Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on August 16, 2004, 06:44:16 PM
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Do you think that shooting a looter is using excessive force?
Down the road in the park sat Vietnam veteran Gary Snyder, drinking Miller High Life. Snyder, who was among only a handful in Harborview who rode out the storm, said residents were anxious about looters, but he was prepared.
"If I see 'em, I'll shoot 'em," he said. "They're gone. I'll tell 'em(the authorities) I had a flashback."
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/08/16/Weather/Thieves_plunder_in_Ch.shtml
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Depends on what they are stealing.
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Originally posted by Maniac
Depends on what they are stealing.
Your personal property.
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Yep... I'd be out there also Sniping Looters...I worked hard for my stuff, some punk after a Hurricane is gonna come in and clean me out??? No way... instead of killing him I'd wing him, arms, legs and a shot at the groin.....
If you have Balls enuff to come into my home and Community to take what's not your's... I'll have yer Balls in a scope.
Love Always,
MacMAW
:D
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Your personal property.
Thats a wide spectrum there. Only time i would consider killing someone over stealing my property is if it is worth over 10 000$
And of course if he tryed to kill me in the process of looting then its legit.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Do you think that shooting a looter is using excessive force?
I guess it depends on what caliber you're using.
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Originally posted by Maniac
Thats a wide spectrum there. Only time i would consider killing someone over stealing my property is if it is worth over 10 000$
And of course if he tryed to kill me in the process of looting then its legit.
So, life has a $$ number to it?
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Oh Yes.
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Originally posted by SOB
I guess it depends on what caliber you're using.
:rofl :rofl
FWIW, I wouldn't shoot someone for looting. I may threaten them with force, but I wouldn't use a weapon unless they became a threat to me or my family.
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Originally posted by Maniac
Oh Yes.
Interesting. How would you do it? Lets say you watch them collect roughly $8,500 worth of your stuff...now they pick up the computer and TV, and its gone over $10,000, now you pull the trigger? Would you have your calculator out there ?
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Originally posted by SOB
I guess it depends on what caliber you're using.
7.62 or a 5.56... doesn't matter. Bows and CrossBows make all the more fun!
:p
If they were not known in the Community, then they are game... once they start looking into houses that they don't or have never lived in...one shot to let them know they are screwed and the best thing for them to do is haul assss back where they came from... or it they're arse...plain and simple... it's as if they entered your home and raped your family!!!
No Mercy for Looters! 1 Warning the if need be it's they're life.
~Remember to support your local NRA association~
Mac
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That's reasonable...I'm thinking a .50 cal would just be gratuitus - and kinda messy.
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Get off the Monetary crap Dipchit... it's Pride and Protection. If I came to your house and leveled it the only took $8,999,99 worth of yer watermelon would you let me and my friends happily walk away with it?
If so where do you live now?
heehee
:rofl
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Interesting. How would you do it? Lets say you watch them collect roughly $8,500 worth of your stuff...now they pick up the computer and TV, and its gone over $10,000, now you pull the trigger? Would you have your calculator out there ?
Nah, djust quick calculation in the head. Lets say you have a box with $10,000 and they get their hands on it.
Of course i would issue a warning, if they dont drop the box, and they start leaving with it then i would fire i warning shot... If it would come to me having to shoot the dude then of course i wouldnt shoot to kill, but if that would be the end result then ok...
All this is hypotetical tough, i dont have a box with $10,000, my home will never be looted, i dont own a gun.
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Shooting a looter I think is a little bit excessive. I would threaten them, and if they didnt back off I'd probably fight them out. If they pulled a weapon like a knife or gun and threatened my family, i would shoot without question.
Now theres a fine line between what I would do and whats allowed. Here in Virginia there are strict laws about issues like this. One says that to have legitimate reason to shoot a trespasser: your life or someone else's must be in danger. That means you can shoot the guy if he points a gun at you, but you cant if he steals everything you own without a weapon or physical harm.
Also, if there is someone standing on the other side of your door pointing a gun through it, you can't shoot through the door. You must first open the door, then you "know" your life is in danger and may shoot.
So, what I would do probably would have more serious consequences than getting some of my valuables stolen. But I definately wouldn't let someone doing that get away lightly.
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OK here's a good question/scenerio for ya'll.
Let say a looter is unarmed and stealing property.
Lets say that property just happens to be supplies that are in extreme short supply like Gasoline, food ect.
Now if its winter time or I have a kid that needs that fuel to run the generator for life support ect. Or that food is what's keeping my family alive and we were told not to expect more anytime soon.
Even though my life is not in direct danger the actions of a thief may in fact cause one of thier deaths or serious harm.
Would this genuinly warrent shooting of a looter?
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(http://www.people.virginia.edu/~mmh9a/pics/funny/trespasser.jpg)
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Let say a looter is unarmed and stealing property.
Lets say that property just happens to be supplies that are in extreme short supply like Gasoline, food ect.
Now if its winter time or I have a kid that needs that fuel to run the generator for life support ect. Or that food is what's keeping my family alive and we were told not to expect more anytime soon.
Even though my life is not in direct danger the actions of a thief may in fact cause one of thier deaths or serious harm.
Would this genuinly warrent shooting of a looter?
Well you can try to take it back peacefully or in a more non peacefull way before you kill the dude.
But hey, in a last resort... its either he and his family or yours that survives.
You cant blame him for trying either so i guess all bets are off.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Do you think that shooting a looter is using excessive force?
yes :)
unless he was stealing my gf or baby
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Just tell authorities the looter entered your home and you feared for your life. When your house is spread out over the whole block, "he entered my home" takes on a new meaning.
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
Just tell authorities the looter entered your home and you feared for your life. When your house is spread out over the whole block, "he entered my home" takes on a new meaning.
:lol
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People are snapping in Punta gorda:
It was 90+ degrees today with 95+% humidity
They lost their homes, they have little food and water, they havent had a shower in days, a shower at 95% humidity doesn't help anyway...
When this guy says he may shoot someeone I would believe him... And he may walk because of all the above...
But I could be wrong?!
IKON
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Do you think that shooting a looter is using excessive force?
Its murder. So I guess the question should be is it ok to murder someone.
I was in keywest when I was 17(streethippie runaway)
we heard about Eloise hittin panamacity
we went there. The first night there we loaded our hotel up with cases 20 or 30 of beer we found liquer too a whole cabinetful
next day we found stores knocked over and we loaded cases of canned goods into the hotel room
we worked there4 months, roofing constrution, we found clothes, money in cash registers, reefer.... u name it.
I look back and yes it was looting, not from folks homes just up and down the beachs from stores bars clothing outlets...
Glad I didnt get shot.
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Originally posted by X2Lee
we worked there4 months, roofing constrution, we found clothes, money in cash registers, reefer.... u name it.
I look back and yes it was looting, not from folks homes just up and down the beachs from stores bars clothing outlets...
Glad I didnt get shot.
You ever put you bellybutton on the line and own a business? You ever spend your last $100 for inventory?
I have!
Plus, I would not hesitate to shoot your bellybutton stealing my last chance for my economic survival. The thin blue line was absent and you’re an example why bullets shouldn’t be taxed.
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Originally posted by Ozark
You ever put you bellybutton on the line and own a business? You ever spend your last $100 for inventory?
I have!
Plus, I would not hesitate to shoot your bellybutton stealing my last chance for my economic survival. The thin blue line was absent and you’re an example why bullets shouldn’t be taxed.
I would shoot him for stealing the reefer!
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Originally posted by Ozark
You ever put you bellybutton on the line and own a business? You ever spend your last $100 for inventory?
I have!
Plus, I would not hesitate to shoot your bellybutton stealing my last chance for my economic survival. The thin blue line was absent and you’re an example why bullets shouldn’t be taxed.
the stuff was sling up and down the beach dood and yes I hav ebeen in business for 30 years now. If you would shoot a teenage boy for what I done you need to question your morals
And if you dont have insurance u dont know squat bout business
And If you could shoot a teenager for picking up stuff of the bech U aint much of a man. Get a grip.
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I wouldn't shoot to kill, but I'd shoot them so they won't forget it..
Kneecap, Leg, Arm, etc.
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Get a grip?
You take item that don't belong to you and justify it?
Your just a lowlife criminal!
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Originally posted by Hawklore
I wouldn't shoot to kill, but I'd shoot them so they won't forget it..
Kneecap, Leg, Arm, etc.
People place to much value on material possesions and not enough value on human life, its the way of the perverted world we live in, how would you feel if you missed and killed the person hawklore? would you just justify it in your mind as he had it coming or would you carry the scar of murdering a fellow human the rest of your life? You wont know till you face that situation and I pray you never have to. You are young and brash but the things you do in life you will never forget. and all things have consequences that you wont realize until later.
Give it a think...
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Originally posted by Ozark
Get a grip?
You take item that don't belong to you and justify it?
Your just a lowlife criminal!
I didnt say I wasnt, I also said it was 31 years ago and I was a street urchin who barly had food to eat, I didnt try to justify it. I was pointing out that we all do things in life that are wrong and
killing someone for something like stealing would make you more evil thast the thief.
You know people grow up and realize that they did wrong.
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During the aftermath of Hurricane Andrew there was so much looting going on in certain communities that they had to mobilize the National Guard to prevent bloodshed. I live in Northwest Dade County so the effects of that storm were negligible here. The Town of Florida City which was hardest hit is a poverty level Hispanic and Black area. Lootings were rampant and so were the subsequent shootings. If the damage had occured in my neighborhood I doubt we would have suffered any looting. I would however be hanging out in my driveway with a shotgun and a case of rifled slugs. I doubt anyone would loot in my presence. Most of my neighbors would be doing the same I'm sure. I don't recall any prosecutions resulting from the many shootings in that area during that time.
Would I shoot to protect property? Probably not. I would shoot if I felt endangered. I would not flee in the presence of thugs though. Tough call, good question Ripsnort.
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Originally posted by Hawklore
I wouldn't shoot to kill, but I'd shoot them so they won't forget it..
Kneecap, Leg, Arm, etc.
I doubt that you could place a round into a person at 25 meters while under pressure. I bet you couldn't do it at 10 meters either. You are watching way too many Vin Diesel movies. I would think a hit in the arm is more of an accident than a well placed shot.
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GEES any thing else??
If you were picking up things on the beach in a parking lot whatever that is called salvage and is legal.
If a looter went in to a store or house to steal something, then yes you could and maybe should shoot the perp. depending on a coulple of things.
But never never shoot to wound,I you succeed you will in this country be sued and be paying for a long time along with losing everything you own...Like I said a country that loses it moral compass will always care more for the crimanial than the victim.
Dont believe me ,try it.
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If you shoot them and leave their bodies in the street it provides 'negative reinforcement' for those that will follow.
Provided of course that the ones that follow have IQ's larger than there belt size.
As you can see, this approach wouldn't have worked in Los Angles or any other major US city.
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What are the gun laws like in Floriduh?
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They gotta get by the wife first !!!!!!
if they do that they can have everything :D
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Kill em all!
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
What are the gun laws like in Floriduh?
Whats with the spelling of FLORIDA?
You have a problem with Floridians?
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Originally posted by Coolridr
Whats with the spelling of FLORIDA?
You have a problem with Floridians?
Stop joking... everyone knows that its spelled Floriduh.
Now do you have an answer to my question or not?
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The gun laws are like most other states..the perpetrator must be inside your house.....but if your house is blown all over the yard....could someone be considered to be in it?
If your attack on the intelligence of my home state has anything to do with the stupid people that couldn't operate the voting machines in 2000...just remember most of 'em were retired yankees residing in south Florida, and not true Floridians.
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I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger. If the person knows he's doing something wrong, he wouldn't be there.
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>>Do you think that shooting a looter is using excessive force? <<
I do, and I wouldn't. But you'll never convince the people who would, not to. Individuals value life differently.
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Originally posted by Coolridr
The gun laws are like most other states..the perpetrator must be inside your house.....but if your house is blown all over the yard....could someone be considered to be in it?
If your attack on the intelligence of my home state has anything to do with the stupid people that couldn't operate the voting machines in 2000...just remember most of 'em were retired yankees residing in south Florida, and not true Floridians.
Ok - how about CCW's? Could a 'Floridian' (as you spell it... still think its wrong) obtain a carry permit with a reasonable amount of effort or would he have to jump through hoops?
-Looking at a job in the West Palm area. I want to live there, so I can make fun all I like... Yankee or not. ;)
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Originally posted by demaw1
GEES any thing else??
If you were picking up things on the beach in a parking lot whatever that is called salvage and is legal.
If a looter went in to a store or house to steal something, then yes you could and maybe should shoot the perp. depending on a coulple of things.
.
You may well be right, but my point remains the same
Taking someones life for taking a possesion.possesions
Makes you worse tham a thief it makes yoiu a murderer
Life is way undervalued in todays society and that where
our downfall lies.
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X2Lee - for me you make the typical criminal excuse "it's only possesions and therefore less valuable than my human life if I'm taking them"
Well some peoples possesions mean a lot more to some people than your life - for instance you try to steal my uncle's war medals and you are worth less to me than a sewer rat. You may get a few quid in a second hand shop for them to feed your sorry bellybutton but to me they are irreplaceable. If my life is scattered over my yard then I think I have the right to defend it - worthless pictures and cheap jewelry to you but priceless memories of family and friends to me.
I have a particularly "right wing" view on theft having been burgaled myself and having had my seen the effect on my widowed grandmother having her wedding ring and other gifts from my grandfather stolen by a teenager wanting easy cash. If you take someones possesions from their property - whether it be the house or the remains of a house - knowing it's not yours to take then you accept the risk of that action and if you get shot in the process - oh well the risk didn't pay off.
Life is way undervalued in todays society and that where
our downfall lies.
No X2Lee - people who lead a good life are undervalued in todays society - THAT is where our downfall lies. In a society where there is no law life has no value. The laws we create to live in the society we create give people lives some protection however the scumbag lowlifes who neither want to work nor respect their fellow citizens now bask in the protection that they have a "right" to live like that. It's bull ............
Respect me and my life and I'll respect you and yours.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Ok - how about CCW's? Could a 'Floridian' (as you spell it... still think its wrong) obtain a carry permit with a reasonable amount of effort or would he have to jump through hoops?
-Looking at a job in the West Palm area. I want to live there, so I can make fun all I like... Yankee or not. ;)
Just what we need, another yankee that will require driving lessons. These are some basic rules which may be helpful.
Rule #1. Remove all mirrors from your car they are useless. No one bothers with them here. If you want to make a turn do not I repeat DO NOT use your turn indicator. You will be stuck in that same lane until you hit Savanah Ga. or U.S.1 in Coconut Grove. If you end up in the Grove all bets are off, may God have mercy on your soul.
Rule#2. Those signs you see that say 55 are a suggestion. We like the Red and Blue ones that say 95 better. If you get a citation just explain that you weren't going to be on the road for an hour only a 1/2 hour eg. the speed is rightly 110.
Rule#3. A sure way to get rear ended and subsequently your arse kicked is to stop at stop signs. RRRRRRRoll your stops signs.
Rule#4. Pedestrians are fair game. If they venture into your turf clip em. You will earn extra points if you can prove they are NY Yankees fans.
Rule#5 Learn non verbal communications. This skill is a must. ..!..
Oh er drive safely. Wear your seat belts. Buckle up.
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Looting is a disgusting practice. Be tough for me to shoot anyone though. I think standing or sitting in front of my house with my trusty 9-iron would be sufficient to discourage anyone looting my house. Fortunately it is unlikely in the extreme that any looters would be armed with guns.
If I lived in Florida though I'd be armed to the teeth to defend my property simply because it is LIKEY in the extreme that those same looters would indeed be armed too.
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Originally posted by Sparks
X2Lee - for me you make the typical criminal excuse "it's only possesions and therefore less valuable than my human life if I'm taking them"
Well some peoples possesions mean a lot more to some people than your life - for instance you try to steal my uncle's war medals and you are worth less to me than a sewer rat. You may get a few quid in a second hand shop for them to feed your sorry bellybutton but to me they are irreplaceable. If my life is scattered over my yard then I think I have the right to defend it - worthless pictures and cheap jewelry to you but priceless memories of family and friends to me.
I have a particularly "right wing" view on theft having been burgaled myself and having had my seen the effect on my widowed grandmother having her wedding ring and other gifts from my grandfather stolen by a teenager wanting easy cash. If you take someones possesions from their property - whether it be the house or the remains of a house - knowing it's not yours to take then you accept the risk of that action and if you get shot in the process - oh well the risk didn't pay off.
No X2Lee - people who lead a good life are undervalued in todays society - THAT is where our downfall lies. In a society where there is no law life has no value. The laws we create to live in the society we create give people lives some protection however the scumbag lowlifes who neither want to work nor respect their fellow citizens now bask in the protection that they have a "right" to live like that. It's bull ............
Respect me and my life and I'll respect you and yours.
Very well said Sir! Would you give a warning?
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Is the looter a Democrat or a Republican?
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Originally posted by Westy
Is the looter a Democrat or a Republican?
you want percentages??? LOL
shoot them right btwn the eyes - no wasted medical or court costs...
after about the third publized shooting - looting would stop
slap their wrists and they'll return with their buddies
saw a sign that stated it well painted on the side of a damaged home:
"U Loot - U Die"
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Originally posted by Westy
Is the looter a Democrat or a Republican?
Obviously democrat if they stealing from you (taxes) :D
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Originally posted by DJ111
(http://www.people.virginia.edu/~mmh9a/pics/funny/trespasser.jpg)
LOL wallpaper for computer desktop material , love it ;)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Do you think that shooting a looter is using excessive force?
I dont know If I could use lethal force, but I wouldn't have any problem beating them with whatever is handy.
After a Hurricane has destroyed your home, could you even find your guns?
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I'm pretty sure that if my house was leveled/damaged by a hurricane,entering it with the intention of removing valuables would NOT be a wise decision.
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Originally posted by storch
Just what we need, another yankee that will require driving lessons. These are some basic rules which may be helpful.
Rule #1. Remove all mirrors from your car they are useless. No one bothers with them here. If you want to make a turn do not I repeat DO NOT use your turn indicator. You will be stuck in that same lane until you hit Savanah Ga. or U.S.1 in Coconut Grove. If you end up in the Grove all bets are off, may God have mercy on your soul.
Rule#2. Those signs you see that say 55 are a suggestion. We like the Red and Blue ones that say 95 better. If you get a citation just explain that you weren't going to be on the road for an hour only a 1/2 hour eg. the speed is rightly 110.
Rule#3. A sure way to get rear ended and subsequently your arse kicked is to stop at stop signs. RRRRRRRoll your stops signs.
Rule#4. Pedestrians are fair game. If they venture into your turf clip em. You will earn extra points if you can prove they are NY Yankees fans.
Rule#5 Learn non verbal communications. This skill is a must. ..!..
Oh er drive safely. Wear your seat belts. Buckle up.
Oh hell... if you can drive in Philadelphia, you can drive anywhere. Worst drivers and the worst roads in the country.
Aint all that different from Florida - youve got the highest number of grey hairs and PA's got the second highest so Im used to being stuck behind a maroon Grand Marquis going 45MPH in the passing lane. You lucky bastards just have palm trees and thongs.
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After Frederick hit Mobile in '79, the National Guard was called out and a curfew was in effect. The city was under martial law for a short while. The National Guard had orders to shoot to kill looters.
The damage in Florida looks worse than what Frederick did, but both Charley and Frederick were Cat 4 hurricanes. Mobile has barrier islands which slowed Fred down a bit (115 MPH sustained winds with 160 top wind recorded.) It was like a million tornados, not any rain, just wind. It looked like an A bomb had gone off here.
I know some shop owners who went downtown and protected their business with shotguns. They ran some looters off but didn't shoot them.
Some of the biggest looters were "carpetbaggers" bringing in ice and selling it for $10 a bag, 'til the National Guard confiscated their trucks and gave the ice away.
Les
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"murder"... That's defined as killing someone who you shouldn't have killed, according to a set of laws.
In some cases, it's ok to kill someone. Those situations have legal definitions and juries are explicitly allowed to authorize a "justified killing" at their discretion even when the law doesn't specifically allow it in that situation. All they have to do is return a "not guilty" verdict, and it's based on the "reasonable person" principle.
FWIW, $.01 is enough in my book. Looters are parasites no matter how you cut it, and parasites need killing, period. Even "varmints" have a position in ecological cycles, but human parasites do nothing but drag everyone else down. I'm unable to feel sorry for the parasite any more than I'm able to feel sorry for killing a mosquito that's sucking blood out of my arm.
And NEVER just try to wound someone if you have to shoot them. That just gives them a chance to sue you. If you kill them, their family can sue for wrongful death but not for other intangibles like pain and suffering. If you're gonna shoot them, you sure as hell better kill them or your life is going to be hell fighting the endless lawsuits. A crippled criminal gets far more sympathy from a jury than the family of a criminal who is trying to get paid because their scumbag relative got shot stealing. Any gun owner in California should know this rule cold because juries in california are screwy that way. Someone falls through your skylight at midnight? If they live to walk out the door, you're liable for them busting their bellybutton falling through your ceiling. But if you shoot them dead, it's a justifiable shooting in self defense and there won't be a lawsuit.
Sure, flame away, but it's the cold hard truth. Sorry if you don't like it.
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I would shoot to wound...Pinky finger, big toe, appendix.
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LMFAO..i didnt read all theses posts..the first one was good enough..
"tell them i had a flash back"..lololol
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I'd take the lawsuit rather than killing someone if I didn't have to.
Interesting point though. No one really knows what they would do, and I speak for myself when I say I wouldn't be thinking about lawsuits if I had to do something.
Thing is, dedicated looters might come back if you don't keep a constant vigil. Maybe at night time when it's hard to see. That's why the disaster area in Florida will have military units patrolling the streets after curfew.
Les
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Hey listen Floriduhians...
How soon can things be expected to return to normal down there?
Im trying to get in touch with people in Fort Myers and West Palm Beach... but to no avail.
The FM people I can understand being out of the office, but the WPB people should be working again... right?
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Originally posted by Thrawn
I would shoot to wound...Pinky finger, big toe, appendix.
Thrawn, that's a noble ideal. But, if you don't kill them they're going to sue. Think about it....
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Hey listen Floriduhians...
How soon can things be expected to return to normal down there?
Im trying to get in touch with people in Fort Myers and West Palm Beach... but to no avail.
The FM people I can understand being out of the office, but the WPB people should be working again... right?
Normal? Florida Normal? Not in our lifetimes. Just never as abnormal as The People's Republics of Kalifornica, Newt Iork or Mass a chew sits.
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It might be hard to really know who is a "looter' and who is not. I saw the news today and some 78 yo woman has no family, and needs help. IF she got help ( someone that the neighbors don't know) and they helped her look for some of her items that are blown across 3 cities and YOUR YARD, It would be a really tough call.
NUTTZ
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Originally posted by NUTTZ
It might be hard to really know who is a "looter' and who is not. I saw the news today and some 78 yo woman has no family, and needs help. IF she got help ( someone that the neighbors don't know) and they helped her look for some of her items that are blown across 3 cities and YOUR YARD, It would be a really tough call.
NUTTZ
The stuff we picked up was on the beach I am sure it belonged to some of the 30 odd bars that were totally destroyed by Eloise
but I guess I coulda got shoot by some irate bar owner who felt shooting kids was kosher if they toted off some floating beers...
Nice to know who the murdering bastages are tho ;->
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Originally posted by Leslie
Some of the biggest looters were "carpetbaggers" bringing in ice and selling it for $10 a bag, 'til the National Guard confiscated their trucks and gave the ice away.
Freaking commies.
"Thrawn, that's a noble ideal. But, if you don't kill them they're going to sue. Think about it...."
Maybe they will, but tort law is very different here in Canada. I would rather have to go through a lawsuit than judge and execute someone for the crime of stealing some stuff. I imagine just showing off a firearm would do the trick anyway.
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If it was Alabama rednecks it would.:D
Les
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Looters???
Shoot them all, Let GOD sort them out!!!
God Bless America and pass up the ammo Maggie.
MacMAW