General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Animl-AW on January 25, 2024, 11:49:16 PM
Title: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Animl-AW on January 25, 2024, 11:49:16 PM
Just sayin
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Animl-AW on January 25, 2024, 11:52:31 PM
Whoops wrong place
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Animl-AW on January 26, 2024, 08:38:11 AM
ANYWAY Saw first 2 episodes, waited to midnight to see it, pretty damn good movie so far. Actually get into the workings of the B-17 and crews.
Roger Eibert, who put the movie down, is a drip. Planes aren’t shinny planes nor sky, so far. Being “no name actors” (I don’t know them) its easier to get into the immersion of the characters instead of wooing a glamor super star. CGI isn’t over-done with exaggerated fx. I always took Eibert as bought. Absolutely worth watching.
Script is good, not too much romance
At least on FireTV stick, AppleTv has a 3 month trial. Which would cover the series.
The pros we have running the scenario will have a good time pulling this off.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: RELIC on January 26, 2024, 12:16:09 PM
Who is Roger Eibert? Roger Ebert has been dead for over ten years.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Eagler on January 26, 2024, 12:20:47 PM
Are all the episodes listed and available to view?
Eagler
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: CptTrips on January 26, 2024, 12:49:07 PM
yes. they were 110s. I had to go back and pause the frame. :salute
Neat thanks.
I also thought in the first air battle they called 109s but the noses looked liked 190s. They went by super fast so I would have to take another peek.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Banshee7 on January 26, 2024, 05:04:01 PM
Just watched the first episode. Will watch the second one after my gig tonight. I’m not going to search for things to criticize just yet. Gonna watch it first time through at face value.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: RELIC on January 26, 2024, 05:11:17 PM
Think I will wait until the entire season is out then binge.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Lazerr on January 26, 2024, 05:20:06 PM
Wat is moa?
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Trav02 on January 26, 2024, 05:45:10 PM
Minute of Angle? :D
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Lazerr on January 26, 2024, 06:09:45 PM
Nevermind I read the post under this one and drew the conclusion. Lol
I was blonde as a kid.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: GasTeddy on January 27, 2024, 02:18:48 AM
I also thought in the first air battle they called 190s but the noses looked liked 109s. They went by super fast so I would have to take another peek.
Ok confirmed this one too. Although as someone pointed out in the reddit sub that this was common for gunners to misidentify planes so mistake perhaps.
Pretty good discussion on Reddit for the first two episodes. Most people like it seemingly. CGI and historical missteps are the biggest complaints. Good read if you’re on reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/MastersoftheAir/s/hjiN38b64u (https://www.reddit.com/r/MastersoftheAir/s/hjiN38b64u)
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Spikes on January 27, 2024, 08:40:15 AM
Ok confirmed this one too. Although as someone pointed out in the reddit sub that this was common for gunners to misidentify planes so mistake perhaps.
Pretty good discussion on Reddit for the first two episodes. Most people like it seemingly. CGI and historical missteps are the biggest complaints. Good read if you’re on reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/MastersoftheAir/s/hjiN38b64u (https://www.reddit.com/r/MastersoftheAir/s/hjiN38b64u)
They were all 109s but near the end of the battle they called '190s coming back'. I too noticed the Ju 88/110 thing but I agree it was likely done on purpose.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: fudgums on January 27, 2024, 09:07:54 AM
There seems to be something off or just different from that narration and the "setting the stage" point of view. Don't know if I am right or wrong on that feel.
It might be intentional too, to set the viewer with the unknown as well instead of the build up.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Animl-AW on January 27, 2024, 10:30:25 AM
Me thinks, the WWIII flight sim crowd is going to put it under the microscope, and in some cases X-Ray machine. Some will be correct and some have their own history errors.
First impression for me, it doesn’t suck. Which is where I want to be.
The top reason I don’t watch modern action movies is cgi. The best cgi can be detectable. So I try to avoid being hypercritical. All these WWII AC documentaries use it. The more things move, the more detectable. Short scenes giving the eye less time to focus on detail. Planes in the sky ate probably the hardest to do undetected. I make a conscience effort to step back from that part. In this situation its just mandatory to use cgi, and it will never be perfect,
As far as scripting, if I can tell in advance what the flow is, kinda get turned off. IMO, 1-2 episodes from a 9 episode movie should be hard to predict. If I can, scripting failed.
Since I’ve dipped my toes in those productions, like with Batman filmed in Chicago, and having a few life long friend actors,…and my feet in WWII sims and history, I won’t enjoy it if I don’t step back and just try to look at the big picture.
And its my opinion that it doesn’t suck….so far.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Dadtallica on January 27, 2024, 02:32:36 PM
They were all 109s but near the end of the battle they called '190s coming back'. I too noticed the Ju 88/110 thing but I agree it was likely done on purpose.
Could also be an editing error. Maybe they said 110s in another take but it wasn’t used. Anyway that’s twice they said wrong lol. I’m keeping an open mind for the next seven.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: svaalbar on January 27, 2024, 04:53:56 PM
How did they screw up radial engines vs inline? Lol
I'll give appleTV a trial and give it a watch. Gotta find my apple info now haha
I didn’t read the book but am told it discusses frequently mistakenly identifying aircraft but I don’t think it was intentional by the show. They are 0-2 lol.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Spikes on January 27, 2024, 06:33:00 PM
Nothing really other than last Hollywood missteps and a bit of a vibe from the show so far. I’m very happy to be wrong.
I spent too many years managing Blockbuster and other video stores, I’m a snob when it comes to filmed things in my old age. Sadly I don’t enjoy movies like I used too if I’m being honest.
I’m going to watch it whether I like it or not lol
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Dadtallica on January 27, 2024, 06:59:39 PM
Don’t worry it’s ok if we nitpick the proper planes and accuracy. :old:
I was just reading a thread elsewhere that some people are upset that the makeup and nails worn by the ladies in the opening scene was not period correct.
Thats going deep!
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: xanax on January 27, 2024, 07:49:40 PM
Don’t worry it’s ok if we nitpick the proper planes and accuracy. :old:
I was just reading a thread elsewhere that some people are upset that the makeup and nails worn by the ladies in the opening scene was not period correct.
Thats going deep!
Thanks burying my next post! I was going to bring up the glaring faux pas' I noticed the makeup department made in this production. Those nails....Appalling!
Other than that, I'm enjoying it enough to overlook stuff. I'll ride it out for sure.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: GasTeddy on January 28, 2024, 04:11:59 AM
Ju88C-5, R-series and also G-1 version of heavy fighters (Zerstörer) were powered by BMW 801 radial engines. The C-5 and R-1 had 1,147 kW (1,539 hp) BMW 801L engines and the R-2 and G-1 had 1,250 kW (1,677 hp) BMW 801 G-2 engines. They were mostly used as a night fighters. From bomber versions, high speed S-0 and S-1 were also equipped with BMW 801G-2s while S-2 was using BMW 801J.
I presume mixing radials and inlines is more referring 109/190. Normally Luftwaffe tried to send 109s and 190Ds to fight escort fighters while more heavily armed 190As hit bombers.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: FLOOB on January 28, 2024, 05:20:49 AM
Watched the first two episodes. Not up to the standard of band of brothers or the pacific in my opinion. The b17 pulling out of a high speed near vertical dive to extinguish an engine fire -dumb bs. Throwing a bottle at a duraluminum b17 and the bottle breaks not the b17 -BS. Also drunkenly clamoring around on a military aircraft and not getting beaten or shot by the MPs- BS. And I don’t believe the phrase “I’m just sayin..” was in use in 1943. Disappointing but still the best thing on tv at the moment.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: FLOOB on January 28, 2024, 06:04:37 AM
Ju88C-5, R-series and also G-1 version of heavy fighters (Zerstörer) were powered by BMW 801 radial engines. The C-5 and R-1 had 1,147 kW (1,539 hp) BMW 801L engines and the R-2 and G-1 had 1,250 kW (1,677 hp) BMW 801 G-2 engines. They were mostly used as a night fighters. From bomber versions, high speed S-0 and S-1 were also equipped with BMW 801G-2s while S-2 was using BMW 801J.
I presume mixing radials and inlines is more referring 109/190. Normally Luftwaffe tried to send 109s and 190Ds to fight escort fighters while more heavily armed 190As hit bombers.
I thought the depiction of crews misidentifying enemy craft was a nice touch. The writers did some homework I can tell by the minutiae and details. They sure like to show off the flare guns.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Animl-AW on January 28, 2024, 08:32:49 AM
Kinda weird I wonder if anyone is thinking why we have icons in the game and what it would be like without them.
My videos might be an example. Without icons and closeups some would have no idea exactly what kind of plane most are. In RL I’m going to assume real pots constantly made the wrong calls on models. Some are looking at it in a way real pots actually never saw it. They certainly didn’t pull instant replays on videos to id a plane. Since none of us were there we’re just guessing.
I can find something wrong with every movie I watch. If its put under a microscope it prolly won’t be enjoyed as much. Why I don’t watch movies. I can nit pick them into the abyss.
Coming from someone who watched one episode of Band of Brothers, none of the other.
I’m watching it for entertainment and the view. <shrug>
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Brooke on February 01, 2024, 01:41:03 AM
I think it's pretty good and that they are doing a good job.
It won't be perfect. I'm decently impressed so far. Many fewer Hollywoodisms than I was expecting.
Also, I showed episode 1 to my 13-year-old daughters who liked it. That surprised and pleased me.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Eagler on February 01, 2024, 06:14:16 AM
I think it's pretty good ... Also, I showed episode 1 to my 13-year-old daughters who liked it. That surprised and pleased me.
Not sure an accurate portrayal of the behavior of and the horrors that the American daylight bomber crews experienced on a daily basis would be appreciated or appropriate for viewing of children..but it's hollywood..
Though I will watch it as it is ww2 airwar over Europe and it has zero competition on the television (it would have to be much worse) I hope it gets better..
Eagler
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Dadtallica on February 01, 2024, 08:24:08 AM
Warning Episode 3 spoiler: Someone’s face does not fare too well. Here are some pictures of the prosthetics and a production shot.
Not sure an accurate portrayal of the behavior of and the horrors that the American daylight bomber crews experienced on a daily basis would be appreciated or appropriate for viewing of children..but it's hollywood..
It's true for all information -- as a parent, you are always making judgements of what is suitable for your kids at a particular age.
I watch Masters of the Air, and judge episode by episode what my kids could watch. Episodes 1 and 2, I judge OK. I might not for other episodes. We'll see. In the war genre, there is a range from stuff like Baa Baa Blacksheep (relatively tame) to Black Hawk Down, Full Metal Jacket, etc. (not tame). Along that spectrum, people make judgements.
I want them to learn history and reality. Here, I like them to see courage, responsibility, and competence of young people only a handful of years older than themselves. What is involved in war (up to what I judge is age-appropriate, of course). And some of the things that have to be considered in war.
These days, public schools (as I know from much direct experience) are battle zones for indoctrinating kids into particular ideologies. If there is something that will teach my kids aspects of history that some teachers -- because of agenda -- would not cover; and I think it is OK for them to see it; and I think they might really watch it (as opposed to cursorily watch and then forget all about it because they don't care) -- I take that opportunity.
Episodes 1 and 2 of Masters of the Air would have been OK for me at 13 also. I was a big WWII aviation enthusiast from an early age. I read every WWII air-combat book I could get my hands on. I enjoyed it, and it gave me an appreciation of that history and what people went through.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Eagler on February 01, 2024, 02:43:17 PM
I agree Brooke that it is viewable for 13 year olds..
Guess I am saying it would be more realistic for me if it wasn't
:cheers:
Eagler
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Brooke on February 01, 2024, 03:03:38 PM
I agree Brooke that it is viewable for 13 year olds..
Guess I am saying it would be more realistic for me if it wasn't
:cheers:
Eagler
There might come some episodes that are more gritty. But I think they are doing a pretty good job of portraying battle. What would you change in the interior battle scenes?
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Devil 505 on February 01, 2024, 03:35:06 PM
I thought the depiction of crews misidentifying enemy craft was a nice touch. The writers did some homework I can tell by the minutiae and details. They sure like to show off the flare guns.
I was saying to Perd and Spike on our Discord that I'd love it if there was some inside joke with the production where the German aircraft shown are always different than what the spoken line ID's them as being.
I think the show is 0-2 on correctly ID'ing German planes, through 2 episodes.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Animl-AW on February 01, 2024, 04:57:04 PM
There were issues with Band of Bros, Private Ryan, and about every movie I’ve seen. I think some talked themselves into thinking its going to suck, find a scratch of evidence they say “told ya it would suck”, pretty much ruining it for themselves before they finish it, and others too, I have a feeling will dip into conspiracies before its over.
I didn’t notice these things because my microscope is broken.
Kinda ruins scenario immersion too. <runs>
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Animl-AW on February 01, 2024, 05:29:20 PM
I’m not sure this is cgi. I think, like some documentaries, its more of a modern game software
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Eagler on February 02, 2024, 01:17:20 PM
I’m hoping the next episodes exceeded the prior, building to a climax. Some movies spend the first parts getting a connection going with the characters, before killing them off. Just a spectator like the rest.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Dadtallica on February 02, 2024, 02:03:21 PM
#3 was pretty slow and it’s mostly in the air too. I too share the disappointment with the air battles.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Animl-AW on February 02, 2024, 03:45:44 PM
Everyone will have s different take, depending on how you squint your ryes. I though 3 was just fine. A lot of action. I think i have the flow now. Start slow and hit with flash shockers. Slow start, fast action, soft landing.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Bruv119 on February 03, 2024, 02:02:18 AM
so many british actors doing cringe American accents. I've only watched the first episode but I liked how they focused alot of it on being inside the aircraft, how they operating.
had to laugh when he said your a navigator your meant to be able to find England :ahand
bring on those escort fighters, think I saw Dr who in one of them to come sequences. Maybe he can get some adaptations for his red tail mustang.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: popeye on February 03, 2024, 07:32:03 AM
Pretty clear that the Allied gunners are using aim bots. :D
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Eagler on February 03, 2024, 07:50:41 AM
What was that rocket that came in like a Sam in the 3rd episode?
I think the German pilot view in these cgi air battles might help things...couldn't hurt imo
How short are the episodes? Not an hour ..even with recap and intro...
The drop on the ball bearing plant looked too good to be true as historians have stated accuracy did not get much better than 50% by the end of the war...that drop looked like nothing missed...
Eagler
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Dadtallica on February 03, 2024, 09:02:39 AM
#3 was only 39:35 of actual show.
10 years, $250 million = 40 minutes a show.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Animl-AW on February 03, 2024, 09:43:48 AM
What was that rocket that came in like a Sam in the 3rd episode?
I think the German pilot view in these cgi air battles might help things...couldn't hurt imo
How short are the episodes? Not an hour ..even with recap and intro...
The drop on the ball bearing plant looked too good to be true as historians have stated accuracy did not get much better than 50% by the end of the war...that drop looked like nothing missed...
Eagler
I have a similar vid of a drop from the real one. Looked just like it. Plus they carpet bombed. Ver possible. I think too much focus is put on small beans. I din’t notice half the stuff some are.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Eagler on February 03, 2024, 10:13:13 AM
I have a similar vid of a drop from the real one. Looked just like it. Plus they carpet bombed. Ver possible. I think too much focus is put on small beans. I din’t notice half the stuff some are.
Read that bombing in 1943 hit less than 20% and only got up to 50% at best by the end of the war..
It was why an armada of planes were required to actually damage anything to the point of making the sacrifice worth it..
Eagler
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Brooke on February 03, 2024, 02:33:56 PM
Depends on size of the target. Bombing accuracy is often quoted at 20% of bombs falling within 1000 ft of target point. If the target is 1000 ft x 1000 ft, that's about 20% of bombs falling in there.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Brooke on February 03, 2024, 02:38:13 PM
I though episode 3 was pretty good.
Watching the combat scenes reminds me very much of flying in a scenario. How the attacks go. Sky full of burning exploding bombers, and fighters here and there trailing smoke or going down. Sky full of tracers. How the bombing goes. How it all looks in the thick of the scenario fight.
Even things like occasionally flying a very long mission only to have to deadstick the bomber in the last couple miles as your last engines give out due to oil or fuel leaks. Or nursing a damaged bomber back to base, with various control surfaces shot out and some engines gone.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Brooke on February 03, 2024, 02:44:16 PM
I like the action scenes and think they're doing a great job depicting the bomber action.
Bomber action is similar one mission to another, though. I think general audience will like flow of the show better when there is the variation of other elements included, such as fighter action and ground elements (evasion, capture, prison camp).
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Banshee7 on February 03, 2024, 04:51:10 PM
I read Masters of the Air about a year ago in preparation for the series. It’s the first time I’ve ever read a book before it became a film. While reading, I tried picturing how they were going to tell the story (what characters, which stories, etc…), and I was struggling a bit. That being said, after watching the first three episodes, I think they’re doing well.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Lazerr on February 03, 2024, 05:55:16 PM
Wat is reading
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: nopoop on February 03, 2024, 06:19:09 PM
Goes hannd and hannd with speling.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Animl-AW on February 03, 2024, 06:24:54 PM
At least on FireTV stick, AppleTv has a 3 month trial. Which would cover the series.
Or you can sail the high seas. Just got ep 3 today
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Eagler on February 05, 2024, 08:40:09 AM
As mentioned already if they would start and/ or stop the episodes with actual stories from the crews it would be much better...
The German perspective angle would expand the experience...to show that they weren't all crazy Nazi and had real concerns about the sanity of their leaders ...
Eagler
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Gman on February 05, 2024, 09:01:02 AM
I'm finding the serious to be "OK", but the air combat scenes just feel very...off to me.
The L/W fighters seem to be moving at mach 2, even when approaching the B17 formations from the rear, they zip by so fast you can barely, barely see and track them on screen. Same with the tracers, they look to be moving at rail gun velocities, and it makes the CGI look even worse IMO.
I can't be the only one who is seeing it this way...
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Dadtallica on February 05, 2024, 09:15:38 AM
I'm finding the serious to be "OK", but the air combat scenes just feel very...off to me.
The L/W fighters seem to be moving at mach 2, even when approaching the B17 formations from the rear, they zip by so fast you can barely, barely see and track them on screen. Same with the tracers, they look to be moving at rail gun velocities, and it makes the CGI look even worse IMO.
I can't be the only one who is seeing it this way...
You’re not. It’s definitely just ok, not particularly good or bad.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Brooke on February 05, 2024, 10:11:48 AM
As mentioned already if they would start and/ or stop the episodes with actual stories from the crews it would be much better...
The German perspective angle would expand the experience...to show that they weren't all crazy Nazi and had real concerns about the sanity of their leaders ...
Eagler
Thanks for posting that! Excellent!
I think a reason for lack of people talking at end of episodes is that there might not be many or any around anymore.
When I lived near Seattle, the Museum of Flight would, every few months or so, have panel discussions of WWII pilots. It was AWESOME. I got to hear their stories and meet them afterward. But over time, there were fewer and fewer available to do it.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Eagler on February 05, 2024, 10:30:18 AM
I think a reason for lack of people talking at end of episodes is that there might not be many or any around anymore.
When I lived near Seattle, the Museum of Flight would, every few months or so, have panel discussions of WWII pilots. It was AWESOME. I got to hear their stories and meet them afterward. But over time, there were fewer and fewer available to do it.
I think that there are enough recordings from the vets on both sides that those interviews could have been patched into the beginning of the episodes (and the endings too) and that real touch would have improved it immensely...it was some of the best parts of Band of Brothers for us..
Eagler
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: FLOOB on February 05, 2024, 10:35:53 AM
I was saying to Perd and Spike on our Discord that I'd love it if there was some inside joke with the production where the German aircraft shown are always different than what the spoken line ID's them as being.
I think the show is 0-2 on correctly ID'ing German planes, through 2 episodes.
Ahhh. I deleted my discord when I got some notices that my account had been compromised or something to that effect. It’s been a long time since I’ve disgraced the virtual skies. Been watching AH YouTube videos a lot lately.. sad. Feel like a house cat staring out the window all day. I should get a divorce, adulting is a drag.
Title: Re: Watching MoA :)
Post by: Brooke on February 05, 2024, 11:33:32 AM
I think that there are enough recordings from the vets on both sides that those interviews could have been patched into the beginning of the episodes (and the endings too) and that real touch would have improved it immensely...it was some of the best parts of Band of Brothers for us..
Eagler
Yeah, I liked that a lot in Band of Brothers. It was cool also not knowing the guys' names until the end.