Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: davidpt40 on January 14, 2020, 07:15:24 PM
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https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51058929
In one exchange in April 2017, an unnamed employee wrote: "This airplane is designed by clowns who in turn are supervised by monkeys."
The documents also showed Boeing planning to push back against requirements that 737 Max pilots receive training on simulators, which would have led to higher costs for its customers, making its aircraft less attractive.
"I want to stress the importance of holding firm that there will not be any type of simulator training required to transition from NG to Max," Boeing's 737 chief technical pilot at the time, Mark Forkner, said in a March 2017 email.
In February 2018, a Boeing worker asked a colleague: "Would you put your family on a Max simulator-trained aircraft? I wouldn't."
"No," came the reply.
Also, any quote by the alleged pilot Vrcaiu will go into the clown quotes too.
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So anyone that disagrees with what you say will be considered clown quotes?
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Just let this thread die of its own accord, people.
No sense responding to people who are trolling you...
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Got to admit, you guys are ballsy.
This topic was LOCKED, yet you just create another one. (like many others)
Coogan
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Got to admit, you guys are ballsy.
This topic was LOCKED, yet you just create another one. (like many others)
Coogan
Are you the BBS Police or something? Asking for a friend. :salute
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Are you the BBS Police or something? Asking for a friend. :salute
Keep on being you. :aok
Coogan
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Keep on being you. :aok
Coogan
You do the same! :aok :cheers: :banana:
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hate to say i told you so, but i told you so.
semp
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https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51058929
Also, any quote by the alleged pilot Vrcaiu will go into the clown quotes too.
I will take a pilot's quote over some so called journalist quote any day.
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I will take a pilot's quote over some so called journalist quote any day.
Thanks. Cheers, bruh. :cheers: :salute
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So anyone that disagrees with what you say will be considered clown quotes?
Meh, just a person stirring the pot. I wouldn't bother wasting your time. :salute
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Also, any quote by the alleged pilot Vrcaiu will go into the clown quotes too.
There's nothing "alleged" about Vrcaiu's logbook. He's an aviator, in the best sense of that word. I have met him, I know where he works and what he does.
So...guess we do know who the clown is.
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There's nothing "alleged" about Vrcaiu's logbook. He's an aviator, in the best sense of that word. I have met him, I know where he works and what he does.
So...guess we do know who the clown is.
dude, why you stalking vracui, i mean he uses a1 sauce but there's weird people like that.
semp
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dude, why you stalking vracui, i mean he uses a1 sauce but there's weird people like that.
semp
:rofl
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I will take a pilot's quote over some so called journalist quote any day.
they're quoting Boeing employees memos released by Boeing.
i don't know vraciu and i have no reason to question his past training or experience same for everyone else, except for demonslayer, but that's different.
but I've seen this before. same attitude.
semp
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Anyone want to bet on how many pages this one will go before getting locked? Asking for a couple of friends. :D
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dude, why you stalking vracui, i mean he uses a1 sauce but there's weird people like that.
semp
:rofl :aok :cheers:
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What the original poster should of said is...
I don't get it. The MAX, which crashed twice because of incompetent pilots, gets roasted by jaded employees (cause they're always a reliable source for accuracy on the quality of a product), blamed on a new system (the basis of which have part of the aircraft avionics systems for over 3 decades), is now considered an unsafe aircraft because Boeing tried to make the training cheaper for buyers?
And no other aircraft manufacturer has ever done something similar for other variant introductions?
This B.S. just boggles my mind. :headscratch:
And anything said on avionics by Vraciu should be taken with the highest and upmost regard, along with Puma, both considered experts in their field.
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There's nothing "alleged" about Vrcaiu's logbook. He's an aviator, in the best sense of that word. I have met him, I know where he works and what he does.
So...guess we do know who the clown is.
Thank you, sir. You are the real deal and I appreciate the support. :salute
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they're quoting Boeing employees memos released by Boeing.
i don't know vraciu and i have no reason to question his past training or experience same for everyone else, except for demonslayer, but that's different.
but I've seen this before. same attitude.
semp
Lol! Poor Violator. :cheers:
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I don't get it. The MAX, which crashed twice because of incompetent pilots, gets roasted by jaded employees (cause they're always a reliable source for accuracy on the quality of a product), blamed on a new system (the basis of which have part of the aircraft avionics systems for over 3 decades), is now considered an unsafe aircraft because Boeing tried to make the training cheaper for buyers?
And no other aircraft manufacturer has ever done something similar for other variant introductions?
This B.S. just boggles my mind. And of course, the 'clown' comment comes from a country that is pro-Airbus and is picked up by all 'pro-Airbus' news agencies first... :headscratch:
Possible that these “jaded employees”, are non pilots, buried in the bureaucracy of Boeing, POed about management, and lashing out to make some sort of a point.
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Possible that these “jaded employees”, are non pilots, buried in the bureaucracy of Boeing, POed about management, and lashing out to make some sort of a point.
They sound like a bunch of know-nothing teenagers.
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They sound like a bunch of know-nothing teenagers.
Anyone in the aviation industry that allows subpar maintenance to walk is scum. They are usually jelly fish and yes men looking for any bite they can for a promotion. The problem is to many of them are management now and directly affect their areas with "the little man syndrome". Attitude almost always reflects leadership.
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Last night my wife was checking on flights to England (from US) for the end of February.
In our family, she is the only one who ever books flights. (Not sure when that became the rule, it just did and everyone always been OK with it.)
As she was checking on flights, she kept asking me my thoughts on one Boeing plane after another as she looked up flight details…
I think that she is going to go with Aer Lingus – on I think an A320 (which will mean a stopover in Ireland). :uhoh
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Anyone in the aviation industry that allows subpar maintenance to walk is scum. They are usually jelly fish and yes men looking for any bite they can for a promotion. The problem is to many of them are management now and directly affect their areas with "the little man syndrome". Attitude almost always reflects leadership.
The Peter Principle in play. All to common in corporate and military bureaucracies.
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they're quoting Boeing employees memos released by Boeing.
i don't know vraciu and i have no reason to question his past training or experience same for everyone else, except for demonslayer, but that's different.
but I've seen this before. same attitude.
semp
An employee or two. Does not say current employee or even if they have proof they are/were an employee.
Does not say if they are a pilot or cleaned the restrooms.
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The Peter Principle in play. All to common in corporate and military bureaucracies.
Agreed, especially in airlines.
I wonder quite often why the days of employers/bosses/managers etc. valuing their employees as the company's most valuable asset, has passed. Seems confrontation with workers no matter what they do, is the rule of the day. Thank you HR.
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An employee or two. Does not say current employee or even if they have proof they are/were an employee.
Does not say if they are a pilot or cleaned the restrooms.
This isn’t directed at you in particular but to everyone who is interested. The emails and texts that are being described are freely available,(somewhat redacted,) and that they are genuine is not in dispute. You can read them yourselves if you have the stamina and interest.
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Wonder if any of those were written by employees that left tools and debris in KC-46 compartments that got sealed up.
Air Force won’t accept any more Boeing tankers until manufacturing process is cleaned up (Seattle Times, March 1, 2019)
The Air Force said Friday that it won’t accept delivery of any more KC-46 tankers until Boeing’s manufacturing process is cleaned up.
Boeing grounded the tankers just over a week ago after loose tools and bits of debris — known in the aviation world as Foreign Object Debris, or FOD — were found in various locations inside completed airplanes, the airframes of which are built on the 767 assembly line in Everett...
...In the past, final FOD sweeps of any area of any aircraft that’s about to be closed up would have been done by a quality inspector. However, Boeing is in the process of transforming its quality-control procedures, aiming to change work procedures and introduce automation so that many fewer such secondary checks are necessary.
One change already implemented is that mechanics can close up many areas of the airplane without an inspector taking a final look. And as part of what Boeing calls its Quality Transformation” program, the company intends to cut nearly 1,000 quality-inspector jobs over the next two years.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/air-force-wont-accept-any-more-boeing-tankers-until-manufacturing-process-is-cleaned-up/
Boeing clearly has a basketful of problems at the moment. IMO, it usually all starts at the top.
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Wonder if any of those were written by employees that left tools and debris in KC-46 compartments that got sealed up.
Boeing clearly has a basketful of problems at the moment. IMO, it usually all starts at the top.
Good point. Stronger message to follow?
In the F-4 community there was story about a particular squadron that was commanded by “tournament level jerk” (actual descriptive language filtered down) that was universally hated by everyone in his unit. He was apparently Teflon coated. Nothing ever stuck as a result of his piss poor leadership. When the annual Higher Headquarters Stan Eval visit came around, the hammer fell. One of the events during the visit was a Bold Face Test. This is a list of committed to memory emergency procedures. Every Monday morning during squadron normal ops, each pilot and WSO had to fill one out correctly before flying. We had these procedures down colder than cold. No one ever busted one.
So, the Stan Eval test was passed out at the beginning of the visit. The tests were filled out and handed in to the visiting team. The team graded the tests. Each and every one was a bust. Each test had the exact same word wrong, in the same line, in the same procedure. Message received. Interviews began. The squadron commander was relived. Except he didn’t leave with a multi million dollar bonus.
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Wonder if any of those were written by employees that left tools and debris in KC-46 compartments that got sealed up.
Boeing clearly has a basketful of problems at the moment. IMO, it usually all starts at the top.
I'm waiting for Ripsnort to appear. ;)
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Wonder if any of those were written by employees that left tools and debris in KC-46 compartments that got sealed up.
Boeing clearly has a basketful of problems at the moment. IMO, it usually all starts at the top.
Is this the same contract that Airbus initially won but then lost to Boeing through some crazy backhand/backchannel contractual maneuvering scheme?
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This may have some bearing on the problem. An engineer driven firm taken over by a bean counter driven firm.
https://qz.com/1776080/how-the-mcdonnell-douglas-boeing-merger-led-to-the-737-max-crisis/
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If two third world airlines had proper pilot standards Boeing wouldn't be a story.
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Is this the same contract that Airbus initially won but then lost to Boeing through some crazy backhand/backchannel contractual maneuvering scheme?
Same contract, yes.
"Crazy backhand/backchannel contractual maneuvering scheme?" No. Did you read that on the same site that confirms chemtrails are a nefarious government plot?
Boeing won the old fashioned way. They beat EADS on price with an aircraft more suited to the actual USAF requirements. Tricky that, eh?
Of course, you don't believe that. Here, read this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2011/02/28/how-boeing-won-the-tanker-war/#6816e56c3d49
TLDR?
Here, cut to the chase:
We'll have to wait a while to learn why EADS failed to price its tanker competitively. The one thing we know for sure is that the real-world costs of the rival tankers weren't even close, because EADS lost even though evaluators gave the company big breaks in calculating the cost of owning its plane. In other words, the Boeing tanker won on merit, and no protest of the outcome by EADS is going to change that fact.
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If two third world airlines had proper pilot standards Boeing wouldn't be a story.
Pretty much.
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If two third world airlines had proper pilot standards Boeing wouldn't be a story.
The very simple truth of the matter.
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The agreed theme is that there is a break down in multiple processes. The sad bit about it is it's all preventable with the right training and having employees that will walk the line with standards and SOPs.
One kink in the chain and the chain fails because of that one single point of failure.
This is in regards to Boeings assembly lines, boeings standards and foreign airline standards.
As has been proven in this thread, each suffered a break down in standards and now the consequences fall on one.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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If two third world airlines had proper pilot standards Boeing wouldn't be a story.
blame them two stupid pilots for all the crap Boeing is facing now that has nothing to do with the crashes.
seen this a few times since the 80s, put profits ahead of what is right and eventually you will go down.
semp
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blame them two stupid pilots for all the crap Boeing is facing now that has nothing to do with the crashes.
seen this a few times since the 80s, put profits ahead of what is right and eventually you will go down.
semp
That's right. If third world airlines would stop placing profits ahead of what is right they would have proper training, personnel standards, and equipment. In this case two airliners went down and killed a lot of people because of incompetent crews, poor regulatory oversight, and greedy airlines that place safety as anything-but a priority.
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That's right. If third world airlines would stop placing profits ahead of what is right they would have proper training, personnel standards, and equipment. In this case two airliners went down and killed a lot of people because of incompetent crews, poor regulatory oversight, and greedy airlines that place safety as anything-but a priority.
didn't know Boeing was in a third world country.
semp