Make aircraft engine air restarts as dependable as they were in the actual aircraft
<S>
Eagler
I find it really odd how many people lose their minds over someone shutting off the engine in a dogfight. I still think you can accomplish pretty much the same thing with throttle management and it's faster to apply power again vs shutting it off.
Wiley.
Not true. There are certain low energy moves over the top of the loop that you can do with the engine off which cannot be done with the engine on. Additionally, recover of some spins is much easier with the engine off. I found that to be particularly true in the spitfires.
I'll give you the stall thing, I fly the 152 a lot. ;) But what can you do coming over the top that you can't do with proper throttle control? Easier, maybe, but I don't see what you can do that you absolutely can't without killing the throttle?
Wiley.
To me, it is not really the dependable nature of an aerial restart or even the reliability of the engine itself; it is more of the game aspect. Would a WWII pilot really kill his engine while in a grueling dogfight? This is why I say it is gamey, because it wouldn't happen. And, if it did, it certainly didn't happen often.
They are, you simply have a false assumption about engines not restarting.
HiTech
-Flight of the Intruder
FO: Hey, what happened to you guys?
A couple of minutes back there you didn't answer my calls.
Cole: Oh, that. We had a MiG after us. We did an engine shutdown to throw him off.
FO: In the middle of combat? Whew! Cool move.
Cole: Cool as a jewel.
Grafton: That's b@ll$h!t!
To me, it is not really the dependable nature of an aerial restart or even the reliability of the engine itself; it is more of the game aspect. Would a WWII pilot really kill his engine while in a grueling dogfight? This is why I say it is gamey, because it wouldn't happen. And, if it did, it certainly didn't happen often.
Olds claims to have shot down a 109 with the engine off,he jettisoned the drops and forgot to select the mains on the fuel switch and his 38 ran out of fuel.
I suspect the pucker factor was above normal,however he did get the kill and managed to restart both engines and go home. :aok
:salute
Not even a button press , simply push the mixture forward.
HiTech
Your comparing apples and oranges if you're trying to restart a feathered prop. If you only pulled the mixture to turn off the engine you don't have to unfeather the prop and simply do step 4 of the list on the right. And I cant think of any single engine fighters that have a feather able prop. I.E. the engine will always be turning. Simply pull mixture to cut off engine, note prop still turning. Put mixture back and power is restored.
Also you will note in our 38 if you shut off your engine you don't get an instant restart.
HiTech
Not even a button press , simply push the mixture forward.
HiTech
Your comparing apples and oranges if you're trying to restart a feathered prop. If you only pulled the mixture to turn off the engine you don't have to unfeather the prop and simply do step 4 of the list on the right. And I cant think of any single engine fighters that have a feather able prop. I.E. the engine will always be turning. Simply pull mixture to cut off engine, note prop still turning. Put mixture back and power is restored.
Also you will note in our 38 if you shut off your engine you don't get an instant restart.
HiTech
This brings up another question.... Since this is being done in a stall, will the prop be turning? If not... how far will the plane have to fall before the prop spins up enough to restart?
Are you assuming the engine has been shut down or is at idle?
They said the engine is being shut down.
Again, it is not really about how easy or difficult it is to kill the engine and restart it (mixture, mag switch, whatever), it is about the act of doing it in a dogfight. If it is done in a video game, it is gamey, just like belly landing a perfectly good airplane or bailing out to avoid the long flight home.
What I wonder about is how many IRL engagements actually looked anything like a lot of what we do in the game? Constant stallfighting sometimes at ridiculously low alt, riding the edge of stall constantly and pulling to 5.99Gs for extended periods...
But turning the engine off is just awful.
Again, it is not really about how easy or difficult it is to kill the engine and restart it (mixture, mag switch, whatever), it is about the act of doing it in a dogfight. If it is done in a video game, it is gamey, just like belly landing a perfectly good airplane or bailing out to avoid the long flight home.
Let those who need it do it. Last ditch effort to keep from being shot down. Not really a big deal.
It is nice to see someone do it in game though. Shutting down their engine diminishes their potential maneuvering energy as an adversary and makes them more of a grape, an easier gunnery target.
Let those who need it do it. Last ditch effort to keep from being shot down. Not really a big deal.
It is nice to see someone do it in game though. Shutting down their engine diminishes their potential maneuvering energy as an adversary and makes them more of a grape, an easier gunnery target.
I don't think you are understanding to usage of this feature. It is in fact intended to allow the proponent of the technique to get his / her nose around and falling gracefully to earth faster and with more control than fighting the engine torque allows. This means that rather than a last ditch effort at survival it is more likely to deliver a gun solution on the guy at the bottom end of the rope.
When I was playing it was a move utilized at the very edge of the energy curve and as stated above delivered a more controllable method to drop the nose and gain a gun solution. I used it over the top in loops and in the recovery of specific stalls, in particular floating tail down or flat spins. In these situations fighting the torque of the engine was detrimental to the achievement of the intended outcome.
I don't think you are understanding to usage of this feature. It is in fact intended to allow the proponent of the technique to get his / her nose around and falling gracefully to earth faster and with more control than fighting the engine torque allows. This means that rather than a last ditch effort at survival it is more likely to deliver a gun solution on the guy at the bottom end of the rope.
When I was playing it was a move utilized at the very edge of the energy curve and as stated above delivered a more controllable method to drop the nose and gain a gun solution. I used it over the top in loops and in the recovery of specific stalls, in particular floating tail down or flat spins. In these situations fighting the torque of the engine was detrimental to the achievement of the intended outcome.
There are methods of accomplishing the same objective through use of flight controls, gear, and flaps. The engine torque can also be use to enhance roll rate in combination with pitch[/]b. Getting that slow and out of energy produces the same outcome; the grape target.
How about you put a P51 up into a vertical with your victim keenly following and rudder a turn over the top to the right. See how the engine torque hinders you. Of course you could turn the the left however if that is not the way you need to turn to put the enemy on the defensive then a turn to the right is what you need to do. Hence, engine off.
Or, you could never get into that position in the first place. You could stay fast and safe and bore the opponent to death. Not enough of the first mentality and too much of the second mentality is a major reason why I and many other 'fighter types' no longer fly the game.
I’ve done so in the game with the Mustang and real world in Crazy Horse 2 at Stallion 51. Putting one’s self in a real world combat situation requiring a right turn at slow/no speed would indicate a lack of experience/situational experience and energy management. Shutting the engine off at that point would only increase the chances of getting killed or spending time as a POW. Of course, in game we can do anything and justify it any way we want to. The cartoon world is relatively forgiving.
As is often said, “technique only”. Most often the first one to make a mistake loses. Then, it’s a matter of learning from the mistake and doing better the next time, or going quit playing and go home. Again, technique only. :salute
How about you put a P51 up into a vertical with your victim keenly following and rudder a turn over the top to the right. See how the engine torque hinders you. Of course you could turn the the left however if that is not the way you need to turn to put the enemy on the defensive then a turn to the right is what you need to do. Hence, engine off.
Or, you could never get into that position in the first place. You could stay fast and safe and bore the opponent to death. Not enough of the first mentality and too much of the second mentality is a major reason why I and many other 'fighter types' no longer fly the game.
What handle do you fly under Pcobra? Just curious.
Putting one’s self in a real world combat situation requiring a right turn at slow/no speed would indicate a lack of experience/situational experience and energy management. Shutting the engine off at that point would only increase the chances of getting killed or spending time as a POW. Of course, in game we can do anything and justify it any way we want to. The cartoon world is relatively forgiving.
Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that if I was a real fighter pilot in a real war there is no way I would be getting so slow that I am fighting gravity more than the enemy aircraft and I would certainly not be turning my engine off. But as you point out, it is a game and I used to play it for fun. Then everyone got into high speed passes and gun 'n run 3 on 1 type stuff. More akin to real world I suspect. Then it just got boring.
Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that if I was a real fighter pilot in a real war there is no way I would be getting so slow that I am fighting gravity more than the enemy aircraft and I would certainly not be turning my engine off. But as you point out, it is a game and I used to play it for fun. Then everyone got into high speed passes and gun 'n run 3 on 1 type stuff. More akin to real world I suspect. Then it just got boring.
Paging Clarence Anderson
https://www.aerialcombat.co.uk/2016/11/six-miles-high-bud-andersons-roller-coaster-dogfight-victory.html
I have my own notion of who this is. Be that as it may, I do wonder if he continues to play this game.
- oldman
What handle do you fly under Pcobra? Just curious.
When it happens in the MK1s it's unsettling and distracting as it hasn't been induced by the pilot.. Often swinging the fight away from the MK1s.
Yeah that's for sure. But did the engine started again after it shut off? How did that work? I am intrigued.