Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: muckmaw on June 25, 2003, 12:34:42 PM
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Last night, during squad ops, an enemy CV was just off the coast of a Knight field in Sect 4, 3 Keypad 4. (I can't remember the field name)
My bomber group was tasked with tajing out the CV. We upped 3 flights of B-26's from a base 2 sectors away and climbed out. Our squaddies, duking it out with the CV vectored us to target, and we began our attack run at 10k.
While on the bomb run, I was looking down my bombsight when I saw the spokesman for Furball warfare, Lazs, flying on the deck, having a grand time in the furball.
Furball mentality says you leave the CV alone, and let the furball go on. Strat mentality says sink the CV and protect the base.
Sorry, but Strat is my game and squad night for us involves playing strategically.
Bombs away, CV destroyed.
This is where Strat and Furball will always collide.
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I wouldn't feel bad. You did a 'legitimate' thing IMO.
If you suicided then I think people could be pissy about it.
If anyone was more caution of the CV then they would have been watching dar and upped fighter to interdict or moved the CV.
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Was that the Cv near A216 at approx 2300 hrs, eastern?
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They did pull an evasive maneuver with the CV at the last moment, but with 9 bombers dropping simultaneously, no matter which way they turned it, we had a salvo already on it's way to that spot.
The only thing that could have stopped us would have been a cap at say 8k, as we were unescorted, and marauding fighters would have ripped us up as we were looking down the bombsight.
Also, if the CV was turning much sooner, and not in a last ditch effort, it would have made our line up much harder.
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Originally posted by Apache
Was that the Cv near A216 at approx 2300 hrs, eastern?
Can't remember. I remember being vectored to 4,3 Key 4.
I was up about 10:15, and it was my first run so I would think we probably dropped around 10:30 pm EST.
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Not sure if thats the one I was at or not Muck. 10:30 might be a tad early so might not be.
The reason I bring it up was, said CV was in no way a threat to A216, nor anywhere else for that matter under its current condition. There were 4 BK's, Wadke and Karnak and a few others I don't know but this CV was totally dominated. Dominated so much in that we were letting the cons come out a little before they got mad and went home.
Sometimes, IMO, it would be tactically sound to let a CV live. If a decent furballin' squad has a third or so of a country tied up, seems like it would open up other areas.
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IIRC there was a friendly CV in the area...within gun range, and the 2 were trading salvos. The entire engagement was right off the coast of a knight base, and the dar bar showed the sides about even.
I can see you're point tactically. This is why I never go out CV hunting. We are only tasked to sink them when they are a threat to our CV or a field.
No matter the case, if it's squad night and 40Dog tells me to sink a CV, I'm sinking a CV. Non squad nights, I use my discretion.
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I think it was A22 ... we just took the base ... we had a CV just north of the base (steaming south) and they had thier CV just north-east of the base firing on our CV.
Many cons coming to A22 from the south off the rook mainland. In this instance, taking out the CV was the correct thing to do to protect A22. There were more than enough cons coming from A22 to furball with.
T'was a beautiful drop by all ... I believe that BGBMAW actually got the CV and another "Bulldog" got the destroyer.
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That's right Slappy.
The 3 Bomber formations spread and dropped so that whether the CV turned right, left or stayed straight, one of our salvos was there to meet it.
BGB got the kills. I got nothing, and I think ForkMAW hit a destroyer
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you were "tasked" to kill a cv? TASKED BY WHO?
there are plentyu of harmless toolsheds to kill on the friggin big maps. No way in hell do you or any other "strat" guy need to kill the off the furballs. You probly had what, 50 other targets to choose from 40 of which would be better strat than a furball that was going nowhere?
The reason strat and furball collide is twofold... there isn't enough opportunities for furballs so they are jealously coveted and.... the strat guys need the attention... taking two bases that nobody sees you take isn't near as good as being in the limelight.... even if it is bad limelight... if we had no killshooter I would shoot down our own bombers that were killing cv's.
a plague of huberts upon the house of maw.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Spokesman for the noble furballer.
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Good job muckmaw!!! The whining produced would have made it worth while by itself.
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Originally posted by lazs2
you were "tasked" to kill a cv? TASKED BY WHO?
there are plentyu of harmless toolsheds to kill on the friggin big maps. No way in hell do you or any other "strat" guy need to kill the off the furballs. You probly had what, 50 other targets to choose from 40 of which would be better strat than a furball that was going nowhere?
The reason strat and furball collide is twofold... there isn't enough opportunities for furballs so they are jealously coveted and.... the strat guys need the attention... taking two bases that nobody sees you take isn't near as good as being in the limelight.... even if it is bad limelight... if we had no killshooter I would shoot down our own bombers that were killing cv's.
a plague of huberts upon the house of maw.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Spokesman for the noble furballer.
*laughs*
Let's see, we were tasked to take out the CV by 40Dog, leader of the MAW. Did I enjoy carrying out the order? You bet your arnold. A CV is a much tougher target to hit than a building, and destroying one is my equivalent to your landing a 7 kill sortie. My $15.00 bucks, my fun..
The CV was taken out because it was a threat to our CV and our base. It was a priority target and was therefore destroyed.
Did we do it for attention. Believe what you want, but the honest answer is no. We did it to take the pressure off our CV and base.
Besides, if we were bombing bases where there was no fight, you would just say we were milkrunners.
When I saw you in my bombsight, I felt conflicted about sinking the CV. I could not decide if I should sink it right away, or wait until you were close enough to watch it go under.
Maybe you can add.."Make CV's Impervious to bombs" to the "Arena within an Arena" and "Move the fields closer" mantra.
I'm telling you, add those 3 to your Sig and you'll save alot of time.
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why did you waste your time with the cv? you coulda done the same thing with a couple of p47's. I bet your cv guys weren't begging for you to save them from the mean ol knit cv now were they?
Yep... your 30 minute anal "missun" made me click on another cv or... maybe not.. maybe I couldn't find another good fight... I really don't recall.
I don't even know what country the maw fly ut of... thought they were knits like me?
lazs
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It was at approximately 12:30 est. that A22 was brilliantly snuck by myself 2 squaddies and a couple other Knights! I then released the CV and went to bed.
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"I don't even know what country the maw fly ut of... thought they were knits like me?"
Lazs .... I think you need to start taking some Ginko Biloba ... improves memory I heard ... yes we are Knights. :D
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You MAWS are always causin trouble....I smell a hunt:)
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Originally posted by lazs2
why did you waste your time with the cv? you coulda done the same thing with a couple of p47's. I bet your cv guys weren't begging for you to save them from the mean ol knit cv now were they?
Yep... your 30 minute anal "missun" made me click on another cv or... maybe not.. maybe I couldn't find another good fight... I really don't recall.
I don't even know what country the maw fly ut of... thought they were knits like me?
lazs
P-47's would have meant dive bombing which would have meant a much higher alt to start, and braving the CV's Laser ack in the dive, dropping only 2500lbs each. That would mean even if all 3 pilots hit dead on, we'd still be 500 lbs short of sinking it.
So we used B-26's carrying 16,000 lbs per flight of 3. Level bomb...and that's all she wrote.
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so what's the problem? dive four 47's into the deck and if you didn't get it on that suicide run then up 4 more... still couldn't take mre than 10 minutes. The end result would still be the same... the ever important cv would be ded and you would win the "kill the cv and win the hawiian vacation" prize.
no matter how you sink it the result is the same and if they let you it must be ok so... do it in the easiest manner and win the prize and the admiration that you so richly deserve.
lazs
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ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooh! My HEROES!
You guys are just so awesomely heroic and military and all!
Tell me, do you use a webcam for the crew shoe shine inspection on squad nites? Do you fly in your dress uniforms?
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I hear they kick guys of the squad that won't fly "missuns"... Didn't know there were that many sim pilots who liked being told, er, "tasked" what to do.
lazs
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As you know, I do not advocate, nor do I conduct suicide missions.
And in regard to the comment about kicking people out of the squad, members are only required to fly MAW missions on the 2 squad nights we have.
If they are online during squadnight, and do not join the MAW missions they are put on probabtion. If the behavior continues, they are dismissed from the squad.
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Well, I hope there is at least a Court of Inquiry first and then the Court Martial. They do get competent representation from MAW JAG, don't they?
Do their families have to move out of base housing after the Court Martial? I hope you give them at least 2 weeks to gather their belongings and find new lodgings.
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Originally posted by Toad
Well, I hope there is at least a Court of Inquiry first and then the Court Martial. They do get competent representation from MAW JAG, don't they?
Do their families have to move out of base housing after the Court Martial? I hope you give them at least 2 weeks to gather their belongings and find new lodgings.
*laughs*
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Has anyone ever taken their own life after being drummed out of the maw?
lazs
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Sure, happens all the time.
We see more loss of numbers through the use of the cyanide pills we hand out. We can't have captured pilots giving away sensitive information, you know.;)
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Muck, Fur is inherent to Bishops! :D
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muck... I didn't mean the normal suicide rate that you guys have when someone finaly realizes that they are indeed....a maw....
I meant do they ever take their own life when they are drummed out?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
muck... I didn't mean the normal suicide rate that you guys have when someone finaly realizes that they are indeed....a maw....
I meant do they ever take their own life when they are drummed out?
lazs
If they don't. we hunt them down and kill them !!!
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Originally posted by Rude
You MAWS are always causin trouble....I smell a hunt:)
Oh boy !!! Fun ... Fun ... Fun !!!
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Laughing my freakin' bellybutton off!!!!!!!
First of all, MAW isn't looking for any glory in this GAME!!! We are out to have fun plain and simple.
explaination for lazs:
MAW has two squad nights each week. On these two nights we run missions. Our missions are solely designed to either defend our country or attack our enemies country. It just happens the night in question was one of our squad nights. I noticed an enemy CV near one of our bases and within gun range of our CV, so I tasked the Bulldogs, who are our BOMBER SQUADRON led by MuckMAW, to kill the CV. He did as I requested and the threat to our base and our CV was nuetralized. GREAT JOB MUCKMAW AND THE BULLDOGS!!!
Lazs, I love a good furball. I've also been semi pissed when a CV has been sunk in the middle of a great furball or should I say turkey shoot since most of the guys lifting off an enemy CV are no more than an easy vulch. But I also realize that whoever killed the CV was only doing what they should do to eliminate the threat. Bottomline, oh well it was fun while it lasted.
Lazs and Toad, you guys seemed to have a problem with leadership. My squad doesn't have your problem. Two nights out the week we adhere to command. Five days out the week we freelance. We have fun.
Oh! And next time I decide to kill an enemy CV, I'll first check and see if 13th is furbaling, turkey shooting, vulching, wasting a whole lot of freakin' time, etc. at the CV before I kill it. That way when I kill the CV it'll be all the more sweeter.:D
40DogMAW
M.A.W. Commander And Chief
Marine Air Wing (http://marineairwingah.homestead.com/enter.html)
(http://www.marineairwingah.homestead.com/files/USMC_Emblem_001_100x100.gif)
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Originally posted by FortyDog
Toad, ... guys seemed to have a problem with leadership.
No, I just find it highly amusing that a bunch of "mature adults" playing a game find it necessary to pretend they are a real military organization. :D
I think it's cute that people get "tasked" and "ordered" and I find it even funnier when people put military rank in their signature blocks.
The old LW guys were the funniest; their titles always highlighted the farce for me. But, they seemed to have died down a bit. Still, it's nice there's others ready to jump in and entertain in their place.
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LMAO!!!!!!!
We find it pretty amusing that you and others in your group fly without leadership. I guess that explains why furballs are so important to you.
40DogMAW
M.A.W. Commander And Chief
Marine Air Wing (http://marineairwingah.homestead.com/enter.html)
(http://www.marineairwingah.homestead.com/files/USMC_Emblem_001_100x100.gif)
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yep... kinda miss those who gave it all for the girly grey but the maw seem to fill it in nicely.
Then again... maybe they are real marines with real rank..
guess it's no worse than those star wars guys waiting outside in full costume for the next star wars opening.
lazs
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...... or Trekkies. :D
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...luke...luuuke.
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Originally posted by lazs2
yep... kinda miss those who gave it all for the girly grey but the maw seem to fill it in nicely.
Then again... maybe they are real marines with real rank..
guess it's no worse than those star wars guys waiting outside in full costume for the next star wars opening.
lazs
Dagnabit Lazs! Hoolie said we were all gona be colonels! I had business cards printed fer Christ's sake!
Scott (wants to be a colonel dammit!)
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MAW fixation engaged!!!!!!!!!!!
Beam me up Scottie!!!
40DogMAW
M.A.W. Commander And Chief
Marine Air Wing (http://marineairwingah.homestead.com/enter.html)
(http://www.marineairwingah.homestead.com/files/USMC_Emblem_001_100x100.gif)
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scott... I believe you missunderstood... He said (and I quote his hooliness verbatum)... "I have decided that I, his hooliness, will make myself supreme commander for life of the BK's"
This is very unlike my title which I earned fair and square by writing it in my sig..
I feel that it would be ok with the rest of us tho if yu wanted to address yourself as colonel...
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
we are not recruiting.. when someone dies we will send you an app.. or maybe not because, we don't like you.
Wadke seems allright tho.
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"No, I just find it highly amusing that a bunch of "mature adults" playing a game find it necessary to pretend they are a real military organization. "
My question is, why don't you find it amusing that a bunch of mature adults play fighter pilot?
It's called TEAM PLAY. Teams have leaders. Teams have goals. Teams cooperate. If this game weren't designed for team play, then why do they have squadrons?
MAWs, go on killin' strat in an organized, enjoyable team spirit. I will be right behind ya. Trying to shoot you down, of course, since I fly bish in the MA. :p
You guys have truly trashed some fields I was flying from, and I think it's great to watch the horde of MAWs descend on me like a plague of locusts.
shubie
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and 40.... I probly shouldn't tattle but lately I have noticed that slap is out of uniform a lot and his light saber wouldn't so much as glow because the batteries had gotten all corroded. I don't think he is long for the squad.
lazs
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Thanks Lazs........I'll look into it immediately....By the way do you have film?
40DogMAW
M.A.W. Guy In Charge Of Giving Out Task On Squad Nights
Marine Air Wing (http://marineairwingah.homestead.com/enter.html)
(http://www.marineairwingah.homestead.com/files/USMC_Emblem_001_100x100.gif)
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Hey 40dog....clear somthin up for me.....
The leaderless and disorganized 13th TAS whoops the arse of the well lead and organized MAW in the squad duel.
Is that kinda thing supposed to happen or is this leadership organized thingie of yours just a bunch of cheap talk?
Just curious.
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Sounds like the title of a Foxumentary...
"From the Producers of Alien Autopsie and When Animals Attack":
Where Fur and Strat Collide...
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Originally posted by Rude
Hey 40dog....clear somthin up for me.....
The leaderless and disorganized 13th TAS whoops the arse of the well lead and organized MAW in the squad duel.
Is that kinda thing supposed to happen or is this leadership organized thingie of yours just a bunch of cheap talk?
Just curious.
I can clear that one up for you, Rude.
We have numerous squadrons, each specialized in a different task. They range from Transport and Resupply to Heavy Bombardment to Air to Air combat.
Our squadron works as a team on squad nights to capture bases.
From what I gather, your squadron works as a group to win furballs.
Obviously, as a group your squadron is going to be better suited for a mass Air to Air duel, which you refer to.
It is my experience that a mass furball does not require any leadership, aside from a lead flight and wingman at most.
You should know this as well as anyone. Once the fight is engaged, especially in a furball, it all comes down to the individual pilots air to air skills. Being that your squad does this almost exclusively, of course your group won the engagement.
If you'd like to compare our squads on an air to air basis, I would think most would agree you have the more seasoned pilots.
On the other hand, if you'd like to compare our squads on the level at which the MAW operates, base capture, 4 of our 7 squadrons have a total of 46 base captures, vs. the 13th TAS total of 0. I do not believe this number even includes our dedicated transport group.
Either way, leadership goes a long way in what we do. You may not find it necessary in what you do, but that just makes us different. No better or worse. Simply different.
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This is turning into too much of a gay luv fest.
Unsubscribing from thread.
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Who in their right mind would pay to be in the resupply/transport squad?
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Rude boi!!!!! In my best Rhasta voice, you stepped into that one son. MuckMAW summed it up just fine. Now go clean your shoes and watch yourself next time.
40DogMAW
M.A.W. Commander And Chief
Marine Air Wing (http://marineairwingah.homestead.com/enter.html)
(http://www.marineairwingah.homestead.com/files/USMC_Emblem_001_100x100.gif)
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Originally posted by SunKing
Who in their right mind would pay to be in the resupply/transport squad?
Who wants to be a catcher in a recreational softball team?
It's not the most glorious position, and rarely see's the limelight in defense. Yet people pay money every year to play catcher in a recreational softball team.
They're known as team players.
Goon drivers are very well respected in our squad, and in squads like ours. Without them, obviously, base capture would be impossible. We rely on their ability to snake through canyons, fly at tree top level, and get to the drop, undetected and often unescorted.
For the 1 minute when the goon is on final, and we're fighting to suppress the airfield, or stave off enemy planes, the goon driver is the center of attention and probably receives the most recognition in accomplishing a difficult capture.
Team players, plain and simple.
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The MAW's are very good at what they do. BUT...
There are certain individuals of the squad that tend to spend time in the weeds..
That's all, not sayin names..
Don't want to stir anything up and make someone have to change there signature.
COLONEL NOPOOP
( cuz I put the stars on my flight uniform because Hooley said I can )
Which I dress in before I fly
THE BLUE KNIGHTS
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Poop-
I can say for a fact, most, if not all the MAW enjoy a good low alt furball. Some of us, like Ice, Slapshot, 40 are much better at it than others.
We've got 5 of 7 days to mix it up furballing, and when we don't have time to run missions, that's what most of us do.
Nothing to hide there. On squad nights, we do what we specialize in; base capture. The other 5 days, we do whatever we want. No matter, we always have a great time flying together, and when you get right down to it, thats the point of the game and of being in a squad.
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A lot of mature adults play games. Chess, for example. Checkers, even.
AH is simply a game, like many others.
I play Chess a bit. I've never referred to myself as a Grand Master, however, on any Chess BBS.
For one real good reason...... I've never been anywhere close to being a Grand Master. I'd correctly be seen as a wannabe poseur.
Hope that clears things up, Oberst.
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Muckmaw you couldn't have sank the CV without the cooperation of the CV captian . I give him at least half credit .
Suicide CV pilots are just as big of a problem as suicide bomber pilots .
There were no Kamikazee boat captains in WWII .
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Apache, Lazs,
That was a fun fight 'till somebody sank the CV.
Contrary to what people said at the time it was not back in half an hour. I returned to the field in half an hour and took off in a Spit IX just in time for two P-38Ls to come in and kill all the fuel. Due to my low enegy situation I couldn't do anything about it besides take wild snapshots. I did get one eventually, but not until the base was fully porked.
Sometimes I enjoy doing the strat thing. When I feel the need to do the strat thing I bomb a city, a factory complex or some field's town. The reasons I sometimes enjoy the strat game are:
1) It is a change of pace, more leisurely and requiring different skills.
2) To have fun shooting at fighters from a bomber. That is why I usually fly the Ki-67 as my bomber of choice.
3) To try for accurate bombing. It doesn't matter what I hit so long as it has some effect on the game so it does not behoove me bomb fields / CVs that are being actively used for furballing fun.
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Can't see the big deal here. We all pay our $15 a month and how we chose to play the game should be up to that individual. I personally love the stratigic aspect of the game. Want to furball go to the DA IMHO. Keep up the good work MAW, and just go have fun the way you guys want. Not the way someone else thinks you should.
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid67/p6031c4705f7379093e97c70c371d4e82/fbd45435.jpg)
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Originally posted by SFCHONDO
Want to furball go to the DA IMHO
Now there's a quote for the ages..
Muck, I have Slap on film, I'll send it..
Unless the agreed price for losing it has been met. I wasn't going to hit him up too much..
Just a little contribution towards the price of a brand new CAR !!!
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Blue Knights!
Mrs. Scott here...
Just wanted to say that there will be no saluting and calling Scott Colonel in THIS house.
(Jeez, Hooligan, don't encourage him)
Hey, Mrs. No Poop. How's the baseball bat training going? Thinking of applying shock therapy here.
-Lt. Colonel Mrs. Scott
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Originally posted by rshubert
... If this game weren't designed for team play, then why do they have squadrons?...
We had squadrons because the squadron BBS offered a nice and easy place to post porn. Now that they have taken that away, I am not sure why we have them at all.
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Originally posted by nopoop
Now there's a quote for the ages..
Muck, I have Slap on film, I'll send it..
Unless the agreed price for losing it has been met. I wasn't going to hit him up too much..
Just a little contribution towards the price of a brand new CAR !!!
Poop-
One of us is not understanding the other. I'm really not sure which it is.
I've already said most MAW enjoy mixing it up in low alt furballs. Some are better than others.
So Slappy fights in low alt furballs. So do I.
So the question is...
Whats your point?
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Originally posted by Suave
Muckmaw you couldn't have sank the CV without the cooperation of the CV captian . I give him at least half credit .
Suicide CV pilots are just as big of a problem as suicide bomber pilots .
There were no Kamikazee boat captains in WWII .
Suave-
The CV was doing everything it can to avoid the bombs. We were not going to let it get away no matter what it did. 2 of the 3 salvos missed. Of course, that was the plan as we knew the CV had to go in one of 3 directions. We just bombed all 3.
There was no Suicide, if you are referring to us. We dropped, hit, and RTB'd. You'll never see my Bomber Group dive bombing in Heavies, or flying Suicide Jabo on Squad night. The other 5 nights, players can do whatever they want, though I doubt you'll see it then, either.
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muck... the reason that you lose to such a small squad like the TAS when you have such a large pool of "talent" to choose from is because...
flying like you guys do you will never get better. The TAS may look like they are independent melle but.. they are working well together.. they do it as well as anyone. when they flew 51's they were doing it in a much less harried way (had more time) less was happening. They are learning how to do it in a furball SA stretching environment.. You just don't notice because... well because you lack the ability to see it.
Plus.... fun squads attract the talented. How many former TAS or BK's for instance have joined the maw? We will continue to siphon off your best and brightest.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Lazs-
The TAS specializes in Dogfighting. That's all they do.
The MAW specializes in Base Capture.
No excuses. We lost a DOGFIGHTING competition.
I do appreciate your concern for our skill level, and your unselfish offer to help us learn how to fly by flying like you, but I think we're doing just fine, thanks. Of course, I can only speak for my tiny squad and not for the entire Marine Air Wing. Only 40 can speak for the entire MAW. Perhaps he would welcome a Training session if you or your squad cared to sponsor it, but that's something you'd have to ask 40.
If you'd like to send a recruting letter to our "Best and Brightest" please feel free to do so, but I thought the BK's are not recruiting. Is the 13th looking for pilots?
Player defections have never been a problem for the MAW, as we have a core group of close knit players. I would say the comraderie that exists in this squad is what has allowed us to grow to an 80+ member squad.
However, any player is welcome to resign at any time, if they are no longer enjoying the AH experience flying with us.
I'll pass your offer around the squad and see if anyone would like to take you up on it. Shall I have them e-mail you, or simply send a private message?
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TAS does not, has not and will not recruit.
We have a really complex system for joining the squad. Well, not as complex or as terminal as the BK system but..... it's deep and convoluted and involves secret passwords, cryptic handshakes, shoeshine inspections and written tests that involve awarding oneself imaginary military rank in a sig block and lots of important stuff like that.
We probably are just a "dogfighting squad" now. In the earlier years of AH, we did it all though and did it all about as well as anyone else could or did.
However, like most things in life, with experience you discard the fluffy stuff eventually and get down to the basic things of real value and true enjoyment.
Hey, tell me......... when a mighty air armada "wins the war" for the glory of their country by bombing and gooning and gv'ing their way to fame and ticker tape parades.....
how long does the "peace" last? Is there like a decade or two of relative peace?
Or does the arena just reset and the Hamster Wheel War resume at high RPM right away?
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Toad,
Why are you so concerned about how we run our squad, or sign our posts?
You guys are doing just fine having fun and so are we.
Why do you feel your style of gameplay is more evolved than ours?
The TAS is hardly "Just" a dogfighting squad. I would venture to say it's an exceptional dog fighting squad with some of the best players in the game. If that's what you enjoy, more power to you.
I am inclined to believe our squad is very happy doing what we do, as we usually peak at 20-30 members flying on squad night.
If we were not having fun, I would have seen many resignations, and low attendence on squad nights. On non-squad nights, we have 10-15 players on, generally.
I simply cannot fathom this need to try and belittle people who do things differently, and enjoy a different style of gameplay, but if that's what you enjoy, please continue. I find it quite amusing.
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Lets just look a the stats here,
Fighter rank only!!!!
M.A.W Headquarters - rank 24
13 TAS - rank 37
M.A.W Blacksheep - rank 47
M.A.W Bulldogs - rank 64 - Muck the Bomber Strat killer Squad!!!
Stats seem to speak for themselves.
The MAW spcialize and excell in all realms of this game.
to the TAS on your win I hope it won't be the last time we duel.
BKs I enjoy working a furball with you guys and see you in there.
mars01 M.A.W Blacksheep
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I like everyone,
don't hate me because I am beautiful.
How many surrealists does it take to screw in a lightbulb ?
-
Muck, check my sig. It's a general philosophy of mine applicable over a broad range.
Run your squad, sign your posts, fly the game, destroy the toolsheds, win the war, save humanity, foster world peace and win the vacation to Hawaii as you like. (Say....... what happens to the war when you guys all go to Hawaii for the two weeks?)
However, don't be suprised if someone like me can barely suppress a guffaw or belly laugh..... Major. :D
As for belittling what others do in the game........ check your image in your squadron uniform inspection mirror.
******
Mars, we aren't hard to find. Look for your countrymen, the BK's. We generally try to find them when we log on because at least we know they fly AH to fight.
Come one, come all. The fight's the thing.
If there are any other squads in Knight or Rook colors that pay HTC so they can fight people in other airplanes, let us know. We're always looking for a good fight.
-
Originally posted by mars01
Lets just look a the stats here,
Fighter rank only!!!!
M.A.W Headquarters - rank 24
13 TAS - rank 37
M.A.W Blacksheep - rank 47
M.A.W Bulldogs - rank 64 - Muck the Bomber Strat killer Squad!!!
Stats seem to speak for themselves.
gah!!! my squad is ranked 33 for fighters... and i'm a one-friggin'-man-squad!!!! and i haven't even been playing MA past week or so!
you all suck.
:D
-
Toad
13th TAS
No Mercy Asked....None Given!
And always a <> win or lose !!!
Love mixin' it up with the 13th.
-
Originally posted by ygsmilo
How many surrealists does it take to screw in a lightbulb ?
Fish!
Scott
-
Originally posted by muckmaw
I can clear that one up for you, Rude.
We have numerous squadrons, each specialized in a different task. They range from Transport and Resupply to Heavy Bombardment to Air to Air combat.
Our squadron works as a team on squad nights to capture bases.
From what I gather, your squadron works as a group to win furballs.
Obviously, as a group your squadron is going to be better suited for a mass Air to Air duel, which you refer to.
It is my experience that a mass furball does not require any leadership, aside from a lead flight and wingman at most.
You should know this as well as anyone. Once the fight is engaged, especially in a furball, it all comes down to the individual pilots air to air skills. Being that your squad does this almost exclusively, of course your group won the engagement.
If you'd like to compare our squads on an air to air basis, I would think most would agree you have the more seasoned pilots.
On the other hand, if you'd like to compare our squads on the level at which the MAW operates, base capture, 4 of our 7 squadrons have a total of 46 base captures, vs. the 13th TAS total of 0. I do not believe this number even includes our dedicated transport group.
Either way, leadership goes a long way in what we do. You may not find it necessary in what you do, but that just makes us different. No better or worse. Simply different.
The 13th TAS's jabo and field capture skills are second to none....it's sweeping of you guys to say we don't have the skills or leadership within our squad to accomplish land grabbing hops.
You might consider that we have been there, done that and have grown weary of the same....the 13th has exsisted since 92 within three different sims.
Now, what you want to do is of no concern to me....I would have remained silent regarding the issue had not your CO made statements of which he has no knowledge or understanding about, other than what he currently sees at this particular time in AH. If he knew anything about our squad, he would not have said what he did.
Everyone should play as THEY choose to...it's about having fun.
Later
-
Originally posted by FortyDog
Rude boi!!!!! In my best Rhasta voice, you stepped into that one son. MuckMAW summed it up just fine. Now go clean your shoes and watch yourself next time.
40DogMAW
M.A.W. Commander And Chief
Marine Air Wing (http://marineairwingah.homestead.com/enter.html)
(http://www.marineairwingah.homestead.com/files/USMC_Emblem_001_100x100.gif)
Well, nothing wrong with how you guys spend your online time.
Big squad led by an even bigger mouth?
You can't answer a direct question yourself? Do you need someone else to help you answer a fairly direct question?
What you do with your squad and how you choose to spend your online time is your business....you're the one who ran his mouth about the BK's and TAS as if you knew what you were saying.
So far, you've only shown your arse, as the 13th was takin bases and doin strat before you had an account.
I'de like an answer to my simple question, unless you would prefer to continue to do the crab.
Your call.
-
Originally posted by Toad
However, don't be suprised if someone like me can barely suppress a guffaw or belly laugh..... Major. :D
]
Believe me, Toad, I've had my share of belly laughs or "guffaws" as you call them at your antics over the past few years.
It's only right that I return the favor.
Enjoy!
-
How many surrealists does it take to screw in a lightbulb ?
Originally posted by Scott
Fish!
Scott
ORANGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Originally posted by muckmaw
Suave-
The CV was doing everything it can to avoid the bombs. We were not going to let it get away no matter what it did. 2 of the 3 salvos missed. Of course, that was the plan as we knew the CV had to go in one of 3 directions. We just bombed all 3.
There was no Suicide, if you are referring to us. We dropped, hit, and RTB'd. You'll never see my Bomber Group dive bombing in Heavies, or flying Suicide Jabo on Squad night. The other 5 nights, players can do whatever they want, though I doubt you'll see it then, either.
Oh I'm sorry I thought you said it was right off the coast attracting attention .
-
Originally posted by muckmaw
Poop-
So the question is...
Whats your point?
Well there really wasn't a point Muck. Slap joins us for hair burning on occasion and we have alot of fun. A silly post unless you do want to buy me a car. Which would be neat.
As my posts have got sillier and sillier, you have become more and more serious.
I think the question is, what happened to your sense of humor ??
So if you aren't gonna buy me a car, I'm going to pout. But hey..
FOGITABOTIT
I'll get over it in time..
-
I did not realize you needed a car.
I can get you a great deal on an '82 IROC Z....
Just head over to Bensonhurst and tell 'em Joey sent ya.
Fuggeddabout it!
:D
-
RUDE BOI!!!!!!!
I always respected your squad. You guys fought a good fight and never went around boasting of your abilities. I admired that in your squad. Now you and a few others have decided to dismantle the respect your squad had garnered by me. Let me just say from the bottom of my heart
-
LOL Muck, I drive a 1987 Aries K with power windows, and A/C !!
I'm an old fart. Cars are transportation and I do it for a living. I do have my daughters set up in "rides" tho. ( 70 Camero 383 Stroker, 411's, 4 speed, and a 97 white with leather Tahoe, lowered, 18's, flow masters with a chip and "sounds" )
If I drive "anything" for 4 months and it becomes just a car, so..
I just drive a car ( insert smiley face....with a wink )
BTW, I'm in under the lock !! Got the lawn chairs out..
You like cheap beer ???
-
M.A.W.S
-
Originally posted by sax
M.A.W.S
Appeaser.
The thread was just starting to get really good and you had to go and ruin it.
-
Originally posted by muckmaw
]
It's only right that I return the favor.
Enjoy!
Thank you! At this, at least, you do an amazing, unsurpassable job!
General of the world, conquerer of the universe, ruler of the seas, sun of heaven....... well, fill the rest in. You're way better at that stuff than I am..........
There, I "tasked" you, didn't I? How kewl! I feel so... so... so
MILITARY!
I absolutely get goosebumps!
:D
-
Originally posted by FortyDog
RUDE BOI!!!!!!!
You guys fought a good fight and never went around boasting of your abilities.
That's cuz we think it's unnecessary and shows a total lack of class.
Originally posted by FortyDog
Let me just say from the bottom of my heart F@CK Y@U.
Class will out, every time, won't it Commander in Chief?
-
Originally posted by FortyDog
RUDE BOI!!!!!!!
I always respected your squad. You guys fought a good fight and never went around boasting of your abilities. I admired that in your squad. Now you and a few others have decided to dismantle the respect your squad had garnered by me. Let me just say from the bottom of my heart F@CK Y@U. I'm tempted to say somethimg implementing your whole squad but one thing I never do is chastise a squad for the ignorance of a few. How about we let this toejam rest. You do what you do and we'll do what we do.
40DogMAW
M.A.W. Commander And Chief
Marine Air Wing (http://marineairwingah.homestead.com/enter.html)
(http://www.marineairwingah.homestead.com/files/USMC_Emblem_001_100x100.gif)
That was nice.
-
Oh sure.. the TAS get all the attention... Us BK's think the maw are just as silly... plus... we gotta live with em. You maw ever consider going rook?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
-
Originally posted by lazs2
Oh sure.. the TAS get all the attention... Us BK's think the maw are just as silly... plus... we gotta live with em. You maw ever consider going rook?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
GO ROOKS !!! I'd rather stick sharp pencils in my eyes ... ;)
-
LMFAO....
u TAS guys beta us a long tiem ago in Squad duel..our first one..Did we prctice..No..
Did you gusy wip our asss ...LMFAO..Hell no..u won but not by much
We have many pilots in our squad that would kill u just as many as u kil us..
Hell do you know any of our pilots??
I persoannlay will kik all ur ases ..no problem..
im in the sim ladder..i go to KOTH..I go to DA....
MAW will kik bellybutton in all areas of this game
When its squad nigth..u do what wew say or go die alone..
And whoever said why waste tiem in a bomer for a cv..BECUAE its a Skil..Its way too easy to jabo a cv..
Trust me..I love killing these "fonzanoons" all day from my buff guns
And who the hell are u taking from the MAW..the BEst?..LMFAO..
Any1who leaves the MAW..well fuk them...no loyalty..they must have got lost on the way to the Game..
I am a bad bellybutton furballer..and i will bom ur barraks from 20k
blahhh
Please challenge me....
Love
BiGB
xoxo
P.S. I will kill you
-
PPS
Spelling is for sexcrataries
And 1 more moto of the MArine Air Wing
from the JA movie.."third World Cop"
'We Run Tings ...Tings No Run We" Don Woni
-
I am Sparticus!!....maw
And Sax is the Neville Chamberlein of the TAS (he's Canadian)
-
lol this thread looks like one big furball WOW
lolol 38
-
Originally posted by BGBMAW
LMFAO....
u TAS guys beta us a long tiem ago in Squad duel..our first one..Did we prctice..No..
Did you gusy wip our asss ...LMFAO..Hell no..u won but not by much
We have many pilots in our squad that would kill u just as many as u kil us..
Hell do you know any of our pilots??
I persoannlay will kik all ur ases ..no problem..
im in the sim ladder..i go to KOTH..I go to DA....
MAW will kik bellybutton in all areas of this game
When its squad nigth..u do what wew say or go die alone..
And whoever said why waste tiem in a bomer for a cv..BECUAE its a Skil..Its way too easy to jabo a cv..
Trust me..I love killing these "fonzanoons" all day from my buff guns
And who the hell are u taking from the MAW..the BEst?..LMFAO..
Any1who leaves the MAW..well fuk them...no loyalty..they must have got lost on the way to the Game..
I am a bad bellybutton furballer..and i will bom ur barraks from 20k
blahhh
Please challenge me....
Love
BiGB
xoxo
P.S. I will kill you
I surrender.
-
Originally posted by muckmaw
Poop-
No matter, we always have a great time flying together, and when you get right down to it, thats the point of the game and of being in a squad.
Amen, detested (but respected) MAW. You are 100% right.
-
A feud! A feud!
(feelin' left out) ;)
-
Originally posted by AKIron
A feud! A feud!
(feelin' left out) ;)
Well then get off you behind and get involved!!! :D
-
Nah, I stir up enough **** as it is. ;)
-
Originally posted by BGBMAW
PPS
Spelling is for sexcrataries
And 1 more moto of the MArine Air Wing
from the JA movie.."third World Cop"
'We Run Tings ...Tings No Run We" Don Woni
BGB I love ya bro but what the hell are you talking about. I see crap spray painted on walls that make more sense. . LMAO
As for all you MAW haters kiss my Arse.
Rude and the TAS you are great sticks you kicked our arse in the squad duel. Rude your tag line says it all. Fly what you like. Some of my squadies are hot heads and jump to conclusions. They didnt read your post before they started flaming.
40dog it was Lazs that started flaming us not the TAS he just incuded the TAS name is his post. After that it just got nasty.
LAZS STFU you are the biggest arse this game has ever seen. Every single post you make is negitive. I have never seen you make a single positive post about anything. God it must SUCK to be you! If you and the rest of the BK's dont like the MAW in the Knights you change countrys.
I dont care if you can beat me in a duel 99999 times out of 1000000 you would still be an arse.
Ok ****e pot stirred NEXT!!!
Oh and PS TTTHHHPPPPTTT!!!!!!
-
Originally posted by icemaw
BGB I love ya bro but what the hell are you talking about. I see crap spray painted on walls that make more sense. . LMAO
As for all you MAW haters kiss my Arse.
Rude and the TAS you are great sticks you kicked our arse in the squad duel. Rude your tag line says it all. Fly what you like. Some of my squadies are hot heads and jump to conclusions. They didnt read your post before they started flaming.
40dog it was Lazs that started flaming us not the TAS he just incuded the TAS name is his post. After that it just got nasty.
LAZS STFU you are the biggest arse this game has ever seen. Every single post you make is negitive. I have never seen you make a single positive post about anything. God it must SUCK to be you! If you and the rest of the BK's dont like the MAW in the Knights you change countrys.
I dont care if you can beat me in a duel 99999 times out of 1000000 you would still be an arse.
Ok ****e pot stirred NEXT!!!
Oh and PS TTTHHHPPPPTTT!!!!!!
Where did you get "the rest of the BK's"?
-
Originally posted by Apache
Where did you get "the rest of the BK's"?
Well I assumed. My bad sorry if I included people that did not share lazs opinion. Never had a problem with any of the BK's or anyone that plays this game. Aside from a very small select few that will remain nameless. My apologies to the rest of the BK's unless you share lazs opinion. Then I refer to my previous statement.
TTTHHHPPPTTT!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Sorry, just had to jump in here because it HAD to be said.
The AK''s fly wussie uber planes and cherry pick, OR gangbang..
I feel better for saying that...
Jeez don't wanna leave anyone out...
...and
..and..
Curly is a bastage..
:continue:
-
Originally posted by lazs2
muck... the reason that you lose to such a small squad like the TAS when you have such a large pool of "talent" to choose from is because...
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
What a total crock of crap, Lazs. The 13th TAS did not acquire their skills flying furballs. Indeed, as recently as 6 months ago, Rude would have been horrified if you suggested he should go furball.
You acquire one thing in furballs: Fun. You don't learn group tactics in furballs. You don't learn squat except individual flying skills.
To be sure, Rude, Sax, Yeager, Toad, Milo et. al. are superb team flyers -- but they did not learn that furballing.
Tell you what, I'll go one step more. If the 13th TAS continues to furball, they're going to lose their team skills.
The AKs fought the 13th TAS in the finals of the squad competition. We lost the first round (barely) in ponies; we handily won the second round in La5s. And, we were badly beaten in F6Fs. Do you know why were badly beaten? Because they had a bigger bag of tricks concerning merges than we had.
Yeah, you learn about coordinating 10-way merges in furballs.
If you like to furball, that's cool. But why in the world are you guys pounding on others for participating in Aces High in the manner that the game was designed?
If Aces High was designed with furballs in mind, I wonder why Hitech included strat objects? I wonder why he prevents fields from being closer.
Damn, Lazs, you ought to have the decency to be embarrassed by the crap you are saying. :(
curly
-
Can You Feel The Love?
This is the stupidest thread....ever.
No, really...of all time.
No comparisons...the ONE AND ONLY
If this was the matrix....this thread would be able to save humankind.
-
Originally posted by Drunky
Can You Feel The Love?
This is the stupidest thread....ever.
No, really...of all time.
No comparisons...the ONE AND ONLY
If this was the matrix....this thread would be able to save humankind.
I've seen worse.
-
Originally posted by Toad
AH is simply a game, like many others.
I play Chess a bit. I've never referred to myself as a Grand Master, however, on any Chess BBS.
As you correctly noted Toad, AH is a game. Indeed Aces High is a success because it promotes the suspension of reality.
Perhaps I am incorrect, but doesn't suspension of reality include "saying 'rgr' while using voice comms? Using goofy callsigns? And even calling ourselves 'Commanding General?'
Isn't all of that part of the fun? Please don't tell me that my callsign is AKcurly because I really look like 'Curly'.
curly
-
Originally posted by AKcurly
If you like to furball, that's cool. But why in the world are you guys pounding on others for participating in Aces High in the manner that the game was designed?
If Aces High was designed with furballs in mind, I wonder why Hitech included strat objects? I wonder why he prevents fields from being closer.
The same small group continually belittle anyone who does'nt fly their way, you either fly too high, too timid or you attack fields or strat objects. It's a sad reflection on the community and even sadder that these types of post are allowed to continue by HTC when their only function is to cause division of the community. There's enough room in the arena's for all of us to play the way we like so why bring the battle from the arena's into the forums?
-
I have just read this thread from start to finish. I’m inclined to agree with my CO, Revvin, above.
There are a few anomalies in here. One is that the people who have from time to time suggested that I would never be happy unless everyone were to fly MY way are the very same people who denounce others who do not fly THEIR way. And another anomaly I notice is that the ones who decry organisation/teamwork/rank/chain of command etc. are the ones who positively embrace uniformity by way of their Avatar pics! I keep seeing the BK blue heart and the 13th flag thingo over and over again in this thread. Still, I have long known that gangbangery is not limited to the main arena, but extends to this BBS as well...
Yes, this is a game, and as with any game we wish to derive enjoyment, but that is very much a subjective entity in a game like AH. Tootling around in furballs does not do it for me, but if it does it for you, that’s fine. I was never much of a team player in real life, so in games like AH I really enjoy the teamwork when I can find it. If that means “following orders” from a guy like Rod367th (for example), then so be it. He knows what he’s doing. The teamwork/orders thing adds to the immersion factor.
Muckmaw, I have read what you have said in this and other threads, and I find myself nodding in agreement most of the time. I’d enjoy working with guys like you, just as I have enjoyed working with AKCurly and other AKxxxx guys – Nimitz, Owl, Wabbit, Wire, Wrong etc...
But as to how seriously I take this game, look no further than my own avatar. :D
-
I cannot for the life of me understand people that attempt to dictate to others how the game should be played.
I like to think there is enough diversity to satisfy everyone. People that come to the board and make attempts to sway how everyone plays the game need a reality check.
The goal is simple: Have fun! If it means furballing, then furball, if it means missions, then play the missions, if it is strat, then play strat. Point being, no one has the right to tell others how to play.
If you enter a thread about strat, and you do not like strat, then why post in that thread (as an example)?
Let people make thier own choices and have thier own discussions. Sometimes it is apropo to keep your fingers from the keyboard. Just becasue you have an opinion, does not make it right.
-
I don't really care how anyone plays so long as it doesn't have a lopsided effect on how I play... if HTC allowed the atomic bomb and it made all the enemies fields radioactive then that would affect me too much for instance.
What I want is opportunity. I like to furball... a lot of guys do. if the only available fields are 2 sectors apart then my opportunity is severly limited. The strat guys are not affected so they don't care. if fact... if the fields are far apart people are pretty much forced to fly their way.
If the fields are closer together then all that is changed is that more people have more choice. No one is given an advantage or is able to affect other players choice in any lopsided manner. My furballing does not hurt anyones strat in any way other than me shooting down the occassional plane.
lazs
-
I find it hard to believe there could be a whole lot of camaraderie between 80 or so odd squad members. This isn’t an attack on you MAW’s just hard for me to believe that’s possible. Actually, I think possible, but highly unlikely. More likely a handful of good sticks with a bunch of lemmings or cannon fodder to fill the “numbers”. An attrition game, base capture on the basis of steam roller, which is the new game it seems.
You can have that appearance of camaraderie by having 10-15 on a night but that’s a purely numbers game anyhow. You said it yourself that on squad nights you have a good showing of 20-30. Well hell I hope so with 80 in the squad. 25%-35% of the squad showing on squad night is good? Again, it’s all in the numbers.
Good sticks, yeah I have no doubt you have quite a few, again with the numbers and percentages game you should have.
There is also no way on earth I could fathom wanting to be in a dedicated “transport” squad? It’s their 15 bucks though so have at it.
No idea what beet1e is talking about concerning BBS gangbanging. Then again his infatuation with the 13th, specifically Toad, and the BK’s, specifically lazs, is disturbing. When I found out about the emails, man, let it go dude... Maybe we can have action figures made if that would help with therapy. Maybe it’s mad cow?
-
Zipp-
Actually, we are a very tight knit group. We have about 30 players who make just about every squad night, but we're all working men, and some of us have families, so those numbers can fluctuate.
We also have members who are outside the US and squadnights are difficult for them to attend, but they do their best.
In essence, I could not imagine flying for any other squad, as these guys are my friends, as well as teammates. There's not a single guy I could say a bad thing about in the squad...except for BGB's spelling...:D .
If I had to estimate, out of the 80 plus members, 30 are very active, 30 are quite active and 20 to 30 are either MIA, Busy with life, having computer problems, or just enjoying the summer.
Regards,
-
Hey Zip,
Good assumptions but dead wrong. There is a whole lot of camaraderie. When I joined the MAW they were about half the size we are now. ( I think give or take 10 or 20 lol ) The one thing that stuck out was how close everyone is and how well they work together.
MAW first and foremost are friends that enjoy flying together, and that is true. Our common ground is this game and pride in our squad and skill level it and each of us can achieve.
What also builds, camaraderie, is the fact that it isn't the skill level that makes you a MAW. I guess you could say the first rule in recruiting is - are they cool and do they like and want to fly with others, we can teach them the skills if they are lacking. ( Oh yeah and they cant have vox that sounds like some one is castrating lambs. Pun intended lolh ) If any MAW needs help or training there is always another MAW, qualified, knowledgeable and more than willing to help.
The other part of being in such a large squad is there are always MAW on. Any time I log on there is at least one if not five or more MAW on at a time. The MAW are diversified, there are guys that fill every facet of this game. From fighter jock to jabo, buff to goon pilots. That’s the beauty of the MAW. I have to laugh when people think because there is a goon squad that, that is all they do. That is their job two nights a week for about four hours a night, should they choose to log in and fly at those times. I respect those guys a lot. Out flying a fighter in a goon is hard to do, but I have seen in done by the MAW.
I guess to make this long story short - Take everything you like about your squad and multiply it by 10 and you have the MAW.
As for the rest - I like running into the TAS and AKs and many others out there. It makes for some great knife fighting and really gets the blood going. It's always nice to see a BKs because you know your in the middle of the fight and you have some good sticks around you to help.
I and most of us know - most of the ribbing is all in fun and if it isn't don't take yourselves so seriously. In the end we are all dorks playing a kids game. Lets face it, no one is walking up to a girl and bragging that they are a computer pilot that belongs to a squad of other computer pilots with call signs and such. lol If they did she and all her friends would tell that person that they are a dork. lolh Dorks 8)
So All, I cant wait to log in and share the love as I shoot your prettythanges down 8)
masrs01 - M.A.W Blacksheep, XO
-
I am STILL SparticusMAW!!
and Apache is STILL a Post potato!!
-
Originally posted by Stringer
I am STILL SparticusMAW!!
and Apache is STILL a Post potato!!
I ain't done it!
-
Originally posted by Skuzzy
I cannot for the life of me understand people that attempt to dictate to others how the game should be played.
I like to think there is enough diversity to satisfy everyone. People that come to the board and make attempts to sway how everyone plays the game need a reality check.
The goal is simple: Have fun! If it means furballing, then furball, if it means missions, then play the missions, if it is strat, then play strat. Point being, no one has the right to tell others how to play.
If you enter a thread about strat, and you do not like strat, then why post in that thread (as an example)?
Let people make thier own choices and have thier own discussions. Sometimes it is apropo to keep your fingers from the keyboard. Just becasue you have an opinion, does not make it right.
Skuzzy,
The real crux here is not one trying to dictate how someone else should fly, but rather ... well beet1e's sig says it all :
"Game changes to tweak features, nudge settings and to otherwise influence gameplay as to benefit a certain playing style or group of players, to the detriment of all others = BAD."
By the way, I agree with this statement.
Ideas on how to tweak/nudge settings is where the rubber meets the road. There are active "watchdog" groups/individuals who are self-tasked with making sure that their part of the game, that they hold so dear, is not effected by ideas that tweak/nudge, which is cool.
It is the discussion of these tweaks/nudges that then spiral downward faster than a Yak with a Spit on its 6.
The bring the "fields closer" and "change V Bases to A Bases" ideas (tweak/nudges) were not trying to force anybody to change their ride or force them to fly a particualr way, rather they had been suggested to increase the fun level of one genre of the game. Simple as that ... right.
Hopefully we won't have to rehash the pros and cons of these ideas since they have already been implemented within Trinity and seem to have exhibited positive effects with no negative effects that I can see (BigIsles need to re-evaluate with these ideas in mind).
So all the nawing and thrashing that went about only furthered to divide genres'. In the future, when ideas are put forth, we should not judge the idea by the individual and let that cloud the situation, but rather just judge the idea. Preconception short circuts rational thoughts.
PS. Stringer ... I will send you a .sqdinvite tonight ... just setup SparticusMAW before 8 PM Eastern. ;)
-
Changing a terrain to force certain play styles is the same as mandating players to play a certain way.
Terrains need to be diverse and need to offer something different to keep people from playing the same game, over and over. What would be the point of making all terrains the same? No reason to change them if the gameplay balance between all the different types of players is not slightly altered.
If every map favored furballers, a large contingency of players would complain. Make the complainers happy and the furballers scream.
In terrains, it is a given, you will never get 100% approval on the design. It will never happen. Everytime we change terrains, the list of complaints about the next terrain is equal to the praises.
It is getting tiresome seeing detractors crawl out of the woodwork to ruin a good discussion though.
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Skuzzy - excellent post.
Hope you don't mind, but I'm adding what you said as a quote in my sig. I'm hoping Lazs and Nopoop et al will read it, understand, and learn.
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There ya go beet1e, stickin your finger in someone's eye again. You could have left it as ... Excellent (not excelent) post Skuzzy.
Lazs, Nopoop, myself, and others, in all honesty feel/felt that the "move bases closer" and "change V Bases to A Bases" ideas were not FORCING (this is the key word) you or anybody to play the "furball" game. Those ideas centered around enhancing the "furball" game, and at the same time, not destroying any other aspects of "the game".
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Slapshot! How embarrassing - a typo! -since corrected. Damn Trust Keyboard often drops a repeated letter. ;)
Originally posted by SlapShot
There ya go beet1e, stickin your finger in someone's eye again. You could have left it as ... Excellent (not excelent) post Skuzzy.
ROFL! Do you think those guys have meekly listened to what I've had to say? A cosy chat over tea and biscuits? I'm telling you, I've had all fingers and thumbs shoved in both my eyes by those guys. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
Originally posted by SlapShot
Lazs, Nopoop, myself, and others, in all honesty feel/felt that the "move bases closer" and "change V Bases to A Bases" ideas were not FORCING (this is the key word) you or anybody to play the "furball" game. Those ideas centered around enhancing the "furball" game, and at the same time, not destroying any other aspects of "the game".
Fair enough, but it would appear that Skuzzy did not agree with you. And neither did I.
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Originally posted by beet1e
...Fair enough, but it would appear that Skuzzy did not agree with you. And neither did I.
But both you and Skuzzy are wrong.
Having more airfields, airfields spawn GV's too ya know, forces nothing on anyone. In fact it provides more objects to pork, for those that are so inclined. It provides more opportunities for mor people to do what the enjoy most.
HT may not want it that way, but that is not the same thing.
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Originally posted by beet1e
One is that the people who have from time to time suggested that I would never be happy unless everyone were to fly MY way are the very same people who denounce others who do not fly THEIR way.
Note that "furballing" and "furballing players" have essentially no effect on what passes for "strat" here. The converse is obviously not the case.
We've made a "tank town" for GV-centric players. Why can't there be some sort of mechanism that allows "furballers" the same courtesy?
That's the intent of what I've seen from the "fur" crowd; I've yet to see a "furballer" that gave a hoot what the "strat crowd" was doing as long as there was someplace on the map for a decent fight.
In short, the "furs" have no problem with the "strats" as long as they're still provided the opportunity to hold a "Fur Ball".
Again, it appears to me that the converse is not true.
Originally posted by beet1e
And another anomaly I notice is that the ones who decry organisation/teamwork/rank/chain of command etc. are the ones who positively embrace uniformity by way of their Avatar pics!
Well, I think if you puzzle a while on that anomaly, it may eventually come to you.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Slapshot! How embarrassing - a typo! -since corrected. Damn Trust Keyboard often drops a repeated letter. ;) ROFL! Do you think those guys have meekly listened to what I've had to say? A cosy chat over tea and biscuits? I'm telling you, I've had all fingers and thumbs shoved in both my eyes by those guys. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
Fair enough, but it would appear that Skuzzy did not agree with you. And neither did I.
Just wanted to poke at your spelling the same way you felt inclined to poke at Sax's spelling of neutral ... remember !!! Again, you needed to poke your fingers in someone's eye when it really wasn't needed.
Fair enough ... lol ... I would tend to believe that those ideas were deemed sound and viable by NB and HTC due to the fact that they HAVE already been implemented in Trinity. Fair enough ?
Skuzzy, I believe, didn't disagree with what I said, nor do I believe that his post was pointed in my direction. The thrust of his thread seemed to be pointed at the general population.
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Originally posted by Toad
Note that "furballing" and "furballing players" have essentially no effect on what passes for "strat" here. The converse is obviously not the case.
We've made a "tank town" for GV-centric players. Why can't there be some sort of mechanism that allows "furballers" the same courtesy?
That's the intent of what I've seen from the "fur" crowd; I've yet to see a "furballer" that gave a hoot what the "strat crowd" was doing as long as there was someplace on the map for a decent fight.
In short, the "furs" have no problem with the "strats" as long as they're still provided the opportunity to hold a "Fur Ball".
Again, it appears to me that the converse is not true.
Well, I think if you puzzle a while on that anomaly, it may eventually come to you.
This tarded topic has reached the level of naming game play styles with metaphorical names? Lol, wow.
"And the Furs and Strats were all kept equal, by hatchet, axe, and saw."
You didn’t get that goof Toad, I know, just ask Fatty of you want to know. Your as miffed as me knowing Laz pours over my stats. It's equally as weird.
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Pretty obvious what you don't get. :D
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creamo... no need to "pour" over your stats... you don't have much there.
skuzzy.. I agree with you . Would you not say that the large new maps were indeed a change in the way the fields were spaced? The maps were designed with no thought to a large segment of the community. The furballers... the maps promote only one style of gameplay. late war fast planes and steamrollering and gangbanging.
A "change" to these maps would actually only be a step back to the better gameplay for all (more choice) that we had with the smaller maps. It is not just the dedicated furballers that complain about these maps... they are bad for even the occassional furballer... they remove the choice you claim to espouse.
Think about it... as toad says... how does moving fields closer together, changing vehicle bases to airbases and adding cv's hurt the gameplay of anyone? The reverse is obviously not true... the big maps are proof. moving the fields farther apart makes for and early war/slow plane unfriendly arena.
Note the "challenge" this month was in Pee 47's (might as well been in ee 51's or dee 9's) It wasn't the "zeke challenge" the arenas are idealy suited right now for hiding, cherry picking and steamrollering in a few planes that are fast.
The arenas not only remove gameplay and variety of gameplay but they promote the lack of variety in planes used. Why bother to model new early war planes for the MA?
The maps are moving away from choice.... we are advocating moving back toward choice. those who would oppose us are the enemy of choice... look at their gameplay style... these are the guys you don't invite to parties. The coin and stamp collectors of flight sims.... the sky accountants.
lazs
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Originally posted by Revvin
The same small group continually belittle anyone who does'nt fly their way, you either fly too high, too timid or you attack fields or strat objects. It's a sad reflection on the community and even sadder that these types of post are allowed to continue by HTC when their only function is to cause division of the community. There's enough room in the arena's for all of us to play the way we like so why bring the battle from the arena's into the forums?
It has always been this way, it ain't gonna change. It isn't good for the game, but it is allowed - free country I guess.
(Even when as i replied I note laz making fun of this month's challenge. Nice huh?)
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so znth....why do YOU supposse that the "challenge" was in pee 47's and not zekes? Do you see what the challenge does to the arena? believe me... the real ridicule of the "challenge" happened in the MA where p47's were taunted by allmost everyone for their timid cherry picking.
Why not have a 262 challenge? do you not think such a challenge would ruin gameplay for a large segment of MA dwellers? It's a matter of degree.
A "zeke" challenge would not harm anyones enjoyment of the arena. I feel it would also make those who don't normally fly slow planes aware of how biased the maps are getting against slow planes.
lazs
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And then Humpy The Wonder Pooch (a.k.a. Laz) lived happily ever after in The Land Of Ankle.
The End
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Lazs - I despair of you. On the one hand you claim to champion the interests of all, with your "More Choices" manifesto. But this is a smokescreen. Later on, you are dismissive and condemnatory of some players.
those who would oppose us are the enemy of choice... look at their gameplay style... these are the guys you don't invite to parties. The coin and stamp collectors of flight sims.... the sky accountants.
What you really mean is that you would help the cause of only those who agree with you, and fly YOUR way. Who it the "us" you speak of in that sentence? Well, I have news for you. Those "sky accountants" and "coin collectors" pay their $14.95/month just like you. But that's not good enough for you, is it? You're really only interested in helping out the guys that will play YOUR way - nobody else, and all others are consigned to your virtual dustbin of sky accountants etc. Next time, set light to a tyre or tire. They smoke well. This smokescreen was so pathetic anyone could see through it.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
...It is getting tiresome seeing detractors crawl out of the woodwork to ruin a good discussion though...
...Changing a terrain to force certain play styles is the same as mandating players to play a certain way...
Hmmmm… The title was where “Fur and Strat” collide right?
Basically the only thing I see is “furballers’ and straters’ colliding. An exchange in passionate beliefs by both groups, I think you’re getting a little to PC and need not to worry about it so much sheesh.
Changing a terrain will mandate how people play? Yeah, like making it 50 miles to a fight? Seems like you’re pretty much mandating how I play. Switching vehicle fields out with airfields is not going to change the game of the strat player. Or at least I fail to see the great impact it would have on the “war”.
MAW’s,
In the end of it all if you guys are together and doing what you like as a group and enjoy it great! That is indeed the purpose of a game is to after all have fun and enjoy it with your friends. Your size and squad directives have definitely made an impact on game play and the tide at which the war turns.
Having more fields and being closer together though would not diminish that impact on the “war”. It only gives more options for another player who isn’t interested in the shifting of the front lines.
I’m not sure if I consider myself a furballer but I certainly lost interest in the tides of war a long time ago. That may have been a result from my drop in online time. I joined the 13th after or near the end of the “furball” experiment that persists somewhat today. Anything lower than 10K and I feel like I’m walking. I only started agreeing with all the “furball” changes when I log on for an hour and it takes me 10-15 minutes to find a fight.
I’m in it for the fight and so are quite a few others I would imagine. Even when I was waging war I wanted to take a break and find a good fight. Now imagine you’re only on 10 hours instead of 40 (like I was). Where’s the fight man, that’s all I’m concerned with and I really don’t see how that affects your war.
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I remember this giant fight on NDIsle one day. A CV was right off the shore of the airfield just south of it. There were perhaps 30 people on both sides in one of the biggest furballs I've ever seen. As the CV got nearer to the field, the gunners leveled the base and the aircraft eventually got the ack at the field. There was some vulching, but the numbers were so high that people still got airborne. The guys showing up with P-51's loved this becaused every pass they made on the runway resulted in a kill before they climbed back above the fight.
At least 10 C-47s tried to make it into the field but the numbers were just too great for them to launch drunks. Then the vulchers started getting the upper hand. Me and my squadies loaded up jabo fighters and took out the port and captured it, meeting minimal defenses (comparitively) as only 5 or 6 fighters broke off to engage us... most still tried vulching at the field. We got the CV 5 minutes later.
Man... those people who were there just for the furball were pissed. We ruined their fun and they spent the next half an hour on channel 1 and the next 3 days on the BBS telling us about it. Nevermind that the field they were attacking was leveled and de-acked and being vulched...
Strat and furballing is not exclusive. They compliment each other. Defending/attacking the extremes makes both sides look ignorant.
MiniD
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Zippatuh
I agree with you whole heartedly. This all started due to MAW's killing of a CV we saw as detrimental to our country. We had no idea the CV was there for the edification of furballers. As I explained earlier, on squad nights, MAW either defends our country or attacks the enemies country in an attempt to take their bases. On this particular night (a squad night) we had just taken a base very near where this enemy CV was located and saw it as a threat. I sent our bomber squad to kill it. This was not an attack for points or for glory or to stop the furballers. It was simply an attack to get rid of a threat. Now, I for one love furballs. Several times I've brought up the subjuct of a fightertown for these maps. Why not place 3 bases, uncapturable, no bombers, no GVs with 35k to 50k mountains surrounding them right in the middle of the map next to GV town just for the furballers. I'd spend a lot of non squad nights there I guarantee you. It would also please the furballers and in no way impact those who prefer to attack and take enemy bases. Skuzzy or HT, you should look into this. This would please both sides.
40DogMAW
CO MAW Headquarters
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Zip, you took what I said from a perspective I was not intending. My comments were very general in nature.
The "fighter town" idea in the MA will not work. Once you lock some fields from being able to be captured, then there is no way to win the war (i.e. reset the terrain).
If I am following this correctly, it appears some would have an airplane only terrain, with no strat, with fields close together to expedite the initial contact. Is this close?
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If I am following this correctly, it appears some would have an airplane only terrain, with no strat, with fields close together to expedite the initial contact. Is this close?
Sounds like the DA to me.
Wab
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Get thee hence unto the Duelling Arena, thou noble Knight of the Air, and the thou shalt Joust and Melee unto the contentment of thy innermost heart. Verily.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Zip, you took what I said from a perspective I was not intending. My comments were very general in nature.
The "fighter town" idea in the MA will not work. Once you lock some fields from being able to be captured, then there is no way to win the war (i.e. reset the terrain).
If I am following this correctly, it appears some would have an airplane only terrain, with no strat, with fields close together to expedite the initial contact. Is this close?
Not even. Additionally, those who subsequently used your current remarks as a platform are wrong as well.
We want parity. Simple. AH is now too far to the left.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Zip, you took what I said from a perspective I was not intending. My comments were very general in nature.
The "fighter town" idea in the MA will not work. Once you lock some fields from being able to be captured, then there is no way to win the war (i.e. reset the terrain).
If I am following this correctly, it appears some would have an airplane only terrain, with no strat, with fields close together to expedite the initial contact. Is this close?
Skuzzy ... answer me this ...
If a section of a map were to have 40,000 ft mountains all around it ... kinda like a volcano ... and it was off in an obscure corner of the map.
Inside this volcano are 3 airfields, equi-distance from each other and nestled up against the volcano wall. Flight distance to each base or the center of the volcano is almost 1 sector apart.
Each of these airfields ARE capturable, BUT ack is indestructable at both the airfields and the towns. That way there is no de-acking an airfield and town, so if drunks were dropped, they would always be killed and vulching would be discouraged. In effect, these base are virtually un-capturable, but logically within the game they are capturable. Is ack strength and ack destruction settable on a field basis or is it arena based ?
Now inorder for an MA war to be won, one country needs to be reduced to 1 field. So, if were down to 2 fields, 1 of those fields would be in the regular map area, and 1 would be in the volcano ... once the airfield/vehicle base was captured in the regular map area, the war has been won.
Is this possible ? Does this fall within the game architecture ?
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Skuzzy ... answer me this ...
If a section of a map were to have 40,000 ft mountains all around it ... kinda like a volcano ... and it was off in an obscure corner of the map.
Inside this volcano are 3 airfields, equi-distance from each other and nestled up against the volcano wall. Flight distance to each base or the center of the volcano is almost 1 sector apart.
Each of these airfields ARE capturable, BUT ack is indestructable at both the airfields and the towns. That way there is no de-acking an airfield and town, so if drunks were dropped, they would always be killed and vulching would be discouraged. In effect, these base are virtually un-capturable, but logically within the game they are capturable. Is ack strength and ack destruction settable on a field basis or is it arena based ?
Now inorder for an MA war to be won, one country needs to be reduced to 1 field. So, if were down to 2 fields, 1 of those fields would be in the regular map area, and 1 would be in the volcano ... once the airfield/vehicle base was captured in the regular map area, the war has been won.
Is this possible ? Does this fall within the game architecture ?
Dang slap. Thats it! What possible reason would anyone have a problem with that? Good show old bean. (thats for beet1e)
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Lazs quote: "so znth....why do YOU supposse that the "challenge" was in pee 47's and not zekes?"
Because the guy that thought of the challenge is a P47 enthusiast, you clown, and for no other reason. Lazs, you try to find an anti-furballer view in just about everything. Get over yourself, more and more you are just a crybaby who hasn't things exactly his way.
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Skuzzy ... answer me this ...
Are these fields within a zone or are they exempt from the zone re-supply logic?
Ack is undestructable. Is fuel? Are hangar? I assume no GV's, no buffs, no rockets, no bombs. But fuel can be take out with just guns so invulnerable fuel too?
Apache, I'm not against closer fields. HT's guideline is 0.75-1.5 sectors between fields. I think 0.75 works best. 0.5 would be too close.
But you know very well that isn't Laz's only argument. He already wants to remove GV fields. Next, lets remove bombers. Make fuel and hangar's invulerable. Remove GV's all together. Remove all model of planes that Laz can't catch in what ever model he likes to fly. Disallow any plane that flys higher than he likes to fly.
Laz won't be satisfied until he's turned the MA into the DA. The argument concerning field spacing is merely the thin end of the wedge.
Wab
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You know, Laz is on target with the core of his argument. You can always log on and do a strat mission but finding a good furball can be difficult at times. Of course he's on his own with the rest of that BS...
Magoo
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I hesitate to speak for Laz but I will speak for myself. I think he and I agree on a lot of things though, after having discussed AH with him quite a bit.
I don't think we need to "remove" GV fields. I just don't see the reason for "GV Only" fields. Why not make all fields capable of launching BOTH aircraft and GV's? Is there something special about GV fields? Something that would be prevented by having all fields capable of launching both aircraft and gv's?
It's no more about wanting the MA turned into the DA than having a "tank town" in Trinity is about turning the MA into the DA.
Why do we not hear people telling the GV players to "go to the DA"? Why did they get a "special feature" GV play area when the DA was already available to them?
As Apache said, it's about parity and that's all it's about.
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My question was sincere. Telling me it's wrong and nothing more is pointless and does not serve to migrate the discussion.
Ok,..parity. Someone want to explain what that means? Parity between what?
Setting a mini-arena within an arena would require redefining the current code/game. With only 3 fields, how would it work with 100 players vieing for the airspace? or even 50?
Spillage would seem to occur.
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This is the reality of it all......
HTC designed this game for us....it sits here offerring up options....folks should choose their medicine and have fun.
This game is what we make of it....it's that simple.
Having come from both schools of gameplay, one is not more legitimate than the other....folks just have a preference. Mine is currently action and may it come fast and furious. I understand the strat guys and the MAWS discipline on squad nights....the 13th TAS did that for years. We're just in a different place now and hope only for an opportunity to enjoy the aspect of gameplay which we prefer when we logon.
The furballers choice is a bit more limited when the arena leans towards the strat side of life...it's not the end of the world for us, it's just not quite as fun.
I've personally dealt with it by pulling 1 or 2 from the edges of these massive base capture thingies and fighting on the fringe...it's not my preference, but it works well enough.
It should all be about what turns ya on....it's your $15 a month. Just don't get upset with those of us who see it as the other white meat.
Cyas Up!:)
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Skuzzy,
If you've been following this ongoing discussion over the last weeks/months, there's no need for a big rehash.
Basically, from my point of view, I'd be categorized as a "furballer".
I don't have time anymore to play for hours and hours; I'm lucky to jump on and get 45 minutes, 90 is amazingly long for me anymore.
I don't care who wins the war, I have absolutely no use for "perks" as I like to fly early/mid war planes that are unperked.
So, all I want when I log on is a decent chance at a good fight with some like-minded people.
I suspect this is what the "tank town" feature provides for GV guys on the trinity map.
Now, my assessment of the "strat" currently available in AH is that it has generated a tactic of reducing fuel avaliable along the front lines and then mounting massive raids against those fields one at a time in sequence.
Yes, a generalization, but pretty much what I see when I log in most US evenings.
The problem here is that with widely spread fields, the EARLIER aircraft are fuel limited. They have the small fuel tanks and the short range. So, it's not too productive to try to fly a long way to a fight.
Generally then, you have a choice of flying to a less active area and running out of gas shortly after you get there OR you can up "under the steamroller".
Neither of those two choices is very conducive to a fun hour in AH before real life chores intervene.
It's a problem, no doubt.
But there is nothing.. NOTHING.. that the furball crowd does that restricts the strat players.
There is nothing that the furball crowd does that restricts the GV players, particularly in tank town.
However, strat can and does seriously affect the chances of a furball player being able to log in and have a quick 30-45 minute funfest.
So, that's the long answer to the short question of parity.
If GV players derserve a "tank town" why can't the furball players get a similar opportunity? It absolutely would not affect the strategic game as currently played in AH.
And if I'm going to be told to "go to the DA", are we going to take tank town off Trinity and tell them to go to the DA as well?
A side note to this, of course, is the continual "not enough diversity in the planes we see" and/or "perk the big four" threads that continually appear.
Something to ponder. If you'd like to see a greater variety of aircraft up and reducing fuel to 25% severely limits the "usability" of about 1/2 the planeset then maybe you ought to leave the fuel alone, eh?
As a personal example, I really don't fly the P-51 much anymore. But when fuel everywhere is 25%, I take it because you can actually get a fight or two in under those conditions in a -51.
I'd prefer to take an F4U-1, maybe an FM-2 or the C-205. But 25% fuel pretty much makes that a waste of time.
So maybe the current "blow up the fuel" strat is part of the "plane diversity" problem, eh?
Just a thought.
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
Are these fields within a zone or are they exempt from the zone re-supply logic?
Ack is undestructable. Is fuel? Are hangar? I assume no GV's, no buffs, no rockets, no bombs. But fuel can be take out with just guns so invulnerable fuel too?
Wab
They could be within a zone. Can't see any reason why not.
Ack indestructable : YES.
Fuel indestructable : could be but doesn't have to be.
Hangers indestructable : could be but doesn't have to be.
GV's : Sure why not ... they could be used to help beat off vulchers. There would be no spawn points to the other bases. You must drive ALL the way to the other base(s), only to get wacked by the indestructable ack ... sounds fruitless.
Rockets - Bombs : Sure ... bring 'em to the furball. Might be fun ... then again it might not be .. your choice.
Fuel : I guess it could be taken out, but more than likely not. The indestructable ack could discourage this, plus you have to get by the furballer's to get to the fuel.
One thing, if this were possible, those that would participate in this area would have the understanding that its meant for "furballin'" and if you go pork the other field(s), then there will be no one to furball with, so you have cut off your nose to spite your face.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Ok,..parity. Someone want to explain what that means? Parity between what?
Well this has been explained in several different ways in numerous other threads and I can understand that you haven’t read, or even wanted to, all of them.
There are extremes in both directions. Full realism, 20 hour flights, as muck said in the locked thread “Put on my flightsuit... Inspect official MAW uniform in mirror”, that last one got me pretty good :D. I digress, and the other side, well, lazs and life is only for the kill everything else is bunk.
What the parity I think the general, more central, view of things is trying to accommodate the furballers a little. Really the only thing you have to do is as Wab said, keeping airfields about 1 to .75 sectors apart and changing out the vehicle fields with airfields. I think 1.5 is too far and .5 is defiantly to close.
Doing this gives a greater chance to find a fight when things are bleak. On certain maps if a few bases are taken and the fuel is porked at a few others it’s 2 sectors to find the fight. If there were more air bases and they were closer together this wouldn’t happen as much.
The war is still there to be fought there’s just more “strategic” structures to take out now. Actually we’re asking to enhance the whole game, strategy as well, not just furballing ;).
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Fuel : I guess it could be taken out, but more than likely not. The indestructable ack could discourage this, plus you have to get by the furballer's to get to the fuel.
If bombs and rockets are enabled, and fuels and hangar's are not indestructible, and the field dependent on zone supply that might be interrupted if the zone master is captured; it would be a trivial matter to keeps the fields closed almost permanently.
Wab
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
My question was sincere. Telling me it's wrong and nothing more is pointless and does not serve to migrate the discussion.
Ok,..parity. Someone want to explain what that means? Parity between what?
Setting a mini-arena within an arena would require redefining the current code/game. With only 3 fields, how would it work with 100 players vieing for the airspace? or even 50?
Spillage would seem to occur.
Skuzzy,
How would, what I described as a separate furball area, require redefining the current code/game ?
From what I described, it would appear that is would fit within the current architecture. If it doesn't then say so, and not that you have to, but an explanation of why it wouldn't work would be nice.
I have flown into furballs that have had 50 or more planes vieing for the same airspace ... how is that a a problem ? Spillage ... I don't understand.
I am not trying to be a smartass here Skuzzy ... I am not demanding answers, only asking. I hope u understand.
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
If bombs and rockets are enabled, and fuels and hangar's are not indestructible, and the field dependent on zone supply that might be interrupted if the zone master is captured; it would be a trivial matter to keeps the fields closed almost permanently.
Wab
I would have to agree. You know more about map making than I and what it takes to create an MA Map. Is it allowable to have indestructable fuel and hangers ? If they can, then make them indestructable.
The thing that I would surmise, is that some sort of unwritten rules - Gentleman's agreements, would reign in this area. Porking fields would be discouraged by all countries and pilots and with that, there shouldn't be a problem for the most part.
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Is it allowable to have indestructable fuel and hangers ?
Are you asking me if the editor supports it or whether HT would allow it?
The thing that I would surmise, is that some sort of unwritten rules - Gentleman's agreements, would reign in this area.
In the immortal words of a goodfriend of mine:
"chuckle, chuckle, chuckle..."
Wab
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
In the immortal words of a goodfriend of mine:
"chuckle, chuckle, chuckle..."
Wab
Anyone I know? ;)
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Are you asking me if the editor supports it or whether HT would allow it?
I guess both ... I have limited map making experience, but I believe that the objects can be made indestructable ... Its the "would HT allow it" is the more pressing of the 2 and the hardest.
The thing that I would surmise, is that some sort of unwritten rules - Gentleman's agreements, would reign in this area.
I know its a strech Wab, but ya gotta start somewhere.
Rather than play point / counter-point here, tell me, in your opinion, where the failings are. Again, I am not trying to be a smartass ... just need some answers.
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Slapshot-
You know I hold you in highest regard as a player, as a squadmate, and as a friend.
So you know I'm not being a smartass either, but I have to ask..
If the Main Arena is not condusive to quick furballs, why not use the dueliing arena?
It seems like the DA has everything the furballer could want. Now I could be wrong, as my experience there is extremely limited.
I am simply asking a question and not initmating that all furballers go to the DA.
Another thought. INstead of working so hard to lobby to change the game, what if someone hosted a type of KOTH event every night in the SA? Is this possible?
Once again, just shooting some ideas from the hip. I've got no problem with the Arena within Arena idea, but if I can suggest something that might be easier to impliment, the furs may get what they want that much faster.
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Rather than play point / counter-point here, tell me, in your opinion, where the failings are.
I don't think there particularly are any.
Wab
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Skuzzy,
Is the ability of one suicide typhy pilot to pork all the fuel at an airfield parity?
Is it logical?
Does it promote fun?
Is it good "strategy"?
What, if anything, does it inhibit?
Does it matter?
Parity, it seems to me, is not part of the MA in any fashion. Why should it be an issue now?
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Slapshot-
You know I hold you in highest regard as a player, as a squadmate, and as a friend.
So you know I'm not being a smartass either, but I have to ask..
If the Main Arena is not condusive to quick furballs, why not use the dueliing arena?
It seems like the DA has everything the furballer could want. Now I could be wrong, as my experience there is extremely limited.
I am simply asking a question and not initmating that all furballers go to the DA.
Another thought. INstead of working so hard to lobby to change the game, what if someone hosted a type of KOTH event every night in the SA? Is this possible?
Once again, just shooting some ideas from the hip. I've got no problem with the Arena within Arena idea, but if I can suggest something that might be easier to impliment, the furs may get what they want that much faster.
Good questions Muck ...
Just say this idea was implemented ...
I am happily furballin away and over squad vox comes ...
Muck: I am almost on target. I could use a gunner right now. Lots of bad guys with some high cap.
I could then choose to auger and help you out. If I am in the DA, you are SOL when it comes to getting my help.
Cornwell: Hey ... I am in a Tiger with 18 kills and my engine is knocked out and I am low on ammo. Don't know how much longer I can hold them off. Can someone please bring me some vehicle supplies.
I could then choose to auger and help him out. If I am in the DA, he is SOL when it comes to getting my help.
Amreo: Hey there is a CV just off the coast and I need some help beating these guys back.
I could then choose to auger and help him out. If I am in the DA, he is SOL when it comes to getting my help.
Its the disconnect from the squad that bothers me the most at the thought of going to the DA to furball.
Hope this helps !!!
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Is the ability of one suicide typhy pilot to pork all the fuel at an airfield parity?
Where was your bar-cap?
Wab
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Flying bar-cap would be gayer than flying a suicide pork typhy.
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Flying bar-cap would be gayer than flying a suicide pork typhy.
So rather than defending your airfields, you simply want HT to make them invulnerable?
Wab
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Good questions Muck ...
Just say this idea was implemented ...
I am happily furballin away and over squad vox comes ...
Muck: I am almost on target. I could use a gunner right now. Lots of bad guys with some high cap.
I could then choose to auger and help you out. If I am in the DA, you are SOL when it comes to getting my help.
Cornwell: Hey ... I am in a Tiger with 18 kills and my engine is knocked out and I am low on ammo. Don't know how much longer I can hold them off. Can someone please bring me some vehicle supplies.
I could then choose to auger and help him out. If I am in the DA, he is SOL when it comes to getting my help.
Amreo: Hey there is a CV just off the coast and I need some help beating these guys back.
I could then choose to auger and help him out. If I am in the DA, he is SOL when it comes to getting my help.
Its the disconnect from the squad that bothers me the most at the thought of going to the DA to furball.
Hope this helps !!!
Excellent response. Well said Slapshot.
Splitting the community is not the goal.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Good questions Muck ...
Just say this idea was implemented ...
I am happily furballin away and over squad vox comes ...
Muck: I am almost on target. I could use a gunner right now. Lots of bad guys with some high cap.
I could then choose to auger and help you out. If I am in the DA, you are SOL when it comes to getting my help.
Cornwell: Hey ... I am in a Tiger with 18 kills and my engine is knocked out and I am low on ammo. Don't know how much longer I can hold them off. Can someone please bring me some vehicle supplies.
I could then choose to auger and help him out. If I am in the DA, he is SOL when it comes to getting my help.
Amreo: Hey there is a CV just off the coast and I need some help beating these guys back.
I could then choose to auger and help him out. If I am in the DA, he is SOL when it comes to getting my help.
Its the disconnect from the squad that bothers me the most at the thought of going to the DA to furball.
Hope this helps !!!
I kinda figured that's what it was, but is that simply your personal position, or is that the case for most furballers? What I'm asking is, I get the impression most of the most vocal furballers would not be intereted in resupplying, or gunning a buff, etc. From what I can gather, there are entire squadrons that would relocate to the DA and thereby not lose contact with their friends.
I imagine this would involve some massive coding, but what if there was a way to transmit text across Arenas?
Or what about using something like AOL IM to message across the arenas?
Would this be feasible?
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Splitting the community is not the goal.
No, merely Balkanizing it into partitioned "arenas-within-arenas".
Wab
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Originally posted by Apache
Excellent response. Well said Slapshot.
Splitting the community is not the goal.
I don't know about you, Apache, but I'm feeling a serious rift in the community already.
We've got 2 firmly entrenched camps here, and after reading Skuzzys reply, I don't see how these differences can be adjudicated.
I could be wrong, but I feel like we already have 2 seperate communities.
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hmm.... and to think that I get told all the time that there is no need for me to express my views since everyone allready knows em... Doesn't seem that many do.
Let's go step by step... let's restore the parity (strat/timidity action) of the smaller maps to the big maps by getting the field distances closer.. an airfield 3/4 of a sector away from a vehicle field is NOT close fields. two airfields 3/4 to on sector apart ARE close fields. we can only have so many fields so change a lot of the vehicle fields to combined air/vehicle fields on the big maps.... add more cv's.
that would probly get things back to the way they were in the small maps but... I would eventually like to see things a step further...
Carve about 1/4 or 1/3 of the large map out and make those 14-28 fields early war only filelds with a seperate reset HT told me this was possible. 40k mountain range ringing it and at least 2 sectors of no mans land. You could seemlessly jump between different types of fighting or strat or whatever. allways be in touch with the rest of the community and allow everyone the most amount of choice.
to prove that I am right..... hubert, jakal, beetle and steve all disagree strongly. that should give me some credibility.
lazs
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I like numbers. If the DA consistently had 100 or so people in it, I’d probably go there.
Also, I don’t like the “arena in an arena” idea. Just make more air bases and move them a little closer.
It’s all about the action, instant and at any time. Having events or scheduled times for furballing isn’t very conducive to “log on and kill”.
Any other way and I wouldn’t get the chance to kill strat dweebs :D.
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and deja... I wouldn't mind losing the cv or the field it was by so much if the map had other opportunities for action. It's just with these actionless maps yu start to get possesive of any fun that comes your way... more cv's help.
I believe that the changes nobaddy made are for the better. I have seen no complaints from the strat guys.
lazs
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
No, merely Balkanizing it into partitioned "arenas-within-arenas".
Wab
Divided, agreed, hostile...no. I hold no ill will toward anyone in the community.
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
So rather than defending your airfields, you simply want HT to make them invulnerable?
Wab
Where did I say I wanted them invulnerable? There was a discussion of parity, which I wrongly attributed to Skuzzy, and I simply asked if the abililty of one guy to kill the resources of many with very little effort was "parity".
I will defend an airfield. I love defense. I will not sit above it at 20k feet in the hopes of catching a pork and auger pilot in his dive.
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Don't judge what I say to mean I am taking any sides. My interests lie in what makes AH fun for the community, as a whole, and not any one part of the community.
I may play devils advocate just to try and cover the bases, because they need covering.
An arena-in-an-arena has to many potential problems. Relying on a "gentlemen's" agreement will not work. Putting 50-100 planes in a fixed small area would appear to counter the furballs as everyone would be looking in the eyes of a bad guy with every take-off. Not getting off the end of the runway would seem to be frustrating to me.
I understand the time constraint issue. Only having an hour or so to play and wanting to make the most of it. Completely understandable.
Moving fields around in different arrangements might work (i.e. different distances). Of course, that requires a terrain rework. Lot of time to do that.
Maybe clumps of fields close together with a sector separating the clumps from other clumps.
Just thinking out loud.
Oh,..there is no mechanism, in the game currently, that would allow clumps of fields to be reset. A reset affects the entire map.
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I get the impression most of the most vocal furballers would not be intereted in resupplying, or gunning a buff, etc. From what I can gather, there are entire squadrons that would relocate to the DA and thereby not lose contact with their friends.
Muck ... I believe that there are more occasional "furballers", like myself, that do belong to squads, than there are that are strickly furballers like the BKs'. So all the reasons that I gave, I would think, would apply to them also.
If it requires coding changes, then I am not for it.
We have the ability to make maps 256 miles square. There is nothing saying that all that space has to be dedicated to the war effort. One could utilize good size chunks of these maps and make these specialized areas WITHOUT ruining anybodies fun and they could all co-exist within the same arena.
Its would be like going to a Circus. If I don't want to watch the Clown act in the Center Ring, then I can turn to one of the side rings and watch the acrobats, or maybe the elephants. I don't want to have to leave the tent to go catch another act.
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
No, merely Balkanizing it into partitioned "arenas-within-arenas".
Wab
SkuzzyAn arena-in-an-arena has to many potential problems.
[/b]
We already essentially have that situation on Trinity in "tank town".
Yet that seems to be viewed as a good thing....... no one tells the Trinity Tank Town players to "go to the DA".
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Toad, the area of trinity called "tank town" is up for grabs. What I am reading about a furball area would require other players to stay away from it, unless you want to furball.
People won't stay away from it and that is why it would create more issues than it would solve. Tank town is up for grabs by anyone wanting to do anything. No holds barred, as it were.
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no one tells the Trinity Tank Town players to "go to the DA".
Well, I haven't played in tank town yet.
Does it have invulnerable ack?
Invulnerable fuel and hangars?
Is it separate from the Zone resupply system?
Is it uncapturable?
Wab
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Lazs, I don't necessarily disagree with everything you say. Let me be clear what I and, based on other's comments, many people think of you: You whine and complain so much, always find some petty, negative thing to say, that your views hold little credence. You speak of credibility. Your credibility is long destroyed by your pettiness and whining.
Your tears and whining over the Frenchy contest are a perfect example: You whine about not having a zeke contest like it is some sort of conspiracy. The fact is, a jug pilot came up with the idea, that's it. so it's a jug contest. Instead of squeaking and moaning that there isn't a zeke contest, why not just get one started? Simply, you have something negative or deragatory to say about pretty much everything and you somehow think that there is some secret society of anti-furballers. You want your voice to carry a little weight? Stop pissing and moaning, belittling others simply because they don't fly an FM2 in little tight circles til they die or that they don't think this is the be all, end all of skill/enjoyment.
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Ever start a thread....and then regret it?
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No, but Tank Town is ringed by high mountains that essentially isolate it from everything else. Yah, other airborne elements can get there, but at a great cost of time.. in short, it's not worth the effort.
I think, if you look closely at what most of the "furball" crowd is asking for, it is something similar to that.
Just a "furball" area that is somewhat isolated from other game elements. I don't think anyone wants to prevent the "strat" guys from having their fun. They just want an opportunity to have a little fun themselves and the current "strat" in the MA makes plain old hair on fire furballing pretty tough to find.
I don't think you have to have:
invulnerable ack, invulnerable fuel and hangars, separate from the Zone resupply system, or uncapturable fields?
How about an ocean
(I think just CV action would be acceptable to furball types.... it's the action that intrigues, not the particular plane )
isolated by a high mountain range similar to tank town
(but it could be a linear range that just sliced off a part of the map)
with three ports and three carriers in it, one to each country.
Doesn't have to be big; in fact the ports could be on tiny little postage stamps of land in a medium size ocean. There'd be no where to sail except to a fight, really. No GV spawns to any other little postage stamp, either.
Now you've got a place where GV's are essentially port defense only. No really "heavy" bombers are available from the CV's themselves and buffs from the rest of the map have the mountain barrier just like Tank Town provides.
What's left is CV battles and port capture. Even if a CV gets sunk, since it's a relatively small ocean, as soon as it respawns, the action starts almost immediately.
Just throwing this out off the top of my head; haven't thought about it in depth....
But I'd certainly find this attractive. I could live with just CV planes if I could jump in and find some quick action.
Might be best to have two ports/two CV's per country... I don't know. But I think this would be a start.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Toad, the area of trinity called "tank town" is up for grabs. What I am reading about a furball area would require other players to stay away from it, unless you want to furball.
People won't stay away from it and that is why it would create more issues than it would solve. Tank town is up for grabs by anyone wanting to do anything. No holds barred, as it were.
There is no requirement to stay away from it ... just make it difficult to get to it. If you want to fly an hour or so in a bomber to get into the volcano, only to be killed very quickly ... then go for it.
Tank Town was built for GV battles. Yes, planes make there way into that volcano, and yes there have been many complaints about that, but to no avail. I wouldn't imagine this area being any different.
If all the fields in the furball area were large bases, any bombers that make it there would be hard pressed to take out the whole base without dieing first. Even if they did, the one country would only have to wait for the field to regenerate and the fight is back on.
Issues ... Come on Skuzzy ... you guys seem to be able to deal with the constant perk this - perk that, collision model is porked, flight model is porked ... etc. without a great loss of blood. This would probably not generate any more issues than the current crys that jabos and bombers are flying into tank town and blowing stuff up.
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
Well, I haven't played in tank town yet.
Does it have invulnerable ack?
Invulnerable fuel and hangars?
Is it separate from the Zone resupply system?
Is it uncapturable?
Wab
There is no ack in Tank Town.
There is no fuel and hangers in Tank Town
No need to supply Tank Town ... it simply regenerates.
You can't capture Tank Town.
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Slap,..all someone has to do is to spawn at the field. No need to fly over the mountains/walls.
We can't get players to stop bombing and straffing A1 in the Training Arena. How are they going to be controlled in this concept. It is an issue that would have to be dealt with.
I made a suggestion. No merit?
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with three ports and three carriers in it, one to each country.
OK, lets look at that. Suppose right at the start of the rotation one side, late at night when there are few players on, sneak captures the other two ports. Now they own all three ports. And no one can reach them because its cut off by a mountain range. No matter what ever else happens on the rest of the map, that side can not be beaten down to one base because they’ll always have those 3 isolated ports that no one can get to.
Did ya think about that scenario?
I’ll give ya a clue: HT has.
Wab
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Isn't that the same situation in Tank Town now Wab?
Yeah, it could happen. Obviously someone HAS thought about it, eh?
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Slap,..all someone has to do is to spawn at the field. No need to fly over the mountains/walls.
We can't get players to stop bombing and straffing A1 in the Training Arena. How are they going to be controlled in this concept. It is an issue that would have to be dealt with.
I made a suggestion. No merit?
I'm sorry Skuzzy ... I must have missed the suggestion ... what was it ?
It tell you what ... If this idea were real and I saw a set of bombers upping from my airfield, it would be broadcast on "ALL" channel very quickly their position and heading (Unwritten Rule #1). I would imagine that they would never make it to target.
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Isn't that the same situation in Tank Town now Wab?
I don't know. Haven't played it.
Yeah, it could happen. Obviously someone HAS thought about it, eh?
You bet.
HT's first rule of terrain design was that any feature that could be exploited and abused would be. Sooner or later.
The first thing you should consider with any proposal is how many ways could a griefer abuse that.
Wab
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"The first thing you should consider with any proposal is how many ways could a griefer abuse that."
I think that is the direction that this thread has taken ... which is the right direction. Maybe it will prove that this idea does have its merits or maybe its all wet ... I just hope the dialog can remain in the same light as it is now.
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The BIG PICTURE that everyone has to fit thier ideas into is that SOMEONE CAN WIN THE WAR.
To do that ALL the bases of one country have to be destroyable and captureable.
If you have a fighter town off to one side in which the fields are NOT DESTROYABLE or CAPTUREABLE - then no one can WIN THE WAR.
So CAN you have a Figther Town with those limitations ?
Jordi
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jordi,
What is needed to win the war is to be able to reduce a countries bases down to 1. So what if its always the one base that is in the furball area. The bases in the furball area would be technically capturable to satisfy a hard requirement, but what would be wrong with making them almost impossible to capture.
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
The first thing you should consider with any proposal is how many ways could a griefer abuse that.
Wab
Obviously, HTC could set it up the same way they set up Tank Town. That's all I'm asking for, anyway.
Sure, there'll be griefers. There is in Tank Town.
I haven't played TT, btw, but it's usually "open for business" seems like.
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I don't see why a country couldn't win the war with a fighter town that is undestroyable. Isn't the arena setup to get 1 country down to 1 base. Well there's your 1 last base. The fighter town base. Seems simple enough to me.
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What if a "Night in the DA" were held just once to gauge people thoughts on it?
HTC could somehow "sponsor" it by putting a banner or something. Put a sticky up in the General Discussion forum. Maybe even email people. But it would need to be planned before hand.
Just once, it would be interesting to see how it worked and then things could be evaluated.
Worst scenario...those who say "sound like the DA" would be proven wrong.
Best scenario...the furball people will find a place that won't be effected by the strat people.
Pros: Close field, an arena already established, planes can be limited at certain fields, and i think fields are uncapturable.
Con: I can't think of any right at the moment.
Anyway, this would be an interesting experiment.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
The thing that I would surmise, is that some sort of unwritten rules - Gentleman's agreements, would reign in this area. Porking fields would be discouraged by all countries and pilots and with that, there shouldn't be a problem for the most part.
You have GOT to be kidding, or deluded. Did you read the thread a couple of weeks ago where somebody explained that they took all the bases in tank town so other players would be "forced" to play the strat game, and not "waste their time" in tank town?
Do you ever go to tank town, and wonder why somebody spends the time and effort to get b17s up to 20k, cross the mountains, and bomb the town?
For a "gentlemen's agreement" to exist, there must be a society of gentlemen with common values. We don't have that, here. We have several thousand players who all want to do it THEIR way.
God bless 'em. They have the right. The extremists on BOTH sides are absolutely wrong when they try to dictate the way others play the game.
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I agree with Geddy Lee
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Ever start a thread....and then regret it?
Every one of em:) But seeing as this is your baby...............
Steve , no ones listening.
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Sax, congratulations on your promotion to: I speak for everyone.
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We'll, I see no one is taking my suggestion seriously.
Oh well. :(
Some people just prefer to b*tch about things.
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Originally posted by Drunky
We'll, I see no one is taking my suggestion seriously.
Oh well. :(
Some people just prefer to b*tch about things.
I think it's a good idea, which means that it must be a BAD idea, if you pay attention to lassie's logic.
Heck, we could put up a map in the SEA to do the same thing, if the DA is (for some reason I can't figure out) unacceptable to the furballers. Have a cheese and whine party. That kind of thing.
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
Apache, I'm not against closer fields. HT's guideline is 0.75-1.5 sectors between fields. I think 0.75 works best. 0.5 would be too close.
But you know very well that isn't Laz's only argument. He already wants to remove GV fields. Next, lets remove bombers. Make fuel and hangar's invulerable. Remove GV's all together. Remove all model of planes that Laz can't catch in what ever model he likes to fly. Disallow any plane that flys higher than he likes to fly.
Laz won't be satisfied until he's turned the MA into the DA. The argument concerning field spacing is merely the thin end of the wedge.
I don't think I've ever agreed with any statement or set of statements on this BBS as much I agree with Wabbit here. Wabbit. :)
What I don't like about about the ideas coming from Lazs and the other fingerbobs is the stealth nature of these changes. Moving the fields closer together will be only a first step. Then it will be on to tinkering with "hardness" settings, perking bombs, moving buff fields further away - the list goes on.
Lazs claims to represent everyone in his "More choices for all" manifesto, but the man behind the mask is exposed as a fraud because anyone who doesn't fly his way is dismissed as a coin collector or sky accountant, or someone you would not want to invite to a party. That's a large swathe of players, by the way, and includes buff drivers (and their gunners), jabos, GV drivers, and anyone who flies above 5K. It smacks of "I'll fight for your cause you if you fly my way, otherwise you're an idiot" - plus all the usual snide remarks.
Just to remind some people, the vehicle only fields are great. They enable GVs to battle it out free from aircraft interference. If we do away with V-bases, GVs will have aircraft trying to bomb them wherever they go. The M3 capture vehicle will have no chance. It's easy to kill about 5 in one sortie - P38 with rockets, set salvo to 2, and away you go.
Many have asked why the furballers don't go to the DA. Furious once gave me an honest answer to that - because it's fun to ruin things for the strat guys. The other furballers complain that there aren't the numbers in the DA. But if the furballers are sufficiently numerous to justify game changes, then surely there are enough of them to make the DA option worthwhile.
As for "hardness" changes and other "nudges", I get the cold shivers about the game being tinkered with to suit one particular group of players. Lazs wants us all to believe that there's a pot of gold at the end of his rainbow. But once the smokescreen has cleared (took about 10 secs. last time) I see no pot of gold. In fact the only thing I see (and smell) is a big steaming dog turd.
As far as I'm concerned, the fingerbobs can take their ideas for "hardness" changes and "nudges", and shove 'em back in the dog.
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skuzzy... the early war area within the arena would not cause any problems that I can see.. HT told me that seperate resets were possible. Early war area would be subject to all the game parameters of the rest of the arena. If you wanted to fly an early war plane there with some parity you could.... yu could seamlessly switch to late war planes if you wanted to by simply clickintg on a different (late war) airfield. You would not be able to get to the rearly war area with a late war plane because of the 40K or so mountain range and the 2 or 3 sector no mans land. If you did... you wouldn't be able to make it back... if you got there you would have to get down and dirty to get a kill and anyone with such little skill that the had to game things like that would be easy to kill.
beetle... It matters not what I think of the stamp collectors and sky accountants... what matters is the content of my suggestions. What's the problem? feel that I am so clever and diobolical that I will fool everyone with some evil plan that no one but me can see? No... look at my suggestion instead of my percieved character. If there is a diobolical plot.... expose it. don't just hint at it man.
steve... Thank you for the character assesment and community poll on me. I would make the same suggestion to you that I made to beetle. In your case tho you have very little substance to anything you post. that is if you don't count thinly vield bragging and defending flying wussy planes as "substance" I am sorry (sorta) that I hit such a nerve but ya gotta learn to be less sensitive if you want to be a undeserved braggart.
the "challenge"... don't really care but it is fun to point out the obvious... the fast planes that can't dogfite force a very timid style that is not conducive to dogfighting or action of any sort. If there was a zeke challenge it would simply point out that the fields and the big map layouts are all wrong for early war planes
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Moving fields around in different arrangements might work (i.e. different distances). Of course, that requires a terrain rework. Lot of time to do that.
Maybe clumps of fields close together with a sector separating the clumps from other clumps.
Clumps of fields? Hmm...
If I’m following you right it would be say, three bishop fields a few miles from each other, then a sector apart a cluster of three knight fields? And if I understand correctly not having all fields like this but some scattered throughout the map?
The problem that I see with that is the impacts on strat and base capture. Trying to capture one of the cluster would be hard enough but then trying to hold it would be even harder. It could be done but it would only serve to promote the steamroller in the direction of the clusters to take them out quickly.
I really think the simplest answer is closer fields and a few more of them. If the maps take a rework, I would replace the vehicle fields with airfields. Seems like that wouldn’t be as time consuming. Yeah, I am biased against GV’s but they can be spawned from an airfield just as well as from a single V field.
Beetle,
For a card carrying leftwing pinko communist you sound like the NRA and gun control. “My Gawd! Don’t license firearms! That’s just a list so they can come take ‘em!” Hell the battle to gain an inch in this game is hard enough, you think they’re going to give up the mile?
**Note** For those of you who are card carrying leftwing pinko communists I mean no ill will or intend to demean your beliefs in any way :D.
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the area arena is basicly..... "clumps of fields".
lazs
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Even for you, Beet1e, this is an incredible post. It's got to be one for the history books.
"Stealth changes"? They've been discussed ad infinitum in an open forum.
Your concept of "Laz' secret plans for AH domination" is pretty funny though. You may have missed it, but Laz is merely looking for a fight in the MA. Fight's... as in air combat... is getting kinda rare in the MA. You can't do much ACM under the steamroller, which is where "strat" as implemented has taken the game.
Vehicle only fields are still subject to air attack. If you changed 'em to airfields, there'd be aircraft to help defend.
BTW, why should GV's have that "special place" to battle free from aircraft interference? Don't those GV guys know there is a DA? If the GV Guys are sufficiently numerous to justify game changes, then surely there are enough of them to make the DA option worthwhile. Don't you agree? :D
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so... if ya got 20-30 early war fiels down in the corner of the map that you can't get too unless you fly an early war plane from one of the fields there.... you have the same game parameters as the rest of the game but... seperate resets.
"the dildo hats have won the late war" "the nits have won the early war" What's the problem? feel like steveing it up and flying a pee 51 at 25 k? no sweat... click on a field in the late war area and (cough) "mix it up" with er, "like minded" guys.... feel like some low level early war melee fun? no sweat... click on an early war field that has some action and duke it out...
The whole time.... everyone is able to see just what is going on and keep in touch with everyone else in the community.
Ya can't squeak about lack of variety or maps designed for only one type of plane if ya don't offer a suggestion to fix it. This is mine. I have not seen any other that hasn't been tried (with horrible results) or that makes any sense.
if all you do is fly one way then you won't get it.. you will, like beetle and steve, defend the status quo... it suits your style so it shoyuld be good enough for everyone right? don't rock the boat...
Every change that is made these days seems to be counter to one style or another... the early war "area arena" would end this animosity and self interest to a large extent.
lazs
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What happens after you get the early war arena?
Someone starts a crusade for a 1943 only arena?
A p-51 only area?
A Stuka Vs. GV only arena?
What about an ME-262 arena?
One of the fuball proponents said moving the furs to the DA would divide the community. Are'nt we taking the same steps here? Will this set a precedent for anyone who wants something specific added or changed to the game, regardless of others, to start a year long crusade to get it implimented?
Closer fields? Fine. I've seen how this can work.
Eliminate GV only fields...No way. Unfair to the GVs and upsets the strat game as this was explained ad nauseum.
Clumps of airfields? All for it. We'll come in, bomb them back to the stone age with a 40 pilot mission, and make a simultaneous 3 field capture. I'd love to try that.
I can go for the Area within the Arena idea for furballs (Exactly like tank town) but not limiting the types of planes in there. That, in my opinion would set a precedent that would have every special interest person coming out of the woodwork.
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Lazs the problem with segregation of aircraft at airfields is... I don’t like the early war stuff. I like flying the late war aircraft. There would be problems with squads that fly together but have varying tastes in airplanes.
I like the fact that the 13th fly’s together all the time. We also have a variety up at any given moment. Stringer in a Yak, Toad is in just about anything that’s slow, Rude’s on a F6F kick, Milo, Beemer, Thunder, Oz and Cpig usually up in a very wide variety of aircraft. Sax is usually in an FM2 and Yeager and I still love the Mustang. Big blue also still has a place for me.
I would like to keep flying with the squad on nights other than squad nights. Something that limits the plane set in specific areas I think would be a bad idea and make it hard for this to continue.
Oh yeah, I also like shooting at the lower and slower aircraft :).
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It may have escaped your notice, but Tank Town has a very limited set of choices in the hangar.
Perhaps that set a precedent that has every special interest person coming out of the woodwork. :D
In short, the concept exists already; no reason not to give it a try for "early war". That's certainly a much less limited set of choices than GV's.
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Don't worry Zip. You can still steal Sax's kills if you're in an FM2.
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Lets take Trinity for example ....
There is a large piece of the map that is not used and means nothing in the current implementation.
Section off area in red with very high mountains creating a volcano effect. Hopefully high enough to discourage griefers.
Brown areas are land plateaus that are say 2k high and have very steep inclines to the volcano floor. The raised field would help on climb out and the steep incline (60%) would discourage GVs griefers that have already driven more than a 1 1/2 sectors to get to the base.
Blue dots are bases. They appear to be more than a sector apart from each other, and there is room behind each base to allow climbout if the center furball area is quite full and active.
Red dot is approx. center from all bases where the majority of the furball would take place. It appears to be about 1 sector away from each base. This allows plenty of room for climbout and I think more than enough room to accomodate a very large furball.
Bases can have GVs to help defend against griefers that may try to capture the base. The VH would be very close to the town. Ack at each base/town would be indestructable. Again, to discourage griefers and base capture. Towns would have extra ack surrounding the town, not just the 3 that are in the town. If troops are dropped, hopefully the increased amount of ack would wipe out all drunks before they hit the ground.
(http://pages.cthome.net/crzn22/Maps/trinity5.jpg)
(http://pages.cthome.net/crzn22/Maps/trinity6.jpg)
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Originally posted by Toad
It may have escaped your notice, but Tank Town has a very limited set of choices in the hangar.
Perhaps that set a precedent that has every special interest person coming out of the woodwork. :D
In short, the concept exists already; no reason not to give it a try for "early war". That's certainly a much less limited set of choices than GV's.
I understand your point, but saying the choices are limited is silly. Every GV possible is represented there. If you want to model the Arena idea according to Tank town, then you have to make every fighter aircraft available.
What you're trying to do appears to be unfair to many furballers and even occasional furballers like me. Say I want to get a qucik dogfight in before dinner and only have 30 mins to play. Well, my ride of choice is the F6F. It won't be avaiable will it?
Well, Lazs, defender of choice, has just elimiated my choice of aircraft. So maybe beetle is right. Maybe all this is just a thinly veiled attempt to get people to fly his way, with his type of plane.
I'm a part time furballer who flies Mid war aircraft. Where's my little sandbox for people like me?
It's funny, but the same people who scream when we talk about perking planes because it eliminates or reduces choice, are the same one's lobbying to have an arena where nothing past 1942 will be allowed.
Sorry, guys. I'm all for getting the little Arena but if you're going to have it and say it's for furballing, then you have to allow all fighter plane types.
Otherwise, it's gotta be Early War Mini Arena Furball area. If that's the case, then I want a Mid-War Mini Arena Furball area. And then there will be someone who want s Late war mini furball arena.
Where do we draw the line?
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Of course every possible GV is there. It's a Tank Furball Arena. Note, however, that NONE of the aircraft are available because the presence of non-tank furball elements would defeat the purpose of the Tank Furball Arena within the Main Arena.
Obviously the choices in the Tank Furball Arena are limited. ONLY GV's are available. What percentage of the "planeset" is that?
The Tank Furball Arena caters specifically to a small special interest group. And, apparently, no one seems to have a real problem with that. In fact the idea meets with general approbation from all sides in this discussion. The Tank Furballers aren't affecting the MA; they only affect their own little special Arean within an Arena.
If you have no interest in that, you obviously don't make use of it.
I'm a prime example of that case. I never go to the Tank Furball Arena within the MA; yet it doesn't bother me one bit that it is there and that those who like that sort of thing are enjoying it.
And for those who want "more".... there's the rest of the MA, in all it's "strategic" glory.
While the "planeset" for a similar Aircraft Furball Arena hasn't really even been discussed, it would seem quite obvious that if some aircraft were left out, then people actually interested in those aircraft could campaign for their inclusion OR lobby for their own little arena within an arena. :D (I bet Beet1e may soon chime in here with his plea for a Rolling Plane set.)
Point is, if there is a purely GV Tank Furball Arena within the Main Arena, there's no reason why some sort of Aircraft Furball Arena can't be given a chance. If it doesn't work, it's easily tweaked or removed. The Tankers have essentially no effect on MA "strat" and MA strat has no real effect on them. (Nor do they appear to desire any effect either way.)
There's a group of fliers that want the same thing. A place away from the Hamster Wheel War with it's incredibly subtle and clever strategy , where they can use their fighter aircraft for fighter air combat without any effect on MA strat and where strat really doesn't affect them.
Now it's OK for GV guys to want that and get it... but somehow it's not OK for guys that like pure Fighter Air Combat?
Note also that if a CV method were used, 3 out of the "Perk the Big Four" aircraft would be unavailable. So those seeking the ever elusive "diversity" in their fights would have a readily available option if they were tired of La-7's, P-51's and N1K1's.
There's a lot of positives to the idea. It in no way limits the enjoyment of those that like the MA like it is now. All that would still be there. Like the Tank Furball Arena within the Main Arena, a Aircraft Furball Arena within the Main Arena would merely present another option, more choice, for all players.
Again, remember that the Hampster Wheel War would be unaffected in the same way that the Tank Furball Arena really does not affect it on Trinity.
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If that's the case, then I want a Mid-War Mini Arena Furball area.
Hang on a sec!
If you're getting an arena within the arena within the arena for mid-war planes then I want an arena within the arena within the arena within the arena for late war only planes!
Fair is fair! :cool:
Wab
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Originally posted by Zippatuh
Beetle,
For a card carrying leftwing pinko communist
ROFL! Hey Dowding/Straffo - has this guy got his head up his arse or what?
Now that MT is free to remarry, perhaps I should propose...
Mr. Toad! Always a pleasure to hear from you... but don't you think Lazs can defend himself? Anyway, thanks for reading my post. :D
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The first FM-2 was built in 1943.
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So, Wab, what's your view on the Tank Furball Arena presently included in Trinity?
Beet1e......... I skimmed it as usual. ;)
...... and I'm not speaking for Laz, I'm speaking for myself. Lately I find myself playing a boxed game far more than AH, a situation in which I never really thought I would find myself. At least AI will aggressively engage. ;)
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Originally posted by Zanth
The first FM-2 was built in 1943.
Don't think there's any definitive listing so far, other than the CV idea. The normal CV planeset would work fine I think.
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Originally posted by Toad
Lately I find myself playing a boxed game far more than AH, a situation in which I never really thought I would find myself. At least AI will aggressively engage. ;)
Oh, now I get it. The people in AH just won't fly the way you want them to, so you've gone off in a huff to play your boxed game. Awwww, shame... :( :o
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No, as usual, you don't get it.
I'm a fighter action junkie. AH is no longer about fighter combat, as it was at the beginning.
People campaigning for little nudges and tweaks to make it more suitable for their style of play, you see. Now it's not really about fighter air combat at all, is it?
So, just as if I originally had a lot of interest in a game about say... driving race cars... as "special interest groups" nudged the game more into the mechanical aspect of prepping the cars for the race in the pits while another group lobbied for and got a major innovation of cooking hamburgers and hot dogs for the crowd and the "ticket scalping lobby" got that included in the game for them..... I would be off investigating other opportunities for ...... driving race cars. You know, the thing the originally attracted me to the game in the first place.
Enjoy your hot dogs and ticket scalping. ;)
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Toad-
I think you misunderstood me.
I'm all for the Furball arena idea, but I do not think any fighter aircraft should be excluded. Please reread my post if you mis understood.
I also do not care for the CV only idea, as this would severly limit the aircraft available for the furball arena, even though my ride of choice would be there. I'm just looking out for others.
The limited AC available from a CV would certainly eliminate alot of the BIG-4 Problem, only to respawn in another form. I don't know what the AC of choice would be, but it could turn into CHOG arena or something.
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The whole idea has to pass the "doable" test.
Obviously, the Tank Furball Arena within an Arena was "doable" within the confines of the Terrain Editor (map maker) and within the AH game itself. The TFAWAA is merely V-fields (already in the game) surrounded by high mountains (clearly withing the parameters of the game itself.) That's all that was really implemented or changed.
Now, to create a "all fighters only" Aircraft Furball Arena Within An Arena, you'd have to create something that IS NOT in the game. There are no airfields that I know of that have no bomber hangars. That would be a "new element" and may or may not be possible for the Terrain Editor to make. I simply don't know. Surrounding it or walling it off with mountains would clearly be possible.
The CV AFAWAA would be easily "doable". CV/Port logic exists and the mountain wall technique does too.
Now the real beauty is, that EXACTLY LIKE the Tank Furball Arena within an Arena, if you don't want to go to the CV AFAWAA, you don't have to do so.
It will not affect your current play style in the MA in any way at all.
So, you want to fly a Mustang? Go ahead. And, if you're so inclined, you can take drop tanks and make the long flight over the hills into the CV AFAWAA, EXACTLY like you would going from the MA into the Tank Furball Arena within an Arena.
It's a "no harm, no foul" idea. No one gets hurt by this.
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You know ... we had a good dialog going yesterday and with Skuzzy's involvment to boot ... he was listening and providing input.
As soon as beet1e started posting, there has been nothing but snotballs being lobbed at each other, and Skuzzy has disappeared ... I wonder why ?
I posted screen shots of what I thought would fix/work into an existing map using some of the ideas that were brought forth yesterday ... not one word about any of it ... just more snotballs.
13th TAS ... <> gentlemen ... Please ignore beet1e, as hard as that may be, forget the snotballs and lets get back to the idea mill.
To continue the discussion ... I would not see this area limiting the plane set. Bring what ya want to the furball ... it would be no different than the current furballs that we all enjoy now.
The real difference, is that the design of this area would be to ensure that the furball continue and not get sunffed out as they are today. That is the main objective as I see it.
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Originally posted by Toad
The whole idea has to pass the "doable" test.
Obviously, the Tank Furball Arena within an Arena was "doable" within the confines of the Terrain Editor (map maker) and within the AH game itself. The TFAWAA is merely V-fields (already in the game) surrounded by high mountains (clearly withing the parameters of the game itself.) That's all that was really implemented or changed.
Now, to create a "all fighters only" Aircraft Furball Arena Within An Arena, you'd have to create something that IS NOT in the game. There are no airfields that I know of that have no bomber hangars. That would be a "new element" and may or may not be possible for the Terrain Editor to make. I simply don't know. Surrounding it or walling it off with mountains would clearly be possible.
The CV AFAWAA would be easily "doable". CV/Port logic exists and the mountain wall technique does too.
Now the real beauty is, that EXACTLY LIKE the Tank Furball Arena within an Arena, if you don't want to go to the CV AFAWAA, you don't have to do so.
It will not affect your current play style in the MA in any way at all.
So, you want to fly a Mustang? Go ahead. And, if you're so inclined, you can take drop tanks and make the long flight over the hills into the CV AFAWAA, EXACTLY like you would going from the MA into the Tank Furball Arena within an Arena.
It's a "no harm, no foul" idea. No one gets hurt by this.
Toad,
The CV idea is good and definately appears to be doable. I think the plane set would be too limiting, thats just MHO. Also, the CV can move which would lend itselfs to griefers capturing the other or all CV ports as Wab described. This could be prevented, again, by indestructable ack at the ports and plenty of them so if LVTs tried to capture, the ack would hopefully rip them up as the approached dry land.
I think the biggest drawback would be the limited plane set.
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I am still reading...just a bit busy with the short week.
Have a Happy and Safe 4th of July!
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zip and muck and wabbit... you are limited to plane choice now... you can only take off certain types from carriers. If the 13th decided on a carrier fight yu are limited to carrier planes.. if they go early war you will be limited to early war but.... you can seamlessly switch if 2 or three tas say... "i'm sick of this let's go to A79 (late war field) one click and you are there...
muck... how so? you can fly any plane you want from the late war area. you just can't fly late war planes from the early war area... the sgregation has INCREASED choice... you have a place that is viable for early war planes and a place where all planes are allowed if youy so desire... you can still fly any plane against any plane.... just not non carrier planes from carriers or late war planes from early war fields.... with seperate resets you will never be 'forced" to fly any type of plane.
wabbit... you have hit on my diobolical super secret plot.... eventually.... I WOULD like to see a mid war area within the arena.... 3 areas instead of 2 or 1... early, mid and late. That would be the most fair of course and offer even more choice and parity. I think it would be easier to test the early war arena idea first tho... I have found that any concept past the extremely rudimentary causes a lot of people to brain lock or go into self interest fetal positions.
lazs
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as for early, mid and late.... infinity or pizza could easily be switched... each country area as it exists could be changed to an "area" .... early, mid and late. 2-5 sectors seperation with maybe some gv bases in the seperation "no mans land" a bigger and better 'tank town" so to speak...
see.... something for everyone.
lazs
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I am still reading...just a bit busy with the short week.
Have a Happy and Safe 4th of July!
GREAT !!! Any thoughts ?
Have a safe and fun weekend !!!
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slap... if yu have an early war and a mid war arena with close fields 3/4 to a sector apart... you don't need and artifical furball with all planes enabled... if will simply happen... in the late war area the fields would be farther apart and furs would not happen... or they might, once in a while but the planes and people who like to fly em are not suited to furballs in any case.
early and mid would be pure fun.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
zip and muck and wabbit... you are limited to plane choice now... you can only take off certain types from carriers. If the 13th decided on a carrier fight yu are limited to carrier planes.. if they go early war you will be limited to early war but.... you can seamlessly switch if 2 or three tas say... "i'm sick of this let's go to A79 (late war field) one click and you are there...
muck... how so? you can fly any plane you want from the late war area. you just can't fly late war planes from the early war area... the sgregation has INCREASED choice... you have a place that is viable for early war planes and a place where all planes are allowed if youy so desire... you can still fly any plane against any plane.... just not non carrier planes from carriers or late war planes from early war fields.... with seperate resets you will never be 'forced" to fly any type of plane.
wabbit... you have hit on my diobolical super secret plot.... eventually.... I WOULD like to see a mid war area within the arena.... 3 areas instead of 2 or 1... early, mid and late. That would be the most fair of course and offer even more choice and parity. I think it would be easier to test the early war arena idea first tho... I have found that any concept past the extremely rudimentary causes a lot of people to brain lock or go into self interest fetal positions.
lazs
Laz ... 'ole buddy !!!
Lets walk before we run.
I thought the original goal was to provide a "furball" area that cannot be interrupted by strat goals (no fuel porked - short flight distance to the fight). If we can start with just this concept first, and prove that it has merit, then we can see how we can accomodate plane sets within these areas. The area concept has to be proven first IMHO.
In my business, too many requirements at the beginning of a product cycle can kill the cycle all together, or the start of the cycle is delayed.
You have to start with a proof of concept first and that is usually very simple requirements at the onset, eventually other requirements are added later.
I also would like to see these multiple areas with different plane sets, but I would first like to see just an area. That would be a TREMENDOUS WIN !!!
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Another suggestion:
Create a map that would remain in the SEA or new arena. If it remains in the SEA then it comes down for events. I would suggest a new arena.
The map would have in the top-left corner serveral bases of every country with only early-war planes available.
In the top-right could be mid-war planes.
In the lower-left could be late-war planes.
The lower-right could have all planes if you want it.
Somewhere in the middle could be a lake with two ports and cvs for each country. This allows for good cv and carriers battle.
Also in the middle could be a gv area (complete with broken town buildings ala Okinawa map for cover) with maybe three vehicle hangers and each one having a different spawn point. The three different spawn points should help with spawn point camping.
Create 40k mountins around the different areas if that makes everyone happen to prevent someone from flying into a different area.
Bases uncapturable. Acks could be hardened or indestructable if you would like. No need for towns and map room simply located at the base although they aren't necessarily needed.
Okay, stop slinging snotballs (as someone said) and how about some constructive critisicm on this idea.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Oh, now I get it. The people in AH just won't fly the way you want them to, so you've gone off in a huff to play your boxed game. Awwww, shame... :( :o
C'mon Beetle...you're really not that simple minded are you?
It's not much fun to have folks fly over you and not fight, nor is it fun to have to spend 20 minutes grabbin alt just to chase someone back to the deck.
HT just needs to move the fields closer...I'm not in favor of a seperate fighter town concept. Move the fields closer and the fights will develope quicker and at lower alt.
This change will in no way hinder the strat guys.
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HT just needs to move the fields closer...I'm not in favor of a seperate fighter town concept. Move the fields closer and the fights will develope quicker and at lower alt.
I tend to agree with you Rude. I'm all for searching for the sweet spot in field spacing. Instead of a 0.75-1.5 sector rule I'd like to see something closer to 0.5-1.0 sector spacing. I feel 0.75 is close to the ideal.
However, I don't like the idea of arena within arena within an arena within an arena with indestructable ack and indestructable fuel and indestructable hangars and some limited plane set and uncaptureable fields.
I don't like the idea of removing buffs or GV's from the game.
I don't like the idea of removing all GV fields from the maps.
But as Dennis Miller says: "Thats just my opinion, I could be wrong..."
Wab
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this posts suks...
you guys are fukng sissies
this game is bad asss how it is..almost perfect..
i have no problem doing what i want 24 hours a day..
yes somtimes when i want to furballits tuff....sometimes..
but get ur tulips outside..reADING AND WRITING THIS STUFF ISbs..
GET A LIFE..NERDS
maybe its all the vicodin im on..but u guys make me want to puke..
arenas with in arenas..omg..
i WANT TO VIRTUALLY STAB HALF OF U
fkn caps lok
i wish i could lok this posts
Love BiGB
666
x0xo
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Slapshot - maybe you're right, and I don't want to be inflammatory. But when we have someone who dismisses whole swathes of the community as "sky accountants", "coin collectors", "strat potatos" or bad partygoers, well - someone has to speak up. Balance, my boy, balance. ;)
But now that civility has returned, I'm enjoying reading about some of the new ideas. Please understand me. I'm not against game changes - see the green text in my sig. But ad-hoc "nudges", "tweaks", or other fixes which are designed to influence gameplay in a particular fashion, well - see the red text in my sig. I saw that crap applied to WB, I saw how it ruined the game, and I saw the exodus it caused, and then I became part of that exodus. Still, I have confidence in Skuzzy and Hitech, and I don't think we'll see AH ruined that way.
Mr. Toad! A very lucid and lengthy response to my remarks. You answered me in full! Hehe, you didn't just skim that one!
Rude - I was pretending to be obtuse - LOL! :D
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".....reADING AND WRITING THIS STUFF IS.... "
In your case damn near impossible!
Could you toss that post back into the dialectizer and get it to come out the way it went in? Gracias.
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Cod Damn it, Slapshot! I told you to mark your calendar!
It's your week to keep BGB medicated!
Now go give him his fix before he chews through the ropes again.
Now stop sleeping at the switch.
We now return to our regularly scheduled discussion/flame war.
:D
Awww crap..I just remember, BGB has my address...:eek:
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All you guys unhappy with the current terrains oughta get together and design a map. I don't mean make one, just draw it up on paper or create an image you can share with mspaint, everyone with windows has mspaint. The acutal mechanics of doing that aren't that hard or time consuming. On the other hand, designing one that will work well may be time consuming.
Anyhow, NB and I already offered to help Lazs. I wasn't being a smartass either. Come up with a good design and I'm sure we can find enough willing hands to implement the thing.
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Slap,
First of all, get indestructible ack out of your head. Ain't no way HT will go for that, even if it is possible in the present coding. Nah gunna do it. Ain't gunna happen. studmuffineddaboudit.
Similarly, there's no airfield in the program that I know about without bomber hangars. And I'm pretty sure you don't want heavy bombers in this AFAWAA deal. It'd be defeating the purpose, like having heavy buffs available in the Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena.
Capture is always going to be possible. It's just another thing HT ain't gonna do. (See above)
Sure, there WILL be griefers. There is now in the TFAWAA.
As for the CV set being "limited", I know I'm not the only one here that has posted that CV battles are the best action in the AH MA at present.
I'd love to see this idea given a test. It can always be tweaked.. or discarded.
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Originally posted by BGBMAW
this posts suks...
you guys are fukng sissies
this game is bad asss how it is..almost perfect..
i have no problem doing what i want 24 hours a day..
yes somtimes when i want to furballits tuff....sometimes..
but get ur tulips outside..reADING AND WRITING THIS STUFF ISbs..
GET A LIFE..NERDS
maybe its all the vicodin im on..but u guys make me want to puke..
arenas with in arenas..omg..
i WANT TO VIRTUALLY STAB HALF OF U
fkn caps lok
i wish i could lok this posts
Love BiGB
666
x0xo
YES
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Let's do some basic arithmetic. Imagine a spherical area containing N planes. Each plane can see N-1 planes. Therefore, there are N*(N-1) position updates necessary to support the sphere of planes.
I suspect the number N*(N-1) controls the costs of maintaining a furball arena (or an area artifically constrained to consist of nothing but furballs.)
Now, let's look at this furball arena/area. What's going to happen? Will you have 4 or 5 furballs distributed across the area? Nope, furballs being what they are, will have a tendency to move to a central location (within the confined area.) In other words, there will be one large furball.
In my very limited way of thinking, something like this would be unworkable with WW1 planes. You would have too many planes in an area with too few leaving the area.
With WW2 planes, the situation is somewhat better. However, if you have a large group of early planes, say 109E4s, F4Fs, A6M2s and so on, it's going to aggravate the situation.
With the network code necessary to support the type of activity associated with aerial combat, basic calcuations convince me that approximately 100 early war (ww2) planes operating in a confined area will totally saturate a T1. In other words, is a furball area economically feasible if we require minimal warping?
Furthermore, it's just not that damn simple. The type of mentality (not an insult) associated with furballs guarantees that it will move to a base. Vulching will become an enormous problem. I suppose guns could be disabled in a spherical area about each airfield ... like I said, it's not as simple as you guys are proposing.
Now, I imagine Hitech knows the answer to these questions and I would like to hear his response to 1) Suppose you have N slow moving (200mph or less) airplanes in a confined area. Is a furball area economically feasible? How large can N be if we require minimal warping? And 2), how will the vulching problem be resolved?
curly
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
However, I don't like the idea of arena within arena Wab
Yet again I ask you your opinion on the current Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena that is presently in use on the Trinity Map.
Do you think it has ruined the game? Or do you think it is basically a "good thing"?
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Originally posted by BGBMAW
Classy.
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Originally posted by beet1e
I'm not against game changes - see the green text in my sig. But ad-hoc "nudges", "tweaks", or other fixes which are designed to influence gameplay in a particular fashion, well - see the red text in my sig.
I realize you came late to the AH party but it's exactly those ad-hoc "nudges", "tweaks", or other fixes which are designed to influence gameplay in a particular fashion that brought this game from the premier air combat game that debuted as a beta to the ...... um..... well, whatever the heck it is now, but it sure isn't focused on ACM anymore.
So you can't have it both ways beet. You're actually quite happy with ad-hoc "nudges", "tweaks", or other fixes which are designed to influence gameplay in a particular fashion as long as you like the particular fashion.
And you simply won't have anyone disagreeing with you, will you?
Tell me... without dodging.. the answers to these two simple questions:
1. Do you approve of the Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena that is currently available on Trinity, knowing it has no real affect on overall MA strat and just exists to provide a place for tankers to have mindless fun?
2. Would you approve of an Aircraft Furball Arena Within An Arena on a map, knowing it has no real affect on overall MA strat and just exists to provide a place for fighter pilots to have mindless fun?
Tell me the answers to those two and how they fit with your views on tweaks and nudges.
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Things must be a little slow over at IL2. Maybe a cowl flap linkage problem or something. :D
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Curly, CV battles seem to work out OK right now. Bout the only thing that drops the frames is the ack barrages for me.
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Originally posted by AKIron
All you guys unhappy with the current terrains oughta get together and design a map. I don't mean make one, just draw it up on paper or create an image you can share with mspaint, everyone with windows has mspaint. The acutal mechanics of doing that aren't that hard or time consuming. On the other hand, designing one that will work well may be time consuming.
Come up with a good design and I'm sure we can find enough willing hands to implement the thing.
Okay...see above posted explanation if needed.
(http://www.cox-internet.com/drunky/Aces%20High.jpg)
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Works for me, Drunky!
Somehow, though, I don't think it'd work as an MA for the Stratroller crowd. ;)
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I assume this is not a concept for an entire MA map, but a small section of a MA map?
If this is the idea for an entire MA map, I don't see how it can be implemented without having serious ramifications on squads who like to furball together, but fly different planes.
One of the guys in the TAS said the same thing.
I would assume the lack of Strat must imply that this is the idea for only a small section of a MA map.
I think Slapshot said it best. The furballers need to take one step at a time. Get your mini-arena first, then work on a Mini-late war, mini-mid, mini-early, and mini CV.
First step is to get the mini-furball arena, period.
Also, the map shown would pose a problem in that there are too many fields, and if uncapturable, would make the Map impossible to reset.
Unless of course, your going to allow base capture in each of those mini-arenas, which means you'll have to enable troops, and bombs, and this will lead to fuel porking, etc.
Will 22% of the Furball crowd log off if the Mid-war arena is taken by one country? Once they're out, the 40K mountains keep them out...
Any ideas?
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Originally posted by Mr. Toad
I realize you came late to the AH party but it's exactly those ad-hoc "nudges", "tweaks", or other fixes which are designed to influence gameplay in a particular fashion that brought this game from the premier air combat game that debuted as a beta to the ...... um..... well, whatever the heck it is now, but it sure isn't focused on ACM anymore.
So you can't have it both ways beet. You're actually quite happy with ad-hoc "nudges", "tweaks", or other fixes which are designed to influence gameplay in a particular fashion as long as you like the particular fashion.
And you simply won't have anyone disagreeing with you, will you?
Tell me... without dodging.. the answers to these two simple questions:
1. Do you approve of the Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena that is currently available on Trinity, knowing it has no real affect on overall MA strat and just exists to provide a place for tankers to have mindless fun?
2. Would you approve of an Aircraft Furball Arena Within An Arena on a map, knowing it has no real affect on overall MA strat and just exists to provide a place for fighter pilots to have mindless fun?
Tell me the answers to those two and how they fit with your views on tweaks and nudges.
I don't want it both ways. But I don't want "hardness" tinkered with purely at the behest of a mere subset of AH subscribers. The only people who want that are those who want to make it more difficult (read impossible) for buffs/jabos to succeed. I have even seen furballers call for the radar at HQ to be "hardened" - presumably because they're too damn lazy (or too busy furballing) to defend it. If these changes are enacted, the buffs/jabos will simply give up - and that's what the hardcore furballers really want. Do not tell me that such changes are deemed to be "enhancements" to the game. They are not. They are changes designed to favour a particular subset of players - red sig text applies.
The guys clamouring for fuel porkage/strat hardness to be addressed can't be bothered or don't know how to defend against it. Let's put the boot on the other foot for a moment, and imagine if a F6F dweeb complained of being shot down - because he couldn't be bothered to evade, or didn't know how to: How do you think his calls for fighter ammo to be softened would be received?
In answer to your two questions: [list=1]- Trinity tank town is fine - totally unrealistic, but can be a lot of fun. Trinity was not the first map to have tank fields which had no bearing on the rest of the game. Pizza (the outer crust) has that feature too. I sometimes go to tank town myself for a bit of nonsense.
- The furball arena within an arena - equally pointless, but fun for some. Why not? But if it's modelled in Lazs's image (with a 50,000' wall around it) then I don't see the difference between that scenario, and having two separate arenas. That being the case, I see no reason for the furballers not to use the DA.
It has been mentioned that having such lookaside areas, or arenas within arenas, a map reset becomes difficult or impossible. I would say that map reset is a moot point these days. Even when a reset occurs, the system resets to the same map.
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This map would be put into a seperate arena or in the SEA when not in use.
It would be simply for the furball crowd who care not for the use of strat.
Fields would be uncapturable and would allow for the most exposure of furballing; between airfield, cv's, cv based, and tanks.
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I quit trying to help as of this point.
It becomes more and more clear that certain people wish nothing more than to argue between themselves as little has been written that can be discribed as suggestions.
This post has gone 5 pages and what does it show? Very little in the way of suggestions but many miles of quoting each other and refuting the other's perspective. If would seem that some people prefer to verbally joust more than they prefer to fly.
If you wish to implode upon your avarices, then be my guest. I wash my hands of you all at this point.
I haven't been in the MA for sometime and I am reminded of the reasons every time I read many of your posts. I will continue to reside in the CT.
I had hoped desperately that we could foster a new place that I could enjoy flying against some of the best pilots that we have in AH without distraction. But apparently our own egos or selfish desires has reduced a grander scheme to petty bickering match in which we are all the losers.
I looked forwar to flying against Lasz in early-war planes and testing not only his skill but my own. I had also looked forward to flying against Rude in his P51-d for the same reason. I don't think that I would win those contest but I would have learned nonetheless. These are just two examples.
Too bad it will never happen :(
Long live the dream, the dream is dead.
It seems that few read my posts and even fewer respond. Go then, there are other worlds than this.
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I'm not for reinventing the wheel, fields a little closer.. the .75 number is minimum, sounds about right.
Adjustments to ease the fuel porkage issue and give it a whirl..
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Actually, I think this is one of the most constructive threads we've ever done, and the animosity has been held to a minimum. (Well, after the first 2 pages, anyway)
I think I can summarize my position.
I want the furballers to have their area to play in the MA equivalent to Tank Town. I don't want to see any particular plane type excluded from this mini-arena, as this would eliminate the choice of planes so many fiercly defend whenever the perk issue comes up.
I don't believe in multiple mini-arenas for different aircraft classes (Early-Mid-Late)
I don't want to see any more concessions made by the Strats for the sake of Furballs. (See changes to Bombers...way back when)
Frankly, and I know this is going to bother some, but it must be said....I'm happy the way AH is. Could it be better? Sure. Could we make it worse by tweaking too much? Sure.
Do we have a say in what happens? Nope. Remember, this is all academic. Skuzzy may listen, and offer advice, and I'm sure HT wants to keep the bulk of his customers happy, but when It's all said and done, Hi-Tech makes the decision.
If he see's subscriptions going up, or at least remaining steady..and by the number of new names I've seen, I think they're going up, he won't want to change a thing.
I'm not trying to be pessimistic. Just realistic.
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Originally posted by Toad
Slap,
First of all, get indestructible ack out of your head. Ain't no way HT will go for that, even if it is possible in the present coding. Nah gunna do it. Ain't gunna happen. studmuffineddaboudit.
Similarly, there's no airfield in the program that I know about without bomber hangars. And I'm pretty sure you don't want heavy bombers in this AFAWAA deal. It'd be defeating the purpose, like having heavy buffs available in the Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena.
Capture is always going to be possible. It's just another thing HT ain't gonna do. (See above)
Sure, there WILL be griefers. There is now in the TFAWAA.
As for the CV set being "limited", I know I'm not the only one here that has posted that CV battles are the best action in the AH MA at present.
I'd love to see this idea given a test. It can always be tweaked.. or discarded.
Toad,
Ok .. no indestructable ack. Then each airfield and town could be bolstered with so many ack that it would be near impossible to de-ack the area before some furballers would up and kill the would-be vultchers/capturers. Ack can be made more accurate ... NO ? Does that fall into the ... "Nah gunna do it. Ain't gunna happen. studmuffineddaboudit" category too ?
I never said eliminate the bomber hangers. I don't care if they are there. Like I said in a previous post, if I were to see a bomber or a C47 up from my field, then his location and direction of flight would be broadcast so fast, that they wouldn't have a chance to make a difference. Along with that, any enemy plane that was targeting said buff/goon would get a free pass by me to kill the buff/goon.
These fields would be capturable ... just VERY difficult to capture due to the proliferation of lazer ack.
I am one of those that LOVE a good CV battle/furball ... I just wouldn't want them all the time. I would love to get up in some of the other early war planes that aren't offered off the deck of a CV.
I would be willing to see thew CV concept go to test even with the dislikes that I have pointed out above. Like I said in prior post, first step is to prove the concept ... after that comes refinements.
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Originally posted by Drunky
I quit trying to help as of this point.
It becomes more and more clear that certain people wish nothing more than to argue between themselves as little has been written that can be discribed as suggestions.
This post has gone 5 pages and what does it show? Very little in the way of suggestions but many miles of quoting each other and refuting the other's perspective. If would seem that some people prefer to verbally joust more than they prefer to fly.
If you wish to implode upon your avarices, then be my guest. I wash my hands of you all at this point.
I haven't been in the MA for sometime and I am reminded of the reasons every time I read many of your posts. I will continue to reside in the CT.
I had hoped desperately that we could foster a new place that I could enjoy flying against some of the best pilots that we have in AH without distraction. But apparently our own egos or selfish desires has reduced a grander scheme to petty bickering match in which we are all the losers.
I looked forwar to flying against Lasz in early-war planes and testing not only his skill but my own. I had also looked forward to flying against Rude in his P51-d for the same reason. I don't think that I would win those contest but I would have learned nonetheless. These are just two examples.
Too bad it will never happen :(
Long live the dream, the dream is dead.
It seems that few read my posts and even fewer respond. Go then, there are other worlds than this.
Whoa Drunky ... step back from the 40 dude.
Your idea does have merit ... I like it. There is no reason not to continue forward with it ... there is nothing saying that only 1 idea/concept is acceptable at this time.
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Originally posted by nopoop
I'm not for reinventing the wheel, fields a little closer.. the .75 number is minimum, sounds about right.
Adjustments to ease the fuel porkage issue and give it a whirl..
Poop ... with that attitude, we would still be driving on stone wheels and all have cars like Fred Flintstone. :D
This concept eliminates the need to muck with the current MA settings and keeping the strat guys happy with the status quo.
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And when we get the arena sectioned off for early war planes and a section for late war planes and a section for GVs and a section for PT boats and a section for bombers and a section for attack mode and a section for fighter mode and a chat mode section .... can I please have just a little section to set up a curio shop to sell historical mementos from the "back in days of AH" stuff? :D
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Originally posted by beet1e
The furball arena within an arena - equally pointless, but fun for some. Why not?
OK then. So give it up already.
You're talking about something that isn't going to happen and most are talking about something for which a precedent has already been set and MIGHT happen.
Like I've said many times before, I don't care what you want to do in the game as long as I can do what I want to do somewhere in the game.
So you just strat your little heart out while I lobby for an Aircraft Furball Arena Within An Arena that is similar to and based upon the Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena, ok?
Be nice and eat yer meat.. or ya can't have any pudding!
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Originally posted by beet1e
I don't want it both ways. But I don't want "hardness" tinkered with purely at the behest of a mere subset of AH subscribers. The
C'mon, don't be a hypocrite. The journey from the pure fighter ACM game that was Beta to whatever it is we have now was accomplished by subsets of AH subscribers lobbying for "tinkering" changes.
So you do want it both ways. You apparently like what it has become but now that you're satisfied, there's to be no more tinkering?
Ya know, we had a saying about guys like you in the Union.
"Up the ladder mates, I'm aboard".
You've got yours and now no ones else gets aboard, eh? You're happy, so no more tinkering. :D
There's been YEARS of subsets of players "tinkering". YEARS.
Once again, I thank you for bringing a smile to my day.
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Slap, I don't think they can tweak the ack accuracy in just one area of the map. It's probably an arena wide setting. If you make lazer ack all over...... the howling will never cease. Might be able to add some, I don't know the limits there.
Heavy bombers need to be eliminated for the same reason that there's no jabo's or buffs available in the Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena. They defeat the entire purpose and so must be removed. Now.. if we could get killshooter off ......... that might be more fun than furballing even.
The CV idea would provide a quick, cheap, relatively off the shelf test of the concept. If it works, then perhaps a more detailed effort would be warranted.
If not.. I hear Medieval Total War is fun........
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Originally posted by Toad
Curly, CV battles seem to work out OK right now. Bout the only thing that drops the frames is the ack barrages for me.
It would be interesting if HTC prevented CVs from getting closer than 25 miles to the shoreline.
The incentive for sinking CVs would disappear (except port capture.)
curly
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Quoting Mr. Toad's entire brick (subset of his wall) to piss Drunky off :D
Originally posted by Mr. Toad
C'mon, don't be a hypocrite. The journey from the pure fighter ACM game that was Beta to whatever it is we have now was accomplished by subsets of AH subscribers lobbying for "tinkering" changes.
So you do want it both ways. You apparently like what it has become but now that you're satisfied, there's to be no more tinkering?
Ya know, we had a saying about guys like you in the Union.
"Up the ladder mates, I'm aboard".
You've got yours and now no ones else gets aboard, eh? You're happy, so no more tinkering. :D
There's been YEARS of subsets of players "tinkering". YEARS.
Once again, I thank you for bringing a smile to my day.
are you being deliberately obtuse? About tinkering: No problem with tinkering if its objective is to benefit everyone - see green sig text. But I object to tinkering which seeks to alter the overall gameplay style for the benefit of some but the detriment of others - see red sig text. I can't make it any simpler than that. And even Skuzzy agrees with me - see purple sig text.
The British saying is "I'm all right, Jack".
BTW, Too-obtuse. I get my fuel porked too. And sometimes those nasty men in red hit my HQ radar. I have two solutions to that, and have performed both. One is to up a P47 to go to its defence, and the other has been to join the goon conveyor belt to resupply it. Option 3 - whining to HTC to have the game changed - is not on my list.
As for fuel porkage, since the fingerbobs have been whining about it, I decided to try it myself. Yes, it is quite easy to whack the fuel once the field has been de-acked. And now that I know how effective this is as a tactic, and all the wailing and gnashing of gums it causes from the grumpy old men, I shall pork on with gay abandon!
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Originally posted by beet1e
About tinkering: No problem with tinkering if its objective is to benefit everyone - see green sig text. But I object to tinkering which seeks to alter the overall gameplay style for the benefit of some but the detriment of others - see red sig text.
You positively define obtuse old bean!
I suppose you actually believe that through all these years of tinkering all changes were cheerfully accepted as beneficial by all players?
Clearly all of the changes have been beneficial to some and detrimental to others.
How the heck do you think we've come to this animosity between the furball crowd and the strateeeegerists?
So once again we're at Beet1e's Basic Bottom Line:
"Tinkering with the game is fine, as long as I agree with the changes. The rest of you should have no voice."
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"The CV idea would provide a quick, cheap, relatively off the shelf test of the concept. If it works, then perhaps a more detailed effort would be warranted."
Agreed !!! Gotta start somewhere. ;)
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Originally posted by Toad
So once again we're at Beet1e's Basic Bottom Line:
"Tinkering with the game is fine, as long as I agree with the changes. The rest of you should have no voice."
Well, if that's how you see it, at least it's perfectly balanced with Lazs's bottom line, which is "More choices for all. I am on your side, except if you don't agree with me in which case you're an idiotic sky accountant, coin collector or bad partygoer" And of course, in Lazs's utopian world, women would have no say in AH development at all. I am delighted we have at last reached equilibrium. :D
Balance, my boy, balance. ;)
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Do you really want to go through a litany of changes that have been made and evaluate whether everyone found them "beneficial"?
Surely, even you realize that many if not all of the changes were controversial? Generated animosity?
You are content because the game is apparently evolving in a way that generally satisfies you. That is what is most obvious in your signature block at present.
Surely you can see that there are many that are not happy because that same evolution provides less and less satisfaction to them?
Never forget, for all of Laz' vitriol and hyperbole, what he's been asking for most consistently and continually is an "arena within an arena". A concept that the Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena has proven as workable.
Were Laz to get his wish, it would not affect your strateeeegerist gameplay AT ALL.
It would offer "more choice".
So I suppose there is nearly perfect balance here. Your posts depict you EXACTLY as you depict Laz.
:D
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bad partygoer? I didn't say that... sounds effeminate.
Look... I will be happy with fields a little closer.. ANY change that gives the early war planes a chance is a plus for the game but...
lets get relaistic here and look at the big picture.... late war planes are not "furballers" they can be furball wannabes and furball spoilers and furball lurkers... so long as they aren't too much of a pain in the butt tho it's all right to have em around but...
In the end we have to have a real solution and, beetle and some of the knuckle draggers here have decided that I am a diobolical supervillan with a super secret plot or.. conversely... have no idea other than 'put the fields closer together" I have offered my ultimate solution... some sim will do it because it is the ony workable solution to a sim about WWII aircraft that span such a large technolodgy base.
Drunky get's it but... you don't need an 'all planes area'... the late war is an all planes area. the mid war would be a mid and early war area and the early war area would be early only.
strat would not change.. or, need not.. seperate resets. You would not have your squad split into different arenas with no communication... If they consistently liked to fly only one type of plane and it was not what the rest of the group liked... they probly didn't fit in anyway. Most squads settle on one or two pllanes or switch for "missuns" or jump around on plane choice edepending on the situation.. In the BK's no that many guys fly carrier planes but if I find a good cv fight they will all jump into carrier planes..
In the area arena it would work the same... if there was a great fight at the mid war area we would simply jump into one of a dozen or more VIABLE planes that would be available and fight there... when it got calm or boring someone would say ... "great fight in the early war between ## and ##" and everyone would jump over to there.
It may be a problem with the very large and cumbersome squads but it is the cumbersome squads that is the problem not the arena.
Again... I will take what I can get "closer fields" but eventually we have to find a real solution rather than just pretending the problem doesn't exist.
wabbit.. where di I get drawings of the current maps?
lazs
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Originally posted by Toad
Do you really want to go through a litany of changes that have been made and evaluate whether everyone found them "beneficial"?
Surely you must agree, Toad, that the game has evolved in such a way that it was beneficial for more people than it was detrimental for others.
How many players flew AH the first year after beta?
How many subsciptions does HTC have now?
Double? Triple? Quadruple?
Air Warrior made mistakes when making changes. It's gone...now those players are HT's.
Warbirds....same deal. Still in existence, but a shadow of it's former self. Where did those players go? AH.
This game must be doing something right, lest it not be growing.
One more thing. What if the furs tested the CV idea WITHOUT any help from HTC?
Make a gentlemens agreement among the top scorers of each country. Select 3 ocean grids well out to see, and move 3 CVs there. Announce what your doing on each country channel to avoid interference. (I know I'll respect it)
Look at the maps, set the grids for each map, and make it known to all. Hell, I'll move a CV over there for you if I have the rank.
Finally, thanks to beetle..I can finally add to my sig!
(No offense Beetle. Your very well spoken, and seem quite intelligent. I tend to agree with the bulk of your posts, but I simply cannot resist this one.)
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now... just to confuse things a little more....
i suggest that "early/mid and late" refer to capabilities... most notably speed climb and acceleration... you obviously want parity so having a 190A1 in the early war area is a no no... convesely.. a late war zeke should still be in the early war. Fm2? not sure... make a F4f-3 and you actualy have an early war FM2. A spit 9 would be a mid war plane as would a corsair and hellcat... lots of room for arguement tho.
lazs
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Lazs,
You don't even have the arena yet, not sure if we're going to get it, and you're already starting to divi up the plane set.
A little premature, no?
Maybe you should take a break. Go on a trip and Pork some grumpy old men with Gay Abandon.:D :D :D
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muck... furballers aren't maw... we don't take orders and we don't organize. we do pay tho and we leave when something better comes along. Mostly we don't say anything when we do (unlike the "realism" and "organized" crowd) I am sure that HTC is well aware of this. I don't think you are capable of understanding us any more than we can understand you. We will continue to be the guys shaking our heads as we pass all the "lukes and darth vaders" on the sidwalk waiting to get into the latest star wars movie. We will never be tempted to join in on a huge board game of WWII that everyone emails their moves in on and takes months to play... we will build 500 HP big blocks and pedal to the metal or... some of the really perverted amungst us will even restore and fly old PT trainers.
Closer fields or an area arena would in no way drive people off to... to what? WB? AW? maybe WWII ol?
Area arena may hurt some of the "missun" thinking but... so what? we are getting an "missun" arena anyway.
and muck... I am only doing as suggested, no.... demanded... I am revealing my supersecret dioblical supervillan plot in all it's splendor. Take it as far as yu want. It can be done in easy little baby steps that won't overload the terminally timid and unimaginative. With luck they won't even notice things have been improved till months after they have.
lazs
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Oh lazs, you are such a cool rebel!
And you've got a cause!
If I bring in my Plymouth Voyager, can you put some mag wheels on it, and trick it out so I can stave off my midlife crisis another week?
Re-read some posts I've made, secret squirrel. I'm only trying to help with some ideas.
Do I give a rats arnold about your arena? Sure. I'd like to fly it too.
Do you bother to read anything I post, or do you simply see muckmaw, and your brain kicks over into schmuck mode?
What did you think about that CV idea about 2-3 posts up?
And contrary to what you think, I do understand your type.
Let me see if I can define it. You want the qucikest action possible, with the least amount of wasted time between takeoff and firing. You like huge down and dirty furballs, with guns blazing, hair on fire, play till your out of ammo, and limp home with half a plane, landing 2 or more kills. And above all, have a blast doing it.
That about right?
Guys like me...I can define.
I want a team based game with organized missions and goals that come as close to tewchnilogically possible to a recreation of WWII Land, Sea and Air engagements. I would like this game to be professionally managed, with good suppport and a good community. (I stuck that in before you said, go to WWIIOL)
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muck.. it is you who is not reading me. You are also every bit as insulting as I am. I find that less than refreshing when you attempt to chastise me in the same breath.
first you want me to tell what I want and then you tell me that I am telling you too much.. What I want can be taken in steps.
How did I know you drove a mini van? To me.... yur kind of strat ruins the game. It is no fun to be on either end of it... I don't want to be involved in one of your massive numbers raids that gangbang a field into submission nor do I want to be on the other end... but...
I won't try to stop you. Heck... you can call yourself general or camanding officer for all I care. No... what I want is some variety parity and action.
I believe that for those things to happen very little work is needed and it will affect whatever it is that you feel you are doing, very little.
closer fields will simply create an "area arena" but... it will be a vertical one. The slower early planes will be low and the late fast ones high... there will be some interaction at the close fields but not enough to ruin anyones fun. You can still merrily go n about taking lightly or undefended fields and saluting each other till your arms fall off.... HTC will anounce to me when you have "won the war" I don't want to have to be bothered with you until then.
Now... obviously..we do not like each others style of play. What you want (staus quo) forces us to be in conflict... What I want allows you to not be bothered with my silly furball antics and me to not be bothered with your role playing.
If you have a solution that would allow parity and variety I would be more than interested in hearing it.
lazs
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I’m all for wealazs’s furball volcano. Hate to see such a important crusade to change field spacing in a video game come to an end though. It’s been so interesting day after day after post after post after post.
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Originally posted by Toad
You are content because the game is apparently evolving in a way that generally satisfies you. That is what is most obvious in your signature block at present.
Surely you can see that there are many that are not happy because that same evolution provides less and less satisfaction to them?
I am content with the game as it is because that's how HTC designed it. And I have learned it in its current form. We have to learn to work with what we have. That is my principal beef with the fingerbobs. Mr. Toad, I have seen what happens when folks start tinkering with game parameters. I have seen the reaction of the silent majority of players in response to player induced game changes. Trust me - we don't want to go there. If you can prove to me that the fingerbob changes would benefit everyone, we'll talk again - green sig text would apply. Until that time, red (and purple) sig text apply. :D
Muckmaw - LOL! You can quote anything I say! You said
I want a team based game with organized missions and goals that come as close to technologically possible to a recreation of WWII Land, Sea and Air engagements. I would like this game to be professionally managed, with good support and a good community.
I'd very much like that too. But I must qualify that: Much though I abhor the thought of AH becoming a glorified chat room with a bit of furballing going on in the background, I wouldn't want to see us committed to 8-hour buff missions etc. As to organised missions, I don't like the missuns because of the numerical supremacy gangbangery they generate. Embarrassing though it is, I find myself in Lazs's camp on that issue. I'd be happy for bardar and missun editor to be turned off, so that STEALTH missions would be possible. For these and any other changes, I'd be happy for a popup poll to be taken at log-on, and to abide by the majority vote.
But wait... the missions that guys like Muckmaw and myself would like - isn't that what we're going to be getting in AH2?
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Lazs-
That was your best reply ever. Honestly. I must commed you on it.
However, I don't drive a mini-van. That was a joke. I alomost bought one, found I still had testicles, and bought a Monte Carlo SS instead.
What do you think of the CV idea, UNTIL HTC can consider/impliment the mini-arena, or closer fields idea?
I can grab a knight CV right now and move it out to a selceted grid square. We just need a Rook and a Bish with a low score to do the same, and broadcast our intentions so no one interferes.
Lazs, also, you have to remember. I enjoy a dogfight as well. Though I suspect I'm not like you, in that I prefer to get some alt (10K) so I have a chance to catch the late war rides in my F6F. Do I enjoy a down on the deck knife fight? Some of the best sorties I've ever flown were in FM2's below 1000 feet. Problem is, I can catch much with the bird, so I have to lure these guys into a turn fight.
When I have more time, I enjoy a good long Strat mission. Sorta like a mighty 8th type deal.
So I guess this makes me on the fence. I can see why you see me as an adversary, but in reality, I'm not.
What do you think about getting a Rook and A Bish to move the CV's into a adjacent Grid Squares right now?
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Lazs-
Right now Knight CV is being moved to cricle Grid Squad 7-6. I have command.
Get a rook and a Bish to do the same and we can test it out!
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Wipass grabbed the CV...someone with low rank move it to circle grid 7-6 and get the rooks and bish to circle adjacent grids and we've got a furball.
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Why not use what we have already? The mission planner is what you make of it, a mission could be bombers w/escorts or just as easily a fighter sweep. Why not coordinate fighter sweep missions between opposing sides. Just put them on a collision course, kinda like putting bugs in a jar and shaking them up.
Tinman
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No one seems interested in moving the CVs.
I boradcast the idea on channel one, only to be ignored.
*shrugs*
Guess everyone's out partying.
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Originally posted by beet1e
I have seen the reaction of the silent majority of players in response to player induced game changes
But Beet1e you experienced as I did a game that went the way of the vocal realists with the elimination of choice after choice ie: Plane availibility from specific fields, plane availibility via RPS, plane availibility via axis vs allied, radar restriction so silly that when I left it was 15 miles..
All changes in that game restricted choice. They strangled the game for the realists. At this very moment those on dialup over there are choking down a 200+meg download of a 1 to 1 Europe map with no GPS so 23 guys can experience "what it was like" while in full uniform using an official WWII flight computor for navigation..
Suggestions in THIS discussion as to field distance, fuel and CV issues increase choice.
If they don't, please explain in a logical point by point way how they don't and in effect restrict game play for all.
No dodging, I tried reeeely hard to spell everything correctly.
I await your answer...
I will start holding my breath now..
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Originally posted by beet1e
I am content with the game as it is because that's how HTC designed it.
Horse poop.
You are content with a game that has radically evolved from what HTC designed. And a greater part of the evolutionary changes were probably suggested by the player base "fingerbobs" than thought up solely by HTC.
I keep forgetting that you haven't really been here all that long, considering the evolutionary timeline of AH.
The changes are too numerous to list and there's not much point in a long laundry list anyway. Suffice it to say that the game you are content with right now is as much a result of small special interest groups suggesting, arguing and whining on the BBS as it is a result of divine inspiration in Grapevine.
So you're whole premise, this "object to tinkering which seeks to alter the overall gameplay style for the benefit of some but the detriment of others" is simply hay that has been run through a horse's intestinal tract.
The game you are now content with reached it's present state because of tinkering which seeks to alter the overall gameplay style for the benefit of some but the detriment of others.
Simple fact.
And that tinkering has always and will always go on. Nature of the beast.
Of course, now that YOU are satisfied, detrimental tinkering must stop. And who is the "tinkering judge and jury"? Why Beet1e, of course! How obvious, eh? You'll decide which tinkering is to be allowed. :D
Nah...... like always, it'll be HTC. And like always, this BBS will be full of threads like this one. Suggesting all sorts of tinkering.
Originally posted by beet1e
And I have learned it in its current form. We have to learn to work with what we have... If you can prove to me that the fingerbob changes would benefit everyone, we'll talk again - green sig text would apply. Until that time, red (and purple) sig text apply. :D
The proof is quite easy. The game you are playing now is a direct result of "fingerbob changes" that happened long before you showed up here and since you showed up here. QED.
And if we "have to learn to work with what we have" then nothing would have changed since the initial debut of the pure ACM game that was AH years ago. :p
Oh... one last thing.... ONCE AGAIN, since you're dedicated to ignoring this cruicial element of the current discussion:
The Aircraft Furball Arena Within An Arena would not affect the way YOU play this game in any way at all. You could still have your "strateegery" and cosmic, orgasmic war winning messages.
It would merely be an OPTION for those who chose to participate and WOULD NOT AFFECT those who chose NOT to participate.
And, since you've repeated claimed you're a big fan of choice, I'm sure you support this concept.
BTW, have you given up on your desire for an RPS yet, choice-meister?
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how gay this is....
u freakn mooroons
we have all this
laz..u dsaying u cant find instant furbalss 24 hours a day?? no sht...me too
i do everything in this game..
if im on just to furball..i can find it..i up my Slurricane and shoot down everyone that comes close to me..(sure cant chase them)
yes again once inawhile fuel is porked...either fly farther...or wait for 1)_ fuel to comebak 2) base to be captured..
i findf furbALLS 95% OF MY TIME WHEN I LOG ON..
if u cant find action..you must be one of those poor bastards who always lose their keys/ or just have a ruff life in general
Like tiger town..im sure a ftr town could work also..it would be easy..
BUT we alwats have some jerkooof trying to capture Tiger Town hangsars..i was teling this young buck to beat it..we are battling...he goes off and captures all the Bases in Tiger Town..i was pissed..fuking ahole
Sam,e thing would happen in ftr town...
Muck thts why CV battle would not work..we have people in here who like to ruin good times for the majoprity/...
but it doesnt happen all the time so it can work the majority of the time
Anyways..im locking this thread --- crap someone changhed the lok and didnt gimme the new keys.,.arghhh
THIS GAME IS ALMOST PERFECT!!! I love it..Salute HTC and Crew
and Laz..u dont know much about the Marine Air Wing...lot of us love furballing...hell thts all they do except on certain squad nights..
anyways..u guys suk..
Love
BiGB
xoxo
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This thread began as one of the most eloquent summaries of strat vs. fur and has lived to become one of the longest.
Furballing is tactical dueling on relatively level playing fields -- fun for both sides. Strategic campaigning ploughs up the playing fields and buries enemy toys -- fun for winners, not for losers.
Plenty of room in Aces High for both except in the final stages of being on the wrong side of a strategic campaign. Then reset rejuvenates the jungle. Is this a great game or what?
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yes halo..i do love this game right now
they did a DAm good job balancing game play..excellent job
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Lazs/Toad,
Have either of you talked to Hitech about your proposed changes? It occurs to me this discussion is moot (at best) if the game designer doesn't want to move his game in that direction.
Toad, you used the word "evolving" in discussing game changes. Are you sure that's what's happening? From my limited pov, it seems like Hitech has an ultimate goal in mind and he's simply moving the game towards that goal.
I may be wrong, but I don't believe strat and furballs will work in the same arena. Furballers want the fields closer together and that makes many strategic objectives difficult (if not impossible) to atchieve.
AH2 seems to be as far from the furball concept as you can get. And, AH2 is the future of Aces High.
But, we're going to keep the main arena, right? Maybe you can persuade Hitech to populate the MA with maps like Mindanao ...
Why not call HTC? Why not ask if he will entertain the notion of a *pure* furball arena? Several folks have volunteered to create the map if you 1) get HTCs agreement and 2) specify the map details.
curly
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ROFL Mr. Toad! I can always tell when you're rattled by the height of your wall. Just divide the number of words in your wall by the number of words in the one I wrote which elicited your wall, and the quotient is the Toad rattle factor - lol.
I've said all that needs to be said. I've argued against changing a terrain to bring about a certain mode of gameplay, and Skuzzy agrees with me. That's as close a confirmation as I need to assure me that the fingerbob terrain tweaks/nudges are not going to happen. :D So no need to keep busting my chops about it.
As for moving the fields closer together, I think that's an idea that needs to be treated with caution. I was online yesterday just before Skuzzy reset the arena to the Mindano map. I had been involved in a 3v3 fight, but bailed after killing the last Spit. When I came back about an hour later, there were about 10 TYPHs taking off for a no-skill-repeated-reuppage-numerical-supremacy-smashdown raid. And I thought, oh no, not this crap again... and I logged off. Unfortunately, that's the crappy gameplay that's engendered by the children's maps, because suicide and reuppage become so much more feasible when the fields are only 5 minutes apart. Fortunately, this isn't as much of a problem during Euro hours, and was only a problem yesterday because of the American holiday, with many more people online than is usual at that time.
Fine if that's what you want, but it's not what I want. And HTC knows it's not what I want, and so at my request they are developing a new and better game - AH2. They even chose the name Aces High, knowing it would get abbreviated to AH, those being my real life initials. :D
Nopoop - of course AH has evolved over the years, but to the benefit of everyone. Buffs now fly in formations of three, but the 163 is now available for those who want to shoot them down. Nice balancing act. It's changes to benefit a small subset of players that I don't like, because then you've got to make changes to placate another subset of players who became disgruntled by the first set of changes. Then you reach the mess and confusion that we left behind in WB, in which you never knew from one day to the next how much ord would be needed to destroy a strat target, or how your plane would fly, or how strong buff otto would be, or whether a Spit1a could still outturn a 109E (as it should) or - wait a minute - today's Saturday, so the 109E outturns the Spit1a today...
I say let HTC get on with it. They've been brilliant so far, and things are about to get better. :)
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AH has evolved.. anyone here a while recalls the 100 plus threads on changing the 1.03 FM. There have been changes in infinity... fields have been (in effect) moved closer after a similar discussion to this.
AK.. yeah I talked to HT at the con about the area arena... he thought it would never work at first but started to consider it after I explained a little better and he realized that I wanted seperate resets. Also... closer fields don't make strat any worse. they stratify the gameplay... low alt for slow planes, high for fast.
Yep...AH2.. that will be the thing. If we are headed toward role playing then that will prove it... The arenas will decide.. If people want to wait in the tower for half an hour to participate in a missun then they will be in that arena but... Let's fix the MA for now... It won't be "your" arena anyhow if you are a strat/missun guy.
I fight alsongside some maw... but very few.. even 10k is too high for you to be in the fights I find most often...The maw are knit and I rarely fight alongside more than 2 or three of the 80 guys they have... not exactly a "furballin" squad in my opinion.
lazs
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still... this thread is worthwhile if only in the fact that it burned through the alkie fog of both the great comentator of all things social, creamo, and his companion in booze and gutters... bbgmaw
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The amount of text is directly proportional to Beet1e's obtuseness.
And the latest post proves that he's either trolling again or he is indeed obtuse beyond all measure.
AH is where it is today because of game changes suggested by both the players and HTC. The idea that the players don't tweak and nudge the game as much as HTC is delusional fantasy. HTC has always been VERY responsive to the community; it's a prime reason for the success.
So, threads like these suggesting changes will continue and some ideas will even be implemented.
The MA and AH2 will co-exist. Those who think the AH2 "mission arena" is the "future" of HTC's vision either don't fully understand what they've said about it or perhaps haven't talked to them. AH2 is primarily about a new graphics engine. Hear it now, believe it later.
I note Beet1e, that you again side step the issue of an Aircraft Furball Arena Within An Arena based upon the Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena. It exists, it works. It lets Tankers furball while the rest of the MA plays steamroller. Something similar would work for aircraft, and probably make guys like Laz and I very happy.
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Curly,
I think HT does have a goal and a roadmap but as we've seen, his company is also very adept at taking player input and including it into the plan. For example, and this is mostly intuition, I think the "mission arena" idea wasn't in the original roadmap. It's a response to a faction in the community.
I actually think it's a detour. :D My personal opinion is that it's being done to mollify a portion of the paying community so that work can then continue towards the true goal. But there's no proof of that; it may have been in the plan all along.
I have heard him talk about other aspects of gameplay that have not yet been implemented but have had the necessary provisions included in the basic programming for a long, long time.
Originally posted by AKcurly
I may be wrong, but I don't believe strat and furballs will work in the same arena. Furballers want the fields closer together and that makes many strategic objectives difficult (if not impossible) to atchieve.
Yeah, you're wrong. :D
Strat and Furball already works on the Trinity map. The Tankers are Furballing in Tank Town and it has essentially no effect whatsoever on what passes for "strat" on the rest of the map.
We just need an Aircraft Furball Arena Within An Arena similar to the Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena also known as Tank Town on Trinity.
Originally posted by AKcurly
1) get HTCs agreement and 2) specify the map details.
curly
After the Con and after Oshkosh, I probably will talk to him about giving the CV Furball idea a try. I think it'd satisfy a lot of folks that don't care for the no-skill-repeated-reuppage-numerical-supremacy-smashdown raids that are the basis for ALL strat on ALL maps. ;)
The problem I see with the CV idea though is that it's going to take more "sea room" than the Tank Town takes up on Trinity. But I'm still thinking about it and sketching things out now and then.
If it's possible to create "airfields" in the terrain editor that have no VH and no BH attributes, then it would be much easier and take less space than CV's.
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Originally posted by Toad
And the latest post proves that he's either trolling again or he is indeed obtuse beyond all measure.
ROFL! ...and you just can't figure out which one it is. :D:D
An arena within an arena? Why not. But why not just have two separate arenas? The DA is just begging to be used...
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I just assume you're trolling. It's you're style, seems to be the way you get your jollies.
Originally posted by beet1e
An arena within an arena? Why not. But why not just have two separate arenas? The DA is just begging to be used...
Why don't you ask that of the folks enjoying Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena also known as Tank Town on Trinity?
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Originally posted by Toad
I just assume you're trolling. It's you're style, seems to be the way you get your jollies.
But then again, your assumptions have been well wide of the mark in the past... ;)
We did have an arena within an arena arrangement of sorts in WB about two years ago. Sinbad designed it, and it was called the "Generations Concept". I liked it very much. The map was divided so that you had a Pacific area, where IJN planes would fight USN planes, and a European area where you would find Spit v 109 etc. There were other areas too. Of course, the concept was too complicated for some people, who could not understand why all the planes were not available at all the airfields all the time. I think they thought it was an infringement of their "freedom".
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I like furballs as much as the next guy, even if he's Lazs. I'll even fight, for a while, in a furball that has become lopsided. Don't most furballs end, not because of the "flying accountants" (hey, what a kewl name for a squad) doing their strat thing, but rather because one side usually gains numbers turning it into a gangbang?
I don't think you guys have thought this far enough through yet.
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Originally posted by lazs2
AH has evolved.. anyone here a while recalls the 100 plus threads on changing the 1.03 FM. There have been changes in infinity... fields have been (in effect) moved closer after a similar discussion to this.
Lazs, it was an error correction. Yeah, I guess you're right about the trinity fields - but Trinity isn't Aces High - Trinity is a map.
curly
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Toad said:
I actually think it's a detour. My personal opinion is that it's being done to mollify a portion of the paying community so that work can then continue towards the true goal. But there's no proof of that; it may have
been in the plan all along.
Ok, fair enough - probably accurate too.
AKcurly said:
I may be wrong, but I don't believe strat and furballs will work inthe same arena. Furballers want the fields closer together and that makes
many strategic objectives difficult (if not impossible) to atchieve.
Toad sez:Yeah, you're wrong.
Maybe so. :) But, I will be really surprised to learn that HTC is going to make changes in the game engine to accomodate you guys -- we'll see.
Strat and Furball already works on the Trinity map. The Tankers are Furballing in Tank Town and it has essentially no effect whatsoever on
what passes for "strat" on the rest of the map.
We just need an Aircraft Furball Arena Within An Arena similar to the Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena also known as Tank Town on Trinity.
The tank thing works until one side decides it's going to win the war. At that point, the tanker thing vanishes.
Your "Arena within an Arena" concept will fail miserably. Here's why:
When the tanker guys lose their area, most just get in airplanes and continue with the game. When you/lazs lose your last furball area, you guys are going to turn channel 1 blue with your protests and exit the arena -- much like your reaction to a sunk CV
Even a cursory examination of the "Arena within an Arena" reveals it won't work unless HTC modifies his game engine (makes certain fields
uncapturable & etc.) If you believe he's going to do that, I have some real estate in Florida I would like to sell you.
After the Con and after Oshkosh, I probably will talk to him about giving the CV Furball idea a try. I think it'd satisfy a lot of folks that don't care for the no-skill-repeated-reuppage-numerical-supremacy-smashdown raids thatare the basis for ALL strat on ALL maps.
Really strange to hear you say combative things like that Toad Either you don't remember what you guys (TAS) used to say about the or your thinking has changed If your thinking has changed, that's cool, but why make denigrating remarks towards the part of the community that infrequently furball?
The problem I see with the CV idea though is that it's going to take more "sea room" than the Tank Town takes up on Trinity. But I'm still thinking
about it and sketching things out now and then.
Sure. A separate arena would be ideal. I don't read the AH2 BBS much, but I gathered there will be two separate arenas -- TOD and AH Classic. Why not work on convincing HTC to make AH Classic a furball arena?
curly
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The Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena known as "Tank Town on Trinity" shows the concept works.
Why not have something similar for aircraft?
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Originally posted by Toad
The Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena known as "Tank Town on Trinity" shows the concept works.
Why not have something similar for aircraft?
Because it won't work? See above post.
curly
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Originally posted by AKcurly
When you/lazs lose your last furball area, you guys are going to turn channel 1 blue with your protests and exit the arena -- much like your reaction to a sunk CV
[/b]
C'mon Curly... when it gets boring I just log. Laz probably does too. Yeah, I said "well, CV's sunk, best fight on the map is over, cyas"
If that's turning channel 1 blue.. yer colorblind. ;)
Originally posted by AKcurly
Really strange to hear you say combative things like that Toad
That's a "beetle-im" Curly. It's a direct quote, see a few posts up. I was mocking him a bit, sorry. Just another example of him being for choice.
Note again I'm only asking for a Tank Town type operation WHICH IN NO WAY AFFECTS THE REST OF THE MA.
My sig block stands. ;)
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I was on yesterday furballing between A2 and A44......
The strat guys were all complaining that the furball there was draining resources for the mother of all resets or somesuch. And Habu was on about how the furball is a waste of resources...blah blah blah...and how A44 needed to be either porked, captured or both for the greater good of bishlandia.
THAT's the problem.....one side can and does influence how the game is played......and the strat guys don't like seeing a furball happen. They think it's a waste of everyone's time and resources.
So what....if THAT big of a furball was going on, don't ya think ALOT of people liked it that way????
And geewhiz, they didn't even have to go to some DA or something. The point here is not to seperate the masses, ala someone's suggestion, but to accomodate different game styles within the hundreds of people found in the MA on a daily basis.
Why do the strat guys hate to see a furball develop so much??
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Originally posted by Mr. Toad
Note again I'm only asking for a Tank Town type operation WHICH IN NO WAY AFFECTS THE REST OF THE MA.
;) Mr. Toad.
Mr. Toad's utopian vision for the MA in no way threatens the strat players - it's just plain redikulolous. :D
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Originally posted by Stringer
Why do the strat guys hate to see a furball develop so much??
I think you're generalizing here.
I'm a self-proclaimed strat guy with a minor in furballing, and I could'nt care less if there's a huge furball going on.
If people are having fun, great.
There's always enough people to gather 10 together for a mission to take out and capture a field.
*shrugs*
Massive furballs never bothered me.
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Originally posted by Stringer
Why do the strat guys hate to see a furball develop so much??
because, son, there's a war to be won!!! this is no time to be off doing something that doesn't help the war effort!!!
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and his companion in booze and gutters... bbgmaw
lmfao..i wish u could smell the puke
and MAW dont all furball..some of our guys caN BARely get off the runway..we take all types..so saying MAW dont furball is part wrong part right..we do have many ftrs the..ice-urb Bg-40dog-me BiGB-Amreo-Slapshot-T2-and many others.so stfu with ur clumping all togeter..yeswhen sqaud nght we all work togeytehr..
fuk this game is finre right now...u telln me u cant fly early war in hewre????lmfao..i suppose next thing u want no vulching?
Sht i fly a hurricane alot..slow as hell..but dam fun...i never fly more then 1 sectr away from base tho..
give it a break nerds...
actaully keep typing...just a few less monkys in the MA:p
Love
BiGB
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Originally posted by beet1e
;) Mr. Toad.
Mr. Toad's utopian vision for the MA in no way threatens the strat players - it's just plain redikulolous. :D
No matter how "redikulolous" I may be or may become, I'll never hold a candle to you.
BTW, the "Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena" is NB's vision. I'd have never thought of an Aircraft Furball Arena Within An Arena without his trailblazing vision. So, all credit is really due NB.
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Originally posted by Toad
No matter how "redikulolous" I may be or may become, I'll never hold a candle to you.
BTW, the "Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena" is NB's vision. I'd have never thought of an Aircraft Furball Arena Within An Arena without his trailblazing vision. So, all credit is really due NB.
ROFL! Gotta love ole Bufo Marinus. :D
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Beetle why don't you try some diversity in your posts. The Mr. Toad thing is dumb and boring and you keep repeating yourself over and over.
You have some good points but they are integrated with your old banter that you somehow think is amusing to all and makes you a BBS hero.
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OK Beemer... it was late, I was tired, and the Chilean Merlot had been flowing... In future, I shall try to make my posts the way you want them. Geez, you guys want us all to fly your way, now you want us all to POST your way. I abide by the BBS rules (written and unwritten) with regard to issues like profanity, decency and courtesy. I avoid making personal insults. Too bad if this isn't good enough for you. Other than that, I am unaware of rules governing the content of posts, except that they should be on topic in the Discussion forum. No harm in having a bit of fun with Mr. Toad. He has plenty of fun at my expense - or didn't you notice? No, of course you didn't.
Back on topic: As I understand it, it takes months of work to come up with Aces High maps. It's no easy matter to just add an area for furballers, build a 50,000' wall around it, and hope to integrate that into the existing system of map resets. Those changes would be needed not just to the Trinity map, but to all other maps as well. Months of work for someone.
But the DA is already there, has none of the strat nonsense that is so despised by the furballers, and could be used immediately, without gameplay changes and without map changes. Better still, if the furballers were to migrate there, we strat guys would no longer face the daily calls to "perk this" or "harden that" or "nudge the other". I see those proposals as mandates to play a certain way. The furballers want the HQ radar building to be "hardened" because thay don't like the fact that it can be destroyed by bombs. But the whole point of a bomb is to destroy an object on the surface. If that is no longer an option, either because bombs have been perked out of reach or because the bombs have insufficient effect, the buffs/jabos will simply give up, which is what the furballers really want. The furballers will have succeeded in modifying gameplay, and forcing the would be jabos/buffs to fly the furballers' way. Purple sig text applies.
Another call I'm half expecting the furballers to make is for Trinity tank town V-bases to be converted to airfields. But then we'd have P47s taking off from there (is it 15K?) to go and beat up other areas of the map.
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Beetle..............I think all the so called furballers are asking for is as lazs says "parity" .
Nothing spoils a good fite like having the fuel porked or a CV sunk by kamikaze game play . Imagine if your fun<<>>were spoiled by one suicide furballer.
This especially becomes relevent on bigger maps when the only close fite may be a CV or 2 fields out of 100 that are in close proximity provide the only action on a map.
Strat can and does dictate game play for 80% of the MA. To say if you don't like it go elsewhere only fuels a fire that keeps posts like this one burning on and on.
As far as the map makers and thier hard work
The Toads and lazs and NoPoop's of AH maybe could or couldn't make a map as everyone suggests , but I'd be willing to bet that the same applys to the strat guys who advocate as loud as anyone that the maps are just fine asis.
Oh yea . if you don't agree with any thing I'm saying......
beetlejuice-----beetlejuice-------beetlejuice
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curly.. moving the fields closer is what has hapened to infinity. It could happent to a lot of fields. It would help gameplay.
When I suggessted the 163 be brought to AH it was said that it was part of my diobolical super secret plat to end strat as we know it. why, if we had the 163 then 1 person could destroy the hard work of...of..of well, 1 person who was out to destroy the game for dozens or more people with his dumb HQ raid.
parity variety and action.. say what you will but if you lose those things you will lose players... I think even the nerdiest strat guy knows that as the new players develop some skill they are gonna get bored with the steamroller... for sure HTC can see it coming. We better get some choice going before then. Not enough stamp collectors to keep the doors open if a new sim starts up that offers something for more people.
beetle.. generations... that was a great concept ruined.... generations was an alternative to RPS "date of introduction" it lumped planes of all types together based on performance. It fell down because they made the huge goof of then making it "allied against axis" they destroyed all the parity they had worked so haard for in one fell swoop. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
bbg... like I said... bout four guys worth a damn... you will probly lose em.
lazs
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Beetle....
Can you not get the simple fact that no one is asking you to alter your style of play....by all means, do what you want to do.
Some would just like to have some different options which allow access to quicker fights, more of them and finally, allowing the use of early war planes to become more feasable.
A seperate early war arena is a bad idea imo...the community needs coherence....simply bring the fields closer together on these large maps and much would be added for those who do not relish the participation in the strat thingie.
The only other change I would like to see is that of the fuel porking....strat guys need to be able to pork enemy resources, but it should take more than one plane to do so.
Why would you have a problem with that?
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I rarely fly the combat theater simply because it takes too long to find a fight and when I do find one, it's invariably 3 to 1. I always look at the room counter prior to logging into the MA and the CT will be anywhere from 0 to 50. I don't know what they average.
I can't think of the CT as a success because they try so hard to get MA guys in the CT. The point of the CT is the correct airplane mix. You don't see spits fighting spits.
I think the MA has a certain inertia ... guys are used to going there. Who knows, if the MA server went down for 3 days and we were all forced to go to the CT, it's possible that most of us would never fly the MA again.
Let's suppose, just for the sake of an argument, that HTC created a FA (furball arena), not a "arena within a arena", but an arena devoted to the type of game play some of you want.
How many guys would go there? I'll bet the number would be surprisingly low - maybe 30 or 40. But, a FA would be a resounding success with 40 airplanes, right?
Why aren't you guys agitating to create a FA instead of creating pressure to change the MA? It seems to me the "arena within an arena" carries a significant risk of making everyone very unhappy.
curly
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curly... if you had an early war area within the arena it could not possibly make anyone unhappy... you could simply ignore it if you weren't interested. just like tank town.
It would not have any effect on the rest of the arena... you could still fly early war planes from the rest of the arena... all features and planes would be enabled in the entire arena except the small part that would be early war planes only soo....
what do you see as a potential problem with it? People who wanted to furball early war planes for a sortie now and then could click on a early war field and do it... one more click and they are back in the old main. Maybe there would never be more than 50-100 guys there at one time but.... there would probly be a core of about 40 and... best of all... there would allways be 25-50 or more guys there who just wanted to fly a few "hair on fire sorties" and then go back to the extremely gratifying and complex strat and high alt foxhole, steamroller of the normal MA..
people could switch seamlessly and still keep abreast of what was going on with the rest of the community.
lazs
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Originally posted by AKcurly
Why aren't you guys agitating to create a FA instead of creating pressure to change the MA ?
The game over the hill has about 12 arenas that divides the current census over there of fifty quite well.
They have an arena for just about every combination you want. There all empty.
The MA is the sandbox. The front door. Changes to field distances along with addressing fuel and CV issues does little in the overall scheme of things except maybe increase some choices.
I don't want a seperate arena or an arena within one for that matter.
Bump some fields closer as has been done on trinity, hash out an equatable solution to fuel porkage and suicide dweebery and play.
It ain't a make or break proposition, have a great time here. Somewhere, somehow discussion is frowned upon.
And through this whole thread in all these posts, I haven't come across ONE logical reason posted by anyone why field locations, and fuel porkage changes would not improve the game.
Not one.
Whole lot of Beet1e nonsense, but he never gives a reason, other than "Skuzzy says so" or we must "adapt"
If there was just one reason, we could discuss it, I'm still waiting for the other sides position on why it would hurt the game instead of help it.
You'd think with a couple of hundred replies someone would have a counterpoint beside "Go to the DA" "Make your own map".
If the counterpoint is there, it must be a mother to find..
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Originally posted by lazs2
what do you see as a potential problem with it?
If Hitech altered his game engine so that fields could be designated "uncapturable" and therefore not affect the outcome of the war, I guess it could work.
But, if the fields can be captured, then it will surely happen. And when it does happen, the furball guys won't have a place to fight. Can you spell unhappy? :)
I can already see the private messages flowing back and forth:
Lazs (private): curly, the maws are trying to sneak A14 (part of the furball area.)
I was in the MA the other evening when you guys had a nice furball going (cv approaching a base.) Inevitably, the CV got too close to the field and a strat guy (worried about field capture) took the CV out.
One of the furballers said (words to the effect): "You just had to kill the CV, didn't you? Do you realize that you just ruined the fun for 30 guys?" And then he logged in disgust.
Lazs, why should we set a situation up where it's 100% guaranteed that you will have giantic squabbles within one country over whether a field should be captured?
Lazs, once on NDISLEs, the bish were one field short of winning the war. I believe the Knights were losing - they had 1 CV and 1 airfield left.
So, I upped a buff to kill the CV. One of my bish country mates immediately tried to talk me out of sinking the CV. He wanted to furball. Well, from my point of view, he made a valid request - I was about to interfere with his game play. From my point of view, the CV had to be killed.
I think situations like that are detrimental to gameplay.
curly
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curly.. you have not been paying attention. If there were an area within the arena for early war planes then they would have SEPERATE resets. There would allways be a place for everyone.
A fighter arena like tank town could be wiped out and, given the nature of the attention starve, probly would be some of the time but... it would be better than nothing. I have never advocated it but wouldn't be oppossed to it. I think that whole squads working to ruin the fun of the area would just point out what d##k heads they were tho... the obvious would be..... obvious.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
curly.. you have not been paying attention. If there were an area within the arena for early war planes then they would have SEPERATE resets. There would allways be a place for everyone.
Yes I have, Lazs. Didn't you see my qualification : It would probably work if Hitech alters his game engine?
A fighter arena like tank town could be wiped out and, given the nature of the attention starve, probly would be some of the time but... it would be better than nothing. I have never advocated it but wouldn't be oppossed to it. I think that whole squads working to ruin the fun of the area would just point out what d##k heads they were tho... the obvious would be..... obvious.
lazs
Lazs, read the paragraph you just wrote. If I participate in AH the way I want to participate, then I'm an attention starved d##k head.
When I login to Aces High, my agenda isn't to ruin your fun. My agenda is to capture every base I can and kill any plane/gv that opposes me.
I'll have to admit tho, folks calling me an attention starved d##k head might give me a new agenda. And that's exactly why the "arena within an arena" concept won't work.
curly
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A "fighter town" area in the MA is an old idea going back many years. We even discussed dedicating an area for this when we made the desert map. I can't remember why we didn't, most likely it was because hitech didn't want it, could be wrong though. If hitech doesn't want uncaptureable fields I think you're going to need a lot stronger argument to change his mind.
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Oh no, I'm the target of a 13th AS BBS gangbang!!
Sax, Beet1ejuice does not apply because actually I do agree with some of what you say, especially the part about the CV kamikaze dweebs. I may have porked fuel, but have never suicided to achieve it. The layout of the map is open to debate. I see nothing wrong with having the gentlemen you mentioned developing a new map with closer fields, and for this map to enter the weekly cycle in much the same way that the AK guys developed the Pizza.
Rude, see the above. I'm indifferent to field spacing. But I don't think you've read all I had to say, in particular what happened after terrain rollover yesterday. Things had been good on Trinity, but as soon as Mindano came up, the Bish began their TYPH missuns. Suiciding and reuppage become so much more feasible when the fields are closer together, as on the children's maps. That's the problem I have with fields being moved closer together. But much worse are these player initiatives to harden targets etc. You say that it should need more than one plane to take out the fuel. Why should it? Can you give a better reason other than "because that's the way you'd like it"? Still seems to me that the furballers won't be satisfied until the teeth and claws of the buffs and jabos have been drawn, and the only thing left to do is to furball - or to quit. Purple sig text applies.
Lazs, Generations in WB was never given the chance it deserved. It was mothballed after only one tour, and that was not a fair shake.
As for having an early war area within an arena, with an independent reset, and moving fields around as if they were furniture, I don't think some of the guys suggesting these changes have ever done any programming. I have never done any game programming, but I do know that what might seem like a minor change to some could involve a major system rewrite. Map development is a huge enterprise, and as HTC has already told us, the game is not set up to allow for subarena reset. To implement that change could be hugely costly in terms of coding effort and testing... and at the end of the day, people will still be whining about the outcome. So I predict that HTC will do the most sensible thing of all: Nothing.
Nopoop, I have given reasons - and do so again here. Not my fault if you can't read.
Curly - I have been flying in the CT in the past month. And I would have flown last week but there was an early war scenario up, and I'm not much of an early war guy. But I will definitely go there this week now that Mindano is up in the MA. I recommend it. The atmosphere is so much more gentlemanly. People each other after a good fight, and there is none of the Ch-1 trash talk - all that "your momma" crap etc. So give it another go. Even on Euro hours, I was finding 3v3 engagements.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Oh no, I'm the target of a 13th AS BBS gangbang!!
Gangbang? No. Icon of Squad humor.... maybe.
Originally posted by beet1e
Rude, see the above. I'm indifferent to field spacing. ...Suiciding and reuppage become so much more feasible when the fields are closer together, as on the children's maps. That's the problem I have with fields being moved closer together.
I mean, who can not laugh at those red sentences cohabitating the same paragraph?
And you do it all the time.
But, listen...I DO appreciate it. I get more laughs out of reading your stuff on the BBS than I do from any other part of my day.
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Beetle is your best source of comedy entertainment for the day?
wow
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Yep. Been some pretty awful/sad days around here lately. People dying, going into the hospital, etc. Not much to laugh at in real life.
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Your breaking my heart.
Could be worse. You could be a parrot of laz and be consumed about how a online video game is played, prompting people to believe if you fly early war planes and only dogfight in a goofy video game, your extra special. Or just as bad, making up fictional characters like strats, furs, and griefers just to argue about them in that same video game every single day, week in, week out. I mean, then your life would be ass.
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Mr. Toad! I haven't seen you all day, and was beginning to worry about you. Welcome back! I'm glad you're so easily amused - and they say humour doesn't travel - but what do *they* know... :D When I saw your quote of me, I started wondering if I'd slipped up in some way. I am indeed indifferent to field spacing - perhaps I should have qualified that by adding that they can move 'em further apart if they want to, or have the pizza map up permanently. ;) But moving the fields even closer together? What, a 5 minute flight to the nearest base is too long?
Don't know what to make of this post, Mr. Toad. I'm starting to feel that you're losing it. So I'll just sit here, drink a tipple of vodka (Finlandia, with Absolut to follow) and juice, and raise my glass to Creamo.
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Originally posted by beet1e
...and raise my glass to Creamo.
Raise it, but I am pretty sure he's poking fun at you too.
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lolol lmfao lazs..lose them ya right...onlyhen AH goes under..( hopefully never)
i have no problem with a Tiger town like area with ftrs insteAD..in fact i would be there often...
im just laffing at the whines now....you can furball fine right now...yes not always going to find the less then 25 mile fight...
But the BS about everyone suciding jabos cv is BSSSS
we like to level bom them..MAW tht is..cause we like the challenge
but owell..Again..dont cry..Bust out you map editor and start ur work:)
off to PORK Fuel-Ammo-Barraks at all front line bases now....Youknow why?? cause my right hand is brokn..only thing i can do to help the Knights out..!! weeeeeeeee booom
Love BiGB
xoxo
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"When" Creamo speaks I have visions of him squated down in the center of a room devoid of furniture playing with knives making gutteral mumblings out of the side of his neck..
Am I alone in this ???
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Originally posted by Creamo
I mean, then your life would be ass.
But that still wouldn't be nearly as bad much as if you thought that cowl flaps were a really important gaming aspect of an acm game.
Beetle, the hospital doesn't have a public internet browsing station. You'll just have to wait until I take breaks. Like now. Ta-ta.
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Mr. Toad,
What kind of break are you taking? Does it involve a drink? If so, and when you have finished, hold the empty drinking vessel to your ear, and listen carefully. That sound you can hear - that's the sound of HTC working on your map changes.
Muhahahahaha! :D:D
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I dont consider myself a strat guy. I mean, I may jump in on the offhand base capture if there are multiple FDBs in the arena and we happen to deack a base and have a fairly good vulch going and someone decides they want to bring a goon.
I also dont consider myself a furball guy. I mean, I like to mix it up high or low in most cases as long as the sides are fairly even. My problem is that I hate the small maps.....absolutely despise them. There is no way to avoid the gangbangs on the small maps. It doesnt matter where you go, the fronts are so small that there is always a horde on the way to whatever base you want to fly from. At least on the bigger maps, you can head out to a base along the perimeter of the front and rustle up some action that is usually even for both sides but doesnt turn into a huge gangbang. Maybe 5 on 5 or so.
I have to say though that a lot of the squeaking and moaning lately has gotten extremely repetitive. I think some folks are just squeaking because they got nothing better to do. If the game gets under your skin that badly, maybe its time for a break. You would be surprised how good a short break is...even if its only a couple of weeks.
This is supposed to be fun....getting all worked into a frenzy because your fields are too far apart or those damn furballers arent playing right is ridiculous. Relax....take a deep breath...its gonna be all right. Really.
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curly... you are NOT payintg attention... the early war area that I am talking about would not be accessable to late war planes... you couldn't get there and pork anything in a late war plane. Get it? both it and the regular area would have caturable fields and both would have seperate resets... when you captured one countries 7 or so early war fields then you would (lol) "win the early war".
so what is the potential problem again?
I can see the potential problems with the other idea of a place like tank town.... That wasn't my idea... it would be better than nothing but it wouldn't last.
lazs
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creamo... if you claim that nothing is wrong with the game or gameplay and then your stats show that yu don't even play... then.. your stats do take on meaning.
Same goes with a lot of folk... when they tell me that I am doing something wrong because they have "no trouble" finding any kind of fight they want "anytime they want" and then their stats show that they fight only one way and that it is nothing like the way I would want to spend my time.... Well... then their stats are relevant.
If you want to defend the status quo based on the fact that it suits your style... fine.. If you want to defend it based on the lie that it suits mine and that I just don't know how to use it... well, then you had better have the stats to back it up.
lazs
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Can you give a better reason other than "because that's the way you'd like it"?
Beetle....
How about it never happened in RL? One single aircraft penetrating enemy airspace, single handedly wiping out an entire bases fuel.
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Originally posted by Rude
Beetle....
How about it never happened in RL? One single aircraft penetrating enemy airspace, single handedly wiping out an entire bases fuel.
It would have if no one bothered to intercept it.
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Originally posted by Rude
Beetle....
How about it never happened in RL? One single aircraft penetrating enemy airspace, single handedly wiping out an entire bases fuel.
Enola Gay?
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Originally posted by Rude
Beetle....
How about it never happened in RL? One single aircraft penetrating enemy airspace, single handedly wiping out an entire bases fuel.
Well, if we're going to talk about RL, what's all this about wanting the fields to be less than 5 minutes apart? I don't think that happened in WW2 either. 190 fighting 190, Spit fighting Spit? Nope, pretty sure that didn't happen either. Seems like Selective Realism™ is at work again.
Sling322 - I hate the small maps.....absolutely despise them. There is no way to avoid the gangbangs on the small maps. It doesnt matter where you go, the fronts are so small that there is always a horde on the way to whatever base you want to fly from. At least on the bigger maps, you can head out to a base along the perimeter of the front and rustle up some action that is usually even for both sides but doesnt turn into a huge gangbang. Maybe 5 on 5 or so.
I'm very much inclined to agree with you. Looks like you're on US Central time (?) so the problem is worse for you than on Euro Prime Time. In addition to what you said, because the fields are closer together, Doofus-Dweebius is more tempted to engage in steamroller-horde, pork-n-auger, suicide-and-reuppage tactics.
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"Rude, see the above. I'm indifferent to field spacing. But I don't think you've read all I had to say, in particular what happened after terrain rollover yesterday. Things had been good on Trinity, but as soon as Mindano came up, the Bish began their TYPH missuns. Suiciding and reuppage become so much more feasible when the fields are closer together, as on the children's maps. That's the problem I have with fields being moved closer together ..."
I have always liked AKDESERT, I love Trinity and BigIsles. These small maps SUCK, especially Mindano. Beet1e, you are right when you point out that once we get one of the "childrens" maps up, the gangbang/suicide fest begins. I disagree that the closer fields are the root of this gameplay ... I believe that it is due to the lack of airfields in conjucntion with the size of the fighting fronts .. the fronts are too small for the amount of player that are on during primetime and weekends.
"As for having an early war area within an arena, with an independent reset, and moving fields around as if they were furniture, I don't think some of the guys suggesting these changes have ever done any programming. I have never done any game programming, but I do know that what might seem like a minor change to some could involve a major system rewrite. Map development is a huge enterprise, and as HTC has already told us, the game is not set up to allow for subarena reset. To implement that change could be hugely costly in terms of coding effort and testing... and at the end of the day, people will still be whining about the outcome. So I predict that HTC will do the most sensible thing of all: Nothing."
I do agree that if the foundation for this logic is not already in place, then a significant effort might be needed to pull this off.
I hope that HT DOES SOMETHING however ... maybe after the dust has settled in AHII: TOD.
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bbg... like I said... bout four guys worth a damn... you will probly lose em.
lazs..first we have many more then "4" who are worth a dam..
and worth what???....people who can furbal??
2nd..now i really think u are a moron...care to name who you think will leave..cause i would love to laff some more at you..
again...lmfao...moron
3rd..ya these small maps arent working very well any more...
again.....u dont know watermelon about MAW...so "finger":p
name the four if you arent a bieacah....but can you or do you just spout off and run?? sissy
Love
BiGB
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That's easy BGB-
The 4 best Furballers in the MAW:
MuckMAW
Go4MAW
ForkMAW
TgoosMAW
I had Dlamb on the list but I remembered he was drummed out.:D
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bbg well... we got that all straight now... we both think the other is a moron.
oh, your spelling is fine it's the content that is moronic. Not sure how typing with the wrong hand has anything to do with the ability to spell or content tho.
As for maw.. the more I know of em the less I like em... talk about sissies... you guys ever go on a "missun" where you don't have at least 5/2 odds in your favor?
well... enough about that... drink up and take care of that hand.
lazs
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Let me translate BGB's post for you Lazs, as he is currently operating with one paw, and drugged out of his mind.
*reading over BGB's post...again.*
Hmmmm,
Oh, here...
He asked you to name the 4 people who you are sure we'll lose, and he called you a moron and a sissy.
I hope this clarifies the post for you so that you'll have no trouble answering the question and provinding the 4 names, and you'll see no need to simply side-step that question with glib remarks.
Looking forward to your list.
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where did I say I was "sure" you would lose anyone? I said you only had about 4 guys worth a damn and that you would probly lose em...
You allready lost ouch... great guy. What makes you think you won't lose more?
truth is... when I do talk to maw on local vox they are all pretty good guys. course... I talk to em cause I am giving em a 6 call or vice versa because we are in the thick of it together. The thought of those guys "auger and join the missun" is laughable.
as for your drunken squaddie... If I even half believed he would say his crap to my face instead of on a BB I might take him serious.. I don't think so tho. He lacks the wit to talk like that to peoples faces... he would simply get knocked on his butt.
so... I will leave you to your roleplaying commander. If you want to be a BB tough guy then that's ok too but it sounds a little silly coming from guys who give themselves rank eh luke?
lazs
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I give up....I'll defer to my original premise....HT's game, he'll do whatever HE feels will increase his bottom line. That's what it's all about and rightly so.
I'll continue to play and continue to have fun...when that is no longer possible, I'll leave and go find something else to do...this silly talkin to brick walls is a waste of time.
Give it up Lazs....it is what it is. It has nothing to do with what works overall, but rather what works for the masses.
Beetle....it's clear to me that you hold no unbiased objective opinion of your own, your gaming needs are being met and that's what matters....have fun.
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Originally posted by lazs2
where did I say I was "sure" you would lose anyone? I said you only had about 4 guys worth a damn and that you would probly lose em...
You allready lost ouch... great guy. What makes you think you won't lose more?
truth is... when I do talk to maw on local vox they are all pretty good guys. course... I talk to em cause I am giving em a 6 call or vice versa because we are in the thick of it together. The thought of those guys "auger and join the missun" is laughable.
as for your drunken squaddie... If I even half believed he would say his crap to my face instead of on a BB I might take him serious.. I don't think so tho. He lacks the wit to talk like that to peoples faces... he would simply get knocked on his butt.
so... I will leave you to your roleplaying commander. If you want to be a BB tough guy then that's ok too but it sounds a little silly coming from guys who give themselves rank eh luke?
lazs
I've known BGB for a while. Trust me, he would say it to your face, gramps.
Oh, and we're still waiting for those names "Tough Guy".
Or are we doing the now famous, "Lassie Shuffle"?
Better send out the E-mails and get the TAS and BK BBS backup before your get ganged.
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Ok guys, don't drag me into the middle of this.
I left the MAW because I didn't care for their "thing", which is base capture.
The basic response I got at the time was "well there are 5 other nights that you can do something else". Honestly, on those 5 nights, almost everyone from the MAW that was on was doing base capture.
I figured, "Hell, I don't like what they like, and they don't really care about what I like, so I need to go look for people who do care about what I care about. Furballs!"
(There were other reasons as well, like my refusal to auger planes because someone decides to change the mission mid flight. Ruins the 'immersion' factor.)
Ouch out
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Originally posted by muckmaw
The 4 best Furballers in the MAW:
MuckMAW
Go4MAW
ForkMAW
TgoosMAW
Where's icemaw? :)
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Originally posted by Ouch
Ok guys, don't drag me into the middle of this.
I left the MAW because I didn't care for their "thing", which is base capture.
The basic response I got at the time was "well there are 5 other nights that you can do something else". Honestly, on those 5 nights, almost everyone from the MAW that was on was doing base capture.
I figured, "Hell, I don't like what they like, and they don't really care about what I like, so I need to go look for people who do care about what I care about. Furballs!"
(There were other reasons as well, like my refusal to auger planes because someone decides to change the mission mid flight. Ruins the 'immersion' factor.)
Ouch out
Ouch-
You were a good man to fly with while we had you. I'll never forget the story you told us about how you got your callsign. Man, that was some funny stuff.
I understand the squad was not a fit for you, and am happy you have found a home with a premier furball squad.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the auger thing, and try to avoid it as much as possible. Frankly, it's not that bad anymore. The CO's are pretty understanding when it comes to holding back mission times.
Either way, this is nothing personal about you Ouch. It's simply Lazs' way of trying rub our noses your moving to BKs.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
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Originally posted by WldThing
Where's icemaw? :)
Ice sucks. He lets his little sister log on for 2 hours a day to pad his score for him.;)
Those 4 guys are the most dedicated furballers the MAW has, no matter what Slapshot says.;)
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Originally posted by WldThing
Where's icemaw? :)
Working on his needlepoint ... getting ready for the fall fair season. Never to eary to start.
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"Those 4 guys are the most dedicated furballers the MAW has, no matter what Slapshot says."
Yup ... thems is da ones.
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Originally posted by lazs2
curly... you are NOT payintg attention... the early war area that I am talking about would not be accessable to late war planes... you couldn't get there and pork anything in a late war plane. Get it? both it and the regular area would have caturable fields and both would have seperate resets... when you captured one countries 7 or so early war fields then you would (lol) "win the early war".
so what is the potential problem again?
lazs
Lazs, there's a lot of things I don't do. Paying attention isn't one of them. I have tried 3 times to make you understand the following issue (and I'm giving up after this one!): Having separate resets requires a change in the game engine. Now, that may not be a big deal to you because the phrase rolls off your tongue so easily, but it is a big deal. It's not just a setup issue.
Changing the game engine is a gigantic social issue if you have a working product. Let's say it takes 2 weeks to bring out a "Lazs special game engine." What if it has unforseen consequences that make the game a total dog?
I guess the largest problem I have with two separate areas within one arena (and one of them a furball area) would be the obvious: The furball side would consume the lion's share of the bandwidth allocated to the arena. In a furball, bandwidth consumption is approximately related to the square of the number of participants. That's not good, Lazs. :)
curly
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"I guess the largest problem I have with two separate areas within one arena (and one of them a furball area) would be the obvious: The furball side would consume the lion's share of the bandwidth allocated to the arena. In a furball, bandwidth consumption is approximately related to the square of the number of participants. That's not good, Lazs."
Curly ... basically, wouldn't we be trading where I would be on a map to where I would be in the furball area ... wouldn't it basically remain equal ?
If 50 pilots are fighting in the furball area, wouldn't those 50 be fighting somewhere else on the map if the furball area were not available ?
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lmfao..muck..i love your "best furballers":D
But come on luz..dont be a sissy....
lets here the "only good MAW"..
only reason i want u to posts its...is cuase you are so wrong....but run and hide....
Come on..try it....
And Ice and needlepoint...god..thats funny too..
Luz u son of a bich..i almost have u on my anti-chek6 list....
for ur spewing crap like this..
bbg... like I said... bout four guys worth a damn... you will probly lose em.
what u need to look up stats before u posts??
you can do it..what the hell else can u do in dixon...lololol
funny you cant do it...!!!!!!:p
anyways off to furball and pork and bom and GV....weeeeeeeee
Love
BiGB
xoxo
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Curly ... basically, wouldn't we be trading where I would be on a map to where I would be in the furball area ... wouldn't it basically remain equal ?
Not really.
Lets take an extremely simple example.
Say you have 3 guys in an arena. Say they are all in completely different sectors. They might not need to send any updates at all to each other or very low bandwidth information. Maybe they only need to report their dar position and maybe only every minute or so.
Now, take those same 3 players and put them in close,visual proximity to each other. Now the frequency and bandwidth of the updates are much greater. X,Y,Z position. Roll,yaw,pitch velocity. Roll,yaw,pitch acceleration. Smoke, gun firing, ordinence data. etc etc. Not only is the amout of data much larger but its needs to be updated with much greater frequency. (once every ~0.25 sec).
If I remember correctly, one of the intended purposes of the larger terrains was to spread out the density abit to avoid localized saturation. That way a given server hardware can support a larger number of simultaneous players. By distributing the load.
9 guys spread out in 3 separate fights of 3 each is much less stress (and less warpage) than 9 guys in one cluster fudge.
Wab
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Thanks Wab !!!
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Thx Wab, learned something today. I see now how large census small map scenario could cause problems.
..but I still see Creamo hunched in that room sitting on his heals sticking hunting knives into the dusky carpeted floor..
Gazing out a dirty paned window his eyes all of glass..
Mumbling at someone who isn't there..
Dangerous..
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And like 38Maw? ;)
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Originally posted by lazs2
ANY change that gives the early war planes a chance is a plus for the game
- including an RPS? Well, you did say ANY change... :cool:
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Originally posted by SlapShot
"I guess the largest problem I have with two separate areas within one arena (and one of them a furball area) would be the obvious: The furball side would consume the lion's share of the bandwidth allocated to the arena. In a furball, bandwidth consumption is approximately related to the square of the number of participants. That's not good, Lazs."
Curly ... basically, wouldn't we be trading where I would be on a map to where I would be in the furball area ... wouldn't it basically remain equal ?
If 50 pilots are fighting in the furball area, wouldn't those 50 be fighting somewhere else on the map if the furball area were not available ?
What wabbit said. But to emphasize the impact of numbers, think about this:
Scenario 1. 5 planes in a rolling fight, all remaining in visual contact. Each plane's FE must maintain exact position and velocity information on the other planes. So, for 5 planes, that's 5*4 or 20 position/velocity updates each clock tick.
Scenario 2. Up the number of planes to 20. Same deal, except this time, there 20*19 or 380 position updates for each clock tick.
Scenario 3. Up the number to 50. 50*49 or 2450 position updates each clock tick.
It's an N^2 problem.
Now, the beauty of the late war planes is that 50 planes probably can't stay in visual range of each other --- but, I'll bet ya 50 early war planes can. :)
curly
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I dunno what's sadder....
You guys writing all this....
...or me reading it.
Nothing ever does really change, does it?
At least I learned a few new names, and familiarized myself with a number of old ones.
BB <-- you'll probably see me here when WBIII finally kicks the bucket.
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BB Gun! Nice to see you! What a surprise! How's Laurie?
Hehe, the community is very different here. I'll tell you in private. ;) One thing that's changed - I can finally fly 109s - and get more than one kill per week. You helped me on that in WB, and others have helped me over here. I'm still no expert, but glad to have made some progress. If you've got the film viewer installed, you could view one of my sorties. But sssshhhhh.... some folks in here don't like it when people talk about their films. ;)
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wavbit and curly... I didn't ask for a furball arena... I asked for an early war area within the arena. HT told me it was possible to have the seperate resets (said, "that would work"). Are you saying that there is no place for early war planes in a sim because they would tend to fight each other?
What you guys seem to be saying is that we can't have large furballs in an online sim because the servers can't handle it and that large maps with no action is the only option. You map makers aren't just porking the game and making it unfun.... you are actually our friends and saving us from ourselves?
curly claims that if we had the early war area and it wasn't popular that it would be a waste of time and totally destroy gameplay.. That is not true.. If no one went there it would be a non issue. There would be seperate resets so it wouldn't matter if either area were reset.. ever. I think that there would probly be less guys in the early area but we will never know unless we try.
And.... If is impossible to have real furballs in an online sim them what is all this bull about a seperate arena for furballers? if they can't build an arena that can handle em then why bother?
No.. the real issue is that the stamp collectors are afraid that no one will play with them if they are not forced to. If we have any options we will avoid them just like back when we were all in school.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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BB how ya doin? Man, I can't believe you are still over there..
lazs
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Originally posted by AKcurly
What wabbit said. But to emphasize the impact of numbers, think about this:
Scenario 1. 5 planes in a rolling fight, all remaining in visual contact. Each plane's FE must maintain exact position and velocity information on the other planes. So, for 5 planes, that's 5*4 or 20 position/velocity updates each clock tick.
Scenario 2. Up the number of planes to 20. Same deal, except this time, there 20*19 or 380 position updates for each clock tick.
Scenario 3. Up the number to 50. 50*49 or 2450 position updates each clock tick.
It's an N^2 problem.
Now, the beauty of the late war planes is that 50 planes probably can't stay in visual range of each other --- but, I'll bet ya 50 early war planes can. :)
curly
You mean like the furball we had going last night ... there were at least 50 planes within a very short distance of each other. I didn't notice any server burps nor warps during the fight. Also, I would think that 50 planes would probably be the max at any one time within the furball area ... more than likely and at most times, the numbers would be lower.
I understand what you are trying to portray, but between last night's furball and others that I have been in (CV furballs), I don't really see this as a problem. I could be (AK)wrong ... :D
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exactly slap.. There would never be more than 50 planes all in the same area in the early war area of the arena... The late war area would also have even less action than it does now... Late war planes would dominate and they never fight.
the early war area would not be fields that were end to end... there would be 3/4 of a sector seperation and say... 5-10 fields to choose from/spread the load.
I think it is smoke and mirrors and... an excuse.
lazs
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Lazs,
If you are unable or willing to use the DA which, by the way, offeres everything you need, and given that there are problems with resets if we were to have subarenas/areas within an arena, then the only other alternative I can think of is for the TAS and BK to sit down together and design their own map - just as the AKs designed the pizza - and to submit it to HTC to be included in the weekly map rotation. Of course, the design would have to be approved by HTC.
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The DA does not have everything that I need. Seperate arenas don't work. RPS doesn't work.. all these things have been tried to death and proven to not work.
I would settle for more CV's and changing most/all of the V fields to A fields... This is allready gbeing done on the infinity map for instance and working much better.
My "area arena" is simply an ultimate solution as oppossed to all these band aid solutions tho.
If I had copies of the large maps I could carve one up to reflect the area concept. It would take about 15 minutes... not a difficult thing to do. getting the seperate reset thing would probly take a lot more time... I don't know... not a puter guy.
lazs
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You mean like the furball we had going last night ...
Slap, I think you misunderstood our point.
We weren’t saying that there is a hard limit of 50 planes before the server crashes. We're trying to talk about the rates at which the server load increases.
I think Curly and I are essentially trying to make the same points:
1. For a given server hardware and server network connection, there is less stress and warpage when things are spread out to more smaller fights rather than fewer larger fights. By spreading the load more evenly, HTC can support a larger total number of simultaneous players (therefore more profit), while still maintaining the same quality of experience.
2. The rate at which the server load increases is (roughly) proportional to the square of the number of players in close visual proximity to each other. Lets say we have a generic scalar load factor: L. Lets say N is the number players in close visual proximity. L ~= N^2. Now lets take an example of 9 players in an arena. If they are spread out into 3 fights of 3 separated by a sector each and each fight has a load of N^2 then the total arena load factor is L = (3^2) + (3^2) + (3^2) = 27. If however all 9 are in close visual proximity then L = 9^2 = 81. For the same number of players you can have a load of 27 vs 81. That’s a 200% increase. Therefore, in this example, you can support 200% more players (i.e. 200% more profit) on the same infrastructure without increasing warpage just by controlling the density distribution.
3. Slow moving, early war planes will only exacerbate the problem. They clump together and turn and burn rather than extend and climb. A furball of early war planes will always tend to clump together in a smaller area than the same number of faster, late war planes.
I like a furballs too. I might even like flying early war planes against other early war planes every once in a while.
But there is no way around it mathematically. A large furball of early war planes all clumped up in a small area of the map would rob a disproportionate amount of the bandwidth from the rest of the arena.
Is the trade off worth it? I dunno. HT will have to decide.
Regards,
Wab
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wab... you seem to be saying that we cant have early war planes in the arena because too many people would enjoy em.
How do you take resources away from late war planes that don't even fight anyway?
lazs
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It's not just increased load on the server that congestion causes. Remember, all the planes in your vicinity cause network traffic to be sent to your PC through your Internet pipe. If you have a fat pipe like DSL or Cable then it'll likely be no problem, but if you have an analog dialup it will reach saturation and packets will be lost. I'm a visual kind of guy, I've posted pics to help illustrate this before, where'd I put 'em??
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Made a new one. Disregard dyslexic fingers.
(http://www.inettek.com/stuff/ahnet.jpg)
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Originally posted by beet1e
Lazs,
If you are unable or willing to use the DA which, by the way, offeres everything you need, and given that there are problems with resets if we were to have subarenas/areas within an arena, then the only other alternative I can think of is for the TAS and BK to sit down together and design their own map - just as the AKs designed the pizza -
Come on beetle .. That would actually take WORK! Its easier to whine about the situation then actually do something about it.. :rolleyes:
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Wab and Iron,
Thanks for your patience and detailed explanations. I'm a visual guy also Iron ... :D ... I do understand the concept.
I wasn't implying that you guys made a hard limit of 50 planes that would/could crash the server. One of you guys had made mention of 50 planes in a furball would be pumping out some serious data, which I agree (50^2 = 2500).
My pointing out last nights furball was to compare that 50 plane scenario to what we had going last night.
I'm not sure if we had 50 or more at peak times during that furball because it did ebb and flow as planes were knocked down and then had to fly back to the area, but there sure were, what I would consider, near max of what I would anticipate in the furball area.
With that in mind, I did not see any anomolies (warpage) that was out of the ordinary. If the server could handle last nights furball, I would think that the server could possibly handle the traffic that would be produced in a furball area without detrement to the rest of the areana.
I am not trying to dismiss your point, its very valid to HTC I am sure, I am just pointing out that some of the furballs that I have been in, especially the CV vs CV furballs, would have already shown what the high water mark would be for object position transmissions and the code would have already failed.
As for those who don't/can't have DSL/Cable, they deal with this currently (like when bomber formations dump). Until/Unless they upgrade, and this area was provided, then they would just have to deal with it some more or don't fly there.
Like Wab said ... its up to HT and HTC to decide .. we can only hope.
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WildThing
;)
Lazs How do you take resources away from late war planes that don't even fight anyway?
I know this is an emotive issue for you, but try to understand the networking implications as put forward by Wabbit and Iron. It's no BS.
Try this test - take off in an FM2 from an isolated field - no friends or cons around. Climb to 3K and level off. Press Ctrl+I to display video card details and note the frame rate. I don't know what vid. card you have, but if I did this, the rate would be around 60fps, or as much as 80 if over water with no terrain to render. Now try upping in a GV in an area like Trinity Tank town where there might be 10 other vehicles within visual range appearing on your screen. If I did this, my frame rate would drop to about 25fps. Even on another map, the "clutter" (other vehicles/planes, fires, smoke) at a bombed out V-base will cause extra video rendering, and a sharp drop in frame rate.
An early war area would cause clumps of aircraft (or vehicles) which might degrade the entire server. Then again, we already have TTT doing that...
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Since I have never seen the netcode my observations are of course based on assumption. I'd be very curious to know how hitech transfers data between planes. Maybe he does some sort of time division multiplexing with say a 100 milisecond frame. That frame could allocate a fixed or variable slot for each plane in range and contain xyz and pitch/yaw/roll for each. This info could then be passed on to a higher level in the front end which might do the smoothing. Just speculating here, I'd appreciate anyone sharing their insight as to how it may work.
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
But there is no way around it mathematically. A large furball of early war planes all clumped up in a small area of the map would rob a disproportionate amount of the bandwidth from the rest of the arena.
I think most everybody understands the efficiency aspect to lengthening field distances and purposefully spreading out the action. It's the same logic that guided removing individual kill declarations and only announcing landed kills of two or more.
However, problems arise from unforeseen consequences that result from spreading out fields. These consequences, in part, contribute to the feeling among some that Aces High has somehow changed for the worse. These consequences include:
(1) Generally longer transit times to fights.
(2) Generally higher altitude fights due to the increased field distances allowing for greater climb times.
(3) An increased emphasis on late war, fast planes to decrease transit time to and from these far bases.
(4) Destroying base fuel affects fights relatively more than before due to longer flight distances.
(a) Reduced fuel availability disproportionately affects early war planes over late war planes.
(b) The increased value of fuel as a tactical target increases the likelihood that teams attack fuel depots by any means necessary, including suicide divebombing.
To name a few. Others could identify more. Some may see these consequences as positive things and others as negative. Surely, however, they have changed the flavor of the game somewhat -- for better or for worse depending on personal tastes.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by lazs2
wavbit and curly... I didn't ask for a furball arena... I asked for an early war area within the arena. HT told me it was possible to have the seperate resets (said, "that would work"). Are you saying that there is no place for early war planes in a sim because they would tend to fight each other?
What you guys seem to be saying is that we can't have large furballs in an online sim because the servers can't handle it and that large maps with no action is the only option. You map makers aren't just porking the game and making it unfun.... you are actually our friends and saving us from ourselves?
curly claims that if we had the early war area and it wasn't popular that it would be a waste of time and totally destroy gameplay.. That is not true.. If no one went there it would be a non issue. There would be seperate resets so it wouldn't matter if either area were reset.. ever. I think that there would probly be less guys in the early area but we will never know unless we try.
And.... If is impossible to have real furballs in an online sim them what is all this bull about a seperate arena for furballers? if they can't build an arena that can handle em then why bother?
Lazs, all I claim is that furballs generate more bandwidth consumption. The problem should be made worse by the presence of early war planes.
You know those days in the MA when the server is struggling to push position updates to us? You see planes all over the place? Those days aren't always the fault of HTC or even necessarily the fault of HTC's ISP. Maybe a switch in Kansas City is oversold; maybe a new Outlook Express virus just hit the network. Some days, the network just feels porked. :)
Let's face it, the internet wasn't designed to facilitate online gaming. Hitech and crew have already pushed the envelope in facilitating massively multiplayer online gaming. Let's hope they find a way to satisfy the guys who want to exclusively furball.
curly
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Originally posted by AKcurly
Hitech and crew have already pushed the envelope in facilitating massively multiplayer online gaming. Let's hope they find a way to satisfy the guys who want to exclusively furball.
LOL
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However, problems arise from unforeseen consequences that result from
spreading out fields.
If by "spreading out" you mean increasing the distance between fields I
agree with you. I don't think you necessarily need to increase field
separation to distribute the fights. The two newer maps might space the fields a tad farther than I prefer. While there is no need to spread them out further, you don’t want to cram them too close together either. In general, I think 0.75 sectors work best. But I think 0.5 sectors would be too close.
There are other ways you can distribute thing evenly without moving the fields too far apart. Avoid choke points, intersperse airfields with GV fields, etc.
One of the most import means of regulating furballs is the role of the strat player. As others have stated, eventually a furball gets to big or lasts too long, the strat can no longer resist and one of the fields gets closed or captured. The furballers scatter and look for another place to begin to bunch up. Wash, rinse, repeat. Laz sees this as a problem, I see it as the natural life cycle of a furball. Allowing furballs to develop is no more or less important than allowing strats to eventually disperse them. Its part of the balance. It is the way it should be. It is the natural order of things.
What you don’t want to probably do is create an arena within an arena with fields too close together with invulnerable ack and uncapturable fields. It would tend to promote on giant, bandwidth sapping furball rather than allowing the fights to be naturally distributed evenly across the arena.
Regards,
Wab
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so what I am getting here is that none of you really know what effects furballs have on the current arena or if they are even a problem or not but that you know that they have the potential to be?
As slap pointed out... we have large furballs now in some portions of the map... sometimes two or three at the same time. If this is causing problems then that hasn't been stated by anyone at HTC.
Nobady changed some of the fields and CV issues to make the infinity map more furball friendly.. I have not heard that this caused any problems with the server or playerbase yet.
Fixing pizza the same way that infinity was fixed would be a good step towards making the arena more friendly for more players.
I am sorry tho but I don't buy the assumption that the server can't handle a few early war furballs especially when it would mean that those early war planes would no longer be in the late war area. If it were a problem that was a local area update problem then all that would need to happen were that the people with outmoded equipment would avoid the furballs much as they do now.
lazs
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wildthing and beetle... we are just discussing options at this point. I will guarentee you this tho...
if HTC said that they would like to see an "area arena" map... the BK's or TAS would not have to "get together and design" one... there would be 10 guys looking to make one.
lazs
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if HTC said that they would like to see an "area arena" map... the BK's or TAS would not have to "get together and design" one... there would be 10 guys looking to make one.
Has HTC said that?
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I think most everybody understands the efficiency aspect to lengthening field distances and purposefully spreading out the action. It's the same logic that guided removing individual kill declarations and only announcing landed kills of two or more.
However, problems arise from unforeseen consequences that result from spreading out fields. These consequences, in part, contribute to the feeling among some that Aces High has somehow changed for the worse. These consequences include:
(1) Generally longer transit times to fights.
(2) Generally higher altitude fights due to the increased field distances allowing for greater climb times.
(3) An increased emphasis on late war, fast planes to decrease transit time to and from these far bases.
(4) Destroying base fuel affects fights relatively more than before due to longer flight distances.
(a) Reduced fuel availability disproportionately affects early war planes over late war planes.
(b) The increased value of fuel as a tactical target increases the likelihood that teams attack fuel depots by any means necessary, including suicide divebombing.
To name a few. Others could identify more. Some may see these consequences as positive things and others as negative. Surely, however, they have changed the flavor of the game somewhat -- for better or for worse depending on personal tastes.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Bingo!
As to me making a map? It works this way....I pay HTC to PLAY....not to work. Personally I have too much on my plate as it is.
Like I said above....if it begins to suck really bad, I'll find something else to do. I know all too well that the designers focus is not on pleasing old farts like myself....we do not populate the MA.
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yep.. like rude says.. I pay to play. Who knows how it will all turn out? right now it is the best sim going.
WB was the best sim going at one time. They told me in WB that there was nothing wrong with not having a six view and that Corsairs really did only climb 2800 feet per minute. They also told me that it was only me an a couple of other guys who didn't like an RPS with axis vs allied and that I was crazy if I thought that people would get bored with that.... That action and parity weren't realistic.
wab... I said that if HTC said they wanted to do an area arena.... they would have 10 guys or more jumping in and working on one for free... I stand by that...wouldn't be me or rude tho no matter what.. we are old, slow and lazy.
I think the real truth is that the defenders of the status quo don't want any choice for other players. I don't think that there would be any real problem with an area arena... There wouldn't be any more furballs in the arena than there are on a good night in the current arenas... difference is.. you would be able to count on em because they would be happening allmost any time you logged on. Of course.... you wouldn't have to participate.
The only downside is that the B&Z sky accountants wouldn't have as many easy targets to choose from... I believe they fear having to fight planes on a more or less equal footing.
lazs
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Originally posted by Rude
I know all too well that the designers focus is not on pleasing old farts like myself....we do not populate the MA.
Ain't it the truth , I'm only a few years away from digging out the "Happy Gardeners Planner" disc my wife bought me a few years ago.
Who knows maybe I can learn to reverse bees and kill beetles.
At least I'll still be in the weeds.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I think the real truth is that the defenders of the status quo don't want any choice for other players. I don't think that there would be any real problem with an area arena... There wouldn't be any more furballs in the arena than there are on a good night in the current arenas... difference is.. you would be able to count on em because they would be happening allmost any time you logged on. Of course.... you wouldn't have to participate.
The only downside is that the B&Z sky accountants wouldn't have as many easy targets to choose from... I believe they fear having to fight planes on a more or less equal footing.
lazs
Lazs, you are so full of it that when you die, your descendants will be able to fertilize a couple of sections and still have 50 pounds left over. ;)
I think most of us look forward to any changes made by HTC. Most of us aren't one-dimensional (like some I could mention) in our fun seeking. I think most of us think change is good.
HTC's connection can be anywhere from unused to saturated. None of us know where HTC is on that scale -- I don't know if they're averaging 80% (or whatever.) I just know that early war furballs push us closer to the saturation point.
There is one thing I'm confident about -- Hitech won't make changes (no matter how much you whine) that saturate his connection.
Let's just hope they find a solution that pleases most of us.
curly
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Strategy here is #######################################################################################################################################################################################################'s.
PERIOD
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bfreek is actually right on this one.... All the vaunted "strategy" all the silly "missuns" all the hopes and dreams and nail biting worry over the capture of this or that "resource"...
It all boils down to.... the country with the most numbers is the steamroller and the country with the least is the roadbed... nothing changes that... if the country is full of maw or well adjusted players... it comes out the same...
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
bfreek is actually right on this one.... All the vaunted "strategy" all the silly "missuns" all the hopes and dreams and nail biting worry over the capture of this or that "resource"...
It all boils down to.... the country with the most numbers is the steamroller and the country with the least is the roadbed... nothing changes that... if the country is full of maw or well adjusted players... it comes out the same...
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Lazs, I agree in that I don't like the missuns created by the missun editor, but I do like the combat to have a purpose. But because of too many warnings - Base under attack, flashing map, bardar etc., stealth tactics are compromised. Throw the missun editor into the cauldron and we have the numerical supremacy uberity/gangbangery that we're all so fed up with right now.
But if all fields were made uncapturable, all targets indestructible, well - that's one way you could get rid of me. ;)
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so beetle... if the "missuns" went unoppossed because no one knew they were happening then... Gameplay would be better? If the steamroller went unapossed it would.... what? Seems lack of warning promotes even less action (killing toolsheds is not "action").
lazs
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Originally posted by beet1e
Lazs, I agree in that I don't like the missuns created by the missun editor, but I do like the combat to have a purpose. But because of too many warnings - Base under attack, flashing map, bardar etc., stealth tactics are compromised. Throw the missun editor into the cauldron and we have the numerical supremacy uberity/gangbangery that we're all so fed up with right now.
But if all fields were made uncapturable, all targets indestructible, well - that's one way you could get rid of me. ;)
Now this is funny.
Last night the Bishops hit A5 in force....fights were hard to find last night, so I flew over to where everyone was at. I got there and we were hittin it hard...bombers, jabo...standard shock and awe stuff....I was lite so myself and others were vulchin the remaining morsels and established a cap...the entire field was destroyed....nothing left....scorched earth.
Well, now I'm bored so I thought these guys will capture this and I can just land here. I waited and waited, then asked the 64 million dollar question....anyone bring the drunks? No reply....again, asked the same and was told nope.
I thought to myself, why in the world would we kill the fight only to sit around and stare at each other....it just didn't make any sense.
Then the most intense light shown from above...I was temporarily blinded by it's brilliance....as my eyes slowly adjusted, it suddenly became clear....there above us all by some 5k was the life blood of this inept exercise....yes folks....the BEETLE himself!
I called to him on range channel to ask, why...why....what is our purpose????
He wouldn't even give me the time of day.
If that's your idea of fun Beetle, then you can have it....no wonder you won't fight...you still have work to do on the base capture thingie.
Remember my orthodontically challenged friend....bring the DRUNKS!!!
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Remember my orthodontically challenged friend....bring the DRUNKS!!!
Its humorous how everyone always expects someone else to bring the drunks.
Wab
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
Its humorous how everyone always expects someone else to bring the drunks.
Wab
Well Wab....if that much effort was put forth to scorch this field and strat enthusiasts like Beetle were involved, I thought it strange that no one seemed to think of it.
Now the 13th has been said to lack leadership and the skills to acccomplish field capture since we're just a furball squad...still, I guarantee you we would think of bringin some drunks even if we failed to sterilize the base.
I just found it to be amusing.
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It's all part of "combat having a purpose".
The purpose is to fill Ch 1 with cries of "who brought the goon?", apparently.
;)
"Round and round went that big hamster wheel
in and out went the big strat of steel
in and out and in out until they cried
"it resets to the same map, I'm so-oh-oh suprised!"
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Just up and fly. It's really as fun as hovering over the bbs.
Does Skuzzy moderate the boards? Yup.
And ignore these constant Gameplay ideas that punt on the hour in the General Forum?
Yes.
If it was my job, I would remove the stage these guys obviously need to promote themselves, and move it to the Gameplay forum.
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I'm involved in self-promotion?
Forgive me.
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Of course. You made your self all important with the rest of the "I pay" tards.
I pay HTC to PLAY....not to work. Personally I have too much on my plate as it is.
Like I said above....if it begins to suck really bad, I'll find something else to do.
Just say when the rest of the MA players should grieve for you , RAM.
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Just up and fly. It's really as fun as hovering over the bbs.
This is good....from a guy with 10 sorties this tour I get lectured.
Tell me how you really feel Creamo....try being direct...it saves time.
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Skuzzy, can you distinguish "Gameplay/Feedback Issues" from the "AH General Discussion" or what?
Take away the soap box already, they are checking MY stats even. Good grief.
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Skuzzy, can you distinguish "Gameplay/Feedback Issues" from the "AH General Discussion" or what?
I'm sorry Creamo, but this post doesn't really belong in "Aces High General Discussion".
Specific requests to the web admin should be directed via private mail to support@hitechcreations.com.
Thank you.
Wab:cool:
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Originally posted by Creamo
Just up and fly. It's really as fun as hovering over the bbs.
Does Skuzzy moderate the boards? Yup.
And ignore these constant Gameplay ideas that punt on the hour in the General Forum?
Yes.
If it was my job, I would remove the stage these guys obviously need to promote themselves, and move it to the Gameplay forum.
Well put..
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Has any thread ever broken 400 before?
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The all time record is some thread called "Who are you" which topped out at 687.
No substance. No Flaming. Just huggy kissy type stuff.
This little war is #2 in replies of all time.
Do I get some sort of Troll award for this?
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After flying last night I couldn't sleep so I started catching up on this post and fell right asleep.
The bottom line is undisputable - The country with the numbers is going to roll.
The country that is getting double teamed, usually the knights, has no chance in hell to do anything, much less defend. This means taking up the best fighter for a 3 on 1 or greater engagement.
I would love to see a furball area like Tank town. It would be nice to be able to go furball when numerically challenged. The DA is just that, for Dueling - it is not furball conducive. The CT just plain sucks because of the lack of people to shoot down. A furball arena, at least that would be a start. Yes it would be better in the MA but it's a start.
This game does get extremely boring, waiting for high alt JABOs to dive on field, hopefully survive their first drop, then wait for them to burn enough E so that you can catch them only to have to fight for the kill with the other salivating countrymen. Then do this all over again. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Then there is the other side - Find a base close enough to climb ten minutes to intercept the high alt raid and maybe get a little dog fight while you chase the JABO guy to the deck he drops his ord you kill him and have to climb another 10 mins for the next one. Wake me when I get there.
The hardest part of this game is the patience. It really is like real life in that regard - Hours of boredom broken up by minutes or seconds of heart racing action. That is fine when you have a lot of time to kill.
JABO is fun and you can always find some strat to kill no matter what any time anywhere. For the Fighter Joc, as you get better and better this game gets more boring and boring, since there is no where to furball, unless you get lucky and one appears. But they are so fleeting, because as one country gets the advantage they almost always start vulching and good bye furball.
All in all, with a game this good they are missing a big piece of game play and it is too bad. I dont have much hope for AH2 to fill the void either.
mars01 [M.A.W.] Blacksheep - XO
crap I just put myself to sleep again, proofing my post.
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It would be nice to be able to go furball when numerically challenged.
I'm curious as to why, if the numbers are skewed and your team is getting gang banged, why you would think it would be different at the fighter town? Why wouldn't the numerical imbalence just carry over?
My guess is that you'd still be getting gang banged just as much. Just by slower planes.
Wab
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Originally posted by muckmaw
The all time record is some thread called "Who are you" which topped out at 687.
No substance. No Flaming. Just huggy kissy type stuff.
This little war is #2 in replies of all time.
Do I get some sort of Troll award for this?
Call Creamo or WT...they might pay ya to end it somehow:)
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imyself can stop any country from steamrolling...KILL the ****ng Barraks...how easy is that??? 1 man can stop it...easliy...we just have alot of...monkys flying
any ways..Luzs..u hunk o crap..where is your ..4 MAWs only worth a dam??...You punk hick in Dixon.....lolol run and hide when you spew ur diahrea
List it or Apologize..eitherr way you are going to be wrong..
So i hope everybase u lift from is porked....:p
If anyone wants to hunt Luz and pork his base feel free to ask me over Chnl1...
Love
BiGB
xoxo
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
I'm curious as to why, if the numbers are skewed and your team is getting gang banged, why you would think it would be different at the fighter town? Why wouldn't the numerical imbalence just carry over?
In MA, when numerically challenged it is predominantly high alt cherry pickers and jabos attacking.
Never a low alt knife fight. I guess I would be hoping that furball alley would be more people inclined to knife fight rather than cherry pick.
mars
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I guess I would be hoping that furball alley would be more people inclined to knife fight rather than cherry pick.
I'm not sure about what logic you're basing that on.
I don't see any mechanism by which unbalenced numbers in the MA would magically balence themselves in the furball area unless its forced somehow by code.
If you're out numbered 3 vs 1 in the arena in general I can almost guaruntee you it will be the same in the fighter area.
Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Wab
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your not getting it Wabbit,
Dude, are you just looking for some one to argue with? Pick some one else.
Logic? "I'm guessing and Hoping", were the words used, what the hell does it have to do with logic.
I could care less about the numbers in a furball, its the kind of fight, I love a low alt, out numbered furball, twisting turning and shooting. I love having more to kill than to fight for kills with.
Again - That is what I'm GUESSING and HOPING it would be.
The numbers only factor into it due to the boring steam roller that exists now. High alt JABOs and Cherry Pickers. There is no where to knife fight bottom line.
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Gee Mars I guess the part that threw me was :
It would be nice to be able to go furball when numerically challenged.
But I got it straight now.
Bottom line is: logic is not something you're worried about.
Q.E.D.
Wab
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not worth it Wabbit
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not worth it Wabbit
You're right. You're not.
Wab
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Guys, let's play nice. AK have garnered alot of respect from me. Though I hate to get shot down by one of you, at least I know you've earned it.
I would tend to say the AK is the arch rival of the MAW. At least, in my eyes.
Either way, if there is a furball arena, good luck. Enjoy it.
I'll be doing my thing.
Just remember, as passionate as we get, this is only a game. If it fell off the face of the earth, life would go on.
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Originally posted by lazs2
so beetle... if the "missuns" went unoppossed because no one knew they were happening then... Gameplay would be better? If the steamroller went unapossed it would.... what? Seems lack of warning promotes even less action (killing toolsheds is not "action").
lazs
No. Not like that. Think back to WB. A bunch of guys (4-5) might fly NOE to a field. They would have to zoom up to get the right alt for bomb release - 3000' is about the minimum - whereupon they would appear on radar. That's why I always used to target the dar first. If we were seen, cons would up, and a fight would ensue. Cons would up from neighbouring fields, so we knew we had to do the job quickly. Hiding the ju52 could be a bit of a headache. We would have only 3000' max, so it wouldn't quite be the vulchfest you see in AH. In AH, the bardar gives the game away. So the only way to capture a field is to initiate a Missun, and go there mobhanded. You don't like that, and neither do I. As for killing toolsheds not being "action", neither is taking off and climbing to 5K, but that's something you have to do every flight to reach your (furball) objective. I have to do the same. After I drop bombs (if on a jabo mission) I'll then start killing all the guys who try to thwart our capture efforts. Did you ever view that 9 kill sortie of mine from last tour? All below 2K, so not an alt monkey. And no, I did not try to turnfight with LA7, or e-fite with 109s.
Rude - you must have caught me at the end of a long session. The following morning, I found an empty wine bottle... maybe I was just bored. There were none of my usual buddies around. Was it A5? Hell, I can't even remember what plane I was in.
But let's understand eachother, Rude, as it will save embarrassment in the future. [list=1]- You have never seen my teeth
- I do not care for your gratuitous remarks on the voxx channel, and the reason you got no reply from me was because I squelched you as soon as I heard your whiny timbre. This wasn't the first time, and I really don't care to hear from you again, so put a sock in it.
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bgb..leviathn named the only three maw worth a damn allready but in your stupor you must have missed it. Those guys are also the only maw with a sense of humor.
A drunken tirade against people who would offend the honor of your silly squad, complete with tough guy talk and words like "punk"? you are pathetic..
beetle... in todays MA climate with the large timid squads like the maw... you would simply get more ganbanging without radar. At least now the maw run away when they see opposition... imagine if they could "sneak up" on stuff. Too many new guys seem addicted to the "mssun"... the combo of timid "missun" stuff and no dar would be a real gamebreaker.
For a start... the fields could be a little closer... that could be as simple as changeing some of the v fields into A fields and adding some CV's... Other things could come latter.
Seems most that are opposed to more action are on their way out anyway... most of them are not even playing anymore or about to leave. Why please them?
lazs
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Originally posted by beet1e
I do not care for your gratuitous remarks on the voxx channel, and the reason you got no reply from me was because I squelched you as soon as I heard your whiny timbre. This wasn't the first time, and I really don't care to hear from you again, so put a sock in it.[/list] [/B]
Ummmmm…. Ok, so basically you’re a blowhard and when called on something you ignore it to save some face in the midst of others.
Do you get the feeling that when you close your eyes no one else can see you?
Creamo, for not giving a damn you sure have followed the whole thing haven’t you and even felt the need to post. We should feel so honored that you have graced us with your undying wit. You were “heard” the first time and I really don’t think anyone cared.
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Originally posted by lazs2
bgb..leviathn named the only three maw worth a damn allready but in your stupor you must have missed it. Those guys are also the only maw with a sense of humor.
lazs
Lazs-
I would retract that "Stupor" comment if I were you.
The names Todd posted are not real MAW, you dolt.
Those were the names outside players used on Roger Wilco when we made the mistake of switching to an unsecure channel.
Now please continue your little "Move the fields closer" crsuade, and take that foot out of your mouth.
In closing, as emotional as BGB is, you still never named anyone.
Personally, I did'nt think you had the balls, but I figured I'd call you out on it anyway.
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Beetle....
As to your teeth, it's called humor and was delivered in a harmless fashion.
As to your no reply on vox, I was not suprised.....timid style of gameplay sits comfortably with your lack of sack. If your intimidated to the point that you can't answer a simple question regarding gameplay on vox, then I'll have no problem ignoring you in the future.....maybe:)
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Lazs - it's the bardar I was talking about. I think it might have been put there when AH was just starting up to help people find action. Hardly seems necessary now, especially on the children's maps.
Originally posted by Rude
Beetle....
As to your teeth, it's called humor and was delivered in a harmless fashion.
It's getting old, Rude, really, really, really old.
Zipp! I don't have to account to anyone. I don't have to account for my playing style, as it's my $14.95/month - not yours and not Rude's. Suck on that for a while. I can only counter it with certain .AHF films - but then I'd get accused of bragging, so what's the point?
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"beetle... in todays MA climate with the large timid squads like the maw... you would simply get more ganbanging without radar. At least now the maw run away when they see opposition... imagine if they could "sneak up" on stuff. Too many new guys seem addicted to the "mssun"... the combo of timid "missun" stuff and no dar would be a real gamebreaker."
Lazs ... you want to go head to head with BGB and Muck when posting ... cool, but please leave the rest of the MAW out of it. We are good bunch of guys who enjoy playing the game, and your assesment is completely wrong.
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muck said..
"Those were the names outside players used on Roger Wilco when we made the mistake of switching to an unsecure channel."
Oh... well then.. I guess I was misstaken. I retract my statement.. I don't know any maw that are any good. You do have the most "internet bada**" guys tho... No way you can call someone a punk on the internet and not be one tough mutha (or maw).
slap.. yeah... when you got that big a group I guess you get more than your share of morons... still... why would you be around em?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
slap.. yeah... when you got that big a group I guess you get more than your share of morons... still... why would you be around em?
lazs
Because, unless you fly with them, you would never really get to know them. Once you get to know them, they are all great guys ... no different than you and me.
I am sure there are plently who think that other members of the BKs are morons, but that won't change your opinion, because you really know who they are, more than someone who hasn't flown with them.
I had my reservations about you, Poop, Apache, but that all changed. I sought you guys out and flew with you rather than judge you by your BBS personalities ... since then, I came to the conclusion that all the BKs' are great guys and would fly with you guys any day - any time and not because you are any cooler than any member in the MAW. I judged each one separately for who they were and found that you guys are really no different than any member of the MAW. Gameplay maybe different, but personality-wise ... the same.
This thread has lost its course and it is now becoming a "piss on the MAW" thread. BGB's posts, incitefull and confusing as they are, are nothing more than "chain pulling" as a lot of your posts are. You guys can pull all the "chains" you want, but there is no need to drag a whole group into it.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
This thread has lost its course and it is now becoming a "piss on the MAW" thread. BGB's posts, incitefull and confusing as they are, are nothing more than "chain pulling" as a lot of your posts are. You guys can pull all the "chains" you want, but there is no need to drag a whole group into it.
Agreed. And the personal insults/country bashing thing is just starting up. This thread is past its sell by date. It was good, but I am unsubscribing as of this moment.
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Lazs what a poor pathetic person you are. Please go away. Crawl back into that little hole you came from.
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Originally posted by icemaw
Lazs what a poor pathetic person you are. Please go away. Crawl back into that little hole you came from.
Heya Ice. Nah, Lazs is cool - for real. Come to a CON and meet him.
I think his TV antenna broke last week and since he can't watch his favorite show, he spends his time fishing in his favorite hole (this thread.)
Ya know, there's a lot of guys whose online personna had convinced me they were total jerks. I met a lot of them at the last CON and all of them ranged from "Ok" to "Super."
curly
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Hey Curly....I was one of the super guys, right?
:)
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Well Curly I try to get along with everyone you know that how ever this guy keeps raggin on me and my squad I am gonna rag right back. If he could learn to STFU. I would never say another thing about him. We didnt ask him to start raggin on us he chose to. He can choose to STFU but I doubt he is capable of it.
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Laz,
We need more Furball friendly balance to this game, but when you attack a whole squad, i.e. the MAW - well then I guess you are to the BKs as BGB is to the MAW lolhrotff.
Sorry BGB 8) too funny couldn't pass that one up sitll lolrotffpm
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Originally posted by SlapShot
I am sure there are plently who think that other members of the BKs are morons, but that won't change your opinion, because you really know who they are, more than someone who hasn't flown with them.
Actually, I'm pretty sure most of the BKs feel the same way that everyone else does.
-- Moron
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Originally posted by beet1e
...but then I'd get accused of bragging, so what's the point?
What? You being accused of boasting or bragging? Get out! When did that start? Why wasn’t I notified? Has anyone else heard about this and if so from where?
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Originally posted by AKcurly
Ya know, there's a lot of guys whose online personna had convinced me they were total jerks. I met a lot of them at the last CON and all of them ranged from "Ok" to "Super."
curly
Would'nt it stand to reason, in general, that people will be much nicer in person than they are on a BBS?
I've seen things said on this and other boards by many people, that if said in a bar, would certainly result in a brawl.
I tend to think, curly, that the way a person acts on the BBS is really their true persona, and the face they put on when they meet you is the one they don't want smacked.
We'll see, I suppose.
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muck.. I think that anyone who met me at the con would tell you that I exactly the same in person. I don't say anything on here that I wouldn't say in person. I found the oppossite to be true. the guys who get real personal are the ones who tend to shut up in person. Most of my so called insults are general... anyone who get's insulted is reading into em. No doubt guilt plays a role.
As for lumping all the maw together... that is a little unfair I will admit. I can't imagine that all of em are pathetic top gun wannabes who can't control their temper and think they are internet tough guys.or pathetic slurring drunks. Slap seems ok. Haven't talked to the rest but ya gotta admit.... odds are...
lazs
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Actually, lazs, I was just making a general observation that had no regards to you whatsoever and was responding to Curly, but thanks for your input.
Have a great day!
:)
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zip... I was shocked too. Next they will be saying he is a blowhard and obtuse... where will it all end?
lazs
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Lazs!!!!!!!!!1
thank you...u are a much bettr guy now..
Crap ..i gave some HS kids a case of beer to tp ur house...im bak otw dixon now to stop them...
Salute:)
BiGB
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did I miss something?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
did I miss something?
lazs
Middle age?:D
I think BGB's Meds just kicked in....
How ya feelin' bro?
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Would'nt it stand to reason, in general, that people will be much nicer in person than they are on a BBS?
I've seen things said on this and other boards by many people, that if said in a bar, would certainly result in a brawl.
I tend to think, curly, that the way a person acts on the BBS is really their true persona, and the face they put on when they meet you is the one they don't want smacked.
We'll see, I suppose.
Nah, Muck - I'm an old fat man - not whipping anyone. :) If they're nice to me, they're generally ok. I have a wart on my nose too. :)
curly
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FURBALLERS AND STRAT GUYS ONLY COLLIDE ON THE AHBBS.
Lets move on gentleman shall we?
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Originally posted by AKcurly
Nah, Muck - I'm an old fat man - not whipping anyone. :) If they're nice to me, they're generally ok. I have a wart on my nose too. :)
curly
So basically, they got you drunk and propped you up in the corner is what your saying?:D
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punt
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Originally posted by lazs2
muck.. I think that anyone who met me at the con would tell you that I exactly the same in person. I don't say anything on here that I wouldn't say in person. I found the oppossite to be true. the guys who get real personal are the ones who tend to shut up in person. Most of my so called insults are general... anyone who get's insulted is reading into em. No doubt guilt plays a role.
As for lumping all the maw together... that is a little unfair I will admit. I can't imagine that all of em are pathetic top gun wannabes who can't control their temper and think they are internet tough guys.or pathetic slurring drunks. Slap seems ok. Haven't talked to the rest but ya gotta admit.... odds are...
lazs
I met Lazs at the con, and I can say he's a pretty nice guy for a gay liberal left wing democrat...
Just kidding. Seriously he's pretty much the same dry crumudgeon in person as he is on the boards, and from what I saw he'd say to your face anything he'd say here.
Shockingly enough he's one of those people who can say what they think without any venom at all. Taking his comments personally is probably a mistake, and will lead to all kinds of needless posts on the bbs.
JMOHO, YMMV, HTH, HAND.
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puck... ya gotta admit... the "needless posts" are kinda fun tho.
lazs
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"....Personally, I did'nt think you had the balls, but I figured I'd call you out on it anyway....".
Calling somebody out, having balls....all from the anonymous comfort of your home across the Internet. What a bunch of losers. Probably the same type that has to fly surrounded by a couple hundred friendlies.
yowser
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Originally posted by yowser
"....Personally, I did'nt think you had the balls, but I figured I'd call you out on it anyway....".
Calling somebody out, having balls....all from the anonymous comfort of your home across the Internet. What a bunch of losers. Probably the same type that has to fly surrounded by a couple hundred friendlies.
yowser
Gee, 3 posts...an obvious MAW comment..I wonder who's Alias "Yowser" is.:rolleyes:
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Give them a bone LAZS, make a furball AREAN :D