Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kodiak on June 15, 2014, 08:15:37 AM
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I just found this on SimHQ. Not the best advertising, but it is funny as hell :lol
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3968097/The_Most_Difficult_Flight_Sim_#Post3968097
On a more serious note, we might start talking about Aces High on SimHQ. There is almost never anything about Aces High posted there. Maybe because its too difficult :lol
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Difficult lol.
I had a pilot llicence before finding this game, the flying was easy,
- lesrning
acm,
bfm,
Dive bombing
Basic base defence
Basic attacks on towns., hangers, ords
Learning layout of diff bases ie small vs lg airfield
Level bombing
The knowledge needed to succeed in a fight, your strenths and weaknesses of ur plane and then the 99 other planes u might face.
Difficult is an understatement, but after 12 months and u have learned the basics the fun begins :D
Ect
There is a steep learning chrve
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And the most important thing to learn, how to read Dar. ...
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And the most important thing to learn, how to read Dar. ...
But then you get accused of cheating :P
EatG
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"And yet, stick one of them in DCS P-51 for the first time and they likely wont even get off the ground" :headscratch:
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"And yet, stick one of them in DCS P-51 for the first time and they likely wont even get off the ground" :headscratch:
I thought the same thing. I really wouldn't get off the ground because my computer wouldn't run DCS.
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"And yet, stick one of them in DCS P-51 for the first time and they likely wont even get off the ground" :headscratch:
I found DCS 51 pretty easy, I couldn't pull off some maneuvers but i attribute that to not taking time to set up my controls just so. Other than that i found the skills easily transferable..
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That guy doesn't know too much...DCS 51, pffft
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Aces high is a dogfight sim, not really a flight sim. I'm not interested in knowing how to warm the magnetos in a p51.
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Aces high is a dogfight sim, not really a flight sim. I'm not interested in knowing how to warm the magnetos in a p51.
This....
You use hot coffee right?
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Aces high is a dogfight sim, not really a flight sim. I'm not interested in knowing how to warm the magnetos in a p51.
I just used my checklist. Just like ever other pilot in the world does today.
DCS Startup Checklist I used from flightace37 on the Eagle forums...
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=== Pre-Start ===
Flight Controls: CHECK Parking Brake: SET Stick Lock: NEUTRAL uselage Fuel Gauge (Shoulder): CHECK Left Fuel Gauge (Floor): CHECK Right Fuel gauge (Floor): CHECK Flaps: UP
Carburetor Ram Air Control: FORWARD unless filter required Carburetor Hot Air Control: FORWARD unless hot air required
Rudder Trim: 6* RIGHT/As Desired Elevator Trim: 2* NOSE HEAVY (4* with tanks) Aileron Trim: 0*/As Desired
Landing Gear Handle: DOWN **Do not raise gear on ground**
Mixture: IDLE CUT-OFF Propeller Control: FORWARD Throttle: 1 Inch OPEN Gunsight Gyro Power: ON Gunsight Mode: As Desired Gunsight Brightness: As Desired Weapon Selector Switch: SAFE Bomb Arm Switches: OFF Gun/Camera Switch: OFF
Altimeter: SET Directional Gyro: UNCAGE Flight Indicator: UNCAGE Supercharger: AUTOMATIC Fuel Booster: ON Ignition: BOTH Fuel Shutoff Valve: ON Fuel Tank Selector: LEFT WING Battery: ON Generator: ON Position Lights: ON/CHECK Cockpit Lights: CHECK/As Desired Signal Lights: As Desired Landing Gear Lamp: TEST Supercharger Lamp: TEST Oxygen Gauge: 400 PSI Radiator Cooler: TEST/AUTOMATIC Oil Cooler: TEST/AUTOMATIC
== Start-Up ==
Prime Engine: 3-4s if cold, 1s if hot
Starter Switch: START (Hold)
Mixture: RUN (When engine catches)
Oil Pressure: 50 PSI within 30 seconds, Warm-Up Idle: 1200-1300 RPM to 40*C oil temp, steady pressure, Suction Gauge: CHECK 3.75"-4.25", Engine Instruments: CHECK, Idle: ~1000 RPM
If engine cuts out, set mixture to IDLE CUT-OFF. Re-prime 1s for restart. Starter is good for 4 attempts before 5 minute cool-down.
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That takes around 1 minute when you've done it enough. And when I get tired of the realism setting, I switch to easy mode and press E to start my engines. Like I'm sure 90% of us DCS pilots do. :neener:
I mean, if you want uber stupid crasy realism, sure, turn up the realism on. Knock yourself out. But time is precious, and I would rather spend my minutes flying and in the air that trying to figure out why my engine isn't starting... I hit the start 4 or 5 times and end up wasting time before trying again because I left my fuel booster off. : :lol
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I have been a regular visitor to SimHQ for over 10 years. SimHQ recently (last November) posted an article on Aces High:
http://www.simhq.com/daily-news/aces-high-air-combat-game-hitech-creations.html (http://www.simhq.com/daily-news/aces-high-air-combat-game-hitech-creations.html)
If memory serves it did not even generate a post in the SimHQ forum's "Article Feedback" section....which is rare.
I can only speculate on why SimHQ doesn't cover Aces High much. I've gathered from interaction with other SimHQ forum regulars that AH is considered to be a bit "gamey". That didn't make much sense to me the first couple of times I heard it, given some of the games SimHQ reguarly coveres (e.g. War Thunder, etc) are certainly far more so...but there you go.
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Aces high is a dogfight sim, not really a flight sim. I'm not interested in knowing how to warm the magnetos in a p51.
LOLOLOL
I suggest you not pee on them...
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I read an article ages ago saying AH people were very insular :old:
SimHQ like big sasauge :rofl
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After looking around SimHQ's forums. It seems management there is a tad partisan about what games it covers. And the games it covers seem to have relationships with SimHQ. So is it we the community of AH are too insular, or is it Mr. Hitech didn't kiss the correct tushys at SimHQ to foster Industry solidarity amongst insular partisans?
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After looking around SimHQ's forums. It seems management there is a tad partisan about what games it covers. And the games it covers seem to have relationships with SimHQ. So is it we the community of AH are too insular, or is it Mr. Hitech didn't kiss the correct tushys at SimHQ to foster Industry solidarity amongst insular partisans?
Probably a little of both, I think both companies (HTC and SimHQ) don't have unlimited resources and must consider carefully where and how much of their limited resources they should invest into anything.
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After looking around SimHQ's forums. It seems management there is a tad partisan about what games it covers. And the games it covers seem to have relationships with SimHQ. So is it we the community of AH are too insular, or is it Mr. Hitech didn't kiss the correct tushys at SimHQ to foster Industry solidarity amongst insular partisans?
I can't comment on HiTech's relationship with SimHQ. All I can comment on is what I stated: Based on various conversations I've had with other forum members the consensus seemed to be what I stated, which I found odd. I can say I've brought up AH a dozen or so times over the years to various members trying to get them to try the game with no real luck....which is a shame.
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After looking around SimHQ's forums. It seems management there is a tad partisan about what games it covers. And the games it covers seem to have relationships with SimHQ. So is it we the community of AH are too insular, or is it Mr. Hitech didn't kiss the correct tushys at SimHQ to foster Industry solidarity amongst insular partisans?
It wasn't like that in the early days, there was a good relationship with SimHQ and AH.
ack-ack
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It wasn't like that in the early days, there was a good relationship with SimHQ and AH.
ack-ack
you're right ack-ack, at one time it was quite close but with the dot.bomb effects, the relationship has been quiet if anything. Seems that SimHQ is a big fan base for DCS series and IL2 fans. With the decline of combat flight simulation as a gaming genre we have little choice lately in the area of new simulators. Especially the higher fidelity modelled sims. And activity at SIMHQ is nowhere near what it was late 1999/early 2000.
But we still have each other. (For what it's worth) :lol
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When you are being passively ignored and your industry is not actively painting you to potential communities of new customers. It leaves room to suddenly throw a game changer and gain eyes on your offering. Aside from WT and IL2 player forums. The world is not actively creating any image good or bad of Aces High after a few years ago other than the recent bit at SimHQ.
I'm really looking forward to the new AH offering. I've worn out the 2 week button on my alarm clock... :)
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A realistic combat flight sim is a niche within a niche. Games like these will never be popular to the masses, and chances are people who visit sim HQ already know about aces high.
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The game itself is not what I saw criticized at SimHQ. The moderation of bbs/200 is.
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The moderation of 200 and the BBS did come up during the conversations I've had as well, more so in recent years than when I first started. That said, there are members of the SimHQ community who criticized the game itself (e.g. not having a accurate flight model, etc).
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There will always be those who want to take a cheap shot at any given company.
It is easy to talk behind the backs of others. They do not have to prove anything as there will always be a following of those who want to believe all that nonsense.
People who believe they should be able to say anything, with impunity are never going to like posting here. People who believe they are owed something will not be happy campers either.
It is the nature of being in the public eye for as long as we have been.
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Oh I just had a laugh. Here's why.
Sometimes I joke that the average AH player buys his clothes from Cabelas, does not have a facebook page, and probably wears a John Deere hat.
So I go to SimHQ forums, and what do I see at the top of the forum page? An add banner for John Deere. :rofl
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I felt it necessary to challenge the DCS 51 pile it to a 1 v 1. We need to teach them properly before they come over. :aok
We will see if they have shrinkage over there
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Ah yes. That will certainly attract and encourage people to join the game. :rolleyes:
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Oh I just had a laugh. Here's why.
Sometimes I joke that the average AH player buys his clothes from Cabelas, does not have a facebook page, and probably wears a John Deere hat.
So I go to SimHQ forums, and what do I see at the top of the forum page? An add banner for John Deere. :rofl
Probably because Googlebot saw your remark and profiled that ad there. Internet is mysterious...
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Lot of new names in game :)
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After looking around SimHQ's forums. It seems management there is a tad partisan about what games it covers. And the games it covers seem to have relationships with SimHQ. So is it we the community of AH are too insular, or is it Mr. Hitech didn't kiss the correct tushys at SimHQ to foster Industry solidarity amongst insular partisans?
"SimHQ doesn't like exactly what I think they should like so clearly they are biased against Aces High."
You'll say anything to try and blame the problems with Aces High on anybody and anything but HTC.
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Ah yes. That will certainly attract and encourage people to join the game. :rolleyes:
Yes it will. They will see the skills required to be competitive in this game or they may already have them and they will be humbled by them. They will see the level of difficulty and rise to it by dying over and over and over. Sound familiar? lol. I'm sure it does...
Its how we all started, bar none, so to skip this step is akin to trying to run before you walk. But you know this already because you have been through this process like 99% of us.
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Yes it will. They will see the skills required to be competitive in this game or they may already have them and they will be humbled by them. They will see the level of difficulty and rise to it by dying over and over and over. Sound familiar? lol. I'm sure it does...
Its how we all started, bar none, so to skip this step is akin to trying to run before you walk. But you know this already because you have been through this process like 99% of us.
You missed my point.
BTW - Before you assume....try flying in their world using their rules and engine sometime. Join a IL2 CLOD server, or even some of the older IL2 servers on HyperLobby. Let me know how it goes.
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You missed my point.
BTW - Before you assume....try flying in their world using their rules and engine sometime. Join a IL2 CLOD server, or even some of the older IL2 servers on HyperLobby. Let me know how it goes.
Hey Fulcrum, although it's been awhile for me, I have fully indulged flying IL2 and it's expansion packs, years back...
Now I am becoming what ya'll call a dinasour, and only have about roughly 30 to 40% of my gaming/fighting skill now from what I once could muster... but I will feel very good to lay down the same challenge that Changeup has done, already knowing, I have no worries or second thoughts of showing
a opponent the tower, repeatedly... That is how much different AH is from everything since AW SVGA and WB.... I stand by that.... and I assert to you I have in-depth compared every type flightsim since, except world of warplanes...
TC and I apologize if that comes across to cocky...
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In regards to Ack Ack's post... back in beta up to even mid 2000's, AH had Andy Bush as well as Badboy writing new articles to be published at SimHQ , up til beta of AH2 anyways...
It is this exact community that did not bother to post or add comments, is the reason for the way people at the SimHQ forums think of AH the way they do...
TC
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Word of mouth has always been the best advertisement...
To simplify my last post!
TC
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You missed my point.
BTW - Before you assume....try flying in their world using their rules and engine sometime. Join a IL2 CLOD server, or even some of the older IL2 servers on HyperLobby. Let me know how it goes.
I'm assuming nothing Fulcrum. I have flown in their world. Only about 40 hours worth but it was (in this order):
Boring
Unchallenging
Gamey
Forgiving as hell
Historically insignificant
Not something I would be proud of being good at
I need give you no other feedback. If you've flown as you say you have, you'd know this already and spend less time making *points.
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Agree with Changeup.
edit - Tequila, SimHQ didn't write much about Aces High until after it was out of beta. Andy Bush is a friend of mine, and actually wrote for us at combatsim.com prior to writing at SimHQ. I introduced him and the other friends I had at SimHQ to Aces High, after several articles had already been written by us (it was our favorite sim/game period). You're right though, at our site and at SimHQ when they got around to covering AH, very little support was shown by the actual AH community there. There are various reasons for this, IMO AH attracts a certain type of player and person, that isn't necessarily just a "sim" player, where as Simhq/combatism type readers were more attracted overall to the Falcon 4/DCS sort of pace. It's like living in a big city or the country - the two types don't often mix in my experience.
I posted something similar to this over there at SimHQ last week.
I worked at a competitor site to SimHQ back when they started, and we were a larger (hence hated) site than they were in the beginning, with a fair amount of animosity between our owner and the SimHQ people. They even posted this long diatribe on their entry page how they weren't going to be a "commercialized" site like ours, and have only simulation "fans" write reviews, to avoid bias in their view. It was pretty funny stuff, I personally didn't care, and had friends and former writers that worked at SimHQ I got along great with.
One such was their editor in chief at the time, "Spoons" Sponauer I believe his name was. He was a very experienced sim guy like all of us were, and had flown everything sim-ish just like all of us had from the B17 Intellivision game and everything else up until around 2001, when this was going on. I had been flying AH since 1999, and had gone through the whole humbling experience already that Changeup describes. I had been taken under wing by Citabria/Fester, and had improved pretty rapidly. I offered to bring some of the SimHQ guys over to show them what I was talking about way back then, how offline, or even small number multiplayer sim pilots at our site at the time (combatsim.com) and SimHQ had NO idea what competition and good flying even was, as the MMO environment of Aces High, and formerly Warbirds, AW, and even FA were a breed apart, and above the average sim guy in terms of ability and knowledge.
After letting the guys from SimHQ fly around a bit, I took them into the MA, where they were promptly demolished by average joe AH pilots. I then did some 1v1's one with, and killed them in a few turns, or less, every time. "Spoons" actually wrote about this experience, and how humbling it was, right after this happened. I have the article around someplace, I'll post it, but the editor senior writers from SimHQ at the time all agreed that their eyes were really opened after flying in a MMO game, and that it humbled them big time.
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I'm assuming nothing Fulcrum. I have flown in their world. Only about 40 hours worth but it was (in this order):
Boring
Unchallenging
Gamey
Forgiving as hell
Historically insignificant
Not something I would be proud of being good at
I need give you no other feedback. If you've flown as you say you have, you'd know this already and spend less time making *points.
Word of mouth has always been the best advertisement...
To simplify my last post!
TC
Respectfully, you are both still missing my point(s).
1.) It's the difference between a simulator and a game. AH is a combat simulator to be sure, but does it simulate the additional workload needed to fly, manage the engine, mixture, etc etc etc....say like IL2 CLOD, or the newer IL2 Battle of Stalingrad? No. ACM is ACM, but its more difficult when you have to take those items into consideration and manage that workload in addition to your fight. I haven't flown DCS P51, but I have flown (and fly) DCS A10, DCS FC2 and FC3 and they are challenging.
2.) My second point is simple: Completely disregarding and disrespecting other's experience and favorite simulations isn't being a good ambassador....it simply confirms one of the critiques of the AH community I (and others it seems) have heard or read about.
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I'm so old I had forgot about combatsim, GMan, until you just posted...
I do remember and most likely can find the PDF archives of Andy's and Leon's articles they wrote..
Thank you for refreshing my memory!
TC
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Respectfully, you are both still missing my point(s).
1.) It's the difference between a simulator and a game. AH is a combat simulator to be sure, but does it simulate the additional workload needed to fly, manage the engine, mixture, etc etc etc...
There isn't much workload flying in combat... Truly. Especially in a fighter like the P-51.
Before combat, approaching an area where the enemy may be encountered, there are a number of things one must do. Gun switch on. Gunsight on, rheostat adjusted. Select fuel tanks, pickle off drops. Prop to max rpm, mixture to auto rich. Supercharger should already be in automatic. Oil and coolant doors, automatic. From there on, it's just stick, rudder and throttle. Workload is generally confined to transiting to and from. Pilot workload in combat is minimal. Moreover, as one gets familiar with the airplane, normal operation becomes routine, pretty much second nature. Checklists and procedures. Well trained pilots can find and operate all controls and systems, blindfolded. Aces High deliberately eliminates all the preparatory things. You take off ready to fight. All we have is fuel management and prop control to aid in the former. Remember, Aces High is a combat simulator, not a flight simulator.....
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Respectfully, you are both still missing my point(s).
1.) It's the difference between a simulator and a game. AH is a combat simulator to be sure, but does it simulate the additional workload needed to fly, manage the engine, mixture, etc etc etc....say like IL2 CLOD, or the newer IL2 Battle of Stalingrad? No. ACM is ACM, but its more difficult when you have to take those items into consideration and manage that workload in addition to your fight. I haven't flown DCS P51, but I have flown (and fly) DCS A10, DCS FC2 and FC3 and they are challenging.
2.) My second point is simple: Completely disregarding and disrespecting other's experience and favorite simulations isn't being a good ambassador....it simply confirms one of the critiques of the AH community I (and others it seems) have heard or read about.
1.) No, AH does not require time wasting to go through a check list procedure for starting or readying for take off, I'm sure it could and would if hitech wanted to go that route, though.... and be every bit the same if not better!
as for the second part of the first point you are trying to make, It is really not that much more difficult to add extra immersion to flying such as DCS or MSFS, you want to know how I know? because I was flying actual Navy flight simulators in both NAS Memphis and NAS Cecilfield from 1985 through 1989.. I was an AD ( Aviation Machinist mate ) and I was both Low Power and High Power Turn qualified for the A-7 corsair and S-3A Viking, and I did my Training on F-4 Phantoms and A-4 Skyhawks... after I was finished with my scheduled sim training, I could play in the sim until the next person arrived, usually one of the pilots or another Mech, from another squadron......
I have not witnessed anything to ever come close to that in online sims and even come close to being as difficult, which it was not after going through the steps , repetitively, it becomes second nature, just as it does for real life fighter pilots or online dreamers...
as for
2.) I can and do have respect for those that love their flight sims, regardless of the name or company that developed them... and you have no idea of what has been posted in alpha or beta hidden forums of how a bunch of us here and in other games have strived to help the developer improve on their game and such... I am not speaking for everyone, but I am speaking for a bigger majority of Aces High than you might realize, that feel the same as me, and has no hatred or nose stuck up at other sims....... and I still stand by my words......
don't judge me until you know me, right now you are judging!
<S> and cheers!
TC
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1.) No, AH does not require time wasting to go through a check list procedure for starting or readying for take off, I'm sure it could and would if hitech wanted to go that route, though.... and be every bit the same if not better!
let me back up a step here...if you want some extra immersion factor in AH, turn off Auto Take-Off, turn off Combat-Trim, and always launch from the Hangar, manually adjusting your trim while you taxi out to the runway, and then launch manually..... this is how AH was in the beginning, it had nothing else... do this for a week, then tell me you want to enjoy AH like this! what do you say? and I promise you , it is a lot easier to do it today, than in the beginning...
cheers
TC
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There isn't much workload flying in combat... Truly. Especially in a fighter like the P-51.
Before combat, approaching an area where the enemy may be encountered, there are a number of things one must do. Gun switch on. Gunsight on, rheostat adjusted. Select fuel tanks, pickle off drops. Prop to max rpm, mixture to auto rich. Supercharger should already be in automatic. Oil and coolant doors, automatic. From there on, it's just stick, rudder and throttle. Workload is generally confined to transiting to and from. Pilot workload in combat is minimal. Moreover, as one gets familiar with the airplane, normal operation becomes routine, pretty much second nature. Checklists and procedures. Well trained pilots can find and operate all controls and systems, blindfolded. Aces High deliberately eliminates all the preparatory things. You take off ready to fight. All we have is fuel management and prop control to aid in the former. Remember, Aces High is a combat simulator, not a flight simulator.....
That being said, the P38 pilots have complained about the time it took for them to configure their plane for combat if they got bounced. In some cases it was long enough to get them killed. Compare that to the automatic function of a FW190 and all of the sudden the butcher bird starts to get real life advantages that are never visible in this game.
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That being said, the P38 pilots have complained about the time it took for them to configure their plane for combat if they got bounced. In some cases it was long enough to get them killed. Compare that to the automatic function of a FW190 and all of the sudden the butcher bird starts to get real life advantages that are never visible in this game.
If we were simulating engineering feats of the 40's, I'd be down for giving the 190 pilots an advantage. :)
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1.) No, AH does not require time wasting to go through a check list procedure for starting or readying for take off, I'm sure it could and would if hitech wanted to go that route, though.... and be every bit the same if not better!
as for the second part of the first point you are trying to make, It is really not that much more difficult to add extra immersion to flying such as DCS or MSFS, you want to know how I know? because I was flying actual Navy flight simulators in both NAS Memphis and NAS Cecilfield from 1985 through 1989.. I was an AD ( Aviation Machinist mate ) and I was both Low Power and High Power Turn qualified for the A-7 corsair and S-3A Viking, and I did my Training on F-4 Phantoms and A-4 Skyhawks... after I was finished with my scheduled sim training, I could play in the sim until the next person arrived, usually one of the pilots or another Mech, from another squadron......
I have not witnessed anything to ever come close to that in online sims and even come close to being as difficult, which it was not after going through the steps , repetitively, it becomes second nature, just as it does for real life fighter pilots or online dreamers...
as for
2.) I can and do have respect for those that love their flight sims, regardless of the name or company that developed them... and you have no idea of what has been posted in alpha or beta hidden forums of how a bunch of us here and in other games have strived to help the developer improve on their game and such... I am not speaking for everyone, but I am speaking for a bigger majority of Aces High than you might realize, that feel the same as me, and has no hatred or nose stuck up at other sims....... and I still stand by my words......
don't judge me until you know me, right now you are judging!
<S> and cheers!
TC
My comments concerning not showing respect to others simulations was not directed to you, but rather Changeup in response to his post on the Simhq forum. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
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That being said, the P38 pilots have complained about the time it took for them to configure their plane for combat if they got bounced. In some cases it was long enough to get them killed. Compare that to the automatic function of a FW190 and all of the sudden the butcher bird starts to get real life advantages that are never visible in this game.
That comes from Col Rau's letter to Widewing (8th AF Fighter Headquarters code name). Rau was referring to nuggets (noobs) who had little previous training in the Lightning. P-38 groups frequently carried their drop tanks as far as possible to maximize their range. Sometimes, they carried them too deep. Thus, when encountering enemy fighters, they are still set up for most economical cruise. This was also recognized as a command issue.
In Aces High, we have just two systems to manage; fuel and weapons. We are always in auto-rich, and we don't have physically select fuel tanks unless we elect to. We can be ready for combat in a few seconds. Guns are always hot and gunsights are always on. P-38s, P-47s and P-51s all have less complex boost control systems. Turbochargers don't have a high and low blower setting. Likewise, the P-51's system was completely automatic. Even for fighters with blower selection levers, it takes but a second to shift blower, if needed. As I said, once the airplane is configured for combat, it's usually just stick, rudder and throttle that requires manipulation.
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My comments concerning not showing respect to others simulations was not directed to you, but rather Changeup in response to his post on the Simhq forum. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
I was making a point to the poster after he disrespected an AH poster with sarcasm. I can see you were doing the same thing to me. That makes you?....
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Years ago if our forum members had kept a presence at SimHQ, we may well have gotten invited to never come back. Since the recent Hitech and Skuzzy crack down, our tone in our own forums is over night bipolar. It's nice in a strange way with everyone watching their manners.
Is the SimHQ forum a place where you simply setup shop to talk about your Sim in it's best light? Or does a rep from HTC have to reach out to them and establish a relationship? That current post is a little tense at points but, no jugulars have been ripped and you can tell the hardcore AH community members are hardcore loyal partisans. Still we will not be winning any hearts and minds if responses always have a veiled end game of, diss my game and we will prove it in the air. That tends to make us look like Neanderthals, even if our average player can wipe the arena with them. I doubt other sim communities use aggressive attitudes and challenges at the drop of a hat like we do to compliment each other.
When our next game version is released, how much positive service can we do ourselves by posting at SimHQ. If we can keep from roasting their community with our aggressive caustic form of camaraderie?
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That tends to make us look like Neanderthals...
We're not Neanderthals? :confused:
But when Hitech implements new graphics I was going to post an invitation on SimHQ to check them out. Here is my draft:
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Yo doods, listen up! We got new graphics at Aces High.
You better check them out or I'll kick your arse! :mad:
If you think another game has better graphics we'll have a dogfight to decide...:furious
***
Surely an intellectual approach will win them over :headscratch:
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When our next game version is released, how much positive service can we do ourselves by posting at SimHQ. If we can keep from roasting their community with our aggressive caustic form of camaraderie?
That's a point well said, however it exists in a world we don't live in here.
I said it 15 years ago when I first wrote about AH in the Simhq type community, and have continued to say it with recent posts here and at SimHQ - it takes a different sort of person and client to appreciate this sort of game. Many people don't like a competitive environment, for the very reason that it attracts that certain type of person. I'm not saying everyone in AH is that type of person, but it does attract that competitive and sometimes almost antisocial type of player, where as that type of person isn't really satisfied with the single player, or limited small number multiplayer environment that is catered to with the IL2/DCS/F4 type games that most SimHQ players prefer.
People enjoy being comfortable in their niche, something that will get dumped on its head when you join the AH community, as there is always somebody better, and is the case for newcomers, very often somebody better.
IMO this sort of aggressive, competitive environment shows its colors on the bbs systems. SimHQ folks are NOT used to the type of community interaction there is here. Don't get me wrong, in their off topic area at the bottom of their BBS, they have their own problem children, and Rick.50cal, one of the long time mods there, I've known since the 90's from combatsim and Simhq, a fellow Canadian. I'm sure his story is similar to Skuzzy's, although in a much, much smaller book.
I guess a good example I can use to describe this is other games. Falcon 4, DCS, all the piles of other games and helo sims over the years have had their own little communities, but they've always gotten along reasonably well over at SimHQ in their bbs sytem. AH, WB, AW, games such as these have tighter and more vocal communities, and have never, ever, had a "second home" so to speak over there. I know many would think it's a perfect place for AH to pick up new customers, but as I've said, it really isn't, I'm sure HT would agree too - the majority of the gamers there just aren't the type of person who thrives, or even enjoys the type of competitive environment that exists here, and few if any other places so far as online sim games go. I'm sure a review there of the new version wouldn't hurt, but it certainly isn't going to add hundreds, or even dozens, or even A dozen (imo) new customers to the ranks here.
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Many people don't like a competitive environment
I think this is very true, and key.
- oldman
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Gman,
Presence at simHQ is not so much for converting hard core simmers, as it is for attracting new players that are looking for a new game/Sim.
It worked on me back in 2001.
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I think plastering Youtube with player-made commercials highlighting all different parts of the game (instead of an individual's ride, kills, squad, etc.) would be of great benefit to helping draw players.
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I think the owners of AH know what they are doing :old:
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In your case Bozon an article or advertising on a general "simulation" site worked to bring in a customer here, but overall, for the reasons I gave and many others, the juice isn't worth the squeeze, as the number of "new" players are vastly outnumbered by the hard core non MMO simmers there. As Zack123456678 said, HT has their own policy they believe works, and since there hasn't been any advertising on SimHQ or other similar "sim" sites from HTC in a long time, they obviously agree, at least to some extent.
As USRanger and others allude to, there are other ways, far more effective ways in terms of cost and effort, to advertise for HTC. IMO some reviews and articles COULD gain some traction of they were placed in areas where the huge, huge numbers of War Thunder players would see them - and position AH as a more realistic and competitive alternative to the pew pew pew first person shooter with wings type game they are currently playing. Just my opinion regarding that, and like I said, so far as paid or focused advertising, there are better places to race those horses (TV etc).
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If there was a photo of me on AH advert lots of chicks would play thr game
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I still think of Aces was added to Steam they would probably get a nice boost in players. Problem with world of planes is its both advertised on facebook and Steam, they have a pretty large community as it is. I doubt HTC wants to attempt anything with steam, but I would say it wouldn't be a bad idea to look into
having Aces added to the Steam "Simulator" section when the new graphics are out, it could end up going both ways.
Not sure how the business aspect of it goes, I'm sure there is a reason HTC hasn't jumped to steam, the only reason I say is because only way I find out about new games is through facebook/steam anymore, call me a lemming/sheep, but I just don't even have time to read up all day on new sims etc.
As of right now only places I look for games are MatrixGames and Steam, recently I just found an advertisement for "TheHunter" on facebook and tried it out; they made a huge mistake of putting "Free to play" on steam, however the game is Pay to play. It got a nasty backlash, but it also did get some new subscribers (I think if they would of went to simulation instead, they would of been fine).
Just giving my 2 cents, I found Aces by the Sim's post years and years ago, I was wondering why at the time there were no forums or comments about the game, I just recently quit playing Falcon 4.0 and Advance Tactical Fighter, was looking for something new. Sims had a good write up about Aces and that caught my eye.
Pretty sure that article is still posted somewhere on the website, want a trip back in time they have some photos of the early Aces High graphics, horrid compared to what we have now.
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In your case Bozon an article or advertising on a general "simulation" site worked to bring in a customer here, but overall, for the reasons I gave and many others, the juice isn't worth the squeeze, as the number of "new" players are vastly outnumbered by the hard core non MMO simmers there. As Zack123456678 said, HT has their own policy they believe works, and since there hasn't been any advertising on SimHQ or other similar "sim" sites from HTC in a long time, they obviously agree, at least to some extent.
As USRanger and others allude to, there are other ways, far more effective ways in terms of cost and effort, to advertise for HTC. IMO some reviews and articles COULD gain some traction of they were placed in areas where the huge, huge numbers of War Thunder players would see them - and position AH as a more realistic and competitive alternative to the pew pew pew first person shooter with wings type game they are currently playing. Just my opinion regarding that, and like I said, so far as paid or focused advertising, there are better places to race those horses (TV etc).
I was not refering to simHQ specifically. My point is that if I was looking for a combat sim TODAY, chances are that I will not even know about the existence of AH. Outside of US this game is largely unheard off, even among sim and history enthusiasts. The few that heard about it, know very little details and most of them never tried it. To reach a global crowd, internet presence is the only way, in websites visited by these crowds. Proper advertising costs money. Articles and forums are free (unless you have to bribe someone to get the article online). I dont understand how other games get a news item every silly patch they make, while AH isn't mentioned when they release a new plane? I hope at least the new terrain engine will make some noise over the net.
The simHQ article that got me here was not even about AH. It was about some combat fundamentals and used screen shots from AH. I then went to AH website to check this game I never heard of before. "2 free weeks, no credit card? sure I'll give it a shot", and that was 13 years ago. That's it, mundane screenshots in some irrelevant article that cost HTC $0 brought me here. I am sure I am not the only one. People need to know it exists (and some people that live outside of the US).
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Aces High is that exclusive gentelmen club of which only the hep are aware of.
(http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/thumbnail/238856/1/A-Club-Of-Gentlemen.jpg)
Not so much anymore since HTC reduced the fee by half.
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I still think of Aces was added to Steam they would probably get a nice boost in players. Problem with world of planes is its both advertised on facebook and Steam, they have a pretty large community as it is. I doubt HTC wants to attempt anything with steam, but I would say it wouldn't be a bad idea to look into
I don't blame HTC for not going on Steam, they probably figure giving Steam 30% of each financial transaction wasn't worth it.
ack-ack
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Ack Ack is right, as great as an idea as Steam sounds so far as traffic and new customers, knowing their business policies makes it a non starter for an already established monthly sub MMO game.
How would it even be possible, with hundreds or even a few thousand existing clients, to add new ones and have only their 15$ per month subject to the 30% Steam wack they take monthly. What if a customer found out about the game through Steam, but went to HTC's site and signed up with them the "old" way, as we all here have. Steam would foresee this, and insist on every customer resigning through their system, which to them would prevent any of the above happening, but to HTC would be massively unfair as the customers they currently have they've kept through their perseverance over the years and such. It's a lose lose sort of deal IMO, with HTC standing to be the greater "lose" of the prospect.
I guess the counter argument would be could Steam add so many new customers that losing 30% or whatever was decided to Steam be less than the amount of new revenue, but it would be a huge, huge risk. If for example there is 3000 clients now, at least 1000 new ones would have to be added just to hit the break even point with Steam at 30%.
Could it work? Who knows, HTC and probably AckAck would have the best feel for that question. I maintain that there are swarms and swarms of players wasting time playing an inferior game (WT), and if even 10% of those customers, heh, maybe even 1%, would probably double the numbers on a given night. It's just a matter of getting the word out to them, as IMO there is probably 1 in 10, or 1 in 100 at least who would try out AH and find it to be more of what they've been looking for. Several reputable online gaming magazines have stated that WT has attracted over 5 million players who have tried it, and several claim 1 million gamers were playing regularly for over a couple months time. All that in under a year of being live. It CAN be done, and it can be done here, but as I've repeatedly been saying, this type of environment here at HTC, the competitive nature and difficulty of the game, attracts a certain type of person and player. Well, within those hundreds of thousands, or millions depending on how you look at the data over at WT, I'm virtually certain there is a few thousand potential long term clients that would prefer AH. Again, that would probably double our nightly numbers now, and then some, which would be a happy state of affairs for all involved. I live in hope.
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That's a point well said, however it exists in a world we don't live in here.
I said it 15 years ago when I first wrote about AH in the Simhq type community, and have continued to say it with recent posts here and at SimHQ - it takes a different sort of person and client to appreciate this sort of game. Many people don't like a competitive environment, for the very reason that it attracts that certain type of person. I'm not saying everyone in AH is that type of person, but it does attract that competitive and sometimes almost antisocial type of player, where as that type of person isn't really satisfied with the single player, or limited small number multiplayer environment that is catered to with the IL2/DCS/F4 type games that most SimHQ players prefer.
People enjoy being comfortable in their niche, something that will get dumped on its head when you join the AH community, as there is always somebody better, and is the case for newcomers, very often somebody better.
IMO this sort of aggressive, competitive environment shows its colors on the bbs systems. SimHQ folks are NOT used to the type of community interaction there is here. Don't get me wrong, in their off topic area at the bottom of their BBS, they have their own problem children, and Rick.50cal, one of the long time mods there, I've known since the 90's from combatsim and Simhq, a fellow Canadian. I'm sure his story is similar to Skuzzy's, although in a much, much smaller book.
I guess a good example I can use to describe this is other games. Falcon 4, DCS, all the piles of other games and helo sims over the years have had their own little communities, but they've always gotten along reasonably well over at SimHQ in their bbs sytem. AH, WB, AW, games such as these have tighter and more vocal communities, and have never, ever, had a "second home" so to speak over there. I know many would think it's a perfect place for AH to pick up new customers, but as I've said, it really isn't, I'm sure HT would agree too - the majority of the gamers there just aren't the type of person who thrives, or even enjoys the type of competitive environment that exists here, and few if any other places so far as online sim games go. I'm sure a review there of the new version wouldn't hurt, but it certainly isn't going to add hundreds, or even dozens, or even A dozen (imo) new customers to the ranks here.
Aces High competitive...... :huh
I've always thought of being towered as the nuisance price you pay to be with your friends and have fun every night. But, competitive, like winning something with an audience and you have a permanent record for the public to remind you of your failures associated with your real world name. Online poker and chess are more competitive than any flight game. You have no place or mechanism by which to hide your lack of skill. You cannot develop the skill of running away in either game to avoid the inevitable. Golf is even more competitive than AH once you have "one" playing partner to witness your abilities, or lack of for 18 holes.
One thing we do wrong with spreading the word of AH, is de-emphasis the strength of groups in our game to protecting delicate sensibilities from the ravages of being towered. After all of these years, a natural mentoring process established itself in which we have all watched some of our hottest sticks start out green noobs. And in a few years become amazing ACM practitioners. We hold this as the "ideal" even if the norm is, along side of them other noobs flourished into strong squad members making their squads better for the mentoring.
Our normal day to day play is not all that different from other games. Groups of generally talented individuals playing together as loose teams. Our ideal gets in the way when we try to communicate that our game is fun and friendly for everyone. If I were a member of another forum where Aces High gets brought up and changeup dropped in to defend AH. Would I believe his words about "The Game", or the smoke and flames leaking out of his ears while he finished by challenged everyone to a raw meat eating contest?
Our problem with Aces High is the imagery right or wrong perceived about it now. Nothing a rebranding and some new advertisement won't fix along with a new look. Other wise we are stuck with a public opinion similar to, we are trying to sell swimsuits to fat women by telling them they will look fatter. While the truth of our game is a universe better than that, which always seems to be over shadowed by the "ideal" and challenges to raw meat eating contests.
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I don't blame HTC for not going on Steam, they probably figure giving Steam 30% of each financial transaction wasn't worth it.
ack-ack
I didn't realize it was 30%, I had a feeling there was something that prevented Aces High from going to steam. Honestly with my business, I would hate to lose 30% as well, in fact I would severely fold up if that happened.
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We're not Neanderthals? :confused:
But when Hitech implements new graphics I was going to post an invitation on SimHQ to check them out. Here is my draft:
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Yo doods, listen up! We got new graphics at Aces High.
You better check them out or I'll kick your arse! :mad:
If you think another game has better graphics we'll have a dogfight to decide...:furious
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Surely an intellectual approach will win them over :headscratch:
:rofl
While very funny... I'm sure somebody would consider making a post like this.... And that doesn't help the game attract new players.
This isn't about a competitive environment... I am as competitive as they come... Maybe too much so. What I've been referring to is a respectful environment.... Which is something our community at times lacks. You can be competitive and not be a jerk..... Sorry guys, but some here don't understand that simple truism.
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Maybe it would be better to say "Be competitive without coming across as a jerk" since I honestly don't think many in our community are actual ones.
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Our problem with Aces High is the imagery right or wrong perceived about it now. Nothing a rebranding and some new advertisement won't fix along with a new look. Other wise we are stuck with a public opinion similar to, we are trying to sell swimsuits to fat women by telling them they will look fatter. While the truth of our game is a universe better than that, which always seems to be over shadowed by the "ideal" and challenges to raw meat eating contests.
If I understand you post correctly, you're saying that the big problem with AH and getting new clients is how it is perceived, I'm assuming based on your other posts, directly from BBS posts here, at other sites like SimHQ, and our own ch 200 experience.
The problem with your premise is that AH isn't perceived AT ALL by 99 percent of the gamers who are flying online, be it with WT, IL2, F4, DCS, or whatever. They either haven't heard of it, or have heard of it long ago, and just don't care, as it isn't their thing, being in an MMO environment where most players are going to be better than they are in the beginning, or that it isn't a "complex" enough of a "study sim" for them. Most of it is the former, AH is something they don't know about. I bet if you were to poll the million players at WT, an extremely high percentage, as in 90 percent or higher wouldn't have even HEARD about Aces High. All of this concern about how AH is being perceived in game and on the BBS is irrelevant, because extremely few people have been told about it. I'm sure HTC has the numbers for unique hosts to the bbs, as well as 2 weekers in the game - where are all these newcomers that are being turned off currently?
You're right though, a new look, new game, and such is bringing about the time to strike, IMO at least, however doing so should be done on the strength of the actual GAME, not the community and bbs surrounding it. And, you're right, the best foot forward is the way to go so far as posting about AH at any site that happens to review the new version. Again though, most potential new players will check something out based on the strength of the game itself, and not much else at first. Over time perhaps the community will become more important, but that initial contact - it's all about how good the actual playing experience is. There are many games I like to play, and couldn't care less about what goes on in their BBS or their version of ch 200, if that's what you're getting at. The community at Eve and Star Citizen is pretty bonkers, yet I've invested hundreds and thousands into them because I like the game, and the potential for the future of such.
The game the game the game. And IMO it'll be good, and the game itself should be what's pushed in terms of advertising for new clients.
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It's about how you introduce people to eating raw meat rather than if raw meat tastes bad or good. Our community often goes from trying to sell the goodness of Carpaccio, right to, you suck as a man because you are too sissy to accept my Carpaccio eating challenge. And many of those turned off by the whole encounter had never known Carpaccio was another word for raw meat. Let alone who or what Aces High even is.
In the end, we literally are our own worst enemy about how we greet and keep new players.
Japanese anime weekly series parody this with high school and college clubs and their recruiting drives. Some club will be showcased with muscle bound macho aggressive nutz advocating judo or car racing. They will be on the school's disbanding list due to low numbers. So every time someone stops at their booth asking directions to the bathroom. He gets kidnapped into the dojo for a fire breathing throw down, or stuffed into a car and forced to drive a death race. End result is using the disconnect between how the club members view normal inside the closed environment they love, and how the poor fool looking for directions to the bathroom spends the next hour in sheer terror. Then the hero of the series shows up to be a natural prodigy in a unique environment to keep the series going week after week.
Here in our game the parallel is all the 2 weekers who quit to the one Latrobe who stays. Unlike with the anime series, HTC doesn't have sponsors making up the difference while the nutz drive away potential new club members.
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Snip
Here in our game the parallel is all the 2 weekers who quit to the one Latrobe who stays. Unlike with the anime series, HTC doesn't have sponsors making up the difference while the nutz drive away potential new club members.
Snip
The question is how does the culture change in game then? Knowing that only a few of the players in game actually read the boards with any sort of regularity. Even fewer still come to the boards for more then general information about the game beyond a "how do I do this...."
Given there are so few here that read the boards, some of which are much more caustic here then they are in game, how does a very small minority begin changing the culture of a large mass? I'm not posing this question with a defeatist outlook rather a honest question given my lack of knowledge in this matter.
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In the end, we literally are our own worst enemy about how we greet and keep new players.
This has some validity to it, to be sure, however greeting and keeping new players is a completely different thing from initially getting that new player to come try out the game. Their experience so far as "community" is out of HTC's hands for the most part, hence it being called "the community", however what IS in HTC's hands is the experience so far as actual gameplay, and the strength of the game itself. HTC is also greatly in control of the strategy so far as advertising and marketing to GET that first contact with a new potential client. New players have to actually tune into 200, so most will likely not even see the nonsense that can go on there in there first few times trying out the game, and seeing if they like it, same goes with the BBS, HTC has even said an extremely low number of clients even use the bbs system to begin with. Worrying about 200/bbs so far as keeping new customers isn't as much of an issue as you think it is because of these facts - over time, yes the community will become more of an issue IMO, but for the first while a new player will be around, they'll be too busy with the game itself to get too wrapped up into the community issues.
I for one don't think there are droves of 2 weekers driven off due to some competitive "nut" as you put it, nor is there droves of 2 weekers driven off because of a bad word or political discussion with a lock on it on the bbs. Like I said, HTC has said very few regular customers even use the bbs, so how many of the 2 weekers would be regular readers to even SEE something that would be so earth shatteringly bad that it would make them leave based on this reason alone. Unlikely. I'm sure it has happened, but I somehow doubt it being as frequent a problem as you are making it out to be. In fact, try and round up a dozen posts that say "hi, I'm a new player just trying this game out, and player "xyz" was mean to me, so efff all of you guys, I quit". I've never seen ONE where the given reason was some player "driving" them off, much less many. I've seen some long time players complain about others (the Badboy whoever incidents come to mind), and use being bullied in the TA as a reason for their departure, but that is NOT a new player - HT has made his feelings clear about long term players and their value compared to potential new clients, so I'm sure they don't see old hands whining about bullying and using that as their excuse for leaving as much of an issue.
If anything, I would say the help and training sections here are exemplary of what the community can be like when it chooses so. Reading through it, and seeing new players, and even longer term players ask for help, in virtually every case, the knowledgeable guys come out of the woodwork and bend over backwards to offer advice, time in the training arena, etc. Unlike many other online games, I've rarely seen answers of "rtfm noob, or maybe you just suck noob" and other typical Counterstrike type responses. Again, try and find some examples of that, and I'll answer with 100x as many in the same time frame of guys giving helpful and polite advice.
I've read here many came from the TV adds on the Military channel (almost all US based only, as many other countries didn't really see these commercials). Some came from word of mouth (Soulyss told me about the AH beta back in 99 while talking about Warbirds in a FPS game). Some have family or friends that tell them. All avenues are effective to some extent, but obviously there are some mediums which are vastly more effective. HTC based on their polling, sampling, and other data probably know what has been most effective for them, and will likely go this route in the future I would wager. Again, with millions of people trying and flying that WT game, getting a few thousand new clients shouldn't be inventing fire or anything. I'm hoping that the new version will appeal to both newer players who demand graphics to fit their gaming systems capabilities, and long term players who are here for the other things that make the game great. I'm on the record though for saying that a new review on sites like SimHQ and the like will do very little in the way of bringing in new players, as 99 percent of their traffic is NOT new players or even the types of players that like MMO games like this. HTC advertised with Combatsim.com back when we had 1 million unique hosts per month, 40 million hits, and several terabytes of data transferred a month. I'm sure he could give the numbers for the number of click throughs that came through his adds, and the numbers of players that singed up for 2 week trials, as well as the numbers that actually contributed $. Knowing what the numbers were on our end, I don't think HTC was overwhelmed with the success of advertising on such sites. Like I've said, it can't hurt, and putting our best foot forward (the community) when posting in the forums at such sites is the best policy, I agree. It just won't make much difference #'s wise. Again, I'm sure HTC knows how and where to best strike, and I'm looking forward to seeing success and a big up arrow when that time comes.
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I for one don't think there are droves of 2 weekers driven off due to some competitive "nut" as you put it, nor is there droves of 2 weekers driven off because of a bad word or political discussion with a lock on it on the bbs. Like I said, HTC has said very few regular customers even use the bbs, so how many of the 2 weekers would be regular readers to even SEE something that would be so earth shatteringly bad that it would make them leave based on this reason alone. Unlikely. I'm sure it has happened, but I somehow doubt it being as frequent a problem as you are making it out to be. In fact, try and round up a dozen posts that say "hi, I'm a new player just trying this game out, and player "xyz" was mean to me, so efff all of you guys, I quit". I've never seen ONE where the given reason was some player "driving" them off, much less many.
When I came back to AH in April this year I used a new in-game name and so I was effectively a noob again. I couldn't believe it...almost every night I had someone (different players) raging at me calling me a spy on range. I had no squad and so was suspect I guess. I was determined to come back, but for about 2 months I got the rage treatment often once or twice a night. I finally tried out for a squad and it quit while flying with them but still went on when I wasn't, so I started a squad primarily to get a squad tag on my name. I guess no squad + unknown player = SPY and not a noob now days. And folks hate spies.
Point is, I wasn't a noob and just let it roll off my back, but if I had been a noob I would have quit for sure, probably within a night or two. It was eye opening. Now, I also met some very nice folks who let me fly with them, but one or two rage treatments a night from your own countrymen to boot would drive many noobs off, I would think.
So its going on, Gman...big time. I didn't experience this my first time around when I started playing AH in Jan 2013 so things have changed since then.
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I don't doubt you, however it may be people have different experiences based on what they are doing in the MA.
Examples - I've flown very, very infrequently with my account in the last few years. Around Xmas this last year, I flew with several different ID's, at least 2 of which were completely unknown, probably 3 of of which were. I had stats based on what I was trying that normally would get a TON of nasty PM's and such - top 20 in the game with kills/time, accuracy ratings, etc, all never once climbing over 10k. I never got a single PM, not one, and maybe had one time max where anyone even made a comment about me, in about 30 hours of flying or so, which is around what a new player would put in. HT could easily check those accounts and verify what I'm saying, again, not one single incoming PM or anything nasty as you're describing.
I didn't experience this my first time around when I started playing AH in Jan 2013 so things have changed since then.
Nothing really changes around here, what changed in your experience was YOU, not the MA or the game. You see, the first time you were a 2 weeker inexperienced player, and other than the old alt F4 thing, the majority of players don't grief them, and try to help them. This time around you knew all about the game, and weren't a new 2 week player at all.
I have a hard time believing some 2 weeker that can barely get off the ground, much less get up to much of anything productive in the air at first is going to be bombarded with "spies" accusations, and even if in the unlikely event that they were, they aren't going to know what "spies" are in the game, or what anyone is referring to. "Where is the guns button, how do I take off, where is the war at?" - hah, we've found you, a spy! Seems a little odd. You see, your experience is going to be completely different than a 2 weeker as you're already very familiar with the game and how things work - I COULD almost see somebody being accused of playing coy, when claiming to be a 2 weeker or newcomer, yet having obvious past experience, which can be seen through observation and stats as well. That's different than a legit 2 weeker being abused though, that's pretty much asking for grief.
How much of the flak you took came on channel 200? How much came via PMs? As I said, 200 has to be tuned by the new player, and PM's they have no control over. A simple solution to what happened in your case would be to eliminate 200 for new players during their 2 week stay for a start, as well as incoming PMs from anyone but a trainer or squadmate. Just my opinion, IF it's as bad overall as it was for you, which again, I'm far from certain based on my own "coming back", as like I said, I'd barely flown, some months not even logging in, prior to returning to set goals to see if I could get myself back into it, using 3 different ID's in game.
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Well GMAN, he did say he was accused by "his own countrymen" and those are the people that WOULD accuse you of being a spy. Kinda tough to be called a spy by the enemy, unless you switched teams, which would would again mean they are your countrymen.
There are players whos sole purpose in life is to annoy other players. There are a couple I would have muted last night just for their relentless harping on other players. Again there was the religion and politics flying across 200 which ALWAYS gets heated up. Then there is the frustrating game play of either being stuck fighting the horde, or being IN the horde try to find a fight. Add that to trying to figure out HOW to play the game and you can certainly see why new players don't stay, and even players who have been here a few months just give up and leave.
Whats the solution? I don't know. Maybe the "sandbox" idea is no longer a viable way to go. Most of these other MMO's seem to have a lot more structure as in only X number of players, a timed match an so on. I'm not saying that is what is needed here but a new structure might be needed. If we have a "war raging 24/7" maybe that war should have more direction with better goals set out. Instead of "win the war" maybe setting goals for certain "battles" and win the battle! More monitoring to have a more "civil" playground. Much like the recent "cleaning house" that happened on the BBS maybe it's time they put their foot down and lay down the law in the MA. They split the arenas once for the good of the community life, to stop it from turning into a cesspool, because having too many people in one arena wasn't good for the new player. Maybe it's time for something new again.
They need to find a way to get more people to try out the game and the Youtube videos as well as player videos help. A presence on Facebook.... as long as it is active, will help as well. I think some form of advertising is going to be a must too. Finescale Modeler caters to a large group of WWII fans. Taking out an add in that publication has got to be cheaper than a TV spot but could hit a very well targeted group.
Then once they have them here they need to keep them. Cleaning up the MA of "bullies", adding a bit of structure with more goals to give those easily bored something else to go for. It also gives the new guys options. And add something to put help up in front of a new players face! Like most "guys" they don't "need" help nor will they ask for it, but give them a way to find it EASILY and they will use it.... well the smart ones will :D
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And again, 200 is something you HAVE TO TUNE yourself. It's free will, nobody is forcing you to listen to, or even SEE what you're complaining about. New players, 2 weekers, have to actually figure out that there IS a 200, and tune to it. So far as being accused of being a spy on green country channel, see what I said above - a new player is obvious by new player type questions, somebody coming back to the game after knowing how to play it, and knowing all of the ins and outs of the politics and problems, yet plays it off like they are a "new" player - then complains that people call him a spy? Uh huh. I'd love to HT to show the logs of this player, and show precisely what went on so far as how that whole " I was griefed and called a spy constantly" came about. I have 2 friends, both new to online gaming (pilots) that joined AH for a while last year, and they had no complaints about being constantly accused of spying, or any grief at all. You get what you put in for the most part, like everywhere else.
Again, all the whining about poor sports, no fights, and some systemic group of bad eggs - it's mostly on a channel you can just NOT TUNE in the first place.
Cleaning house in the MA, like you said happened on the bbs - what, wasn't it about a grand total of 4 people, maybe 5 that got PNG'd, half of whom still fly in the MA and have never been problem children in there - Have you ever seen Grizz start anything on 200, or more importantly grief a 2 weeker? I doubt it. I do agree that some guys seem to fly just to be problem children on 200, and again, all one needs to do is de-tune 200, and bye bye problem child. I also agree more moderators on 200 could have an effect, however I would counter that if a player sees something so awful there that they just can't handle it, detuning would have a better effect.
IMO a good test run to see if what is being claimed is such a huge problem actually IS, would be to remove 200 and the ability to PM anyone but teamates from the game for a couple weeks. See what the fallout is from that. Would there be even MORE complaints, or would it stimulate the kinder, gentler AH that you seem to yearn for Fugitive? I'd be interested to see myself.
What goes on in the MA is no different than what happens in every other online game, even every other MMO game. EVE, WT, WoT, CS, BF, all of them have the same environment, negative and positive, that exists in AH. You think people complain about "hordes" here? Ever heard of Goonswarm, gate camping, and all the other problems at Eve? Google it, they have their own wikipedia for gods sake. What you are worked up about here at AH pales in comparison to the problems in other games. Yet new players still join and stay in those games, and they have all experienced huge growth, where as AH has not. Trying to pass off that lack of growth by saying that the environment in the MA or even the BBS has been SO negatively affected by the problems you describe Fugi to cause it, the same problems that every other game out there has (complaints and problem children), flies like a lead balloon, and no, not the one on Mythbusters.
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Gman is right. It is not the attitude of the players that has caused the people to not know about Aces High.
I have spoken.
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It's about how you introduce people to eating raw meat rather than if raw meat tastes bad or good. Our community often goes from trying to sell the goodness of Carpaccio, right to, you suck as a man because you are too sissy to accept my Carpaccio eating challenge. And many of those turned off by the whole encounter had never known Carpaccio was another word for raw meat. Let alone who or what Aces High even is.
In the end, we literally are our own worst enemy about how we greet and keep new players.
Japanese anime weekly series parody this with high school and college clubs and their recruiting drives. Some club will be showcased with muscle bound macho aggressive nutz advocating judo or car racing. They will be on the school's disbanding list due to low numbers. So every time someone stops at their booth asking directions to the bathroom. He gets kidnapped into the dojo for a fire breathing throw down, or stuffed into a car and forced to drive a death race. End result is using the disconnect between how the club members view normal inside the closed environment they love, and how the poor fool looking for directions to the bathroom spends the next hour in sheer terror. Then the hero of the series shows up to be a natural prodigy in a unique environment to keep the series going week after week.
Here in our game the parallel is all the 2 weekers who quit to the one Latrobe who stays. Unlike with the anime series, HTC doesn't have sponsors making up the difference while the nutz drive away potential new club members.
Speculation is a dangerous marketing tactic and clearly you are speculating. There may be just as many players who STAY because of the competitive "nutz". One of the worst forms of management of ANY kind is "I, therefore, you". Just because one person hates something doesn't mean everyone does. I truly have never had an issue with anyone's method of playing this game. I PREFER to have fights but I like the baserollers, squad horders, furballers and even the "selective extenders". It doesn't matter what category they classify themselves...
Aces High, by virtue of its design, always unmasks the skilled vs. the unskilled and score is not a measure of either. Have fun...doing it your way just be very careful of claiming uberness because we already know whether you are...or whether you are not.
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Gman it's not just 200, it is local, country and private channels that the abuse comes on too. I know you have your hand on the pulse of the game having flown all of 6 hours this year. Picture this, a newbi has all his stars align and he drops a bomb, hits a tigerII killing it and some how pulls out of his dive to fly off intact. He is now at one of his high points of his young flying career and as his heart is still racing he gets rage PM's from the guy whos tiger is rubble an his 22 and counting kill streak at the spawn is over! The newbi doesn't know about squelching, and if he does know about "reporting" abusive players many don't because they don't want to be the "tattle-tail". After all they are the new guy and that isn't a reputation they want. After a few instances like this what are they going to do? Either toughen up, or leave.
Don't say it doesn't happen, I've seen it, and I've heard of it. Even with the small number of people who use the BBS you see complaints show up every week or so. The other games may have these same issues but hundreds quitting everyday are off set by hundreds joining everyday so it isn't as noticeable. With the fewer numbers they deal with here I think they just have to be that much more careful. I just think it's one of the things HTC has to take a look at. I've been here a long time and know how the game works and while I very rarely report anything I do spend a lot of time squelching people I just don't want to see on the radio. Friend or foe some just get squelched the first time I see their name pop up. Doing this increases my fun and lowers the frustration level immensely. New players either need to be taught these things or HTC has to work at curbing things enough so there is still good natured banter but everyone KNOWS where the line is and the consequences of crossing the line ANYTIME.
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The other games may have these same issues but hundreds quitting everyday are off set by hundreds joining everyday so it isn't as noticeable.
I've not said that sort of thing doesn't happen, what I've said is that it isn't responsible for 2 weekers quitting as much as you and Bustr are making it out to be. You've said yourself that other games have the exact same issues, yet you're saying that it's merely a matter of scale as to why AH doesn't grow despite being around forever, where as games like Eve that have been around a decade now as well DO grow? Seriously?
I don't need to fly more than 1 hour in the MA to know that nothing has changed there from past years - is it your contention now that things are somehow different, or worse than previous years? You've been here a long time, I've been here since the start as have others, and I can say with absolute certainty nothing is different from 2003, 2005, 1999, or now in terms of problem children on 200 or the old channel 1. Why do you think there IS a channel 200 - because of all the trouble channel ONE had, and it was seen as the miracle solution by guys thinking along the same lines as you. Great job, worked like a charm.
You can't make new rules, new gameplay, new anything to make people behave the way you want them to in an online MMO environment. There will never be enough moderators, rules, devices, or whatever to keep those in line that want to act out. As I've said multiple times, you can de tune your radios, all of them except your squad channels if you wish, a sea of red, if it really bothers anyone that much. The experience a new player will get here won't be any different than what they'll go through at EvE, WoT, or whatever. You may think it's "worse" here, but for every screen shot or film of somebody acting out, I can answer with 5 that are worse from any other online game.
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And again, 200 is something you HAVE TO TUNE yourself. It's free will, nobody is forcing you to listen to, or even SEE what you're complaining about. New players, 2 weekers, have to actually figure out that there IS a 200, and tune to it. So far as being accused of being a spy on green country channel, see what I said above - a new player is obvious by new player type questions, somebody coming back to the game after knowing how to play it, and knowing all of the ins and outs of the politics and problems, yet plays it off like they are a "new" player - then complains that people call him a spy? Uh huh. I'd love to HT to show the logs of this player, and show precisely what went on so far as how that whole " I was griefed and called a spy constantly" came about.
The above is a bunch of rediculous speculation. I was just sharing my recent experience when coming back. I don't tune to 200 and I keep my text buffer minimized to one line. I just showed up and started playing again. I showed up at a base take attempt with a C-47 and got lambasted on range vox for calling out my countrymen's positions when another C-47 and a M3 got nailed. I showed up at a furball and got lambasted for calling out my fellow countrymen's positions so the red guys could pick them. It goes on and on. It was just a few players in each instance, and no big deal. I didn't "play it off like I was a new player." I told anybody who was interested that I'd come back after being gone for 6 months. No sneaky stuff, Gman. But it did occur to me that this was very different from when I was a noob just 18 months ago doing basically the same stuff. And when I was a noob I wasn't clueless. I've got a pilots license IRL and have flown flight sims all my life, so I was functioning within a day or two regarding keyboard commands, etc. No conspiracy to be found here...sorry.
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Like I said, what you guys are essentially asking for is the removal of 200 and PM and range vox. I alluded to a 2 week trial of what you're steering towards a few posts back. More moderators and rules are reactionary things - the new player you're trying to protect will STILL hear and see the negative experience, punishment comes afterwards. So, I ask you, what other than the removal of comms will get you want you want? You think there are complaints now? The solution would be far, far worse than what you're complaining about. If not that, then what do you propose to make it the scene of serenity it was 18 months ago, when it wasn't "at all" what it's like now. BTW I could link a thousand posts from 18 months ago made up of exactly the same complaints and issues that are being uttered in this thread. More probably.
You're seeing things completely from your own perspectives, how many new players that have been here less than 6 months say actually exist? HTC knows the exit and retention numbers, it's up to them to institute "fixes" to the problems you are all so certain have greatly contributed to the demise of the numbers in game. Yet nothing has been forthcoming from HTC in that department, no radical new rules or changes in the MA? What does that tell you?
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Whats the solution? I don't know. Maybe the "sandbox" idea is no longer a viable way to go. Most of these other MMO's seem to have a lot more structure as in only X number of players, a timed match an so on. I'm not saying that is what is needed here but a new structure might be needed. If we have a "war raging 24/7" maybe that war should have more direction with better goals set out. Instead of "win the war" maybe setting goals for certain "battles" and win the battle! More monitoring to have a more "civil" playground. Much like the recent "cleaning house" that happened on the BBS maybe it's time they put their foot down and lay down the law in the MA. They split the arenas once for the good of the community life, to stop it from turning into a cesspool, because having too many people in one arena wasn't good for the new player. Maybe it's time for something new again.
They need to find a way to get more people to try out the game and the Youtube videos as well as player videos help. A presence on Facebook.... as long as it is active, will help as well. I think some form of advertising is going to be a must too. Finescale Modeler caters to a large group of WWII fans. Taking out an add in that publication has got to be cheaper than a TV spot but could hit a very well targeted group.
Then once they have them here they need to keep them. Cleaning up the MA of "bullies", adding a bit of structure with more goals to give those easily bored something else to go for. It also gives the new guys options. And add something to put help up in front of a new players face! Like most "guys" they don't "need" help nor will they ask for it, but give them a way to find it EASILY and they will use it.... well the smart ones will :D
I don't advocate eliminating text and voice comms, but I do give a big +1 to Fugi's thoughts above. The sandbox has become pretty much a 24/7 frantic cage fight and I think more "optional" structured war activities in the MA would help a lot. I know players who came here looking for WWII stuff who couldn't find it so they left. Yeah, there is FSO, Snapshot, This Day and special events, but to just log in and do some WWII activities on any given night is often hard to find. And these same guys pulled me to the IL-2 games, so my time is divided between the MA and the IL-2 games even though I'm a subscriber. I would fly here more if there were more mission oriented play in the MA. Just the perspective of one player...
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It's not just SimHQ, seems a lot of people have preconceived ideas (or quite old experiences with) Aces unfortunately
http://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/comments/28pun3/easily_the_most_accurate_flight_models_for_wwii/
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Kodiak, I agree, something more "official" in terms of WW2 experience would be a great thing, I've wishlisted such a thing before, several times in fact. People come wanting to experience WW2 combat, but that isn't what they really get in the MA, it's more like a first person shooter with wings and a flight model, a massive quagmire of convoluted goals and such. To me it doesn't matter, I'm just a furballer looking for that kind of fight, but I did really enjoy older WW2 type boxed games like Aces of the Pacific and stuff like that.
I had wishlisted turning one of the very unused arenas like early war or even one of the SEA that sit idle most of the time into a dedicated Axis vs Allies arena, where FSO and scenario like combat could be available daily. I'll find the link to that request, many people came in and whined about how THAT would be a bad option. You just can't win, which is my point - you saying that what you've experienced is from your perspective is a very wise way to look at things. Everybody has their own vantage point, and plays the game they way they like to play it. It's impossible to satisfy everyone, including new 2 weeker players. I will agree that change isn't always a bad thing, and I would be up for any type of new gameplay functions added into the upcoming new version. But trying to pass off blame for lack of growth mainly on problem players, and trying to come up with new and inventive ways to control such behavior isn't going to fix anything, in fact, it'll create more problems than it stops, any of the possible solutions.
Possibly, and I mean very possibly, 24/7 mods in the MA could make some sort of difference, they could at least deal with repeat offenders so that they only get away with it once. But even still, from what you and Fugitive are saying, much of your complaints deal with VOX - how is a mod to know what was said on vox unless he was in earshot, and for PM Vox messages, I know of no way for a mod to check that, unless by saved film, which would take a while for a complaint to get saved, uploaded, then viewed, then dealt with in each instance. Again, what would YOUR solution be to deal with such VOX problems, if they are as common as what you're saying?
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I had wishlisted turning one of the very unused arenas like early war or even one of the SEA that sit idle most of the time into a dedicated Axis vs Allies arena, where FSO and scenario like combat could be available daily.
I personally would love a rolling plainset of AVA, with the same 10 troops required as the MA. most of the time i go to AVA and its set up for SEC or something with crazy non WWII fiction crap. we need the map to reset, and then a new plainset/time of war in WWII.
I guess what im getting at is if i could go to AVA and the map is "won" then the next map should be different.
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The bullying isn't just on VOX. However logs are kept and these things can be reviewed. Our society is geared around rules and policing of those rules. Why should the game be any different? We have the rules but very little policing. When it's on, it's on, but when it's not the bullies can run rampant. Do they go full out all the time, no of course, could be why you don't see any changes when you log in once a month. Your very naive if you think things haven't changed. Years ago there was plenty of banter back and forth "calling out" other players and taunting them to fight, but it very rarely escalated to the bullying and verbal abuse you sometimes can see today. If anarchy is allowed to reign why would people stay and PAY to take the abuse?
It may only need be a few cleaned out. Once word gets around that type of behavior would be tolerated it should reign in any others. Much like it happened here on the boards.
Is it the end of the world? LOL! no, but I think HTC might want to get a handle on it before it becomes a bigger problem.
I like jumping into a mission for one reason only. I don't care if we capture a base, or flatten HQ though I will do my best at what ever task I'm assigned. No, the only reason I join missions is in the hope that there will be a fight along the way. Defenders defending and attackers attacking IS a furball. Thats why we need missions.
I personally would love a rolling plainset of AVA, with the same 10 troops required as the MA. most of the time i go to AVA and its set up for SEC or something with crazy non WWII fiction crap. we need the map to reset, and then a new plainset/time of war in WWII.
I guess what im getting at is if i could go to AVA and the map is "won" then the next map should be different.
While that would be more "realistic" I think the restricting of the plane set would chase more players away then help make game play better. Why pay $15 a month to only be able to fly your favorite plane one week of the month? or one day of the week? It didn't work in WB, I don't see why it would be any different here.
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Speculation is a dangerous marketing tactic and clearly you are speculating. There may be just as many players who STAY because of the competitive "nutz". One of the worst forms of management of ANY kind is "I, therefore, you". Just because one person hates something doesn't mean everyone does. I truly have never had an issue with anyone's method of playing this game. I PREFER to have fights but I like the baserollers, squad horders, furballers and even the "selective extenders". It doesn't matter what category they classify themselves...
Aces High, by virtue of its design, always unmasks the skilled vs. the unskilled and score is not a measure of either. Have fun...doing it your way just be very careful of claiming uberness because we already know whether you are...or whether you are not.
AND YEA VERILY..... LIKE THE THUNDER PRECEEDITH THE STORM.....THEY HATH SPOKEN!! REPENT, YE UNBELIEVERS, LEST YE TOO BE JUDGEDETH!
(https://esoterichyperbole.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/1154130544_f.jpg)
:lol
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lololol derp derp
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I personally would love a rolling plainset of AVA, with the same 10 troops required as the MA. most of the time i go to AVA and its set up for SEC or something with crazy non WWII fiction crap. we need the map to reset, and then a new plainset/time of war in WWII.
I guess what im getting at is if i could go to AVA and the map is "won" then the next map should be different.
If only we could. You see, it would require a specific set of tables connected to each terrain that would load after a reset and a specific list of terrains to be rotated through.
It just can't be done with the current system.
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I had a pilot llicence before finding this game...
Same here, including aerobatics training, and I quickly found out it has nothing to do with succeeding at this game :lol
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I don't get why this post is stickie'd.
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The moon is moving away from the earth, Skuzzy said :old:
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Don't mention the moon :noid
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The moon is moving away from the earth, Skuzzy said :old:
Skuzzy is correct, the moon is moving away from the Earth.
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SimHQ is still around? :rofl
Some of the articles were pretty good in the past while many were just drooling pants of whatever few-and-far-between Flight Sims there are left.
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I don't get why this post is stickie'd.
It was an accidental click by me, that I now just noticed.
HiTech
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flying is easy. ww2 planes are easy to fly in real life as well especially when your in the air and not trying to takeoff or land. (I'm counting 50+hrs in SNJ Texans as validation of this view and hundreds of hours in tail wheel aircraft didn't hurt) anything is easy once you learn how to do it. you can learn to dogfight in ah and then go kill people in any other Sim and generally if you've been playing ah for a decade plus you can murder everyone in any game even if they start on your six even after only playing the new game for a week or so if the Sim is even remotely based on real physics... case in point... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80qiQN1cuPs
Simhq seems to be for games that have no home BBS more or less. or the BBS the game makers setup never caught on but the game did i dunno.
as a player of Aces High since 1999 off and on over the years I never bothered going to a 3rd party BBS/website/review site for info on Aces high. and conversely any games i found worth playing flight Sim or otherwise i often found through more mainstream advertising or word of mouth.
Aces High BBS has been a pretty integral part of the game experience with HTC staff and content contributors using it so why is anyone shocked when no one that got hooked on ah felt the need to use a 3rd party bbs and thus the 3rd party had no add revenue generation from bbs traffic for the game and felt no monetary interest in supporting AH as it did not serve their interests?