Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: CurtissP-6EHawk on December 11, 2002, 11:55:21 AM
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The other night you :( upon me driving an M16. I spawned and drove up to that base because there was no one there and I wanted to play around and shoot things in the M16. You guys started spawning and I was just there. I was enguaged with another GV and had a little GV war going. You dove in on me and I shot you down. You then attacked me several more times and you continued to get shot down. Then you call me on private chanel and told me that I was stooping low or something like that by driving a GV instead of flying. Then you kept attacking me and I kept killing you. I didnt really know what to make of that coment but I just blew it off.
Well, last night you stooped to CHUTE SHOOTING and is HIGHLY :( on in the CT. :( on more than anything I know of even vulching just to be vulching. I get frustrated probably just as much as any one else but I sure dont stoop to chute shooting.
Right or wrong, its your choice but I will disagree and say my piece.
BIG :(
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Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
Well, last night you stooped to CHUTE SHOOTING and is HIGHLY :( on in the CT. :( on more than anything I know of even vulching just to be vulching. I get frustrated probably just as much as any one else but I sure the F@#$ dont stoop to chute shooting.(
Um. There may be a difference of opinion here. No one has pointed out to me any reason to bail other than to maximize one's score. One of my few, but pet, peeves is pointmongering. Pointmongering encourages people to become vulching, ack-running, ganging alt-monkey b&zers, as the MA people are finding now with their contest. Granted that one of the goals of MA flying seems to be amassing huge point scores, this is the CT, where rank and score are generally held to be unimportant. So I do what I can to discourage pointmongering, and shooting chutes is one such way. I would be delighted to shoot yours, P6E, if it weren't for the fact that generally it is you shooting me down.
- oldman
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Oldman, but I have to respectfully disagree with you here.
When I fly in the CT one of my goals is not to get killed. I do this not because I want to improve my rank or score but because it makes the game more realistic and immersive for me. I find I am less likely to put myself in a hopeless situation when I play this way. Therefore I bail if my plane is damaged to the point where it is impossible or unlikely that I would be able to fly it home. I do not bail to improve my rank or avoid being shot down. Not saying your way is wrong, just that this is how I play the game.
That being said, I must agree with Hawk that chute shooting is lame IMO. In the grand scheme of things its not that big of a deal....after all this is a game and anybody who pays can play how they wish. However, it just seems inherently wrong to shoot someone who is completely helpless, defenseless and poses absolutely no threat to anybody.
pangea
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oldman this has been some what of a touchy subject. This is the Combat Arena and is suppose to be of a "Combat" atmosphere unlike the "Gaming" that goes on in the MA. I know I have had my moments in the CT but I just assume there be no score other than Kills/Death but no number score.
I have tried to pull myself together here lately and try to fly in the CT with much more respect for my opponents instead of my yacking on ch-all. I am putting my frustrations behind me and enjoying the game.
I am not downing the MA and I am not saying the CT is Superior, but would like to see the CT on more of a professional level of fighting.
Respect
Admiration
Professionalism
Surprised?
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When I fly in the CT one of my goals is not to get killed. I do this not because I want to improve my rank or score but because it makes the game more realistic and immersive for me.
.....and my thoughts as well on everything else Pangea said.
Pangea
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Can someone enlighten me as to when "BnZ" flying became a dweeb tactic? I remember back in my beginnings in WB, BnZ was something most people aspired to be proficient at.
Oh, and one more point - anyone here remember the old adage "Alt is Life"?
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you really think there wasn't alot of chute shooting (when possible) in the airwar of ww2?
do you think they'd admit to it if there were?
you just see your buddy get blow to bits as his plane explodes, you hose the guy that did it, tear up his plane, he bails out.
just you and him in the sky - u just gonna fly by and salute him?
yeah right - that crap was for the movies
it was much harder to replace an experienced pilot than a plane
btw - i don't shoot chutes on a regular basis CT or MA j because there isn't much sport to it and you just didn't blow my rl buddy into shreds :)
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Ditto what pangea said. For me personally, it has nothing to do with the AH score. I was surprised to see oldman shoot my chute a while back since he is one of the CT's better sticks and seems to be a pretty likeable bloke imo.
:D
I don't agree with it but I guess it is his option.
Just don't classify us as scoremongers because we strive to avoid getting killed. It doesn't surprise me at all to see it in the MA. But yeah, shooting chutes is lame in the CT imho.
Regards
Skyfoxx
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:) Hey Chanter,
I know I was the worst about calling names, alt monkeys etc but you are right.
B&Z is not a dweeb tactic just a pain in the bellybutton if your IJN..hehehe
HO is not a dweeb tactic and was used by the pilot with the better gun advantage. Frankly, I barral roll to avoid being hit then do something.
Vulching is not dweebish if you are protecting something
Running/Extending is not dweebish if you dont want to die. I dont! Now that I fly Allied fighters, I run a lot :D
BnZ is not a dweeb tactic but is the easiest and safest tactic to use if you want to stay alive.
Dogfighting is a last resort, sevival odds start to dwindle when you begin to dogfight.
This makes the IJN/A flying very boaring and frustrating. The N1K1 and A6M5 set-up has been good for the IJN/A.
Kinda stupid to try and turn or climb with both N1K1 or a A6M5 while flying the P-47, dont expect me to if I dont think I caint shoot you down.
Respect
Admiration
Professionalism
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you just see your buddy get blow to bits as his plane explodes, you hose the guy that did it, tear up his plane, he bails out.
It doesnt make it right, so why continue to do it here?
Besides, your buddy that just got shot down just gave the Victor a big on the "All" Channel. If he is not pissed, why should you be. In real life, sure maybe, he was doing his job by eliminating the weapon and you just became a murderer.
I was surprised to see oldman shoot my chute a while back since he is one of the CT's better sticks and seems to be a pretty likeable bloke imo.
I for one also became shocked to see oldman admit to enjoy chute shooting. I became to respect oldman becasue he always gave a to his victor instead of yelling at him and calling him names (as I did), however, I frown on the chute shooting and just lost a bit of respect for his ethics game or no game. I can no longer a person that does that.
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Some ppl like to make a name for them selves by doing these kinds of things its there 15 a month no since getting bent about it.
Yes it is thier $15 a month. Its my $15 a month as well, I dont want to be shot in my chute. I know ack does but that is a game bug that I hope gets fixed.
I have herd that WWII Japanese pilots did not bail from their planes and did not have parachutes
Thats why my loved ones are still around and the rediculous beliefs of those flyers caused them to loose many valued and skilled pilots' lives and is why many of our allied pilots returned home. Sad wasnt it?
I guess if I have a pet peve its the runners these ppl no matter if your out of ammo,gas,pilot wound,smoking,ditching,or if I have to chase you all the way back to your base and get you while u land I will shoot you to pecies.
Ego problem? Frustration problem?
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I try to do my best to fly and live and complete my mission and return to base like pangea said it is more immersive and real to try to do so.But on the other hand chute shooting was a real issue in WWII espicially in the pacific theatre and all airforces were involved in this but dont admit it.Although we are only simulating a war/battle it is a very nasty business so to me this chute shooting adds a little more realisim to the game,although I do not participate in it very often.
If someone wants to be pinned a chute shooter then so be it
This brings me to ask this question :
I have herd from some USN flyers that fought in the Pacific Theatre that when they downed Japanese planes they never once saw a pilot bail.Did the Japanese not have chutes?Or were they doing their country/empiror a honer by dieing in battle.
Can someone answer this.
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As far as chute shooting goes, I very seldom do it. Mostly because I know that it really ticks so many folks off, and I really don't get all that much of a thrill out of it. I can't figure out, however, why folks get so mad about it. It doesn't bother me one bit to be shot in my chute.
BTW, generally I almost never bail from Japanese aircraft. They typically didn't do it, so I don't either. It's stupid, I know, but to me its part of reliving history... its just a tad more immersive.
I often ride other country of origin planes into the ground when they are a total loss. Usually because I want to get the sortie over with quickly, and its a bit more thrilling to ride it in.
Anyway, if I bail the next time any of you guys shoot me down, by all means pop my chute if it will give you even the slightest thrill.
eskimo
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OK hawk I deleted that post u responded to didnt sound good
but you answered my question on the pilots bailing out I thought I was right about that.And yes this is sad .
An adding to that is the main reason I dont bail out even though its a game but I like to try to have as much realisim as possible when I fly and if Japanese pilots did not bail nither will I.
Its definetly a ego thing,when have u ever heard me be frustrated.:D
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I'd like to invite anyone who wants to shoot my chute to do so. If it makes the game more fun for you and keeps you flying in the CT then I am more than willing to dangle there while you shoot me. I have not the time, skill or interest to pay much attention to rank and since my longest personal "streak" is only 14 (in a 205 of all things) I don't have much to loose there either.
Besides, I think it is kind of fun to watch the planes zooming on me....
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Um. There may be a difference of opinion here. No one has pointed out to me any reason to bail other than to maximize one's score. One of my few, but pet, peeves is pointmongering. Pointmongering encourages people to become vulching, ack-running, ganging alt-monkey b&zers, as the MA people are finding now with their contest. Granted that one of the goals of MA flying seems to be amassing huge point scores, this is the CT, where rank and score are generally held to be unimportant. So I do what I can to discourage pointmongering, and shooting chutes is one such way. I would be delighted to shoot yours, P6E, if it weren't for the fact that generally it is you shooting me down.
- oldman
Oldman,
I admit it, I pay attention to my score. I know it doesn't mean much, but I get a little kick out of it, so sometimes I intentionally do things that will help it. Big deal.
Pointmongering, however, is not as much of a major motivator as you may suspect.
Why do people bail? The desire to live (or simulated desire).
Vulching is just plain fun. If every vulch-kill only damaged players' scores, I wouldn't hold back, not one tiny bit. It's way more fun than having a good score. Some of the best laughs I've ever had in this game have been during vulching. You really need to try it and see what it's all about.
As far as "ack-running, ganging alt-monkey b&zers, " goes, that's just plain and simple smart fighting strategy.
You can't expect all fights to be fair, 1 v 1, co-alt, co-E, same plane-type engagements. It would be very boring if all fights were turn and burn twisty knife fights. Those are great, but many of us like variety.
My philosophy on fighting is this:
Figure out what advantages you hold over your enemy; (Alt, speed, proximity-to-friendlies, plane-type-performance-charactoristics, proximity to AA, etc.). Use those advantages against your enemy and don't give them up. If you lose your advantage, figure out how to get it back.
The key, is to not give advantages up!
This is what B&Z is all about. You shouldn't use an Energy Fighter against a Angles Fighter unless you have an energy advantage. Controll the fight, egress BEFORE your energy state gets close to equal. Swoop attack and recover your energy. Keep at it till you wear him down or until he screws up.
You can't blame players for flying their planes the way they were designed to be flown.
I think it was last night...
A Hellcat was running away from a pack of co-alt Jap planes, and towards his CV. MY Japanese comrads seemed genuinly mad that he wouldn't turn back and fight. I'm still amazed to hear players complain about such tactics. Turning around would be nothing but stupid. He could have hoped for one good HO, and then he would have been eaten up. They were mad at him for not being stupid.
eskimo
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It's like the HO issues.
Generally considered "unsporting", as the results are often unsatisfactory to both sides, but if one side insists, can't really blame them for having done so.
It's like the current PAC setup. P-38s and P-47Ds are way too fast even for a late-war plane like the N1K2 :D (come to think of it, the only reason the N1K2 is so powerful is because the fights are totally unhistoric in the MA. If people stick to historic tactics utilizing the best strengths, even the N1K2 isn't much up to snuff in the CT :) ), and seeing the guys coming in at 25k really makes one grit teeth and think "oooooh.. if we only had the Ki-84...".. but still, it's a totally legal and super-effective tactic. Can't blame them for what they are doing!
I personally consider chute shooting waste of precious time and ammo, but it happened in real life. However, the times when I consider shooting chutes is like when a vulcher gets shot down and I feel like "take this up your prettythang, salamander!". I guess you can say chute-shooting is a way of minor insult, or reprimandation, slight provocation against your enemies. Can't really say it's wrong to shoot at chutes, but it does bring a frown upon one's face.
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Keyapaha I think I read where the Germans pilots during WWI were refused chutes due to their superiors thinking they would run from a fight rather than fight. I think then it became an ego thing that one would be considered a chicken or something if one did wear a chute. The Japaneese may have been the same way. The chute may have sugested Fear instead of the Bravery.
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I feel the same as alot of you on the chute shooting. Its lame pure and simple. Its not much of a big deal in the MA as in the CT. I like some of you, try to fly the CT with some realism. I fly to live and fight another day. I know chute shooting happened in WW2 and may have been common with some air forces. But since we are not life and death enemies in here, I see no point for anyone to do it. We have enough trouble getting along as it is and adding insult to injury is pretty silly. Shooting a helpless chute is chickenshit. Thats just my opion by the way. Doesnt mean Im right or this is a personal attack on you Oldman. Its just how I feel. I think it shows some repsect for our fellow CT'ers not to do this. If the guys in his chute you've won and he's done. Move on. ( right Andi?:D )
Man, I totally agree with everything Hawk said. That must be one of the seven signs or something. ( j/k:D Hawk )
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Pangea described my reasons for bailing perfectly.
I very rarely check my MA score and never check my CT score.
Keyapaha,
Initially the Japanese pilots didn't take parachutes. Then their commanders ordered them to, so they took them but didn't wear them. Then they were ordered to wear them. At least that is what Saburo Sakai's book led me to believe.
Sakai described one incident in which he nearly bailed out of his A6M. His A6M was hit by a burst of fire from a B-17 and he began to to process of unstrapping so he could bail when he realized his A6M had not caught fire.
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All in the CT
I just thought I would throw my $.02 in on this.
First, I'm kinda speaking from a RL perspective here, as some of you know, I am/was an F-14 pilot. Hopefully transitioning to maritime soon:)
Here's the deal....yeah in WWII, there was chute shooting, saw an interview with an Army Air Pilot (flew mustangs I believe) admit to shooting the chute, hell shooting the guy while he was hanging in the chute, as revenge for seeing some of his buddies shot at after they bailed. In real life it happened/s.....IMO, in the CT, complete BS.
Here's the deal on some other things (while I'm here :D )----
HO's---in RL (especially in today's world of BVR missiles) if you come into a merge and NOT shooting at your enemy, your wrong. Just don't get pissed when the other guys HO"s you first....know your plane and it's armament AND the armament of the plane you are coming into the HO with (pretty easy with our non-RL icon settings)
Fighting from an advantage--in RL, why hell not?!?....do you have a death wish and always enter fights from a disadvantage?? As a fighter pilot you do everything in your power to fight your aircraft from an advantage. So why get pissed your fighting against some dude who took the time to get some altitude advantage? If you want quick furballs, go to the MA.
BnZ tactics/using an aircraft's advantages-- pisses you off also?? Why?? The pilot is using the advantages of his particular aircraft to win.....would you rather him not? RL (again!) simple training example....I would try harder than hell not to enter into a 1 circle knife fight against an F-18 or similar type aircraft in my Tomcat. I will never get pissed at someone who knows how to fight their aircraft to it's fullest potential. To me that is the essence of being a good fighter pilot ( hehe, something I am absolutely not!! :mad:
I know it sucks for the IJN, planeset is just not equal, but the way I look at it is this....if you don't like it, don't play it. Or be like me and if it sucks, just have a few beer's and have some fun! :)
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Originally posted by Dukebro
I know it sucks for the IJN, planeset is just not equal, but the way I look at it is this....if you don't like it, don't play it. Or be like me and if it sucks, just have a few beer's and have some fun! :)
Nah, I'll just bide my time until we get Ki.84s. Then we'll feed your Hellcats everything back, with interest.
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Originally posted by pangea
[BWhen I fly in the CT one of my goals is not to get killed. I do this not because I want to improve my rank or score but because it makes the game more realistic and immersive for me. I find I am less likely to put myself in a hopeless situation when I play this way. Therefore I bail if my plane is damaged to the point where it is impossible or unlikely that I would be able to fly it home. I do not bail to improve my rank or avoid being shot down. Not saying your way is wrong, just that this is how I play the game.
That being said, I must agree with Hawk that chute shooting is lame IMO. In the grand scheme of things its not that big of a deal....after all this is a game and anybody who pays can play how they wish. However, it just seems inherently wrong to shoot someone who is completely helpless, defenseless and poses absolutely no threat to anybody.
pangea [/B]
I could not have said it any better. I usually ride it in instead of bail, though, if I'd be captured.
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P6EHawk
While I usually make comments to other players only on private channel, you have chosen to attack me in a public forum, so I will reply.
I do not shoot chutes!
Your squad chose to attack a field where I was the only defender. The odds were 9 to 1. After shooting you down, you bailed between the field and town where you remained on the ground, choosing not to end your flight. I made two low passes over you but you still did not exit. On the third pass I executed a spy.
It was apparent to me that you were acting as a forward air controller - directing your squad in attacking me. I chose to end that function.
It would be helpful to the forum readers if you included all the facts in your attacks - not just those that favor your position.
You have already discovered that I squelch you, considering you personna non grata. This is will be my only comment to you.
Abatic
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Originally posted by abatic
It was apparent to me that you were acting as a forward air controller - directing your squad in attacking me.
Didnt happen that way bud.
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Originally posted by abatic
P6EHawk
While I usually make comments to other players only on private channel, you have chosen to attack me in a public forum, so I will reply.
I do not shoot chutes!
Your squad chose to attack a field where I was the only defender. The odds were 9 to 1. After shooting you down, you bailed between the field and town where you remained on the ground, choosing not to end your flight. I made two low passes over you but you still did not exit. On the third pass I executed a spy.
It was apparent to me that you were acting as a forward air controller - directing your squad in attacking me. I chose to end that function.
It would be helpful to the forum readers if you included all the facts in your attacks - not just those that favor your position.
You have already discovered that I squelch you, considering you personna non grata. This is will be my only comment to you.
Abatic
in the words of the 70's Show
BURN!! :)
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Now you're in the CT becuase you want more realism right ?
If an enemy pilot bails out over enemy territory and you willingly let him live to fight another day you're colaborating with the enemy .
Remember the pimary objective of warfare is to kill or capture the enemy, his equipment is secondary .
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German pilots in WWI did innovate with the use of parachutes. British superior officers, however, denied their pilots the operational use of parachutes in the mistaken belief that it would make them bail out of aircraft that were still airworthy. I think the French had no official policy, but have not heard of any French pilots using parachutes.
Ernst Udet (second scoring ace, later Luftwaffe chief of staff until his suicide in 1941) is likely the earliest fighter pilot to have bailed in combat. In fall 1918, his DVII collided with a british plane and he jumped, opened his parachute and made it safely to the ground. I think a number of german recon pilots had bailed before that, but I have no references handy.
Amid all the flaming, I thought I would inject some actual content :)
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I don't shoot chutes. It's like kicking a guy when he's down and that's just plain bad manners IMHO. If you need the "win" that badly well then, you have my pity but certainly not my respect.
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In the nightmare, Oldman is Tommy Lee Jones, working in the post office. He suddenly stops, looks at his co-workers, they stare back, then the faces change, the masks are pulled off, ears and heads and bodies assume new and grotesque shape, as they reveal that they are aliens, have been aliens all along, Oldman has been working with creatures from other worlds. He wakes with a howl, bathed in a cold sweat. “Bailers!” he yells in the darkness, “I am surrounded by bailers! My friends are all bailers! Aaaahhhh!”
The next night it is different, the dream has changed, the “Night of the Living Dead” zombies are pushing at the door, Oldman pushes back, but the door is opening, he cannot hold against the supernatural force. “Real Life,” they whisper; “good tactics,” they chuckle. The smell of putrefying flesh overpowers him, and once again he wakes screaming in the dark.
OK, OK, I get it now. I have offended The Immersionists. You bail, not to accumulate points, but to experience the real-life thrill of parachuting. You vulch, not to get easy kills, but to Take the Base. You run to ack, not to save your worthless virtual hides, but to live to fight another day. You cruise in the troposphere, descend to take a quick shot at a squirming target, and climb back into the blue-black edge of space because it is Good Tactics. And yet you are offended when, hanging helpless in your lace harness, the Oldman mercilessly avenges your hapless, often helpless, victims, who, after all, were trying to get into a fight with you instead of avoiding one. It is all very clear now. Very clear.
Hey, it’s OK. Really. This town IS big enough for both of us. I can’t understand why you would want to fight only on your own terms, or run away from danger rather than confronting it, but then you probably can’t understand why I don’t understand. The important thing is that I don’t want to rain on your parade(s), because we’re all in this together in the war to build the CT. The council has spoken. My torch is out. Henceforth I will bite my fingers and stamp my feet, but I won’t shoot at you as you float beneath your frilled parachutes.
Honest.
- Oldman (lies down in corner, sucks thumb):)
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Originally posted by eskimo2
I think it was last night...
A Hellcat was running away from a pack of co-alt Jap planes, and towards his CV. MY Japanese comrads seemed genuinly mad that he wouldn't turn back and fight. I'm still amazed to hear players complain about such tactics. Turning around would be nothing but stupid. He could have hoped for one good HO, and then he would have been eaten up. They were mad at him for not being stupid.
eskimo
I absolutely agree with Eskimo. I’m continually amazed at the endless whining that follows after a pilot demonstrates the good sense to fly his aircraft in a manner that best suits its capabilities.
For example, there is nothing in the current IJN/JAAF plane set that can cope with a “properly” flown P-38L. Utilizing its speed, tremendous zoom climb and rock-steady shooting platform, the Lightning is almost untouchable, save for a pilot blunder. Often, we hear the talk about how easily it compresses. What we don’t hear is how insignificant this really is once you learn how to make it work to your advantage. It’s those little known secrets that give pilots an edge to be exploited. Other areas can be exploited as well. Again, for example, the P-38 can easily outclimb the N1K2. Nonsense, you say! Well, it can! How? Simply make it a shallow, high-speed climb, around 1 to 1.5k/minute. To the dismay of the Niki driver, he finds himself rapidly falling behind. Once again, this is flying to the strengths of your plane, and avoiding those of the enemy aircraft.
So, why would anyone get involved in a turning fight with Zekes or N1K2 type fighters? Why fight the way your enemy fights best? In the MA, I fly the Zero, Ki-61 and N1K2 fairly often. There’s nothing I like more than a P-38 trying to turn fight with me.
Last night, I came across a pair of P-38s turn fighting with a Zero down on the deck. I watched as the P-38s struggled to avoid the Zero, while trying to gain position for a shot. I orbited above the fight for a few minutes waiting to see if it would ever end. Having waited long enough to give the P-38 guys their opportunity, I finally split-essed and smacked down the Zero. In this instance, we have demonstrated both the wrong way and right way to fight Zekes. Fly smart and you'll look like a genius. Fly dumb and, well, you know.
Unfortunately, the Japanese fighters are all slow in comparison to the American iron. Simply stated, there’s no running away from P-38s, Thunderbolts and Hellcats. Even the A-20G is faster on the deck than any of the current Japanese fighters except the N1K2, which is, essentially, a dead heat (about 320-325 mph).
Another tremendous fighter is the F6F Hellcat. It does everything well. Dive acceleration is incredible, and it is extremely durable. Last evening, I attacked Daddog’s Ki-67 formation, shooting down two of them, but losing a flap, three guns and an elevator in the process. Returning to the carrier, I encounter a Niki fighting with another Hellcat. I saw an opportunity to sneak in a snapshot, by zooming up to the fight. There was some risk, as I would find myself dead slow at the top of the climb, but figured I could get away with it if I was careful. So, up I went, firing a 70 degree deflection shot into the Niki, knocking off some pieces. On the verge of a stall, I rolled inverted and headed down, the beat up Niki in hot pursuit blazing away, and knocking off my other flap too! But, what the enemy pilot didn’t realize is that the F6F turns remarkably well, even missing one elevator. I pulled into a left-hand Lufberry, and slowly began to work around on the Niki! Meanwhile, that other Hellcat finished him off when he pulled out of the circle. Apparently, one of those pieces I knocked off the Niki was one of his elevators. A minute later the Niki driver stated that I was lucky that he had a damaged plane. Of course, if I had all 6 guns working, he probably wouldn't have survived my snapshot in the first place.
Stupid Cat Tricks department: Attacked a formation of Ki-67s with Hellcat. Instead of using guns, I salvo’d six 5” rockets. Damned if I didn’t hit all three bombers! :eek: Pangea! He was very good-natured about it. Me, I would have been really pissed! I tried the same stunt again 30 minutes later and missed everything. :rolleyes: So much for skill!
Finally, I managed to crash out a pair of Hellcats, colliding with bombers, simply flying way too aggressively. Well, stupid is as stupid does.....
I’m starting to feel at home in the CT….
My regards,
Widewing
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Well put Widewing:)
Abatic, if thats what happend I dont see a problem shooting a spy. But there seems to be some controversey on the event so im staying neutral on this:D
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LOL Oldman. I don't mind being called an "Immersionist", just don't classify me as a point-mongering score potato. As I said earlier, play the way you want to play cause its really not that big of deal as long as you are not rude or offensive to others. You have always been friendly, respectful and quick to
all in the CT and I respect you for that. So go ahead, shoot chutes if you like. Its just not my way.
Sometimes I get a little irritated when I get HO'd, vulched, ganged, cherry picked or someone runs away (ahem,..er extends), but hey, I've done it too so what the hell. At those times of irritation I repeat over and over to myself....ITS JUST A GAME, ITS JUST A GAME.
pangea
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Your squad chose to attack a field where I was the only defender. The odds were 9 to 1. After shooting you down, you bailed between the field and town where you remained on the ground, choosing not to end your flight. I made two low passes over you but you still did not exit. On the third pass I executed a spy.
WELL... Being the "Shootie" in this case that started all this, let me set a few things straight.
1. We were attacking your field when YOU spawned in the middle of it. So I figure you upping in the middle of an attack, you take your chances no matter the odds.
2. Yes, you shot me down because I was stupid enought to HO with you. Good for you bad for me.
3. After nurseing my plane as far from the field as I could I bailed. My intention being to GET THE HELL OUT OF DODGE, not hang around and "Spy" on you. There were 8 other a/c right capping the field - why the HELL would I need to "Spy" on you? :confused: You did pass over me several times but if you noticed I was running like hell for friendly territory! Finally figured it would take all night to get there and had about given up when you shot me.
4. As for "Chute Shooting" during WW2 - I am sure it happened on everyside. While detestable - that is the nature of war. This is a GAME. Totally different varment.
5. As for "Chute Shooting" in AH - IMO it is as Slash put it, "It's just plain CHICKENSHIT." If you already shot someone down no need to rub it in. You have won. Save ammo, give them a and move on to the next enemy a/c.
For the record, it is one of the squad rules in the 325th FG (and several other squads that I have been in) that behavior of that type WILL NOT be tolerated in the squad and a pilot caught doing it will be grounded and if it persists he will be kicked out of the squad.
The way our squad flies, we try to fly as "realisticly" in every way and to try and land or at least make it back to friendly territory on EVERY sortie as during R/L. So when we bug out after bombing a base, we are useing every advantage that we can get from tactics and our a/c. If you don't fly that way you are just plain flying stupid. Try the MA if you just want to "Furball."
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Originally posted by Oldman731
The council has spoken. My torch is out. Henceforth I will bite my fingers and stamp my feet, but I won’t shoot at you as you float beneath your frilled parachutes.
Honest.
- Oldman (lies down in corner, sucks thumb):)
heh. good thing i can't hear the council. i'll take up the torch and start nailing any chutes i see, even friendly ones - that way when i get killshootered and someone else gets shot down because i was taken out of action, maybe the bailer will feel a little guilt.
:D
if all this other "good tatcics" stuff is for the "war" let us be reminded.... all's fair in love and war.
bailers beware! for one of the 4 horse's bellybutton of the apopletic is coming for you!!!
:D
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Originally posted by Andijg
4. As for "Chute Shooting" during WW2 - I am sure it happened on everyside. While detestable - that is the nature of war. This is a GAME. Totally different varment.
5. As for "Chute Shooting" in AH - IMO it is as Slash put it, "It's just plain CHICKENSHIT." If you already shot someone down no need to rub it in. You have won.
The way our squad flies, we try to fly as "realisticly" in every way and to try and land or at least make it back to friendly territory on EVERY sortie as during R/L.
make up your damn mind!! is it a game or is it memorex?
:confused:
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Originally posted by Andijg
5. As for "Chute Shooting" in AH - IMO it is as Slash put it, "It's just plain CHICKENSHIT." If you already shot someone down no need to rub it in. You have won. Save ammo, give them a and move on to the next enemy a/c.
For the record, it is one of the squad rules in the 325th FG (and several other squads that I have been in) that behavior of that type WILL NOT be tolerated in the squad and a pilot caught doing it will be grounded and if it persists he will be kicked out of the squad.
Uber dorks, You should hook up with this squad,
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60353
Note rule #5 .
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The "Peanut Gallery" has spoken.
:p
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After shooting you down, you bailed between the field and town where you remained on the ground, choosing not to end your flight
You did not shoot me down. It was not I that you stooped so low by chute shooting, it was a squad mate. I made it to a friendly base safe, alive and fired up for the next sortie.
Please do not shoot chutes in the CT.
And the reason I plastered you name all over this board is because I was explaining myself to you on "private" when you ".schelched" me. You squelched me but forgot to use the "." later on when we were on the same side during a time when I was not even around or near you minding my own buisness. SO were you mad at me for driving an M16 or for kicking your butt in it?
Oldman...Thanks
Widwing well put!!
Shane...welcome back!
Last night I decided to stay and dogfight for a while. The 27th Sentai (my former squad) kicked my white arse. I turned, I died. I climb to quick, I died. I flew too low and slow, I died. Thats why I dont do it.
However, I did get into a fight with "weapon?" He blew off my wing tip, I was low and slow so I could not bail. I limped as far as I could before he caught me and vulched me. I know its hard to see that kind of damage but I still called him a name or two then blew it off to "Thats Life". I did the same thing to Abatic on one of those sorties. I dove in a shot off a burst then noticed that his left outboard wing was gone, knowing he was no threat any longer, I stoped shooting and buzzed by letting him do whatever he decided to do. My job was not to kill but to eliminate the weapon! His weapon was no longer a threat :D
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#1 I fully admit to not reading this thread, the whole way... sue me
#2 If I 'm dumb enuff to bail, I prefer to be shot, makes it easier for me to re-up faster :)
#3 If Oldman is having delusionary dreams, I'd really like it if HT would require him to be on some sort of meds before flying again.
#4 Where'd I leave my beer?
declan
oh yeah.. QWAH!!
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Last evening, I attacked Daddog’s Ki-67 formation, shooting down two of them, but losing a flap, three guns and an elevator in the process.
Hold still next time! I will save you having to return to land. ;) Well done!
I don't shoot chutes because I need ALL the ammo I can get for the things that shoot back at me. And like eskimo I know it up sets some so I just dont bother.
Of course others enjoy the "bothering" end of it. ;)
If someone shoots my chute I don't care at all.
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Why does being shot while in a parachute bother people ?
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abatic got me today and he didn't get my chute- did i do something worng? what'd i do- is there another chute? i knew it! you're shooting other chutes now aren't you boo hoo hoo
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Why does being shot while in a parachute bother people
Can you not read plain english?
abatic got me today and he didn't get my chute- did i do something worng
Can you not read as well?
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Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
Can you not read plain english?
Yes I can, so tell me in plain english why it bothers you to be shot while in a chute .
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Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
Can you not read as well?
let me break it down for you......
1. you claim abatic is a chute shooter
2. i was in a chute yesterday, right in front of abatic, right after he shot me down.
3. he didn't shoot my chute.
why? was my chute not plump and tempting? was it not fortified with chutey goodness?
there was a time when 3 or 4 pilots at once would want a crack at my chute, now i can't even get a nibble....
:(
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oh god.....i'm gonna need more popcorn.
p.s. chute shooting is an artform. don't dabble in that which you do not know.
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Actually when abatic shot him he wasn't in a chute, he was on the ground . Not that it matters, a pilot is a target untill he's either a prisoner or dead .
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Well, let me hold your hand and walk you through the replys...
First: When I fly in the CT one of my goals is not to get killed
From Pangea and is my reason.
Second: It was apparent to me that you were acting as a forward air controller - directing your squad in attacking me. I chose to end that function.
It was not me he shot but a squad mate. Abatic thought he was being a foward controller and asured us he was not a chute shooter.
So the next time you read a post, how abouit read the whole damn thing. You would have answered your own questions.
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When I fly in the CT one of my goals is not to get killed
Isn't that everyones goal in any arena ?
You're avoiding the question . You didn't come on the bb to berate abatic for shooting you down . You're here becasue you got pissy when he straffed you on the ground . Your goal is not to get killed, well you did . Who's fault is that ?
Fact- You're here publicly putting him down because he straffed you on the ground .
Why ?
You said it's because one of your goals is not to get killed .
So ? The reason you are so angry about it that you couldn't refrain from this fit on the bb is becasue when you fly in the CT one of your goals is not to get killed ?
Somehow I think that if you're plane had exploded without giving you a chance to bail out it wouldn't have made you as angry, even though your goal in the CT is not to get killed. Now why is that ?
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First:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I fly in the CT one of my goals is not to get killed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Pangea and is my reason.
Hawk,
You are saying that no one should kill you because its not one of YOUR goals? That doesn't make sense. We all play this game so that we can "kill" each other. It’s OK to kill someone when they are in a plane, GV or boat right?
The only difference between killing a guy in his chute and killing him any other time is that he is defenseless and poses no threat in his chute. By not shooting him when he is in his chute; we are only pretending to be chivalrous, we are only pretending to be humane. If you lose the fight and have to bail, what does it matter if you “survive” or “die”? You lost either way. Fair, or not.
In reality, in war, your goal is to eliminate your enemy when he poses the least threat to you and your country, when it will pose the least risk upon yourself. If you could sneak into an enemies’ airbase, in the middle of the night and kill all of their pilots by bombing their barracks while they slept, you would be doing your country a great service, there would be no dishonor in it.
I have read, in many sources, that approximately 80% of all air-to-air kills in WWII were bounces. Pilots didn’t fire warning shots to wake the enemy, to give them a fair chance, they killed while they held the advantage of surprise. This game simulates war, and is not meant to always be fair.
Imagine that you are a Russian fighter pilot in WWII. You’ve been hunting for Erich Hartman for months. He has killed many of your comrades and will probably kill many more.
Then one day you find him. You quickly realize that you are out-matched. But you land a lucky Hail-Mary snap shot, his wing breaks off, and he bails. He opens his chute and you realize that he is floating safely down into his own territory, only to fight you and your comrades another day. If he lives, he will probably shoot down and kill another 100+ of your country’s pilots and planes, maybe even yourself. You’re not going to shoot him in his chute in this situation? If you do, you kill an enemy soldier, its part of your duty. If you don’t, you’re probably sentencing 100 or so of your countrymen to death, not to mention the loss of resources. Then there’s the trickle down effect of how many Russian infantrymen and tankers will be saved by all of the damage that those IL-2s would have been able to inflict on German tanks and troops had Harman lived, to shoot them down.
You would have shot him in his chute, we all would have.
But this is only a game. What each of us does perhaps only simulates in our minds what we would have done had we been pilots in WWII. Clearly we all have different motives for all that we do, and our motives can even change from minute to minute. Some of us, at times, play for immersion. But why do care that someone else has a different view on such a situation at a particular moment? As I have illustrated above, there are times when it is your duty to shoot an enemy pilot in his chute. In this game, there are many who like to watch chutes turn into 100’ fireballs just for a laugh. And then there are players who just get a kick out of watching enemy players go ballistic on channel 1 over something they view as a non-issue. I have to admit, even though I (generally) don’t shoot chutes, I do get a good laugh when players freak-out on channel 1 over being shot in their chutes. It’s just so silly to get upset over this.
It’s just a game.
It’s just a game.
It’s just a game.
eskimo
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Im surprised this is still going but its good reading anyway. I dont think anyone really disputes the real life applications of what you said eskimo. But in the game, some of us look down on chute shooting for reasons already stated. Thats our opinion. If some disagree fine. Nothing we can do about. I guess it is to much to ask for a little mutual respect in here.
BTW Samm, you got to be kidding. No way in hell did you read every post then ask "why does being shot in a chute bother people?".
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No I'm not kidding and nobody has answered my question yet .
They think it's "chickenshit" and bad and dishonorable etc. but nobody yet has answered why they think that .
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Here's what I think, people get pissed off when someone else shoots their guy in a video game because they're taking it personally .
How funny is that ?
If chute shooting bothers you, you really need to get a grip . When you do you will see the humor in it like the rest of us .
This is in reality a "so'n so won't fly the way I want him to" thread .
The way a guy responds to being shot in a chute is revealing .
If he's cool when he's blown to bits he'll get a chuckle out of it like I do.
If he's square he'll get all pissy, and go throw his sand box minatures around .
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Originally posted by Slash27
BTW Samm, you got to be kidding. No way in hell did you read every post then ask "why does being shot in a chute bother people?".
I agree with Samm, no one has given a GOOD explanation as to why not shoot chutes. And remember, this is coming from a non-chute shooter.
As far as "I guess it is to much to ask for a little mutual respect in here. " goes,... remember, mutual respect is a two way street. We ALL interpret this game differently. Why not respect those who chose to shoot chutes? Asking all to "respect" how you (or even many) want to play the game is assuming that your thinking is the right way, when clearly there is no "right" way, because its only a game.
If I thought that it wasn't cool for anyone to shoot me when I flew a C-47 and had a big hissy-fit whenever someone did, how would everyone take that? They'd call me a big silly whiner. Yet when it comes to chutes, the community is divided. Why?
Have you ever wondered why chutes are killable? They don't have to be. HTC could make them impervious to gunfire, but they didn't. The are intentionally made to be killable.
eskimo
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Originally posted by Samm
Fact- You're here publicly putting him down because he straffed you on the ground .
Why ?
You said it's because one of your goals is not to get killed .
i'm just wondering why he didn't .ef as soon as he hit the ground?
if you stand around admiring the sheep... well, i'd shoot 'em on general principle because they're *my* sheep!! avert your gaze!!! :mad:
:D
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Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
Mr Fish, blah de blah de blah blah
My god, you are special!
SOB
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Samm are you a (edited) ?
I DID NOT GET SHOT DOWN AND IT WAS NOT ME IN A CHUTE THAT GOT SHOT ALTHOUGH THIS HAS HAPPENED TO ME MANY TIMES.
IT WAS A SQUAD MATE THAT THIS HAPPENED TO. IF YOU WILL GO BACK AND READ YOU WILL FIND OUT WHO IT WAS THAT THIS HAPPENED TO AND WHY THIS POST SURFACED TO BEGIN WITH.
BEFORE THIS HAPPENED I WAS ACCUSED BY ABATIC OF SOMETHING ELSE AND I COULD NOT DISCUSS THIS WITH HIM BECAUSE HE REFUSED TO TALK TO ME.
This is a game but this is the "Combat Arena" not the Main Arena. Many of us take the CT quit seriously.
I don't have the right to sit here and yell at guys for some of the things I have done myself (but never a chute shooter) but what I can do is tell everyone how WRONG I was and how we, the players, can change the CT for what it should be.
If you want to shoot chutes, fly full throttle all the time, take off out across the grass, kill yourself while making a kami attack in a P-47 , 190 or whatever, then keep your pathetic "gaming" ideas in the MA or some other arenas.
We try to fly the CT with the thoughts of the guys that actually fought during these times. We try to respect one another for each others thoughts but continue to try to change for the better of the ARENA.
Out of respect for you guys, I don't log into the MA and try to get you guys to fly like we do in the CT, and I expect the same from you. Don't log into the CT and bring your MA practices in there.
I do have a mouth on me and I can yell in a split second but that itself is disrespectful and is another reason for this post.
I am trying to change the way I act in here, as well as trying to get folks NOT TO ack as I use to and some times still do.
I am not wishy washy or two faced, just a guy that is trying to play a serious game in a serious arena with other serious players.
I am angry that I can not explain myself in a better or more professional way. I would however, request that you guys (including myself) respect the CT for what it's REGULAR players try to make it.
Samm, Abatic Forgive me for my disrespect, can I earn yours?
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It’s OK to kill someone when they are in a plane, GV or boat right?
NO! I am eliminating the weapon not the person operating it. If he is killed in it, thats war but if he bails, its murder. When his feet hit the ground, his hands better be up or he has become a threat. Pending the threat, he the person may have to be then eliminated. Its a touchy subject I know.
I dont normaly fly in the CT just to shoot something that some one else is in. I think my squad mates can back me up on that statement. Many time I pass up a con that is no threat to me, my squad mates, or our mission objective.
Normally when you see me in a GV its due to my frame rate being shot to toejam. Again, I hope my squad mates can back me up on that statement. When I do decide to screw around in an M16 or Ostwin, I try to choose a field so as to not to bother the other fighters, players etc.
However, If I am opposed where ever I choose to go, I will shoot whatever threatens me..boat, plane GV..NOT THE PERSON....AND IS WHERE I MET ABATIC which has already been explained in this "Thread"
I DO NOT KILL PEOPLE, I DESTROY OBJECTS and WEAPONS of WAR. Shooting a chute is killing a person. If that person climbs back into an airplane and shoots down my brother, he was not killing my brother, he was eliminating the weapon. If he shoots my brothers chute, then its MURDER and God will deal with him directly....if you are a religious person.
Whats the diferance between this game and the real wars?
I dont know, I have never been in a war.
I would rather not be shot in my chute and I hope others change thier minds and do the same. Do not ever give me a and then shoot my chute or anyone elses. You will be a hypocrite. My bail shoud be just as good as my fight.
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Well at least you responded in a calm coherent manner and didn't flip out :D
You seem to be telling people that they should fly the way you want them too while in the CT . For whatever bizarre reason you have this idea that shooting other players in chutes is bad. Me and eskimo have flown in the CT since it's inception, we have no delusions that, that in some way gives us a right to preach what is the right way to fight . As for respect, well I've never met you, and I don't know you outside of AH . The only thing that will cause you to loose respect with your peers are your typed words. Not what or how you shoot at or don't in a silly video game .
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You have a strange Idea that war isn't coercion by murder. It is, and it's not limited to soldiers that why it's so bad . If a german woman was in her house making a sandwich for her husband who was a german locomotive engineer that made her part of the german war effort, and that made her a target . Thats why american pilots straffed every farm house, car, bicyclist, and livestock they came accross . War is hell .
You do realize all those guys running around on the ground in WWII were trying to kill eachother . And all those guys flying around above them were trying to kill eachother also . The pilot was allways the target, the airplane just provided him armor . Some of the best scoring 109 pilots were very good at canopy shots .
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thanks samm but ok, I give up, shoot the toejam out of all chutes, it has no meaning.
Abatic chose to call me, in a round about way, lame for driving a GV.
I guess I was calling him lame for being a chute shooter. That situation has be resolved.
As far as further chute shooting goes, well, there is no point in it and it serves no purpose so If you are a chute shooter, dont expect a from me.
HAWK OUT!
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Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
....dont expect a from me.
gasp!!!! you mean you actually might not give someone a !?
well i'd cry all day if that happened....i might even lock myself in my room and listen to old smiths albums and gaze wistfully at my morissey poster wondering why the world is so mean. :(
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Hi and
to all.
I've read this thread and feel compelled to add my .02. Just remember this is just my opinion.
I respect all chute shooters and non-chute shooters alike. Both aguments for and against have very valid supporting points. One thing that no one has brought up is that shooting a pilot that has bailed is a violation of the Geneva Convention and the UCMJ. So if you are a so called "imerssionist", maybe you're just trying to abide by the laws of war.
For me it's a matter of respect or a way to show a lack of it and that is why I don't. I don't however get upset if some one does it to me. One of the most fun things was running around on the ground after bailing and trying to avoid geting shot by a couple guys that had just shot me down. It was a howl.
Last night i was shot down so I bailed and hit the silk. It was a good fight so I was about to give a when the guy straffed me. I didn't get mad, but since I had already "keyed" my mike for fun I typed "I was gonna , but not to a chute shooter. SO if you want go ahead and shoot my chute, but no for U.
Good flying to all.
Gofast and turn left with GAS racing #99
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oh gee thanks for the enlightenment on war Samm. Seeing as how thats what we are talking about, that was really helpful. Am I now to discount the interviews ive seen and read where pilots said the felt they were killing the machine and not he man?
I already explained why I dont like chute shooting. I also stated that it didnt mean I was right it was just my opinion. What part you didnt understand about it I dont know but thats ok. I didnt post here to change your mind just give my take on the matter. You dont get it, fine. How you pull what people are " really " thinking out of what they post is intresting though. Maybe that comes from you being here since the "inception" and all . Can you tell what im thinking right now?
Well go on and blast away at chutes shaking your head as to why some of us just dont get it. Maybe someday we will see the light and come around to your profund way of thinking. So nice to talk to one of the founding fathers of the CT. to you:rolleyes:
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Note to P6EHawk. You can disregard mrfish's posts. He seems to confused on where to post. mrfish, this is for the COMBAT THEATER. Seeing that you dont fly the CT, you have obviously wandered into the wrong forum. Or your just a handsomehunk who posts to try and provoke a fight on the BBS. So which is it?
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I'm detecting an unfriendly tone here.
Originally posted by Slash27
oh gee thanks for the enlightenment on war Samm. Seeing as how thats what we are talking about, that was really helpful.
Thanks, but I didn't bring it up, it was a reply on the subject.
Am I now to discount the interviews ive seen and read where pilots said the felt they were killing the machine and not he man?[/b]
If you feel like it .
I already explained why I dont like chute shooting. I also stated that it didnt mean I was right it was just my opinion. What part you didnt understand about it I dont know but thats ok. I didnt post here to change your mind just give my take on the matter. You dont get it, fine. How you pull what people are " really " thinking out of what they post is intresting though.[/b]
I never claimed to know what people were thinking, it was a postulation, one which you validated .
We have enough trouble getting along as it is and adding insult to injury is pretty silly. Shooting a helpless chute is chickenshit. Thats just my opion by the way.
From this I gather that you think it is done just to antagonize or insult you ? So you do take it personal ?
Maybe that comes from you being here since the "inception" and all . Can you tell what im thinking right now?
[/b]
No but you seem hostile . If things occuring in a video game are causing you emotional agitation maybe you should re-evaluate your perspective .
Well go on and blast away at chutes shaking your head as to why some of us just dont get it.
To quote an FDB, if it blows up I'll shoot it .
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Originally posted by Slash27
Note to P6EHawk. You can disregard mrfish's posts. He seems to confused on where to post. mrfish, this is for the COMBAT THEATER. Seeing that you dont fly the CT, you have obviously wandered into the wrong forum. Or your just a handsomehunk who posts to try and provoke a fight on the BBS. So which is it?
1. i've been flying in the ct since before there was a ct. if i break every now and then to have a life and not be a nerd then my apologies. i'll spend the next week trying to get all worked up over this GAME.
2. i know that the giant void in your life is fulfilled by thinking that the ct is your own personal snobby little club of salutees but i'd have to encourage you to climb down from your horsey and get over yourself. anyone who pays their fee can play and post as they want.
3. not everyone who flew in the war was a galant knight of the air- some of them were plain rat bastards who just didn't give a damn. consider chute shooters a service in making your experience more realistic.
4. when i fly i aim for the cockpit, i'm not shooting at a machine, i'm shooting at you specifically. i don't want a simulated downing i want a simulated kill. you don't own the ct nor do your dictate how others may experience it.
i post here because when i hear someone really investing their emotions in a ridiculous incident like this and letting it make them post little :( and what not i can't help wanting to slap them back to reality.
don't you just look at the mirror and weep thinking about the fact that you air your chute grievance looking for sympathy- good god man.....take a walk or somehting, you are bone-chillingly pathetic
mockery is my weapon, apparently trivial nagging, crying and snobbery are yours. i'll play in your arena, post in your forum and shoot at whatever i want whether you like it or not so i suggest you find a way to get used ot it.
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ouch ... that's gonna leave a mark
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It sure as hell is not yours either and its starting to smell like dead fish in here. I see it doesn't matter what I try to do it seams wrong. I don't know whether to give up or keep trying.
I have been in AH--CT for only three or four months and I don't recall seeing many who reply here in there not once since I started playing. Hell no this is not my arena, never said it was. But I get sick and Golly-geen tire of you F@#$% panzy bellybutton old farts that come in here just enough to say, Your Wrong and then leave not to be heard from again.
Oh, I think its just a new map thing, once the MA gets the Finn map, they will go back into hibernation. Thank God!:rolleyes:
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oh geez guy- the CT is a fun place with some incredible pilots- EVERYONE - should feel welcome there...... and go there to enjoy the work people put into building those incredible maps.
even newbies who've never tried the historic thing and people with short attention spans who only know the MA. i hate the snobby, whiney, exclusive, elitist attitude that's popped up there.
if you want to be uptight about your gaming experience i'll stop trying to show you how silly you're being- good luck.
;)
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You can add my name to the list of the people who would never shoot chutes.
I play this game with the same standards of behavior that I try to have in real life. No way would I shoot a harmless, defenseless player or pilot in a chute. Even Erich Hartmann.
I'm glad that HTC made allowances for it in the code though. I'm glad we have the freedom of choice. And I'm sure both Santa Claus and St. Peter have a list of the chute-shooters.
:cool:
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2. i know that the giant void in your life is fulfilled by thinking that the ct is your own personal snobby little club of salutees but i'd have to encourage you to climb down from your horsey and get over yourself. anyone who pays their fee can play and post as they want.
boo hoo sniff sniff. That cuts deep. What are all my snobby CT buddies going to think about me now?
4. when i fly i aim for the cockpit, i'm not shooting at a machine, i'm shooting at you specifically. i don't want a simulated downing i want a simulated kill. you don't own the ct nor do your dictate how others may experience it.
ok. where was the post on how you WILL fly in the CT? where did we say we owned it? your good at assumtions arent you.
don't you just look at the mirror and weep thinking about the fact that you air your chute grievance looking for sympathy- good god man.....take a walk or somehting, you are bone-chillingly pathetic
I took a walk and still think youre a handsomehunk, but can i have a hug?
mockery is my weapon, apparently trivial nagging, crying and snobbery are yours. i'll play in your arena, post in your forum and shoot at whatever i want whether you like it or not so i suggest you find a way to get used ot it.
I hate to disagre with you on this one, but it appears that making assumptions an pissing and moaning about us snobby elite is your weapon.
" i hate the snobby, whiney, exclusive, elitist attitude that's popped up there."
I checked the scores for the last 4 CT tours and you havent flown in here. How the hell would you know how whiney us snobs really are?
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Originally posted by Slash27
" i hate the snobby, whiney, exclusive, elitist attitude that's popped up there."
I checked the scores for the last 4 CT tours and you havent flown in here. How the hell would you know how whiney us snobs really are?
what i'm wondering is why us whiney non-snobs got left out?
:mad:
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Originally posted by Slash27
I checked the scores for the last 4 CT tours and you havent flown in here. How the hell would you know how whiney us snobs really are?
well let's see....
"Out of respect for you guys, I don't log into the MA and try to get you guys to fly like we do in the CT, and I expect the same from you. Don't log into the CT and bring your MA practices in there. "
hehe call it a hunch i guess...
This is a game but this is the "Combat Arena" not the Main Arena. Many of us take the CT quit seriously.
well, my-my......the combat arena not like that positively vulgar MA oh i say!
before i took my temporary leave of absence from this game a few months back i remember taking long ju88 flights by myself because no one was ever there in the ct!! i'm glad to see it populated at least now- so many were declaring it's failure except a few dedicated die hards and it was a great idea from the get-go. it's even more relevant now with the type of numbers htc is getting.
don't worry valiant big shots, i'm an easy kill if nothing else- i'll bail and then you can fly by and drop me chocolate and cigarettes and make sure i'm ok
lighten up
ps shane- i havent heard a channel 1 tantrum from you in ages, i say you're losing your edge mac :)
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Nope, Shane's feeling ok. He was flying around CT with a frickin' laser attached to his frickin' 109 tonight. :D
P.S. Slobberdonkey?
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yeah and his brother Fester has the other laser. Fester can make thos things dance and I admire that but his attitude controls me and I shouldnt let it. He is a cheat, a lier and a gamer. Brady has no idea, saying it looks as if he is the best!..lol, how blind.
Calls me names because I bombed him in a GV by telling me this is a GV war "go way", ok, I get a GV about the time he blows up the GV hanger the next go around. Hmmmm, I think ok, thats his right by what I read here in these posts. Then he switches sides untill he can land the eisiest nine and ten kill sorties...ok, his choice. The bigest gamer I know of....ok, he does what he needs to do to win, land cheap kills (kills a kill right?)
Listen, that stuff needs to be in its own arena and is what I have been trying to get at. I dont want guys to play like I do but why have three or four arenas if the same toejam goes on in all of them?
I agree with Shane, the CT is nothing but a Mini-MA. Its not a Combat Arean. Its an MA Jr.
You guys can have your arena, fly the way you fly, have fun, do what you will, it stinks. Your Combat Attitude Stinks
I fly every day for a living and I sure dont need this. If I caint find a realistic type combat arena were guys are mutual about how they fly, then I will join it. Untill then I guess I have to put up with your idiotic crap.
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Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
yeah and his brother Fester has the other laser.
Listen, that stuff needs to be in its own arena and is what I have been trying to get at. I dont want guys to play like I do but why have three or four arenas if the same crap goes on in all of them?
I agree with Shane, the CT is nothing but a Mini-MA. Its not a Combat Arena. Its an MA Jr.
If I caint find a realistic type combat arena were guys are mutual about how they fly, then I will join it.
i dunno, i personally find the 3-4 on 1's get to me sometimes... well everytime, actually. :rolleyes:
i find it amusing to see fester knocking eskimo off #1, tho'. :D
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Originally posted by oboe
You can add my name to the list of the people who would never shoot chutes.
I play this game with the same standards of behavior that I try to have in real life. No way would I shoot a harmless, defenseless player or pilot in a chute. Even Erich Hartmann.
I'm glad that HTC made allowances for it in the code though. I'm glad we have the freedom of choice. And I'm sure both Santa Claus and St. Peter have a list of the chute-shooters.
:cool:
Sorry oboe,
But I am no more impressed by tour chivilrous attitude than by anyone else's. There is a group of players like yourself who think not-shooting chutes sets them apart. The rest of us realize that this is just a game and it matters not if a player IMAGINES that he is sitting high on his horse in his shining armor, or if he lives under a bridge and murders people when they least expect it.
The big difference is that YOU THINK your behavior sets you apart. You judge players by whether or not they play as you do. THAT makes you an elitist.
eskimo
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Originally posted by Shane
i dunno, i personally find the 3-4 on 1's get to me sometimes... well everytime, actually. :rolleyes:
i find it amusing to see fester knocking eskimo off #1, tho'. :D
Shane,
I am happy to see Fester ranked #1.
It means that he is flying in the CT. Every player that flies in the CT helps the overall numbers, but Fester, more than anyone will bring numbers to the CT. People think a lot of him, and if the CT is good enough for him... well then maybe the'll think there's something in it for them as well. Loud mouth and all, I'm happy to see Fester in the CT.
Rank does not mean as much to me as you seem to imagine. I'd be just as happy to not even make the top 10 in here. Playing for score is just something I do every now and then. I pretty much don't take anything (to do with this game) seriously enough to get upset over it.
eskimo
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Being a fighter pilot could be a very brutal job. Make no mistake about it. When I lived in Colorado I knew a P-51 pilot. He flew late in the war and did a lot of ground attack missions. On many occasions he had strafed enemy troops and enemy road columns. He said that he could actually see bodies being blown to bits by his 6 x .50s, even at speed he could see the carnage. After one mission, his crew chief called him over to his plane. He had found a human hand in the air intake of his Mustang.
Eventually he was shot down by ground fire and became a POW. Upon interrogation, the Germans were able to tell HIM about most of his ground attack sorties. They were mostly able to tell him on what dates and where he flew. Apparently they kept track of who did what and recorded plane numbers and as much detail as they could gather. They told him the total number of German soldiers that he had killed. The number was staggering.
Pilots killed people.
eskimo
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Last but not least,
I'm not too big on telling others how to play in the CT.
There are six activities that I do frown on, however:
1. Chanel 1 bad-mouthing. This is the one activity that IS directed at other players and people DO take it personally.
2. Profanity on the VOX.
3. Milk-run map-resets (in the CT). This creates unneeded work for the CMs and can make the arena unplayable for hours if not most of a day.
4. Stick stirring (like when 120 mph, heavy P-47s are flopping around more like butterflies than airplanes).
5. Kill stealing. Shooting at an UNFLYABLE plane that another player shot-up.
6. Cheating/hacking. No idea how often or rare this is, but clearly the worst thing you can do.
eskimo
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I'm taking names. All you chute shooters are on my list.
(of people it's okay to drink beer with)
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Let me ask you this eskimo. Because I dont like to shoot or be shot in a chute, how does that make me an elitist? I just dont care to do it. Why is that such a damn problem? Its just an opinion. I didnt know we were out to impress you so im sorry youve been let down. I dont get why you would take up the assumptions posted by mrfishy but feel free to. Talk about judging people.
I fly both MA and CT. I dont look down my nose at anybody. Id rather not be involved in these flame fests but i just cant help it sometimes, im hostile ( right Samm?). I find it annoying as hell how some of you rant about how much better you are than others, then turn around and label people as "snobby elitists". Some people dont care for chute shooting. Deal with it. No one has made the motion to ban players who dont play by "our" rules, we just stated our opinion. I guess we crossed the line. Silly us.
I confused on why some of you feel the need to post on how it really was in the war, when thats not what we are talking about. Who said they didnt shoot chutes, kill soldiers, kill innocent people and destroy lives? Thats war right? Were playing a video game right?
Ok. I have to go feed my horse and polish my armor. Pistols at dawn mrfishy? Then maybe we can go to the country club for some tea. Oh wait, youre not a member are you?
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Originally posted by Slash27
Let me ask you this eskimo. Because I dont like to shoot or be shot in a chute, how does that make me an elitist? I just dont care to do it. Why is that such a damn problem?
It doesn't make you an elitist at all Slash. It only matters if you publicly ridicule players who do not play your way. I did not mean to imply that all players who do not shoot chutes are all the same (remember, I'm one of them).
eskimo
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Slash, my "reality of war" posts were directed more at P6EHawk and Oboe who appear to look at the lives of fighter pilots through rose colored glasses.
"I play this game with the same standards of behavior that I try to have in real life. No way would I shoot a harmless, defenseless player or pilot in a chute. Even Erich Hartmann. " oboe
"NO! I am eliminating the weapon not the person operating it. If he is killed in it, thats war but if he bails, its murder." P-6Hawk
eskimo
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I do see your point eskimo. Ive just gotten annoyed with this. Those guys dont come off as elitist to me but like I said, I do see your point.
No hard feelings .
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Originally posted by Slash27
I do see your point eskimo. Ive just gotten annoyed with this. Those guys dont come off as elitist to me but like I said, I do see your point.
No hard feelings .
Never had any hard feelings to begin with.
eskimo
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Last but not least,
I'm not too big on telling others how to play in the CT.
There are six activities that I do frown on, however:
1. Chanel 1 bad-mouthing. This is the one activity that IS directed at other players and people DO take it personally.
2. Profanity on the VOX.
3. Milk-run map-resets (in the CT). This creates unneeded work for the CMs and can make the arena unplayable for hours if not most of a day.
4. Stick stirring (like when 120 mph, heavy P-47s are flopping around more like butterflies than airplanes).
5. Kill stealing. Shooting at an UNFLYABLE plane that another player shot-up.6. Cheating/hacking. No idea how often or rare this is, but clearly the worst thing you can do.
Fetser has done nearly all of these and I have seen it all in just a matter of a week, no wonder he is up to #1. I am not going to sit here and tell you he is not a good pilot because he is a good pilot. Fester is two faced, and a hypacrite. Leave me alone this is a GV war, then turn right around and bomb you from a fighter. Leave me alone I am RTB ammo/hurt, then turn right around and chase you down....and is the bigest milk-runner I have ever seen in the CT.
Sure this is a game, all have defended that and stated you have the right to fly it any way you want, sure go ahead you do have that right. I am not trying to tell you how to fly in general, but I would like to see an arena without all the hypacricy and two facing, sure and the bad mouthing (quilty). I would like to see an arena were guys fly with related goals. I have opened my mouth once again with the frustration of the mentality of the way you guys think.
eskimo I dont ever recall seeing you say not one thing bad on open chanel. I dont recall ever seeing you game the game to get to #1 but untill fester explains his actions and mulifaceted personality to me, then I will maintain my extreamly low openion of him. My god, at least Shane will actually talk to you when you get with him and fly 1 vs 1.
I know I have turned this from Abatic to Fester but I dont see folks trying to make Abatic out to be some sort of saint that fester IS NOT. I used this post to initialy get Abatics attention since he would not explain himself and why he yelled at me that first night, then the apearant chute shooting misunderstanding only a night or two later.
Shooting a man holding a weapon, shooting a convoy of guys walking to a fight or resupplying a weapon, thats war those guys are fighting and not surrendering or helpless. Airborn troops that just jumped from a transport are weapons, troops walking down the street with thier hands held high that just killed you brother, father mother, are not weapons. A pilot that just bailed from his plane is not a weapon, if he pulls out his .45 and starts shooting then he is. When he hits the ground, if his hands are not held high, then he just became a weapon. Shooting a bunch of POWs in the back is no Golly-geen different than shooting a bailed pilots chute. There is a difference in eliminating a weapon/threat and down right murder. Ok, this is a game fine, but some of you have already admitted without actually saying it, the murder is ok. That itself is not a game and reflects your real life thoughts!
You disrespect me in this game and I will bad-mouth you, thats my $15 bucks worth.
eskimo, this was not directed at you. I just used your pet peves as an example. Your number 1 frown goes both ways. If you guys insist on having the right to shoot chutes then I will express my right to bad-mouth you on it and other things.
So much or the respect and admiration......watch your back.
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Hawk,
I've known Fester (online) for many years.
Fester is the biggest jerk in this game. Everyone already knows that, even Fester himself.
He's also the best stick in the game.
He also has the biggest ego.
He''s REALLY smart (yet he does the stupidest things at times).
He also has the worst temper (believe it or not, its getting better).
He's a great mission planner and leader.
He's a great wingman and opponent.
He's got a bad mouth (and its getting better too).
He is two faced. He'll piss you off just so that you'll act irrationally. He doesn't mean most of what he says (Yea, I'm guessing here).
He knows how to play the rank game.
Even though he does some unbelievable things, I seriously doubt that he cheats.
Maybe he milk-ran a base, so what... I don't think he reset the map, so what does it matter?
I don't recall seeing him stick stir.
I don't recall seeing him kill steal, I don't think he even seriously cares who gets credit.
eskimo
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Yep, that pretty much sums up Fester. He has serious tard fits now and then and is gone for a day or two and then is back killing everything in sight.
SOB
PS...he doesn't need to kill steal, as anything that gets near the bastard ends up dead in short order.
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Sorry oboe,
But I am no more impressed by tour chivilrous attitude than by anyone else's. There is a group of players like yourself who think not-shooting chutes sets them apart. The rest of us realize that this is just a game and it matters not if a player IMAGINES that he is sitting high on his horse in his shining armor, or if he lives under a bridge and murders people when they least expect it.
The big difference is that YOU THINK your behavior sets you apart. You judge players by whether or not they play as you do. THAT makes you an elitist.
eskimo
Actually, Esk, I think far fewer people practice chute-shooting than do not. Not being a chute shooter doesn't set me apart, as the majority of players don't shoot them. The shooters are the elite ones, behaviorwise.
Do I judge players? I don't know, in my post I said I would never shoot chutes. You're the one who labelled me an elitist, so it seems to me it is you who are making judgements.
I'm glad we have the freedom to choose to do it or not. I think it makes the game more interesting. While I choose to behave with civility and courtesy towards "enemy" players in the game, I don't demand that others do the same.
I don't confuse this game with reality, or with real war. In fact I don't see how anyone one of us could.
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Your right oboe, your comment;
Originally posted by oboe
You can add my name to the list of the people who would never shoot chutes.
I play this game with the same standards of behavior that I try to have in real life. No way would I shoot a harmless, defenseless player or pilot in a chute. Even Erich Hartmann.
I'm glad that HTC made allowances for it in the code though. I'm glad we have the freedom of choice. And I'm sure both Santa Claus and St. Peter have a list of the chute-shooters.
:cool:
was not elitist in nature. Sorry.
I do think that it shows a veiw on history that is tainted at least a few shades of rose, however.
Seriously, if Hartman were floating down in a chute as I described, into his own territory, you would'nt shoot him? Knowing that his survival would probably result in hundreds of deaths of your countrymen, you would let him live?
How about this;
You radio back to your CO (30 miles away) that you shot down Hartman and he's in a chute. He then orders you to kill him. What do you do?
eskimo
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citabria
airbatic
abatic......? hmmmmmm.......:)
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Originally posted by mrfish
citabria
airbatic
abatic......? hmmmmmm.......:)
So your saying that abatic is citabria's dyslexic little brother?
:)
eskimo
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Awwww....man! If i had known so many guys got upset over shooting their chute i would have been doing it to every chute i came across. I'm gonna have to fly in the CT more often to hear the whines over the bb when i strafe their chute.:D
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Your right oboe, your comment;
was not elitist in nature. Sorry.
I do think that it shows a veiw on history that is tainted at least a few shades of rose, however.
Seriously, if Hartman were floating down in a chute as I described, into his own territory, you would'nt shoot him? Knowing that his survival would probably result in hundreds of deaths of your countrymen, you would let him live?
How about this;
You radio back to your CO (30 miles away) that you shot down Hartman and he's in a chute. He then orders you to kill him. What do you do?
eskimo
Apology accepted, thank you. As to the hypothetical situation you put me in, if I said I wouldn't kill him, would you believe me? The truth is I wouldn't know for sure unless I was actually there. I hope I would obey the Geneva Convention and find away to fail my CO's order without obvious outright disobedience, but I can't really prove what I would do.
What about Hartmann himself? He flew constantly against hordes of Russian pilots that just kept coming and coming. And he shot plenty of them down. Did HE ever strafe a pilot in his chute? He certainly would have had cause to.
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I hope I would obey the Geneva Convention
Game or no game, some of you guys have proven to me that you would shoot a chute in real life if you had the chance. May God forgive you. I would find you and do my best to get you a death sentance in court as some vets did during Veitnam. I spit in your face in discust.
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Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
Game or no game, some of you guys have proven to me that you would shoot a chute in real life if you had the chance. May God forgive you. I would find you and do my best to get you a death sentance in court as some vets did during Veitnam. I spit in your face in discust.
Hawk, an aviator coming down over my friendly territory, no way would I shoot him, even if I were told to.
In the Hartman scenario that I described, you bet I would.
And you are saying that you wouldn't kill Hartman in that situation? You gotta be kidding you wouldn't...?
Remember, he lives and many of your comrads die!
What if your not a pilot, your a Russian sniper. Your mission is to sneak into enemy territory, stake out Hartman's airbase, and kill him when he least expected it. Would you do this (assuming that you were brave enough, well trained, and willing to die for your country, etc)?
What's the difference between this and killing him in his chute?
eskimo
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BTW,
I can't cite the sources, but I have read a few accounts where US pilots were ordered to shoot ME-262 pilots who bailed over German territory. Anyone else ever read about this?
eskimo
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Ok, let me see if i understand.
Shoot a chute = you burn in hell
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Originally posted by thrila
Ok, let me see if i understand.
Shoot a chute = you burn in hell
Shoot a virtual chute and you burn in a virtual hell (you just have to watch re-runs of Hee Haw over and over).
eskimo
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She found another and she was gone!
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I thought you just had to smoke a turd for chute shooting?
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What bugs me is people that say they're out of ammo... Now how can they be outta ammo?... I tell ya it's a sign of weakness they need to be shot down on principal.
You know what's embarrising?.. crashing into a chute..
They oughta model chute crashes realisticly, you see this light pick and red blood splatter on the props... pieces of the pilots appendages floating off gently in the breese.
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I'm so giddy with excitement, I can hardly contain myself!
During the night this has become the longest thread by number of replies in the history of the Combat Theater Forum.
There are just so many people to thank.
First, you gentle readers who have contributed such insightful and thought provoking comments, Thank You.
To HiTech who contributed additional hard disk space to house this thread rather than spend money on a new spinner, Thank You.
Of course, I can't forget those intrepid aviators of the 325th Fighter Group.
To the Executive Officer who selflessly continued on rather than .ef his flight, Thank You.
You are the seed from which this thread grew.
To the Operations Officer who, while not being a direct party to the action, came forward to enlighten us with your views of online morality, Thank You.
You planted the seed of this thread and then lovingly nurtured it for all of us.
Some have questioned my lineage.
My middle name is actually Abatic and it has no relation to a cankerous sore or a rag wing airplane.
Which brings me to my final thanks, to my mom Mildred Lapse and my dad Arthur Rate, Thank You.
I would love to attend the celebration at "Spago's", but I'm off to the library to study Nixon's 'Checkers' speech.
To all of you, adieu.
Your servant;
Eddie Abatic Lapse-Rate
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Dont worry about it Eddie, it appears that you have the support of most all the other players even if you did do it "just because" :D
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Originally posted by abatic
Of course, I can't forget those intrepid aviators of the 325th Fighter Group-.--
Everybody that reads this thread should know, Abatic pretty much kicked the whole 325th's butt, all by himself. Like I said in another post, if he can shoot down that many P-47s, and still have ammo to kill chutes, He's the man.
One other thing about Abatic, he's taken all this, and not once mentioned how he kicked our butts. Thats more class than you see in a month of AH threads. I think you 325th guys need to let this thread die.
If somebody gives you a black eye, and you squeak till they give you another one. Learn to shutup before they give you a bloody nose too.:eek:
Abatic.
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:(
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If you facilitate an enemies retreat and withdrawal what does that make you ?
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Well if they are retreating, I must be good. If I allow them to do it with "ease" then I must be Merciful !
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Actually it's called colaborating with the enemy, or as it's know in civilian circles, high treason .
When you let him live to fight another day you are helping the enemy of your country . You've contributed to their efforts in the destruction of your country .
And you think that's better that shooting an enemy soldier that poses no imidiate threat .
Do you see the fallacy of your logic yet ?
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P6E Hawk
Sir;
I would actually rather not post this on open forum, but since we both have put our 'hearts on our sleeve', it might be appropriate. I learned long ago that two people can witness the same event and come away with two different renditions. Let's clear the air from my perspective,
GV Comments: As I recall there were less than 10 people logged on in the CT when I discovered you in an M16 warping to my base. On private channel, I chided you as being too good to waste your time in a gv - in hopes that you would up in a plane. You didn't - your choice and no skin off my nose, but I did squelch you in silent protest. A key bounce output two // and you observed the squelch in the buffer. Hasty on my part since it allowed a perceived wrong to grow unchecked.
Chute Comments: Your squad night was a real blast for me. 9-1 kept me busy! Got shot down several times but I put in some licks too. Most of the action was low level and close in to the base and would continue to be so since my N1K could never chase down your P-47s. When I observed the grounded individual (not really a chute at that point though the icon remains such), I considered it a real threat to me. He had the opportunity to radio information to your squad mates. Whether he did or not, I have no way of knowing. After two passes, I eliminated that threat. I learned that there is no kill message when this happens so I didn't know who it was. No disrespect to the individual was intended. I would do the same thing again in a heartbeat.
BBS Comments: I have run the gamut of emotions on this one. At first seeing the thread I was upset. No one likes seeing their name up in lights in a derogatory way. It then changed to anger when I discovered that you were not even the person I executed. It later gave way to amusement as the thread continued to grow unabated. It's time to put the old horse out to stud imho.
Final Comments: I have read your bio on your squad site. I have reviewed your messages on this BBS. In real life I think we would be friends. Anyone who flies ASEL over the Okefenokee at low level for a living has my respect and admiration. In this simulation I have found you to be a skilled adversary. I think you are mistaken in some of your opinions but that doesn't chafe me at all. The olive branch is extended and I am over and out.
Fair winds and a dewy grass,
Eddie 'Abatic' Lapse-Rate
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wow, this makes me want to fly in the CT even more now!
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Thank you Abatic.
It appears I misunderstood your indirect offer and received it as an insult. Lately I have been running around frustrated and gunshy. I did not start the taunting in AH but I fell into its luar through the frustratins and misunderstandings from the game itself and the other players. I appreciate you digging into and finding who you think I might be in person and not falling into the trap of making a snappy post reply.
You certainly do not need my respect, but now you have it and in my unexpected humble way!
Thank you for your professionalism