Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: jamusta on December 29, 2004, 10:02:08 AM
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Dedicated to chasing the horde all over the skies of AH. We will force the capturing horde into a furball. Everywhere the horde goes this elite group will follow. We will fly to the base where the horde is forming up for its attack. Once there we will pounce upon the helpless heavy followers of the horde until they decide enough is enough. Then it is off to the next large darbar to find more horde to feast on. The Rooks had the RJO. The Bish had er um hmmm just a horde I guess. The Knights shall have THE ANTI-HORDE HORDE!!!!!!
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Wha?
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Can't tell if you are serious or not ... if you are, then I will be looking for you guys online. Hopefully many furballs will be the by-product.
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I am serious.. Myself Nomde WMLute and a few others had a ball the other night stopping an attack. So I was just wondering if it was possible to bring together like minded individuals to intercept the horde between bases. Sort of like cutting off the supply lines. Instead of going to a map and looking for an even fight we can mass together and head for the horde and make the fight even. Much more fun than upping from a CAP'd base.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Can't tell if you are serious or not ... if you are, then I will be looking for you guys online. Hopefully many furballs will be the by-product.
Count me in. I have to steal some kills before I get you killed, lol
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Around what time you guys usually flying?
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Originally posted by dedalos
Count me in. I have to steal some kills before I get you killed, lol
Too funny Ded !!!
Jamusta ... I will be looking for you guys when I am on ... sounds like it could be much fun and right up my alley.
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Count me in Jamusta!!!
:aok
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The knights invented the potatod.
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So your gonna create an organized hoard to stop the hoards... how great... even more hoarding... how fantastic....
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Ah a new brotherhood is forming.... From this day forward we shall be known as The Anti-Horde Horde... I fly between 4pm and 10pm pst. We can hook up anytime. Throw some suggestions out. For alas my friends we have no leader, no rank.... There will be no beotching about kill stealing. No wannabe generals wondering why you left the vh and ack up. No complaining about the town not being down. We will leave that for the knights who capture. We will simply plunder like locust and leave when the horde is gone.
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
So your gonna create an organized hoard to stop the hoards... how great... even more hoarding... how fantastic....
Um Tex when a horde meets a horde you get what we call a fight, a nice size furball. Im not talking about a squad taking a base type of thing. I'm talking about a horde that has a continuous line between 2 bases with 40 pilets going to and fro like ants at a picnic kind of horde. But if you want to put it that way yes a horde to stop a horde....
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"Mr President, We must not allow a Horde Gap!"
The Anti-Horde role has been around for a long time. Nothing to complicated either, "Here comes the bad guys, lets get them before they get us!"
Good Luck in your quest to stop the Horde, whatever country they may be.
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Originally posted by jamusta
Ah a new brotherhood is forming.... From this day forward we shall be known as The Anti-Horde Horde... I fly between 4pm and 10pm pst. We can hook up anytime. Throw some suggestions out. For alas my friends we have no leader, no rank.... There will be no beotching about kill stealing. No wannabe generals wondering why you left the vh and ack up. No complaining about the town not being down. We will leave that for the knights who capture. We will simply plunder like locust and leave when the horde is gone.
Gotta have a better name. Anti-horde horde? No ring to it. Doesn't roll off the tongue very well.
How bout the "Horde Busters" :)
Dan/Slack
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everytime you see a hoard, why not just go bomb all their hangars and troops/ord at nearby bases?
be careful not to spoil furball's though, big difference.
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Haha Furball that would defeat the purpose of the anti-horde horde. The name of the brotherhood has to be as lame as the very evil we are trying to fight against... Plus I was watching Beverly Hills Cop and still laugh at the Anti-banana disguise..
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Originally posted by Furball
everytime you see a hoard, why not just go bomb all their hangars and troops/ord at nearby bases?
be careful not to spoil furball's though, big difference.
Holy crap ... you need to go to your room and think about what you posted.
I believe the object of the Anti-Horde really would be to amass fighters and FIGHT ... ya know - swat them all out of the air ... I don't think that jamusta wants to play their game. I know that I will not be bringin' any eggs with me on these sorties.
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Great idea. Gotta be prepared to switch sides as needed or have similar groups flying for each country. The hord doesn't like to be opposed, and will run to avoid serious contact even to a new front if needed.
Charon
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We would enjoy it. It would give our designated cap-horders something to do. And all your base still are belong to us!
shubie
Bish Horde Representative
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Originally posted by SlapShot
I know that I will not be bringin' any eggs with me on these sorties.
Wrong, we all should bring eggs and trow them at the red guys. :rofl
Messes with their vision. Its like oil damage.
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I guess none of the nachwuchs remember KAG (Knights Axis Group)...?
Where's Wilbus? LJK? 9./JG54?
100% Jäger, Focke-Wolf overcast...
Farmboi opportunists learned to just run away and the old hands faded away.
Oops, what's this thread about?
Horrido dem Sieger!!!
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Jamusta,
Where ever Nomde is the 56th who are online will be with him. I hope the hoard likes Jugs...........Cave Tonitrum;)
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Holy crap ... you need to go to your room and think about what you posted.
I have thought about it, and i am ashamed.
I am deeply sorry for my previous comments encouraging the building battler mentality.
Please ignore my previous post!
make sure you fly fast planes to catch them screamingrunweenies ;)
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We dont need no stinking eggs!!!!! We have our own horde for that...
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Originally posted by Furball
I have thought about it, and i am ashamed.
I am deeply sorry for my previous comments encouraging the building battler mentality.
Please ignore my previous post!
make sure you fly fast planes to catch them screamingrunweenies ;)
I was shocked SHOCKED I say..... Thought you were trying to hook me
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so, instead of one or two defenders, you will get a group ("horde") to do this? sounds promising.
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Must ................. Make ..... horde ... big .. ... ...er .
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Originally posted by Roscoroo
Must ................. Make ..... horde ... big .. ... ...er .
Horde...big...enough...must.. .outwit...simple...minded...f urballers...
Wait, no challenge in that.
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This is exactly what the strat guys have been saying all along. If you want to keep your base, go get a plane and defend it.
Does this mean you are conceding the point?
shubie
Birds of Prey XO
BoP Peregrines CO
and self-appointed Horde Spokesperson
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This is exactly what the strat guys have been saying all along. If you want to keep your base, go get a plane and defend it.
Does this mean you are conceding the point?
I seriously doubt you could pull enough people away from their own safe horde to actually oppose the enemy horde most of the time (barring some large organized squads). It's not like you don't regularly see two opposing hords attacking lightly defended bases within a sector or two of each outer, carefully avoiding any mutual contact. Then, its a matter of following the opposed hord over the map from undefended base to undefended base once things start to get a little hot. Worth a try though.
Charon
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Woo Hoo count me in!!!!! Its been a long time since I cared about base captures. I go looking for a furball and the bigger the better.
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Originally posted by Charon
I seriously doubt you could pull enough people away from their own safe horde to actually oppose the enemy horde most of the time (barring some large organized squads). It's not like you don't regularly see two opposing hords attacking lightly defended bases within a sector or two of each outer, carefully avoiding any mutual contact. Then, its a matter of following the opposed hord over the map from undefended base to undefended base once things start to get a little hot. Worth a try though.
Charon
1. Hordes are not all that safe. Horde members are flying "heavy" aircraft, that cannot get out of their own way. Try dogfighting with a couple of thousand pounders under your wings.
2. I (personally) do not like to be on the defense. I prefer to attack, and make the OTHER guy defend. When I do defend, I tend to up from capped fields and get my tail shot off.
3. I suspect that most horde participants are much like me in that way. We enjoy playing the base capture game, and therefore spend a lot of time capturing bases.
4. I see a lot of experten that hang around a few miles away from an enemy base, waiting and hoping for the "baby seals" to fly by on the way to their fun. If you guys admit it to yourselves, the existence of the strat players--by far the majority IMO--gives you something to do with your time. If it weren't true, you'd all be off in the DA furballing with each other.
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I dont mind the strat part of the game. In fact I enjoy blowing things up with heavy thingies. I'll even do an NOE raid on occasions. I dont enjoy watching folks on all sides up using 40 players and attack bases that are undefended trying to avoid each other. I am sure most base attacks start off with a few players but when jojo and bobo see the dar advantage they immediately head to it. Athough I made comments refering to the furball thing it is more of a lets make them earn it post.
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2. I (personally) do not like to be on the defense. I prefer to attack, and make the OTHER guy defend. When I do defend, I tend to up from capped fields and get my tail shot off.
Shubert, what happens if the base you're on the offense against suddenly develops some serious resistance? Do you keep attacking that base or move on to an easier target?
Charon
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Dude, this is all I do every night I fly in the MA, throwing myself at the horde mercilessly and doing everything I can to stop it, whether its all by myself or with a couple other lunatics who want to club every seal there is in the horde of dweebery. I've been waiting for this for a long time!
Btw, it would have to be by nature a nomadic squad, switching around to best fight off whichever side is hordmongering and milking the worst.
Think of a better name too :aok
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I dont know what shubie would do but most will give up and move to easier target... When they do we will follow.
Stang its a movement not a squad.
Anyone have any suggestions on a name?
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If shubert is so interested in offense perhaps he could join in. I wouldn't mind flying in a base taking assault if it actually targeted the heart of the enemy numbers :) Just think of the feeling of accomplishment from actually taking a heavily defended base using skill, organization, teamwork and cunning. [edit: I LOVE STRAT GAMES! I WANT GOOD AH STRAT GAMEPLAY! I HAVE MISSED THAT IN THESE GAMES SINCE ABOUT 1997] Of course, the enemy hord would have to be as like minded and well, we know the answer to that one.
Charon
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Originally posted by Charon
Shubert, what happens if the base you're on the offense against suddenly develops some serious resistance? Do you keep attacking that base or move on to an easier target?
Charon
I really want this question answered Shubie
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My Squaddies and I would like to be included in this as well. I'll look ya up Jamusta. Great IDEA:aok
Whooooooooo Hooooooooooooooo Constant furballs:D
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Woooot! Quah!
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:aok
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I'm In
Names ?
"Knights who say Nyet" ;)
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Not just constant furballs, but a righteous force of dedicated dweebs determined to change the ways of the horde through extreme prejudice and seal clubbing... I love it! :D
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Huh....Stang Sir? this mean you gonna be Knight a while? I may get a chance to fly with ya and everything? :eek:
I am so happy:D
All my dreams ARE coming true.....
Theres no place like home theres no place like home theres no place like home :rofl :rofl
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I would say that the best approach to start would be to set up a "squad" night. It would also be nice to easily identify like-minded players to wing with, somehow. Hard to do the secret handshake over the monitor, don't know how acceptable it would be to modify squad names, etc.
Charon
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Actually Charon I think most of us already know who we are and have done something like this on occasion in the past, usually when the Muppets, 13th, the BK's and friends hooked up in Knitland. Won't take but a few moments to get it rolling in the MA cause the hate of the horde has been festering for so long :D
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Originally posted by jamusta
I am serious.. Myself Nomde WMLute and a few others had a ball the other night stopping an attack. So I was just wondering if it was possible to bring together like minded individuals to intercept the horde between bases. Sort of like cutting off the supply lines. Instead of going to a map and looking for an even fight we can mass together and head for the horde and make the fight even. Much more fun than upping from a CAP'd base.
Pick a text channel number and let us know on-line
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Sounds good to me stang. I know the reputations of the squads mentioned, but there are a lot of lone wolf or small squad guys like me out there who have the same spirit. I spent a lot of time a few months ago fighting the BKs in a running brawl trying to get a kill on Laz in his Fm2 just for laughs, or seeing if I could get by its resident Killbot (levi) to get a shot that I could make, but Levi kept popping me, and popping me and popping me. Did get a weak one on drex though :)
This is the most excited I've been with AH in a LONG time...
Charon
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First the word of the movement must be passed on past the BBS.
Then we must organize our squads. Im not talking about 1 night a week. I am talking about a daily butt whipping. This is not to change the game from strat to furball or furball to strat it is to turn it into a game into a place where flying with the horde is no longer safe and easy.
They shall know that flying in the horde now makes you a target!!!!!
Seriously, we that have been here for awhile are to blame for the current situation of milkrunning hordes. We let it get out of control. I have been here since 2001 and have seen the decline in good fights. Those days the strat guys attacked defended bases and milkrunners were ridiculed. We have beatched and moaned on the BBS but now it is time for action. Lets take back our virtual skies and mold the new guys to what they should be rather than let them change the game we once loved.
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71 Squadron RAF Spitfires will be around and ready:aok
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Then we must organize our squads. Im not talking about 1 night a week. I am talking about a daily butt whipping. This is not to change the game from strat to furball or furball to strat it is to turn it into a game into a place where flying with the horde is no longer safe and easy.
I was just thinking that initially, it might be a good idea to start with a "get to know you/have some numbers" squad night as the movement begins to grow. I personally wouldn't want any repeat of the overwhelming RJO, unless it was spread out through all the countries evenly. JMO, Keep rolling brother Jam.
Charon out
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i think for everyone who likes dogfighting and killing alot of air to air in a sortie, the anti-horde CAP has surely been done.
But, NEVER on a scale like this could be...
Mwwaaahahah...
im in.
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We will only use force when forced too. We will not constantly horde around.
A name is in order for the anti-horde horde... Any suggestions?
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"Tactical Wing Aeronautical Team" STRATTERBUSTERS
or
T.W.A.T.S.
"who shot you down?"
"those avacadoS :mad: "
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or the I.S.P.S.T.S.
International Society for the Protection of Sheep and Thier Sheds
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Originally posted by mechanic
"Tactical Wing Aeronautical Team" STRATTERBUSTERS
or
T.W.A.T.S.
"who shot you down?"
"those avacadoS :mad: "
ROFLMBO....I can see it now
Country channel call goes out...............
"All avacadoS meet at A51...ALL avacadoS A51" :rofl
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Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Areonautical Tactical Wing Against Toolshedders
System Message....
You have been killed by ATWAT:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Stopping
Hoards
by
Engaging
Enemy
Pilots
S.H.E.E.P.
oh...and count me in
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Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this kind of what was intended by HT in the first place?
Don't get me wrong, it sounds like fun, as someone who enjoys doing bombing runs every now and then I would love to actually run into some real danger to add to the realism. This would force them to get together fighter cover and bring together a real nice little furball, bombers and all.
I wouldn't think of it as anti-hording since you are really giving most of them exactly what they want.
In conclussion: Good idea :aok
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We could have a winner!
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Originally posted by plank
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this kind of what was intended by HT in the first place?
Don't get me wrong, it sounds like fun, as someone who enjoys doing bombing runs every now and then I would love to actually run into some real danger to add to the realism. This would force them to get together fighter cover and bring together a real nice little furball, bombers and all.
I wouldn't think of it as anti-hording since you are really giving most of them exactly what they want.
In conclussion: Good idea :aok
If most of them wanted to be engaged they wouldnt attack undefended bases...
I think S.H.E.E.P is a winner..We should change it up a little since we to have a horde that milk runs...
Stop
Hoarding
Engage
Enemy
Pilets
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If 2 wrongs dont make a right , what do 2 hoards make?
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Originally posted by FiLtH
If 2 wrongs dont make a right , what do 2 hoards make?
Something Great (tm) of course!
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Something Great (tm) of course!
-- Todd/Leviathn
And of course Lev is out there flying against the Horde busters tonite, probably figuring he'll get some seriously good dogfighting in :)
Dan/Slack
Was a good brawl between 18 and 17 tonite
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Originally posted by FiLtH
If 2 wrongs dont make a right , what do 2 hoards make?
One hell of a furball... Just got finished fighting between 17 & 18 and its still going. Started about 700pm and it is now 1026pm. The horde had 18 in its grasp so a few of us upped to start picking off the heavies and low and behold fighters by the dozens started upping from 17. This took pressure off of 18 and the conga line from both sides started and met in the middle. There were high fights, low fights, strat guys still flying bombers furballers chasing them, escort fighters the works. killed some died more but it was intense and it was fun. Only question i have is, WHERE WERE YOU GUYS?
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Originally posted by Guppy35
And of course Lev is out there flying against the Horde busters tonite, probably figuring he'll get some seriously good dogfighting in :)
Yeah, I was doing that "tip of the spear" sort of thing. I didn't feel like joining eight guys on one unlucky enemy over by 17, so I flew way ahead of the horde and engaged lots of enemies right by 18 instead. Fun stuff.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by jamusta
Dedicated to chasing the horde all over the skies of AH. We will force the capturing horde into a furball. Everywhere the horde goes this elite group will follow. We will fly to the base where the horde is forming up for its attack. Once there we will pounce upon the helpless heavy followers of the horde until they decide enough is enough. Then it is off to the next large darbar to find more horde to feast on. The Rooks had the RJO. The Bish had er um hmmm just a horde I guess. The Knights shall have THE ANTI-HORDE HORDE!!!!!!
A great Idea, in fact I thought of it about 5 months ago! I hope you get more momentum than i was able to. I think I had a thread called Horde Busters, or somthing like that. Like i said, I hope you get better results than I did. Gameplay needs all the help it can get.:aok
(edit: I bumped the thread I originally thought of it in "Aces Horde")
Anton
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When the anti horde needs reenforcements because of heavy resistence just hollar in country channle, codeword anti horde.
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Just call for the S.H.E.E.P.
If need be, ill take over the MASH unit for sheeps. :)
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Horde Alert A69 Horde Alert calling all S.H.E.E.P. A69
hmmm not bad. good idea. :)
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WHERE WERE YOU GUYS?
I was out getting drunk with some friends until after midnight (which is pretty good for a married guy going on 40). But I'll look for it next time I log on :)
Charon
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Operation Locust swat
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Jamusta,
Good going there announcing this on the BB. What happens???? You got the Rooks back up to 30k hoarding again last night. The 56th was up doing sweeps. Every sweep the Rooks were 2-5k higher. We kept coming back 2-5k higher each time. Soooo you do the math. AH2 don't got space ships so we didn't go that high.
So Jam.......you got any more bright ideas you wanna share with all 3 countries??????:D
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Actually after my initial contact i noticed they werent expecting to see me that high most just flew pass on there way to 18. Those that did engage did a couple of passes then dove to the deck. So I stayed high until I reached 17. I swooped down and started to shoot down fighters and bombers as they were climbing out. I ended up getting killed so I upped again and headed over to 17. This time i never made contact with anyone until I got to 17. I noticed that they were lower. Each time I went back the fight was lower until it was on the deck. Persistance my friend bustr persistance...
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shubie... if I couldn't put up any better fight than you do then I would pretend to not want to furball either...
naaa.... I would just fight until I got it.
lazs
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"WHERE WERE YOU GUYS?"
I was right down there at 18 in the thick of it. Believe I shot your 38 down..was a fun fight, then someone else joined in.
I got quite a few kills..I was in the anti-anti furball LA7...rtb'd all but once when I got cute in an f4. Was alot of fun down there!
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Yes you did shoot down my 38 ya bastid... Dont you know I am trying to learn to fly 38? How can I if you keep shooting me down...:lol
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Originally posted by bustr
Jamusta,
Good going there announcing this on the BB. What happens???? You got the Rooks back up to 30k hoarding again last night. The 56th was up doing sweeps. Every sweep the Rooks were 2-5k higher. We kept coming back 2-5k higher each time. Soooo you do the math. AH2 don't got space ships so we didn't go that high.
So Jam.......you got any more bright ideas you wanna share with all 3 countries??????:D
The 17-18 fight seemed to end up on the deck most of the time. There were a few up there in the stratosphere, but not many.
Dan/Slack
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You can thank us for being such tempting targets. When ever they looked down and saw 4 or 5 jugs in formation, it was a dog pile. So everything wound up low. But every time we came back higher in formation, they were higher. Then we would bring them back down with us. By that time we were shot to peices and others cleaned up the straglers.
We kept asking each other where are they coming from. It was just our luck to find the high ones every sweep. Thats why we finally did the center island bit outta 22. And some sweeps out of 27. Now I could be drinking some strange watermelon and have my neurons whacked, but thats what I remmember from last night. :)
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Ok, fellas, I am going to cut my own throat, and tell you all how to stop the Horde (it's spelled H-O-R-D-E, by the way. A hoard is a stash of something valuable)
DEFENSIVE TACTICS
1. Intercept the enemy BEFORE he/she drops bombs on your stuff.
2. Get some altitude. Altitude is good. An elite fighter pilot in an elite fighter plane unburdened by heavy explody things climbs faster than a nasty, slow Jabo. That's high school physics. Having altitude means you control the fight.
3. Pay attention to the darbars in the ENEMY sectors to see where they are going. Advance warning is good.
4. Don't go chasing the guys that have dropped their bombs. They have already won the fight. Find somebody who hasn't dropped yet. He is worth killing, since he is dangerous to your valuable stuff. Last night, I made 3 passes on a field in a P-38 with a pony, a lala, and a niki chasing me all the way. None of them realized that I was no longer the threat--it was the other guys with ORD they should be worried about. All I had was 4 popguns and a hizooka.
5. Communicate. Early, not late. Screaming that "Base X is about to be captured" to the whole arena on country channel is about 5 minutes too late. Don't bother, you're just jamming the radio. If you see an attack forming, tell everybody about it before the FHs go down.
I swear, if the goobers we attack did the above, our horde tactics would not work so often. We would then need to modify our plans, and make a change.
I hope you do, 'cause I've got some new tactics I wanna try out.
shubie
Evil Horde Coordinator and Self-annointed Tactical Genius
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Originally posted by lazs2
shubie... if I couldn't put up any better fight than you do then I would pretend to not want to furball either...
naaa.... I would just fight until I got it.
lazs
oh, bite me lassie. There you go getting nasty again.
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should be interesting with fr in the teens hell it'll be a slide show of oil splattered windscreens and flaming wings,was so slow the other night in a horde that I could count the # of bullets from each gun,figured it would be Jam who'd come up with idea.sounds fun but just more of the same over time.however if you combined this idea with others regarding training new players you could in fact turn the MA around to the way it should be but not everyone agrees of how that should be.I flew with Jamusta for awhile then took a trip through rookland to fly with the 327th ,both were fun and educational but to completely different animals all together.but the confusion of of eveyman for himself is what I like ,to save a friend or get snapshots as he goes down in flames and email him the pictures to ho a goon cause he is loosing his troops and your outta ammo.all in a days work.Knits were always more fun cause everyone knows what to do but would rather do thier own thing while we listen to some sap yells how stupid we are,gotta love that,so this should be fun to watch and listen to.
VIC
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To be in the anti horde horde you can not be afraid to be shot down.... The movement is a failure. Very few are willing to fight a larger horde. I shall press on with the movement even if I must do it alone...
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To be in the anti horde horde you can not be afraid to be shot down.... The movement is a failure. Very few are willing to fight a larger horde. I shall press on with the movement even if I must do it alone...
If you set up a specific time next week (a "squad night") I bet we could get a good selection of like minded individuals together. The movement needs to start somewhere, but to start it needs some mass of its own. I avoid the hord myself when it's 1 v 5 odds.
Charon
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I'm in count on me!
An my kills are easy to steal, just ask slap.:DYes you did shoot down my 38 ya bastid... Dont you know I am trying to learn to fly 38? How can I if you keep shooting me down...
If you don't eat your meat, you cant have any pudding. How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?:D
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Well the main problem that has been seen is the alt at which the horde flies these days. It is no longer at 10k. The horde I have been fighting is now 20k avg. This is by far to high for most and they do not wish to fly that high. It is a long and boring flight. But yes i see a set schedule is in order. Someone throw out a time. I am flexible since I get off work at 2pm.
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Originally posted by jamusta
Well the main problem that has been seen is the alt at which the horde flies these days. It is no longer at 10k. The horde I have been fighting is now 20k avg. This is by far to high for most and they do not wish to fly that high. It is a long and boring flight. But yes i see a set schedule is in order. Someone throw out a time. I am flexible since I get off work at 2pm.
2pm? Forget the horde. I want your job. what do you do and where do I send the application?
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he's a porn star
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You dont want my job it sucks. I'm going to start doing what Vic does. He's me fluffer in my gangbang movies along side JOC
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To keep this rolling, what are the basic parameters?
1. Country affilation. I usually fly for the country with the fewest numbers, so I dont care. All countries share in this "gameplay." is there one situation (country, big squad night, etc?) that stands out above the rest? Would a rotating schedule make sense to include like-minded squads that may not like to change countries?
2. Nature of the get together. Will it be all A2A or will we work to smash the hords home base, resources as well.
3. Organization and leadership. Some organization and leadership is required. I wouldn't think it would be anything too heavy or formal.
4. Time. Prime time US, obviously. Are there any days where the situation seems worse than others? Weekend, weeknight?
Charon
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get this organized, and I will guarantee a horde for you to try to kill. Gar- on- tee.
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get this organized, and I will guarantee a horde for you to try to kill. Gar- on- tee.
You know, I'm sure we would take you up on that. Are you up for a fight where the odds are fairly equal? I don't think the plan is to throw some selection of "7 samurai" to die valiantly against 4-1 odds, but a whole pack of dedicated opposition larger than most horde warriors seem to like to face. Maybe a "you try to take our base, we'll try to take yours" kind of thing, with no focus on winning the war for an evening. What do ya say:)
Charon
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Can't we just focus on one specific horde instead?
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Originally posted by Charon
You know, I'm sure we would take you up on that. Are you up for a fight where the odds are fairly equal? I don't think the plan is to throw some selection of "7 samurai" to die valiantly against 4-1 odds, but a whole pack of dedicated opposition larger than most horde warriors seem to like to face. Maybe a "you try to take our base, we'll try to take yours" kind of thing, with no focus on winning the war for an evening. What do ya say:)
Charon
Let's pick a night and a time. It'll be a blast. We could go with an offense-defense kind of thing, or just free-form.
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Jamusta,
Have you tried making hoard busting missions in the planner yet and posting them?
Put in all the non-perked altmonkey uber rides, Pony, PJ, Dora, and JugD40. Nomde has us in the CT tonight, but next time you see us in the MA, give him a shout on it. As you know we mostly fly wing sweeps with out P47's covering 3 bases from 15-20k. What you are describing sounds like our standard squad Op's.
20 altmonkey rides blowing into a hoard as a mission would work.
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Excellent idea bustr... Now I must learn how to use the damn missun planner
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So If i get thisstraight, A game that used to be about capturing bases, working as a group and developing a plan, looking out for each other and achieving a goal is now about to turn into a fly for points fighter arcade type game! Totaly devoid of strategy or any last vestiges of realism or team work. Just perfect (not)
Over the last year we've lost our clouds weather systems, night flying, variety of terrain, and itseems now we are overun with point scorers.
Oh I'll be sure not fly when you guys are around lol.
(cue the flaming and sniping)
;)
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So If i get thisstraight, A game that used to be about capturing bases, working as a group and developing a plan, looking out for each other and achieving a goal is now about to turn into a fly for points fighter arcade type game! Totaly devoid of strategy or any last vestiges of realism or team work. Just perfect (not)
Over the last year we've lost our clouds weather systems, night flying, variety of terrain, and itseems now we are overun with point scorers.
Oh I'll be sure not fly when you guys are around lol.
(cue the flaming and sniping)
;)
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Uhhhh Skydancer, this game started out as just Air to Air combat, the Strat malarky cam afterwards.:aok
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Originally posted by mechanic
"Tactical Wing Aeronautical Team" STRATTERBUSTERS
or
T.W.A.T.S.
"who shot you down?"
"those avacadoS :mad: "
:rofl :rofl
Count me in!! Mwhahahahaha!!
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in........
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Uhh,,,Skydancer....Fighter sweeps are authentic and very effective tools for disrupting and destroying enemy initiatives. Does anyone here remember WW2, 8th Airforce bomber streams, Luftwaffa fighter defence of the Father land............Sooo I guess we should not use "tactics" from WW2 to stop groups of coordinated mutualy supportive enemies, working together with a PLAN to destroy our cities and bases?????????
Have I been living in Kalifornia too long guys???? I think my old adilpated brains aint workin right or sumptin.........I just tought Jumasta had the makins of a great idea and we could play it out with authenticity...........and have a Rip Snortin Kester kicken Sheep Scarin Good Time................did I miss anything at the door on the way in?????????????????:rolleyes:
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Can't we just focus on one specific horde instead?
Nothing wrong with both, at least for me. Shubie has thrown down the gauntlet and it should be a fun time if enough people are interested :)
I also wouldn't mind regularly joining Jam's movement one night a week so I could devote my limited flying time to flying with others who have the same general outlook and a desire to engage the enemy at the heart of the attack. I don't mind hordse if they face off with other hordes. Don't even mind strat if it involves a fight.
Charon
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a goal is now about to turn into a fly for points fighter arcade type game! Totaly devoid of strategy or any last vestiges of realism or team work. Just perfect (not)
Points, what are they? Actually this would dramatically increase the challenge behind the strategy and need for good leadership and teamwork -- by everybody. Expect to be hounded, have your jabos intercepted in force, work for your A2A kills and your goons shot out of the air if you slip up. And expect it on the next base and the one you attack after that (at least until the wife knocks on the door) :)
Charon
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Originally posted by Skydancer
So If i get thisstraight, A game that used to be about capturing bases, working as a group and developing a plan, looking out for each other and achieving a goal is now about to turn into a fly for points fighter arcade type game! Totaly devoid of strategy or any last vestiges of realism or team work. Just perfect (not)
Over the last year we've lost our clouds weather systems, night flying, variety of terrain, and itseems now we are overun with point scorers.
Oh I'll be sure not fly when you guys are around lol.
(cue the flaming and sniping)
;)
I really like your enthusiasm, and your avitar is cool too, but I don't quite think you are current with the AH general concensus of the true defination of the problematic horde. The horde in question has been defined in this, and many other threads, look it up.
I'm sure there isn't many people in here that would have a problem with you organizing 10 or even 20 people, targeting a base (even an undefended one), attacking in any manner you desire whether high alt or under dar or whatever, and timing your attack so that the troops arrive when needed for capture. But not just bombing, augering, and finding a fresh undefended base to try again at when defenders arrive.
With that said, my horde-buster input would be to have whoever decides to participate in said opperation to be a squad of sorts. Somthing similar to the position of a volunteer fireman, when the alarm sounds, the fighters come runnin. You wouldn't have to leave your current squad naturally, but just agree on what the alarm is and who is in the group.
If we get this kind of thing going, I will sign back up to lend a hand.:aok
Anton
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BRING EM!
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If the defensive forces were squad based and the idea was to provide some opposition for the attack I can see merit. What I don't want to see happen is a purely uber fighter filled sky with no scope for objectives being taken.
Maybe its time the MA changed. Could it not be a bit more like the old Allies Versus axis in AW. Rolling planesets defined by time period and which side you are fighting on.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
If the defensive forces were squad based and the idea was to provide some opposition for the attack I can see merit. What I don't want to see happen is a purely uber fighter filled sky with no scope for objectives being taken.
Maybe its time the MA changed. Could it not be a bit more like the old Allies Versus axis in AW. Rolling planesets defined by time period and which side you are fighting on.
As much as people seem to dislike RPS, I've maintained that it'd help the MA. RPS would force some kind of variety in tactics and techniques. Low-flying Ju-88's and Boston's won't be nearly as effective as the B-17 and B-24 brethren, for instance. And getting people out of their uber-rides can only increase the overall competency of the MA population.
Regardless of the impact on the MA, the opportunity to stomp the spine out of someone who not only deserves it, but asks for it, should never be passed up.
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Originally posted by anton
If we get this kind of thing going, I will sign back up to lend a hand.:aok
Anton
Wait a minute...you're not currently playing the game, yet claim to understand the "consensus"? It is to laugh.
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I would join but my objective would be purely a fighter filled sky and killing the red planes in the biggest fight available.
I think most of the BK's feel the same... if it brings good fights we are there. if it has an objective.... we may wander off during that part. this is not a war game to us. It will be fun to slaughter the mouse weilders and builting battlers who have never given enough time to learn to fight.
lazs
Public relations officer for the BK's
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What, held under the dorsal guiding feathers?
:p
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For starters, I guess we should move ahead with the Shubie challenge.
To get the ball rolling, Thursday of next week works for me. I would vote for an attack vs. defense (defending against Shubie's attack) scenario. I think that works for what Shubie likes to do and for what us disorganized non-horde types like to do (not that defense needs to be strictly defensive or offense strictly offensive).
I am willing to act as an initial coordinator for the defense side. Not a battlefield general, but the guy to collect notices from interested squads and help formulate a general plan of defense that will be implemented by the individual squads. If we need a battlefield general we can hash that out later. Obviously, once started this may take on a life of its own as people join in on either side :)
Let me know here and/or drop me an e-mail if interested.
Charon
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Sounds good sorta strat versus furball thing... Lets give it a go charon.
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Originally posted by Charon
... Shubie challenge. ...
Now there's an oxymoron.
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Originally posted by Charon
For starters, I guess we should move ahead with the Shubie challenge.
To get the ball rolling, Thursday of next week works for me. I would vote for an attack vs. defense (defending against Shubie's attack) scenario. I think that works for what Shubie likes to do and for what us disorganized non-horde types like to do (not that defense needs to be strictly defensive or offense strictly offensive).
I am willing to act as an initial coordinator for the defense side. Not a battlefield general, but the guy to collect notices from interested squads and help formulate a general plan of defense that will be implemented by the individual squads. If we need a battlefield general we can hash that out later. Obviously, once started this may take on a life of its own as people join in on either side :)
Let me know here and/or drop me an e-mail if interested.
Charon
We'll be there. How about starting the festivities at about 8 pm EST?
shubie
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That's fine for me, though it might hit the Pacific time zone guys a bit hard. I'd like to get some more feedback on the date at a squad level.
Charon
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Now there's an oxymoron.
You know, if that made any sense, I might be able to respond to it. As it is, I guess I am just going to have to challenge you to a duel. Pistols at 20 paces? Tactical Nukes at 300 km? Mark 47 photon torpedos at 3 parsecs?
shubie
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Originally posted by Charon
That's fine for me, though it might hit the Pacific time zone guys a bit hard. I'd like to get some more feedback on the date at a squad level.
Charon
Great. If it needs to be a bit later, let me know, we'll work it out. Do you have any idea what map will be up? That would help us decide where to have the party.
shubie
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Originally posted by rshubert
Wait a minute...you're not currently playing the game, yet claim to understand the "consensus"? It is to laugh.
Laugh all you want after you prove me wrong. What does being a current paying member have to do with knowing the general consensus of the definition of a horde exactly?
I know what hordes are, I know what they do, and I know they are still quite prevailant in todays AH.
If am wrong, why then is there at least 3 threads, well passed page 2 in replies, about the hordes and their negative effect on the game, posted on the first page of the general topics forum? Please prove me wrong.
Anton
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Originally posted by anton
Laugh all you want after you prove me wrong. What does being a current paying member have to do with knowing the general consensus of the definition of a horde exactly?
I know what hordes are, I know what they do, and I know they are still quite prevailant in todays AH.
If am wrong, why then is there at least 3 threads, well passed page 2 in replies, about the hordes and their negative effect on the game, posted on the first page of the general topics forum? Please prove me wrong.
Anton
I'll keep it short and simple, Anton.
If the "concensus" were against hordes, there wouldn't BE ANY HORDES due to a lack of members. Get it? The threads are all started by a minority that thinks they have a monopoly on what constitutes successful gameplay.
Come on into the MA, and watch. You will see what I mean. The real concensus is that concentration of force (what the experten are calling hordes) is the way to capture territory. Some of us play that game, and enjoy it. Obviously, enough to create the dreaded "hordes" some people object to so strongly.
Personally, and I have posted it many times, I think the cooperative tactics and concentration of force make for a more enjoyable experience. I HATE getting gang-raped by two or four enemy planes when I fly around alone. I almost never go plane hunting by myself, since even the experten run for the ack or a friend when they are disadvantaged in a fight. And I think fighting at 1000 feet alt is silly, unrealistic, and counterproductive.
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Originally posted by rshubert
...
Personally, and I have posted it many times, I think the cooperative tactics and concentration of force make for a more enjoyable experience. I HATE getting gang-raped by two or four enemy planes when I fly around alone. I almost never go plane hunting by myself, since even the experten run for the ack or a friend when they are disadvantaged in a fight. And I think fighting at 1000 feet alt is silly, unrealistic, and counterproductive.
Translation: you suck at the game so you need to hide in the crowd to avoid getting shot down on every single flight, and now you are rationalizing that behavior.
"Concentation of force" ... now that's funny.
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Originally posted by rshubert
I
Personally, and I have posted it many times, I think the cooperative tactics and concentration of force make for a more enjoyable experience. I HATE getting gang-raped by two or four enemy planes when I fly around alone. I almost never go plane hunting by myself, since even the experten run for the ack or a friend when they are disadvantaged in a fight. And I think fighting at 1000 feet alt is silly, unrealistic, and counterproductive.
Silly , unrealistic , unproductive and damn fun.
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gonzo said something I think is entirely correct in his translation...
oh well... stranger things have happened... I agree with shubies political and social views.
lazs
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Originally posted by rshubert
I HATE getting gang-raped by two or four enemy planes when I fly around alone
That's what I enjoy. Go figure.
..tho 4 is REALLY pushing it.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Translation: you suck at the game so you need to hide in the crowd to avoid getting shot down on every single flight, and now you are rationalizing that behavior.
"Concentation of force" ... now that's funny.
Dokgonzo, you really need to get a grip. Try deep breathing exercises, or maybe some xanax. Or try this remedy:
1. Close the garage doors with the car inside.
2. Start the car.
3. Stay near the back of the car, and wait to see if something happens.
Let me know what results you get.
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Originally posted by rshubert
I'll keep it short and simple, Anton.
If the "concensus" were against hordes, there wouldn't BE ANY HORDES due to a lack of members. Get it? The threads are all started by a minority that thinks they have a monopoly on what constitutes successful gameplay.
Come on into the MA, and watch. You will see what I mean. The real concensus is that concentration of force (what the experten are calling hordes) is the way to capture territory. Some of us play that game, and enjoy it. Obviously, enough to create the dreaded "hordes" some people object to so strongly.
Personally, and I have posted it many times, I think the cooperative tactics and concentration of force make for a more enjoyable experience. I HATE getting gang-raped by two or four enemy planes when I fly around alone. I almost never go plane hunting by myself, since even the experten run for the ack or a friend when they are disadvantaged in a fight. And I think fighting at 1000 feet alt is silly, unrealistic, and counterproductive.
This may come as a shock to you shubie, so brace yourself. Many people have been coming here (for years) to engage in simulated dogfights. The bases were just somthing to fight ABOUT.
Unfortunately I have to say you are correct, the horde is the majority. It boggles my mind that they find capturing undefended bases entertaining. But night after night, month after month, the majority heads to the nearest undefended tool shed, and opens fire!
Maybe we need an arena designed to cater to the hordes. It could have a valley of neutral bases, and a outside perimeter of high bases for the masses to lift off from. Then the object would be to capture as many bases as possible. When the last neutral base is captured, the country with the most abso*****lutely useless bases, WINS!!!!!!!
WHOOPPEEEEEE that sounds like some fun don't it???
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Originally posted by rshubert
Dokgonzo, you really need to get a grip. Try deep breathing exercises, or maybe some xanax. Or try this remedy:
1. Close the garage doors with the car inside.
2. Start the car.
3. Stay near the back of the car, and wait to see if something happens.
Let me know what results you get.
Poor shrubert ... the "please go kill yourself" gambit is just so 80's.
I'd suggest you go feed your shriveled winkie into an electric pencil sharpener, but your genitals are no doubt so calloused from near-constant self abuse that the hide on that nubbin could jam the mechanism.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Poor shrubert ... the "please go kill yourself" gambit is just so 80's.
I'd suggest you go feed your shriveled winkie into an electric pencil sharpener, but your genitals are no doubt so calloused from near-constant self abuse that the hide on that nubbin could jam the mechanism.
Wow. You really are hung up on my genatalia, aren't you. All those sex organ references! It's sooo...ghey. I guess the new term is "metrosexual". When are you having your coming out party? Or have you already? Does the family know?
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Why can t you guys live and let live as it were.
Some people enjoy team play and the sense of achievement in capturing territory. What would be the point in buffs if there was no element of this or strats in the game.
Instead of leaving these bases undefended why don't you up where a base is being attacked and defend the bloody thing. You can't complain that they are undefended and not defend them. I've often upped from bases under attack to furball with the raiders only to find no one else will. Maybe you experten should up at them too. Come on guys then you self motivated furballing guys can dogfight all you like while the team players try and outwit you to capture the base from under you. Now that is a good game. If you just want to dogfight go to the Duel arena and dogfight. The MA is about team play or should be.
I'll go get my coffee now think I'm having caffeine withdrawl. LOL
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Why can t you guys live and let live as it were.
I'll go get my coffee now think I'm having caffeine withdrawl. LOL
LOL That's probably where the pacific attitude is coming from.
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sky... I don't really think that the MA should be about team play much.. I think TOD should be abour team play.
As for the point of bombers... I think the point of bombers is to give peoples girlfriends something to do in the game or people who can't use a joystick. Maybe people with really bad connects from some far corner of the earth.
face it.. for a fun MA we need the fileds to all be about 3/4 of a sector apart and the fields should be easier to capture. more cv's too.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
sky... I don't really think that the MA should be about team play much.. I think TOD should be abour team play.
As for the point of bombers... I think the point of bombers is to give peoples girlfriends something to do in the game or people who can't use a joystick. Maybe people with really bad connects from some far corner of the earth.
face it.. for a fun MA we need the fileds to all be about 3/4 of a sector apart and the fields should be easier to capture. more cv's too.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
LOL lazs, we already knew you thought that.
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well.... never hurts to remind folks... Your views for instance are no mystery to most.
lazs
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Why can t you guys live and let live as it were.
Some people enjoy team play and the sense of achievement in capturing territory. What would be the point in buffs if there was no element of this or strats in the game.
Instead of leaving these bases undefended why don't you up where a base is being attacked and defend the bloody thing. You can't complain that they are undefended and not defend them. I've often upped from bases under attack to furball with the raiders only to find no one else will. Maybe you experten should up at them too. Come on guys then you self motivated furballing guys can dogfight all you like while the team players try and outwit you to capture the base from under you. Now that is a good game. If you just want to dogfight go to the Duel arena and dogfight. The MA is about team play or should be.
Exactly. I will up from an attacked field or from a nearby field to defend. A lot of times its only a handfull of pilots trying to hold back the onslaught. I actually like flying base defense. Sunday night a group of Bish and I defended A90 from an attack from 2 bases and a carrier and had a grand time of it. Great fights!
Most times though it's like Sky says, when to going gets tough the tough guys go home.
Seems like a lot of people want to be on the offensive and not play defense.
If you read the description of the game at the HiTech web site it is not a fighter sim it is an Air Combat sim. There is more to Air Compat than just dogfighting.
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Originally posted by lazs2
sky... I don't really think that the MA should be about team play much.. I think TOD should be abour team play.
As for the point of bombers... I think the point of bombers is to give peoples girlfriends something to do in the game or people who can't use a joystick. Maybe people with really bad connects from some far corner of the earth.
Bit of a fascist attitude you got there. Fact is no matter how much some people practice they are not going to be successful as a fighter pilot. Buffs, jabo and GV's allow these folks to enjoy the game as much as we do.
To me it would get rather boring if it were just fighters. The MA would be nothing but the dualing arena with set sides. HT could setup an arena like this for you guys but my guess it would be as empty as all the other arenas. Not worth it. They have better things to do, like making the game better and working on TOD.
face it.. for a fun MA we need the fileds to all be about 3/4 of a sector apart and the fields should be easier to capture. more cv's too.
[/b]
You have got to be kidding me. Can you say GAMEY! I'm not a huge realism guy but talk about losing it all. Personally I think the bases should be more difficult to take. Also, I never see any attacks on factories or refineries. Why is that? You'd think they would have some affect on limiting the enemies ability to prosecute the war.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's [/B]
Talk about your oximoron!
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Personally, and I have posted it many times, I think the cooperative tactics and concentration of force make for a more enjoyable experience. I HATE getting gang-raped by two or four enemy planes when I fly around alone. I almost never go plane hunting by myself, since even the experten run for the ack or a friend when they are disadvantaged in a fight. And I think fighting at 1000 feet alt is silly, unrealistic, and counterproductive.
HEHEEHE lol, and you say you furball once in a while. 20 friendlies on 3 enme doesn't count as a furball.
The best, hardest part of this game is working a 3 or 4 on one, those that shun it will never get any better at fighting and will always be relagated to tool shed killing and crying on the BBs.
Those that call any aspect of this game air quake have no real understanding about the game and are totally ignorant. As rinse and repeat as either furballing or tool shed killing can be, they are no way anything remotely like quake nor could they be.
The worst part of this game is fighting friendlies for kills. Now I know why I have never seen you on hubert, I try to stay away from the greens and knee deep in reds. Your statements seem to show you fancy being surrounded by greens and buildings.
The best part of the strat game is listening to the strat guys whine when people aren't fighting or porking troops. HAHAHAHAHA You should have heard some of these guys last night. "I can't believe all these guys and no ones porking troops, whhhaaaaaa all they want to do is fight whaaaaaaaaa." These guys went on for 5 mins on range channel as if people cared. Then they cried, "I'm not getting any check sixes whaaaaaa." Well if they would release the range channel and stop the public crying session then maybe some check sixes would have gotten through.
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Originally posted by mars01
HEHEEHE lol, and you say you furball once in a while. 20 friendlies on 3 enme doesn't count as a furball.
The best, hardest part of this game is working a 3 or 4 on one, those that shun it will never get any better at fighting and will always be relagated to tool shed killing and crying on the BBs.
Those that call any aspect of this game air quake have no real understanding about the game and are totally ignorant. As rinse and repeat as either furballing or tool shed killing can be, they are no way anything remotely like quake nor could they be.
The worst part of this game is fighting friendlies for kills. Now I know why I have never seen you on hubert, I try to stay away from the greens and knee deep in reds. Your statements seem to show you fancy being surrounded by greens and buildings.
The best part of the strat game is listening to the strat guys whine when people aren't fighting or porking troops. HAHAHAHAHA You should have heard some of these guys last night. "I can't believe all these guys and no ones porking troops, whhhaaaaaa all they want to do is fight whaaaaaaaaa." These guys went on for 5 mins on range channel as if people cared. Then they cried, "I'm not getting any check sixes whaaaaaa." Well if they would release the range channel and stop the public crying session then maybe some check sixes would have gotten through.
Yawn. heard it all before. If you look for me online, look for shubie--that's me, and I am on during US prime time 4 or 5 nights a week.
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Umm Skydance and Cliff, it is usually only the furball guys that will up and defend bases in the face of overwhelming numbers. SO preaching to the furballers about this style of game play is like preaching to the choir about not going to church.
Tool shed killers will not up into overwhelming odds ( see most of shubert's et-al posts. )
AS for the base defence, yes it can be fun, but most of the time it is chasing pork and auger morons around while they dive in from alt in their pee 51s then zoom away, not much fighting there more like target practice. Unless that force comes in with people that want to fight it will soon get as boring as dropping bombs itself.
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Yawn. heard it all before.
I know hubert I'll try to be make my post as ground breaking as yours. lolhrotffpm :loland I am on during US prime time 4 or 5 nights a week.
Not in the last 4 months.
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Originally posted by mars01
I know hubert I'll try to be make my post as ground breaking as yours. lolhrotffpm :lol Not in the last 4 months.
Been in the middle of relocation since August, but I am back now. Ask the BoPs where I've been.
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Originally posted by mars01
Umm Skydance and Cliff, it is usually only the furball guys that will up and defend bases in the face of overwhelming numbers. SO preaching to the furballers about this style of game play is like preaching to the choir about not going to church.
Tool shed killers will not up into overwhelming odds ( see most of shubert's et-al posts. )
AS for the base defence, yes it can be fun, but most of the time it is chasing pork and auger morons around while they dive in from alt in their pee 51s then zoom away, not much fighting there more like target practice. Unless that force comes in with people that want to fight it will soon get as boring as dropping bombs itself.
BS call. Look at my sortie vs. total time in fighters. I die on the runway A LOT. So do a lot of other guys.
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BS call. Look at my sortie vs. total time in fighters. I die on the runway A LOT. So do a lot of other guys.
So you contradict what you are saying.I HATE getting gang-raped by two or four enemy planes
You hate 2 or 4 so you are telling me that you routinely up in larger odds?
I think fighting at 1000 feet alt is silly, unrealistic, and counterproductive.
Most base defense is done at 5k and below mostly ending up on the deck. Again you say you hate this and it's silly so I am believe you are upping into the horde. Again you contradict what you are saying. You can't have it both ways.
As for your sorties Vs Time it really doesn't prove anything so I will have to go on what you say.
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that it's not the only way to play the game, and that concentrating only on that aspect is silly. And yes, I die a lot upping at vulched fields, which is silly. Sometimes I do silly things, too.
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Yeeeeee haw Go Mars go! Woot!
:D
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Shubie you think all fighting no matter what the alt is unrealistic.. Thats why you go after undefended bases. As for you sky we can only defend so many bases at a time. Why dont you guys attack a base that has enemy upping from it instead of going across the map and attacking where there arent enemy. Last night I went to 2 fields that were being horded. Was some fun fights. The JB's were also around at one of them. We were outnumbered but defended. After awhile of being defended in both cases they gave up to find easier targets.
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Originally posted by lazs2
As for the point of bombers... I think the point of bombers is to give peoples girlfriends something to do in the game or people who can't use a joystick. Maybe people with really bad connects from some far corner of the earth.
:rofl
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Blimey!
Its a game. An AIR COMBAT game. That means dogfighting, bombing, ground attack the lot.
Its A GAME where you play ONLINE WITH OTHER PEOPLE!!!!
if you want to just dogfight go play an offliner simulator. This whole online business is for me about the pleasure of flying and fighting with other people.
Lazs you make yourself sound real self centered and to be honest why are you in a community of players if you don't give a damn about playing cooperatively as part of a teaM?
Maybe I got you wrong. I do hope so.
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OK, let's keep it rolling...
Horde Brawl
Annihilation 2005!!
Grrrr
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Shubie, how about moving it forward about an hour and a half (9:30 E). That would hit 6:30 Pacific. 10:00 would be better given commute/home/eat time but that's getting a bit late on the East Coast).
This THURSDAY, of course.
I can see the defense meeting at a remote base field 15 minutes before start time (I’ll find a place and use goto for Charon on the roster) to count heads. We will then move to an appropriate field off in some corner, announce it on 200 and get it on. Joiners are welcome on both sides, of course. The more the merrier. BTW, what sides are we talking here? I don’t care myself since I usually fly for the side with the lowest numbers.
Charon
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Put up or shaddup!
I don’t think there is any need to micromanage the defense for this special event or any continuing “anti-horde” night. However… some small degree of coordination is required. It’s pretty clear that the offense will be in no rush to drop ord and dive down to the deck and furball. If we want to stop them, or fight period, we will likely have to force that to happen. If we can’t pull it together enough to do that then there is no real reason to complain against the horde players. Like it or not, the game structure fully allows this behavior and it’s up to those who disagree to try and do something about it until that changes. However, I don’t see any real need to go overboard either, nor is that in the personality of most of the “brawling” players or squads and a "low general factor" is how it will have to work to be successful, IMO.
All you guys who have contributed so far to these "anti-horde" threads please get in contact with your squads and get a turnout. To name some names:
Jamusta (of course, the father of the movement)
SlapShot/ mars01
Guppy35
Dedalos/ mechanic
bustr
killnu
Furball
Stang
RedTop
Redd/ Dead Man Flying/ lazs2
WMLute/ DieAz
plank
anton
airbumba
FiLtH
victor
Elfie
mojo55
A_Clown
We can add Shane and Urchin to the list as well, I believe. Don't be slobberdonkies!
And please have somebody from the squad get in touch with me via e-mail (it's enabled). DoK has put together a thumbnail sketch of the likely attack and defense scenarios that I will pass along. There are likely several useful roles that need to be filled and it would be nice to have some dedicated volunteers. Fortunately, some of those roles are right up the alley of various squads SOP. If by some bizarre chance (I know I’m kidding myself here) we have too many anti-hordes show up and it gets too lopsided, we can just split up and have some move to the offense side :)
If it does come down to, “Let’s just show up and wing it…” that’s cool too. But keep in mind a few basic realities and operate accordingly:
1. The horde will likely work to avoid contact. If you want to fight it it’s up to you to make that happen. This means altitude. There is never going to be enough. Take one step forward but two steps up. Eventually (at least a 1/2 sector out) stop taking steps forward and concentrating on steps up. If you think you’re high enough go higher -- you can always dive. (I think that the more successful this is initially the lower the fight will become). A dedicated high fighter sweep and high base defense effort would help… Always work to grab more altitude and when there, keep it.
2. Discipline. Don’t gain all that altitude just to throw it away on the first conga line you see at 500 feet. A good opportunity for experienced squad leaders to evaluate and allocate resources as needed. Now, if it’s the main strike force… Similarly, there’s no need to rush single handedly into bad odds if there are some friends close behind. Work to have close odds if it’s practical -- it’s a lot more fun when you’re not working the glory hole.
3. Be prepared to chip in with a goon/supplies if needed. Be prepared to conduct and support smart “offensive” defense if the situation calls for it. Be prepared for attacks from different bases, and planes that arrive late to the battle (bombers, jabos, goons) at high altitude after the initial contact has dropped the defense down to the deck (go back to point 1). Always work to grab more altitude.
4. Don’t expect a horde of Zeroes or F4Fs. If you want to shoot them you have to catch them. From someone whose favorite ride is likely the Zero it sucks to be us. If you want to catch them then you know what you likely need to be flying (or at least how high you need to be and where you need to be positioned). The battle may very well slow down and drop down later. For any hi cap think in terms of fast and cannons (to catch jabos or stop heavies at 30K). If you must fly fun and interesting planes Alt can give you a shot if you have enough and time it right. Or... think about how you can use those planes in a proactive manner given how horde attacks typically develop. Always work to grab more altitude.
5. Osties and M-16s are nice and useful in the appropriate numbers. But it's better if you stop them in the air short of the base. Something to keep in mind.
Again, I see this as being a squad/squad leader/individual driven defense. See what needs to be done, report on new developments, work together (loosely), fly smart and get it done. My generalship is over :) If this works out it may even become a source of weekly fun. Shubie has graciously volunteered to keep attacking a single defended target and give up winning the war effort for an evening. If he has come to fight, then all us non war winning complainers could make a few concessions as well.
Charon
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I've been playing sid mier's Pirates! the past 2 weeks, and ummmm.... hordes are good!!! especially if they're mine!
but then i need to brush some AH rust off, so I guess this is as good a way as any since it'll be so easy and mindless. :D
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Originally posted by rshubert
Wow. (Blather, blather ...)
You responses are predictable, boring, and hackneyed. I can only hope you display the same level of prowess in the virtual skies so your minions will die in droves.
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well haven't heard or read the word "blimey" in a while.
I am not here to be part of a "team". I the game has many aspects and for one reason or another, people choose to do some over others... a very few people enjoy or pretend to enjoy all aspects.
Most aspects of AH are not in the least bit fun for me. I come here to have fun... yes... I admit it... I pay money to play a game so that (gasp) I can have my selfish fun.... worse... I am an advocate for my kind of (gasp) "fun" over all others.
So no, you haven't read me wrong in the least. If you opened your eyes you would see that most of the guys with any time under their belt are selfishly using the little time they have for playing an online game to (dare I say it?) to.... have fun.
My squaddies and guys I know the green guy in touble are about as far as I go in being a "team"... And I only do that because it leads to...... fun.
And yes... besides being disgusted by the hordes... we are laughing at their antics.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by Charon
OK, let's keep it rolling...
Horde Brawl
Annihilation 2005!!
Grrrr
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Shubie, how about moving it forward about an hour and a half (9:30 E). That would hit 6:30 Pacific. 10:00 would be better given commute/home/eat time but that's getting a bit late on the East Coast).
This THURSDAY, of course.
I can see the defense meeting at a remote base field 15 minutes before start time (I’ll find a place and use goto for Charon on the roster) to count heads. We will then move to an appropriate field off in some corner, announce it on 200 and get it on. Joiners are welcome on both sides, of course. The more the merrier. BTW, what sides are we talking here? I don’t care myself since I usually fly for the side with the lowest numbers.
Charon
OK, 9:30 it is. We'll be there. Any idea what map will be up?
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Originally posted by Shane
I've been playing sid mier's Pirates! the past 2 weeks, and ummmm.... hordes are good!!! especially if they're mine!
but then i need to brush some AH rust off, so I guess this is as good a way as any since it'll be so easy and mindless. :D
Why do you insist that having a purpose for your furball fetish is mindless?
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This is a game. In that perspective everything in it is relatively mindless by definition ....or you might be taking it just a few few orders of magnitude too seriously..
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who says i'm a furballer? :confused:
i am a slayer of slobberdonkeys!!! :mad:
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OK, 9:30 it is. We'll be there. Any idea what map will be up?
Not a clue, or even what bases will be up.
I will try to pick a base on the mutual front that is undamamged and away from most of the concentrated action. Of course, after we start I imagine/hope :) that will take on a life of its own.
I take it you will be flying for Bish?
I personally have no problem flying for either Knights or Rooks. I will, off hand, pick Rooks, though if there are any serious objections please let me know ASAP.
****
for the defense
I will start out on a runway at a base far to the rear 15 minutes before start time for a quick meet and greet. Feel free to join and spawn, if interested, so we can mutually discuss a few things.
Charon
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Originally posted by Zanth
This is a game. In that perspective everything in it is relatively mindless by definition ....or you might be taking it just a few few orders of magnitude too seriously..
Zanth, that is MY line of reasoning. It is copyright-protected. This will serve as official notice of violation.
Send me money. Lots of money. How much do you have? Send that amount.
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We'll be flying bish, and will let YOU know where we will attack from just prior to launch--or whenever the spies (not you, don't get me wrong...) see the mission posted. Target is our choice, as I see it. Is that agreeable? Your tactics, start base, and numbers are your call, and I DON'T WANT TO KNOW. It will make it more interesting, that way.
shubie
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It sounds a bit like you're trying to squeeze in some milkrun instead of taking a base that's actually ready to fight with some degree of opposition. In fact, it would seem pretty easy for you to send most of your force against one target, then milkrun an undefended target with some NOE attack and wave the victory flag. Or, we split our forces into thirds (to cover three bases) and you still have 3-1 odds at the base under attack. I don’t really think that is acceptable. As it is, your organizational skills should be able to overcome our gaggle of furballers in a H2H fight if you can execute and the defense fails to execute. Or maybe you can’t take a base if it is ready and the odds are somewhat even? If so, no problem there, just admit it and well not bother with this “event,” just up and look for a fight, even look for the mighty BoPs.
[or, we do it your way but instead of focusing on one base we focus on stopping the assault in general. It's just too easy to "game" a single base using your approach.]
As to spies, frankly, I can't imagine anyone posting against horde gameplay going to the effor to spy (except for that shifty Lazs). I actually don't think they would care all that much if you bothered to send spies to our little meeting. Anyway, it's all about execution.
Charon
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In
I think most know where I stand on this issue.
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I believe the majority of anti horde posters are knits. We seem to have the majority of the so called quakers. Charon I dont really care where or how he wants to attack I just need to know which horde is his and what area. If they attack different bases in the same area so be it. That will make their hording least effective. I doubt this will happen. The knits are getting better at calling out the hordes although certain times I dont think they pay attention. WMScrap even made an anti horde mission even tho the nut case launched us from the wrong field, but it ended up becoming a fun fight.
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Originally posted by Charon
It sounds a bit like you're trying to squeeze in some milkrun instead of taking a base that's actually ready to fight with some degree of opposition. In fact, it would seem pretty easy for you to send most of your force against one target, then milkrun an undefended target with some NOE attack and wave the victory flag. Or, we split our forces into thirds (to cover three bases) and you still have 3-1 odds at the base under attack. I don’t really think that is acceptable. As it is, your organizational skills should be able to overcome our gaggle of furballers in a H2H fight if you can execute and the defense fails to execute. Or maybe you can’t take a base if it is ready and the odds are somewhat even? If so, no problem there, just admit it and well not bother with this “event,” just up and look for a fight, even look for the mighty BoPs.
[or, we do it your way but instead of focusing on one base we focus on stopping the assault in general. It's just too easy to "game" a single base using your approach.]
As to spies, frankly, I can't imagine anyone posting against horde gameplay going to the effor to spy (except for that shifty Lazs). I actually don't think they would care all that much if you bothered to send spies to our little meeting. Anyway, it's all about execution.
Charon
No, I am not trying to put one over on you, and I am sure you're not trying to put one over on me. Remember, my heavy stuff will need LOTS of time to gain any real altitude, and your light stuff will just jump up into the stratosphere.
Heck, I am telling you where we are launching from. You guys need to do SOME work here, part of the whole argument is that we (the horde types) don't want to be sacrificial targets for your marksmanship practice.
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I don't mind either, and that's fine with me and probably fine with him. Shubie did lay down a challenge, but perhaps it's getting to restriceted and confined in scope. I did think it might make a good event to bring people together and try out the idea.
If you wnat to change the meeting country to Knights that's fine with me. I also don't want anybody to think this is more complex than it is (and certainly not that I am trying to be some "anti-horde" general of some sort). I'm just trying to keep things rolling, because you did come up with a very proactive answer to the issue and I can see it fading away without some initial push. It would be fun to up at least once a week, if not more regularly, and make a good fight if none were there naturally.
Charon
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No, I am not trying to put one over on you, and I am sure you're not trying to put one over on me. Remember, my heavy stuff will need LOTS of time to gain any real altitude, and your light stuff will just jump up into the stratosphere.
Ok, no problem. Probably getting a little too anal about things anyway. We may be flying Knights but that will be worked out well before hand.
Charon
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Originally posted by mars01
Umm Skydance and Cliff, it is usually only the furball guys that will up and defend bases in the face of overwhelming numbers. SO preaching to the furballers about this style of game play is like preaching to the choir about not going to church.
Tool shed killers will not up into overwhelming odds ( see most of shubert's et-al posts. )
AS for the base defence, yes it can be fun, but most of the time it is chasing pork and auger morons around while they dive in from alt in their pee 51s then zoom away, not much fighting there more like target practice. Unless that force comes in with people that want to fight it will soon get as boring as dropping bombs itself.
Didn't mean to downgrade the furballer at all. I would catagorise myself as somewhat of a furballer. I agree with you, base defense is mostly chasing the dive and runners. One thing that really irritates me, and I am not easily irritated, are all the suiciders. I can understand compressing your plane. I've done it a few time in a 38 but I can pull out of most dives in a pony yet I see these guy go nose 1st into the VH, radar, CV. I still think there should be some kind of penalty for suicide attacks. Not sure if the game can differentiate between compression and a deliberate suicide.
My main point was that you will have like 15-20 pilots defending a base but as soon as we get outnumbered half if not more will not come back after getting shot down. The guys who stay are mostly familier call-signs that I've flown defense with in the past.
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Yeah we want to minimize the restrictions. Let them use their strategy and we will do the same. All we need to know is the area and put some sort of restriction to keep them within a few sectors. That way there is no way to avoid contact. We want this to be a challenge but also be fun for everyone. Lets say we pick an area and they can have the option to attack say 4 bases in that area from any direction or alt.
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Originally posted by Charon
OK, let's keep it rolling...
Horde Brawl
Annihilation 2005!!
Grrrr
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Shubie, how about moving it forward about an hour and a half (9:30 E). That would hit 6:30 Pacific. 10:00 would be better given commute/home/eat time but that's getting a bit late on the East Coast).
This THURSDAY, of course.
I can see the defense meeting at a remote base field 15 minutes before start time (I’ll find a place and use goto for Charon on the roster) to count heads. We will then move to an appropriate field off in some corner, announce it on 200 and get it on. Joiners are welcome on both sides, of course. The more the merrier. BTW, what sides are we talking here? I don’t care myself since I usually fly for the side with the lowest numbers.
Charon
I'm EST, 9:30-10:00 is good for me. I routinely give up sleep for a good fight.
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Originally posted by rshubert
We'll be flying bish, and will let YOU know where we will attack from just prior to launch--or whenever the spies (not you, don't get me wrong...) see the mission posted. Target is our choice, as I see it. Is that agreeable? Your tactics, start base, and numbers are your call, and I DON'T WANT TO KNOW. It will make it more interesting, that way.
shubie
Well, I'm Bish and have no dsire to change. I'm kinda neutral on this whole issue.
Shubie, I'll join you and fly fighter cover for your horde.
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Originally posted by Charon
I don't mind either, and that's fine with me and probably fine with him. Shubie did lay down a challenge, but perhaps it's getting to restriceted and confined in scope. I did think it might make a good event to bring people together and try out the idea.
If you wnat to change the meeting country to Knights that's fine with me. I also don't want anybody to think this is more complex than it is (and certainly not that I am trying to be some "anti-horde" general of some sort). I'm just trying to keep things rolling, because you did come up with a very proactive answer to the issue and I can see it fading away without some initial push. It would be fun to up at least once a week, if not more regularly, and make a good fight if none were there naturally.
Charon
Now there is one of the best ideas I've seen on this board. Can you imagine regular challanges going out cross country?
To the horders I say, show your nads, anounce to the target country you are going to hit them somewhere in a 4 sector square launching in 15-20 minutes or something like that. H311, I'd even join a horde for something like this.
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this thread is like I hate atomic weapons so we gonna nuke any country having them
:rolleyes: ;)
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
this thread is like I hate atomic weapons so we gonna nuke any country having them
:rolleyes: ;)
Yes, but I think something very cool has come out of all this whining.
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Originally posted by jamusta
Yeah we want to minimize the restrictions. Let them use their strategy and we will do the same. All we need to know is the area and put some sort of restriction to keep them within a few sectors. That way there is no way to avoid contact. We want this to be a challenge but also be fun for everyone. Lets say we pick an area and they can have the option to attack say 4 bases in that area from any direction or alt.
Without knowing what terrain is up it's harder to call this. If we have one of the ubermaps, it won't be tough to find an area of front with 3 or 4 bases each where not many other people are. On the smaller maps, it may get tricky to distinguish one drooling, puss-filled horde from the next.
I'll try to be there - my DSL line has been acting funny with all the rains in LA, but we'll see.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Without knowing what terrain is up it's harder to call this. If we have one of the ubermaps, it won't be tough to find an area of front with 3 or 4 bases each where not many other people are. On the smaller maps, it may get tricky to distinguish one drooling, puss-filled horde from the next.
I'll try to be there - my DSL line has been acting funny with all the rains in LA, but we'll see.
No excuses unless your covered in mud!
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Originally posted by Charon
Ok, no problem. Probably getting a little too anal about things anyway. We may be flying Knights but that will be worked out well before hand.
Charon
Or a suggestion...we could load a map up in the Special Events Arena and have at it...then the furballers and horders from all countries could gravitate to one side or the other. Or not, it's just a thought.
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Originally posted by jamusta
I believe the majority of anti horde posters are knits. We seem to have the majority of the so called quakers. Charon I dont really care where or how he wants to attack I just need to know which horde is his and what area. If they attack different bases in the same area so be it. That will make their hording least effective. I doubt this will happen. The knits are getting better at calling out the hordes although certain times I dont think they pay attention. WMScrap even made an anti horde mission even tho the nut case launched us from the wrong field, but it ended up becoming a fun fight.
Its starting to sound like I will need to re-enlist, and I will have to check out the knit side on entry.
Anton
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Or a suggestion...we could load a map up in the Special Events Arena and have at it...then the furballers and horders from all countries could gravitate to one side or the other. Or not, it's just a thought.
Not a bad idea, but It's probably a little late right now. I suppose your plan at the appropriate time and we'll probably wing it.
I take it Kinghts and not rooks... Right Guys?
Charon
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Originally posted by Zanth
This is a game. In that perspective everything in it is relatively mindless by definition ....or you might be taking it just a few few orders of magnitude too seriously..
Well said Zanth! I have enough trouble taking myself seriously let alone this or any other game. Don't you folks have enough stress in your real lives? ;) This type of debate always reminds me of playing kickball in grade school and arguing over wether a goal went between the "goal sneakers" or over one of them. ;)
In fact, it's never the game we take too seriously...it's ourselves.
HH
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Big fight tonight!
No Talent Base Capture Dweebs Vs. Heroic A2A killers
or
Dedicated War Winning Patriots vs. Selfish Quaker Furball Dweebs...
you make the call!
Look/goto for Shubie (bish) leading the BoP Horde and look/goto me (knights) as a point of reference (I ain't leadin' nobody, but I'll be there) for the knight counter air. Bring your favorite toy.
Put up or shut up! Feel the pain, relish the hate!
GRRRRRRR
:mad: :mad: :mad:
Starts
9:30 E
8:30 C
7:30 M
6:30 P
Charon
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I doubt I can make it, I have an appointment scheduled to run into that time, but this concept makes me want to fly again.....
I will follow closely
Anton
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"Dedicated War Winning Patriots vs. Selfish Quaker Furball Dweebs"
LOL
Thanks Charon...another pair of boxers ruined.
hh
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Man I would love to but Thursday thru Saturday are girlfriend nights. So I either have to start a fight with her so she doesn't want to see me or miss it hahahaha.
I'm in for anything Sun thru Wed!!!!!
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Man I would love to but Thursday thru Saturday are girlfriend nights. So I either have to start a fight with her so she doesn't want to see me or miss it hahahaha.
I would have probably said...
"Man, I would love too but I just dropped a transmission this afternoon and I have to get it fixed up and bolted back on by sunrise so I can get to work :)"
Come on Mars, even my whipped buddy Rutger is putting the GF on hold tonight. Anybody else from the 13th showing up?
Charon
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mars you wuss girlfriend ack does not count. If it was wife ack then that would have drawn some ooos and ahhhhs. hahaha
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Cmon wife Ack is easy she has to stay lolh. If I haven't been putting her off all week lolh.
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God I am such a loser!!!
Ok I put my girl friend off another night. I'm in.
First Shot Fired Now -
[SIZE=12]Bombs are for Pu$$ies!!!!!!! :D[/SIZE]
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Originally posted by mars01
Man I would love to but Thursday thru Saturday are girlfriend nights. So I either have to start a fight with her so she doesn't want to see me or miss it hahahaha.
I'm in for anything Sun thru Wed!!!!!
:rofl
Wuss :D
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Whoa! Nevermind wtg Mars! Nice to have yer balls back isn't it :D
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Whoa! Nevermind wtg Mars! Nice to have yer balls back isn't it :D
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Back! I had to give them away to get out tonight. LOLH
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All I can say about tonight is... Well I really cant say nothing. The time of us virtual fighter jocks are gone. Shubie has proven that the strat guys rule the skies of AH. Myself and Charon tried to do some good and it failed. Very few wanted to challenge a larger force. I am ashamed to even mention how many tried to fight back. I will no longer whine about any gameplay that goes on in here. I will say the game is not as fun as it once was. Shubie it was fun and I hope you continue to attack defended bases.
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Yeah,
Shubie. Good attacks, good organization and your squad was ready to fight. Looked like Mars and DoK and Jam and me showed up. It was fun for a short period of time. That Mossie raid was a nice change of pace (if it was you guys, if not Good Job whoever). Good fighting for a while there. Then... poof... 5-1 or 1-5. The defense evaporated to "greener" pastures, except for guys like Vudak and his friends that were putting up a fight later on.
And Jam, great idea, nice proactive approach. As those few engagements showed, it's a hell of a lot of fun when while it lasted. I have one more idea I might explore after I flesh it out.
Charon
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Originally posted by jamusta
All I can say about tonight is... Well I really cant say nothing. The time of us virtual fighter jocks are gone. Shubie has proven that the strat guys rule the skies of AH. Myself and Charon tried to do some good and it failed. Very few wanted to challenge a larger force. I am ashamed to even mention how many tried to fight back. I will no longer whine about any gameplay that goes on in here. I will say the game is not as fun as it once was. Shubie it was fun and I hope you continue to attack defended bases.
Dunno what you're talking about here but we've been fighting (and are currently fighting) pretty bad odds for A7... Fun times :)
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I went up for just one flight ... I don't know if its this terrain or my DSL line acting up again, but the warps were real bad. Since they were worst around the fields, I'll assume it was the terrain.
Anyway ... dragged my 51 up to 25K to hunt dweebs. Yes, some of us still can hunt alone. Every Bish I encountered made at most one half-hearted merge before either extending to Jupiter or diving for something that they could justify as a better target.
Then a Fw looked like he was trying to keep me busy S of ... whatever the hell field it was. A876543. So I eased West a little, Bish 190 in long trail but no threat, and saw a lovely sight. A nice cluster of dots at 20K. Yum yum. 11 Mosi's splooging along towards the base.
So I call it out to folks and see the message getting relayed on distance channel. Haul the Pony around and dive in. My intent is to shoot a couple down if possible, but scattering 'em is just as good as it buys the defense time and pushes the fight lower.
Bore in fast - real fast - right at the edge of buffet - tough to aim if you aren't used to operating at these speeds. They start to break turn as I hope - except one who isn't watching. He be dead.
After plowing through I extend out a little to survey the carnage and see what the high cover 190 and Spit (who started trailing in late) are up to. The Knights are on 'em now and it's a melee over the field. Even more so because the warps or frame choppiness or who knows what.
I just start making high speed runs on anything red and calling 6 to whoever needs it. A Bish Yak tried to sneak in on me but he didn't read my energy state right - he cranked it in hard only to find me still going plenty fast and ended up with nothing but air to shoot at. I pulled around a little to keep him interested - so he'd slow down more - so someone green could kill him quicker - which they did.
When I'm down to a minute of fuel I do Ye Olde belly slide landing to get off the runway ASAP. 1 kill, 3 assists, FH's still up.
Dunno ... I saw nothing really awe inspiring in the attack save for numbers. And there just wasn't critical mass on the defending side to make this work out.
I think in a way the MA does mirror reality in one respect. That is, a handful of really experienced people can make a big difference, but at some point numbers just become too overwhelming.
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Vudak Im pseaking of the initial push. Front lines were all the way to 79 and 85. Seeing shubies well organized attack was myself and charon. the other guys were spread out trying to figure out where shubie was attacking. I saw myself and charon the rest were red. The others as I said were trying to make it there. There wasnt a big secret where the mission was going as it created 2 full dar bars as it crossed sectors. We just didnt know what base they were going to hit. Called out the attack over country channel ahead of time even as they were upping from 89. We had maybe 10 players show up. 85 was being attacked by our own group. Did they help I dont think so? Suddenly they all but vanished. They left to easier pastures. I guess I was hoping to much but was dissappointed in the lack of help. Those of us on this BBS looking for fights whether against the horde or 1 v 1 are becoming extinct. The fight at 7 is fun with fighters, bombers, jabos and gv's all over the place. I think that should be the norm. That is the type of gameplay I am trying to promote. I dont want a furballing arena. I dont want a pure strat arena. MA should be an arena where the 2 meet just like at 7.
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Dunno ... I saw nothing really awe inspiring in the attack save for numbers. And there just wasn't critical mass on the defending side to make this work out.
I'm at the point DoK, where some degree of organization and some willingness to fight become awe inspiring. Shubie brought his and for all the talk (over months) only a few were interested in bringing their's.
It's at the point where if your idea of fun is flying around in a small squad and dogfigthing whomever decides to dribble into your furball... well, expect to be increasingly disappointed. If you want action and want a fight you have to bring it to them. They will not come to you. And if you won't work to bring it to them, there's not much point in *****ing and moaning about it because the MA fully facilitates this gameplay and a lot of people have decided that's how they want to play. HTC may change things, then again they may not. So get used to it, or work to take matters into your own hands and take the fight to them.
FWIW I haven't flown a Dora in probably a year, but I upped in one last night for the first mission. I haven't loaded bombs more than five times since I've been here, but if that's what it takes to fight back then that's what I'll do. Or I'll just shut up and play, or go somewhere else like I did when I came here from Gamestorm.
Charon
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The horde mission consisted of 110s, Nikis, one Me-262, and P-38s. (edit) oops, i forgot the mossies.
One group of Nikis placed a BARCAP between the target field and the two adjacent enemy fields. Their mission was to keep large numbers of fighters from getting to the heavies.
One group of Nikis set up a strike CAP over the field.
The 262 took out radar at the target and one adjacent field. Strafing. In a 262. At 550 mph. I particularly liked that touch.
The P-38s and 110s were tasked with the usual--VH, FH, ack and town. That went well. Two goons (me one of them) were killed by goon hunters, but we got a third and fourth goon up, and the capture went according to plan. Several enemy fighters made it to the base, but were unable to defeat the CAP and get to the goon.
As Jamusta said, the whole trick here is a little organization. Many of the Freijagd types don't want anything to do with anything that smacks of cooperation, and that is our only advantage. A truly organized anti-horde would eat us alive half the time. The other half, we would acheive our goal.
A good time was had by all. honored enemies, try again soon!
shubie
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The bottom line was Shubie had more people participate on his side.
Jam & Charon, I liked this whole idea. I think it's great. I only wish more people would be intersted in cooperating and setting up these big fights as opposed to just going out fighter sweeping.
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organization and doing boring intercepts against inept simmers and taking orders is fundamentaly against all the beliefs of furballers.
the main belief being that organization is for people who can't fight and is the enemy of fun.... second being that killing buildings and Ai is not what we came online for and lastly...
that it was better at one time and could be again but that "organizxation" is absolutely not the way for that to happen.
I also believe that only about 10% of the players read here and that probly 80% of the horde can't read in any case.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Yeah the organized showing last night by the knights was paltry to say the least. I think there were only about 4 or 5 other guys that responded to Jam and Charone and only about 4 total on our vox channel.
The 262 that was a little over the top. IMO we could have upped 262s and there would have been no chance for you guys, but that was not the point. I actually wanted to fight.
I upped with Dipstick since he was also taking a Jug to start, you know cause I hate being oprganised :rolleyes:, then Dip went to get some ice cream and he got cherried by a 262. We did reupp in temps to even it out a little and ran into the nikis. 2 vs 5+. We did ok, was fun, then Dip had to run.
The next run I upped a 4Hog, the whole time I think I saw 2 or 3 greens and 10+ reds, still was fun.
Notice a trend here, No furball all fast rides. Personally I don't think you are going to get a lot of furball guys involved here. It's not their kind of fight. This is more the late ride guys, fast machines at high alt. A lot of BnZ and extending.
IMO it was fun, I like being vastly outnumbered, it makes 2 or 3 Vs 1 seem like childs play.
Congratulations you rallied the horde, it does it by itself every day, there’s an accomplishment.
Trying to get furballers to climb to 20k, fly late model rides and BnZ. Do that and you have accomplished something.
Get your Horde to take early war rides and come in below 8k, then you have done something.
Just telling the horde what to carry and where to go, not that big of a stretch.
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organization and doing boring intercepts against inept simmers and taking orders is fundamentaly against all the beliefs of furballers.
the main belief being that organization is for people who can't fight and is the enemy of fun.... second being that killing buildings and Ai is not what we came online for and lastly...
that it was better at one time and could be again but that "organizxation" is absolutely not the way for that to happen.
I also believe that only about 10% of the players read here and that probly 80% of the horde can't read in any case
That's great and all, but that's not the reality of the MA. Until the HTC gods change that (and I have seen no indication that they are considering it) it's not going to get better.
Smaller maps would be great.
Closer fields would be great.
Easier capture maybe.
A return to the Airwarrior war winning concept, or some other similar proposal, would be great.
My opinion on these or yours... ain't our coad.
Personally, I like to fight. But I don't particularly like odds worse than say 2 or 3 to one against me, particularly since I like early war rides and turnfighting and usually don't have 5 or 6 buddies along to help out. Don't like watching planes ignore me, fly 1,000 feet over me to die to base ack killing a building. TS for me I guess if I don't make sure they are denied that option. That means being higher and or faster. Not my absolute 1st choice in gameplay, but actually getting to shoot at planes is more fun than watching them buzz around and ignore me.
Personally, I have avoided organization like the plague to the point of being a lone wolf (flying with a few friends here and there) since 1993. You BK's have already embraced organization far more than I ever have in the past. But, times have changed. So I either quit AH out of boredom and frustration, or I try to take the lemon and see if some lemonaid can be made.
Apparently you guys seem to be having some fun issues too. A number of people are given the threads. Well, you ain't gonna change the hordes. You can work together to make an actual 1-1 huge furballing fight, even letting others who may want to fight to take a fully defended base process do their thing, or you can whine. It might be more helpful to whine at HTC though. If you want the old days back they are going to have to come from there through changes in the game infrastructure.
Charon
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Mars when we ran into them it was pure numbers that got them threw. The rides they were in were not bad. I saw a bunch of n1ks, p38's amd 110's i believe. They were above me below me around me. The n1ks did the fighting while the heavies kept pushing through. Knowing that furballers dont like organization or climbing I didnt want to set up some type of mission. What I was hoping for was that players would answer the call. As you saw none really did. If they didnt want to fly high they could have simply waited for them to hit the base and fight them then. This map was perfect for what we wanted to do. Bases really close. When they hit 80 I was upping from 74. I got shot down like 4 times over 80 before they captured it. I have complained about the hordes and the fact that they attack undefended bases. Last night they took 3 in a head to head fight. Players complain about lack of fights we made one and few showed up.
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I agree with your assesment of how things could be better. It will either happen or all the people who enjoy the horde aspect will own the game. If they get bored and leave new guys will take their place.
Ihope that the horde of new guys who don't want to fight is not the only way that HT can make money but if it is then he owes it to his company to cater to them since it is his lively hood and he needs to make a living.
so far... it appears that most new guys do not like to fight other players if there is a chance that they will be in danger.
as for the BK's... little or no organization there except... we spred out and try to find a fight... when we do we let the others know.... just a bunch of extra eyes really.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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I was hoping this would turn out better. Guess ill put my 14.95 back in my pocket. I wont play the horde game, not even if thats the only thing the majority wants.
If I remember correctly, this game was formed by people who felt AW was lacking. Perhaps someone disgusted with what AH has become, will make their own better game.
A_Clown
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Yeah no doubt Jam
on a valient effort.
I thought more knights would have joined together, as it was there were quite a few if not equal numbers in the area. Unfortunatly, I didn't find many working together or fighting together, other than you, Charone, Dip and Dok. I guess that is just the knights or where I was at the time.
I think this little expieriment just proves Laz right, the current gameplay favors the Horde and there isn't that much too it. Overwhelm, drop buildings, drop troops, move on. That is about the extent to the planning needed.
I have to hand it to the Rooks they do work together and come when called. Knights not so much lolh.
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What if you guys who feel that the new player base is hopless/helpless, decided to try and help a few of them?
Maybe they do what they do because they do not know any other way.
I know when I first started the game a long time ago I hadn't a clue what was going on. I didnt even know this BB existed until a year or so after playing. I was lost and could just about keep my plane in the air let alone fight in a furball.
I will admit, 3 years ago or so when I first started, the game was an entirely different game but new players were still new and the vets were still vets. Back then it seemed more people were willing to help out a new player. Squads would adopt new players and help them and before long they weren't so new anymore. Not that this doesnt happen still, but I think its on a much lesser level.
We have the TA and the trainers in there do an excellent job but they can't do it all. They can't be everwhere at once and are not able to help everyone at once.
So if you guys want change, maybe it would be best to help some new players and show them what the game was like a few years back.
You know that you dont need to go 20K to get into a fight and live, I know it, and alot of the older players know it as well. But do the new players understand this? I doubt it.
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Maybe I should swap sides again
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Originally posted by jamusta
What I was hoping for was that players would answer the call. As you saw none really did. . . . . . . Last night they took 3 in a head to head fight. Players complain about lack of fights we made one and few showed up.
You do realize that the call sometimes comes when we are defending another base right? I saw the call but at the time I had found a pretty big NOE comming to 103 I think. I delayed them just enough by killing their three goons and when help arrived, they all died and left. No sustained furbal was achieved. In anycase, just because we did not show up does not mean we did not want help.
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I was a bit torn with this. I didn’t want to scare people away with all the talk of organization, but at the same time it was clear that organization to some small degree was absolutely required. DoK outlined a likely plan of attack, and a plan of defense/offense. There were some elements that would lead to success, calling for some organization, but not to the extent that any squad participating would be forced to do anything drastically different than what it usually does. Here is what I envisioned:
Guys like the 56th like to do high altitude fighter sweeps. There is a need for high altitude fighter sweeps to push the horde down to the deck. If they join in they do their thing and contribute to the cause. They even lead themselves in the process. They would have found a bunch of lower N1K2s, but still flying a bit higher than they should have been. Meat on the table assuming they don’t just like to cherry pick the occasional high alt 109.
Guys like the BKs like to furball and create a local meat grinder on the deck. So do I. While the odds were somewhat even I had two or three multi-kill sorties in a Ki-84 over the base without going above 5K. Couldn’t ask for more fun.
Some squads like to fight A2A and A2G, but they don’t like to fly for or against 5-1 odds. Great chance to do their thing and contribute.
However, most of the friendlies at the base under attack were part of one of the knight hordes. The fun lasted for a few minutes then, in the face of initial defeat, all of a sudden the big green bars facing the small red blips off to the remote west got even bigger. Welcome to the gangbang once again. With some MINIMAL organization there would have been a good fight at the next base under attack. Or we could have launched an effort to retake the captured base and created a good fight. The relative odds would have stayed acceptable for fun, if not any real long-term success. The high alt guys, furballers and fighting strat guys could have all done their individual things with the luxury of sufficient odds to keep the gangbangs in check. If the fight evaporated on the enemy side, there would have been enough mass to go somewhere else and create a similar fight.
As to our horde answering the call -- I gave up on that a long time ago Jam. There are no differences between countries in this regard. The only people likely to answer the call are those flying in the small green blips facing the big red bardars. The organizational goal is to bring those small communities together to create a force at least 1 bardar bar in size. When that happens it is a hell of a lot of fun.
FWIW, this gameplay shift is not new to the genre. Been there, done that during the AW Gamestorm/EA era. Today in AH, if you like reasonable odds and old school gameplay you might find 45 minutes total a night with some effort (speaking for myself). With AW it got to be 45 minutes every 2-3 nights. You could log on and not see a single fight worth joining two or three nights in a row. You would sometimes fly two sectors just for the hope of a fight. I have a feeling it will get that way here, probably sooner than later.
Charon
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You do realize that the call sometimes comes when we are defending another base right? I saw the call but at the time I had found a pretty big NOE comming to 103 I think. I delayed them just enough by killing their three goons and when help arrived, they all died and left. No sustained furbal was achieved. In anycase, just because we did not show up does not mean we did not want help.
That's the type of thing that usually constitutes some of the 10 minutes of fun I can manage to dig up each half hour of play. Wouldn't it have been nice to then have the mass to chase them down wherever they run to? Remove the option to hide?
Charon
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Originally posted by mars01
Congratulations you rallied the horde, it does it by itself every day, there’s an accomplishment.
Trying to get furballers to climb to 20k, fly late model rides and BnZ. Do that and you have accomplished something.
Get your Horde to take early war rides and come in below 8k, then you have done something.
Just telling the horde what to carry and where to go, not that big of a stretch.
Setting up a good (note GOOD) mission is not really that easy, unless you have a large squad like I do. There are certain other groups that we work well with and a bunch of inDUHvidualists that won't cooperate at all--hell, they jeer you when you ask for help.
Getting a mission to really work involves choosing good people to carry out portions of the mission by using their heads. There's no lockstep formula for any fight, enemy response is not always the same. You figure out a plan, and then rely on a bunch of high-strung volunteers to carry it out. It's a lot like herding cats.
Some guys like this aspect of the game, others don't. As far as I am concerned, play the game any way you like, nobody is forcing you to do anything you don't want to do.
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Originally posted by Charon
That's the type of thing that usually constitutes some of the 10 minutes of fun I can manage to dig up each half hour of play. Wouldn't it have been nice to then have the mass to chase them down wherever they run to? Remove the option to hide?
Charon
Actually we tried to find them. I think it might have been a mission and once it failed, everyone went their own way.
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Does Not Matter What You Call It!!! It is TEAM WORK, and thats why you have a hard time stopping it! The people who complain about team work are people who dont work well with others. The Axis Army tried the same thing in WWII. Only to FAIL.(The SS)
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Does Not Matter What You Call It!!! It is TEAM WORK, and thats why you have a hard time stopping it! The people who complain about team work are people who dont work well with others. The Axis Army tried the same thing in WWII. Only to FAIL.(The SS)
LOL. This thread needed a little levity.
Bluto: What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter: Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the going gets tough . . . the tough get going. Who's with me? Let's Go! Come on! AAAAEEEEEGGGHHHH!!
Charon
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Originally posted by Charon
LOL. This thread needed a little levity.
Bluto: What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter: Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the going gets tough . . . the tough get going. Who's with me? Let's Go! Come on! AAAAEEEEEGGGHHHH!!
Charon
lol. classic movie, that one.
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I was a bit torn with this. I didn’t want to scare people away with all the talk of organization, but at the same time it was clear that organization to some small degree was absolutely required. DoK outlined a likely plan of attack, and a plan of defense/offense. There were some elements that would lead to success, calling for some organization, but not to the extent that any squad participating would be forced to do anything drastically different than what it usually does. Here is what I envisioned:
Guys like the 56th like to do high altitude fighter sweeps. There is a need for high altitude fighter sweeps to push the horde down to the deck. If they join in they do their thing and contribute to the cause. They even lead themselves in the process. They would have found a bunch of lower N1K2s, but still flying a bit higher than they should have been. Meat on the table assuming they don’t just like to cherry pick the occasional high alt 109.
Guys like the BKs like to furball and create a local meat grinder on the deck. So do I. While the odds were somewhat even I had two or three multi-kill sorties in a Ki-84 over the base without going above 5K. Couldn’t ask for more fun.
Some squads like to fight A2A and A2G, but they don’t like to fly for or against 5-1 odds. Great chance to do their thing and contribute.
I couldn't agree more. I was hoping squads that like the different aspects would have jumped on board and fulfilled the necessary role, which they do now but with no coordintion.
The problem is, either they didn't know, wern't on, or didn't want to be involved. Either way tho, the initial response and interest on the knight side was bleak.
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Wanna try again next Thursday night? I can get a new, improved Horde Mk. 2 for you to play with...
shubie
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Setting up a good (note GOOD) mission is not really that easy, unless you have a large squad like I do. There are certain other groups that we work well with and a bunch of inDUHvidualists that won't cooperate at all--hell, they jeer you when you ask for help.
LOL you talk like you are the only one that knows how to plan missions. I've been part of many missions and even ran a few, it takes one guy leading and the rest doing thats it.
As the missions get larger it takes even less. Everyone knows its VH, Ack, City and FH if you cant cap. So when you have 20 guys dropping in you really have to be a maroon to leave anything up.
Guys that run smaller missions, 5 to 10 guys have the marginally harder job because you have less resources to drop the field with and waste is an issue.
Getting a mission to really work involves choosing good people to carry out portions of the mission by using their heads. There's no lockstep formula for any fight, enemy response is not always the same. You figure out a plan, and then rely on a bunch of high-strung volunteers to carry it out. It's a lot like herding cats.
LOL, you really think this game is that difficult hahahaha. The formula is that simple.
Some guys like this aspect of the game, others don't. As far as I am concerned, play the game any way you like, nobody is forcing you to do anything you don't want to do.
Who said anyhting about forcing anyone to play the game a certain way. Not me, I am just discussing tactic and game play. Again I could care less what people do as long as they fight.
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Maybe I should swap sides again
Don't do it Jam you'll have to fight all your countrymen for your kills lol.
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Well ....
Horde Warrior started back in AW. It got to be like the "5 Corners" (or whatever it was) in "Gangs of New York" ... only with 3 gangs. Folks would loiter/climb near the country junction until one Horde clearly had numbers and alt - and then they'd splooge over the border - until they saw a higher dot. That's when I bailed from AW ... just got absurd.
WB had a country-level horde going on ... some countries were always down on people ... almost perpetually so ... while the others just picked off islands which were less defended.
One thing I noticed last nite was that Knights talk a lot less in combat. Maybe it was just that one night or that one battle, but if I was flying Rooks as I usually do I'd have seen and heard a lot more chatter. I was clearing my own 6 because I heard precious few 6 calls on distance channel. I think DipStick and Mars were the only two I heard really working together.
As for those "good" missions ... if what I saw last night is how that's defined now then enjoy your 90% casualty rates. And please don't rationalize that attrition will always be high with base capture because we all know it can be done against defended fields without massive losses. If you don't suck at it, anyway.
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Wanna try again next Thursday night? I can get a new, improved Horde Mk. 2 for you to play with...
Thursdays are out for me, anything Sun - Wed would work tho.
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One thing I noticed last nite was that Knights talk a lot less in combat. Maybe it was just that one night or that one battle, but if I was flying Rooks as I usually do I'd have seen and heard a lot more chatter. I was clearing my own 6 because I heard precious few 6 calls on distance channel. I think DipStick and Mars were the only two I heard really working together.
Very true to a degree, but being out numbered and at the disadvantage as most knights were last night, people get too busy looking every which way and dodging cons that their picture becomes very small (just yourself and the very close ) and it gets harder to see whos chasing who in the bigger picture.
The other side of the coin is when you get so many cons everyone is engaged and there aren't extra guys that can oversee the battle and make calls.
I noticed this when the TAS did their two country tour. Each country was good at it until their force was being overwhelmed, then it gets quite because everone get so busy. Especiall in these large meles where cons are comming from everywhere.
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Originally posted by FBNavy3
Does Not Matter What You Call It!!! It is TEAM WORK, and thats why you have a hard time stopping it! The people who complain about team work are people who dont work well with others. The Axis Army tried the same thing in WWII. Only to FAIL.(The SS)
Uh ... actually the Luftwaffe and Wehrmacht excelled at small unit tactics. What clobbered them was overwhelming numbers - in the air from the Allies and on the ground from the Russians. Go read "Messerschmitts over Sicily: Diary of a Luftwaffe Fighter Commander" by Johannes Steinhoff for a glimpse of what their life was like against the weight of Allied numbers - in the early days before things got real bad.
Bottom line is the game system rewards Horde play - objectives can be taken by a large group of unskilled players who simply wear down a base through attrition, suicide attacks, and exploiting low-level strategic bombers. To dress that up as "team work" or "mission planning" is inane.
If the game system changed to throttle sortie rates the balance of gameplay would start shift overnight from "quantity" to "quality." But as the saying goes: "The more things don't change the more they stay the same."
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Originally posted by mars01
Very true to a degree, but being out numbered and at the disadvantage as most knights were last night, people get too busy looking every which way and dodging cons that their picture becomes very small (just yourself and the very close ) and it gets harder to see whos chasing who in the bigger picture.
The other side of the coin is when you get so many cons everyone is engaged and there aren't extra guys that can oversee the battle and make calls.
...
Dunno ... I know that even when we have a massive base defense going there's constant chatter going on in Rookland. I'm not trying to get into the "which country is better" argument, but this was the most glaring difference I noticed last night. If you get too busy to look around and make 6 calls then your own SA is degraded.
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Dunno ... I know that even when we have a massive base defense going there's constant chatter going on in Rookland. I'm not trying to get into the "which country is better" argument, but this was the most glaring difference I noticed last night. If you get too busy to look around and make 6 calls then your own SA is degraded.
Yeah no doubt about it.
But next time you are getting great six calls etc stop and look at which side is controlling the fight, has the greater numbers and less work load.
Then when the six calls are rare take a look, let me know if you see the same things. Again this is just what I see.
As for the country better thing, they all suck equally lolh.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Bottom line is the game system rewards Horde play - objectives can be taken by a large group of unskilled players who simply wear down a base through attrition, suicide attacks, and exploiting low-level strategic bombers. To dress that up as "team work" or "mission planning" is inane.
That's not what we did last night, and you know it. We made a plan, executed the plan, and took your lunch money (at base 80) in about 15 minutes. No suicide dweebs, no attrition, no screwing around--we did it like it should be done. And, you know, that's the way we usually do it. The only added factors last night were the single 262 and the BARCAP.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I agree with your assesment of how things could be better. It will either happen or all the people who enjoy the horde aspect will own the game. If they get bored and leave new guys will take their place.
Ihope that the horde of new guys who don't want to fight is not the only way that HT can make money but if it is then he owes it to his company to cater to them since it is his lively hood and he needs to make a living.
Not all of us. I think some of it has to do with how hard it is to find a good fight sometimes. They gravitate to the crown looking for comeraderie and the hope of a fight with better odds. Granted there are some who will run from a fight if the odds look bad bit not all of us. I can say I'm not one of them as I have the deaths to prove it.
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Wish I could have been there, but I don't normally get on until after 11pm EST. There's no way I could show up for an anti-horde party before then.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Stupid vox went out on me. I felt I was talking to myself. If you did not hear me then I was...
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well... it all boils down to how the game is set up and really.... that is all there is to it. HT can make it a horde paradise or a furball paradise..
It has been a furball paradise in the p[ast and It is a horde paradise right now and really... there is no way around that for the players... The game forms the way the players get to play..
right now you either sit it out or play the horde way. Even the horde has less control thatn they realize. The game/reset is "won" by the side with the most numbers... all the horde mentality in the world and all the guys who think they are controlling "strat" are worthless if they don't have very close numbers or a numbers advantage... The side with the most numbers "wins"... the side that "wins" allways credits it to something else.
shubie for instance is not realizing that it wouldn't make a bit of difference how he set up the "misssion" It is how the gameplay is controlled from the setup. and.... numbers... no matter what... in the end... it was numbers and not skil that form AH gameplay these days.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
well... it all boils down to how the game is set up and really.... that is all there is to it. HT can make it a horde paradise or a furball paradise..
It has been a furball paradise in the p[ast and It is a horde paradise right now and really... there is no way around that for the players... The game forms the way the players get to play..
right now you either sit it out or play the horde way. Even the horde has less control thatn they realize. The game/reset is "won" by the side with the most numbers... all the horde mentality in the world and all the guys who think they are controlling "strat" are worthless if they don't have very close numbers or a numbers advantage... The side with the most numbers "wins"... the side that "wins" allways credits it to something else.
shubie for instance is not realizing that it wouldn't make a bit of difference how he set up the "misssion" It is how the gameplay is controlled from the setup. and.... numbers... no matter what... in the end... it was numbers and not skil that form AH gameplay these days.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
I still disagree with the "numbers are all there is". It is plainly not true. I have seen times when we Bish had numbers, could not get it together, and still got pushed around the map. You have too.
And the gameplay isn't controlled. If you can convince the majority of players to go to a furballing format, that's where it will go. A year ago, we were talking about how FesterMA was going to restore the primacy of air-to-air combat, and look what happened. Last night's exercise was on FesterMA. The only thing that was added was a dedicated BARCAP to block the adjacent fields. If the fight was on Pizza, I probably wouldn't need to do that.
Why do you think it wouldn't make a difference how and or if the mission was set up? You guys are always biotching about the conga lines and the attrition battle, but the fact is the lemmings almost never capture a base. Over here on the Bish side, we run missions for that, at least in prime time when there's a lot of resistance. And not just me. There's a dozen o so guys that run missions regularly in prime time.
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Why not get them to fly D25's? You can furball 10K to the deck. You just need a few of you to help clear your 6's and cover each other. We do it all the time in the 56th with D25's.
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To be honest I don't think we gave Shubie a chance to prove it either way. The BARCAP was a good move. But, it's nice to be able to field more aircraft in the support function than I expected us to generate even with a full turn out. [As I pointed out earlier, it would have been nice to have the 56th about 5k above them in their Jugs in a position to attack.] When Jam and I were flying virtually alone under 10 or so N1K2s on our way to the main field, I kinda felt like that German shore observer in "The Longest day" when the fog cleared :)
Still, I think if we could have mustered and maintained a solid 50 percent of his attacking force it would have been a much tougher fight. I personally don't expect or even think you need 1-1 odds to put up solid resistance, but you have to provide about a dar bars worth of consistant oppostion to keep things interesting. That lasted all of about 15 minutes.
My comms were screwy too, btw.
Charon
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That's not what we did last night, and you know it. We made a plan, executed the plan, and took your lunch money (at base 80) in about 15 minutes. No suicide dweebs, no attrition, no screwing around--we did it like it should be done. And, you know, that's the way we usually do it. The only added factors last night were the single 262 and the BARCAP.
LOL, ok Shub next time we go to a part of the map where there isnt much happening, we both get equal numbers then try it out. I'd like to see what would happen then. Like I said earlier the more people you have the less you need some great strategery. The small the group the more you have to organize and plan.
Last night you had numerical supremacy and that was the determining factor. Your planning might attribute to about 5% of the outcome. And the gameplay isn't controlled. If you can convince the majority of players to go to a furballing format, that's where it will go. A year ago, we were talking about how FesterMA was going to restore the primacy of air-to-air combat, and look what happened.
No we said Fester map would produce more fights for those that wanted to fight. No one ever said it would stop the horde mongers from hording.The only thing that was added was a dedicated BARCAP to block the adjacent fields. If the fight was on Pizza, I probably wouldn't need to do that.
You didn't need to do it last night either because there weren't enough knights upping to warrant it. But the fact that you were able to send two units away from the main attack and still attack with large numbers proves it was all about the numbers.Why do you think it wouldn't make a difference how and or if the mission was set up?
Again, if you have limited resources then mission planning is important because if you waste a run your screwed. When you have horde numbers who cares what the mission is all you have to do is kill VH, Ack, City and if your lame at capping the FHs. Game over. If you have 20 guys dropping on three things how hard is that to plan?
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When Jam and I were flying virtually alone under 15 or so N1K2s on our way to the main field, I kinda felt like that German shore observer in "The Longest day" when the fog cleared
Still, I think if we could have mustered and maintained a solid 50 percent of his attacking force it would have been a much tougher fight. I personally don't expect or even think you need 1-1 odds to put up solid resistance, but you have to provide about a dar bars worth of consistant oppostion to keep things interesting. That lasted all of about 15 minutes.
Sounds like the same story me and Dipstick could tell. 2 guys against 6 Nikis. Then when we got through those guys we found at least 10 to 15 at the base.
I also agree if we had half of the attacking we would have put up a decent fight and it would have been fun.
I kinda felt like that German shore observer in "The Longest day" when the fog cleared
LOL great scene. I just finished "Fighter Boys" about brit fighter command, inception through the BOB. Obviousely the brits were undermanned, they talk about small groups of Hurris or Spits taking on 50 german bombers escorted by 100 109s or 110s . Felt like that last night lol.
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I wouldn't mind trying it again on a Sunday perhaps, maybe next Sunday. But I'm a bit discouraged about having another no show. For the short time there was action it was a lot of fun and what I hope for out of this game. The rest of the time I was up it was a discouraging drag, dancing around a red swarm trying to drag one or two out and getting killed by one of the many that decided to "help out" any time I got one into a dogfight.
Charon
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Last night you had numerical supremacy and that was the determining factor.
Yeah, but that's our problem to overcome. I fully expected Shubie to have large numbers, and likely some degree of superior numbers. Our dedicated movement was anemic.
Perhaps the solution, at least a personal one, is to set up an anti-horde horde squad, and work to build it over time. No country affiliation (rotate each month/squad night go to the weakest country at log on), no scores or rank concerns (individual or squad), no winning the war concerns -- just a dedication to the battle. And, an encouragement of proper A2A and even A2G tactics. Perhaps even a strong focus on the mentoring of new players. No strict structure, strategy by suggestion and concensus, room for a variety of gameply preferences as long as the goal it to look for the biggest red bar and go from there.
Charon
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The numbers weren't taht large, mars. We had 41 in the mission. Divided up into 24 or so Nikis, 3 goons, and the rest heavies.
Comfort yourself with the delusion that planning has no effect on the outcome. It makes it easier for me to roll you, like we did last night. Charon states that he felt overwhelmed. He was supposed to feel that way.
Let's look at this like another popular game...say, soccer (football for you guys on the other side of the pond).
Your style is every player kicking the ball around, blocking people on the other team, and brawling in the center of the field. Our style is to plan plays, make a concerted move against you, and score goals through teamwork.
Which is more likely to produce a win?
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Yeah, but that's our problem to overcome. I fully expected Shubie to have large numbers, and likely some degree of superior numbers. Our dedicated movement was anemic.
Yeah I totally agree it is our problem, but to say and believe something like ... We made a plan, executed the plan, and took your lunch money (at base 80) in about 15 minutes.
is kind of rediculous.
I give them credit for being able to get everyone rallied to the cause.
I also wish more poeple were on this BB and that we had seperate country BBs so we could discuss country tactics and make plans. I guess that would be email lol.
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Originally posted by Charon
Yeah, but that's our problem to overcome. I fully expected Shubie to have large numbers, and likely some degree of superior numbers. Our dedicated movement was anemic.
Perhaps the solution, at least a personal one, is to set up an anti-horde horde squad, and work to build it over time. No country affiliation (rotate each month/squad night go to the weakest country at log on), no scores or rank concerns (individual or squad), no winning the war concerns -- just a dedication to the battle. And, an encouragement of proper A2A and even A2G tactics. Perhaps even a strong focus on the mentoring of new players. No strict structure, strategy by suggestion and concensus, room for a variety of gameply preferences as long as the goal it to look for the biggest red bar and go from there.
Charon
Yesssss! We will all have a ball!
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Originally posted by mars01
but to say and believe something like ... is kind of rediculous.
Whatever could be ridiculous about it? Does the truth hurt that much?
Hey, man, the plan worked for two reasons. First, it was tactically sound. Second, YOU HAD NO PLAN.
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Originally posted by mars01
but to say and believe something like ... is kind of rediculous.
Whatever could be ridiculous about it? Does the truth hurt that much?
Hey, man, the plan worked for two reasons. First, it was tactically sound. Second, YOU HAD NO PLAN.
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The numbers weren't taht large, mars. We had 41 in the mission. Divided up into 24 or so Nikis, 3 goons, and the rest heavies.
Comfort yourself with the delusion that planning has no effect on the outcome. It makes it easier for me to roll you, like we did last night. Charon states that he felt overwhelmed. He was supposed to feel that way.
Let's look at this like another popular game...say, soccer (football for you guys on the other side of the pond).
Your style is every player kicking the ball around, blocking people on the other team, and brawling in the center of the field. Our style is to plan plays, make a concerted move against you, and score goals through teamwork.
Which is more likely to produce a win?
Deluding myself hahaha. Boy you are a Horde Boy if you think 41 is small.
You had 41 against 4 maybe 5. WTG man, great plan, against such odds I am amazed you pulled it off. Must be the planning.
Ummm - I could care less about you taking the bases last night. What sucked was for all the climbing and flying the fighting was weak, fun if your a BnZ late war guy, but not fun if long extensions being chased by 6 guys is not your cup of tea.
I could care less about producing a win, I wanted to see some great fighting. That didn't happen. That is the difference between us. You think there is something to win, I just want to fight!
Lets take a real game USA Football! 8 guys fighting it out like mad to get 3 guys over the line. Now your talking fun. Running around kicking a ball ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz.
Coffee is for closers!
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Whatever could be ridiculous about it? Does the truth hurt that much?
Hey, man, the plan worked for two reasons. First, it was tactically sound. Second, YOU HAD NO PLAN.
It is rediculous that you can't see it. So you go on believing you are some great tactician, dude no skin off my back. If you really think 4 against 41 is some great matchup then carry on!
Crap the fact that it took you 15 mins to take a base with 30 guys tells me just the opposite.
Hell when I was in the MAW we would come into a base, drop the VH and City in 1 min and cap 2 mins later the base was ours. On top of which the plan was as simple as 2 guys on VH, 3 guys on ack rest hit the city, once light cap. Whooooo good thing 40 has his Doctorate.
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Originally posted by mars01
I could care less about producing a win, I wanted to see some great fighting. That didn't happen. That is the difference between us. You think there is something to win, I just want to fight!
Well, if you're so fired up about getting into a fight against long odds with fighters...We offered you 24 nikis looking for blood. Not enough? Too high? Too Low? Not flying in a straight line while AFK?
You had relic, swat501, badcarma, spork42, and 20 or so other dedicated a-a guys hoping you would come play. Did you go after them, or go goon hunting?
The real deal seems to be a desire on your part to play airquake. Up, fight, land or die.
Thinking? We don't need no steenking thinking!
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I agree with Charon. If we had half the force as shubie fight would have been much better. It was our fault that we couldn't muster up the numbers. After prime time was up the fight got better at a7. Maybe different type player after hours? Mars, yes shubie had numbers but he had a plan. Usually the horde doesnt have fighter cover like that. Most would have been heavy and therefore easier to kill. Either that or would have dropped their ord and wasted a jabo run.
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Originally posted by mars01
If you really think 4 against 41 is some great matchup then carry on!
Well, I planned for 40-50 enemy. I really thought you guys could pull it together. I am genuinely depressed to see that you couldn't get enough cooperation from the rest of your quake-mates to actually put up a fight.
You talked the talk, didn't you? You couldn't walk the walk last night, and here you are back again, talking the talk, and trying to convince me that it didn't happen, or that it doesn't matter to you. Methinks thou doth protest too much!
Where the rubber hits the road, you came up as...less than adequate.
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Lets not turn this into a flamming session please. Our goal is to get the strat guys and the furballers to co exist without avoiding each other. Shubie can you admit that it was more fun to meet resistance even though it was light. Was their satisfaction in taking 80 under pressure?
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Mars,
The 56th often flys 5-8 vs. 15-20. We fly by pre arranged tactics and communications. We fly winged pairs or trios and target single cons 2 vs 1 to eliminate from the herd. We try to come in 20-22k which is common sense with P47's. But if we get cuaght low, we have tactics to deal and adhere to them. Most of the time we get all of our guys home. We stay in a group and look out for the group first. Numbers of kills second or third.
Last night after our squad time my wingman and I helped defend A2 which was being swamped. We were in P47D-25's 5k to the deck against spits, 190's, ponies, and Ta152's. About 12 enemy local at any time with incomming. We had help from about 4 at the feild. My wingman is new to AH, 2-3 months. So low and slow TB with spits is hard for him. He got killed once and reupped. To get him off the ground I flew straight and level at 3k away from him with a spit conga line on my kester. When he was up I reversed and pulled back to cover his tail. I don't remember alot about the next 5 to 8 minutes other than doing what it takes to clear his tail. We both landed in one peice. I did not remember shooting anything down but the HOST message said I killed 3.
I think if you give the time and effort to building a hoard busting squad it will work.:)
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It must have been a really good plan to be able to take a base in only 30 minutes with only 40 guys. Trying to remeber if I can find the film for it but we have taken bases in 4 minutes after the field started flashing. But we did not have a plan, we only had 9 guys, and buildings were furbaling somewhere else so they did not resist much.
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Originally posted by jamusta
Maybe I should swap sides again
It will not help.
You see.... the fact is the "Fighter Only" segment of players depend on the Building battlers of their very own country to provide the targets that they engage. Its is a co-existance that actually is the esence of AH. In fact it has been this way in every WWll type Combat sim i have ever played.
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OK huebert, what talk did I talk that I could or did not walk?
The knights were a no show, oh I am so belittled and crushed hahaha lol. :rollseyes:
Me thinks you talk out of you Ahole lolh. No me knows you talk out of your Ahole.
Quake mates, again anyone that compares any aspect of this game to quake doesn't know his Arse from a whole in the ground.
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Yeah bustr I get it, the Tas does much the same only below 8k. I am no stranger to working with the guys I am flying with. The whole reason I upped where I did last night was to fly wing with Dipstick because he was also taking a Jug ( also hes a great guy wing with ) Our mistake was not upping together with Jam and keeping the few guys we had together.
Honestly I am not going to leave the TAS to build join a horde busting squad. I will join their missions tho.
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You see.... the fact is the "Fighter Only" segment of players depend on the Building battlers of their very own country to provide the targets that they engage. Its is a co-existance that actually is the esence of AH. In fact it has been this way in every WWll type Combat sim i have ever played.
So what went on before there was strat and fields to bomb?
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Originally posted by rshubert
That's not what we did last night, and you know it. We made a plan, executed the plan, and took your lunch money (at base 80) in about 15 minutes. No suicide dweebs, no attrition, no screwing around--we did it like it should be done. And, you know, that's the way we usually do it. The only added factors last night were the single 262 and the BARCAP.
You are seriously deluded.
I showed up a little after 6:30 PST. While I was trying to figure out why I had no plane skins after changing countries (like there should be a connection between the two?) and recal my joystick I start seeing reports of mass numbers of N1K's up in the ionosphere.
Hmmm ... curious. Both the plane choice (for a non-furballing Jabo unit) and the high altitude so close to the "start time."
I was still climbing out when 80 fell - so were a lot of other folks on the vox channel Charon told us to be on.
At which point it became clear that the rules of engagement as stated were a freakin' lie and the "win by any means necessary" axiom of The Horde was in play. It was also clear by looking at how many were on the Horde Busting vox that the numbers were just too lopsided to make this worth doing.
So I went off to hunt on my own. And then I ran into that cloud of Mosquitards which got shredded.
And if you capture bases "like it should be done" why does it take 40 freakin' planes to take one base. That ain't something I'd wanna brag about.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
You are seriously deluded.
I showed up a little after 6:30 PST. While I was trying to figure out why I had no plane skins after changing countries (like there should be a connection between the two?) and recal my joystick I start seeing reports of mass numbers of N1K's up in the ionosphere.
Hmmm ... curious. Both the plane choice (for a non-furballing Jabo unit) and the high altitude so close to the "start time."
I was still climbing out when 80 fell - so were a lot of other folks on the vox channel Charon told us to be on.
At which point it became clear that the rules of engagement as stated were a freakin' lie and the "win by any means necessary" axiom of The Horde was in play. It was also clear by looking at how many were on the Horde Busting vox that the numbers were just too lopsided to make this worth doing.
So I went off to hunt on my own. And then I ran into that cloud of Mosquitards which got shredded.
And if you capture bases "like it should be done" why does it take 40 freakin' planes to take one base. That ain't something I'd wanna brag about.
ooh, gonzie, that's quite a post.
First, you blame your inability to get just the "right" outfit on us. Second, the rules of engagement were followed--you are the first to say any different. We took off AFTER we announced our takeoff field, by about 3 minutes. It took about 15 minutes, two goon launches to take the base, with a goon travel time of about 10 minutes. If you were still climbing, you were either in orbit or flying a Stuka. Next time don't take the 1800KG bomb, it affects climb performance.
The Nikis? Why not? It is one of the most overused planes in the game, with them there 4 x 20 mm cannons. Great escort bird. We also took some Hurri 2s.
Then you decide that it's all just not worth it, and go off on your own. That's the center of the thing, dweebette. Many (but not all) of you experten won't engage unless you see something in it for you. Totally selfish, totally self-centered, completely unwilling to cooperate to acheive a goal.
That's what beats you--it's not the numbers, really. IT IS THE SIMPLE FACT THAT WE CAN WORK TOGETHER TO ACHIEVE A GOAL. Learn from some of your fellows, and take it like a man. Quit sniveling. It's unbecoming.
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Originally posted by dedalos
It must have been a really good plan to be able to take a base in only 30 minutes with only 40 guys. Trying to remeber if I can find the film for it but we have taken bases in 4 minutes after the field started flashing. But we did not have a plan, we only had 9 guys, and buildings were furbaling somewhere else so they did not resist much.
We took it in 15, not 30, and the first goon got shot down. Goons are slow. We had a cap over the base just as quick as we got there.
If you took a base in 4 minutes, you can't be counting travel time from your home base. The physics just don't work out. We did count time from wheels up to troops out.
And yes, virginia--there were defenders. A couple of 190s and a pesky pony got into the attackers over the town, and made things interesting for a while. We drug 'em out away from town, and they never even saw the goon that took the place.
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Originally posted by jamusta
Lets not turn this into a flamming session please. Our goal is to get the strat guys and the furballers to co exist without avoiding each other. Shubie can you admit that it was more fun to meet resistance even though it was light. Was their satisfaction in taking 80 under pressure?
Oh my yes I agree. We usually get resistance, btw. If we don't it's not because we don't expect it--sometimes I can't understand why nobody comes to play with us. Front line base, fully up, nobody defends? Maybe they're busy somewhere else.
However, if we do get a base with no resistance, we immediately go after the next one in line. Usually the second base will wake the enemy up and provoke a reaction.
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Originally posted by mars01
So what went on before there was strat and fields to bomb?
It doesnt matter what went on before. Its what the game is now.
This is the part some players wont/dont accept.
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hmm... we seem to have a fundamental difference of opinion on what "winning" means.
shubie seems to feel that any victory no matter how phyric is a "win" suicide tactics work so... they are a win... 90% casualties has no penalty so... it is a win. Knowing that every time you meet another player in the sky... even if you have an advantage and a better plane.... knowing that every time... you have a less than 25% chance of not dying if you can't get away... that is also a "win" if you capture Ai.
furballers just put it on a more personal level... this isn't footbal or any other sport. It isn't war or even close to a simulation of one.... it is a simulation of WWII aircraft and their abilities and damage models and gunnery.... Thats what I am here for.
Once we had different field capture and different strat and the game was very furball centric. The strat guys whined all day and threatened to leave (some even did)
Now the strat makes furballs allmost iompossible and the furball guys whine and threaten to leave. (some even are)
None of this has a whit to do with the skill or lack therof of the strat guys... they are still at the bottom of the barrel like allways in personal skill. the game is just tailored right now more to their level..... eventuially they learn that and get bored with the "strat" (the side with the biggest numbers wins).
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
(oh.. fester map is good but was better till the "strat girls" complained that nobody was playing with them and it got changed some)
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Originally posted by lazs2
hmm... we seem to have a fundamental difference of opinion on what "winning" means.
shubie seems to feel that any victory no matter how phyric is a "win" suicide tactics work so... they are a win... 90% casualties has no penalty so... it is a win. Knowing that every time you meet another player in the sky... even if you have an advantage and a better plane.... knowing that every time... you have a less than 25% chance of not dying if you can't get away... that is also a "win" if you capture Ai.
furballers just put it on a more personal level... this isn't footbal or any other sport. It isn't war or even close to a simulation of one.... it is a simulation of WWII aircraft and their abilities and damage models and gunnery.... Thats what I am here for.
Once we had different field capture and different strat and the game was very furball centric. The strat guys whined all day and threatened to leave (some even did)
Now the strat makes furballs allmost iompossible and the furball guys whine and threaten to leave. (some even are)
None of this has a whit to do with the skill or lack therof of the strat guys... they are still at the bottom of the barrel like allways in personal skill. the game is just tailored right now more to their level..... eventuially they learn that and get bored with the "strat" (the side with the biggest numbers wins).
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
(oh.. fester map is good but was better till the "strat girls" complained that nobody was playing with them and it got changed some)
Yes, we do have a fundamental difference of opinion. And a difference that will probably not get answered here.
First, your use of the term 'pyrrhic' is interesting, considering that your furball quakemate will be back in five minutes, none the worse for wear. Same thing for our method of play. A pyrrhic victory is one where the winner accepts staggering losses. We have no losses, unless somebody takes his ball and goes home.
As for skill, put your money where your mouth is. Let's do this thing again, and this time you participate. I will put up the a-a skills of many of my squadmates, one on one, against yours any day. Not mine, I have piss poor air-to-air skills, through lack of development, since I concentrate on unit tactics. Maybe you can beat me up in a one-on-one fight, but I know where I can get a guy who will take your lunch money and push you down in the mud, figuratively speaking, and all in the name of fun.
Lazs, you have been telling me for two years that I would get tired of bombing toolsheds and come to Jesus. It hasn't happened yet, and I don't think it will. And, one more time, it ain't the numbers, it's the organization.
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deep thoughts.
Gentlemen, I have come to the conclusion that furballers are blaming strat guys for their own lack of enjoyment.
We take down your bases, mess up your furballs, fly too high, fly too heavy, run, head on, bore-n-zoom, whatever. Bases are too far apart, fuel is too easy to kill, troops are too easy to kill, towns are too easy to kill, whatever...
In response, HTC has accepted the FesterMA map, has tripled the size of towns, made fuel porking impossible. Nothing has changed the balance, but has made us strat guys change our techniques and tactics, after a certain amount of kvetching about it.
The furballers? Y'all still insist that the game is not "balanced" toward your favorite activity, and that somehow the strat guys are lesser beings.
Over the last two years of discussion, the strat guys have made all the adjustments to accomodate the minority of furballers, yet the furballers are not satisfied. It reminds me of the creeping socialism in this country we call gun control, where gun owners give up a little bit more every go-round, yet the anti-gunners still want more.
Here's the profound part:
Get over being a victim. Take charge of your own destiny. Adjust and adapt to reality. Don't insist that everybody do it your way. Quit worrying about what the other guy's motivations and/or goals are, and set some of your own. Control what you can, accept what you can't, and use your MIND to bend YOUR ACTIONS to counter the obstacles in your path. If you can do that, you can win. If you won't or can't do that, you are a loser.
And that's why I feel like a winner, Lazs. I achieve my game goals most of the time, and have fun doing it. I enjoy outthinking and outsmarting my enemies. If I fail, I adapt my techniques to win next time.
Now, you are no doubt thinking that my goals are not worthy of your consideration. But, in my heart, I know that that is not important to me, and I therefore win again.
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shubie... I doubt that I will play your game in order to spoil your fun. Spoiling your fun is not..... well.... fun for me or, at least not fun enough to play an organized (read, watch paint dry) game.
You take huge losses every time you run into fighters... if we avoid you or happen to not be in the area you do well... that is your "victory" you are deluding yourself tho if you think you are taking fields because you are so skilled that no one can stop you.
You want us to play your way in order to have fun... we will never understand each other I guess.... I simply know that being part of a horde is the most boring thing I have ever done in AH and I get absolutely no enjoyment out of listening to the paniced chatter or 'winning" the field.
you and your ilk get no joy out of a dozen planes all flying in a swilrling mass with their SA stretched to the limit... the confusion and the racking up of kills while your SA is all but overwhelmed... or the 2 minute fight where you eventually gain (or lose) the advantage and shoot down, or in turn are shot down, by a skilled opponent.
lazs
Public Relations Officer For the BK's
Self appointed better than a general.
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Originally posted by rshubert
ooh, gonzie, that's quite a post.
First, you blame your inability to get just the "right" outfit on us. Second, the rules of engagement were followed. ...
The Nikis? Why not? It is one of the most overused planes in the game, with them there 4 x 20 mm cannons. Great escort bird. We also took some Hurri 2s.
Then you decide that it's all just not worth it, and go off on your own. That's the center of the thing, dweebette. Many (but not all) of you experten won't engage unless you see something in it for you. Totally selfish, totally self-centered, completely unwilling to cooperate to acheive a goal.
That's what beats you--it's not the numbers, really. IT IS THE SIMPLE FACT THAT WE CAN WORK TOGETHER TO ACHIEVE A GOAL. Learn from some of your fellows, and take it like a man. Quit sniveling. It's unbecoming.
You are the biggest pile of idiocy I've encountered in a long, long while. And that's saying something, given some of the bananas who've crossed these halls.
For starters, you were the one who doesn't like to hunt alone. Well, some of us DO like to - or maybe with one or two others in the element. And it was your top cover guys who kept running away from me, and then couldn't even screen your Mosi raid. I stuck around for a sortie while others were already leaving. I was calling 6 for folks when no one else was. I got 3 assists for 1 kill. And I did this flying for a country I've never flown with before - where I know no one save a couple from the BBS or Rangoon. Hardly selfish, Shrubie. Nice try at flippery, though. Not nearly as lame as your past attempts.
YOU were the one who made the point about how your bomb-ladened figters would take longer to climb somewhere back up-thread. You set an expectation and then went off it. Fair enough for the MA. But when you arrange to have some manner of set-piece battle, and then right away start going against the things you led the other side to believe would be the rules of engagement, that tends to taint the affair.
Next, you have NO CLUE what was being said on Knight vox. It was clear to many of us that the numbers weren't there to make this worthwhile. If you weren't so busy inspecting your own sphincter, you'd have read some of the posts here and seen that many agreed that the odds were too far gone to make worth doing.
Next, your version of teamwork is to gather 40 incestual by-products and splooge over to a field, take it by shear weight of numbers, and then crow about how well organized you are. Are you even aware that other groups take fields - defended ones too - with a third that number of planes or less - often times with under 25% casualty rates (mostly due to AAA)? And how do *WE* do that - real teamwork at the individual level. It is completely clear that the kind of teamwork people like myself, Mars, and Charon practice is completely beyond your savagely limited reasoning abilities. We could explain it to you for weeks and you'd still just sit there with your thumb up your nose going "duuuhhh."
Next, no one is "blaming the strat guys" for the crappy MA gameplay. Hell, I was working with folks at Kesmai on strat systems over 10 freakin' years ago. It has to be part of the game - going up and just randomly patrolling isn't appealing to enough people.
The problem is that the current system rewards gangbangers such as yourself. People who want to fly real quality missions (like, where they land and actually shoot at enemy planes and stuff) have little to pick from when your "style" of play can so completely dominate the game. And your style dumbs down the game. I'm reminded of what some newbie said when folks were griping about the low-level Lancs to take out hangars: "Well, what other way is there?" You are the same brand of dweeb. You know no other way but winning by weight of numbers alone - and avoiding contact on top of that.
Is it effective? Yeah. Does it require planning? At some goat-herding level, yeah. Does it require even a moderate level of pilot skill? No. Will players involved in these activities improve beyond being "not total dweebs"? No.
What YOU don't grasp is that my interest in this matter (and that of others) is well beyond personal (making your allegations of my selfishness even more lame). The game is suffering right now - not "because of the strat guys" either. But because the fundamental system of rewards and checks-and-balances does nothing to promote skill improvement. And, in the long run, that will make AH become something very dull. And then people will go elsewhere. Because having vast armies of Jabo's attacking the lightest defended base - trying to avoid contact enroute - just isn't fun for very long. Or defending against an endless stream of lawn-dart Jabos - that too gets dull after a while. And I can't even imagine how someone who does this stuff - take off heavy, drag up to 10K, make one pass on tool shed, make 2 passes to vultch, then die, repeat - can get any meaningful pleasure from the game.
As far as you personally, your posts have the making of a possible troll. But maybe you are a True Believer in "strength through numbers - and nothing else." If anyone has a persecution complex it's you - all you say is "you're blaming the strat guys" over and over. As for Thursday's get-together, you showed your true colors. I will never again take you at your word on anything. Lastly, you do not understand the nature of teamwork at the elemental level of fighter combat. If you did, you wouldn't need (and lose) so many planes taking objectives. Maybe you don't care that you don't know any better - you did at one point say you "werent here to learn anything."
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Originally posted by rshubert
It reminds me of the creeping socialism in this country we call gun control, where gun owners give up a little bit more every go-round, yet the anti-gunners still want more.
Not sure what country you are in but as a member of the NRA I can tell you we in the USA are not "giving up a little bit more every go-round".
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Thanks for the invitation Jamusta and thanks to Shubie for the counterchallenge.
Too bad I have to play H2H while I wait to get the money for a faster machine. I can't wait to get back to MA. Jamusta, your challenge is the best motivation I've seen in a while. Would be totally awesome to join you and your buds in some horde-busting. Especially considering the horrible odds against us. Would make for some great teamwork.
Shubie, your a stand up kinda guy, I'm impressed that you are able to maintain your good nature and a level head against all those whines and personal accusations. Although I don't personally enjoy flying unopposed, I do feel that you make this game more immersive by gathering an impressive air force with tactical objectives. (Now I'll duck :eek: )
I do agree with most that it is kinda sad that Jamusta was unable to gather a significant opposition and I understand the resulting frustrations of some. Nevertheless, I don't feel it is necessarily Shubie's responsiblity to organize his opposition. It is a free world after all. (I hate guns) .
Note to HTC: Maybe it would be helpful to have a highly visible place in the game, much like what is available in the combat theatre under MOTD (hope I got that right), to publish tactical objectives without creating missions or belonging to a squad, which are often much too limiting for most to enjoy. (Someone please correct me if we have this capability already)
However, Jamusta, it is possible that you would eventually gain a significant fighter force if you continued in your horde-busting challenge. I for one have been waiting for a long time for such an opportunity and you have inspired me so that when I do get back online sometime this spring or summer, I will attempt to organize same. Unfortunately, of course, my intentions may be moot, if TOD is already out by that time.
Way to go Jamusta!
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Originally posted by DipStick
Not sure what country you are in but as a member of the NRA I can tell you we in the USA are not "giving up a little bit more every go-round".
I would have to agree with that.
- oldman (NRA some 40 years now) (not to hijack this thread, of course)
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Originally posted by Herr Milde
Thanks for the invitation Jamusta and thanks to Shubie for the counterchallenge.
Too bad I have to play H2H while I wait to get the money for a faster machine. I can't wait to get back to MA. Jamusta, your challenge is the best motivation I've seen in a while. Would be totally awesome to join you and your buds in some horde-busting. Especially considering the horrible odds against us. Would make for some great teamwork.
Shubie, your a stand up kinda guy, I'm impressed that you are able to maintain your good nature and a level head against all those whines and personal accusations. Although I don't personally enjoy flying unopposed, I do feel that you make this game more immersive by gathering an impressive air force with tactical objectives. (Now I'll duck :eek: )
I do agree with most that it is kinda sad that Jamusta was unable to gather a significant opposition and I understand the resulting frustrations of some. Nevertheless, I don't feel it is necessarily Shubie's responsiblity to organize his opposition. It is a free world after all. (I hate guns) .
Note to HTC: Maybe it would be helpful to have a highly visible place in the game, much like what is available in the combat theatre under MOTD (hope I got that right), to publish tactical objectives without creating missions or belonging to a squad, which are often much too limiting for most to enjoy. (Someone please correct me if we have this capability already)
However, Jamusta, it is possible that you would eventually gain a significant fighter force if you continued in your horde-busting challenge. I for one have been waiting for a long time for such an opportunity and you have inspired me so that when I do get back online sometime this spring or summer, I will attempt to organize same. Unfortunately, of course, my intentions may be moot, if TOD is already out by that time.
Way to go Jamusta!
Thanks you have made my whines worth it.
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This thread really might force me to find some way to fly again. Just give me a 262 to fly into Shubie's horde... the horror, all those lemmings falling from the sky... ahhh!!!!!! :mad:
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agreed on the NRA thing... the sky is not falling... the women haven't taken over the world yet. We do need to end womens suffrage tho before it all gets out of hand.
lazs
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Originally posted by DipStick
Not sure what country you are in but as a member of the NRA I can tell you we in the USA are not "giving up a little bit more every go-round".
I live in Michigan, and yes we do. That should be the subject of another discussion, though. See you in the O-club.
shubie
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
You are the biggest pile of idiocy I've encountered in a long, long while. And that's saying something, given some of the bananas who've crossed these halls.
You are a nasty little girl, aren't you? That was really childish, venal and obviously incorrect. You have acheived a new high in internet flamework. In honor of Beet1e, we'll call it a "Wall of Slander".
Here are the EXACT words of the rules of engagement, as posted:
We'll be flying bish, and will let YOU know where we will attack from just prior to launch--or whenever the spies (not you, don't get me wrong...) see the mission posted. Target is our choice, as I see it. Is that agreeable? Your tactics, start base, and numbers are your call, and I DON'T WANT TO KNOW. It will make it more interesting, that way.
shubie
That was posted by me, discussed, and agreed to by Charon. We did exactly that--I informed Charon 2 or 3 minutes before takeoff what base we would take off from. We took off from that base. Yes, I chose a base that could attack several other bases--but that is the nature of FesterMA, the bases are all on top of each other. Nit vox worked, and you sure could see where we were going by tracking the darbar. That's the long, red line on your map, btw. I know you don't use the map much, since you never get too far from the ack over your own field.
I "set up an expectation"? How's that? Charon asked for no information about our attack's structure, tactics, or altitude. I certainly offered none.
The rest of your post is just uninspired attack text. Again, you couldn't whup us in the air, so you gotta try to whup us on the BB. It's kinda sad, man. You apparently are having trouble accepting a defeat. Try to learn from Lazs, who takes the defeat in a psychically acceptable manner by asserting that the results are not important.
Really, they aren't. It's just a game, man. Not worth making a fool of yourself like you are.
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I purchased a reproduction M40 uniform today from Ebay. Heer Panzer Feldwebel shoulder boards with collar tress, with an EK 2 button hole ribbon. Taylored to fit a 6'5"/46 long cheep beer drinker..
Enlisted Crusher cap later in the week.
I'M JACKED !!!
..."might" have to start flyin leather again..
Continue..
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Man I miss AH!:( This thread makes my mind think back a ways. I need a P-47 fix. Maybe if I sell some of my school books I can get some gear and a new vid card:)
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I miss what it used to be. But thats long long gone now (Mettalica sings "Sad but True" in background).
Anton
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Holy crap six friggn pagres, Burn Baby Burn... LOLH
It doesnt matter what went on before. Its what the game is now.
Well you made it sound like without the strat furballing doesn't exist. But I guess you are not saying that.
Is it me or does huebert remind me of a certain bug that used to post in this board a little while ago????? LOLH...:rofl He definately reminds me of a certain Volks Wagon.:D
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Originally posted by Charon
The hord doesn't like to be opposed, and will run to avoid serious contact even to a new front if needed.
Understatement of the year! I have seen as few as 6 pilots thwart well over 30 who were gang-capturing a base. All it takes is a handfull of opposition and the skytrain-horde of building-battlers goes elsewhere to attack other undefended targets.
In other words, it doesn't take an entire horde to beat back the horde. Jamusta just needs a few skilled sticks to show up and frighten the lemmings into moving elsewhere. Then the anti-horders will follow them to their new location. Once the horders see the pattern, they will attack the other country. Case closed :D
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
There is more to Air Compat than just dogfighting.
Sacrilege! You must now take the pennance of a blasphemer, I sentence you to an entire tour in a TBM!
LOL/JK
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Originally posted by Edbert
Understatement of the year! I have seen as few as 6 pilots thwart well over 30 who were gang-capturing a base. All it takes is a handfull of opposition and the skytrain-horde of building-battlers goes elsewhere to attack other undefended targets.
In other words, it doesn't take an entire horde to beat back the horde. Jamusta just needs a few skilled sticks to show up and frighten the lemmings into moving elsewhere. Then the anti-horders will follow them to their new location. Once the horders see the pattern, they will attack the other country. Case closed :D
That may happen sometimes, but not when my bunch is doing it. We were opposed last Thursday, and usually are opposed on every mission. There were somewhere between 4 and 10 opposing fighters on Thursday, and we pushed them back and got the base anyway.
Try not to generalize, it doesn't always happen one way.
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Originally posted by rshubert
That's not what we did last night, and you know it. We made a plan, executed the plan, and took your lunch money (at base 80) in about 15 minutes. No suicide dweebs, no attrition, no screwing around--we did it like it should be done. And, you know, that's the way we usually do it. The only added factors last night were the single 262 and the BARCAP.
Congrats on winning the...whatever it was.
But don't you see that what you did was a misshun not a horde? Organized offense/defense will usually defeat unorganized offense/defense. Larger forces will usually defeat smaller forces. Getting guys into assigned planes with assigned targets and flightplans is the antithesis of the horde IMHO.
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shubie... you are simply not very observant... gameplay is dictated by the way the maps are set up and numbers. The skilless players in your horde can only function with huge maps and far apart fields.
If the fields are 3/4 of a sectror apart then that is where the action will be and gameplay won't favor the horde.. it will favor the furballer and and you will be the one complaining that the game is nothing but "mindless furballing". I have seen it before..
the only reason that the hordes exist is because HT has set things up so that it looks like people are playing with you.
With a bunch of fields all close together the furball will just move when you guys manage to suicide into the toolsheds. You will delude yourself into thinking you stopped the "front" when all you did was move the furball to a place with resources.
to put it more simply so that you can understand...
Furballers are incapable of acting in anything but an independent manner but.... you horde warriors are just as limmited... more so.. you depend on a narrow front of only a few fields so that are far apart so that you can mass force.... if there are dozens of fields in close proximity along a wide front... No one will play with you... If they see a huge red bar they simply will avoid that and go to one of the fields with even bars.
sure... you will still capture territory with the horde tactic but.... you will be playing by yourselves.... All the fun will be at the other fields.... some of you lamers will of course try to kill resources wherever the fun is but... there simply aren't enmough of you to be a dozen places at once and still be effective...
Still.... everyone wins... you kill toolsheds unoppossed and we get to fight for hours on end.... Only problem is... you won't be getting the attention and... that is what it really boils down too.. So long as you can spoil the only good fight on the map...you feel like you are a part of the game.. if everyone is off having a good time and ignoring you... then.. killing toolsheds loses it's appeal
lazs
Public Relations Officer For the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
shubie... you are simply not very observant... gameplay is dictated by the way the maps are set up and numbers. The skilless players in your horde can only function with huge maps and far apart fields.
If the fields are 3/4 of a sectror apart then that is where the action will be and gameplay won't favor the horde.. it will favor the furballer and and you will be the one complaining that the game is nothing but "mindless furballing". I have seen it before..
the only reason that the hordes exist is because HT has set things up so that it looks like people are playing with you.
With a bunch of fields all close together the furball will just move when you guys manage to suicide into the toolsheds. You will delude yourself into thinking you stopped the "front" when all you did was move the furball to a place with resources.
to put it more simply so that you can understand...
Furballers are incapable of acting in anything but an independent manner but.... you horde warriors are just as limmited... more so.. you depend on a narrow front of only a few fields so that are far apart so that you can mass force.... if there are dozens of fields in close proximity along a wide front... No one will play with you... If they see a huge red bar they simply will avoid that and go to one of the fields with even bars.
sure... you will still capture territory with the horde tactic but.... you will be playing by yourselves.... All the fun will be at the other fields.... some of you lamers will of course try to kill resources wherever the fun is but... there simply aren't enmough of you to be a dozen places at once and still be effective...
Still.... everyone wins... you kill toolsheds unoppossed and we get to fight for hours on end.... Only problem is... you won't be getting the attention and... that is what it really boils down too.. So long as you can spoil the only good fight on the map...you feel like you are a part of the game.. if everyone is off having a good time and ignoring you... then.. killing toolsheds loses it's appeal
lazs
Public Relations Officer For the BK's
Lazs, the down-talking aside I disagree with your premise. Nobody limits my gameplay, and I do mean NOBODY. I choose how to play the game, and that's it. It really is that simple.
Within that framework, there are factors that influence my tactics, such as base separation, numbers, available resources, etc. I choose a tactical approach to solving the problem, and execute it. My success or failure depends on how well I solve the various factors, how well my opponents oppose my tactics, and luck.
I guess you may be missing one other thing, here. I am not fighting to control/eliminate/defeat the furball. I am playing to control/eliminate/defeat the other side's strat players. You can go off to some corner of the map and furball to your heart's content, at least until somebody wants your base.
It makes no difference to me. There are many many strat players in your country who will fight to protect their bases from an oncoming horde, and vice versa. Your absence does NOT diminish my AH experience in any way.
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Originally posted by rshubert
That may happen sometimes, but not when my bunch is doing it. We were opposed last Thursday, and usually are opposed on every mission. There were somewhere between 4 and 10 opposing fighters on Thursday, and we pushed them back and got the base anyway.
Try not to generalize, it doesn't always happen one way.
Ok.... stopped reading this thread, come back a week later, and it's now about how to FORM hordes, as opposed to stopping 'em.
(sigh)
as far as a couple dedicated guys stoping an nme advance, I can't count how many times (recently) I've personally held off huge chunks o' nme's from takin' a base. Either w/ gv's (osti hidden near town) just plain fighting 'em (a bit tougher) or taking out a 1/2 dozen goons in my 262.
It's not THAT hard, and a whole lota fun. Granted, after an hour or so, they usually WILL get the base (only so much one guy can do after all) but dang I have alot o' laughs.
rshubert, from reading your posts, your idea of "opposed" were just a couple guys outnumbered 10 to 1. Hope you understand just how "silly" you sound. Ok.... I wasn't party to your last "I gonna attack this field with HUGE #'s, try and stop me", but I would like to be party to the next. Let me know when ya' gonna do it. I wouln't put Charon too high on my "guy able to get help at a field" list, but I promise ya' I can get more than 4-10guys. (btw, usin' a guy w/ an avg k/d ratio of under 1 as an example of the type you wish to have oppose you isn't saying all THAT much)
Heck, bring your 40, I'll bring 20 (or less)... you not getin' that base. SOME of us know how to stop hordes. Some don't. SOME of us understand just how simple it is to get rid of the mass swarms of noobs. (hint, either kill 'em, or draw it out. they got 2min attentions spans and will go elsewhere)
Sooo... let's try it again shall we? Let me know when so I can get my S.H.E.E.P. alert out, rally a few boys, and play "smack the dweeb" for a bit o' light amusment.
(edit) just what IS your in game I.D.??? Just dumb to post on these bbs's w/o listing it. It's like your "ashamed" or sumptin'.
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Originally posted by WMLute
Ok.... stopped reading this thread, come back a week later, and it's now about how to FORM hordes, as opposed to stopping 'em.
(sigh)
as far as a couple dedicated guys stoping an nme advance, I can't count how many times (recently) I've personally held off huge chunks o' nme's from takin' a base. Either w/ gv's (osti hidden near town) just plain fighting 'em (a bit tougher) or taking out a 1/2 dozen goons in my 262.
It's not THAT hard, and a whole lota fun. Granted, after an hour or so, they usually WILL get the base (only so much one guy can do after all) but dang I have alot o' laughs.
rshubert, from reading your posts, your idea of "opposed" were just a couple guys outnumbered 10 to 1. Hope you understand just how "silly" you sound. Ok.... I wasn't party to your last "I gonna attack this field with HUGE #'s, try and stop me", but I would like to be party to the next. Let me know when ya' gonna do it. I wouln't put Charon too high on my "guy able to get help at a field" list, but I promise ya' I can get more than 4-10guys. (btw, usin' a guy w/ an avg k/d ratio of under 1 as an example of the type you wish to have oppose you isn't saying all THAT much)
Heck, bring your 40, I'll bring 20 (or less)... you not getin' that base. SOME of us know how to stop hordes. Some don't. SOME of us understand just how simple it is to get rid of the mass swarms of noobs. (hint, either kill 'em, or draw it out. they got 2min attentions spans and will go elsewhere)
Sooo... let's try it again shall we? Let me know when so I can get my S.H.E.E.P. alert out, rally a few boys, and play "smack the dweeb" for a bit o' light amusment.
(edit) just what IS your in game I.D.??? Just dumb to post on these bbs's w/o listing it. It's like your "ashamed" or sumptin'.
Not ashamed, my game name is shubie. I post it in signatures many, many times a week. It's there for all to see.
And we're not noobs. The Birds of Prey is one of the oldest squads in sims, although, as in other squads, the names change as people go in and out. Some of us like battling buildings, others like killing planes. Some of us like both. It's all good.
Mondays are our squad night, come watch us take bases and have a good time. We usually start the festivities at 8 pm eastern, or so.
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Originally posted by rshubert
Not ashamed, my game name is shubie. I post it in signatures many, many times a week. It's there for all to see.
And we're not noobs. The Birds of Prey is one of the oldest squads in sims, although, as in other squads, the names change as people go in and out. Some of us like battling buildings, others like killing planes. Some of us like both. It's all good.
Mondays are our squad night, come watch us take bases and have a good time. We usually start the festivities at 8 pm eastern, or so.
Saw two Birds of Prey squads in the top 100 squad ranks. Didn't see you in either. Who's your CO so I can look up your squad?
One of the oldest squads in sims?? Really? I mean, MY squad is only 10yrs old (ish), and I know groups like the Damned are in many diff sims, but what is the origin of YOUR squad, and what's it current name, and prior name, so I can see/understand what you are talking about.
Are you considered one of the "good" pilots in your squad? (i.e. one of the older members, top killer, etc) Who is IN that squad that I would know from, say 4+yrs ago.
It's JUST about 8pm eastern, and I might just have to go up and check y'all out.
(edit) I see you have flown AH for 2yrs ish now. Grab me some time so I can give you some training. After 2yrs you SHOULD be able to get at least a 1 to 1 k/d ratio in this sim. I'll be happy to help ya' out.
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That may happen sometimes, but not when my bunch is doing it. We were opposed last Thursday, and usually are opposed on every mission. There were somewhere between 4 and 10 opposing fighters on Thursday, and we pushed them back and got the base anyway.
yeah cause 40 V 4 or 10 now that must take some serious planning lolh:rofl
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Shrubnuts ... you're either an elaborate troll or a total moron or both.
Either way, you aren't worth my time; and you aren't worthy of anyone else's trust or attention.
You can dance around with the lame Intardnet 101 BBS tactics, but rest assured they fool no one. Most of the experienced folks have run across your kind before - and in the end you usually "win" the argument - but only because anyone with a brain quickly tires of your repetitious "I know you are, but what am I" level of response and moves on to other things.
Just always remember, if you didn't suck at the game you could hunt alone. And if you didn't really suck at the game you wouldn't need 40 planes to take a field.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Just always remember, if you didn't suck at the game you could hunt alone. And if you didn't really suck at the game you wouldn't need 40 planes to take a field.
Aaahh, Dok...that need not be true. I hunt alone and I suck. :)
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Originally posted by Stang
I really want this question answered Shubie
Sorry, Stang. I missed those posts earlier, and I do want to respond.
We (the BoPs and our friends) ALWAYS come back. There is a time limit--if it takes an hour and the base is still in enemy hands, we will probably point the attack in another direction. That doesn't usually happen, unless we go after a base that is tactically unsound--too far, no supporting friendly bases, or the enemy stops our attack in its tracks by killing all troops for 100 miles in every direction.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
You responses are predictable, boring, and hackneyed.
:D Go easy on that hackneyed stuff, would ya?
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This whole thread is being argued because a guy knows that even with 40/1 odds in his favor... if he joins the conga line for the kill.... there is a far better chance than even that he will still die instead of getting the kill.... no one will be able to rescue him in time.
lazs
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Originally posted by WMLute
Saw two Birds of Prey squads in the top 100 squad ranks. Didn't see you in either. Who's your CO so I can look up your squad?
One of the oldest squads in sims?? Really? I mean, MY squad is only 10yrs old (ish), and I know groups like the Damned are in many diff sims, but what is the origin of YOUR squad, and what's it current name, and prior name, so I can see/understand what you are talking about.
Are you considered one of the "good" pilots in your squad? (i.e. one of the older members, top killer, etc) Who is IN that squad that I would know from, say 4+yrs ago.
It's JUST about 8pm eastern, and I might just have to go up and check y'all out.
(edit) I see you have flown AH for 2yrs ish now. Grab me some time so I can give you some training. After 2yrs you SHOULD be able to get at least a 1 to 1 k/d ratio in this sim. I'll be happy to help ya' out.
Actually, I am the CO. And sincerely thanks for the training offer. If I ever decide that I want to work seriously on my fighter skills, I will get with monti or Spork42 or Thrila, all squadmates. Or I could ask matrix or kite777 or...
The thing is, it is hard to coordinate an attack while furballing. When in the battle, your SA has to be all about who has angles on who, your situation, your energy--hell, you know what I am talking about. I spend most of my online time planning, coordinating, and executing attacks. My SA is about what bases have what resources, where the threat is coming from, where the goons are, who is doing what, etc. I don't know about you, but I can't do both at once.
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Originally posted by rshubert
If I ever decide that I want to work seriously on my fighter skills, I will get with monti or Spork42 or Thrila, all squadmates. Or I could ask matrix or kite777 or...
no offence, and i'm NOT trying to flame, or hurt anybodys feelings, but your joking right??????
If not to you, and G/L w/ everything.
Also, back to my prior question re. your squad(s), WHICH Birds of Prey is the original? I saw like 4-5 diff BOP's (yeah, finally put THAT together, i 'member bop's) are the ORIGINAL?
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There's nothing wrong with my flying, wmlute.
The Bops is a fantastic squad filled with many great guys, i couldn't wish for a better one. There is very little command structure and few rules, which suits me fine. Our primary goal is to have fun whether it's missions, taking bases, gv-ing or furballing. We have a wide range of guys with different passions for the game. I personally have little interest in missions or "the war", so it's rare that i'll be in a capture mission and no-one on the squad minds i don't join them. I will however join missions on squad night and it's worth it just to hear everyone chat and joke on vox.
We can all find enjoyment in the game just in different forms.
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Originally posted by WMLute
no offence, and i'm NOT trying to flame, or hurt anybodys feelings, but your joking right??????
If not to you, and G/L w/ everything.
Also, back to my prior question re. your squad(s), WHICH Birds of Prey is the original? I saw like 4-5 diff BOP's (yeah, finally put THAT together, i 'member bop's) are the ORIGINAL?
We're ALL the original. About a year ago, we got large, and split the squad up into 4. The assignment of pilots was pretty random. At the time, we thought we were setting up as specialist subgroups, but that didn't happen--we all still do pretty much anything we want to. And we really don't pay much attention to which BoP wing we're in.
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Originally posted by thrila
There's nothing wrong with my flying, wmlute.
The Bops is a fantastic squad filled with many great guys, i couldn't wish for a better one. There is very little command structure and few rules, which suits me fine. Our primary goal is to have fun whether it's missions, taking bases, gv-ing or furballing. We have a wide range of guys with different passions for the game. I personally have little interest in missions or "the war", so it's rare that i'll be in a capture mission and no-one on the squad minds i don't join them. I will however join missions on squad night and it's worth it just to hear everyone chat and joke on vox.
We can all find enjoyment in the game just in different forms.
agreed Bop's got a good history. I had not realized (duh on my part) at 1st y'all were BOP's.
also agreed that nutin' wrong w/ your flying. It's more that none of the names given imho, have all THAT much to teach. Again, just an opinion, not a flame, just was an odd group he listed. You for one, have less time logged as a "fighter" in the past 6months, than say I do this tour so far. I understand the whole "save my k/d, fly in attack mode" score potato bit (something I really don't do. I attain my rank each month just doing what I always do. RARELY do I TRY to get a low rank, just happens), but even factoring your attack mode flight time, you have not logged alot of hours in the air as a pure fighter. So was confused about just how much 1 on 1 knowledge you have to give. Again, not starting a fight, just an opinion. Just thought it an odd bunch he listed. I for one, would suggest an actual "trainer", like Widewing, or Ghosth, (or any of 'em. good bunch).
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(btw, usin' a guy w/ an avg k/d ratio of under 1 as an example of the type you wish to have oppose you isn't saying all THAT much)
LOL, I averaged better than 1.5 to 2-1 most months through 2003 (last year and particularly last few months a bit frustrating and lacking in fun and interest). [Edit LOL again. I just checked my own stats for the "bad" past months and they are actually better than I had though, at least 1-1 or a little better.] All the while flying:
Solo or with 1 wingman
lowest numbers country ea night I up
few if any vulch kills (base or carrier defense)
usually go to worse than 1-1 odds, usually much worse and usually, at least lately, lower E than the red cloud
no alt monkey cherry picks (perfectly valid BTW, but don't have the patience) no running from anything 1-1 or usually 2/3-1. Fought and lost to a p-38 I could have run away from (and was pulling away from) the night of the mission. On the deck in a dora, 75 percent fuel loaded, hadn't flown the dora in literally a year or so. But, thought what the hell, lets see if I can force an overshoot in the scissors. Not a smart fight, or one likely to help the k/d, but then only a puss or scorepotato would run 1 on 1.
No Osti base defense missions, no spawns or rank play or other padding
[edited for I don't care anymore]
Charon.
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Originally posted by rshubert
If I ever decide that I want to work seriously on my fighter skills, I will get with monti or Spork42 or Thrila, all squadmates. Or I could ask matrix or kite777 or...
LOL dont ask Kite, he'll just teach you to run away from anything no matter what unless you have a huge advantage.
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Originally posted by WMLute
also agreed that nutin' wrong w/ your flying. It's more that none of the names given imho, have all THAT much to teach. Again, just an opinion, not a flame, just was an odd group he listed. You for one, have less time logged as a "fighter" in the past 6months, than say I do this tour so far. I understand the whole "save my k/d, fly in attack mode" score potato bit (something I really don't do. I attain my rank each month just doing what I always do. RARELY do I TRY to get a low rank, just happens), but even factoring your attack mode flight time, you have not logged alot of hours in the air as a pure fighter. So was confused about just how much 1 on 1 knowledge you have to give. Again, not starting a fight, just an opinion. Just thought it an odd bunch he listed. I for one, would suggest an actual "trainer", like Widewing, or Ghosth, (or any of 'em. good bunch).
Well it's shame you don't know me, i can handle myself in the MA very well. I'm not a stats person, i don't fly to have good stats or rank. Though it is interesting you bring them up, seeing as i have a better fighter rank than you it's odd you're trying to use it against me. I have plenty of past tours with very impressive stats if that's what you're looking for. I could easily get a k/d of 10, k/s 2 and k/t of 8+ all it takes is to fly in a particular style. I'm not sure how attack more equates to me having little ACM knowledge, perhaps you can explain that for me. It's rare for me to carry bombs, i fly in attack simply because the plane was left in attack.
I'm currently adapting to using rudder pedals so i'm flying into very poor odds, very often to get as much experience in the shortest space of time. I wont get more than 2 or 3 kills before dying, but then that would be expected in the odds i'm facing. Good stats or rank will not impress me, they can be easily manipulated. The most important thing is how you get your kills.
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You know, I now realize I’ve been terribly insensitive to Lute. What first appeared as a handful of posts serving as thinly disguised call for attention and forced respect, was actually a call for help. After looking at his rank and stats (see, I know where you were going with your posts, buddy), I can see the turmoil that must exist for him and the other rank masters. Lute, in his humility, avoids credit for his accomplishments, passing them off as some byproduct of his natural gameplay. But, as the great rank player Voss (perhaps rank’s greatest icon) once noted in a detailed thread, there is actually a lot of work required to rank high consistently month after month. Spawn points to be camped, vulch runs to be made, fights to be accepted or avoided depending on the situation, undefended strats to be bombed from time to time -- a serious amount of thought and effort. And then there is the time, lots and lots of time -- 80 to 90 hours a month devoted to the effort in Lute’s case.
And what does HTC do to reward those rank-focused players, to let us all know who are the rankest of the rank? Not much. Why, large portions of the player base likely don’t even know who Lute is, or the effort he has put forth to be the best of the best. It’s sad to say, and I’m a bit ashamed that many, myself included, never even cared! It must be galling to put in as much time and effort each month as you would to get an undergraduate degree, an MBA or a law degree (part time) and not receive the recognition that you feel is justly deserved. To have to resort to demeaning “look at me, check my scores” BBS posts while lesser men like Drex, Fester, DMF and even that obnoxious Shane get accolades heaped on them by others out of the blue. And for what? They seldom land a kill, never jump in a GV and most seem to end up with a k/d in the 2-1 range. Even a hack like me can do that (with a lot more effort and lower k/t of course…)
So, on behalf of this overlooked core of the community, the AH salt of the earth, I will step forward and say what they are too humble to say. HTC, give these individuals the attention they so desperately crave! I suggest a splash screen when you log into the MA, like the survey pop up only far more grand. It would list the highest ranking players and the highest ranking squads. Maybe each could provide a short bio for those interested (though watch out for those calming to fly for the CIA!). Perhaps the close button would read something, like “Salute, my AH Heroes!” I may be pushing it, but you could even add a special button by each of their names to send them a personal greeting, a “You da Man” kind of thing that would appear in their mailboxes each day like a flood of so many e-birthday cards.
Wow, I feel spent.
Charon
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Originally posted by Charon
You know, I now realize I’ve been terribly insensitive to Lute. What first appeared as a handful of posts serving as thinly disguised call for attention and forced respect, was actually a call for help. After looking at his rank and stats (see, I know where you were going with your posts, buddy), I can see the turmoil that must exist for him and the other rank masters. Lute, in his humility, avoids credit for his accomplishments, passing them off as some byproduct of his natural gameplay. But, as the great rank player Voss (perhaps rank’s greatest icon) once noted in a detailed thread, there is actually a lot of work required to rank high consistently month after month. Spawn points to be camped, vulch runs to be made, fights to be accepted or avoided depending on the situation, undefended strats to be bombed from time to time -- a serious amount of thought and effort. And then there is the time, lots and lots of time -- 80 to 90 hours a month devoted to the effort in Lute’s case.
And what does HTC do to reward those rank-focused players, to let us all know who are the rankest of the rank? Not much. Why, large portions of the player base likely don’t even know who Lute is, or the effort he has put forth to be the best of the best. It’s sad to say, and I’m a bit ashamed, that many, myself included, never even cared! It must be galling to put in as much time and effort each month as you would to get an undergraduate degree, an MBA or a law degree (part time) and not receive the recognition that you feel is justly deserved. To have to resort to demeaning “look at me, check my scores” BBS posts while lesser men like Drex, Fester, DMF and even that obnoxious Shane get accolades heaped on them by others out of the blue. And for what? They seldom land a kill, never jump in a GV and most seem to end up with a k/d in the 2-1 range. Even a hack like me can do that (with a lot more effort and lower k/t of course…)
So, on behalf of this overlooked core of the community, the AH salt of the earth, I will step forward and say what they are too humble to say. HTC, give these individuals the attention they so desperately crave! I suggest a splash screen when you log into the MA, like the survey pop up only far more grand. It would list the highest ranking players and the highest ranking squads. Maybe each could provide a short bio for those interested (though watch out for those calming to fly for the CIA!). Perhaps the close button would read something, like “Salute, my AH Heroes!” I may be pushing it, but you could even add a special button by each of their names to send them a personal greeting, a “You da Man” kind of thing that would appear in their mailboxes each day like a flood of so many e-birthday cards.
Wow, I feel spent.
Charon
:rofl
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Originally posted by thrila
I'm currently adapting to using rudder pedals so i'm flying into very poor odds, very often to get as much experience in the shortest space of time.
How you doing with the pedals? I find I overcontrol on rudder, and wish they had more resistance. I'm just starting to be able to fly again!
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Originally posted by Charon
to save space, not gonna quote the whole thing, just look up and read if you wanna waste 2min of your life on mindless drivel
Wow, I feel spent.
Charon
ok...1st off all I mentioned was how much TIME was spent flying as a fighter. Nobody (at least not me) was brining up "rank" to prove a point. As far as k/d goes, i'll use you, charon, as an example. If you take off 45 times in a fighter (you last tour) and only kill 30 planes, that is fairly unremarkable. Blame it on being vulched (duh, don't up capped fields) or whatever you want to. IMHO that says something about your ability. Not much, but something. In my book, it places you in the "people who probably can't teach me anything" catagory.
After one particular tour where I mouthed off to anybody ranked in the top 20 to get 'em to go to the DA w/ me, I quickly learned how worthless rank meant in so far as your fighting ability. Granted, I rarely end a tour over 20th in rank, and many top 10's. What you seemed to miss was that I did VERY little to achieve it. Out of them 80hrs a month, say maybe 45min is spent on "helping" my rank at the most. Prob. far less. I disagree w/ Voss that alot of effort needs to be made to be in the top 20. TOP 5, yup, that is some work. Prob. a good 10hrs were spent in the tours I cracked the top 5. But I still fought, and died, and never flew like a "wuss" to try and protect my rank. Most of those 10hrs would be in a buff doing strat hits in Ju87's or some similar thing. Or doing alot of goon/m3 runs. Never was much for spawn camping gv's. Far too dull.
MY original point was that with such little flight time, how much could you teach. Period. If I am looking for training, I dont' grab some guy who hardly fly's in a fighter looking for him to teach me anything. I would grab Urchin, or Shane, (or levi, wldthing,Nath, somebody that can "beat" me 6-7 fights out of 10) to go to the DA with. None of 'em are consistantly low ranked pilots. Rank is meaningless in re: your fighting ability.
I also don't tend to run off at the mouth on ch200 berating guys who kill me. You get a tame "g/k" most of the time, SOMETIMES some commentary re: how I screwed up (i.e. my SA sux or some such thing), but never a "lucky kill you dweeb" like many will do. Not here to get into verbal battles. I much prefer to let my guns do the talkin'.
Sorry you misconstrued what I meant. Fairly sure I said I am not here to flame anybody, so don't start one. Charon, IF you think you have anything to show me re: how to fight 1 on 1, I would be happy to have a lesson with you in the DA to see just how "good" you are. Heck, you've been flying for at least 3 1/2 years, you SHOULD be able to show me a trick or 3.
Sadly, I somehow doubt it. BUT I love being proved wrong.
thrila, again, wasn't flaming you. You are not a "bad" pilot, and i'm sure you have things your can teach people. Maybe I was out of line, and if offence was taken, my humble apologies. Seriously. Your are just not one I would go to or think about for training, but that doesn't mean you couldn't show rshubert a thing or three.
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That was inspiring. You managed to include self promotion and false humility into a weave of assumed superiority in a way I have never seen before. Truly awesome. I want to have your baby.
shubie
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Originally posted by rshubert
That was inspiring. You managed to include self promotion and false humility into a weave of assumed superiority in a way I have never seen before. Truly awesome. I want to have your baby.
shubie
lol it's a gift.......
.....assumed??????
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as charon implied....
Any Rank system that doesn't have drex and DMF in it as the two leaders is not a rank system based on skill.
If you are any good in this game people know it... If you aren't and want to be you get rank and then have to tell everyone about it.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Self appointed one rank abhove general
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I get the feeling that some people have never fought Lute in a few 1v1's, either in the DA or in KoTH...
I also get the feeling that some people who are calling him certain things have never seen Lute deal with trolls and mouth-runners.
But I'll back up Thrila, I've ran into him a few times and I'd call him a pretty good stick, for what it's worth.
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Let’s look more closely at Lute’s scores.
Wmlute is ranked 16th. Going back a few tours he seems to stay ranked towards the middle to top of the pack. He has a K/D of 7, a K/S of 1.75, a k/h of 6.4 and similar attack ranks. He has 251 kills for 39 deaths and has landed 73 out of 124 sorties. He has already played 33 hours this month.
165 Kills in a N1K2 out of 251 total, with ship gunner and Me262 following closest at 14 each and 9 in a Tiger 1. The rest distributed in a variety of aircraft and GVs.
Kills of are primarily slower planes like Spit 5/9/Seafire, C-47s, etc. Of the fast planes there are 10 La-7s, 9 Typhoons, 2 Yaks, 1 G10, 1 D9, 1 51D (25 out of 251).
Killed by, the top 4 are Ostwind, N1K2, LA-7 and Panzer.
Scenario 1: Lute and his merry band of brothers fly to where the fiercest action is and start fighting. He fiercely destroys those plans that aren’t fast enough to run from his guns, while avoiding the passes of the numerous P-51s, La-7s, 190Ds and G10s that seem to populate the “hottest” areas of the arena. Once he has had his fill of kills, he heads back to base. Again, he deftly dodges the numerous faster plans that follow him in his relatively slow N1K2, who are uniquely wise for a change since few of them seem to blow their e and wallow around in front of his Nik2 like they do when there are a lot of them and they see a potentially easy kill. He lands an amazing number of his sorties in this environment, and is truly one of the greatest virtual pilots in the game. Even guys like Drex and DMF, flying with an excellent group of A2A squadmates fail to land most of their kills. Lute is truly an overlooked gem.
Scenario 2: Lute and his merry band of brothers fly to the big green bar facing the small red bar. Lute is a good pilot, likely even an excellent pilot. I have no trouble conceding that he may even be a better pilot than me. If so, he joins a large (but hardly elite) club. Flying the N1k2, and with many, many hours in it and above average skills, he can usually cut to the front of the conga line on the slower planes, each suffering from severe SA overload, and get the kill. With a bunch of friendlies around, included dedicated squadmates watching his back, he seldom has to worry about the occasional fast plane that shows up from a base away. That plane also probably has 15 or more targets to select from, which adds to the safety factor. The occasional fast LA-7 flying low alt base dfense manages to get him on occasion, as does the occasional target. The flight usually ends with an uninterrupted flight home from a capped base or landing at the base after a capture. Multiply by 80 or 90 hours, do those special required things, perform attacks in the same environment, and voila! There’s the rank and the k/d.
Which is the real Lute? You can be an excellent pilot and be very successful in scenario 2, but from what I've seen the elite pilots tend to be more scenario 1 types. It's also been a mystery to me why the guys who are really good remain interested in scenario 2 flying.
Charon
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As to the rest, I was hardly positioning myself as a tactical expert of any sort, and that should be obvious to anybody who has paid attention to any of the posts. Jam had a good idea, it seemed to be dying and I tried to pump some life into it. There weren't all that many "great ones" stepping up to the plate. In fact, aside from trying to be a cheerleader I had no ambitions of leading the great assault, as my posts clearly point out. I just want to see an environment develop where there is a lot more H2H fighting or my already limited 8 or so hours a month will become 0 shortly. Purely selfish, but I only play this game for fun and not self-actualization, and fun, to me, is a lot of good H2H fighting.
[And all I get for the effort is to be insulted (along with a bunch of others) by someone who doesn't know me, and who comes in here spouting off about what he "would have done" had he...yada yada yada while talking up how great he is. Where the hell were you when you could have made a difference?]
to Lute if my assumptions are wrong and you do meet fire with fire on a regular basis. If so, then maybe you would like to organize and lead the next big big confrontation if Shubie is agreeable. If you can get 20 or more together and keep up the fight in the face of resistance (including if things don't go your way at first) then I will personally kiss your virtual bellybutton for the effort. That is what this thread has been about and if you're making the offer, make it happen. I'll drag my rusty bellybutton there, follow your lead and maybe even contribute a few kills to the cause. If you consistently seek out H2H engagements against reasonable defenses, or defend against heavy attacks I will likely follow you around like a puppy dog when you’re online.
Charon
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I have enjoyed our discussions of the issues, and your impeccable manners. From my standpoint, the issue is still not resolved, as the opposition was not organized. We really must do this again. How about Monday night, the 24th, at about 9:30 eastern? Bring more friends this time!
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KOTH is this sat. Why don't y'all join me in the SEA and see if I am all talk or not.
If that's not avail. I am on Sour's flgithladder, come join and issue me a challenge. Or even the trip to the DA would be amusing. I use the Sig I have for a reason...
(edit: cc Shubie, I will see what I can do. I'll email the squad, and grab some other squads (JB's, FB's, CH's etc... and see if we can get a "rumble" going on monday.)
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Wmlute how am i supposed to take it? You first suggest you can help shubie, then go on to say i am not capable, you don't even know who am I. You assume that i know little about ACM and 1v1 fiights because i only fly for a few hours? I've flown for years, mostly 20-40 hours a month, which is a lot of hours, my friends see as exessive for a game. I simply do not have the time to fly any more than that if i wanted. I've done everything over the tours including flying for rank, missions, super high k/d, furballing and flying little used planesNow i'm more content to do a little bit of everything aslong as it involves a2a combat.
You think i've never fought urchin, shane et al? I doubt they have many negative things to say about me. I'm quite content do my thing quietly and not toot my own horn. I don't mind that you don't know how i fly or who i am, i do however find it offensive in essence calling someone a poor pilot when you haven't the foggiest who they are.
Shubie, the pedals are ok. I'm still not 100% with them though. If a fight gets intense i still every now and then apply opposite rudder by mistake, low speed fights are dangerous, i have many an auger to my name.:D i'm missing brief snapshots i used to get, not applying the correct amount of rudder. Sure i'll get used to it eventually though.:)
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KOTH is this sat. Why don't y'all join me in the SEA and see if I am all talk or not.
If that's not avail. I am on Sour's flgithladder, come join and issue me a challange. Or even the trip to the DA would be amusing. I use the Sig I have for a reason...
(edit: cc Shubie, I will see what I can do. I'll email the squad, and grab some other squads (JB's, FB's, CH's etc... and see if we can get a "rumble" going on monday.)
I have no problem with that actually. Obviously, if you participate in these events you are not the typical score pilot. I just don't particularly like being insulted off hand by someone who doesn't know me. And, of course, the whole bragging thing is a bit unbecoming, more so if you can actually "walk the walk." I have heard of both events and was interested in both but didn't know the details. What is the format for KOTH? Saturday kind of sucks for me, but we'll see. I have already managed to get shot down by DMF, Fester, Drex, Urchin -- the under-rated Eagler and even HiTech and Pyro. If I end up adding you and Shane to that list (who I was considering taking up on his open TA offer) I won't lose any sleep over it.
I have been playing these games since 1993, pretty much as I described earlier, and have managed a positive K/d since the middle of that first year. I consider myself to be a B pilot, B+ on a very good day when in practice and B- when I am as rusty as I am now. Mainly, I lose my gunnery and need to be dead 6 to get a kill. I just hope I can provide some degree of competition out of the box. In fact, this may be another area to ease the boredom factor, since I have a lot less frustration being killed 1v1 by a better pilot than I do by a nameless face in the red crowd. I have no problem starting out at the bottom and seeing if I can work my way up. It might return some interest and challenge to the game. However, I don't really see myself being able to commit to more than 20 or so hours a month and keep up with RL demands, so there will be limits.
And, I am glad you are taking the lead on the Shubie challenge. I'll be there and maybe bring a buddy. Keep it posted.
Charon
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Well dang.
LOL WMLute is my CO. He flys n fights petty much as he says. Not saying that because he's CO.
LOL Consider the fact that I try to get his lady to hit him for me :) AND SHE DOES :D
OH and I've sang the BOOGER song about him, over the local and squad channel, TOO :D
He's not what I would call a vain, or arrogant person. He's more like a squadie then a CO.
RE: pedals, whoa when I first started using em I couldn't hit anything! Musta took me 3 months to get adjusted to them. Now? Not sure I could fly without em.
BTW Charon I fight allot of defensive fights! Love em. Did some of that at A243 defending against inb from A44 this morning. And at A5 before that. You're more then welcome to come along anytime :D
Hmm thinkin the nits need a good ONE OH NINER :)
Thats a 109 fighter sweep mission of a hot area. Did it up for another arena but thinkin it should tranfer over. We had a great turnout and fight during it and it started a hugh furball afterward.
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Well, my final comment on the WMLute issue is this.
Anybody who thinks they have nothing to learn has EVERYTHING to learn. Anybody who is so quick to attack others is probably hiding something that causes them embarassment.
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Originally posted by rshubert
Well, my final comment on the WMLute issue is this.
Anybody who thinks they have nothing to learn has EVERYTHING to learn. Anybody who is so quick to attack others is probably hiding something that causes them embarassment.
I've been taught life lessons by homeless people before. I've never considered myself NOT able to learn for anybody. When I said I had nothing to learn from charon, I said PROBABLY. I also said I hope I could be proven wrong. There is the off chance he can teach me something. Again, I doubt it, but anything is possible.
RE: the KOTH. KOTH's are awesome. Prob. some of the best fights I have ever been in/seen have been in the KOTH format. Basically, everybody takes off, and flys off in diff. directions in a limited area. Recently, it's been you have to stay within the radar circle of a certain field. You have to get 5k speration from everybody, and stay under a specified alt (usually 8k). When fight is called, everybody turns back and fights. You HAVE to fight. There is no running. You are allowed 60 seconds to run, but then you HAVE to turn and fight. In essence, it's a giant furball. The last guy standing picks the plane for the next round and off we all go again. The WINNER of koth is the 1st person to be the last one flying three times. Win three rounds, you've won KOTH. Myself, after I won both a Euro KOTH and a USA KOTH, I quit flying to win. I go for the fights, and to see how long, or how many matches we can go. If somebody has two wins, I go for them 1st (or try to) so there is a next round. I almost always have two wins in the KOTH. I actually pref. being a two time winner, because everybody then targets you, and you get swarmed by 3-5 guys all bent on killing you 1st. It's INCREDIBLY fun, and I can't count how many truely awesome matches I have had. I hope you are able to make it Saturday. (BigMax mentioned possibly Friday night. I hope we get a set time soon)
Re: stats and rank. I opened up that can of worms by mentioning Charon's horrible k/d ratio. I obviously hit a nerve, and i'm sorry you felt embarrased to the extend that you have to post a a couple novella's attempting to insult me. Your post have been somewhat clever, but WAY off base. I am one of the few that I know flying that walks the walk. I like long odds. I enjoy 2 on 1's. When somebody says "hey lute, that high nme is attacking you" I go woot! I love a fight. I don't mind bad odds, and I actually enjoy it when the nme has the advantage. I AM the guy that fly's by the easy vulch to kill the field ack. When I approach a furball, I start out at the top, drive 'em down, rinse and repeat. You won't find me going nose down at the first co alt opponent. I also am able to back up what I say. Period. It's not ego. It ain't bragin' if you can back it up. ANYBODY can get a low rank. Mine is a byproduct of how I fly. I bring eggs, so attack #'s good. I love a fight, and mix it up, so fighter rank is good. I HATE level bombing, so that is the only stat that I "work" on. I enjoy gv's a bit, but never had the patience for spawn camping. Oh i've done it, but usually get bored if I have to wait more than ten min, and generally .ef. But outside of a Ju87 ride or three, I never "work" on my rank. So your continued harps on me being "score" driven need to really stop. A top 10 rank fails to impress me. Taking me to the DA and beating me, or at least makin' me work for it, THAT impresses me. Something I hope you will do, or can do in the near future. NOT flaming anybody, and I have gone out of my way to apologise if anybody felt that I did. I just call 'em as I see 'em. Never been one to pull punches.
Oh and Charon/Shubie, I'll know more soon re. Monday night. I sent out a squad email, and will talk w/ a couple co's this weekend. We will see what we can come up with.
How many times can I state that rank has no meaning re: fighting ability? Y'all are, and have been, preaching to the choir here. Just because I usually HAVE a low (ish) rank, I am not driven by it. It doesn't shape me as a pilot, or say much about how "good" I am.
Thrilla, I don't know what more I can say. If I am going to learn how to be a play the trumpet, do I want a teacher that used to play in college and still plays some, or the 1st chair in the local symphony, who also gives private lessons? Whom would YOU want to learn from? I made a comment on your lack of flying time. That's it. IF you give it just a wee bit of thought, you could see where i'm coming from here. Don't recall infering that you were a "poor" pilot. I was just intrigued at the names shubie threw out. Found them "interesting". I also would be glad to get a lesson from you in the DA, or TA sometime soon. Let's see how much you have to "teach' me. Let's stop w/ the banter, and let our virtual guns do the talking.
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Taking me to the DA and beating me, or at least makin' me work for it, THAT impresses me.
You know Lute, being a decent person impresses me. Regardless of how good a pilot you may be in here, in this video game, you really come across as one of life's losers. Are you so small and petty in the real world that you have to be such a complete and raging bellybutton in the virtual one? You're not worth my time. I'll let someone like Shane, who I tend to respect as a person and a pilot, teach me things if he is willing to go a few rounds.
Charon
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I don't understand how that quote makes him a life loser or dick...
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Well Vudak, that quote shows what impresses him, I noted what impresses me. And the rest of his response the quote came from shows what type of guy he is.
He just seems to like to put people down, and I don't think it's a stretch to say he does that to pump himself up. Losers like to put people down to make themselves feel better. He started throwing out insults, I responded (as he would say, called it like I see it), he gave me something to think about and I backed away and gave him credit. No problem, can't we all just get along :)
But, he continues with the put-downs. I had no problem with him before his posts, had got over that, and now it’s back with the put downs. I don’t associate with insulting people in RL and certainly don’t in a video game I play for fun. He may be a great virtual video game pilot, but the truly great ones seem to be pretty great people as well. I have yet to see Drex or DMF insult anybody. Shane talks trash, but I also know he is more than willing to do something like go in the TA and work with people. That simple.
[I'm out of this too. I didn't know who he was until a few posts ago, and thanks to the ignore button I never have to know who he is again]
Charon
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Ya know... we got a lot of pretty good sticks in our squad and they all seem like nice guys... don't think any of em have ever kicked an old lady or puppy punted for fun... some even have accumulated a few bucks.. some are pretty good at about anything they try..
NONE of em have ever subjected me to the drivel I just read in the above post.
The BK's have no rules to speak of save one... If any new guy wants in and even ONE current member doesn't want him in.... he don't make it.
So long as I am a BK.... the guy above will never be one..
If I had to listen to this guys accomplishments on voice I would probly upchuck.
lazs
Public Relations Officer For the BK's
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lol Lazs. You rock. haha :D:rofl
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Originally posted by rshubert
Well, my final comment on the WMLute issue is this.
Anybody who thinks they have nothing to learn has EVERYTHING to learn. Anybody who is so quick to attack others is probably hiding something that causes them embarassment.
I once went tinkle on my neighbors front door.
There its out. Happy now???
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Originally posted by lazs2
If I had to listen to this guys accomplishments on voice I would probly upchuck.
lazs
Public Relations Officer For the BK's
Agreed, and i have a really strong stomach.
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My wonderful post is now ruined. I guess it should have been called "The start of something ruined". I kindly asked that this not start into a flame war. This is one reason why nothing ever gets solved in here. We have something wrong with the arena and now we are talking about individual stats and accomplishments. Take that stuff somewhere else
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jamusta... in the grand scheme of things.... It's all related. And it all has equal effect.
lazs
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I see somebody removed a post between mine and the one Laz made. Very clever actually :) Thanks for the support, BTW, and Jam, I apologize for my role in hijacking the thread. I have perhaps been a bit hypocritical myself, since I obviously let my self get bent out of shape over something that I should have laughed at and ignored from the start.
Charon
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Hmmm...
Shane Hmmmmm... I've actually shot him down err ahhh maybe once LOL.
Caught him low fightin 2 other nits he was in a P47 and I still had to make 2 passes. I was in a P40.
Got lucky. I turned and he was right there. So i fired and down he went.
Soooo IMHO had it been 1 v 1 I probably would have lost.
Shane
Others i've fought? Lets see I shot down rawr once. LOL tried 3 times, 1st 2 were 1 v 1, 3rd time I got him BUT there were like 4 other on him with me.
Soooooooo IMHO 1v1 I would have lost the thrid time too. rawr AKA ******
That XtremJ guy in his P38 is JUST a BULLY LOL
Lost a 1 v 1 to him too.
I really enjoy these good fights! Lots of rolling and turning etc. The list of the people that can take me 1 v 1 is long!!!! LOL
Wish my connect didn't suck so bad. Might be able to give em more of a fight. Getting so what I see on my FE is not what I get. Packet loss on every connect I got. About 3% to as much as 30% all at one or another of the savvis.net hop. Average ping time for me is over 250 :(.
OH WELL I'll keep pluggin away for now but..... gettin real tired of lookin my 6 flyin to avoid and the con isn't even pointing at me and bang I get hit :(
Had one yesterday came in my twelve, I moved to avoid the HO, looked good my FE, looked like I was clear, and POW tracers all around me and, engine oil out. Also gettin tired of getting the site on em pulling the triger and POP they miniwarp in any direction just enough that I miss. Right under em right over em just a hair left or right or whatever :mad: . And every now and then tracer look like they go right through em. Gettin old.
I need DSL or cable but .... NOT available here :(
It's in town but I'm located just out of reach on the edge :(
Hoping I can get a better connect and work on my ACM and give em all a better fight all.
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Originally posted by lazs2
If you are any good in this game people know it... If you aren't and want to be you get rank and then have to tell everyone about it.
Yup.
- oldman (who has had the envious opportunity of observing the best)
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hmm... that is wierd.. the post above mine and the person I was refering to was lute. I bet it must be a real hoot to listen to that squads daisy chain of back slapping during a milkrun to kill toolsheds.
Oldman... I have allways liked fighting you and you put up a pretty darn good fight in the CT. Odds or not.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by jamusta
My wonderful post is now ruined. I guess it should have been called "The start of something ruined".
Think of the beginning of your thread as a fun furball, jamusta. Then think of its ruination as some strat-minded do-gooder taking out the fighter hangars at the nearby base because we're concentrating too much on Air Quake and not focusing on the big picture.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by lazs2
The BK's have no rules to speak of save one... If any new guy wants in and even ONE current member doesn't want him in.... he don't make it.
So long as I am a BK.... the guy above will never be one..
that is wierd.. the post above mine and the person I was refering to was lute. I bet it must be a real hoot to listen to that squads daisy chain of back slapping during a milkrun to kill toolsheds.
lazs
Public Relations Officer For the BK's
Why would I DOWNgrade squads? ROFL laz you being silly. I have my own squad of awesome guys, who are second to none. Couldn't imagine NOT flying w/ 'em. Heck...only been w/ the squad for let's see.... is it eight years now? Top notch bunch.
Whole time my squad is flying we are joking, and laughing, WHILE taking care of business. Not really a milk runner in the bunch (except for my couple of score potato hops a month in a Stuka). We dislike hordes, frown on killing fh's, and are VERY good at what we do. Why you have decided to insult my squad I have no idea, but you sir, are about as intuitive as charon was. Funny thing is, i'm on reasonably friendly terms with many in the the BK's. Dunno why you want to drag them all into this. I've HAD a fairly high opinion of the BK's, thanks for ruining it. They need a PR guy that has a clue. You sir, unfort. don't.
You got an issue w/ me? Fine. I'm a big boy. I can take ya' to the DA and die, or kill you. Don't drag our squads into this. It's petty and small.
I find it mildly interesting that you read what I typed (and since deleted) and found something in yourself, or your life, SO very lacking, or mediocre, that you had to try and take me down a notch. Sorry it sucks so much to be you, and have to try and jump all over me because you are so paltry. Quit humping my ankle.
As far as deletin' my post, eh.... wasn't worth it anymore. I got nutin' to prove to a guy like Charon (or you actually, why am I even typing this??), and not quite sure why I was (am) even replying to someone obviously sooooo oblivious,.
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nope... just took a vote... all the BK's think you are a pompous joke. You are simply not good at catching nuances. Course...
hard to get an accurate vote these days since we are growing so fast and.... if they don't vote my way I yell at them and belittle em.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
savior of orphans from burning buildings.
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Lute, all it sounds like is that you've got something to prove. And when it gets to the point, when your in a game and your playing to prove something, its time to reassess things... And life in general.
As for you guys who love to smach those FH's down and kill towns in under a minute.Hell,I saw a guy saluting my FH's as he was bombing them. I kid you not.
If you didnt like the fact that Jamusta was trying/going to form something to counter your horde like tactics with just that, then you could have fought it out in the MA rather than looking like fools here. But its hard to hold back something that comes naturally.
Again though, this would be a problem seeing as you dont fight.
Jamusta, I think your best hope for getting something like this going would be to run missions. Not missions of the generic horde type. Missions that include a planned fighter sweep, hard deck ect... Posting a topic like this on the BB and asking grown men to take it seriously seems like it wouldn't be hard. But you have to understand what it is/who it is your dealing with.
Finding a mission is very simple. Just watch the map. When a full sector of dar pops up instantly something is going on. You know that as well as I do though. When you see that happening, post a mission with 20 La7's and go to work. Honestly. Dont be stylish about this. Just roll to get the job done. An La7 would work nicely in a large group of even 5 wingman working together to counter a mission, or atleast make every jabo get light to live. There would be no runners, because you'd already have speed on them being light. It' would be perfect.
Once everyone got past their "gaming pride" and accepted the La7 in the misison it would be a very effective counter measure against the bombing, FH saluting, SIM City killing horde.
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Originally posted by streetstang
If you didnt like the fact that Jamusta was trying/going to form something to counter your horde like tactics with just that, then you could have fought it out in the MA rather than looking like fools here. But its hard to hold back something that comes naturally.
Again though, this would be a problem seeing as you dont fight.
Where ever did you get the impression that I was THAT kind of a pilot. Are you really that dense? Do you TRULY have no clue about me what so ever? (well obviously not)
About the most comically inane thing i've seen posted here to date. (and that's including Nash's posts during the election)
I don't fight?? REALLY.... ya' think that do ya'?? That's just plain moronic, and about as off as one could possibly be. I'm on Sour's dueling ladder. Feel free to give me a go. Or simlpy just say when. I'll let you know if I can be there. I have no fear of dying, let's see if you feel the same. I'm betting that you will retort w/ some flip answer, and try and dodge the challenge. Hope not, I love a good fight. I been the one saying to take it to the DA, and keep it off the BBS earlier in this thread. The people in question just didn't have the stomach for a fight. They'd much rather talk smack on the bbs. Most of what you've said re. that I already have posted in this thread. Do your really have no reading comprehension, or ability for cognative thought. Let's see if YOU are the type that will fight.
I've supported Jamusta from the get go in this thread, IIRC the S.H.E.E.P name was MINE. I'm the guy talkin' w/ other knit squads about teaming up to stop shubies horde run this monday night.
Let's give a go at trying to make this nice and simple for you, as it appears your reading acumen is a bit on the lacking side.
RShubert=Horde guy.
WMLute=guy gonna stop the horde.
There. That simple 'nuff or do I need to dumb it down some more?
In the future please at least try to have a basic understanding about what you are posting about.
Took a vote did ya' laz? Awww... how cute. Like I said, if I ever decide to lower my standards and leave the WidowMakers, I guess the BK's are off my list of potental squaddies. I'm touched that you decided to ask for me. You know, I always did like nopoop, and wadke. Levi is good people as well. Nomak SEEMS a decent sort, and Redd is nice 'nuff. Unfort I would not be a good fit for your group. I LIKE a nice clean base captures (rules y'all out now don't it), and mixing it up far too much to be a BK. I like dopping vh's, and killing towns. Nothing better to me than being the 1st guy (or only guy) at a field w/ nme at it, killing 'em, deacking the place, and caping it. I almost always up w/ eggs, and killing the one tiger in the town keeping us from capturing a field (you remember how to capture fields right? I know it's been awhile for y'all) and killing it gives me much delight. Never was one for hunting the fringe all that much. Yup, your are absolutely correct that I would not make a very good Blue Knight. But again, t/y for your consideration. It 's just not meant to be.
Not sure why you decided to poke in here and stirr things up. To borrow a phrase, I guess it has to do with something "lacking" in your life". I'm ok with your being petty and small. Heck, sorry about your "can't measure up, have to be insulting to cover up for my defects" issues. I got a solution for you though. Head over to flightladder.com and challenge me. Unless you one are one of them "only talk smack on the bbs, not willing to fight it out" kinda guys. (go ahead and say you got nothing to prove, but we both understand that really means you are "lacking" in guts to take me up on it)
You like stirring the pot. Great. Who doesn't like to set the hook after a well flung bait. If that is the case, consider me hooked. BUT if you are actually serious about what u2 have posted, my opinion of y'as just dropped immensely, and you need to lay off the crack, it's frying your brain.
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Lute your analogy simply doesn't work because as i've said previously you don't have a clue what i'm like. Your opinion of me is baseless and of ignorance.
So you are asking me for a duel? do you feel you have to prove yourself to me? I've nothing to prove to you, as i said before i'm pretty content flying around unnoticed.
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Originally posted by Edbert
In other words, it doesn't take an entire horde to beat back the horde. Jamusta just needs a few skilled sticks to show up and frighten the lemmings into moving elsewhere. Then the anti-horders will follow them to their new location. Once the horders see the pattern, they will attack the other country. Case closed :D
Been there, done that. Even with Jam a time or two.
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Originally posted by thrila
There's nothing wrong with my flying, wmlute.
The Bops is a fantastic squad filled with many great guys, i couldn't wish for a better one. There is very little command structure and few rules, which suits me fine. Our primary goal is to have fun whether it's missions, taking bases, gv-ing or furballing. We have a wide range of guys with different passions for the game. I personally have little interest in missions or "the war", so it's rare that i'll be in a capture mission and no-one on the squad minds i don't join them. I will however join missions on squad night and it's worth it just to hear everyone chat and joke on vox.
We can all find enjoyment in the game just in different forms.
Sounds like the WMs... but you guys really ought to put shubie on a leash.
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Originally posted by Charon
You know Lute, being a decent person impresses me. Regardless of how good a pilot you may be in here, in this video game, you really come across as one of life's losers. Are you so small and petty in the real world that you have to be such a complete and raging bellybutton in the virtual one? You're not worth my time. I'll let someone like Shane, who I tend to respect as a person and a pilot, teach me things if he is willing to go a few rounds.
Charon
Actually, some of the stuff I hear from Shane sounds much worse. However, I understand that much of what Shane says is to get the other pilots riled and on edge. He seems like a pretty decent person for this community. Now why the hell does Lute's comment boil your blood? Sounds like Shane, ManeTMP, Morph, Oct, et. all would be Impressed by much the same.
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LOL Morph:
Originally posted by jamusta
I am serious.. Myself Nomde WMLute and a few others had a ball the other night stopping an attack. So I was just wondering if it was possible to bring together like minded individuals to intercept the horde between bases. Sort of like cutting off the supply lines. Instead of going to a map and looking for an even fight we can mass together and head for the horde and make the fight even. Much more fun than upping from a CAP'd base.
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Originally posted by lazs2
hmm... that is wierd.. the post above mine and the person I was refering to was lute. I bet it must be a real hoot to listen to that squads daisy chain of back slapping during a milkrun to kill toolsheds.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
:D If it was only kept on squad channel it would be a miracle. You ought to see some of the text professoring that goes on in the early morning hours sometimes. Recently we watched and snickered at about a 2 hour, channel 200,
facts of life seminar from him and a trusty sidekick that entailed everything from how everyone else was playing the game wrong to who was completely wrong on every statement made about anything from planes to current milk prices. It was quite enlighteneing and educational, especialy since this was a free lecture and you didn`t even have to book a spot at the local Holiday Inn to attend.
In all honesty I have to admit it made for some hilarious comments on our country channel . At one point about an hour or so into this tirade the comment was made " I wish them two would run outa meth. Let`s see...... who made that comment? :D
Lute you do nothing but chest thump and rattle your gums concerning your superior skill and knowledge in the game on every possible subject, then turn around and make statements denying and trying to cover up everything you state. You are doing the same thing here on the BBS. Anytime anyone makes a comment ingame that you don`t like out comes the " Go to DA and prove it" then the I have a " If you are, in fact, the meansest SOB in the valley and just have to prove something to yourself I suggest this. Do as most do concerning wanting to go to DA. Come into the game, get on channel 200 and simply ask " Does anyone want to go to DA for a few rounds?" It works for those who really are just interested in such things and doesn`t require a long , drawn out chest thumping session, then an equaly long lecture trying to convince anyone that what you just said was not.......well......what you just said. Most in the MA came to the MA to play in the MA with MA gameplay.
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Shubie,
Bring it. Period. Moday night I will be there to shamelessly put down your merry band of toolshedders.
BTW, this is what competittion is about. Pure and simple. I don't know much about the OLE AW days, but this sounds like a good tase of the AH community stepping up and making things interesting.
Oh yeah, and this isn't my attempt at a virtual **** measuring contest.
But just in case, here is a proof of my 6.5 pound wiener:
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-12/903579/Doxie.jpg)
:D
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Now....back to the issue at hand.
This is one of the few rare threads where I can see that , for once, the dyed in the wool furballer and those of us who like to indulge in the attack end of the game without the use of ridiculously overpowering odds, are shooting for, basiscaly the same goal.
I happened on another way to deal with the horde issue last night quite by accident. Bish and Knights were swapping horde time slots on a couple of bases. Bish would up an ultra horde and attack a knight base to our south. Knights would in turn up another base and do a reverse horde attack on the Bish base. Everything was going pretty smooth, prodcing some pretty battles until one or the other would get the least bit of advantage, then here would come the bandwagon jumpers to try to overthrow the local government with overpowering numbers. I watched this for an hour or so chuckling to myself. Quite frankly, at most time the Knights were holding off twice their number due to the fact that the super leaders our horde was spending most of the time on country channel doing the L`il general thingy
and never even getting to the base to attack. In other words, it translates into " I wish someone would actualy cap that field so we can vulch because I`m getting my tail whooped before I get there" kind of thing.
Eventualy some Knights clicked to the fact that they had a base one sector over that could be used to horde the horde that was hordeing them from. :D
I spent an hour or so upping from the Bish base , going to the Knight base and keeping ord and troops down. I was the only one going there so it made for some pretty intense skirmishs after I had dropped my ord from the guys that were upping and defending this base. Of course since I was the only one going there I was always outnumbered. Who gives a rat`s hiney, it was fun.
It was way more fun though to watch our ultra horders getting their butt kicked by 1/4 to 1/2 of their numbers just for the sheer fact that the Knights actualy had a clue what they were doing and our hordefest were totaly lost and getting quite annoyed.
Eventualy though, as usualy the case, we got a slight advantage on the Knights and out came the closet horder wannabes that wouldn`t get into the battle until safety was guaranteed and the Knight base was taken.
Immediately after capture I upped from one of our fields in the area thinking things would level out somewhat. Within ten miles of leaving the base I watched our dar bar grow to 3 then 4 bars from surrounding bases. All were headed to one field. I bailed and said to H with it.
The point being that if things are kept on a level playing field as much as possible there are some great battles that emerge. It`s great for the furballer and great for folks that are into the attack aspect of the game. It just takes a little effort from all countries to keep it on the up and up.
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In all honesty I respect the horde. All it really boils down to is one big furball. As Jackl mentioned there were a few knights upping and disrupting the overwhelming advances thust at one target (aka horde). I would not be suprsed if I was one of those Knights. I think there is nothing better than climbing up to the Blitz in my Zeke to turn circles around the opposition. I could care less if they have 20 to 1 odds on me. Once I can get them milling about and diving for the deck usually a helping hand or two will show up and a furball developes. Needless to say, many of the toolsheders will get through. However, not as many make it to the target and "said base" will have a better chance of being defended. Case-in-point both now both the furballers and the strat/land/grab peeps get a fighting chance.
In my book it only boils down to one thing:
"This is my filthy base, not yours. It's gonna take you and the whole stinkin' bish/rook army to take it"
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lute... for someone who doesn't care you sure do go on and on and on an...
It only took you one thread before everyone knows more about you than they ever wanted to.
Not enough tho... now you have to have your imaginary friend start another thread to tell how wonderful you are.
I'm actually waiting for granny to get on and tell us all how you saved her life by jumping out of your mercedes and mowing her lawn.
lazs
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Where ever did you get the impression that I was THAT kind of a pilot. Are you really that dense? Do you TRULY have no clue about me what so ever? (well obviously not)
Lute have you done any drugs in the past? Hallucinogens of any kind?
And are you really that ignorant that you can't determine when one statement is directed at you and another is not? Dont get me wrong here now. I'm not calling you ignorant I'm asking you. I'm just making sure you UNDERSTAND that before you go taking my words out of context again here and turning them against you so the world can see you're the good guy and the rest of the cruel world is out to get you.
Alright, I'll show you where you begin in my post and where you end as well. Ready? Make sure your ready now.
Lute, all it sounds like is that you've got something to prove. And when it gets to the point, when your in a game and your playing to prove something, its time to reassess things... And life in general.
Thats you, start to finish. Or all I had to say about you. I dont know you, want to know you, nor do I have any sort of a judgement for or against you. All that I have gathered from your posts is that it does infact apear that you have much to prove to the rest to the players here. WHY I dont know. But thats what it looks like.
The rest has nothing to do with you and your magnificent world. Got it? :)
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Same Ol arrogant A-Holes, different thread. :D Boy this community has made progress :rolleyes:
Jamusta this sounds fun, please give a yell when ya do this, S!
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Originally posted by streetstang
Lute have you done any drugs in the past? Hallucinogens of any kind?
And are you really that ignorant that you can't determine when one statement is directed at you and another is not? Dont get me wrong here now. I'm not calling you ignorant I'm asking you. I'm just making sure you UNDERSTAND that before you go taking my words out of context again here and turning them against you so the world can see you're the good guy and the rest of the cruel world is out to get you.
Alright, I'll show you where you begin in my post and where you end as well. Ready? Make sure your ready now.
Thats you, start to finish. Or all I had to say about you. I dont know you, want to know you, nor do I have any sort of a judgement for or against you. All that I have gathered from your posts is that it does infact apear that you have much to prove to the rest to the players here. WHY I dont know. But thats what it looks like.
The rest has nothing to do with you and your magnificent world. Got it? :)
I bet it must be a real hoot to listen to that squads daisy chain of back slapping during a milkrun to kill toolsheds.
THAT really set me off. If I the rest was not in ref. to me, then here is my humble apology for all to see. Sorry I misunderstood.
Does this mean I don't get to duel you?
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Gonna wade in here cuz it looks like fun
Be it known that I as a WM for many years consider Lute a friend...but he is still a score potato and hears it from me every day what a degrading thing he does to the squad by actually doing good at a virtual game...the shame...
Lute likes to play this game, he tries to improve himself, he is way cocky about his abilities at flying and killing, but he can back it up..so I forgive him....He is in the TA a lot, as we say...teaching new victims...I mean peelots... how many you peeps go in there to help> ..not me - I suxor...why teach bad habits?
As for milk running horde squad, nope, once in awhile there are some missuns posted by the WM squad, usually cuz one of us says we are bored, lets cause some beeching.... most the guys are furballers, most the basic old guy core of the group -I think there are 5 or 6 now active, have flown together since aol 94 to 96 ish, and we have about 10 new guys that couldn't tell you what a vader was...so ...we ain't all that special, a few score potatos, a few furballers, a few newbies.. just some peeps that get along on vox squelching wrag cuz he sings like parrot...
I realize you guys have been baiting Lute, and he has swallowed it whole.... so I commend you all on your effort for a job well done
to JacL -- congrats on the grankid -
To Misfit - hiya ya looser :)
To Lazs - when the h*** you get so serious ? :)
to Lute - lighten up ya score potato :)
That is all
NwBie
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Does this mean I don't get to duel you?
I never knew you wanted to for one. And secondly why?
I suck.
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Originally posted by streetstang
I never knew you wanted to for one. And secondly why?
I suck.
Aw, come on Morph...take him on. I"ll bet you can beat him up and take his lunch money.
shubie
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Levi and Nomak took all my money. Its gone. I suck. Leave me alone.
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What'sa the deal tonight Shubie??
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Originally posted by Nwbie
Be it known that I as a WM for many years consider Lute a friend...but he is still a score potato
NwBie
Ya think? What was the first indication? Was it the fishnet stockings or the calcualtor that gave that away? :D
I realize you guys have been baiting Lute, and he has swallowed it whole.... so I commend you all on your effort for a job well done
Knowing you for as long as I have I must say that I am shocked that you would make such an accusation.
........... BTW he not only took hook , line and sinker.....he tried to eat the friggen boat. lmao
to JacL -- congrats on the grankid
Thanks bud.
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Finally, somebody put their money where their mouth is! Great time tonight, even though you had to try to ruin it with your self-promoting, chest thumping trash talk!
We took not one single base tonight, but we had some great fun. Jamusta did a number on me in my niki, and reminded me why I should never go into a fight low, heavy, and slow. And why I hate nikis, btw. I never could fly the damned things.
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I did no such thing.... when I passed through the mission I was just taking recon pictures... Scouts honor.... But really the heart was pumping when I saw what look to be 30 nikis co alt and I was alone... I called out the mission then I yelled, "IN!!!!" I had them surrounded...
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very fun fight tonight shubie and BOP's...HORDE killin was a blast...especially that last B-24 mission to 231.
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B24 mission. Lost a TA152, ME262, and a 6 pack to it :lol .
Never could fly anything much more uber than an A6M anyways .
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Originally posted by rshubert
Finally, somebody put their money where their mouth is! Great time tonight, even though you had to try to ruin it with your self-promoting, chest thumping trash talk!
We took not one single base tonight, but we had some great fun. Jamusta did a number on me in my niki, and reminded me why I should never go into a fight low, heavy, and slow. And why I hate nikis, btw. I never could fly the damned things.
Oh come now. Wasn't THAT much trash talking and chest thumping. Friendly ribbing is/should be expected in this game. IIRC when you took that (almost) undefended field LAST monday, you did a fair share of chest thumping and trash talking. Saw a fair amount of ch200 banter last week, and of course your posts on the bbs. Not sure what you meant re. the self-promting chest thumping stuff. IIRC it was a BOP that said the WM's were the gayest sqaud in the game. How's that for being a good sport? To wit, we didn't say a thing. About the worse thing I can recall saying is askin' if THAT was the attack at such and such base. It was over so quick, I wasn't sure it was a BOP mission or not, was over before I could get there. So anyhoo... here's some some well deserved gloating. (all in fun of course)
Originally posted by rshubert
Comfort yourself with the delusion that planning has no effect on the outcome.
How did that planning thing work out for y'a tonight?
Originally posted by rshubert
Well, I planned for 40-50 enemy. I really thought you guys could pull it together. I am genuinely depressed to see that you couldn't get enough cooperation from the rest of your quake-mates to actually put up a fight.
You talked the talk, didn't you? You couldn't walk the walk last night, and here you are back again, talking the talk, and trying to convince me that it didn't happen, or that it doesn't matter to you. Methinks thou doth protest too much!
Where the rubber hits the road, you came up as...less than adequate.
We had far less than 40-50 in the anti-horde group tonight.
Originally posted by rshubert
Many (but not all) of you experten won't engage unless you see something in it for you. Totally selfish, totally self-centered, completely unwilling to cooperate to acheive a goal.
That's what beats you--it's not the numbers, really. IT IS THE SIMPLE FACT THAT WE CAN WORK TOGETHER TO ACHIEVE A GOAL. Learn from some of your fellows, and take it like a man. Quit sniveling. It's unbecoming.
How did we do tonight? IMNSHO the Knit's really did a great job.
Originally posted by rshubert
As for skill, put your money where your mouth is. Let's do this thing again, and this time you participate. I will put up the a-a skills of many of my squadmates, one on one, against yours any day. Not mine, I have piss poor air-to-air skills, through lack of development, since I concentrate on unit tactics. Maybe you can beat me up in a one-on-one fight, but I know where I can get a guy who will take your lunch money and push you down in the mud, figuratively speaking, and all in the name of fun.
Quite a few Knits from tonight are gonna have TONS of xtra lunch money tommorow.
Originally posted by rshubert
We'll be flying bish, and will let YOU know where we will attack from just prior to launch--or whenever the spies (not you, don't get me wrong...) see the mission posted. Target is our choice, as I see it. Is that agreeable? Your tactics, start base, and numbers are your call, and I DON'T WANT TO KNOW. It will make it more interesting, that way.
the last one is what I kept askin' you about via 200/private. your were SUPPOSED to tell me what field you were gonna go for. Unfort. you didn't, BUT that didn't slow us down any. We still were able to stop the hordes quite nicely.
Tonight should give you something to think about. Rolling nearly undefended bases is a far cry from attacking a well defended area. So..where was all the well thought out planning? Again, all in fun, don't go takin' this "personal". Had you succeded in taking your attack fields, I would be eating crow.
back at ya'. You guys are, if anyting, quite persistant.
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You seemed to have forgetten the part where you challenge shubie to the DA.
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Read your last quote from me. Carefully. Very carefully. I stated that we would tell you where we would LAUNCH FROM, not where we would attack. .LAUNCH FROM
This week, I went further, and told you we would be attacking the port area. My mistake, that gave you too much information. Although, considering our takeoff fields, the target fields would have been obvious.
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I challenged the whole WM squad to the DA to fight me, the WM's vs Waffle...
they declined :)
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Originally posted by Waffle BAS
I challenged the whole WM squad to the DA to fight me, the WM's vs Waffle...
they declined :)
Hard to believe Waffle
If anything we are great gangbangers :)
NwBie
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Hmmmm.......
Didn't decline, just didn't think you really meant it Waffle......
NwBie hit it perfect. Not that we don't enjoy 1 v 1. Win or lose had some great fights 1 v 1.
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I always mean what I say.....lol
:)
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never challenged anybody to the DA on ch200 that night. I DID respond to waffles challenge though. And some other guy, who's name I don't recall who threw out an offer to duel, and in the latters case of the guy I don't remember, I hardly took 'em serious, but I did offered to duel after the "smack the horde" was over. Offer still open. I'll be glad to fight 'em.
IIRC I told waffle that I was the only WM needed in the DA vs him.
Also shubie, I guess your right. It was launch. BUT that was obvious, so it was all good.
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Let me clear this thread up real quick. Any time shubie's horde is met with anything near equal numbers it will be annihilated frankly because the pilots who are in Jamusta's camp are generally top notch fliers and very skilled killers. The Shubie horde is made up of less experienced players who aren't very skilled at air to air combat, and it doesn't take a genius to figgure out what will happen when to unequal groups clash. Therefore, Shubie's horde will have to result to drastic tactics to even have a chance to succede in their mission. The AAR's I've read from the other night seem to support this, as they should.
No offence to anyone, it's just the way things are.
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yep... I think you got it... so long as no one bothers to do the boring task of intercepting the skilless horde or... they are sneaky... they can appear to be doing something. If anything like equal numbers oppose them then they will be slaughtered like the mouse weilding building battlers that they are.
It is they that depend on the furballers.... they depend on the furballers to leave em alone.
I think that it would be in good taste if they reciprocated and didn't destroy the FH or CV at a really good fight but I know that despite the facts being out there... they still need the attention of being where the action is... Some of the skilless horde will allways wander off of the milrun and suicide into the FH's or CV to get some much needed and otherwise unatainable attention.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by Stang
Let me clear this thread up real quick. Any time shubie's horde is met with anything near equal numbers it will be annihilated frankly because the pilots who are in Jamusta's camp are generally top notch fliers and very skilled killers. The Shubie horde is made up of less experienced players who aren't very skilled at air to air combat, and it doesn't take a genius to figgure out what will happen when to unequal groups clash. Therefore, Shubie's horde will have to result to drastic tactics to even have a chance to succede in their mission. The AAR's I've read from the other night seem to support this, as they should.
No offence to anyone, it's just the way things are.
Actually, a lot of very good sticks are part of "the horde (tm)". The reason an intercepting force can be so successful is (yeah, I know, shubie is always talking about tactics) that the attackers need to keep their ordnance in order to achieve their goal; survival requires getting rid of the ord. The other night, a lot of enemy fighters intercepted us 10 miles or so out of the target field, which is the ideal spot. And, since numbers were a bit low, we took no dedicated escort--my mistake, it turned out. The nikis could not climb the energy defecit hill, and we got pasted.
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not to mention that none of you can fight anything more lively than an outhouse.
lazs
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Originally posted by rshubert
(yeah, I know, shubie is always talking about tactics)
You are always talking something, but it`s not spelled "tactics".
Far from it. :D
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Originally posted by rshubert
Actually, a lot of very good sticks are part of "the horde (tm)". The reason an intercepting force can be so successful is (yeah, I know, shubie is always talking about tactics) that the attackers need to keep their ordnance in order to achieve their goal; survival requires getting rid of the ord. The other night, a lot of enemy fighters intercepted us 10 miles or so out of the target field, which is the ideal spot. And, since numbers were a bit low, we took no dedicated escort--my mistake, it turned out. The nikis could not climb the energy defecit hill, and we got pasted.
Yeah ... and when they lose their ordinance ... "survival" is usually not an option cause a very large percentage of "the horde (tm)" couldn't find their bellybutton with both hands when forced to fight.
That is why, when faced with opposition, "the horde (tm)" lifts up their skirts and scurries to another part of the map where there is no opposition.
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Well shubie part of using tactics is picking the right equipment for the job. You choose N1k for jabo and took them to 23k or so. To me that was a bad decision. I was in a chog and met your group co alt. I came through your group at 400 or so and in 1 pass took out 3. Not one of you had a chance of catching me. I circled around and got a couple more. Point is there are much better planes for that roll. I would have had taken p47's. Some light some heavy. They have great ammo load out and hold alot more ord. At that alt they begin to really shine in performance.
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But I think we're being a little unfair here. Shubie is organizing a horde with the expressed purpose of being stopped.
Good for him. That's confrontation.
Let the games continue. Sounds like fun. I can't fly until 1030 pacific or I'd love to partake.
Fuggin PM shift.
Good for you Shubie, hope you guys have fun.
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wtg nopoop, that was the way I was reading it too, and was surprised at the immediate flames he got, I don't picture this particular "horde" venacular as a bad thing, -- he said - hey here is something different, we will up many, you try to stop us, lets do something a little different for fun
Gives the peeps who don't have the time or the experience in participating in scenarios to get a little feel for it-and I think with organized semi-events like this in the MA, it will help get more involved in the scenarios and such, I am always surprised more people don't jump into the snapshot events on Wednesdays, they are usually over in 1/2 hour to 45 minutes and give you a different experience in the game
So like nopoop - wtg shubie - great idea
NwBie
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Originally posted by jamusta
Well shubie part of using tactics is picking the right equipment for the job. You choose N1k for jabo and took them to 23k or so. To me that was a bad decision. I was in a chog and met your group co alt. I came through your group at 400 or so and in 1 pass took out 3. Not one of you had a chance of catching me. I circled around and got a couple more. Point is there are much better planes for that roll. I would have had taken p47's. Some light some heavy. They have great ammo load out and hold alot more ord. At that alt they begin to really shine in performance.
Well, I actually would normally use 38s or jugs, but we wanted to mix it up, try something different, and fool you into thinking the nikis were the escort, like last week. Sometimes I outsmart myself.
shubie
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The only reason that Shubie is taking alot of flack is because he spewed so much crap after the first try when in was something like 40 vs 4. After that he was going on about how great the planning was, ignoring the fact that he had numerical superiority and that is what won the day, not some great tactical schema.
Now as he was faced with a more even match up numerically, and didn't even take a base, I think that speaks volumes about his tactics.
Other than that poop, you are right. for organizing a horde with the expressed purpose of being stopped.
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Shubie...... Would you be interested in really learning how to fly a fighter?
My services are available......
No flame stuff at all here. Im serious.
c yas up.... Dave