Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Vinkman on January 10, 2020, 09:43:17 AM
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I thought this would be useful for level bombing, but as I have researched how it works it's only version of the auto pilot climb mode where the auto pilot will vary pitch to try to keep the IAS at a set speed at a given throttle setting. This setting is no use when dropping bombs. Since it works of IAS It's not even useful for timing missions and rendezvous because that would require constant TAS. Auto climb already provides the optimum pitch and power to achieve the highest possible climb rate without stalling.
So my questions are what is the purpose of this setting?
Wouldn't a true cruise control in level mode be much more useful?
Why is this setting disabled in level flight mode?
:salute
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The speed command is the manual adjustment of the auto-climb command. One good reason to adjust it is so you can climb at a speed that still has good turn performance.
If you want to use it to set a level flight speed you would set the speed then adjust the throttle to avoid climbing or descending. Note that it take a little while for the aircraft to stabilize.
In level flight mode the auto pilot has to respond to speed changes so you can't specify the speed.
The auto pilot modes are simply to reduce the workload of the virtual pilot without adding modern features to the autopilot.
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I think it is safe to say that there is no such thing as "auto climb" there is only the speed mode which results in a climb because most people have the throttle all the way in. What I have learned to do with bombers is to get a calibration at a speed I like and then climb or accelerate ignoring the difference in speed between actual and calibrated and then when I am getting ready to do the bomb run I fly in F1 or F3 and mindful of the difference between IAS (what the instruments show) and TAS (what the bombsight is calibrated in) I pitch up or down, retard throttle etc. till I am at the correct speed, get into F6 and double tap U to correct the altitude calibration. A stabilized approach is most accurate as everything is settled down but I have had good luck with this method and it allows me to get the most height or the fastest transit time. (also I have to change control mode in F6 because the default doesn't let me maneuver left or right)
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What I usually do when I'm bombing is just autolevel, calibrate at some point, note the airspeed in the bombsight that it's calibrated to, and then when I'm close to target just move the throttle to match the TAS showing in the bombsight. Seems to work just fine, about the simplest thing in the game to do. A couple feet high/low or a couple mph off on the speed moves the impact point a couple feet on the ground. IMO unless you're at ludicrous alt it's not worth that much to micromanage your alt/speed.
Seems to me autolevel does what it says on the tin, and you can adjust it with throttle. Setting speed keeps you at a consistant IAS for climbing, which seems to me it would be preferable rather than having a setting that holds to climb rate or something like that.
Wiley.
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I think it is safe to say that there is no such thing as "auto climb" ...
Technically it's autopilot speed mode. What we call auto climb refers to the default speed setting which, as Vinkman pointed out, gives you your best climb rate.
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What I usually do when I'm bombing is just autolevel, calibrate at some point, note the airspeed in the bombsight that it's calibrated to, and then when I'm close to target just move the throttle to match the TAS showing in the bombsight. Seems to work just fine, about the simplest thing in the game to do. A couple feet high/low or a couple mph off on the speed moves the impact point a couple feet on the ground. IMO unless you're at ludicrous alt it's not worth that much to micromanage your alt/speed.
Seems to me autolevel does what it says on the tin, and you can adjust it with throttle. Setting speed keeps you at a consistant IAS for climbing, which seems to me it would be preferable rather than having a setting that holds to climb rate or something like that.
Wiley.
This is what I currently do also. I find that it takes many adjustments to get the Speed to match the calibrated speed. Aften times in level flight it takes the plane a really long time to real terminal velocity at any given throttle setting. Overshoot, over correct, overshoot, over correct. It's hard physically move the throttle in such small increments. Since the idea of auto pilot is reduce the workload. Why not enable the speed mode in level flight so the auto pilot will converge the speed to a set number in a reasonable about of time? I still have to fight off fighter, calibrate, line it up, salvo, delay. drop etc...
:salute
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Also..I know the throttle is pushed in or max or what ever, but it's a virtual throttle, so the code can over ride what ever position the pilot has input even if his throttle never changes position. if he does move it, it should deactivate the Auto pilot and just move to the actual current throttle position setting.
Anyone support a speed mode control for level flight? If so I may put in the wish list.
Thanks,
:salute
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Changing the auto pilot code is not going to stabilize the aircraft speed any sooner, it's not that kind of flight model.
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I AP: Speed climb in increments. Starting at 150 and then every few thousand feet I step the speed up until I am at 200 IAS. I stay here until I reach my designated alt. Then I Ap: Level and adjust my throttle to stabilize climb to zero. Calibrate and then break stuff on the ground.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Anyone support a speed mode control for level flight? If so I may put in the wish list.
Most WWII airplanes did not have any type of autopilot. Unless you can find documentation of this feature in a specific bomber, it should not be added.
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Most WWII airplanes did not have any type of autopilot. Unless you can find documentation of this feature in a specific bomber, it should not be added.
I dont ever recall seeing the Wingman feature either in any WW2 films if were talking realism here.Why even sit there when your wingman is doing all the flying?
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Wait for the wish before you argue the wish. :aok
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I thought this would be useful for level bombing, but as I have researched how it works it's only version of the auto pilot climb mode where the auto pilot will vary pitch to try to keep the IAS at a set speed at a given throttle setting. This setting is no use when dropping bombs. Since it works of IAS It's not even useful for timing missions and rendezvous because that would require constant TAS. Auto climb already provides the optimum pitch and power to achieve the highest possible climb rate without stalling.
So my questions are what is the purpose of this setting?
Wouldn't a true cruise control in level mode be much more useful?
Why is this setting disabled in level flight mode?
:salute
The AP: Level mode works fine. You just need to open your E6B and zero out your climb rate. Once you zero that out your ride should maintain a consistent speed. The rest is proper calibration prior to drop. Don't rush it and it should allow you to smash targets with ease.
:salute
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The AP: Level mode works fine. You just need to open your E6B and zero out your climb rate. Once you zero that out your ride should maintain a consistent speed. The rest is proper calibration prior to drop. Don't rush it and it should allow you to smash targets with ease.
:salute
Once level, a pilot is required to match the throttle to the current speed. If you come off stable climb and level the plane, the plane will accelerate if the throttle is not reduced. So once you’re level, it’s an iterative throttle process to stabilize at desired speed.
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The .speed command is not only useful for going up, but also for getting down fast.
Kinda handy trying to get your bombers down quickly.
Coogan :airplane:
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It's also good for deadstick gliding. The default climb speed makes a good glide speed.
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Once level, a pilot is required to match the throttle to the current speed. If you come off stable climb and level the plane, the plane will accelerate if the throttle is not reduced. So once you’re level, it’s an iterative throttle process to stabilize at desired speed.
Depending on how fast I reach alt and how far away the target is from my go level. I will typically let the AC hit max speed, calibrate and break ground targets.
If I have a short target, I jockey the throttle to zero out my E6B.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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It's also good for deadstick gliding. The default climb speed makes a good glide speed.
Yes it does. :aok
Coogan
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Basicly The speed command functions like FLC, Flight Level Change in a standard autopilot. The computer will endeavor to maintain the speed not the angle.
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It does't function in a way that is very functional. :salute
A speed command that controlled the level speed of the plane by varying throttle would be much more useful. :salute
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Auto-speed does exactly what it's supposed to do. It's not meant to do what you want it to do.
Use the same manifold and RPM settings in auto-level flight and you'll stabilize at the same speed.
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Auto-speed does exactly what it's supposed to do. It's not meant to do what you want it to do.
Yes I know what it does. That's not very useful.
Use the same manifold and RPM settings in auto-level flight and you'll stabilize at the same speed.
Yes I know, but it takes 3-6+ minutes for a plane to stabilize it's speed in level flight. throttle settings for a given speed will vary by alt and load out. A speed controller would do it much faster, the same way auto climb reached max climb rate for a given throttle setting and load out in seconds. It usefulness in bombing is that salvos and delays can be set for a given forward speed to maximize bomb coverage. Many folks bomb. All the fun math that can worked out only to have to take forever to stabilize at the target speed. So reaching target speed quickly when level is, to me, much more useful than a target speed when climbing which isn't that useful. With the former more useful than the latter, why do have the less useful one?
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A speed controller would only reduce the throttle, you can do that yourself.
Then, after you slow down enough, set the manifold and RPM for the speed you want to stabilize at. You'll have to learn the settings you want to use.
I understand why you want it to work differently but then it would be simply a level bomber feature instead of generally useful for all aircraft.
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A speed controller would only reduce the throttle, you can do that yourself.
It would Advance and reduce as required, but the real advantage is quick convergence and reduced pilot workload. Remember a buff pilot had to man the guns, fly the plane, line up the target, calibrate, set salvo & delay, and drop an each target. He's a bit over loaded. If your cal speed and actual speed are off by 3-5 mph and you miss.
Then, after you slow down enough, set the manifold and RPM for the speed you want to stabilize at. You'll have to learn the settings you want to use.
yes that is the work around. But is not as easy or effective as it seems. Take a fair amount bombardier CPU time to get this dialed in.
I understand why you want it to work differently but then it would be simply a level bomber feature instead of generally useful for all aircraft.
We don't have to choose. we can have both. :) I think it would be useful for planes with slow reaction times. 262, Arado, 163, all buffs. Also if you added it as a feature, and checked the number of times it was used in climb mode and level mode, you'd find the latter used much more often... by me at least. :salute
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You want a new auto pilot feature that makes bombing easier.
You should post in the wishlist. :aok
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Probably. I think I’m just curious how a speed command was developed that varies climb rate to hold a speed, vs cruise control. Who asked for the first one? Doesn’t it seem like a unusual speed control method to program?
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I think it's generally useful for all aircraft. You can set your climb rate, descent rate, glide speed, and use your throttle to set altitude.
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Probably. I think I’m just curious how a speed command was developed that varies climb rate to hold a speed, vs cruise control. Who asked for the first one? Doesn’t it seem like a unusual speed control method to program?
The speed mode isn't really an autopilot input - it simply sets the trim to a set location such that a centered stick commands a specific angle of attack based on the weight on the aircraft (and possibly the center of gravity, if the system even models c.g. shifts due to ordnance and fuel). This angle of attack is such that the aircraft develops 1g of lift at the desired airspeed. If the speed is less, the aircraft develops less lift and the nose drops, and vice versa. You may note that this can and does result in overshoots and oscillation around the desired speed if it is substantially different from the actual airspeed or if the aircraft is not in stable flight.
Mike
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Understood Mike. :salute I'm asking what the usefulness of that mode is. IF I set the speed in a fighter of say 200 mph at 5K, I might end up at 25K when I reach my destination because the my throttle setting was too high and the plane entered a climb to maintain set speed. If I the throttle is too low, I would hit the ground.
I guess all auto pilots only have control of the elevators and ailerons, not the throttle. perhaps that was an actual WWII limitation and so modes programmed in AH are limited to same?
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Understood Mike. :salute I'm asking what the usefulness of that mode is. IF I set the speed in a fighter of say 200 mph at 5K, I might end up at 25K when I reach my destination because the my throttle setting was too high and the plane entered a climb to maintain set speed. If I the throttle is too low, I would hit the ground.
I guess all auto pilots only have control of the elevators and ailerons, not the throttle. perhaps that was an actual WWII limitation and so modes programmed in AH are limited to same?
Most World War II airplanes didn't have any auto pilot at all. As I understand it, the auto trim and speed commands are there to help make up for some of the things that you have in a real airplane that you don't have at your computer desk. As Hitech explained, you can't trim a spring loaded joystick the same way you can trim an airplane in true flight.
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The primary use of a speed-holding mode would be in the climb - holding a specific speed (which varies by aircraft and by the aircraft weight) will give you specific climb performance. Either best rate (shortest time to your altitude) or best angle (useful when necessary to clear an obstacle, but not often a requirement in this game).
For most propeller driven aircraft, the two airspeeds are very similar. In jets, the airspeed for best rate of climb is significantly higher than best angle.
Mike
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The primary use of a speed-holding mode would be in the climb - holding a specific speed (which varies by aircraft and by the aircraft weight) will give you specific climb performance.
Agreed. Really, it's just a trim command. Set the speed then advance throttle to climb, retard throttle to descend.
- oldman