Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: yipi on March 09, 2019, 06:24:38 PM
-
Just got the Kosmosim handle to use on my Gunfighter. Ordered the Pro which has the optional POV hat to replace the Mini Stick button on the upper left. It was kinda of a hassle to install it because you have take everything out of the stick to get it on. I Like it better than the MCG because its shorter and I like the POV hat contact buttons instead of the non-contact on the MCG. I would like to get one for my Gladiator Pro but its the first model with 5 pins and they don't have one for it. My Gladiator is smoother than my Gunfighter. I would recommend the Kosmosim handle if you can get one.
-
I ordered the whole Kosmosim Gunfighter stick a couple days ago, I was lucky I was up at 3am when VKB sent out the email that they were in stock, by 8am they were all gone as per usual.
What you're describing is what I'm looking forward to trying out, especially the shorter grip.
-
I am using the no detent cams and found that the 30 springs for the up down motion was the minimum I could use without it wandering. I am using the 20 for left right motion. I didn't install the thumb optional button but I am thinking of putting it on the 4 way doesn't always work right. The video of the install for the optional POV upper left had is outdated you will notice the 3 springs they take our aren't there for the Hats but they said they are using Silicone toggles so you don't need em. I like it a lot better than the MCG. Be prepared to take a while to install the optional POV was nerve racking didn't think the stick would work after I did it lol
-
I have 2 Gunfigher table top pro revBs and it's the same story with the springs with them, the lightest springs make it even lighter than a CH stick, about 1/2 in fact IMO. I figured the Space stick would have the same spring tensions.
-
How do you like the SCG compared to the MCG?
-
I have a VKB Gunfighter Mk.II with the complete Mk.III upgrade kit. I have the VKB MCG Pro, SCG Pro, and KG12 grips. I have also adapted my TM Warthog and F/A-18C grips to work with the Gunfighter. I swap grips periodically depending on which aircraft I am flying in DCS World.
The MCG Pro is the most capable stick with so many features that allow it to model the features of almost any aircraft stick grip, usually with buttons/hats/axes to spare. I like that its controls model the modern Russian grips, but it is a large grip and the controls can be difficult to reach/operate without shifting your hand up or down a little.
The SCG Pro doesn't have quite as many buttons/axes as the MCG Pro, principally because it has a single button on the right side instead of a pov hat. But it is sized / shaped / arranged to be more like US aircraft grips. Unless you need the brake lever axis or one more POV hat, the SCG Pro is a very good choice for comfort and functionality.
The TM F/A-18C grip has no axes and a few less buttons/triggers, but is otherwise as comfortable and effective as the SCG Pro. Because it is an accurate shape/arrangement for the F-15C, F/A-18C, and AV-8B as well as being reasonably sized/shaped to substitute for the B-8 grip common to so many US aircraft it is my go-to grip for flying US aircraft. The form / function of the SCG Pro vs the F/A-18C grip is so close, that it is a matter of personal preference, and I prefer the look and feel of the F/A-18C for many aircraft.
The KG12 is cool for flying Luftwaffe, but it was not designed very well compared to the later VKB grips. The POV had doesn't have a center-press function. Unlike the MCG Pro, there is no means for sims to know the position of the flip-down trigger. But it is cool to have the grip feel like what you see in VR, so it was worth it to me unless a better KG12 grip becomes available.
The TM Warthog grip is the one I use the least. It is only accurate for the A-10C and F-16C. It is a good stand-in for the B-8 grip in terms of buttons/trigger/trim hat, but unlike the real B-8 and the TM F/A-18C grip, I find its angular, squared off grip shape is the least comfortable. I know a lot of people like the feel of the cold metal, but I prefer the "warmth" of the plastic grips, which coincides with the material and feel of real grips.
So if you are going for pure capability and flexibility, the MCG Pro is the way to go. For a balance between functionality, comfort, arrangement, etc., the SCG Pro is probably a better choice.
-
Thanks for the write up. I think I'll get the SCG.
If you put the warthog stick on the gunfighter base does that mess with the feel since I believe it's a heavier grip?
-
Thanks for the write up. I think I'll get the SCG.
If you put the warthog stick on the gunfighter base does that mess with the feel since I believe it's a heavier grip?
With the #50 springs and the latest aviator cams that came with the MkIII upgrade, the warthog grip's weight doesn't pose much of a problem even with the 20cm curved extension. It does make it feel smoother/easier to move than with the lighter all-plastic grips. But it has no problems centering. You can feel more of a difference depending on whether you use a straight extension or a curved extension. VKB offers a 10cm straight and the Pro comes with the 20cm curved. I prefer straight for my installation that was designed to replicate the geometry of an F-4 cockpit seat/stick/throttle arrangement. I just need a 15 to 17 cm extension to get the various grips at the right height compared to my real F-4 stick's range of motion in the pitch axis and height. I have aluminum tubing that will be perfect once it is cut to the right height and has the holes needed to screw in the ends from the 20cm extension.
-
With the #50 springs and the latest aviator cams that came with the MkIII upgrade, the warthog grip's weight doesn't pose much of a problem even with the 20cm curved extension. It does make it feel smoother/easier to move than with the lighter all-plastic grips. But it has no problems centering. You can feel more of a difference depending on whether you use a straight extension or a curved extension. VKB offers a 10cm straight and the Pro comes with the 20cm curved. I prefer straight for my installation that was designed to replicate the geometry of an F-4 cockpit seat/stick/throttle arrangement. I just need a 15 to 17 cm extension to get the various grips at the right height compared to my real F-4 stick's range of motion in the pitch axis and height. I have aluminum tubing that will be perfect once it is cut to the right height and has the holes needed to screw in the ends from the 20cm extension.
You should post a picture of that setup!
-
Just setup te SCG (tabletop) .. playing with springs and cams. What do you guys use? I tried the 30 springs but found it too heavy and went back to the 20s. Also thinking about experimenting with the linear cams
-
I have the original #10 cams with one set of #30 springs on mine with MCG-Pro. I have the GF3 upgrade kit arriving this week so I'll be experimenting with the new cams springs. I'll let ya know how it goes.
The stronger springs take some getting used to especially after years of the CH fighterstick with next to no tension at all. But it's so light it never had any problems centering. I tried the GF with the lightest springs and found it just didn't want to center. I gotta say I have to wonder about the longevity of the gimbal, sturdy as it is, with these guys that put a pair of the strongest springs with an extension on the grip. But I haven't seen many reports of bent posts! The single 30 is about all the tension I like and feel safe about.
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
-
The 30 springs seemed too stiff. Went back to 20s for now but will see how I like it. Also am trying the space cams as I think I prefer the linear feel, especially in roll
-
You should post a picture of that setup!
I originally built the left console with the throttle and the quasi-replica F-4 ejection seat to match my real F-4 stick.
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=396437.0;attach=32251)
But I was using a linear pot for pitch input, and it got to be high maintenance needing to be cleaned with alcohol at least once a day. So, I replaced the F-4 stick/grip combo with the Warthog stick with a 15 cm extension. I also had Saitek pedals that I have had forever.
I decided to try the VKB Gunfighter II with the MCG Pro grip and loved it, so that replaced the Warthog stick.
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=396437.0;attach=32247)
I also added a "co-pilot".
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=396437.0;attach=32249)
I also decided to get the Thrustmaster TPR pedals that are very close to F-4 Phantom pedals. Along they way, I adapted my Thrustmaster Warthog grip and the F/A-18C grip to work on the VKB Gunfighter 2 base (recently updated to Gunfighter 3 standards). I now have every grip that can be adapted to the VKB Gunfighter, including the SCG Pro... which brings me back to the original topic after drifting way, way off.
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=396437.0;attach=32253)
-
I'm pretty sure I love and hate you at the same time. It's exhilaratingly confusing. :joystick: :O :uhoh :old:
-
Nice setup Streakeagle!
-
For the record, the Kosmosima SCG Pro has more controls than any of the other grips except for the MCG Pro. Yet the arrangement of the hats/switches is very similar to all of the other US teen fighter grips, so you can emulate their control options and still have some hats and switches leftover for other functions, plus the bonus twist axis if you need it. It is a very comfortable grip, more than the MCG Pro whose controls are almost too far apart to be easily reached without adjusting your hand up or down. Despite liking the SCG Pro quite a bit, I usually use the MCG Pro for flying Russian jets and the other grips for their associated jets (A-10C/F-16, F/A-18C/F-15C/AV-B, F-14). So that leaves the SCG Pro unused most of the time.
-
Replacing my MCG Pro with the SCG Premier Pro, should be arriving very soon along with new computer.
-
Replacing my MCG Pro with the SCG Premier Pro, should be arriving very soon along with new computer.
So far I'm liking the SCG pro. Looking back the regular SCG would have been just as good for me.
-
So far I'm liking the SCG pro. Looking back the regular SCG would have been just as good for me.
The SCG Pro has a key feature that makes it a lot better for me: the hat switch on the lower left side of the grip. If you fly jets, a lot of sticks have at least a fwd, aft, and center depress button in that position. The left and right positions become bonus buttons. I bought the non-Pro version because I intend to gut it to allow me to adapt a real B-8 grip into a VKB compatible grip. But I liked it so much, I bought the pro to get the full functionality I would need to mimic grips like the F-5E, which is a lot like a B-8, but with the fwd/ctr depress/aft switch for selecting air-to-air radar lockon modes. But I tend to use the F/A-18 grip or the F-14 grip for US aircraft or the MCG Pro grip as a universal grip for all aircraft, so both my SCG and SCG Pro are collecting dust for the moment.
-
Curiously what might you guess what you would have invested?
-
Streakeagle I like the setup with the floppy ears and 2 green leds best. Keep the feet warm on those long bomber runs. :salute
-
Curiously what might you guess what you would have invested?
I have a good memory and if that failed, I have all of my online orders documented in my email account. But I don't really want to think about it. The money was spread over a lot of years. Since 2008, I have had a job that has an hourly wage and I get paid time and half for overtime. So, I usually pace my purchases to match my overtime, typically getting things like a new gpu. Some of the most expensive stuff I have is the real F-4 Phantom hardware and the seat/console I built around that hardware. I have two real B-8 grips and they were $500 each. I have the real stick for $500 that matches the connector on one of the grips (which is the reason I bought a 2nd grip, to get the correct milspec multipin adapter). Ejection seat hardware is very expensive and a real complete seat is very heavy, too. So, I built one around some real components: survival pack/lower seat cushion, lumbar back pad, parachute pack/headrest, and the metal backplate that holds parachute pack and supports lumbar pad. Each one of those items is about $100 minimum. I didn't go cheap on the seat or console either. The wood is very good wood and I used a ton of screws. I wanted this thing to be sturdy and survive years of climbing in and out of it. So far, it has held up well. Probably somewhere between $300 and $600 in the wood and hardware.
Recently, I decided to commit to the throttle levers and surrounding panels, which are available from the same place I got most of my ejection seat hardware: https://www.flighthelmet.com/ I was in the process of trying to build a fully functional throttle quadrant around the throttle levers when I stumbled on to an F-101 Voodoo throttle quadrant on eBay for an exceptionally low price compared to the very scarce F-4 throttles (been searching for years!). I immediately recognized that it was almost identical to the F-4's throttle, so I bought it. The levers fit perfectly. The mechanical operation is almost identical and with a small, non-damaging modification, I am going to make it virtually identical.
In order to keep flying while working on the console, I got the WinWing Hornet HOTAS that has desk mounts. My Warthog throttle will be integrated into the F-4 throttle operation. In the mean time, my console has been replaced by the desk clamp Hornet throttle with the surrounding panels. Covid-19 plus bad weather gave me a ton of overtime and the Hornet HOTAS ate a big chunk of it. But now I am still flying every night AND moving forward on my F-4 throttle project. I intend to restore the real F-4 stick to operation to go with the throttle. So, I will have a desk-clamp setup for routine flying (especially more modern aircraft) and my F-4 console/chair/stick for flying F-4s and any aircraft old enough to have similar or less controls. For now, both will use the same computer, tv monitor, and VR headset. But eventually, I will make the F-4 setup with a full main control panel with its own PC, TV, and VR headset... but that is probably at least a year or two away. Everything I have done was spread out over a lot of years.
The VKB stick base and associated grips will remain the heart of my desk system matched with the WinWing throttle/startup panel. But the F-4 project will get a Warthog throttle and stick base with some creative modifications to interface with the real hardware. If DCS World ever gets around to finishing and releasing the F-4E Belsimtek started before ED hijacked them into the current development cycle, I will go full tilt to get the F-4 pit as complete as possible fabricating reasonable substitutes for anything I can't find or afford to buy. A real control panel is out of the question... but a lookalike backed by LCD screens is on the table.
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=396437.0;attach=32492)
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=396437.0;attach=32494)
-
Wow. (Not wordy but it sums up my reaction in a positive way.) :cheers:
-
MAny Thanks SreikeEagle. I would assume the marrying of all the different systems would be a real challenge.
-
Wow. (Not wordy but it sums up my reaction in a positive way.) :cheers:
+1, I've been looking through flighthelmet dot com and other sites with used and/or decomissioned hotas/instruments/etc for the last hour myself.
-
DHL just showed up, and delivered my stronghold for my stick. For some reason the stick is held up in Cincinnati. I’m basically in Houston.
-
+1, I've been looking through flighthelmet dot com and other sites with used and/or decomissioned hotas/instruments/etc for the last hour myself.
Wow. Pricey stuff! If only I held on to the helmet and mask I had in my youth.
(https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/0113/31/vintage-1950s-msa-s-navy-pilot-helmet_1_e4283153099cecb10f3cd39a98d76214.jpg)
-
DHL just showed up, and delivered my stronghold for my stick. For some reason the stick is held up in Cincinnati. I’m basically in Houston.
That sucks! Originally, VKB stuff was hard to catch in stock and usually took awhile to get here. But my lately, they have been keeping stock pretty much topped off and delivering very quickly.
-
Wow. Pricey stuff! If only I held on to the helmet and mask I had in my youth.
(https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/0113/31/vintage-1950s-msa-s-navy-pilot-helmet_1_e4283153099cecb10f3cd39a98d76214.jpg)
I remember all the vietnam era stuff that used to be at the flea market and army surplus store for practically nothing. Over time, the supply has gotten smaller and the demand has gotten higher, mix in using the internet to reach a global market such as eBay and you get those high prices :(
Recently, an old Vietnam era F-4 pilot had died and the family was selling off all of his flight gear: helmet, boots, flight suit, gloves. It was at a really good price, too. I was tempted. But the money was better saved for later so I could jump on the F-101 throttle when it popped up and later get the WinWing hotas. But a having a dummy dressed up as a real Vietnam F-4 pilot would be cool. If the helmet actually fit me, that would be even better.
-
That sucks! Originally, VKB stuff was hard to catch in stock and usually took awhile to get here. But my lately, they have been keeping stock pretty much topped off and delivering very quickly.
After my mistake, VKB is sending me the correct handle. They shipped it on Friday and just got an update the handle will arrive on Thursday.
-
I hope you enjoy it. It fits my hand extremely well. It is a very comfortable and capable grip. I don't have any need for the twist axis, so I have programmed all of my grips to use it as two-stage triggers in either direction. .i.e. if you turn it a little to the left, you hit one button, then all the way left is another button. I programmed the buttons at full left and full right to repeat. I use this setup to page through the kneeboards in DCS. I can flip real fast or bump one page at a time in either direction.