Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: parker00 on August 22, 2005, 02:42:38 PM
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I wouldn't mind seeing a B-25 but i haven't noticed to many request for this bomber. Is it a really crappy one or what, hell just to be able to fly it would be cool, even better if you could take it off a carrier. Make it hard to take off from there, but possible. The link below mentions a 75mm cannon on the front of it, we'll really see the tigers running when that thing is coming in. :)
B-25 (http://www.aviation-history.com/north-american/b25.html)
Just a thought!!!
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We need it, but not as bad as a Japanese bomber like the Betty or the He111 for the germans. The 75mm gun on the B-25 probably isnt going to scare many Tigers since its the same puny short barrel gun on the Sherman that could not damage a Tiger point blank.
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75 mm from the air is a little different the the shermans lvl shot.
Tiger had thin top armor
I would love to dive on a tiger w/ 75 mm but doubt we will see the b25 at all
Fungi
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although i don't see them ever adding a gun like that, it would be nice. Be nice to take on a cv run as well!!!! hehe
And when it fired it felt like the aircraft had "hit a brick wall", but with its 2.95 inch (75 mm) projectile, it could turn a tank into scrap metal and punch very large holes in Japanese destroyers and barges at a range of nearly 2 miles. The Japanese paid dearly for the ideas of Kenney and the ingenuity of Gunn.
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It is a manually loaded, crew served cannon though. It could not be loaded and fired in anything resembling a steep dive or heavy manuevering. That is one reason we were interested in aquairing the 57mm Mollins gun used in the Mosquito FB.Mk XVIII. It could be fired in those circumstances.
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It has been requested many times. But instead of renaming the the old "Gameplay feedback and request" forum "Wishlist" they simply deleted it and all its posts along with it.
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I'm all for the B25, but NOT the 75mm armed H variant.
We *need* a glass-nosed early variant (for mid war scenarios and for fun!) and I'd *love* to see the solid nose with 8 50cals (plus 2 each side under cockpit, = 12 forward firing 50cal!)
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Nothing wrong with the B25H. Unless your a GV guy that is. This game is all about bringing death from above.
12 forward 50's would be cool too.
:)
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But I'd always want the glass nosed bomber as well (level bombsite, instead of dive bomber)
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If the B25 was put in there should be both a level bomber version and an attack variant, preferably the H. My case for the H is that the 75mm gun would be slow firing even if it could be reloaded while pulling maneuvers. You would one shot on a pass and would have to get a direct hit. It also wouldn't be that maneuverable and shot be an easier target for a M16 of Flak.
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i think the one with the 75mm is to specialized. you can only use it against ships and gvs in a practical sence. however the one with 12X.50s would be friggin awsome.
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Originally posted by SMIDSY
i think the one with the 75mm is to specialized. you can only use it against ships and gvs in a practical sence. however the one with 12X.50s would be friggin awsome.
Not totally true. The 75mm could also be loaded with HE rounds for use against buildings and other soft targets. And large soft targets can be attacked multiple times in a shallow dive... Then you follow it up with parafrags :aok
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I think we need the B29 1st!!!
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Originally posted by SuperDud
I think we need the B29 1st!!!
You cant even mention a B-29 without the obligitory nuke-whining. So, it will never happen.
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what was the payload of a B25 ? does anybody know how much ord it could carry ? same in the B29 , if they can carry more ord than a B24 I'm for it
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The B-29 had a max payload of 20,000lbs.
Why people keep talking about the nuke I don't know as it will never happen. We'll get a B-29A with the turrets, not one of the whopping two B-29's modified to carry the nukes. Just as the 22,000lb bomb the Lancaster carried requires a modified Lancaster so we will never see that either.
The B-29A will also be heavily perked, mark my words on that. You'll see no suicide 29s and very few low altitude 29s.
I don't recall the payload of the B-25 off hand, about 3,000 to 5,000lbs as I recall, depending on the version.
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ohhh that would be sweeeet you can keep the B25's I want the B29 with the hvy ord... would give me something to spend my 5,000 bomber perk points on lol
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Originally posted by Karnak
We'll get a B-29A with the turrets, not one of the whopping two B-29's modified to carry the nukes.
The B-29 has officially been mothballed. We won't be getting any version of it. HOOORAY
Stil like the idea of smaller bombers being added, as long as a single gamey form can't immolate an entire field.
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The B-25 is a medium bomber, but it's also a small plane. I think it's max payload is 1500 (3x 500lb GP bombs) because I built a model kit once and that's all it could carry. Or maybe that was just a "typical" bombload. I don't know. LOL I better go check, brb
EDIT: Must have been 3x 1000lb on my model lol
Found a site that's talking about the -H (and the -J, which had all the features of the H, waist guns, dorsal moved forward, tail guns, etc etc.)
"Provision was made to carry three 1000 pound bombs rather than just two. Alternatively, two 1600-pound armor-piercing bombs could be carried. Provisions were made for the carrying of six 325-pound depth charges on underwing racks"
"Beginning with the 151st B-25J-1 (43-4019), provisions for the carrying of a single 2000-pound bomb were deleted. As it turned out, the 2000-pound bomb was rarely carried during actual combat, and the bulky and restrictive shackles for the 2000-pound bomb took up a lot of space in the bomb bay. This enabled a normal offensive load of two 1600-lb or three 1000-lb bombs to be carried internally, plus combinations of smaller bombs of various types, including 20-pound parafrags."
"Provisions were made for the carrying of wing-mounted T-64 zero-length rocket launchers beginning with 44-31338. These launchers could carry up to eight five-inch high-velocity aircraft rockets (HVAR). "
"The transparent nose for the bombardier could be replaced by a factory built solid gun nose that was equipped with eight 0.50-inch machine guns. With this modification, the aircraft was designated as B-25J-11, -17, -22, -27, -32, or -37, depending on which production block the modification took place. With its maximum armament of eighteen guns, the solid-nosed B-25J was one of the most heavily-armed attack aircraft in the Allied arsenal. Sometimes, however, the package guns on the sides of the fuselage were deleted, the remaining fourteen guns being more than enough."
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Krusty from the sound of things the B25 sounds pretty freakin cool wish we could get some... don't want to sound dumb but isn't the B25 the plane that the Doolittle raid used ?
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Iceman, yes. The Doolittle raid used early B25Bs and stripped them down totally (broomsticks for tail guns) and loaded them with hundreds of gallons of gas more than standard.
Found some more info on the armament of the B-25H. It turns out the 75mm wasn't all that popular, nor that practical.
"The first B-25Hs arrived in the FEAF in February of 1944, entering service with the 498th Squadron. The B-25H carried the extraordinarily potent armament of fourteen 0.50-inch machine guns and a 75-mm cannon, and could also carry up to 3200 pounds of bombs or a 2000-pound torpedo. The cannon carried by the B-25H was bore-sighted at 1000 yards and was generally fired at altitudes from 1000 feet at the beginning an attack to 500 feet at the end. The sighting was done with the N-6A sight, and the guns were fired by the pilot, there being no bombardier or co-pilot aboard. During an attack, cannon fire was usually opened at 2000 yards, with an average of three rounds being fired by the time the aircraft closed to 1000 yards.
"Combat sorties confirmed that the cannon-armed B-25H offered no particular advantage over specially-adapted strafers armed exclusively with machine guns. At this stage in the war, targets specifically suited for cannon attack were relatively few and far between, and many targets that were vulnerable to the cannon were also vulnerable to a battery of 0.50-inch machine guns or to bombs. Consequently, the use of the heavy cannon was generally abandoned in the South-West Pacific by August of 1944.
"In September, the B-25Hs were either passed along to the 38th Bombardment Group (which was already operating B-25Gs) or returned to depots. Unlike most other groups, the 38th Bombardment Group actually welcomed the H model.
"24 B-25Hs were taken on strength by the 11th Bombardment Squadron of the Fourteenth Air Force for interdiction work in China in early 1944. They were first employed on river sweeps. In November the 11th Squadron received a few examples of the new APG-13A radar ranging equipment for use with the 75-mm cannon. This enabled the precise range to a target to be determined at all times during an attacking run, making precise aiming much simpler. This equipment was operated by the navigator, and was installed in B-25Hs 43-4584, 4071, 4924, 4989, and 4601."
EDIT: One thing about the H/J vs the early C... The C was the fastest, breaking 300mph (I think 323 or something), but the H/J only had a top speed of 275mph. This was due to improvements in armor and guns. So while the C was lighter and could fly faster, it also was easier to shoot down. I think that makes it worth having 2 versions (early/late)
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Yes it was Iceman, that alone is why i was thinking it would be nice to have in the game. I know the payload was light but if they made it so you could launch it from a carrier it would be cool. I know some people would complain but oh well. I also liked the part on the website that said some versions carried a 75mm cannon in the nose and carried something like 20 rounds in the plane for it. Be a nice CV killer if they put that in them, but don't see it happening anytime soon.
Edit: Well i didn't see your post before mine Krusty so i guess the 75mm might not be all that great but I would still like to see this plane in the game.
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all I know is I have about 5-10 thousand bomber perk points and the only thing I can buy is the porking AR234 need some new toys to use em on lol... a B25 with 14 .50 cals sounds sweeet... I don't think i would even bother carrying ord. just use it as gun platform lol
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I thought so, I was pretty sure it was the B25 but didn't want to make a mistake.... Parker you can land and launch any plane in this game from a cv, lancs, b24's, 262's whatever... If its a plane in this game you can land it and take it off again from a cv... I never thought it was possible to get a 262 to stop but someone posted a film, can't remember who, might have been a BK member but I practiced it a while and can stop em every time... Its pretty fun to drop a lanc on the deck of a cv while others are upping and landing on it, you'll notice everyone kinda circle around and watch because they don't think you can do it... Not sure how many ppl know this but if your cv gets sunk, you can actually land on the cruiser / destroyer, its a lil tricky but you can do it
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parker, did you not read the specs on how the b25 was launched? they had to drop all thier guns and ammo just to get airborn. personally i would rather stay with the trusty TBM or B5N for carrier bombers.
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yeah but you can't take a formation of TBM's or B5N's. B-25's you could. If HTC does a B-25 though it needs to have the para-frag bombs. They should be easy to model also. Pretty much a 5" AAA shell with a parachute attached. Could even model both Frags and HE like the 5" guns have.:aok
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Originally posted by SMIDSY
parker, did you not read the specs on how the b25 was launched? they had to drop all thier guns and ammo just to get airborn. personally i would rather stay with the trusty TBM or B5N for carrier bombers.
To be fair they had an extra fuel tank in the bomb bay, an extra fuel tank in the crawl space above the bomb bay, a huge fuel tank where the waist gunners would have been, a fuel tank where the remotely operated ventral turret would have been (they were pulled), and on top of that 5 jerry cans for in-flight refueling, so this thing was TOTALLY weighed down with gas, to be able to make the flight plan. A NORMAL B25 not loaded with gas but loaded with guns and people may or may not have weighed the same (I don't know). Also the Doolittle raid was 2000lbs per bomber for bombs, 4x500lb.
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Originally posted by Hornet33
yeah but you can't take a formation of TBM's or B5N's. B-25's you could. If HTC does a B-25 though it needs to have the para-frag bombs. They should be easy to model also. Pretty much a 5" AAA shell with a parachute attached. Could even model both Frags and HE like the 5" guns have.:aok
Parafrags were just small fragmentation bombs, or really big frag grenades. Be really nice for town and strats, but lousy for antitank and airfield strat. I'm still all for them, combined with either the 75mm or the 'tons-o-guns' hardnose B-25's :aok
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While I like the hard nose idea, I also read that it only had 400 rpg for the "8-pack" in the nose, and each cheek blister had only 400rpg as well. Sure it would only take one burst to destroy something, but you'd only get so many bursts before guns dry :)
So I'd take the ord to start things off then finish with guns.
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a hard noser is good for only one thing in my opinion: bomber busting. imagine if the hard nose had formations BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! you could erode the armor of tigers (mini-gun theory).
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The armor of tigers doesn't erode with millions of little hits. It's so dense that the light rounds just bounce off, not eroding the material at all. Might make a small series of dents, but I doubt it.
If we got the hard nose, the only problem is a top speed of 275mph. Nobody's going to catch bombers with that! Especially when P47 with 8x50cal flies 400+ :)
But it would be fun to duel them, no? :P
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Just a quick note here,
The were 15 B-29's assigned to the 509th group. They were called Silverplate and designed to carry the A-Bombs. They could also carry regular bombs. They used to practice with something called a pumpkin bomb
Here is a link to the B-29 web site with great stories and other information. http://b-29.org
My uncle, TSgt Rod Arnold was the flight Engineer on the B-29 Bockscar, the second A-Bomb mission aircraft. The crew was replaced by the CO's crew (RHIP) and flew in the second chase aircraft (dropping instrument packages) The Great Artiste.
While at the Air force Museum I look in the archives for the aircraft forms and found his signature there.
His stories were allways interesting and full of adventure!
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B25s from CVs (stripped down or otherwise) would be good. I've just moved over from years in the wilderness of Warbirds (hoots of derision) & it's an option there. Doolittle raid was cv launched but can anyone tell me if there were others plse?
As for B29s - come on guys, 360mph, 25k, 20000lbs - fun to be in but not exactly adding much to the competitive element of the game - eh?
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Yes...we definitely need to B-25 :aok
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Originally posted by Krusty
While I like the hard nose idea, I also read that it only had 400 rpg for the "8-pack" in the nose, and each cheek blister had only 400rpg as well. Sure it would only take one burst to destroy something, but you'd only get so many bursts before guns dry :)
So I'd take the ord to start things off then finish with guns.
400rnd/gun is on the low side of average for fifties. You just need to be light on the trigger, is all.
I'd still prefer the BFG package, though :aok
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Originally posted by parker00
And when it fired it felt like the aircraft had "hit a brick wall", but with its 2.95 inch (75 mm) projectile, it could turn a tank into scrap metal and punch very large holes in Japanese destroyers and barges at a range of nearly 2 miles. The Japanese paid dearly for the ideas of Kenney and the ingenuity of Gunn.
Of course a 75mm howitzer shell would turn a Japanese tank into scrap metal. They weren't armored like German tanks, or even US tanks for that matter.
The 75mm was used mostly in strafing soft targets and maritime shipping. IIRC, those units in the PTO that used the B-25H equipped with the 75mm howitzer were later shipped off to the CBI theater where they enjoyed much more success.
ack-ack
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phaser, it dont matter how many B29s were equipped to drop A-bombs. the fact is there were only 4 A-bombs in existance by the end of the war.
ack-ack
i heard an anecdote about a GI who nocked out a japanese light tank with a BAR.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Of course a 75mm howitzer shell would turn a Japanese tank into scrap metal. They weren't armored like German tanks, or even US tanks for that matter.
The 75mm was used mostly in strafing soft targets and maritime shipping. IIRC, those units in the PTO that used the B-25H equipped with the 75mm howitzer were later shipped off to the CBI theater where they enjoyed much more success.
ack-ack
From what I've heard, this is the same 75mm gun as the Sherman had. If this is the case, could it not be loaded with AP and fired for the top deck of a tank?
And if this is not the case, could you hold down the person that said it, so I can beat him to death with a dead trout?
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Tanks are hard targets. It was meant for soft targets. I think it only carried HE rounds. And, as reported, it only did well in areas where the US had superior technology/weaponry and could smack around the weak river barges and lightly defended cargo ships (oooh.. ahhhh...) with impunity. Vs hard targets you'd not bother screwing around with a 75mm gun as you'd be shot down before you fired round 1 from it.
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Originally posted by Tails
From what I've heard, this is the same 75mm gun as the Sherman had. If this is the case, could it not be loaded with AP and fired for the top deck of a tank?
The 75mm M4 and later the T13E1 75mm used in the G and H were both cannons, not howitzers, although they were very low velocity. The M4 is identical to the short barrel 75mm gun in the first Shermans, while the T13E1 was only different in that it was lightened for aircraft use. It could fire an AP round just like the Sherman, but if they did or not, I have no idea.
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If they were used on shipping and/or tanks, I would assume they had AP rounds for them, or atleast some kind of API or HEAT shell. I'm gonna try digging around and see what I see.
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If they enable the B-25 from CVs when it is introduced they might as well enable P-47s and Spitfire Mk XIVs from CVs as they also flew into combat from CVs.
Obviously I disagree with this. Only enable designed CV aircraft on CVs.