes in this game. A german WW2 fighter without it on the tail...is like Richard Petty's car without #43.
True...I hear there are no pickles to be found anywhere in Il2.
Well, let's face it, as a kill marking it is showing the exact opposite of supporting nazism. Wouldn't that be worth PROMOTING in Germany? Lol
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my P51-B "You've had it" has them.
As it should. They are anything but pro-Nazi in that context. The German courts already ruled such things are fine, too.
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As it should. They are anything but pro-Nazi in that context. The German courts already ruled such things are fine, too.
My bad. I never realized your specialties were international and business law in Vraciu law school.
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Don't tell him or they'll get rid of 'em.
Yea cause they wont read this post.......your swastikas are safe with me. :noid :rolleyes:
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Yea cause they wont read this post.......your swastikas are safe with me. :noid :rolleyes:
Not mine. The ones in game. And they're kill markings. Big difference.
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Not mine. The ones in game. And they're kill markings. Big difference.
By at least a few hundred pixels.
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Well let's see...They are historic to the planes in this game. A german WW2 fighter without it on the tail...is like Richard Petty's car without #43.
I understand that you and your squadron are all about historical accuracy. However, I think in this case it's best we deviate a bit from history and leave the swastikas off our tails. I respect German pilots and enjoy flying their cartoon aircraft. But that is a far cry from respecting the Nazi regime and what it stood for.
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The soviets did far worse to many, many more of their own people, yet the red star is just fine.
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The soviets did far worse to many, many more of their own people, yet the red star is just fine.
As is the rising sun. Alas, I just recognize the obstacle in the way and live with it. ;)
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The soviets did far worse to many, many more of their own people, yet the red star is just fine.
Yes but Stalin only killed his own people and we don't care about that. :P
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I understand that you and your squadron are all about historical accuracy. Not always.
However, I think in this case it's best we deviate a bit from history and leave the swastikas off our tails. I wasn't suggesting to add them...merely offering one reason too in response to the question.
I respect German pilots and enjoy flying their cartoon aircraft. :aok
But that is a far cry from respecting the Nazi regime and what it stood for. Not sure what to say here. Hope you didn't read anything political into my post. For there is nothing there. Simply put...I don't see the Nazi Regime when I look at artwork, pictures, build models...play games...with World War II German aircraft. I just see the aircraft...if you know what I mean.
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Yes but Stalin only killed his own people and we don't care about that. :P
:lol
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I'm saying ... why would anyone but have such a boner over them? :D
Its not a big thing, overly PC BS just irks me, and I like to point and laugh at people when they try and act like net nannys :D
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The soviets did far worse to many, many more of their own people, yet the red star is just fine.
Imo Joe Stalin was the worst man who ever lived, they should have given over his body for the people to kick up and down the streets of Moscow after his death.
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Apologies if my comments were misinterpreted, I wasn't suggesting anything about you other then perhaps your love for historical accuracy should be set aside. My other comments were not related.
Personally it wouldn't be the end of the world if a swastika showed up on my K4 tomorrow, but I would rather it didn't.
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Its not a big thing, overly PC BS just irks me, and I like to point and laugh at people when they try and act like net nannys :D
However, the thread accomplished nuthin'. You see it reversing policy or sumpin'? :D
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my P51-B "You've had it" has them.
Wow. Also shows you how often I fly the Pony. I didn't know you made a B skin. :o That or I forgot... :bhead
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I say let them have it. The game has enough luftwannabess to kill. More the better to stomp on.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ban_of_Nazi_symbols_in_Germany
It is a German law ... but HTC has (and can potentially have more) German customers.
If your content resembles historical correct documents, pictures etc. the law would not be an issue. You may run a website with pictures or films, uniforms and so on showing swastikas, SS runes and so on and it's perfectly fine.
As all skins are required to be as close as possible tothe originalyou should get away with it. They represent historical correct items and the swastika is a part of that.
Display any kind of this stuff in RL is a fellony tho.....
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so many wild tangents in this thread.
Apparently, German laws might make it harder for German customers to pay for aces high. There is really no need to explain why ignoring that is not good business sense.
No verbotten symbols = more money. Is anyone still confused?
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Since the OP has already been asking about free skin templates in another thread, I doubt this will be an issue anytime soon...
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Is this still going? :bhead
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so many wild tangents in this thread.
Apparently, German laws might make it harder for German customers to pay for aces high. There is really no need to explain why ignoring that is not good business sense.
No verbotten symbols = more money. Is anyone still confused?
See the post above yours. You are confused. I am not. Nor is McShark.
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Since the OP has already been asking about free skin templates in another thread, I doubt this will be an issue anytime soon...
I did not say that. I asked if anyone had a blank. A workaround was found so it is moot. (I am helping a friend do it--or he is helping me. The credit will be his not mine.)
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I did not say that. I asked if anyone had a blank. A workaround was found so it is moot. (I am helping a friend do it--or he is helping me. The credit will be his not mine.)
Blank, free, potato, potaato....
So there will be 2 names?
XXX pee51 by Vraciu(and his friend)
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Blank, free, potato, potaato....
So there will be 2 names?
XXX pee51 by Vraciu(and his friend)
1/10, tbqh.
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so many wild tangents in this thread.
Apparently, German laws might make it harder for German customers to pay for aces high. There is really no need to explain why ignoring that is not good business sense.
No verbotten symbols = more money. Is anyone still confused?
I wasn't questioning the sensibility of HTC's policy on this matter. I was merely poking fun the amusingly irrational and tyrannical impulses of humans and their governments. Like I say, does no one care about the evil of Kaiser Wilhelm? :D Rape of Nanking happened under those big red meatballs on Japanese planes right? Ccome to think of it I seem to remember some bad things going down for the Indians while the Stars and Stripes flew proudly... :devil
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I wasn't questioning the sensibility of HTC's policy on this matter. I was merely poking fun the amusingly irrational and tyrannical impulses of humans and their governments. Like I say, does no one care about the evil of Kaiser Wilhelm? :D Rape of Nanking happened under those big red meatballs on Japanese planes right? Ccome to think of it I seem to remember some bad things going down for the Indians while the Stars and Stripes flew proudly... :devil
It's not a U.S. law. It's a German law. Even if it was a U.S. law, HT didn't write it. Despite what every forum lawyer in this thread wants to believe, it happens to be HTC policy. I suspect that if Vraciu (or his friend) submits a pony skin with swastika kill markings that it will be rejected, given this thread being a right public heads up.
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It's not a U.S. law. It's a German law. Even if it was a U.S. law, HT didn't write it. Despite what every forum lawyer in this thread wants to believe, it happens to be HTC policy. I suspect that if Vraciu (or his friend) submits a pony skin with swastika kill markings that it will be rejected, given this thread being a right public heads up.
I'm sorry, was the phrase "I'm not questioning the sensibility of HTC's policy on this matter", which I made in direct reference to the fact that if the German planes had historically accurate paint jobs Lusche couldn't play, was this unclear? I understand the whys, I am simply poking fun at/reveling in the absurdity of individuals or regimes fearing symbols on cartoon WWII planes.
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I'm sorry, was the phrase "I'm not questioning the sensibility of HTC's policy on this matter", which I made in direct reference to the fact that if the German planes had historically accurate paint jobs Lusche couldn't play, was this unclear? I understand the whys, I am simply poking fun at/reveling in the absurdity of individuals or regimes fearing symbols on cartoon WWII planes.
Political threads are generally a no-no in AH forumville. Threads about skins and what can and can't go on them, not as much. :D
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(http://redicecreations.com/ul_img/27013nazigold_pile.jpg)
Look out its a swastika!! :uhoh :old:
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(http://redicecreations.com/ul_img/27013nazigold_pile.jpg)
Look out its a swastika!! :uhoh :old:
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/3793204/nazi-melting-in-indiana-jones-o.gif)
NOOOOOO, WHAT HAVE YOU DOOONNEEE?! :cry
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Since the OP has already been asking about free skin templates in another thread, I doubt this will be an issue anytime soon...
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,357987.msg4772454.html#msg4772454
:aok
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That is a good start.
It is also the easiest part.
The hard parts are the panel lines, shadows where the panels meet, rivets, (don't forget some are flush and some are dimpled), instructional markings, exhaust stains, oil leaks, dirt, paint peel/wear, errant hydraulic oil, carbon from gun barrels and general wear and tear (among other things I forgot to mention).
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That is a good start.
It is also the easiest part.
The hard parts are the panel lines, shadows where the panels meet, rivets, (don't forget some are flush and some are dimpled), instructional markings, exhaust stains, oil leaks, dirt, paint peel/wear, errant hydraulic oil, carbon from gun barrels and general wear and tear (among other things I forgot to mention).
I definitely have my work cut out for me to be sure. I am not going to overly weather this one, though, as the photos of it show a pretty clean airplane.
I have a feeling progress from this point forward will be a slog.
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I definitely have my work bcut out for me to be sure. I am not going to overly weather this one, though, as the photos of it show a pretty clean airplane.
I have a feeling progress from this point forward will be a slog.
Your feelings are correct, lol
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Your feelings are correct, lol
:rofl
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I have a feeling progress from this point forward will be a slog.
I don't know what your schedule is, but the rule of thumb for me is this: about 30 days for a new airframe, about a week per skin after that. So yeah, the setup is 300% harder.
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I don't know what your schedule is, but the rule of thumb for me is this: about 30 days for a new airframe, about a week per skin after that. So yeah, the setup is 300% harder.
Noschedule as I had...have...no idea what to expect. A month seems a bit optimistic in my case. LOL
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As is the rising sun. Alas, I just recognize the obstacle in the way and live with it. ;)
The Rising Sun emblem is just Japan's naval ensign so most of the Japanese atrocities weren't committed under it as they were committed by the Army, not the Navy. It still is also still in use by Japan. The Imperial Japanese government didn't have a specific symbol like the Nazi Party did. And the swastika is the symbol of the Nazi Party.
The Soviets, well, yeah, that is hypocritical, but they were on our side so there it is. Maybe the hammer and sickle is more akin to the swastika than the red star. Dunno.