Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: VansCrew1 on May 25, 2007, 07:50:04 AM
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whos the world war 2 ace that you like them most,and dose what he flew play a part on what you fly in Aces High?
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i like,Major George E Preddy, Jr. with his 26.83 kills in Cripes A'Mighty (P-47D), Cripes A'Mighty ("B" model Mustang), Cripes A'Mighty 3rd and Cripes A'Mighty( "D" Model Mustangs). He was the leading ace of the 352nd and one of the top acres of them americans in world war 2.
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(http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/bar1.jpg)
Heinz "Pritzel" Baer
222 Kills Eastern Front, Western Front, and the Med.
109s,190s, and 262s.
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Originally posted by VansCrew1
whos the world war 2 are that you like them most,
G.I. Joe................
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Not an ace...but Lt. Gen. James Stewart is probably one of my great heroes for his consistent sense of duty, honor, and integrity.
Had a long family tradition of military service to his county, and tried repeatedly to get into the Army Air Corps -- starting over a year before Pearl. Finally had to sneak past the weight requirement to enlist, on his 3rd try. His pay dropped from $72,000 per year to $260 per year. Despite his Hollywood fame, the only time he pulled strings was to make sure he was assigned to combat status rather than serving as a stateside B-17 pilot instructor (his initial assignment). Contrast that with Bob Hope, whose rear area entertainment got way more attention, and who made a joke out of not enlisting -- "Hey, that's dangerous! I might get hurt! (Nothing against Bob Hope, an icon in his own right. Just meaning to contrast the choices available to Stewart.)
He served as operations officer of the 445th bomb group, and then its commander. He was moved to the new 453rd BG to help iron out some difficulties there, and later rose to be chief of staff for the entire wing. He flew 20 combat missions, in time spans that were simply the most lethal for pilots in US history: statistically speaking, in those days you shouldnt have been able to make it to the 25 mission tour goal.
He was awarded The DFC, the Croix de Guerre, and 7 air medals. He remained active in the reserves and continued to serve in executive roles in the Air Force until mandatory retirement age.
But best of all, he never capitalized on his war record. He put clauses in post war movie contracts prohibiting studios from even mentioning it. He didnt talk much about his service, and redirected attention to those who served without fame -- and those who didnt make it home.
He honestly felt he only did his duty. That's the kind of integrity and honor that's worth idolizing.
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^ :aok
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(http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/hartm1-1.jpg)
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
(http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/hartm1-1.jpg)
Who would have ever guessed?:rolleyes:
:D
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(http://www.stormbirdsannex.com/images/sundin/pilot_galland.jpg)
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(http://www.airpower.at/news03/0813_luftkrieg_ostmark/thalerhof_1941-marseille.jpg)
Hans-Joachim Marseille
"Star of Africa"
17 confirmed air-to-air kills in one day (Sept. 1st 1942) ...incredible
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Chuck Yeager by far is my WWII pilot hero, if you haven't read his autobiography suggest you do if you have the time.
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Heinrich Bartels.
(http://www.luftwaffe.cz/images/bartels2.jpg)
9 Spitfires, 9 P-47s, 11 P-51s and 14 P-38s kills.
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Emil "Bully" Lang:aok
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Joe Foss
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Originally posted by Larry
Emil "Bully" Lang:aok
Good choice. :aok
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(http://koti.mbnet.fi/~jjuvonen/photos/pilots/luukkanen.jpg)
Eino Luukkanen, Major, CO of LLv34 ;)
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That "Sky Captain" guy, because he did things in a "P-40" that no other pilot could dream of doing!
:lol :lol :rofl :rofl :cry
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Hartmann
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Any of the aces that were also decent and good people, like Sakai, Bader, Gabreski and Galland.
Not people who promoted themselves like Closterman, that P-38 ace who "beat a top RAF ace who was flying a Spitfire XV" or so on.
And most definately not bonfied Nazis or Imperialists like Rudel.
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Originally posted by VansCrew1
whos the world war 2 ace that you like them most,and dose what he flew play a part on what you fly in Aces High?
Johnnie Johnson, RAF, far ahead of any other.
Heh. His choice of aircraft in real life is markedly different from my choice in pretend life, however.
- oldman
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As I said before Lang is my faverit, but if it as american Richard Ira Bong is it.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Any of the aces that were also decent and good people, like Sakai, Bader, Gabreski and Galland.
Not people who promoted themselves like Closterman, that P-38 ace who "beat a top RAF ace who was flying a Spitfire XV" or so on.
And most definately not bonfied Nazis or Imperialists like Rudel.
A note for my Israeli friends: Rudel's story is presented here because of his military exploits, and for no other reason. I do not seek to glorify or apologize for the atrocious crimes committed by the German political leadership against Europe's Jews and other religious and ethnic minorities from 1933-45. Hans Ulrich Rudel was not a member of the Nazi party, participated in no war crimes, did not go into hiding after the war, and was never even accused of any such activities by any organization or Nazi-hunter, including the Shin Bet.
http://members.aol.com/ab763/rudel.htm
Rudel's input was used during the development of the A-10 ground attack aircraft.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Ulrich_Rudel
It seems he did join a group when he returned to Germany after the war that is said to be a precursor of a Neo-Nazi organization, but when he was a member they tried to distance themselves as much as possible from Hitler. It appears to me he was a Socialist.:(
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Not sure if my grandpa was an ace or not ~ but he was a jug pilot in the pacific ~ and was among a rare group (enlisted pilots). Actually, I think by the time he was a pilot it was in that transition period, during which the name had been changed to Flight Officer, but the pay was still calculated at enlisted ranks. Not long after, the pay was also transitioned to Officer tables as well.
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I have to say I'm a Boyington fan.
Did he exaggerate his record? Probably, but even the more conservative of estimates place him fairly high among America's aces. For all his faults, no one can say that Boyington wasn't an excellent pilot and fighter.
I'm not saying anyone should make a role model of him, as "Colorful" doesn't begin to describe him, but I think that's part of what makes him such an interesting character.
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Rudolf Peresin!
Oh wait, we are talking ww2:( Mato Dukovac then.
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Hub Zemke...great leader.
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e6/Johannes_Steinhoff.jpg)
Johannes SteinHoff...
oh and this fella :D
Kinda looks like Guy version of Cameron Diaz :lol
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/56/Erich_Hartmann.jpg)
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deleted
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(http://images.allmoviephoto.com/2001_Pearl_Harbor/ben_affleck_pearl_harbor_001.jpg)
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Those I look the most toward wouldn't be easily recognizable by some, except you few who know me well but I will go with:
Otto Kittel. Eastern Front, 267 confirmed victories. He made it all the way to Feb. of '45. Somewhere around the 16th of that month he took on a group of (8) IL2's. His FW190 A8 took fire, burst into flames and he was gone.
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Being a former "Jar Head" & "Boozebag" I'll have to go with the obvious.
Maj. Greg "Pappy" Boyington
Love the Corsair, dosen't mean I can fly it.
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There are many pilots who left an impression with me.
One of those is Walter Beckham... He's on the right, Walker Mahurin is on the left. Beckham was the leading USAAF ace in the ETO (18) until a one in a million flak hit brought him down.
(http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery/353g/walker.jpg)
(http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery/353g/yj-x.jpg)
My regards,
Widewing
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I got a few. Galland, Hartmann, Olds (he flew 38's), Johnnie Johnson, Yeager, Foss, Gabreski, and Bong.
Falcon
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None.
I find it hard to look up to murder even in a conflict.
and yes,war is murder.
"hugs a tree"
lol "yes i pay to murder people in a virtual inviroment,and so do you."
I would rather be shot ten thousand times before i shoot someone else and watch the life drain from there eyes.
My life is nothing,my soul is everything, you take someone else's life..a part of your soul dies with them, ask anyone whos taken life.
some can justify it,but in the end the truth always comes back on them,look how many men beg forgivness on there deathbeds for taking the life of another, for whatever the reason or justifecation.
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Is it a murder to defend your country in war?
It's a cruel word Karma, do it to them before they do it to do.Croatian airforce history is full of people who defected because they did want to kill their countrymen, but those who were killing them.
Go hug a tree:D
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Walter Kupinski, met him at the EAA fly in a while back ago. Interesting man to talk to, Flew 109's and 262's.
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I have 4.
Col. Francis S. "Gabby" Gabrieski. Flew the P47 for the 56th FG. Had 28 victories in World War II and another 6.5 in Korea.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/859_1180118048_gab-1.jpg)
Lt. Col Robert S. Johnson. Flew the P47 for the for the 56th FG. Had 27 victories.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/859_1180118091_johnson2.jpg)
Col. Charles H. McDonald. Commander of the 475th FG, flew the P38, and totaled 27 victories.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/859_1180118073_aamacdonald1.jpg)
Cmdr. David McCampbell. Flew F6fs aboard the USS Essex. Commanded Essex's air fleet. Totaled 34 victories.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/859_1180118948_mccamp.jpg)
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Douglas Bader :)
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Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
None.
I find it hard to look up to murder even in a conflict.
and yes,war is murder.
Sometimes death is necessary, killing a murderer is not murder, killing a rapist or child rapist, some people need to be put down.
And i look up to everyone who fought for there country and didnt run from the responsibility, especially the pilots of ww2.
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I have quite a lot. I admire people like Marseille for its amazing aim, impressive flying skills and killer instict, or like Molders or Malan for their mastery of tactics, people like Galland and Priller for their strong presence and leadership, Hartmann, because he cared for his wingmen more than for victories and never lost one in combat, and many others, like Beurling, McGuire, Gabresky, Sakai, Bader, Rall, etc, etc.
But I don't fly their planes, mostly, I have my style (suicidial, mostly :D) and I fly the planes that best suits it. :)
Oh, and Simaril... I love Jimmy Stewart, too! :)
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Originally posted by Xargos
Who would have ever guessed?:rolleyes: :D
All growing up my brother had an oil painting of Hartmann's G6 that was painted by my Grandma. I was going to hang it up by my desk, but I did the right thing, I gave it back to my brother and he forgot all about it. I helped him hang it up.
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(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/8229/lynch01bx5.jpg)
Tom Lynch's Aerial Victories
Rank Unit Num Date
YYMMDD Plane
1LT 39 Ftr Sqn 2 420520 P-39
1LT 39 Ftr Sqn 1 420526 P-39
CPT 39 Ftr Sqn 2 421227 P-38
CPT 39 Ftr Sqn 2 421231 P-38
CPT 39 Ftr Sqn 1 430107 P-38
CPT 39 Ftr Sqn 1 430303 P-38
CPT 39 Ftr Sqn 1 430508 P-38
CPT 39 Ftr Sqn 1 430612 P-38
MAJ 39 Ftr Sqn 2 430820 P-38
MAJ 39 Ftr Sqn 1 430821 P-38
MAJ 39 Ftr Sqn 1 430904 P-38
MAJ 39 Ftr Sqn 1 430916 P-38
MAJ 5th Ftr Com 1 440210 P-38
LTC 5th Ftr Com 2 440303 P-38
LTC 5th Ftr Com 1 440305 P-38
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Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
None.
I find it hard to look up to murder even in a conflict.
and yes,war is murder.
"hugs a tree"
lol "yes i pay to murder people in a virtual inviroment,and so do you."
I would rather be shot ten thousand times before i shoot someone else and watch the life drain from there eyes.
My life is nothing,my soul is everything, you take someone else's life..a part of your soul dies with them, ask anyone whos taken life.
some can justify it,but in the end the truth always comes back on them,look how many men beg forgivness on there deathbeds for taking the life of another, for whatever the reason or justifecation.
Perfect example of why the bong should be put away for at least three hours before posting..:confused:
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I suppose because I read "Fly For Your Life" when I was young, Wing Cdr Robert S. Tuck, RAF.
He flew in the RAF pre war, was a BoB ace, was eventually downed by flak over France in 1942, and continued to plot his escape after being captured, which he did, eventually escaping.
He was a fighter leader and an ace, and just a solid fellow. One of those guys that didnt have "quit" in his vocabulary.
There are others, both axis and allied, but I guess "Lucky Tuck" just stands out for me.
As for mimicking his flying style? I wish, but I doubt I can come close.
Ya, it would be nice to see folks not just "cut and paste" the obvious score board leaders, anybody can do that, but do you really know anything about them? Not trying to sound like a jerk, but maybe read up on a few.
BaDkaRmA158Th- Ya there is always some jerk off that spews nonsense in a feeble effort to sound "profound", please spare us.
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I really look up to David McCampbell who had 34 Aerial victories and he also shot down 7 aircraft in one day in the "Marianas Turkey Shoot".
Erich Hartmann would have to be my second.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Johnnie Johnson, RAF, far ahead of any other.
Heh. His choice of aircraft in real life is markedly different from my choice in pretend life, however.
- oldman
I like Johnnie as well. He didn't have the ego of Bader. An honourable mention should go out to George Beurling. I would never have wanted to fly with him due the high loss rates of his wingmen. He once shot down a 190 and got back into formation with his squadies without them ever realising he was missing. They had to look at the gun cam footage to verify his kill claim.
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Originally posted by VVV
I really look up to David McCampbell who had 34 Aerial victories and he also shot down 7 aircraft in one day in the "Marianas Turkey Shoot".
Erich Hartmann would have to be my second.
McCampbell shot down 9 that sortie, with his wingman getting 6 more.
My regards,
Widewing
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Ilmari Juutilainen would be mine , if i have to pick one.
98 kills never damage from enemy fiter.
Flyed timid too...
ps, read his book
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Hartmann. Galland is close 2nd.
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1st ones arent in dividual aces but combined they are an ace crew Jay Zeamer's B-17 crew (1 B-17E Vs. 17 A6m3 Zeros: B-17 won)
and
Capt. Stanley "Swede" Vejtasa 11 kills 4 in SBD (3 zeros vs himself he out dogfaught [<- is that a word] them and shot em all down) and 7 kills in the F4F and FM2 Wildcat fighters
Finally the unsung and unknown hero
The P-38 pilot who was escorting B-17's on their may 12th 1944 mission to Zwickau, Germany whose callsign was "Balance1". He single-handedly broke up an enemy attack of 50+ planes by split S-ing down into their formation and blowing up 2 of them on his before leaving one smoking and the rest dissappearing into the cloud deck with him still giving chase!
~for full story of that incident read pages 111-113 of Truman Smith's The Wrong Stuff the adventures and misadventures of an 8th air force aviator
buy that book ^ its the best d*mn book about a B-17 pilots memories of WWII ive ever read, ive read the little SOB about 10 times allready!
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I don't think I could pick out a single pilot. They are ALL my hero's.
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Originally posted by Squire
I suppose because I read "Fly For Your Life" when I was young, Wing Cdr Robert S. Tuck, RAF.
That was a good book and Tuck was one of the good ones. It saddened me when I heard he'd died in '87.
After I read it, my mom read it and she normally doesn't read those kinds of books. She said the thought it would be trite and one sided, but after reading it she thought is was a good book that portrayed him as human with good and bad points. She said I should keep the book, but I misplaced it somewhere.
I think that book played a large part in creating my interest in the RAF and Spitfires.
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Originally posted by killnu
Hartmann. Galland is close 2nd.
So, why didn't you choose "Bubi" as your new handle, KillnU? :D
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Ya, I wanted to meet him one day. He didnt give many interviews, I did see him featured on "The World At War" which was a BBC doc from the 1970s.
So much history and they are almost all gone now.
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Tell you what, if i was put into the position to kill people, and 80 years later some dip **** looks upto me for my deed,ill call him a retard.
And like i said before,you can justify it anyway you want,the rule is the rule.
you TAKE life,you are murder.
does not matter if the life you took WAS a murderer.
Just because you can justify something will never make it right.
"you killed my brother there for that grants me right to slaughter every member of your family."
understand?
and looking upto someone because they killed more people!?
you are nuts, did you ever think most pilots hoped to holy hell the people they shot down made it out alive?
any soldier or pilot preys for peace, because it is them who suffers most.
for the taking of life.
Period.
Now i do not begrudge these people, im just trying to hit two sides of the coin here.
What is amazing is how these people found a way to live past the war with taking life without enough guilt to blow themselfs away.
"and many did,however unknown to there friends/family/community/country"
Life IS such.
Bu|| $|-|17 your selfs otherwise all you want.
:aok
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Col. Donald Blakeslee
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Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
Tell you what, if i was put into the position to kill people, and 80 years later some dip **** looks upto me for my deed,ill call him a retard.
And like i said before,you can justify it anyway you want,the rule is the rule.
you TAKE life,you are murder.
does not matter if the life you took WAS a murderer.
Just because you can justify something will never make it right.
"you killed my brother there for that grants me right to slaughter every member of your family."
understand?
and looking upto someone because they killed more people!?
you are nuts, did you ever think most pilots hoped to holy hell the people they shot down made it out alive?
any soldier or pilot preys for peace, because it is them who suffers most.
for the taking of life.
Period.
Now i do not begrudge these people, im just trying to hit two sides of the coin here.
What is amazing is how these people found a way to live past the war with taking life without enough guilt to blow themselfs away.
"and many did,however unknown to there friends/family/community/country"
Life IS such.
Bu|| $|-|17 your selfs otherwise all you want.
:aok
Vast difference between a Soldier, and a Murderer. Not only vast, but obvious. Using your logic, should we get rid of Police Officers as well? If they take a life to save innocent life, are they murders too? If your attempting to come across as some noble soul that's above it all, it's not working. Your the one B.S.ing himself. Why not leave this thread so it can continue for it's intended purpose? :)
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Too many to list.
Peter Spoden, he had some funny stories to tell, the most pleasant gentleman of the aces I've ever met, flew night fighters for Germany during the war.
All of the Finnish ones, and all of whom I've met (the Finnish ones, the German ones, the British gentleman and the Russian/Soviet gentleman).
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My man would be Hamilton Mcwerder became an ace in one day of the carrier USS Randolf He flew an F6F-5 "Hellcat" one of the peticular paint schemes on the hellcat in AH with the stripes on the tail and the white ailerons is one of his buddys "11" it says, hes nuber "5"
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Hartmann
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BaDkaRmA158Th,
How old are you?
You seem to look at things in a very black and white fashion. That is an adolescent way of seeing things. In adult views things are shades of grey and circumstances change an action's appropriateness.
Further, soldiers are only murderers when they kill civilians intentionally or enemy soldiers who are trying to surrender.
This is precise.
Why?
Because murder is defined as the unlawful killing of another human being.
Therefor when one soldier kills an enemy soldier who was not surrendering he or she is not murdering that person as it is a lawful killing.
That is why people who kill somebody in self defense are not considered murderers either, because those killings are lawful.
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BaDKaMa158Th,
what is your problem? they only killed eachother for the simple reason is that what they had to do. you join the military today and you go over there and you have some guy tring to kill you with an explosive bomb attached to his waist, trieng to kill you because your on the wrong side? no sir, I called that self defence. and they are called heroes because they "murderd" a few people, no they are heroes becuse they did what was right for their country.
I am 14 and am currently reading a book called "My Men Are My Heroes" I sugjest that you read it. it talks about a man named SGT. MAJ.(sargent major) Cassel a naval man who got the naval cross for going into a building with only a pistol got shot about 5 times and still "murderd" people. he got it for that reason. but you'll never know what it will be like for people that you don't even know look up to you becuse you think killing is mudering people. and if your ever in that perdiciment and you become a POW they will call it a "war crime" not murder. so next time you say somthing like that talk to all the medal of honor recipiants or naval cross and ask them what they think now that they are the hero. learn your facts
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Any excuse to post this picture.
Outside of my marriage and my kids, probably the most memorable event of my life, getting to be a part of the reunion of 41 Squadron at RAF Coltishall in 1985.
Classiest bunch of folks I've ever met and an "ace' every one. The Spit XII pilots of 41 Squadron with some dweeb allowed in the picture.
While I fly 38s in AH, these guys are my heros. I'll forever feel privilaged to have gotten to meet them and to know some of them well. Sadly most are gone now.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Coltishall.jpg)
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Originally posted by VVV
I really look up to David McCampbell who had 34 Aerial victories and he also shot down 7 aircraft in one day in the "Marianas Turkey Shoot".
Erich Hartmann would have to be my second.
McCampbell got 9 victories that day. He also kept score on his dash.
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Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
Tell you what, if i was put into the position to kill people, and 80 years later some dip **** looks upto me for my deed,ill call him a retard.
And like i said before,you can justify it anyway you want,the rule is the rule.
you TAKE life,you are murder.
does not matter if the life you took WAS a murderer.
Just because you can justify something will never make it right.
"you killed my brother there for that grants me right to slaughter every member of your family."
understand?
and looking upto someone because they killed more people!?
you are nuts, did you ever think most pilots hoped to holy hell the people they shot down made it out alive?
any soldier or pilot preys for peace, because it is them who suffers most.
for the taking of life.
Period.
Now i do not begrudge these people, im just trying to hit two sides of the coin here.
What is amazing is how these people found a way to live past the war with taking life without enough guilt to blow themselfs away.
"and many did,however unknown to there friends/family/community/country"
Life IS such.
Bu|| $|-|17 your selfs otherwise all you want.
:aok
Sure thing teenager. Buy a Dictionary, some may take you seriously next time. You're a tool.
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Nice pic Dan!:aok
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Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
Tell you what, if i was put into the position to kill people, and 80 years later some dip **** looks upto me for my deed,ill call him a retard.
And like i said before,you can justify it anyway you want,the rule is the rule.
you TAKE life,you are murder.
does not matter if the life you took WAS a murderer.
Just because you can justify something will never make it right.
"you killed my brother there for that grants me right to slaughter every member of your family."
understand?
and looking upto someone because they killed more people!?
you are nuts, did you ever think most pilots hoped to holy hell the people they shot down made it out alive?
any soldier or pilot preys for peace, because it is them who suffers most.
for the taking of life.
Period.
Now i do not begrudge these people, im just trying to hit two sides of the coin here.
What is amazing is how these people found a way to live past the war with taking life without enough guilt to blow themselfs away.
"and many did,however unknown to there friends/family/community/country"
Life IS such.
Bu|| $|-|17 your selfs otherwise all you want.
:aok
You sir are a ****ing idiot. Have a nice day:aok
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1,----
Hans Ulrich Rudel
- logged 2,530 combat missions,
victories;
518+ Tanks
700 Trucks
150+ Flak and Artillery positions
9 Fighter/Ground Attack Aircraft
Hundreds of bridges, railway lines, bunkers, etc.
Battleship October Revolution, Cruiser Marat, and 70 landing craft
was shot down 32 times, but survieved the war died in "80s
2,
Constantin M, Cantacuzino (http://www.hobby.ro/roarmy/aviatia/cantacuzino%20bizu/bizu.htm) (Linda Grey 's father), 56 victories
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Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
Tell you what, if i was put into the position to kill people, and 80 years later some dip **** looks upto me for my deed,ill call him a retard.
And like i said before,you can justify it anyway you want,the rule is the rule.
you TAKE life,you are murder.
does not matter if the life you took WAS a murderer.
I really hate moral cowards and hypocrites like this guy. You can extrapolate from what he said that it would be beneath him to defend his family, friends or country if it might require killing another person, as it would jeopardize his spiritual well-being. And on top of that, he has to spout off, essentially calling every soldier who defended his country in WWII a criminal murderer.
It's obvious he would be perfectly happy to let someone else do the dirty work and carry the guilt should ever the need arise to defend his family by taking an evil life. Or, maybe the magic fairy will appear, wave her wand, and make all the big, bad guys go away. Next stop, La La Land.
He is also a sanctimonious fool, who tries to live in his perfect world while he preaches to everyone else how terrible our parents and grandparents were in protecting that which they cherished and did not wish to see crushed by a truely immorl and evil force. He's happy to condemn those who, realizing the often imperfect and sometimes cruel world they and we live in, were willing to try to improve that world by defending home, family and country. These heroes regretfully accepted the burden of guilt and personal consequences in taking a life, however justified. With the only unperishable spirit of youth to briefly shield them, they did not, and today's heroes do not, avoid this responsibility by hiding behind a fallacious moral high ground as he does.
I hope someday he realizes BEFORE it actually happens, what the true and greater spiritual and moral damage will incur if someone he loves is slaughtered because he could not bring himself to take a life even in justifiable defence.
"Rage, Rage, come to me as a storming torrent, that I might lash unto death those who desecrate my blood, body and soul.
Lift my fist to strike in justice, those who scour my bloodline from this beloved land.
Whip tears from my eyes and give me stone for a heart, to break all evil upon it.
Let me revel not in vile deeds, nor suffer the honor or kindness of men this day.
Rage come to me! For I am the whirlwind Death, and I go to smite with thee!"
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Saburo Sakai's book is still the best one i have read so far.
And of course any member of "The Few" who stood alone. They are my heroes.
Bruv
~S~
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On topic, foremost I admire Chenault for his intelligence and leadership and all the AVG pilots who fought their aircraft's advantages brilliantly and against great odds, as underdogs for a little respected people in dire need. Talk about outnumbered and alone!
And, though I don't remember his name from the "Dogfight" series, the pilot of the SBD (TBM?) who was forced to take on multiple Zero's in a supremely non-fighter aircraft. He was cool, self-assured (not cocky) and unshakeable, with IMMENSE patience, nerve and tactical savvy.
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I guess I would have to say some of the most amazing stories I've read have been from the pilots with the Polish Air Force. Pilots like Gabreski, Skalski, Gladych, Urbanowicz, and Zumbach to name a few that come to mind. The highest scoring squadron was the 303 Kosciuszko Squadron during the Battle of Britian. A couple of fantastic books are "A Question of Honor" by Stanley Cloud & Lynn Olsen and "The Forgotten Few" by Adam Zamoyski. (I could go on for a while but I'll let those who want to read more decide for themselves).
Urbanowicz in particular, has an amazing story. He is the only pilot that had flown for three (3) air forces. The Polish, British, and American forces. Urbanowicz is also the the only allied pilot that flew with the Flying Tigers. Urbanowicz had three (3) confirmed victories with the Tigers and finished the war with a total of 20 ariel victories.
I do admit that I'm partial to reading about the Polish pilots because I had a great uncle (Jan Obuchowski) who flew with the French in 1940. The squadron was I/145. He was shot down and died in a Caudron 714 on June 10, 1940.
In all, I would say that any man that had the courage to jump into a cockpit and face amazing odds, not knowing if they would return, has my respect.
Obie:aok
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"Pipz" Priller
Certified Spit-killer (68) from start to finish (http://www.luftwaffe.cz/spit.html) while flying the Fw 190:p
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obie303,
who cares if you are reading about a bunch of poloks. I am a polok myself! I have not read much abut these guys but it would be neat to read about them
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Originally posted by Obie303
I guess I would have to say some of the most amazing stories I've read have been from the pilots with the Polish Air Force. Pilots like Gabreski, Skalski, Gladych, Urbanowicz, and Zumbach to name a few that come to mind. The highest scoring squadron was the 303 Kosciuszko Squadron during the Battle of Britian. A couple of fantastic books are "A Question of Honor" by Stanley Cloud & Lynn Olsen and "The Forgotten Few" by Adam Zamoyski. (I could go on for a while but I'll let those who want to read more decide for themselves).
Urbanowicz in particular, has an amazing story. He is the only pilot that had flown for three (3) air forces. The Polish, British, and American forces. Urbanowicz is also the the only allied pilot that flew with the Flying Tigers. Urbanowicz had three (3) confirmed victories with the Tigers and finished the war with a total of 20 ariel victories.
I do admit that I'm partial to reading about the Polish pilots because I had a great uncle (Jan Obuchowski) who flew with the French in 1940. The squadron was I/145. He was shot down and died in a Caudron 714 on June 10, 1940.
In all, I would say that any man that had the courage to jump into a cockpit and face amazing odds, not knowing if they would return, has my respect.
Obie:aok
Heh, ya stole my thunder. Robert Johnson is up there for me, but Mike Gladych was a human wrecking ball in the P47--he escaped from a Romanian prison camp, flew with some fellow Poles in France, got to Britain after France fell, flew spits, then ended up with the 56th flying jugs--Johnson says the guy so hated Germans that he witnessed him trying to RAM an enemy fighter after he (Gladych) ran out of ammo, lol what an animal---he survived the war, had a few planes shot out from under him. Would loved to have been able to meet the guy
http://members.chello.be/kurt.weygantt/worldwariiaces.index.html_boleslaw_mike_gladych.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boles%C5%82aw_G%C5%82adych
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Obie303, Gabreski was an American. He never flew with the Poles prior to several being attached to the 56th FG. Indeed, Gabby was at Pearl Harbor on 12/7/41. He was born in Pennsylvania, not Poland. His parents had come from Poland at the turn of the century.
Gabby lived about 15 minutes from me. I would see him around from time to time. His Plymouth had a vanity plate that said T-BOLT.
The last opportunity I had to talk with Gabby was in the summer of 2001. He is much missed by me and the local community.
My regards,
Widewing
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Widewing, sorry, but you're not correct on this: I know that Gabresky flew with polish RAF squadron with Spitfires (the 315th, IIRC) before joining the 56th. And, being born in the US from polish parents doesn't make him less polish, although american citizen. ;)
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Bong!!!!:aok
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Originally posted by Gianlupo
Widewing, sorry, but you're not correct on this: I know that Gabresky flew with polish RAF squadron with Spitfires (the 315th, IIRC) before joining the 56th. And, being born in the US from polish parents doesn't make him less polish, although american citizen. ;)
Yes, you are correct. I had completely forgotten about his foray with 315 squadron. I think he flew something like 25 to 30 generally uneventful sorties.
My regards,
Widewing
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Col. Greg (Pappy) Boyington.
I was extremely lucky to be able to interview Boyington on my radio show twice, and met him in person as well. He was truly genuine, and carried volumes of history in his head.
I got to know him pretty well.
I visit his grave at Arlington whenever I am in the area. He is right near Lee Marvin and Joe Louis.
<> Pappy
68ROX
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What was it one of his friends said when he noticed how close he was to Lewis' grave?
"Ol' Pappy wouldn't have to go far to find a good fight."
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Originally posted by Widewing
Yes, you are correct. I had completely forgotten about his foray with 315 squadron. I think he flew something like 25 to 30 generally uneventful sorties.
My regards,
Widewing
Woo ooooh! I got him in fault! :D ;) (yep, they were 25, I think, no kills)
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Originally posted by ghi
1,----
Hans Ulrich Rudel
- logged 2,530 combat missions,
victories;
518+ Tanks
700 Trucks
150+ Flak and Artillery positions
9 Fighter/Ground Attack Aircraft
Hundreds of bridges, railway lines, bunkers, etc.
Battleship October Revolution, Cruiser Marat, and 70 landing craft
was shot down 32 times
Sounds like he flew in the MA :lol
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robin olds
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BaDkaRmA158Th-
I think we are done with you. So move along and find another BB to fill with your self-righteous claptrap.
Clear enough?
:aok
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Here's mine. Anyone who can fly a dog house and land it after the way it was shot up is my hero!
(http://static.flickr.com/28/56136967_778bfb5b14_o.jpg)
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Originally posted by Widewing
McCampbell shot down 9 that sortie, with his wingman getting 6 more.
My regards,
Widewing
Wow, even better.
Thanks for the correction sir.
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who cares if you are reading about a bunch of poloks. I am a polok myself! I have not read much abut these guys but it would be neat to read about them
Bosco123, I can't get any more Polish!:D As I posted earlier, I've read several books about the Polish Forces in WW II. I gave an example of my two favorite books about the Polish Air Force. I would highly recommend them and several other. It will amaze you!
Gabreski was an American. He never flew with the Poles prior to several being attached to the 56th FG. Indeed, Gabby was at Pearl Harbor on 12/7/41. He was born in Pennsylvania, not Poland. His parents had come from Poland at the turn of the century.
Widewing, I know that Gabreski was an American. I included Gabreski because he was of Polish decent and that he did fly for the Polish Air Force, as Gianlupo mentioned. I must admit though. I do envy you because you've had the opportunity to have met many of these great men! Dan too!
The one thing that truely astonishes me is that to this day, most people don't truely know how much the Polish Forces contributed to the Allied cause and in return, were betrayed by the British and Americans when they allowed Stalin to take over their country. The Polish contributed to breaking the Enigma codes, the Polish Airborne in Operation Market Garden, and the Polish 2nd Corp at the Battle of Monte Cassino, just to name a few. The British didn't allow the Polish any Yugoslavian forces to march in the Victory Parades in 45' because they thought it would insult Stalin!
I don't mean to ramble. It just seems that most people always forget how much the Polish lost and still continued to fight despite the odds.
(http://www.answers.com/topic/poland-first-to-fight-jpg)
Obie:aok
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See set signature. In addition, I fly sort of his style such as only firing from close range. Of which I can't hit anything more than 200 out anyway.
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I've read a lot of ace biographies but Marmaduke Pattle's was the story which stuck with me the most. Pattle was a South African who flew with the RAF in the desert campaign in 1940 and later in Greece in 41.
In the desert he flew Gladiators with 80 Squadron, fighting usually outnumbered against Italian fighters. He was an incredible shot, had excellent eyesight and was a great aerobatic pilot and tactician. In Greece the RAF were even more heavily outnumbered but by February 1941, when the RAF in Greece was finally given Hurricanes, Pattle had scored 15.5 kills in the Gladiator.
In March Pattle was given command of 33 Squadron and continued to rack up kills, even when the Germans joined the Italians in April. By this point the handful of RAF and Greek squadrons with mostly obsolete aircraft were up against around 1000 Axis aircraft.
On 20th April Pattle lead 15 Hurricanes against a LW raid of around 100 aircraft over Athens. He was exhausted and suffering from influenza but flew on anyway to preseve the morale of his squadron. Seeing a lone Hurricane beset by Me110s Pattle dove in to help, shooting down two before he was killed and crashed into the sea.
During the nine months he fought against the odds Pattle was given official credit for 34 combat victories. However during the retreats in the desert and in Greece many RAF records were destroyed so his actual total may have been much higher than that. It was probably more than 40 and could even have been over 50.
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Been on this game 3 yrs, first time to post.
My favorite WW2 ace would have to be Lance Wade, a fellow Texan,He joined the RAF in 1940. Became a squadron leader in 1943, (No.145)and
Wing Commander later that year. He is credited with 25 kills.
DFC/ Bar, DSO
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Luftwaffe pilots are the ones I look up to the most.
There are so many.... all of the well-known ones of course. For the sake of this thread, I'd have to say Adolf Galland
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/plague_06/galland4.jpg)
Not so much for his victory tally, but for having a cigar lighter installed in his 109 and for using that 109 to ferry champagne to parties :rofl
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Leland Blair, of the real 80th Headhunters, figured out that he could get 58 bottles fo Scotch into his P38. Ya gotta like that kind of creative thinking :)
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Originally posted by Obie303
Widewing, I know that Gabreski was an American. I included Gabreski because he was of Polish decent and that he did fly for the Polish Air Force, as Gianlupo mentioned. I must admit though. I do envy you because you've had the opportunity to have met many of these great men! Dan too!
Obie. Gabby flew for the RAF (with AAF authorization), attached to 315 Squadron, an all Polish outfit.
By the way, you can track down surviving pilots thru various websites and the good old White pages.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by WWhiskey
Bong!!!!:aok
i 2nd that!
Richard I. Bong. leading US ace.
and bubbi of course.
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Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
Tell you what, if i was put into the position to kill people, and 80 years later some dip **** looks upto me for my deed,ill call him a retard.
And like i said before,you can justify it anyway you want,the rule is the rule.
you TAKE life,you are murder.
does not matter if the life you took WAS a murderer.
Just because you can justify something will never make it right.
"you killed my brother there for that grants me right to slaughter every member of your family."
understand?
and looking upto someone because they killed more people!?
you are nuts, did you ever think most pilots hoped to holy hell the people they shot down made it out alive?
any soldier or pilot preys for peace, because it is them who suffers most.
for the taking of life.
Period.
Now i do not begrudge these people, im just trying to hit two sides of the coin here.
What is amazing is how these people found a way to live past the war with taking life without enough guilt to blow themselfs away.
"and many did,however unknown to there friends/family/community/country"
Life IS such.
Bu|| $|-|17 your selfs otherwise all you want.
:aok
if you believe that, why are you playing a game like this? dont say its just a game...
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Originally posted by Shifty
(http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/bar1.jpg)
Heinz "Pritzel" Baer
222 Kills Eastern Front, Western Front, and the Med.
109s,190s, and 262s.
Interesting -- he's wearing a US A2 flight jacket.
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Originally posted by Xasthur
Luftwaffe pilots are the ones I look up to the most.
There are so many.... all of the well-known ones of course. For the sake of this thread, I'd have to say Adolf Galland
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/plague_06/galland4.jpg)
Not so much for his victory tally, but for having a cigar lighter installed in his 109 and for using that 109 to ferry champagne to parties :rofl
Xasthur, is that photo signed to you?
Also, do you know what aircraft is in the background? Looks like a tranport of some sort (because of the extra windows), and yet it looks like it has a sliding canopy.
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Originally posted by Brooke
Xasthur, is that photo signed to you?
Also, do you know what aircraft is in the background? Looks like a tranport of some sort (because of the extra windows), and yet it looks like it has a sliding canopy.
I´d say it´s a HE111. The gliding canopy is actually the rear-gunners position
(http://www.hopepilots.org/he111/he111_m18bw_400.jpg);)
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Any excuse to post this picture.
Outside of my marriage and my kids, probably the most memorable event of my life, getting to be a part of the reunion of 41 Squadron at RAF Coltishall in 1985.
Classiest bunch of folks I've ever met and an "ace' every one. The Spit XII pilots of 41 Squadron with some dweeb allowed in the picture.
While I fly 38s in AH, these guys are my heros. I'll forever feel privilaged to have gotten to meet them and to know some of them well. Sadly most are gone now.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Coltishall.jpg)
You are one lucky man Sir.
My role model/hero: Flight Lieutenant William Joseph 'Timber' Woods DFC, RAF (http://user.bahnhof.se/~surfcity/commonwealth_woods.htm)
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Originally posted by VansCrew1
whos the world war 2 ace that you like them most,and dose what he flew play a part on what you fly in Aces High?
I have a couple: Don Gentile and Robin Olds. Rather than fly their rides, I fly whatever I'm most uncomfortable in--when I get to fly that is.
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:lol
AH BBS: <------ owns BaDkaRmA158Th
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Originally posted by Platano
Sounds like he flew in the MA :lol
:rofl :lol :rofl nice one
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Originally posted by Platano
Sounds like he flew in the MA :lol
:rofl :lol :rofl nice one
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Originally posted by Brooke
Xasthur, is that photo signed to you?
Also, do you know what aircraft is in the background? Looks like a tranport of some sort (because of the extra windows), and yet it looks like it has a sliding canopy.
Negative, Brooke. The photo is just the result of a quick google search.
I'm also not sure what the aircraft in the background is. I'm inclined to agree Harpoon, his image looks very close. Perhaps a slightly different model He 111 to the one pictured.
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I look up to Adolf Galland.
He was the man
:aok
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Lieutenant Colonel Eino Luukkanen.
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/WW2History-LuukkanenEnglish.html
-C+
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Robin Olds...His flying style is close to mine. Except he lived through diving after 40+ enemies. :)
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Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
Tell you what, if i was put into the position to kill people, and 80 years later some dip **** looks upto me for my deed,ill call him a retard.
And like i said before,you can justify it anyway you want,the rule is the rule.
you TAKE life,you are murder.
does not matter if the life you took WAS a murderer.
Just because you can justify something will never make it right.
"you killed my brother there for that grants me right to slaughter every member of your family."
understand?
and looking upto someone because they killed more people!?
you are nuts, did you ever think most pilots hoped to holy hell the people they shot down made it out alive?
any soldier or pilot preys for peace, because it is them who suffers most.
for the taking of life.
Period.
Now i do not begrudge these people, im just trying to hit two sides of the coin here.
What is amazing is how these people found a way to live past the war with taking life without enough guilt to blow themselfs away.
"and many did,however unknown to there friends/family/community/country"
Life IS such.
Bu|| $|-|17 your selfs otherwise all you want.
:aok
While portions of that may be true, I tend to think that, because of their age, most folks forget about them, and they probably like to be remembered from time to time, since without their contributions, we'd all be speaking different languages.
Let's put it this way. If you did something 80 years ago, and someone looks up to you for it now, but nobody else even remembers that you were there, would you feel the same way? I'm only 18, but I'd like to think that I'd be happy for the company.
<>
MakoShrk
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An Ace you may want to hear about(Not an fighter pilot, more of a Stuka pilot) who fought World War Two is Hans-Ulrich Rudel.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/32/Hans_Ulrich_Rudel.jpg/190px-Hans_Ulrich_Rudel.jpg)
According to official Luftwaffe figures in total, Rudel flew some 2,530 combat missions (a world record), during which he destroyed almost 2,000 ground targets (among them 519 tanks, 70 assault craft/landing boats, 150 self-propelled guns, 4 armoured trains and 800 other vehicles; as well as 9 planes (2 Il-2's and 7 fighters).In addition, Rudel's input was used during the development of the A-10 ground attack aircraft.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Ulrich_Rudel
Quite an amazing person. I dont really look up to people,(or down).
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
An Ace you may want to hear about(Not an fighter pilot, more of a Stuka pilot) who fought World War Two is Hans-Ulrich Rudel.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/32/Hans_Ulrich_Rudel.jpg/190px-Hans_Ulrich_Rudel.jpg)
According to official Luftwaffe figures in total, Rudel flew some 2,530 combat missions (a world record), during which he destroyed almost 2,000 ground targets (among them 519 tanks, 70 assault craft/landing boats, 150 self-propelled guns, 4 armoured trains and 800 other vehicles; as well as 9 planes (2 Il-2's and 7 fighters).In addition, Rudel's input was used during the development of the A-10 ground attack aircraft.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Ulrich_Rudel
Quite an amazing person. I dont really look up to people,(or down).
Tool Shedder.;)
:aok
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Name: Douglas Bader
Born: 1910
Died: 1982
Place of Birth: London
Information: Douglas Bader was the son of a soldier killed in the first world war. Bader won a scholarship to St Edwards School in Oxford after Oxford he went on to the RAF college in Cranwell, where he captained the Rugby team and was a champion boxer. In 1930 Bader was commissioned as an officer in the RAF but after only 18 months he crashed his plane and as a result he lost both his legs. He was discharged from the RAF and he found work with the Asiatic Petroleum Company. He learnt to find using artificial legs and at the outbreak of World War 2 he was allowed to rejoin the RAF As a member of 222 squadron Bader took part in an operation over Dunkirk and showed his ability by bringing down a Messerschmitt Bf109 and a Heinkel He111. He was promoted and given command of 242 squadron the squadrons first sortie was in the Battle of Britain on the 30th of August 1940 resulted in the shooting down of 12 German planes in just over an hour, Bader claiming two Messerschmitt 110. In the summer of 1941 he obtained 12 kills and he was shot down on the 9th of August 1941 by a Messerschmitt Bf109 near Le Touquet, France. He parachuted out and badly damaged both his artificial legs, he was taken to a French hospital and with the help of a nurse he escaped, he was later recaptured and sent to colditz where he remained for the rest of the war. After the war he left the RAF in 1946 and became the managing director of Shell Aircraft until 1969 when he left to become a member of the Civil Aviation Authority Board. Douglas Bader was knighted in 1976 and he died in 1982.
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Thomas McGuire
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i'd have to go with badder too. just for the fact that he tried to escape colditz by filling his legs with sand from tunels they were trying to build .
Plus he devised the "BIG WING" formation during the BoB
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
An Ace you may want to hear about(Not an fighter pilot, more of a Stuka pilot) who fought World War Two is Hans-Ulrich Rudel.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/32/Hans_Ulrich_Rudel.jpg/190px-Hans_Ulrich_Rudel.jpg)
According to official Luftwaffe figures in total, Rudel flew some 2,530 combat missions (a world record), during which he destroyed almost 2,000 ground targets (among them 519 tanks, 70 assault craft/landing boats, 150 self-propelled guns, 4 armoured trains and 800 other vehicles; as well as 9 planes (2 Il-2's and 7 fighters).In addition, Rudel's input was used during the development of the A-10 ground attack aircraft.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Ulrich_Rudel
Quite an amazing person. I dont really look up to people,(or down).
A very dedicated Nazi however, which takes him off any list of mine.
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he wasn't an ace, but my grandpa got 2 kills in a Hellcat in the PTO. also he would tell us the story of when he landed with a hole in one of his wings big enough to crawl through. so, he's the WW2 "pilot" I most look up to, and the Hellcat is certainly my favorite ride. The way I see it, if the Hellcat wasn't such a tough bird I wouldn't be here today.
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Major General Marion E. Carl
I met him once at the Roseburg VA hospital. I had no idea who he was. He left me with the impression of a very gentle person with a lot of class.
Only when I saw his picture in the paper a few years later, anouncing his murder did I become aware of who he was.
read about him here (http://www.tailhook.org/MCarl.htm)
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Originally posted by Widewing
Gabby lived about 15 minutes from me. I would see him around from time to time. His Plymouth had a vanity plate that said T-BOLT.
Widewing
I didnt know he had a home in Terryville also. Mr. Gabreski lived about 4 blocks from me in Dix Hills, NY until his death. I worked with (while with the FAA) 2 WWII fighter pilots that met with him once a month, LI Fighter Pilots Assn I believe.
He was very involved in the community but was also a private guy around the neighborhood.
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Originally posted by bsdaddict
he wasn't an ace, but my grandpa got 2 kills in a Hellcat in the PTO. also he would tell us the story of when he landed with a hole in one of his wings big enough to crawl through. so, he's the WW2 "pilot" I most look up to, and the Hellcat is certainly my favorite ride. The way I see it, if the Hellcat wasn't such a tough bird I wouldn't be here today.
then i wish the hellcat wasnt such a tough bird.:aok
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Theres three I look up to most. Each in a different air force.
USAAF, Duane Beeson of the 4th FG; 17.333 a2a, 21 total. Would have beaten Rickenbackers record before Gentile (and had many more of them A2A) if he hadn't been downed by flak on one of the "Jackpot" missions in April '44. Had 21 when he went down and his kills before getting hit put him in the temporary lead in the 8th AAF.
He passed away in 1947 enroute to Walter Reed Army Hospital for emergency surgery on a brain tumor.
(http://www.80thfs.homestead.com/bee3.jpg)
Luftwaffe, Georg-Peter Eder, JG51, 26, 1, 2, & 7; 78 victories, 36 of them 4-engined bombers. He was the one I took my old callsign from when I was known as "White13". Flew from beginning to end, scored kills in everything from the Bf-109E to the Me-262. According to legend, he was the one known as "Lucky 13" to USAAF fighter and bomber crews.
(http://dortch.supremeserver5.com/images/GermanSignatures/Peter-Eder.jpeg.JPG)
ARR, Alexandru Serbãnescu, Grupuri 7 and 9 Vanatoare, 47 kills and 8 probables against the Allies. Shot down and killed on 18 August, 1944 by P-51s of the 15th AAF- only 5 days before the armistice with the Allies and on the last hostile encounter between the ARR and the USAAF. A professional soldier and fighter pilot in the pre-war ARR, he was the ranking ace at the time of his death and the commander of Grupul 9 Vanatoare. Its not known for sure who downed him, but the leading candidate is US ace John Voll.
He went into combat that day with a faulty radio (it could transmit but not receive), and led Grupul 9 into a swirling dogfight with twice their number of P-51s and P-38s. At some point he was bounced by a high pair of Mustangs, and by the time Ion Dobran and Trajan Dârjan came to his aid it was too late. His last transmission was a simple "Eu cobor." ("I'm going down.") His body was found in the wreckage later that day, and all aerial opposition to the USAAF raids were suspended after that battle.
(http://www.hobby.ro/roarmy/aviatia/alexandru%20serbanescu/3.jpg)
Linking arms with lt. Ludwig Neubock. ARR and Luftwaffe personnel enjoyed very cordial relations all through their cooperation against the Russians.
(http://www.worldwar2.ro/arr/tomb-serb2.JPG)
The ceremony marking the 60th Anniversary of his death at the National Cemetary. He has a street named after him in Bucharest.
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Pappy Boyington.
-SR-:aok
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Originally posted by Treize69
Theres three I look up to most. Each in a different air force.
USAAF, Duane Beeson of the 4th FG; 17.333 a2a, 21 total. Would have beaten Rickenbackers record before Gentile (and had many more of them A2A) if he hadn't been downed by flak on one of the "Jackpot" missions in April '44. Had 21 when he went down and his kills before getting hit put him in the temporary lead in the 8th AAF.
Beeson was a fine fighter pilot and a natural leader. He's one of my favorites.
Let me toss out a bit of history though......
Neither Beeson or Gentile were close to Rickenbacker when their war ended. Ground kills didn't count towards beating Rickenbacker, only air kills.
On March 15th, Bob Johnson led all 8th AF pilots with 22 kills. By April 13th, he had 25 kills. On May 8th, 1944 he shot down two more for a total of 27. Johnson was the first to beat Rickenbacker (26 kills). He was promptly sent home.
Prior to all of the above, Walter Beckham was the leading ace in the 8th AF with 18 kills when he went down to flak on February 22nd, 1944.
Beckham had 18 kills after 57 sorties (.315 kills per sortie)
Johnson had 27 kills after 91 sorties (.296 kills per sortie)
Gentile had 19.83 kills after 106 sorties (.187 kills per sortie)
Beeson had 17.33 kills after 97 sorties (.179 kills per sortie)
Beeson was one of the 8th's elite, no question. However, there were other pilots scoring faster and achieving much higher scores.
If we were to count ground kills, then Elwyn Righetti (Eager El) would be number one with 7.5 air to air and 27 ground kills. 34.5 combined total was the highest in the ETO/MTO.
My regards,
Widewing
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I should have used the 5 paragraph disclaimer everyone else uses when discussing the 8th AAF pilots.
They did count ground kills the same as a2a ones for the purposes of scoring in the "ace race", but the problem was none of the other numbered AAFs did. In the papers and the official publications at the time (and most books on the 8th to date) they listed combined scores and often didn't differentiate between the two. It was only later in the war and when the other theaters started to complain about the 8th pilots getting all the credit of aces for shooting up parked planes that the problem started.
The practice was started to encourage the pilots to go down after the Luftwaffe instead of wait for them to come up to play, and it worked since the Luftwaffe was essentially destroyed as a coherent force by summer 1944.
Unfortunately many top aces who probably never would have been beaten in the airw ere either killed or captured strafing airedromes- Beeson, Beckham, Goodson, and Gabreski being just a few.
For one questionable decision by some officer flying a desk, 60 years of controversy was spawned and many outstanding leaders lost.
BTW- its interesting to note that shortly before he was himself downed by flak, Beeson commented on Beckhams loss as a stupid waste of a talented pilot.
And Bong had already beaten Rickenbackers record weeks before Gentile did, and all his were in the air. People do tend to forget that one.
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Originally posted by Saxman
I have to say I'm a Boyington fan.
Did he exaggerate his record? Probably, but even the more conservative of estimates place him fairly high among America's aces. For all his faults, no one can say that Boyington wasn't an excellent pilot and fighter.
I'm not saying anyone should make a role model of him, as "Colorful" doesn't begin to describe him, but I think that's part of what makes him such an interesting character.
Yep. Boyington. To do what he did (even exaggerated) while a total alcoholic is amazing. He really was larger than life and such Bravado is rarely seen outside of Hollywood.
-Sik
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Originally posted by Treize69
And Bong had already beaten Rickenbackers record weeks before Gentile did, and all his were in the air. People do tend to forget that one.
Gentile never broke Rickenbacker's record. Not even close, even with ground kills he falls short. In the race to break 26 kills the USAAF counted only air to air kills. Ground kills, although encouraged by the 8th AF and pilots were allowed to to paint victory markers, were never officially counted as victories by the AAF. The 8th AF and the USAAF both recognized that Johnson was the first in the 8th to exceed 26 kills.
By the way, Bong needed nearly twice as many sorties to reach 27 as Johnson did.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
Let me toss out a bit of history though......
On March 15th, Bob Johnson led all 8th AF pilots with 22 kills. By April 13th, he had 25 kills. On May 8th, 1944 he shot down two more for a total of 27. Johnson was the first to beat Rickenbacker (26 kills). He was promptly sent home.
My regards,
Widewing
Not taking away anything from the fine aces of 8th AF but Joe Foss had 26 kills in January 43' flying a Wildcat against some of the best pilots the Japanese had to offer, a full 17 months before Robert Johnson. He was then removed from combat to return home and awarded the CMOH. He returned to the pacific for a short time when malaria forced him back to the US
He gained those 26 kills in a little more than 3 months of combat. Johnson took almost year to get his.
And lets not forget Boyington who downed his 26th, 27th, and 28th kill on Jan 3, 1944. (4 months before Johnson)
And I know about the 4 missing claims form his time with the AVG but his story has been accepted by the majority of authors I have read and thats good enough for me.
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Col. Francis S. "Gabby" Gabrieski :aok I first read a book about him when I was grade school , my friends and I used to ride our bikes around like we were fighter pilots :rofl "shooting "at each other :D I think all we did was HO each other, good times.
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Geez,
I was thinking of Tarrytown NY when I read your post Widewing. Terryville is a few miles away from where I live. Sorry for the confusion.
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Erich Hartmann padded kills lol
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Originally posted by Treize69
For one questionable decision by some officer flying a desk, 60 years of controversy was spawned and many outstanding leaders lost.
I don't think it was a questionable decision. I think it was one of the smartest things anyone came up with in that war.
- oldman (but it would be wrong to do it in AH2!)
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pssst...Hans-Ulrich rudel is awesome. Even though he was a Real Nazi...(only drawback)
but he served on Western front so unless your Polish, Russian, or Finnish, dont worry about if he killed your Grandpa.
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
pssst...Hans-Ulrich rudel is awesome. Even though he was a Real Nazi...(only drawback)
but he served on Western front so unless your Polish, Russian, or Finnish, dont worry about if he killed your Grandpa.
Pretty big drawback wouldn't ya say?
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Originally posted by Joker312
Not taking away anything from the fine aces of 8th AF but Joe Foss had 26 kills in January 43' flying a Wildcat against some of the best pilots the Japanese had to offer, a full 17 months before Robert Johnson. He was then removed from combat to return home and awarded the CMOH. He returned to the pacific for a short time when malaria forced him back to the US
He gained those 26 kills in a little more than 3 months of combat. Johnson took almost year to get his.
And lets not forget Boyington who downed his 26th, 27th, and 28th kill on Jan 3, 1944. (4 months before Johnson)
And I know about the 4 missing claims form his time with the AVG but his story has been accepted by the majority of authors I have read and thats good enough for me.
I disagree, and so does the Marine Corps, the AVG and several historians who have written extensively on Boyington. Bruce Gamble goes into great detail about Boyington's claims with the AVG. He was credited with 2 air to air kills. He tried to get the AVG to allow a share of 15 planes destroyed on the ground during an AVG raid. His share as he claimed was 3.75 kills. The AVG didn't award victories for ground kills, but the Chinese paid out the same rate whether or not they were air to air or killed on the ground.
Boyington's total, with the 2 AVG kills is 24. That is the official record. 2 with the AVG and 22 with the VMF-214.
Read Gamble's books. Bruce is a retired Navy fighter pilot (retired due to contracting MS).
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
pssst...Hans-Ulrich rudel is awesome. Even though he was a Real Nazi...(only drawback) but he served on Western front so unless your Polish, Russian, or Finnish, dont worry about if he killed your Grandpa.
You didn't put too much thought into this statement. First off, Rudel fought on the Eastern Front. Secondly, only a complete prettythang would say "dont worry about it..." about someone killing their Grandfather.
Maybe you would say the same about Mussolini's regime using poisionous gas on Allied troops and civilians in Italy or the Nazis killing millions of Jews. What of the occupation of France? Or the Japanese treatment of POWs. Hopefully, none of your family relatives are in those groups. But if they were, you "wouldn't worry about" I bet.
Obie
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I'm with Hornet .. they are all hero's .. they were there.
Aces or not.
Granted .. I cannot imagine being 20yrs old and earning the right to have a brand new Mustang of my very own to dance in the sky with.
To fly and fight with.
As for the 'murder' B.S. .. fine .. you stand there an get shot.
It *was* either kill or be killed.
They, unlike us, only got one try at it.
They had to be 'right' the first time.
-GE ( I feel I would have been very good or very dead ..IMHO )
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Originally posted by EsX_Raptor
Erich Hartmann padded kills lol
Nah, he was just a cherry-picker.
:lol
Hartmann
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Gerd Barkhorn.
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Alan Deere
http://www.nzfpm.co.nz/article.asp?id=deere
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Originally posted by Widewing
Gentile never broke Rickenbacker's record. Not even close, even with ground kills he falls short.
:confused:
His official total with combined air and ground kills is 27.833. 21.833 in the air (21 individual kills, 1/3 and 1/2) and 6 on the ground. My math isn't the best, but I think thats more than 26.
And personally I've never claimed he was the first, but unfortunately thats whats in the history books. Several pilots (Johnson and Bong among them) were credited with breaking it first, yet he was the one most publicised and the one most often quoted, even in well researched 8th AAF histories, as the first to do it. He just happened to have better publicists, and having a brightly marked plane, being an RAF (actually RCAF) veteran and being touted by the USAAF as part of the "Damon and Pytheas of WWII" team cemented his (erroneous) place in history.
I say, and have always said, that ground kills shouldn't be counted the same. And I stand by my belief that the escort pilots should not have been encouraged to go down after the aerodromes. They lost many more pilots this way than in air-to-air combat, something like 7:1 overall.
IMO, thats what the Tactical Air Forces were supposed to be doing before D-Day, not the escort fighters.
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Johnnie Johnson.
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Originally posted by Treize69
:confused:
His official total with combined air and ground kills is 27.833. 21.833 in the air (21 individual kills, 1/3 and 1/2) and 6 on the ground. My math isn't the best, but I think thats more than 26.
And personally I've never claimed he was the first, but unfortunately thats whats in the history books. Several pilots (Johnson and Bong among them) were credited with breaking it first, yet he was the one most publicised and the one most often quoted, even in well researched 8th AAF histories, as the first to do it. He just happened to have better publicists, and having a brightly marked plane, being an RAF (actually RCAF) veteran and being touted by the USAAF as part of the "Damon and Pytheas of WWII" team cemented his (erroneous) place in history.
From this document:
(http://home.att.net/~ww2aviation/OfficialKills.gif)
We find Gentile's official victory tally....
(http://home.att.net/~ww2aviation/GentileKills.gif)
It's substantially less than 27.833, even if you factor in 2 kills with the Eagle Squadron. Ground kills are not counted.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by VansCrew1
whos the world war 2 ace that you like them most,and dose what he flew play a part on what you fly in Aces High?
Drex.
Nope.
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"Pretty big drawback wouldn't ya say?"
Since you seem to be interested in this particular detail would you care to tell me what kind of nazi Rudel actually was? Maybe he thought that bolchevism was a plague that should be wiped off the earth for good? I'm sure soldiers of any other nation has ever thought the same... Was he pompous? Maybe so but many skilled people are and boy he really was dedicated and skilled. Was he the only nazi in Luftwaffe? Hell no, Hitler affected quite many people in Luftwaffe before his luck ran out. I have heard claims that other Luftwaffe pilots didn't really like him but it escapes me what was the reason: maybe he remained loyal to their leader when others whimpered when s*it hit the fan? Now is that a good quality in a soldier?
Not that I'm a huge fan of Rudel but I think he was a very good soldier who believed in his principles and did anything he could to stop the Russians and surely it is quite easy to put him into some general category labeled "Nazi" without pondering what qualified him as one, and in what way he was actually different from any other dedicated soldier "with a higher mission".
I really don't know for sure. Do you?
-C+
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Originally posted by Charge
Since you seem to be interested in this particular detail would you care to tell me what kind of nazi Rudel actually was?
It would be difficult to be a "good Nazi," don't you think?
Rudel was, by all accounts (including his own), everything you say he was. Remaining loyal to his leader when others whimpered is not always a good thing, and loyalty to a monster like Hitler may be the best single example of where loyalty is grossly misplaced. There were enough people like Rudel around that a whacko like Hitler got - and kept - control. The world lost tens of millions of people dead, not to mention all the other aspects of the disaster, as a direct result of this.
So, yeah, I think being a Nazi was a pretty big drawback when you come to judging someone's worth.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Oldman731
It would be difficult to be a "good Nazi," don't you think?
Rudel was, by all accounts (including his own), everything you say he was. Remaining loyal to his leader when others whimpered is not always a good thing, and loyalty to a monster like Hitler may be the best single example of where loyalty is grossly misplaced. There were enough people like Rudel around that a whacko like Hitler got - and kept - control. The world lost tens of millions of people dead, not to mention all the other aspects of the disaster, as a direct result of this.
So, yeah, I think being a Nazi was a pretty big drawback when you come to judging someone's worth.
- oldman
I agree with what you typed, the horror inflicted on humanity by hitler should be forever condemned as should the horror inflicted by roosevelt in his support of the other monster stalin. the biggest horror of all was in not simply pulling away from the fight between hitler and stalin then pouncing on the victor. we can thank the communist roosevelt administration for an additional fifty years of horror inflicted on humanity at the hands of the russians.
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I think that the fact one was a good or great fighter pilot
was not a result of what leader you did or did not follow.
the german pilots while under hitler seemed to be constricted
but in reality this was not true, they were encouraged to be ruthless
in there tactics U.S. pilots were the most constricted
and had much less time to learn and act on there skills
there were great fighter pilots on all sides regardless of belief
or nationality!
Bong, my favorite was grounded during his time at war and his record does not properly reflect the constraints put upon him until late in his career when he was cut lose to fly were he wanted and by that time targets
were rare
the sad part is the day and way he died.
Fred Thompson for president!!!!!!
WHAT YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE WAS LAND THAT PLANE!!
you dont own it , the taxpayers do.:furious
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"It would be difficult to be a "good Nazi," don't you think?"
What ever cartoonish stereotype you want to consider him to fit.
If you compare him to e.g. Joachim Peiper you maybe start to realize what I mean.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_Peiper
Rudel was an exceptional pilot and soldier what ever his political attitude was and I can understand if somebody may look up to his achievements and commitment as such without considering his character -and not many even know about his political attitude.
I admit that my other brow rose when I saw Rudel in this list but it didn't cross my mind to start commenting on the matter. :p
-C+
PS. "we can thank the communist roosevelt administration for an additional fifty years of horror inflicted on humanity at the hands of the russians."
Should we call them "Rosies"? Another handy label. :D
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Anton “Toni” Hackl
http://www.luftwaffe.cz/hackl.html
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" PAPPY "... No one could touch him... and most of all he didn't take anyone's Flak. He wanted a Squadron... so he made one, and that my fella's is what ya call a leader...........
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Richard Bong not only because i'm a 38 dweeb but because he had .......gasp 40 kills.....:O That being said most of those German pilots were downright amazing to keep flying like they did and never get sent home and rack up those kills, the odds are against you there. I kinda also like Adolph Galland because he seemed not to be a flag toting nazi, he was always fighting with Hitler because he was a twit, (in several interviews he has called Hitler a small minded idiot,smart guy) and i also like his chivalry. He was known that after Huri pilot Richard Bader was shot down he lost his artificial legs, Adolf Galland heard this and allowed the RAF to drop him some new ones. The two men remained friends and struck up a relationship. He was known to be a gentleman (as much as you can be in war mind you) and was well respected by both sides. That being said i look up to know one, that's human anyway, maybe God and Jesus that's it.
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Originally posted by Charge
Rudel was an exceptional pilot and soldier what ever his political attitude was and I can understand if somebody may look up to his achievements and commitment as such without considering his character -and not many even know about his political attitude.
Heh. Peiper was an exceptional panzer commander. Where does that leave us?
- oldman
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Heh. Peiper was an exceptional panzer commander. Where does that leave us?
- oldman
He had orders from above him, and there is a grey area in that. That is a fact. Katyn makes Malmedy look like a picnic. If we're comparing "massacres" that is.
Furthermore, 18 men of the 394th I & R Platoon held off Pieper's SS troops and armor for a while. When finally captured after ammunition ran out they met Pieper. Pieper didn't kill them, he actually got on one his underlings for trying to loot them.
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Honor is among men...not Nations.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
He had orders from above him, and there is a grey area in that. That is a fact. Katyn makes Malmedy look like a picnic. If we're comparing "massacres" that is.
[/b]
Oh, ah, comparing massacres, is it? I'll up your Katyn with a Treblinka, how's that?
Furthermore, 18 men of the 394th I & R Platoon held off Pieper's SS troops and armor for a while. When finally captured after ammunition ran out they met Pieper. Pieper didn't kill them, he actually got on one his underlings for trying to loot them.
...um...you aren't seriously trying to make Peiper out to be an OK guy.
Are you?
- oldman
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Originally posted by Charge
"Pretty big drawback wouldn't ya say?"
Since you seem to be interested in this particular detail would you care to tell me what kind of nazi Rudel actually was? Maybe he thought that bolchevism was a plague that should be wiped off the earth for good? I'm sure soldiers of any other nation has ever thought the same... Was he pompous? Maybe so but many skilled people are and boy he really was dedicated and skilled. Was he the only nazi in Luftwaffe? Hell no, Hitler affected quite many people in Luftwaffe before his luck ran out. I have heard claims that other Luftwaffe pilots didn't really like him but it escapes me what was the reason: maybe he remained loyal to their leader when others whimpered when s*it hit the fan? Now is that a good quality in a soldier?
Not that I'm a huge fan of Rudel but I think he was a very good soldier who believed in his principles and did anything he could to stop the Russians and surely it is quite easy to put him into some general category labeled "Nazi" without pondering what qualified him as one, and in what way he was actually different from any other dedicated soldier "with a higher mission".
I really don't know for sure. Do you?
-C+
All accounts seem to place him in the same category as Otto Skorzeny in terms of the die hard Nazi postwar as well. Seems like he, like many Nazi's ended up living in South America.
I don't lump all LW pilots with Rudel btw. Folks like Werner Moelders at least began to question the cause they were fighting for. There is some suggestion that Mersielles began to doubt the cause as well after some experiences in Italy.
Blind faith to any cause is not a good thing. Being a good soldier doesn't mean you lose your right to think for yourself.
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charge i disagree with you and believe that any nazi is a bad nazi
mine would be Major George Preddy (352nd Fighter Group, Eighth Air Force)who was credited with 23.83 air to air kills in the mustang and 26.83 total air to air kills, making him the #1 p51 ace of the war which makes him my super idol , and its can appreciate that his brother was also a high scoring ace in ww2.and cripes o mighty:aok
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_E._Preddy%2C_Jr.
he downed several aircraft mostly 109s and two 190s and i blieve 3 ju88s
until some genious american ground gunner shot him down
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"Heh. Peiper was an exceptional panzer commander. Where does that leave us?"
Peiper was a brilliant commander but also a bloody murderer as I believe he had no orders forcing him to do those horrible things, they were his own decisions. Maybe Rudel would have done the same if he was in WaffenSS, we'll never know, but I don't think he was that kind of person after all.
"Blind faith to any cause is not a good thing. Being a good soldier doesn't mean you lose your right to think for yourself."
I agree and I think that although Rudel was an exceptional pilot and soldier, to me it seems he was also a bit... well, simple.
"charge i disagree with you and believe that any nazi is a bad nazi"
Don't put that kind of things into my mouth, dude. I never said that there were "good nazis" but there is a big difference between Rudel and Peiper -at least a few hundred civilians and POWs, that is.
-C+
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Naturally enough being Irish it has to be Brendan 'Paddy' Finucane. But Irish or not he deserves to be up there with the greats. He ended the war second only to Johnny Johnson as the top scoring RAF aces. But Johnny Johnson survived the war, Finucane died in 1942 with 32 kills and the rank of Wing Comander at the age of 21. In the end it was ground fire that got him on one of those stupid 'Ramrod' raids that the RAF wasted their pilots lives on.
He even reputedly shot down the great Galland.
(http://www.century-of-flight.net/new%20site/images24/11.jpg)
He rates alongside Pattle as one of the great unsung heroes of the war. At the time though Finucance was a celebrity in Britain. They even sold toy spitfires painted in his markings. Yet I can only find the same two or three pictures of him anywhere. Strange.
He was virtually unknown in Ireland though as mention of the war was heavily censored in the press.
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Gregory Hollenbeck---- for thoes of you who know your history you will know this WWII ace.
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Originally posted by Brooke
Interesting -- he's wearing a US A2 flight jacket.
Thought that jacket looked familiar! :)
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(http://www.homeofheroes.com/photos/6_ww2/bong_a.jpg)
(http://www.aviationhalloffamewisconsin.com/images/bong_p38.jpg)
Born: 09/24/1920
Died: 08/06/1945
Inducted:10/18/1987
Born and raised in Poplar, Wisconsin, Richard Ira Bong was destined to have a short but illustrious career as a military aviator. In just under two years, Major Bong had downed 40 enemy aircraft, thereby distinguishing himself as America's top fighter ace of World War II.
Bong entered the Army Air Corps in 1941 already in possession of his private pilot's certificate. In 1942 he earned his second lieutenant's wings at Luke Air Force Base, Arizona.
Early in 1943 Bong saw his first combat and in a little over two weeks had qualified as an ace. By June, 1943 he had earned the Distinguished Flying Cross and was promoted to Captain in August, 1943. Bong's notoriety increased when, in April,1944, he recorded his 27th victory, surpassing Captain Eddie Rickenbacker's World War I record of 26 victories. Along with the fame came the promotion to Major.
After more than 500 combat hours and 40 confirmed kills Bong was sent back to the United States. Among the many military awards Bong accumulated was the Congressional Medal of Honor and the Australian Distinguished Flying Cross.
Back in the states Bong was assigned as a test pilot to the Army Technical Service Command. On August 6, 1945 Major Richard Bong was assigned Lockheed P-80, tail number 44-85048, for a routine acceptance flight. Following preflight inspection and a normal engine start, pilot Bong taxied for departure. Receiving takeoff clearance at 1430 local, the aircraft moved into takeoff position on runway 15. Seconds later Bong pushed the throttle up beginning his takeoff roll. Witnesses recall seeing puffs of black smoke as the plane lifted into the air and climbed to a reported altitude of between 300 and 400 feet. The aircraft began to roll to the right, leveled and the canopy came off. The aircraft began a descent as the engine, according to an eye witness, failed. The aircraft then pitched over into a steep descent. The aircraft hit the ground in a steep nose-down attitude with a terrific impact followed immediately by a fuel explosion. Major Richard Ira Bong, America's Ace of Aces, was dead.
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Ok...one of my favorite aces was Ivan Kozhedub, from the USSR!
URRA:)
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Flight Sgt. Wilkinson, RAF Hurricane pilot, BoB.
My 6th grade teacher in 1975.
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I think that they are all heros, but the ones I look up to the most in no particular order are Thomas Blackburn, Claire Chenault, George Preddy, Jimmy Doolittle, Douglas Bader, and Don Gentile.
On a totaly differant subject.
BaDkaRmA158Th you are a flipping idiot. You don't deserve the freedoms that these men fought, and some of them died for.
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I have a few I would add to the list
Hannes Trautloft former JG54 commander then member of the Bundesluftwaffe
Walter Nowotny now how he was missed ? an exceptional pilot
Helmut Lipfert 203 aerial victories
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Originally posted by Saxman
I have to say I'm a Boyington fan.
Did he exaggerate his record? Probably, but even the more conservative of estimates place him fairly high among America's aces. For all his faults, no one can say that Boyington wasn't an excellent pilot and fighter.
I'm not saying anyone should make a role model of him, as "Colorful" doesn't begin to describe him, but I think that's part of what makes him such an interesting character.
My great uncle flew with Boyington during his days as the ultimate Marine pilot. From what I had asked and he divulged he was a good pilot. He survived a war that many didnt. He survived flying a P-40 against the Japenese Airforce. Now that is an accomplishment. He was a drinker, brawler, and bad boy who knew how to work the military system. He ws a decent PR man. Was he the best in the Elite. NO. but who cares.
My grandfather survived the war with aerial kills, and many ground kills. He helped cripple the movement of supplies throught out Germany and Italy by logging more than 20 train kills and several ground plane kills. He was shot down 3 times. I salute all allied pilots in there campaign. I will not salute Axis pilots due to their involvement in a struggle to support Facism. Those pilots above were good but on the wrong side.
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(http://www.leisuregalleries.com/aagabreskicolor.jpg)
Francis Gabreski top Jug Ace!!! I usually fly Jugs. Who says H2H pilots only fly Spit16s, Tempests and La7s.
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wow i forgot i even started this post.
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Richard I. Bong 40 kills
Thomas McGuire 38 kills
Charles MacDonald 27 kills
Gerald R. Johnson 22 kills
Neel Kearby 22 kills
Jay T. Robbins 22 kills
Robert Westbrook 20 kills
Thomas J. Lynch 20 kills
Bill Harris 16 kills
Edward "Porky" Cragg 15 kills
Cyril F. Homer 15 kills
Daniel T. Roberts Jr. 14 kills
Cotesworth B. Head Jr. 12 kills
Kenneth G. Ladd 12 kills
James A. Watkins 12 kills
Michael Brezas 12 kills
William J. Sloan 12 kills
William Leverette 12 kills
Francis J. Lent 11 kills
John S. Loisel 11 kills
John W. Mitchell 11 kills
Murray "Jim" Shubin 11 kills
Cornelius Smith 11 kills
Ken Sparks 11 kills
William Giroux 10 kills
Paul Stanch 10 kills
Elliot Summer 10 kills
Fredric Champlin 9 kills
Jack Ilfrey 7.5 kills
Rex Barber 5 kills
Robin Olds 5 kills
Sorry for the list but it's not just one "ace" I admire, there's a lot of them I admire. I'm sure it doesn't take a genius to figure out what plane they flew. I know I also left many names off the list, those are just the ones that come to mind.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I'm sure it doesn't take a genius to figure out what plane they flew.
Well, Jerry Johnson and Neel Kearby flew 47s, of course. I wondered how come you left Gabreski and Robert Johnson out?
- oldman
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The driver of Ding Hao (http://www.homeofheroes.com/wings/part2/14_howard.html) should surely be mentioned.
Best Regards.
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Douglas Bader- "Reach for the Sky" is a great read.
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I never thought about what ace I admire. The one that flies spits I guess :lol .
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Originally posted by Simaril
Not an ace...but Lt. Gen. James Stewart is probably one of my great heroes for his consistent sense of duty, honor, and integrity.
Had a long family tradition of military service to his county, and tried repeatedly to get into the Army Air Corps -- starting over a year before Pearl. Finally had to sneak past the weight requirement to enlist, on his 3rd try. His pay dropped from $72,000 per year to $260 per year. Despite his Hollywood fame, the only time he pulled strings was to make sure he was assigned to combat status rather than serving as a stateside B-17 pilot instructor (his initial assignment). Contrast that with Bob Hope, whose rear area entertainment got way more attention, and who made a joke out of not enlisting -- "Hey, that's dangerous! I might get hurt! (Nothing against Bob Hope, an icon in his own right. Just meaning to contrast the choices available to Stewart.)
He served as operations officer of the 445th bomb group, and then its commander. He was moved to the new 453rd BG to help iron out some difficulties there, and later rose to be chief of staff for the entire wing. He flew 20 combat missions, in time spans that were simply the most lethal for pilots in US history: statistically speaking, in those days you shouldnt have been able to make it to the 25 mission tour goal.
He was awarded The DFC, the Croix de Guerre, and 7 air medals. He remained active in the reserves and continued to serve in executive roles in the Air Force until mandatory retirement age.
But best of all, he never capitalized on his war record. He put clauses in post war movie contracts prohibiting studios from even mentioning it. He didnt talk much about his service, and redirected attention to those who served without fame -- and those who didnt make it home.
He honestly felt he only did his duty. That's the kind of integrity and honor that's worth idolizing.
As an actor and a WWII enthusiast, he is my favorite as well. I loved his movies, and when I found out about his service, it only made him more of a hero in my eyes!
James Stewart!
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Can it be a WWI ace? If so, Eddie Rickenbacker.
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David McCampbell, 34 confirmed victories. there is a story about him sending his squadron out during the mariana's turkey shoot. while his squadron was away from the ship, the ship radar detected a large group of enemy A/C comign in. so McCampbell and his wingman order thier fighters to be prepared. after they finished gettign thier gear on and ran out thier planes, they arived to find thier planes still being fueled up. he straped himself in and asked the sailor, 'is the ammo full?" "yes, sir" relpied the sailor. "then put the cap on the tank and get me going."
he went up that day and scored 9 aerial victories and his wingman 6, thwarting the bombers coming in to attack his carrier group. when he arrived back at his carrier the line up was full and he was sent ot another carrier to pick up fuel. the second one denied him, for the same reason, as did the 3rd one too. finaly a 4th carrier permitted him to land and when he safely made it on deck and engine shut down, it was discovered he only had 10 gallons of fuel left. talk about cutting it close!
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Without reservation or hesitation, my all time favorite WWII Ace Fighter Pilot is...
Senior Lieutenant Lilya Vladimirovna Litvyak, known as The White Rose of Stalingrad.
So named by the Luftwaffe pilots she flew against in combat during WWII.
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff232/Tigeress_ah/LeRosedeStalingrad.jpg)
Lilya's rides were the La-5, Yak-1, and Yak-1b (and people wonder why I have often been seen flying in an La-5 or La-7, and sometimes a Yak). Her first three kills were a Bf109 and two Ju-88s while flying an La-5 during the last half of September 1942.
She is credited with shooting down 12 German planes. The all-male Luftwaffe pilots she flew against were so outraged by her they planned and staged a gang-bang to end her life. They could not handle being shot down by a woman, and a Jewish woman at that.
It required all eight of the German men in Bf109s working together to finally bring her down. They knew it was her by the white lily painted on her Yak-1b; they planned the coordinated attack on her ahead of time; then specifically set out on a misson to kill her.
She was buried where she came to ground ...her grave was placed beneath the wing of her crashed Yak-1b fighter.
Lt. Litvyak had completed 168 missions, and had 3 shared victories in addition to her personal twelve. She was 22 years old when she died.
Had she been an American pilot with her service record, she would have received, if nothing else, three Purple Hearts.
She recieved the Order of the Red Banner in 1943 and, long after her death, she received the equivilant of the US Congressional Medal of Honor... by virtue of being posthumously conferred with the title of
Hero of the Soviet Union by Premier Mikhail Gorbachov on May 5, 1990.
A more detailed accounting of Lilya's story...
Lilya was born in Moscow in August 18, 1921. Lilya was her nickname, as her actual name was Lidiya. She was regarded by all as a "strikingly beautiful woman", which helped earn her public appreciation and, added to her success as a fighter pilot, served the propaganda ministry well.
She began her service in the all-woman 586th IAP, where she flew mostly defense missions from January to August 1942. In August she was posted to "male" squadrons because of her merits. The first was the 286th Fighter Division (IAD), then to the 437 IAP, which had recently been equipped with the new Lavochkin La-5. With this unit she got her first 2 air victories in September 13, 1943. She was sent as an attachment to the female flight of the 287 IAD, and served briefly in the 9th Guards IAP.
In the end of January, 1943, she was transferred to the 296th along with 2 other skilled women fighter pilots. On February 17, 1943, she was awarded the Order of the Red Banner. Two days later she was promoted to Junior Lieutenant and soon after to Senior Lieutenant.
On each side of her YaK-1's cockpit she painted a white lily, often confused for a rose—hence the nickname. She was so fond of flowers, that she often picked wildflowers and carried them aloft on her missions. According to her mechanic, Inna Pasportnikova, she had a postcard with yellow roses in her instrument panel. The white rose on the fuselage became famous among the Germans, who knew better than to try to dogfight the familiar YaK-1, and usually tried to make good their escape before Litvyak got too close.
Litvyak was injured 3 times during her combat tour. All three injuries occured during the Spring and Summer of 1943, a period of intense combat activity. The first time was on March 15, the same day that she shot down a Junkers Ju-88 bomber, but got hit by their escorting Me-109s (she continued to fly and bagged another Ju-88!). She managed to land at her base, and passed out and she remained in a hospital until May.
When she came back, the 296th IAP had been renamed the 73 Guards IAP for their exploits in battle. She was wounded again in combat in July 16 and 18 (the death-date of her comrade Katya Budanova). Both times she landed in German-ocuppied territory, but got back to base on foot the first time, and was rescued by another fighter pilot who landed after her the second.
She was repeatedly successful in flying missions, although was finally killed in action over Orel, while escorting a unit of Shturmoviks returning from an attack in August 1, 1943. Because of her notoriety amongst the Germans, eight Messerschmitt Me-109's concentrated solely on Lilya's YaK-1, and it took all eight of them to finally shoot down the "White Rose of Stalingrad". Her body and aircraft were not found during the war, but a marble monument, with 12 gold stars—one for each enemy plane that she had shot down—was erected in her memory in Krasy Luch, in the Donetsk region. Litvyak had completed 168 missions, and had 3 shared victories in addition to her personal twelve. She was 22 years old when she died.
Note: Some sources claim that she died in September the 1st, and not August. As with most details from the Great Patriotic War, 46 years of censorship has made it hard to be sure about anything.
Her remains were found at last in 1979, buried under her fallen YaK-1's wing, near the village of Dmitriyevka. Ten years later her body was recovered for an official burial; and in May 5, 1990 she was posthumously conferred the title of Hero of the Soviet Union by then Premier Mikhail Gorbachov.
To view some of her pictures and a list of her kills, see... The Rose of Stalingrad (http://pratt.edu/~rsilva/litvyak.htm)
TIGERESS
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"I would rather be shot ten thousand times before i shoot someone else and watch the life drain from there eyes.
My life is nothing "????????
Me?
I've unilaterally taken personal and
unapologetic responsibility for my own safety, and have equipped and trained
myself accordingly!"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
JOHN TRULUCK
Only Ace I've known
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i18/gopher0/Scan1.jpg):huh
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I know i posted already but i gotta say
ERICH HARTMANN
over 1400 combat sorties 352 killz he was the greatest. hands down.
now on to another point people in here are talking about all these massacres what about the "trail of tears" the american government has done its own share of massacres.
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Originally posted by Old Sport
The driver of Ding Hao (http://www.homeofheroes.com/wings/part2/14_howard.html) should surely be mentioned.
Best Regards.
Thank you for posting that, Old Sport!
I didn't know about Major James Howard.
Both Japanese and German kills..
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff232/Tigeress_ah/14_ding_hao.jpg)
What a great name for his plane... Ding Hao (The Best).
to you Major James Howard and your plane... Ding Hao
TIGERESS
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David Lee "TEX" Hill(http://[IMG]http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/wsf254/TeX.jpg)[/IMG]
18 1/2 Kills and put up one hec of a fight at the Salween gorge. For which he was awarded the DSC. I got to speak to him the other day and he told me that while he was in China, General Stilwell had plans of turning a T-6(Bc-1) into an observation plane for the General. He made me laugh when he said that he told the General "Sir..are boys see the radial engine on that thing and they are gonna shoot you down!!!" Tex said that the Ge renal then changed his mind.
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Originally posted by Harp00n
(http://www.airpower.at/news03/0813_luftkrieg_ostmark/thalerhof_1941-marseille.jpg)
Hans-Joachim Marseille
"Star of Africa"
17 confirmed air-to-air kills in one day (Sept. 1st 1942) ...incredible
Have to agree with this one. Almost universally recognized as the most talented German pilot. This guy was the equivalent of Fester, BK, Levi, et al. only in real life. His skills were far greater than any that came before or after him on the German side, including Hartman. I am American, and have a natural tendancy to favor the US Aces, but I have to hand it to this guy. He was special. His death was a National tragedy.
See this link (http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/hanstate.html)
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Originally posted by TracerX
Have to agree with this one. Almost universally recognized as the most talented German pilot. This guy was the equivalent of Fester, BK, Levi, et al. only in real life. His skills were far greater than any that came before or after him on the German side, including Hartman. I am American, and have a natural tendancy to favor the US Aces, but I have to hand it to this guy. He was special. His death was a National tragedy.
See this link (http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/hanstate.html)
Only thing I wonder about is how he'd have done in ETO against roughly equal aircraft and pilots who weren't flying ground attack.
101 of his kills are against P40s many of them early models of the RAF as well as 30 Hurricane Is. Even the Spit Vs he'd have flown against were flying with the large Vokes filter which really reduced speed and were not close to his 109F in performance. He could really control the fight.
Not saying he wasn't a great pilot, clearly he was, I just am hard pressed to see him in the same category as guys like Priller, Glunz etc who fought their entire careers against the best of the Allies out of England. I think they were in a far more difficult situation in terms of the aircraft they faced, the numbers, quality and experience of the Allied pilots, the circumstances etc.
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Your right that he might not have survived even if his accident never occured. It is a slim chance in such a deadly environment. Only the very lucky did survive to tell their stories. Marseille had skills however that the others did not. He had the kind of fighting skills that are not found very often in one person. He was the complete package. That is why I think he was the best.
Others had experience and survived. Marseille was skilled and deadly. He was the ace of aces in his time.
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Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
Snip~
And like i said before,you can justify it anyway you want,the rule is the rule.
you TAKE life,you are murder.
does not matter if the life you took WAS a murderer.
~Snip
So if someone is trying to kill me or my friends or family, if I kill him first, is that murder or justifiable homicide?
I'm not trying to glorify war (look at my sig line) which brings me back to topic.
My choice is Saburo Sakai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saburo_Sakai).
In this video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-446099415038383164) it becomes clear that Pug Sutherland should have shot down Saburo Sakai that day.
When I first started in AcesHi, I first tried flying the Zero but found it just too limiting before trying other aircraft. Plus the Zero's imitation of a Zippo lighter when hit in the fuel tanks, I don't like of it (even though it's accurate damage modeling).
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Saburo Sakai..
(http://www.leisuregalleries.com/ph5.jpg)
and Adriano Visconti
(http://digilander.libero.it/dreamswings/ImmaginiInDetail/Mc205Visc26.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adriano_Visconti
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Originally posted by SaburoS
My choice is Saburo Sakai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saburo_Sakai).
In this video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-446099415038383164) it becomes clear that Pug Sutherland should have shot down Saburo Sakai that day.
I have to admit that Saburo Sakai is truly a legend, and proved that he was a great man even after the war. To have had the success he had in the A6M is extraordinary.
I still think that Hans Joachim Marseille (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2gHQGqKnGg) was the most deadly skilled fighter pilot durring WW2. His short history and unfortunate ending is documented in the link above. He scored all his kills in North Africa before September 30, 1942. No one has come close to matching that pace in aerial combat, not even the great Eric Hartmann.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Only thing I wonder about is how he'd have done in ETO against roughly equal aircraft and pilots who weren't flying ground attack.
101 of his kills are against P40s many of them early models of the RAF as well as 30 Hurricane Is. Even the Spit Vs he'd have flown against were flying with the large Vokes filter which really reduced speed and were not close to his 109F in performance. He could really control the fight.
The material advantage the Allies had in aircraft grew the entire time he was in Africa. By the end, the numerical advantages the Allies had was more than enough to offset the performance advantages of the 109F. Besides, his methods of fighting was not simply Boom and Zoom tactics. He was decisive in his engagements, and his style was clearly different from his contemporaries such that they could recognize him in a fight without the benefit of markings on his plane. He might not have lived through the war as you say, but I doubt that there was anyone more deadly than he was in a fighter plane.
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Originally posted by VansCrew1
whos the world war 2 ace that you like them most,and dose what he flew play a part on what you fly in Aces High?
My Grand Dad. P-47 pilot 1942-1944. Superior JUG pilot. Knew how to fight the pig. Remember hearing how he hated to face the 109. Known for bringing in more holes in the plane than ammo left in the JUG. Recorded many train kills during last push from the Germans. I wish I knew about this game when he was alive. I would love to have him tell his story. I would stay up into the wee hours listening to his stories. I have a journal that he kept and some notes I have.
Great Uncle B-24 commander 20 missions 3 planes shot from him. Lost 10 crewmembers. Limped a hurt bird 300 miles with 1 and 4 shot out with little aileron control.
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Robin Olds
http://www.af.mil/history/person.asp?dec=&pid=123006521
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All the unsung gunners,who flew without control of A/C.
May they rest in peace....
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Josef Priller also deserves a solid mention.
101 kills on the Western front and went on to manage a brewery.
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/plague_06/priller4.jpg)
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I am looking up to the foreign volunteers, who came to Finland to help to stem the barbaric assault of the Soviet Union during the "Winter War", and who gave the ultimate sacrifice, for example:
The Danish pilots:
Lt. (Count) Erhard K. J. Frijs, KIA on 19.2.1940.
Lt. C. Knut Kalmberg, KIA on 13.2.1940
Lt. C. Mogens H. Kristensen, KIA on 29.2.1940
Lt. Frits Rasmussen, KIA on 2.2.1940
Swedish:
Ensign John Magnus Sjökvist
Lt. Sten Åke Hildinger
Lt. Anders Robert Zachau.
Italian:
S.Sgt Diego Manzocchi, KIA 11.3.40.
Links:
http://www.geocities.com/finnmilpge/fmp_forpilots.html
http://www.sci.fi/~fta/f19-1.htm
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Hans-Joachim Marseille
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Originally posted by 33Vortex
Hans-Joachim Marseille
why?
he never ran to ack and at least on one ocassion dove into a swarm of P40s alone in real life.
he had his wingman fly above the fight and relay via radio the relative positions of approaching P40s and not actually be in the fight.
all I see you do is dive two or better v one. when your pals get whacked then you run to ack and this is a game.
by me observing your style of game play first hand it seems to me that there would be more admiration of the late war pony horders and not hajo.
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Ilmari 'Illu' Juutilainen
(http://www.warezhouze.1g.fi/Here/AH/pics/illu-02s.jpg)
(sorry, didn't find above picture without texts)
http://www.sci.fi/~fta/finace01.htm
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Originally posted by storch
why?
he never ran to ack and at least on one ocassion dove into a swarm of P40s alone in real life.
he had his wingman fly above the fight and relay via radio the relative positions of approaching P40s and not actually be in the fight.
all I see you do is dive two or better v one. when your pals get whacked then you run to ack and this is a game.
by me observing your style of game play first hand it seems to me that there would be more admiration of the late war pony horders and not hajo.
Sorry you miss the point. I'm way too busy today to take time reading the boards, but I promise to get back to you on this at a later time.
Have a good day.
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(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Walter_Nowotny.JPG)
World War II
Walter "Nowi" Nowotny (December 7, 1920 – November 8, 1944) was an Austrian-born German fighter ace of World War II with 258 confirmed victories in 442 missions, 255 victories over Russian pilots
Flying a Messerschmitt Bf 109 he shot down his first two enemy aircraft (both Polikarpov I-153 biplanes) over Saaremaa on July 19, 1941, and was shot down the same day by Alexandr Avdeev and spent three days in a dinghy in the Gulf of Riga. At year's end he was credited with ten victories.
In 1942, Nowotny continued to increase his successes, shooting down five aircraft on a single day in July and seven on 2 August. He was shot down again on 11 August and sustained moderate injuries in a crash-landing. In September, he was awarded the Ritterkreuz, having achieved 56 victories. He was made Staffelkapitän of 1./JG 54 on 25 October.
In January 1943, JG 54 started converting to the Focke-Wulf 190 fighter. With the new aircraft "Nowi" scored at an unprecedented rate, often averaging more than two planes a day for weeks on end. He scored his 75th victory in March and his 100th in June — shooting down forty-one aircraft that month. In August, he was promoted to Oberleutnant, made Gruppenkommandeur of I./JG 54, and shot down forty-nine aircraft. On 1 September, he scored ten victories in two sorties. He claimed his 200th victory on 8 September and had Eichenlaub added to his Knight's Cross, was promoted to Hauptmann and had the Schwerter added a few weeks later.
On 14 October 1943, Nowotny became the first pilot ever to reach 250 victories, and his Knight's Cross was augmented with diamonds (the Brillanten). He was the eighth recipient of the Knight's Cross with Oakleaves, Swords, and Diamonds, and was withdrawn from combat and given a long series of propaganda activities. He had shot down 255 enemy aircraft: 196 in 1943 alone.
Death
Nowotny was Geschwaderkommodore of JG 101, a training unit, from April 1944. In September 1944, he was made commander of the specialist unit dubbed Kommando Nowotny, flying the new Messerschmitt Me 262 out of airfields near Osnabrück. The unit had not only the enemy to contend with, they also had to work through the "teething" phase of the Me 262 and also develop the tactics appropriate for a Jet unit. Nowotny had achieved three victories in his temperamental aircraft (two B-24s and a P-51) before he was killed in a crash following his Me 262 being shot down by USAAF Capt. Ernest Fiebelkorn (20th Fighter Group) and 1st Lt. Edward "Buddy" Haydon (357th Fighter Group) east of Hesepe. His Me 262 A-1a (W.Nr. 110 400) “White 8” was seen to dive vertically out of the clouds and crash at Epe, 2.5 kilometres east of Hesepe
Walter Nowotny was buried at the Zentralfriedhof in Vienna in a grave of honor sponsored by the city of Vienna. After a long public debate, provoked by the Austrian Green Party, who declared Nowotny as a killer, the Vienna Landtag passed a resolution supported by Social Democrats and Greens to remove the status of honor in 2004, which means that only the designation grave of honor has been withdrawn and the maintenance is no more due to the municipality, yet neither his tombstone nor his remains have been relocated. But this only, for his grave is a war grave and may not be removed by law. The Greens wanted to have him exhumed by all means
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Originally posted by Shiryu
(http://digilander.libero.it/dreamswings/ImmaginiInDetail/Mc205Visc26.jpg)
Tom Sellek?
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http://www.acepilots.com/usn_blackburn.html
http://www.acepilots.com/usn_aces2.html
http://members.tripod.com/~ArloG/vf-17pictures-3.html
VF-17. And not just the aces. :D
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John R. Alison.
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Only the live ones..the rest I look down to.
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Ouch. Why would you say that?
Just because one guy dies doesn't mean he's cowardly. They were boys doing their jobs.
In effect everyone pretty much killed the other guy.
So you'll look up to the guys who killed themselves to kill others?
We'll idolize these aces for being brave regardless of what they did, since courage is what they showed. But what's courage? Does it always involve death?
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I think FiLtH was alluding to paying respects to the grave and it's respective altitude to him. I think I know him well enough to give that BOTD. :)
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Bingo Arlo
Gotta be careful how I word stuff I guess :)
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Originally posted by Simaril
Not an ace...but Lt. Gen. James Stewart is probably one of my great heroes for his consistent sense of duty, honor, and integrity.
Had a long family tradition of military service to his county, and tried repeatedly to get into the Army Air Corps -- starting over a year before Pearl. Finally had to sneak past the weight requirement to enlist, on his 3rd try. His pay dropped from $72,000 per year to $260 per year. Despite his Hollywood fame, the only time he pulled strings was to make sure he was assigned to combat status rather than serving as a stateside B-17 pilot instructor (his initial assignment). Contrast that with Bob Hope, whose rear area entertainment got way more attention, and who made a joke out of not enlisting -- "Hey, that's dangerous! I might get hurt! (Nothing against Bob Hope, an icon in his own right. Just meaning to contrast the choices available to Stewart.)
He served as operations officer of the 445th bomb group, and then its commander. He was moved to the new 453rd BG to help iron out some difficulties there, and later rose to be chief of staff for the entire wing. He flew 20 combat missions, in time spans that were simply the most lethal for pilots in US history: statistically speaking, in those days you shouldnt have been able to make it to the 25 mission tour goal.
He was awarded The DFC, the Croix de Guerre, and 7 air medals. He remained active in the reserves and continued to serve in executive roles in the Air Force until mandatory retirement age.
But best of all, he never capitalized on his war record. He put clauses in post war movie contracts prohibiting studios from even mentioning it. He didnt talk much about his service, and redirected attention to those who served without fame -- and those who didnt make it home.
He honestly felt he only did his duty. That's the kind of integrity and honor that's worth idolizing.
funny how times change.....stewart did his duty...along with other famous people back then......but look at them now....all finding excuses to not do it........sad.....
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douglas bader......22 kills in his hurricane...., with both legs amputated. not only this, but he never used crutches or a walking stick to re-learn to walk.
he suffered a collision with a messerschmidt, and was captured, and a pow till the end of the war......he also led the victory fly over of london when the war was over...........
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all of them
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Originally posted by Larry
As I said before Lang is my faverit, but if it as american Richard Ira Bong is it.
or Tommy McGuire:aok
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Originally posted by Stampf
Those I look the most toward wouldn't be easily recognizable by some, except you few who know me well but I will go with:
Otto Kittel. Eastern Front, 267 confirmed victories. He made it all the way to Feb. of '45. Somewhere around the 16th of that month he took on a group of (8) IL2's. His FW190 A8 took fire, burst into flames and he was gone.
hhmm......Erik Hartmann.........352 kills, and made it to the mid 80's?
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Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
None.
I find it hard to look up to murder even in a conflict.
and yes,war is murder.
"hugs a tree"
lol "yes i pay to murder people in a virtual inviroment,and so do you."
I would rather be shot ten thousand times before i shoot someone else and watch the life drain from there eyes.
My life is nothing,my soul is everything, you take someone else's life..a part of your soul dies with them, ask anyone whos taken life.
some can justify it,but in the end the truth always comes back on them,look how many men beg forgivness on there deathbeds for taking the life of another, for whatever the reason or justifecation.
i think we all understand what you're saying......but....the fact remains that if our men and women hadn't done what they did, then we all wouldn't have any of what we do now......i don't like murder either.......but if it's him or me, he's deader than a doornail. if it's him or my family, i'll grind his azzzzz into the ground before i let anyone touch my family........can;t help that,,,,,,it's just the way i feel.....my family are the ONLY ones that'll ALWAYS be there till the day i or they die....so i'd do absolutly anything to protect them..even murder(and except for this game, i am a non-violent guy too:D )
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Saburo Sakai forever.
(http://www.avionesclasicos.com/pilotos/ssakai.jpg)
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Originally posted by TracerX
Have to agree with this one. Almost universally recognized as the most talented German pilot. This guy was the equivalent of Fester, BK, Levi, et al. only in real life. His skills were far greater than any that came before or after him on the German side, including Hartman. I am American, and have a natural tendancy to favor the US Aces, but I have to hand it to this guy. He was special. His death was a National tragedy.
See this link (http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/hanstate.html)
That was a great read, thanks!
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Franz Stigler - The chivalrous Knight
(http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/236/image001212d14ae1ta3.jpg)
"Charlie Brown was a B-17 Flying Fortress pilot with the 379th Bomber Group at Kimbolton, England. His B-17 was called 'Ye Old Pub' and was in a terrible state, having been hit by flak and fighters. The compass was damaged and they were flying deeper over enemy territory instead of heading home to Kimbolton.
After flying over an enemy airfield, a pilot named Franz Steigler was ordered to take off and shoot down the B-17. When he got near the B-17, he could not believe his eyes. In his words, he 'had never seen a plane in such a bad state'. The tail and rear section was severely damaged, and the tail gunner wounded. The top gunner was all over the top of the fuselage. The nose was smashed and there were holes everywhere.
Despite having ammunition, Franz flew to the side of the B-17 and looked at Charlie Brown, the pilot. Brown was scared and struggling to control his damaged and blood-stained plane.
Aware that they had no idea where they were going, Franz waved at Charlie to turn 180 degrees. Franz escorted and guided the stricken plane to and slightly over the North Sea towards England. He then saluted Charlie Brown and turned away, back to Europe.
When Franz landed he told the CO that the plane had been shot down over the sea, and never told the truth to anybody. Charlie Brown and the remains of his crew told all at their briefing, but were ordered never to talk about it.
More than 40 years later, Charlie Brown wanted to find the Luftwaffe pilot who saved the crew. After years of research, Franz was found. He had never talked about the incident, not even at post-war reunions.
They met in the USA at a 379th Bomber Group reunion, together with 25 people who are alive now - all because Franz never fired his guns that day. Research shows that Charlie Brown lived in Seattle and Franz Steigler had moved to Vancouver, BC after the war. When they finally met, they discovered they had lived less than 200 miles apart for the past 50 years!"
(http://flyingcarrot.com/Brown,Stigler/Lady%20J's%20411_files/brownoverstigler3.jpg)
Charles Brown and Franz Stigler
A more in depth writeup of the story of the two men, with interviews:
http://flyingcarrot.com/Brown%20And%20Stigler.htm
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LT Cornelius Nooy of course.
(http://vf31tomcatters.aowc.net/user/58451/gallery/143/nooy1902.jpg)
In his second tour he downed a total to 19 aerial victories and became the highest scoring Light Carrier (CVL) Ace and the 4th highest scoring ace in the US Navy.
Lieutenant Cornelius Nicholas Nooy:
Navy Ace with 19 Aerial Victories to his credit.
Born in Smithtown Long Island NY. on April 15, 1921.
He graduated from Long Island High School in 1939 and studied horticulture at the New York State Institute of Agriculture before entering the Naval Aviation Cadet Program in August of 1942 and received his wings in January 1943.
On May 1, 1943 Ens. Nooy was attached to the newly formed Fighter Squadron 31 (VF-31) under the command of Lt. Cmd. Robert Winston at NAS Atlantic City New Jersey.
Ens. Nooy along with the other members of VF-31 were assigned to the USS Cabot, flying the Grumman F6F-3 Hellcat fighter. He served with VF-31 onboard the USS Cabot from September 1943 until October 1944. During the time that USS Cabot was engaged in hostilities from January 1944 through September 1944 Lt. Nooy became a Naval Ace with 15 confirmed aerial victories to his credit.
Lt. Nooy flew as the wingman to both Air Group commanding officers. Flying as Lt. Cmdr Winston's wingman in division 1 and flying as wingman for Lt. Cmdr Wallace.
Lt. Nooy was one of the original 10 pilots from VF-31 who signed up for a second tour of duty which was served aboard the USS Belleau Wood.
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Originally posted by Viking
Franz Stigler - The chivalrous Knight
Excellent story Viking. Thank you, it made my day a little nicer.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Simaril
Not an ace...but Lt. Gen. James Stewart is probably one of my great heroes for his consistent sense of duty, honor, and integrity.
Had a long family tradition of military service to his county, and tried repeatedly to get into the Army Air Corps -- starting over a year before Pearl. Finally had to sneak past the weight requirement to enlist, on his 3rd try. His pay dropped from $72,000 per year to $260 per year. Despite his Hollywood fame, the only time he pulled strings was to make sure he was assigned to combat status rather than serving as a stateside B-17 pilot instructor (his initial assignment). Contrast that with Bob Hope, whose rear area entertainment got way more attention, and who made a joke out of not enlisting -- "Hey, that's dangerous! I might get hurt! (Nothing against Bob Hope, an icon in his own right. Just meaning to contrast the choices available to Stewart.)
He served as operations officer of the 445th bomb group, and then its commander. He was moved to the new 453rd BG to help iron out some difficulties there, and later rose to be chief of staff for the entire wing. He flew 20 combat missions, in time spans that were simply the most lethal for pilots in US history: statistically speaking, in those days you shouldnt have been able to make it to the 25 mission tour goal.
He was awarded The DFC, the Croix de Guerre, and 7 air medals. He remained active in the reserves and continued to serve in executive roles in the Air Force until mandatory retirement age.
But best of all, he never capitalized on his war record. He put clauses in post war movie contracts prohibiting studios from even mentioning it. He didnt talk much about his service, and redirected attention to those who served without fame -- and those who didnt make it home.
He honestly felt he only did his duty. That's the kind of integrity and honor that's worth idolizing.
They don't make em like that anymore.... :(
Must be the 60's that changed it and the subsequent terrible parents we have today and the generation before that. As a guy of 29 i find many of my peers to have little integrety, honor, and decency these days. Lot of superficiality, fakeness, and selfishness. It's dissapointing.
I get along with older people more and have met some WW2 veterans. There common decency, honor and sometimes humor, and there "Aw shucks" attitude over what they did baffles me.....Absolutely amazing.
I've often wondered what would happen if a WW2 situation happened to today's generation what would happen.
My generation dissapoints me. :(
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Originally posted by Viking
Franz Stigler - The chivalrous Knight
Thank you as well Viking. That has got to be one of the most beautiful stories i have ever heard. Had to choke back a tear.....amazing.
Stories like this restore my faith in the human condition.
However one must ask himself, if so much human dignity can exist in a war situation. Why do men fight each other at all?
I'll never understand it.
don't know if i want to understand it. :(
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Originally posted by LEADPIG
My generation dissapoints me. :(
While my generation may have dissappointed me, my grandparents and parents didn't. They gave me more than the richest billionare could buy. The tools to be a decent person. All from their example. They even began laying the groundwork in that hippie decade, the sixties. I'm thinking there's a few amongst our generation that can claim such. May not be the high profiles, though.
It's a theory. Call me an optimist. :)
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Ira Cassius Kepford - Jolly Rogers F4u Pilot, was a star halfback for northwestern university, and during war Flew through CV Bunker Hills Anti Aircraft Artillery to down a kate torp bomber 1000 yards from the ship.
Ira Kepford earned two Navy Crosses, the Gold Star, the Silver Star, three Distinguished Flying Crosses, the Air Medal, Unit Commendation to VF-17, and the American Defense Service Medal.
Finished war with 16 Confirmed kills, Kepford retired from the Navy with the rank of Lieutenant Commander on 1 June 1956. He worked for Rexall Drug Stores afterwards, rising quickly to become president of the company's eastern division.
Talk about a true patriot!
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Adonai! (high five)
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I've always been a fan of jolly rogers but Kepford just stands out risking his own life through his CV's ack just to bring down a torp bomber, that stands out to me and showing he went above and beyond.