Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: DoNKeY on November 24, 2007, 06:58:33 PM
-
Hey guys, starting to get into the uber k-4 a little more now. Just looking for some of those helpful tips/strategies that would otherwise a little while to work out. What are some convergences you recommend (and yes, obviously I won稚 be shooting the tater at d600, I値l be getting close, very close)? What fuel load outs for what situations/distances? What about what exact speed does it compress beyond control (and while I知 at it, what is the elevator trim up/down)? Turns better to the left right? The best way to fight in it is to energy fight unless you can obviously win a knife fight, etc, etc right? Any other tips I should know besides the tater takes time, long WEP, and great climb haha?
Thanks guys.
donkey
-
a few K4 clips:
http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/dudtaters.ahf
http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/reversek4.ahf
as usualy i dont have words, but here are some fun ways to surprise your enemy when youre flying the K4.
imo, the K4 is a mix of P51D and LA7, and far better than either of those planes on their own.
S!
-
Thanks bat, enjoyed the films, and learned a little!
donkey
-
Been flying the K-4 exclusively for the past 3 days-ish. All I can say is WOW! It's like a whole new form of flying when I compare it to the pony I have been flying! I feel so confident going into each fight, and actually go looking for 2v1's now haha. I guess trying to dogfight in the pony has helped a lot, because it's so much easier now. Now I just need to learn the ballistics of the tater and the timing, because I'm setting up the shots, and they're there, just the wrong timing. Oh, and the views will take a little getting used, but they're not to bad lol.
Any other tips guys?
donkey
-
Im no 109 experten, but i too love flying the 109 K-4. She's a total monster, which if it wasnt for the difficult 30mm cannon, it prob should be perked. Thankfully, most people find it incredibly hard to hit anything with the tatergun and give up on it far too quickly.
What are some convergences you recommend (and yes, obviously I won稚 be shooting the tater at d600, I値l be getting close, very close)?
Set convergence in close. 250 is a good point, IMO. Fire when icon changes to D200 or the aircraft fills your screen. Watch out for collisions tho. You only got 60 spuds, so fire em one (two max) at a time - eg one audible 'chunk' sound. I find that almost all kills will be snapshots too at close distance.
What fuel load outs for what situations/distances?
YMMV, but i take either 100% and DT, or 75% and DT depending on how target rich the anticipated environment will be. Drop the DT as soon as you get into a scrape or earlier. IIRC, 100% will keep you aloft for about 35 mins? DT extends that again. Keep an eye on the E6B, and you cant go wrong.
What about what exact speed does it compress beyond control (and while I知 at it, what is the elevator trim up/down)?
Actually its not compressing. It just suffers from aweful control-surface authority at higher speeds. A 109 above 350 is not flying it to its strengths. Dont know the figures off the top of my head, but its a progressive thing - eg you progressively loose authority (elev, aileron etc).
Turns better to the left right?
IIRC, to the left.
The best way to fight in it is to energy fight unless you can obviously win a knife fight, etc, etc right?
Yup. But due to its wicked acceleration and high top speed - dont be afraid to mix it up for a bit - this is where you can generate good snapshot opportunities. Get in there and get turning and go hunting for those snapshots, if you start loosing too much angles, convert to an E type approach. Even the K4 turns fairly well.
Alternatively, keep the fight going upwards and you will soon see most aircraft in the LW set gasping for breath - Spit 16s, and Ki84s will keep you honest tho.
Any other tips I should know besides the tater takes time, long WEP, and great climb haha?
1. Map the elevator trim somewhere handy. You'll need this to save yourself from embarassing lawn-dart impersonations when you get your ship out of control.
2. Gotta learn to use full power judiciously. Keep the 109 in her sweet-spot speed range at all times: ~230-300. Get very used to yanking back that throttle!! Its far far too easy to overspeed and get out of control and blow E.
3. The tater-gun needs almost twice the lead of a 50cal equipt aircraft. Fire (its actually more of a 'lob') taters by tappin the fire button. Fire ONLY the tatergun - forget the 12.7mm even exist and ask you ground crew to remove em. Dont use the MGs to 'feel' out a shot. If you're hitting with MGs, you'll miss with the taters. Firing only taters also means that if you see a hit sprite, it has to be a 30mm hit, and normally thats game over. Single sprite, means you free for the next target/victim :D
They're my big-3 tips for the 109K.
Im sure someone else who is a more regular 109'er than me will chip in soon.
-
Cool, thank you very much for those tips!
donkey
-
Ahhhhh the 109k4 - Sort of like a biker chic and a refined beautiful woman put together.
The k4 does not turn very good compared to other "turny" planes. The plane is a wild beast at heart. It must be tamed. But once you come to an understanding it will out turn almost every plane in this game excepting the zeek.
First - the k4 is a stall fighter. That is where it excels. Forget the B&Z. Thats for wussies. If you want to make the other guy go " how the hell did he do that" then you must learn stall fighting. Stall fighting drivers are the "samari warriors" of this game.
The first thing to learn is throttle control. This is the first secret. The throttle must be constantly worked. It is rare that I hold the same throttle setting for more than 3 seconds while actively engaged with a bandit. The reason is simple - TORK.
To turn left pop wep and full left rudder.
To turn right throttle off full right rudder.
While flying strait jam the throttle on and foff and you can rock your plane back and forth with no other input. The tork on this plane is incredible and can be used to great advantage.
For example while in a flat scissor you will be at say 75 or even 50% throttle. To break left you: Jam the throttle...and I mean slaaammmm it forward and at the same time hit wep.
Now u want to break right: Slammm it off and take wep off at same time.
You will of course use full rudder at the same time with each turn.
While in the verticle on a bandits six who is desperatly trying to hammer you: follow him up with wep. As he stall turns at top you will slam throttle off pop 1 notch of flaps, full right rudder and follow him around into the dive. Keep throttle off. As he flattens out you will pull 3 notches of flaps and slam the throttle on with wep. You will repeat this over and over until u get close enough for a shot.
This brings us to the next secret - Flaps
You must learn to use flaps from all 4 nothces to none. For example once you have caught that pesky spit on the deck he will of course go into a flat turn hoping to out turn you. As the break turns starts and he begins to tighten it you will back off the throttle to reduce speed below 200 and pop all 4 notches of flaps as fast as you can. Then go to full throttle with wep on. Tred lightly on top rudder to keep ur nose from dropping. The k4 has so much power it can simply muscle its way in a turn with all the flaps out and some rudder without loosing too much speed. Attempt to make the turn slightly nose high. As you turn u can gain a few deg of angles if you can stay just above him in the turn. As this continues he will attempt to keep his speed up by dropping his nose in the turn which is exactly what you want. The ground will stop him eventually and he will have to straiten his turn. It is at this point where you will close for the shot.
Now if he is smart he will try to go verticle with is last bit of E. If you see his nose come up you will swing to the "left" of his plane ( we are in a left turn here) go flat real in 2 notches and you will then go strait up. Once verticle you will completly roll over and pop out all the flaps again. Come strait down and gun his brains out.
In any fight attempt to make the bandit "fly circles around you". This makes him think he is winning when in fact he is being set up for a snap shot. Your shot will come at the top....always!!! at the top. 30mils drop like rocks and it is near impossible to make any kind of shot while pulling G's. At the top when he make the turn you will slam throttle off and roll right poping flaps. It is hear that you can take an unloaded (0 g's) shot and let him fly into the rounds. This kind of shot cost you nothing because if you miss you are already turning down and simply follow him. Do not attempt to shoot while following him down. Just wait until he zooms again. If you do this correctly you get unlimited shots at him every time he turns at the top.
Do not criple your self by pulling hard to make an impossible g loaded shot. This will give him angles and if it is a turny plane he will be on your six in one turn.
About the climb rate: K4 has max climb at 0 to 5000. With 5k being its max climb. However most other planes will hold E longer than you can. Do not make the mistake of thinking you can "out climb" every plane because you cant. You can however as I say it "out E them" once you get them slow. That is the goal.
ALWAYS - I repeat - ALWAYS use the verticle to make any turn. A verticle turn will always gain angles over a flat turn. Once you get them slow take that baby strait up and hold it strait up untill it falls out of the sky. There is NO PLANE in this game that can hang with the k4 in the 90 deg verticle at less than 200mph. At first you will think you are not going to make it going vert and turn too soon. You must learn how to maintain control and squeeze every single ounce of energy out of the verticle climb. After some practice you will be just amazed at how you can go strait up. In fact you can get atleast 3k off the deck in a strait vert climb if you have about 150 to 180 mph to start with.
The k4 can gain E at will. Do not be afraid on loosing E. If you feel tht you are loosing put the nose down, full wep. All you need is 200 mph and you can go up atleast 3k.
Gunnery - Set the 30 mils at 200. Set the mg's at 400. Use the mg's to ping the hell out of them before u get into tater range. Pinging them will make them feel vulneralbe and they will often panic and make a turn which is just what you want. You will also get pilot wounds and engine hits.
TAKE THE SHOT. Even if you are 400 out. If you see them turn and you get a nice profile at 400 or even 600 out just drop ur nose and shoot. Lead A LOT. Like about 1.5 inches on your monitor from the target to your gun sight. You will be amazed at how many times you actually hit them like this.
Shoot 2 or 3 tators at a time. NO MORE. It only takes 1 tator to make a kill.
Close to almost ramming distance before u fire if possible. If its a tail chase and you have them dont waste rounds on a stick stirrer or a jerky scissor. They are panicking and doing anything to get away. Simply cut your throttle enough to prevent over shoot and close....close...close. When you are about to ram FIRE. They will blow up and you just fly right through the fire ball.
We have covered throttle, flaps, tork, the circle, and some gunnery. This has been only a basic introduction.
Unfortunatly, I have kept a few of the "real secrets" to myself. HEHEHE. These are closely kept and privy to a select few of "jedi apprentices". I will pass them on eventually.
Good luck.
Agent360
-
Thanks agent, I was wondering when you would show up.:aok
donkey
PS: Really appreciate the time you spent on that write up, hope I can eventually become half as good as you in the k-4.
Forgot a few more questions.
1) Anybody know the corner velocity for the K-4?
2) Does anybody know of/experience any negative reactions while using combat trim during flight/fights?
3) What's your guys' preferred skins?:D
thanks
-
Originally posted by DoNKeY
3) What's your guys' preferred skins?:D
thanks
I know that certain K4 pilots LOVE his skin...
(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z39/clerick44/agent2.jpg)
:noid
-
I hate Ravens k4 skins..... I'm planning to make a skin for k4 drivers something worth flyin' with anyways lol.:D
-
Sounds good because I don't much like the current skins either haha. Any chance of something with yellow?:aok
donkey
-
Originally posted by DoNKeY
Hey guys, starting to get into the uber k-4 a little more now. Just looking for some of those helpful tips/strategies that would otherwise a little while to work out. What are some convergences you recommend (and yes, obviously I won稚 be shooting the tater at d600, I値l be getting close, very close)? What fuel load outs for what situations/distances? What about what exact speed does it compress beyond control (and while I知 at it, what is the elevator trim up/down)? Turns better to the left right? The best way to fight in it is to energy fight unless you can obviously win a knife fight, etc, etc right? Any other tips I should know besides the tater takes time, long WEP, and great climb haha?
Thanks guys.
donkey
I dont fly the straight K4, I fly the ghey one... or so I 've been told anyhow.
balsy
-
Originally posted by DoNKeY
2) Does anybody know of/experience any negative reactions while using combat trim during flight/fights?
Disable combat trim before entering any dive in which you think you will break 400mph. Failing to do so will result in the elevators trimming full down as speed increases, which will make it seem as if the plane is experiencing compression. However, this is not the case. The elevators just become a little heavy at high speed, and this is exacerbated by the combat trim which trims down elevator at high speed to keep the plane from pulling itself out of the dive. In the worst case you can use the K key (up elevator trim) to haul the plane out of a high speed dive. If you work the trim right, you can dive to well over 450mph no problem in the 109.
-
Originally posted by TUXC
Disable combat trim before entering any dive in which you think you will break 400mph. Failing to do so will result in the elevators trimming full down as speed increases, which will make it seem as if the plane is experiencing compression. However, this is not the case. The elevators just become a little heavy at high speed, and this is exacerbated by the combat trim which trims down elevator at high speed to keep the plane from pulling itself out of the dive. In the worst case you can use the K key (up elevator trim) to haul the plane out of a high speed dive. If you work the trim right, you can dive to well over 450mph no problem in the 109.
Thanks for that bit of information!
donkey
-
Anybody else have anything they want to add?
donkey
-
Originally posted by DoNKeY
Anybody else have anything they want to add?
donkey
Just fly it.. You'll learn the Does and Dont's of er.. Won't be long either haha....:D
-
Originally posted by clerick
I know that certain K4 pilots LOVE his skin...
(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z39/clerick44/agent2.jpg)
:noid
It should be a crime to fly a 38 without one of festers skins... :aok
-
Originally posted by DoNKeY
Anybody else have anything they want to add?
donkey
Look me up in the Arena's i'm happy to give you some pointers in DA.
-
Just to add to what others have said regarding trim, when you get over 450 mph all of the control surfaces get heavy, including ailerons.
If you can, map a button on your stick or throttle to toggle combat trim on and off. This will aid you in using the trim controls as a control boost.
You can dive in excess of 525 mph and maintain decent control. After toggling off combat trim you can pull back on the stick and give it elevator trim at the same time to pull out of your dive. If your target is trying to break turn you can use aileron trim to roll your lift vector on them quicker and still be able to track them enough for a snap shot.
You can toggle combat trim on and off to "zero" your trim inputs to keep from over controlling when you do this.
One other thing. The view from inside the cockpit really sucks. Even with a TrackIR unit it's difficult and without one you will have an even harder time keeping track of your opponent. Many of the better pilots know how to use this poor visibility against the K4 pilot and it makes it especially hard to survive in a furball after you get slow.
Originally posted by DoNKeY
Anybody else have anything they want to add?
donkey
-
how do i shoot when i am in a tank
-
Originally posted by Dutchie
Look me up in the Arena's i'm happy to give you some pointers in DA.
Sounds good, thanks. And thank you to everyone else who as given input.
donkey
-
Wow nice stuff Spatula!
As for the skins, im working on 4 different K4 skins, one comes with yellow.
-
Originally posted by Mus51
Wow nice stuff Spatula!
As for the skins, im working on 4 different K4 skins, one comes with yellow.
:D :D :D :aok :aok
-
Originally posted by Mus51
Wow nice stuff Spatula!
As for the skins, im working on 4 different K4 skins, one comes with yellow.
you've been doing alot of skins lately mus!
How have ya been bud? I miss winging up with ya mate, i'll be returning to AH on the 13th so don't worry :D
-
Listen to Agent360. He's the best K4 pilot I've ever faced.
-
What usually helps me in a stall fight especially in pony's and 109's is when ur on top of an loop u cut the throttle for a sec untill ur like 45 degrees inverted downward.
That usually really shortens my turns. Also i use to go to the TA and fill the thing up to 100% and go fly some stalls or edge of stall speeds in the plane. then try making a slight turn with it by using rudder/throttle and aileron in the opposite direction of where the propblades are spinning. After a while u will start mastering it and u can do stall turns and hammerheads in it.
When u know this you have less things to worry about in a tnb fight.
-
agent gonna be my new teacher for when I return. :D
-
Anyone have anything else to add? I would also like to know the corner velocities for 25% and 50% fuel without flaps, and then with a notch or two of flaps if anyone knows this.
Oh, and I've spend a lot of my time in the DA lately, and will continue to, so if anyone wants some friendly matches where they want to learn a new plane, or just get better with me, just let me know, I'm always down, unless I'm pressed for time. Not saying it will be a hard match for you guys, but I'll give it my best.:aok
donkey
PS: Those that fly it a lot, how bad to you find the induced drag after ditching a DT to be? Would I be better off taking less fuel and a DT so I'm combat ready, or just more internal and not worry about the added drag from the DT harness or whatever?
-
I take 100 fuel in it every time up. Very, very rarely take a DT with that.
-
Originally posted by killnu
I take 100 fuel in it every time up. Very, very rarely take a DT with that.
Same here.
-
Being able to kill at long range with the twin 13mm is more important than wasting your 30mms trying long range shots. I used to believe the 13mm were ineffective until i realised that a lot of the time (because i shot both weapons at once) i was actually missin a lot with the 30mm and the 13mm was doing the damage. I've been practising my shooting quite a lot thanks to a certain clog wearer! Lol
-
I agree, don't discount the 13mm.
They're great for keeping your prey honest, forcing them to bleed speed to avoid while you run them down. They're good for getting the odd oil/radiator/pilot wound too.
Use them seperately though, firing both at the same time will lead you to miss with the 30mm.
Also, bear in mind that it is very possible to land hit hits with the 30mm cannon up to 800 yards.
I don't recommend this in a turn but if you get something trying to out-pace you thinking they're safe at 800 yards infront of K4.... you can do some damage.
Use the German Revi sight and practice your lead. A target at 800 that is not evading will require you aim with the 1st notch outside of the gunsight circle.
That is with convergence set at 200 yards.
As for the skins, I usually use Wotan's JG 53 skin.
That is the best, in my opinion.
I'm working on a skin for a II./JG 3 K4 at the moment.
-
Another tip is using the arrow keys in the cockpit to adjust ur head view sideways for an enemy turning left. Gives u more room to aim as the sight in the 109 is set to one side and tracking a plane turning left for a big 30mm shot is harder with the sight in the middle.
-
Yep, thanks guys for the tips so far. Still, does anybody know the relative corner velocities??
donkey
-
PM Badboy in the AHTC - he should have that data for you.
-
am i wrong or that the K-4 is the worst and heavest 109?
-
Originally posted by DEAR98
am i wrong or that the K-4 is the worst and heavest 109?
You are right in that the k-4 is the heaviest but dead wrong in that it is the worst. K-4 is uber in the right hands.
-
...what He said. ^^^
-
Originally posted by DEAR98
am i wrong or that the K-4 is the worst and heavest 109?
DEAR98, there is no one "uber" plane. Each plane has its strengths and weaknesses, even among the different variants of a plane group. That is what makes this game so challenging. One 109 climbs better, but this other one is faster, but then again this other one turns better, but this other one has a better gun.
To be one of the better players in this game you must learn what each plane can and can't do, and use that knowledge to your advantage while in a fight. On top of that you have to learn how to recognize what kind of skill the enemy pilot might have because that will also factor in on how you fight a fight.
Don't assume just because a plane is heavyer that it isn't good, some people will use that weight against you by out zooming you in a climb, turn around as you stall and throw one, just ONE of those 30mm at you and send you back to the tower.
-
Even though the K4 is the worst turner, you can utilize its uber climb rate to keep any other 109 from getting a lead shot even in a turn fite that devolves into a flat turning circle.
Just point that nose up, hit the magic button, and soon you will be above your prey and "out turning" them. The hard part is managing the k4 in slowflight nose high with all that power. Once you master that, Id rather be in a k4 than any other 109.
A well flown 109k will pwn a ki84.
Balsy
-
ah:aok
-
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
a few K4 clips:
http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/dudtaters.ahf
http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/reversek4.ahf
as usualy i dont have words, but here are some fun ways to surprise your enemy when youre flying the K4.
imo, the K4 is a mix of P51D and LA7, and far better than either of those planes on their own.
S!
That was great flying Bat! Loved the part that ur typing on 200, tell the guy a Niki is trying to kill u, then u whack him with a great move! :aok :lol