Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Coalcat1 on May 07, 2014, 08:04:16 PM
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In my threads on the M26 and 162, people mentioned a 1946 arena, and I thought it might be a good addition and even attract more players. AC could include the HE-162D, the TA/FW-183 high-alt interceptor,HO-229, vampire mk1, P-80, and the jet replacement for the Stuka. Feel free to make more suggestions.Also, GVs could include the Maus, IS3, E-100, and latter models of the M26.
:salute Coalcat1
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How could I forget about the Horton Amerika Bomber :lol
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I have nothing against this, it would take a while to model though.
By the way, mind telling me what the jet version of the Stuka was?
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I have nothing against this, it would take a while to model though.
By the way, mind telling me what the jet version of the Stuka was?
Same here, while I agree with the OP it isn't high on the list. I don't see much of a reason why we couldn't have it. But I think it would go 'out of bounds' of the "WWI & WWII combat simulator" that HTC has on their front page. Considering 1946 is after WWII. :D
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I have nothing against this, it would take a while to model though.
By the way, mind telling me what the jet version of the Stuka was?
Can't remember its name, but was similer in appearance to the 162 with the pilot laying down so he could take more gs.
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Same here, while I agree with the OP it isn't high on the list. I don't see much of a reason why we couldn't have it. But I think it would go 'out of bounds' of the "WWI & WWII combat simulator" that HTC has on their front page. Considering 1946 is after WWII. :D
All of the AC I mentioned where WW2 designs :old:
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By the way, mind telling me what the jet version of the Stuka was?
Can't remember its name, but was similer in appearance to the 162 with the pilot laying down so he could take more gs.
Hs-132
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All of the AC I mentioned where WW2 designs :old:
True, but combat in 1946 wouldn't fall under WW2 air combat considering 1946 was a year after the war ended.
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Same here, while I agree with the OP it isn't high on the list. I don't see much of a reason why we couldn't have it. But I think it would go 'out of bounds' of the "WWI & WWII combat simulator" that HTC has on their front page. Considering 1946 is after WWII. :D
:aok
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+1
...once the entire WWII planeset is complete! :old:
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+1
...once the entire WWII planeset is complete! :old:
With what? Airplanes nobody would fly?
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+1
...once the entire WWII planeset is complete! :old:
We still have dozen's of planesets to finish, I'd rather complete a WWII set before moving on to another Arena. Also again the M-26 and He-162 are 1945 fighters. We would not need a 1946 arena for them.
Only problem is they are so far down on the list I would vote a 1939 fighter (polish) before I would a He-162.
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True, but combat in 1946 wouldn't fall under WW2 air combat considering 1946 was a year after the war ended.
It wouldn't be .... in a 1946 arena. ;)
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I loved and still enjoy IL2 Sturmovik 1946.
But not for the late war monsters but for the 109E7 :D
A 1946 arena I don't think would be as much fun as a Korean War arena. wonderful balance of F86 and MiGs :D
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A KW arena would basically be just a Sabre vs MiG thing. Or a Sabre and Panther vs a MiG thing. Ok, lots of UN hardware vs a MiG thing. Still ....
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KWA wouldn't be too taxing and well balanced
Tupolev MiG vs B29 F86
1946 is pretty broad to put together as the aircraft are all speculation for the Axis.
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I loved and still enjoy IL2 Sturmovik 1946.
But not for the late war monsters but for the 109E7 :D
A 1946 arena I don't think would be as much fun as a Korean War arena. wonderful balance of F86 and MiGs :D
And to me, I'm not sure a Korean arena would be all that interesting. 4 main planes doesn't really do it for me.
I like the wonderful variety of aircraft we have access to from WWII. I would really enjoy playing with the stuff that almost made it into the war. It really seemed to be a quantum leap in performance, while still being more about maneuver fighting and gunnery than missiles and speed.
Unfortunately it would be a buttload of work, pretty much creating a new game's worth of FM's.
1946 is pretty broad to put together as the aircraft are all speculation for the Axis.
Yeah, but it would be fun. Not historical or educational, but fun.
Wiley.
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KW would still be guns on. 1946 would be a cool 'what if' environment. I still want expanded sea toys first. But not subs.
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A KW arena would basically be just a Sabre vs MiG thing. Or a Sabre and Panther vs a MiG thing. Ok, lots of UN hardware vs a MiG thing. Still ....
This is why I have no interest in the Korean War Arena, both Mig-15 and Sabre-F Would be perked, the rest nobody would fly, just like the Main Arena.
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A lot of these "designs" never even saw prototype status. I suppose in the case of, for example, TA-183, we'll just have HiTech install some virtual GE turbofans in there? Or should he just take a guess at what the final weight, power, wing area, etc are?
While we're at it, why don't you buy me dinner, only, instead of us actually going to dinner, can you just send me a check for what I would've eaten?
I tell you what, let's just have Addink finish the designs for the Horton Amerika Bomber, the TA-183, the late-war Gotha stuff, etc - and every other paper wonder that was sent in response to an RLM spec. We'll have him finish the designs using '46 levels of technology. That way, when he simulates them, he can do so without haaving to resort to a lot of guesswork.
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Thankfully, a lot can be learned by looking at the German designs, and there is info on their possible performance out there. Whether or no you believe what can be gathered, that's up to you, since they where never flown.
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Twould be amusing if players critiqued the SWOTL models. Yank,Russian and Brit, otoh, should match post war stats since they were indeed built and flown.
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After the war ended, or before they could/were allowed to engage in active combat, there were many improved versions of already established aircraft that could also be included in a 1946 arena. Would there have to be some guesses in the performance data in modeling these aircraft? Sure because there just isnt a wide body of data in order to draw from. But modeling cartoon aircraft, built 70 years ago, isnt an exact science anyways. So with tinkering a bit with already existing airframes we could add to the '46 arena easier then simply modeling entirely new aircraft.
How do these Titles stick around for so long in the world of gaming? They continually change and grow. Im looking at the K/Ds of some of the planes Ive seen added in my time here for APR LWA we just finished, 200 for B25c, about 580 for 25H, 107 for B29, 500 for Brewster, 500 for Storch, 49 for the Betty, 136 for the 111, 120 for the i16, bout 400 for the Stuka G2, 46 for the Mossie bomber, 80 for Sea Hurri, 420 for the 410. None of them beat out the most heavily perked airplane we have in the game, about 650 for the 262.
So Im wondering exactly what would modeling more obscure aircraft would do for this game except allow a few players, who would probably never even fly them, to crow about how we now have a full plane set. Which does what exactly? With such a rapidly falling players base they dont even add much to events because very few fly them now anyways.
As it is I dont think this game is going to last. Even with only a new graphics engine. I dont enjoy saying this but I think its the truth.
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So Im wondering exactly what would modeling more obscure aircraft would do for this game except allow a few players, who would probably never even fly them, to crow about how we now have a full plane set. Which does what exactly? With such a rapidly falling players base they dont even add much to events because very few fly them now anyways.
As it is I dont think this game is going to last. Even with only a new graphics engine. I dont enjoy saying this but I think its the truth.
I think you answer your own question. As long as we only have the existing player base, all is futile. However, a full plane set and improved graphics might attract new players, so long as prospective new players are reached via advertising of any form.
That reminds me, the only ads I've ever seen for AH were on the Military Channel. Granted, this is a reasonable target audience and the rates were probably cheap - however, I'd think the Discovery/TLC/A&E nexus of channels might be a better approach for new meat.
The other upside of new meat: easy kills. I mean, there's only so long I want to have to work (and still die), tangling with the likes of a LAtrobe or C2Mex. Every now and then, it's nice to be swinging the big one, scaring everybody, running the 440 against geriatrics and cripples...
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Forget a 1946 Arena. Skip that and instead do a Korean Arena. THAT would be a better option. :aok Don't get me wrong, I'd love for stuff like the G5N1 and G8N1 to be added, but it's just out of the question. Aces High shouldn't go the way of War Thunder/World of Warplanes. Stick to what it's been doing, adding things that saw combat. :aok
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Plenty of successful franchises do pretty well with wars that were never fought, no matter what planet they were on. I amiyt the Historical accuracy of AH is what drew me but I, as well as many of you, are WW2 flight enthusiasts. Which is why I understand why active players would want a full combat plane set and why AH and many current players hold on to strict inclusion rules.
But we might as well admit many of us are getting old. Our genre is a dieing breed, those that have even kept their sub's, and if the game is going to grow again I think it has to appeal to a wider and younger crowd.
1946 would be perfect cause we already have so many airframes that could compete, so many models that would only have to be touched up to their final generation of performance. The number of actually "new" air/ground frames would be much lower then if Korea was done.
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cc my friend,as somebody already said--1946 is not WWII'as far as i know the u.s. was not engaged in in wars at the time..so it would not make sense to have a 1946 arena...but i think it would be fun to fly planes that were developed between 1945 and 1946 that saw little or no action.f8f and the skyradier to start.
kudos for a new idea though :aok
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A lot of these "designs" never even saw prototype status. I suppose in the case of, for example, TA-183, we'll just have HiTech install some virtual GE turbofans in there? Or should he just take a guess at what the final weight, power, wing area, etc are?
GE turbo fans? :headscratch: Why not use the specs of the engine it was projected having?
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I think that what attracted most of us to AH II is the historical accuracy and a "realistic" planeset, not including what-if airplanes and aircraft that barely made it to the war. We already have flight simulators that thrive on post-1945 aircraft (WoW, War Thunder, Il-2 1946), so I think Aces High should center on filling a nice WWII planeset, a new terrain (already in the oven) and new maps/scenarios. No other sim can offer an experience as complete as AH does, and this should be kept in mind.
And for the debbie-downers, remember that the new graphics aren't far away, they will include some new planes and a new wave of players, you can be sure! :old: On the topic of new players, maybe it would be a good time to implement some in-game tutorials. AH II has a steep learning curve if it's your first flight sim.
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To be honest I'd like to see 50th planeset: Korean-War, Suez Crisis and so on rather that post WW2 40th.
Russian:
- MiG-15
- MiG-17
- IL-28
British:
- Hawker Sea Hawk
- de Havilland Vampire
- de Havilland Sea Venom
- Gloster Meteor
- Hawker Hunter
- English Electric Canberra
French:
- Dassault Ouragan
- Dassult Mystere IV
USA:
- F-86
- F-84
- F-80
- Grumman F9F Panther
- McDonnell F2H Banshee
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GE turbo fans? :headscratch: Why not use the specs of the engine it was projected having?
That's what you'd end up doing - choosing a surrogate. My only point was: it amounts to HT finishing the design.Reality, of course, would've differed. Jets, as with everything in its early stages of development, were improving rapidly at that time.
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That's what you'd end up doing - choosing a surrogate.
General Electric turbo fan eg. something with far more thrust than the Heinkel HeS 011 which was to power the Ta183? That was my point, your post didn't make any sense.
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I think that what attracted most of us to AH II is the historical accuracy and a "realistic" planeset, not including what-if airplanes and aircraft that barely made it to the war. We already have flight simulators that thrive on post-1945 aircraft (WoW, War Thunder, Il-2 1946), so I think Aces High should center on filling a nice WWII planeset, a new terrain (already in the oven) and new maps/scenarios. No other sim can offer an experience as complete as AH does, and this should be kept in mind.
No doubt, which is why I sympathize and understand those who want a French made fighter made in the lates '30s. Or a 3 engined Italian bomber. I too am a WW2 flight enthusiast and am sympathetic to the purists. And while I agree no other sim can offer what AH does we must also face fact that AH is not attracting new players and is losing old players at an alarming rate. Facts are facts, even if we dont like them. Also remember WW2 didnt have 3 chess pieces fighting each other, nor did it have many of the air plane match ups we currently have in the game. The only real "realism" that counts is the airplanes performance model. Everything else is irrelevant.
And for the debbie-downers, remember that the new graphics aren't far away, they will include some new planes and a new wave of players, you can be sure! :old: On the topic of new players, maybe it would be a good time to implement some in-game tutorials. AH II has a steep learning curve if it's your first flight sim.
Realists arent "Debbie Downers". They are realists. I dont think new graphics is enough, honestly. they alone will probably lose almost as many players as they draw. New aircraft will be welcome as long as they are aircraft players actually want to fly. How many times do you really think a noob on a 2 week free ride will fly an obscure 1939 fighter, getting slaughtered each time he does, and stay excited about Aces High? The game HAS to appeal to noobs like that instead of just catering to whats left of an aging established, and rapidly diminishing, long time player base.
The last few weeks this game has been like WOT 2.0 with worse graphics. The flight game has just sucked. Im sorry but thats the truth.
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1946 gets added, I cancel my subscription. Period. End of story.
Why you ask? Because I have no interest in playing that game. I am already pushed into the LWA when I would prefer an active MWA. Add 1946 and the LWA will be as vacant as the MWA is now. I have no interest in seeing how badly a Mossie VI gets destroyed by a F8F, Me263, P-80, J7W2, Vampire or Hornet. I also have low confidence that realistic flight models can be generated for things like the J7W2, much less things that never made it off paper like the Ta183.
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General Electric turbo fan eg. something with far more thrust than the Heinkel HeS 011 which was to power the Ta183? That was my point, your post didn't make any sense.
It was hyperbolic, yes. But the point is that, no matter what, and even if you choose the likely choice, you're now extrapolating from what actually would have happened. So, let's go down this rabbit hole: regarding the Heinkel n engine, was it a complete design? Do we have a full set of numbers on it, obviously and most importantly, the thrust and weight? Do we know that it would have packaged into the geometry that matched the TA wind tunnel model? Or would the cd have been impacted as the engine development continued?
My only point here, and perhaps I'm tipping my hand as a product development guy, is that preproduction wind tunnel model with paper content isn't the same as a finished producible design. We're thus asking ht to finish TA's work -and that's harder than modeling something for which we have real flight test data. If the two were the same, I wouldn't be sitting in this damn Lufthansa lounge having to go to Germany again. I'd just tell ford pd Merkenich to use what they've got on paper.
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1946 gets added, I cancel my subscription. Period. End of story.
Why you ask? Because I have no interest in playing that game. I am already pushed into the LWA when I would prefer an active MWA. Add 1946 and the LWA will be as vacant as the MWA is now. I have no interest in seeing how badly a Mossie VI gets destroyed by a F8F, Me263, P-80, J7W2, Vampire or Hornet. I also have low confidence that realistic flight models can be generated for things like the J7W2, much less things that never made it off paper like the Ta183.
I don't think it would be good for the game, I just think it would be neat. A separate game Secret Weapons of the LW by HTC would be fun, I don't think Korea or 1946 would fit in this game as arenas.
Wiley.
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My only point here, and perhaps I'm tipping my hand as a product development guy, is that preproduction wind tunnel model with paper content isn't the same as a finished producible design. We're thus asking ht to finish TA's work -and that's harder than modeling something for which we have real flight test data. If the two were the same, I wouldn't be sitting in this damn Lufthansa lounge having to go to Germany again. I'd just tell ford pd Merkenich to use what they've got on paper.
As another example, the Hawker Typhoon's thick wings are the result of erroneous wind tunnel data. I can't say Focke-Wulf's wind tunnel data is correct or not, but errors were not unheard of even at reputable firms like Hawker.
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Add 1946 and the LWA will be as vacant as the MWA is now.
Yup. Same reason EW and MW aren't populated. People go for the hot rods.
- oldman
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Yup. Same reason EW and MW aren't populated. People go for the hot rods.
- oldman
In the end does it matter after you have doubled your player base?
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In the end does it matter after you have doubled your player base?
Unfortunately, I have to agree, I would rather see the game survive in a slightly different form than to die out in a few years. It will take more than graphics from 2 years ago, compared to other games, and a few new planes that noobs won't use to save this game. We may still have the LW arena populated around the same as now, but hopefully, with some new things, good advertising, and some luck, the game may be able to thrive, or at least, no be on the verge of dieting out.
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Yup. Same reason EW and MW aren't populated. People go for the hot rods.
- oldman
In my prime, I seen 20 or maybe even 30 in the Midwar Arena, I actually preferred it too the LWA, however in my "prime time" it was always empty. I see the DA barely holds 10 people now, what happened? a year ago there were numbers it suddenly shrunk by a large margin?
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In my prime, I seen 20 or maybe even 30 in the Midwar Arena, I actually preferred it too the LWA, however in my "prime time" it was always empty. I see the DA barely holds 10 people now, what happened? a year ago there were numbers it suddenly shrunk by a large margin?
Generally it's been a longtime process that just got more visible to you because of your extened absence.
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dieting
Dieing *
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In my prime, I seen 20 or maybe even 30 in the Midwar Arena, I actually preferred it too the LWA, however in my "prime time" it was always empty. I see the DA barely holds 10 people now, what happened? a year ago there were numbers it suddenly shrunk by a large margin?
Actually thats the K/D stat that concerns me most. Apr. 2013 compared to Apr. 2014. Counting both LWA and MWA were looking at about a 150,000 less K/Ds. Not scientific but far from irrelevant. I love WW2 era flight and want to see it thrive.
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In the end does it matter after you have doubled your player base?
Wish I could foretell the future. I have doubt that the allure of 1946 planes, to the extent that it will attract anyone, will double the player base. After the gloss wears off, I suppose you could add 1950s jets, and then Vietnam jets, and the beat might go on. But I think the diminishing player base is due to factors other than the types of aircraft available to us.
- oldman
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In my threads on the M26 and 162, people mentioned a 1946 arena, and I thought it might be a good addition and even attract more players. AC could include the HE-162D, the TA/FW-183 high-alt interceptor,HO-229, vampire mk1, P-80, and the jet replacement for the Stuka. Feel free to make more suggestions.Also, GVs could include the Maus, IS3, E-100, and latter models of the M26.
:salute Coalcat1
I sure wouldn't mind an arena with F8F, F4U-5, Sea Fury, Firefly, etc. It would be kinda fun.
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Wish I could foretell the future. I have doubt that the allure of 1946 planes, to the extent that it will attract anyone, will double the player base. After the gloss wears off, I suppose you could add 1950s jets, and then Vietnam jets, and the beat might go on. But I think the diminishing player base is due to factors other than the types of aircraft available to us.
- oldman
As I've said, there aren't many good Vietnam sim out there, so that could also atract some new players. Same goes for Korea as well, haven't seen a good one at all. So those ideas could be helpful to attracting players, let alone being pretty dam fun :D
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How about this idea, then? Forget Luftwaffe '46. It's not reality. Instead, how about a 1950-1953 arena that features any real (genuine production military ac for which there is test data) ac from the postwar-Korea era. You coul do something similar for 60-73and pick up Vietnam and all the me wars.
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How about this idea, then? Forget Luftwaffe '46. It's not reality. Instead, how about a 1950-1953 arena that features any real (genuine production military ac for which there is test data) ac from the postwar-Korea era. You coul do something similar for 60-73and pick up Vietnam and all the me wars.
Good idea.
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As I've said, there aren't many good Vietnam sim out there, so that could also atract some new players. Same goes for Korea as well, haven't seen a good one at all. So those ideas could be helpful to attracting players, let alone being pretty dam fun :D
F4 vs SAM
A4 vs SAM
B52 vs SAM
A6 vs SAM
HUEY vs ground fire
Etc.
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F4 vs SAM
A4 vs SAM
B52 vs SAM
A6 vs SAM
HUEY vs ground fire
Etc.
That's why you do a '73 arena:
F-4 vs. Mig-21
Mirage III vs. Mig-21
F-105 vs. Mig-21
Mig-21 vs. Mig-21
F-111 vs. Mig-21
A-4 vs. Mig-21
Seriously, though, there'd be other Russian planes... mostly Mig-17s and 19s.
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F4 vs SAM
A4 vs SAM
B52 vs SAM
A6 vs SAM
HUEY vs ground fire
Etc.
As long as the ground targets were destructible, wouldn't that be what people want based on how most of the arena plays? :devil
Wiley.