Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Vermillion on February 28, 2003, 05:31:21 PM
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I've recently had a problem with my new computer constantly resetting in certain situations. Today, after setting XP so that it doesn't automatically reset the computer on a systems fault, I found out why.
Here is the bluescreen error I'm getting
*** Stop: 0x0000008E (0xc00000005, 0xBF9A2C6B, 0XAA5B1284, 0X000000000)
*** ati2dvag.dll - address BF9A2C6B base at BF99E000, Datestamp 3e2cc23e
I'm running XP Pro, DirectX9.0 and the ATI reference Catalyst 3.1 drivers (it also happens with the 3.0 drivers)
System:
Intel P4 2.8Ghz
Asus P4G8X Deluxe MB (E7502 Chipset)
FIC AT010 RADEON 9700 PRO 128MB DDR 8X AGP OEM
1 Gig Corsair PC2700 DDR RAM (matched set x2 512 Megs)
80 Gig Maxtor HD
Plextor 40/12/40 CDR
Anyone seen this kind of problem?
I guess the next step is to try and back out to the 2.XX series of Catalyst drivers, and if that don't work, try to go back to DX8.2
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I'd try going back to the shop and replace the card.. ;)
If you made a clean install and the hardware is tested first time in this setup, it's more than likely your crashes have nothing to do with drivers. A lot of the hardware sold out these days ship with bugs and errors.
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Verm, I have not had any type of problems with my 9700Pro. I am running Cat 1's at the moment.
Hmmm...but I don't run XP either.
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Going back to the Cat 2.5 drivers didnt help any. Guess I'll try to uninstall DX9 next and see if that helps any
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*groan*
Did some searches, and come up with a few threads that describe the problem. Evidently its something specific to XP and Win2k. This one describes it best.
http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=64
Unfortunately, its a total crapshoot, and general "1000 things that could be wrong with your system" type problem and no easy answers.
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I'll take a guess.
The only element of your system that raised my eyebrow was your choice in rams.
I would have gone with Mushkin or Crucial and would have used 4 256MB sticks instead of 2 512MB sticks.
The lower density rams are more immune to cross-talk due to PCB design. I know people crow about Corsair, but as an engineer, I am not that impressed with them.
The lower layer counts in thier design is enough reason for me to avoid using them.
Just a thought.
I use W2K though and have not had a single problem with my 9700Pro. I forgot what power supply you got. I use an Antec 430W TruPower.
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This is off topic but it seems skuzzy is reading it
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Skuzzy where did you learn to do what you do? On Job? Or specific technical school? I'm interested in this kind of field/work but I don't know where to start.
Thanks
-BM
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Originally posted by Vermillion
*groan*
Did some searches, and come up with a few threads that describe the problem. Evidently its something specific to XP and Win2k. This one describes it best.
http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=64
Unfortunately, its a total crapshoot, and general "1000 things that could be wrong with your system" type problem and no easy answers.
i have the card, and xp pro, no plms whatsoever for me. i'm using the card as it came with the computer... from dell... heh, .
i haven't touched dx9 yet. still on dx8.1
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want good ram for cheap, http://www.excaliberpc.com
Kingston HyperX is just as good and if not better than Corsair XMS and a hell of alot cheaper
PC3000 256MB stick 49.50
512MB stick for $80
I put this in my new 8rda+ and have it on Turbo mem settings and overclocked to 166FSB 1.4ghz XP1600+ running at 1.75ghz with more room to go once I break in the memory
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Long story for me Blkmgc.
Short version:
I wanted to design computers, so went to college and got my EE.
This was back when small computers occupied a good size room.
After a couple of years (almost 10 as I recall), this company called Tandy/Radio Shack were making noises with the TRS80 Model I. I landed a job with them.
During my 10 years there, I did quite a few things. I got fed up with the software engineers once as they took a good hardware design and made it look bad, so I re=wrote the Xenix kernel in assembly. My first major programming job. It was Motorola assembly which is about as simple as it gets.
Kinda got intersted in programming as hardware was moving away from TTL design to doing more and more in single chips, which was not much fun for me.
While doing software work, I managed to get put in charge of the local area network. We had this new thing called DARPANet, and no one knew how to make it work well. I figured it out and got the task of managing it.
My last hardware design was rejected by Tandy, so I shopped it around and found Adaptec. They took it to heart and created the AHA-1540 SCSI Host adapter.
I went ahead and quit Tandy and went to work for Adaptec. They need help to get the software done for the adapter so I persuaded SCO to build native support for the 1540 into the kernel.
Then got tasked with doing all of Adaptec's UNIX drivers. Got to write code at USL, DEC, HP, SCO,..and several other places.
After 6 years, I started my ISP business. Got really back into the network thing and the coding thing.
Being a startup, I had to build my own computers to save a buck.
OY! Basically, everything I know today is a direct result of me needing to know it to get something accomplished. I have been very fortunate in my career to be in some once in a lifetime places.
Want some advice? Find something you like to do, and then find someone that is doing it badly and take thier job away from them, by virtue of accomplishments.
Every step of my career has taken me into places where challenges are high. I thrive in those environments.
Good luck. Don't know if any of that will help.
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I have basically the same system and the same problem. I use Radeon 9700 Pro with Windows XP on a P4 2.8 Ghz with 2 Gig PC800 ECC Ram at 40ns, with 2 120 gig drives in RAID. It all stopped when I replaced the ram. I am almost positive one of my sticks was bad. I'm assuming since the 9700 Pro is AGP and uses system memory in addition to it's on board memory that it hit on the bad ram alot, especially considering with my system I had the highest settings selected (therefore most memory instensive). My guess would be bad ram...
Zazen
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Memtest showed the RAM was clean after the most intensive test ran multiple times. Not a single error. Not to say that it still couldn't be a problem, but that its not just your normal "Bad stick of RAM" situation.
Skuzzy, the power supply is a new Foxcon 450w supply in a Chieftech full tower case.
From searching the net and reading the multiple threads on different forums, two things I've tried at this point, and I'll test today to see if it crashes.
1.) Turn off Fastwrite on Radeons. It increases stability and has no effect on speed.
2.) Trying out a set of "Omega" drivers. Based upon the stock ATI drivers some guy at http://www.omegacorner.com trys to optimize the driver set for actual games, and not benchmarks. I've seen them highly recommend on some of the 3D Card BBS's. I know, its playing with fire, but at this point I don't much care ;) I have a Ghost image of the system from right after I got it up and running in a "barebones" XP setup that I can go back too if I royally screwup.
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Verm have you tested the 9700 in any other pc before this?
I'd try it out on another box if possible or try another displaycard in your box and see if the problems repeat. That way you can rule out hardware malfunctions (they are unpleasantly common these days.)
Oh, another thing.. I've had two accounts where I had similar kind of symptoms on my computer. They were traced to something as unlikely looking as the harddrive!
The hardware created I/O errors which crashed the computer in places that seemed to have nothing to do with hd access.
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My bad ram didn't show up on the standard integrity tests either...But, it was bad.
Zazen
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I've worked on pc's that memtest showed the memory being ok but replacing the memory cured the problem.
des
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Well... new memory is not an option. Without some kind of test showing a problem, they're not going to RMA it for me, and it costs $375 for what I have, and I'm not going to just toss it out and get new memory, after just 30 days. So please no more "just get new memory" suggestions
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Memory and motherboards seem to have the most problems these days. I have seen hard drives cause the kind of problems that Siaf_csf mentioned but that is much more rare.
I was having similar problems with my 9700 pro when I first bought it. Was using an Epox board that up until then had been trouble free with my Geforce 3. Bought a soyo dragon lite and the problem disappeared.
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Another option Verm. If XP has a hard read failure of a sector on the hard driver, it will reboot. No hard drive error will be reported, it will just show the software that crashed.
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Basically the same thing I described above Skuzzy :)
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Oops..sure did Siaf,..misread it the first time.
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Well your explanation clearly shows your stronger technical background. My knowledge is a result of a 20-year hobby so I don't always necessarily know what's causing something exactly, but my experience has taught me to take the proper steps to troubleshoot and root out the problem.
That's why we described the very same thing in laymans (mine) and technical (yours) terms.
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Well...
The stability improved, but the problem never entirely went away.
I ended up deciding to return the FIC card to Newegg.com for a refund and eat the 15% restocking fee. I could have just swapped it for another FIC 9700 Pro OEM card, but I decided to go with a straight Retail ATI 9700 Pro card. Just sick of screwing with it.
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Skuzzy..
Very off topic, and maybe you have no clue but......
Would it demand alot of work and tears to port AH for OSX ?
I know i can get WB3 for OSX and win but that game sux and i have no idea of how much headaches it gives the WB3 designers to support both OS
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Hey Verm, I've been doing a lot of reading on that card lately. It seems that stability problems with that card and certain motherboards aren't uncommon. The most common fix that I've seen is to reduce your agp from 8x to 4x in your bios. You might want to try that out if you still have the problem with the new board.
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Thanks Doug, I'll do that.
I tried to change it back to x4 once from within WinXP in the ATI Control Panel, but it seems it auto detects each time on bootup from the motherboard and was always set at x8 (even after I changed it).
Next time I'll try it from the BIOS.
Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I appreciate it.
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Verm,
I got the same M/B, Ati 9700 pro, and the same problem, its seems that a lot of people are having a nightmare as well:(.
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=33662452
One of the potential solutions like you said is to disable the fast write in the Smartgart tab in the video properties. I have just tried that and it seems a lot more stable.
But I hope someone comes up with the proper answer to it:).
RGJ
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yah RGJ, thats the best thread I've seen yet on the subject. I've tried everything in that thread, except for the new beta BIOS update from 26 February. I'll do that later today.
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I have not as yet purchased the ASUS P4G8X Deluxe Glan,IEEE
1394,SATA,with RJ45, RETAIL.
I am running scared now due to all the information I am reading
here.
My Ram will be 4-126MB-2700 Dimms.
Intel CPU 2.66
Please quell my conserns on this.
Thanks
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XP
p2.8
ati 9700 pro...
haven't had a single problem... yet
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Wlfgang, which motherboard do you have? Is it an E7502 Granite Bay chipset?
S-Eagle, what video card do you have or are you planning on using in this machine? If you want to use a Radeon 9700 Pro, I would suggest a different motherboard, maybe one of the new SiS685 chipsets instead? I'm sure someone here can suggest one. If you don't plan on using a Radeon 9700, then you have no worries that I know about with your chosen motherboard.
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I have a new ATI Radeon 9700 Pro.
I need to make 4 decisions before I build.
1)MoBo
2)CPU P4 2.66
3)Mem Cosair#CMX256A2700C2 or 2700LL
4)Case-KINGWIN KT 436S
I have sound card Audigy 2, DVD,Plexwriter,WD 80gig Caviar
Getting nervous now, must make right choices.
Thanks for the help.
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BTW , I talked with ASUS TECH, they donot know of any problems
with the Radeon 9700 Pro & the P4G8X Deluxe? :confused:
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S-Eagle if you talk to them again, tell them to read this thread
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthr...readid=33662452
RGJ, if your brave you might try the 1.004 Beta Bios (the link is in that BBS thread you posted). I installed it today, and while it increased system stability it didn't remove the problem all together. With stock 3.1 Catalyst drivers in stock configuration, and Fastwrite turned OFF, I am only crashing now about once per hour instead of once every 5-10 minutes. But thats only with 4 hours of use.
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I have the Intel® 850E chipset
P4 2.8
512 MB of Dual Channel PC1066 RDRAM
SB Audigy 2 sound card
DVD
CD-RW
120 gig and 80 gig Hard Drives
etc etc
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Originally posted by Vermillion
Well... new memory is not an option. Without some kind of test showing a problem, they're not going to RMA it for me, and it costs $375 for what I have, and I'm not going to just toss it out and get new memory, after just 30 days. So please no more "just get new memory" suggestions
Well if you figure out that it is the memory you can get 1GB of FASTER AND BETTER memory for $200, go to my link above and check out the PC3000 512MB HyperX for $89.50, sell your memory on ebay or anandtech and maybe make some $$$ for getting better and more stable memory. Corsair is all hype, hell it has all kinds of issues with my 8rda+ board, this Kingston stuff not a single one, AND im overclocking my 1600+ by 400mhz. Just thought I'd give you some options.
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Thanks Verm will give 1004 a try.
Since I turned off fastwrites it has only hang twice, and that was while playing AH offline(trying to get the damn Cougar to work smoother:(), but gave no error on reboot.
Is this also a problem in W2K as well as XP?
RGJ
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Verm,
It seems that my system hanging of late was down to the J/S and pedals locking up AH, so since turning fast write off no crashes or going back to 640x480.
AGP is set to 8x the rest is default settings, hope it helps.
Bios 1003
RGJ
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Verm - i have the same issue still.....
ASUS P4PE
P4 3.06
2 sticks of 512 2700DDR
ATI AIW 9700
I tried every thing there was even the tips memtest and Sandra burn in stuff but still from time to time it pops and BSOD is there. If they ever figure this one out PLEASE PLEASE let me know!
Box
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WOW, the troubles we are having, do you think it may be
the Vid Card with certain MoBo's?
My decion on the MoBo is still in limbo :(
If some one can suggest a MoBo that will work with ATI 9700 Pro
PLEASE SPEAK UP . not Rambus, or AMD.
Mucho Gracias :eek:
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never had a single lockup or problem with these:
I have the Intel® 850E chipset
P4 2.8
ATI 9700 pro
512 MB of Dual Channel PC1066 RDRAM
SB Audigy 2 sound card
DVD
CD-RW
120 gig and 80 gig Hard Drives
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Yah it Wlfgang, it seems to be a problem with the E7502 chipset and the 9700's not being quite compatible.
I got my new retail 9700 Pro card today and just installed it. I set everything back to a "standard" install with Cat 3.1 drivers, and I'm crossing my fingers that it cleans up the problem. I'll let you guys know the results.
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*sigh* :(
This is my last post in this sorry stinking thread (massive frustration buildup).
The new ATI Retail 9700 Pro card that I received and installed today, did not fix the problem. Within 10 minutes, my machine had crashed 3 times.
Basically neither Asus or ATI acknowledge that there is a problem. But those of you who've participated in this thread know its not an isolated incident.
So being totally sick of this I called up Customer Support at Newegg.com and described my problem. Unfortunately, the Asus P4G8X Deluxe MB is suppose to be "REPAIR/EXCHANGE EXACT ITEM ONLY", with no refunds given on this product. But after talking politely to the Customer Support tech, they gave me a complete refund RMA for the Motherboard (ie not only did they refund my money, but they didn't stick me for a 15% restocking fee like I expected). BIG THUMBS UP !! to their Customer Support. Thats really rare in this day and age of internet business'.
So looking for a replacement, I had been reading about the SiS 655 chipset motherboards. Basically they're the exact equivalent to the E7502 boards in features such as Dual Channel memory, x8 AGP, gigabyte lan, and others, just a different chipset manufacturer. They're a little hard to find right now, having just been released (just like the Granite Bay boards).
Of the 3 SiS 655 MB's reviewed at Anandtech, the only one I could find in stock anywhere was the MSI 655 Max at Mwave.com. I would have preferred to do business again with Newegg but they don't have any of the 655 boards in stock and no timetable for delivery. I only have 14 days to return this Asus board, and I need a replacement in hand before I return it. But the MSI board got a good review and I needed it right away, so I bought it. Hopefully it will fix my problems.
I hope all you other guys get yours fixed too. Good Luck !!
A word of wisdom to anyone thinking of buying an Intel Granite Bay Motherboard and using a Radeon 9700 Pro .... Don't !
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Been following the Granite Bay problems with the 9700Pro.
It's really odd. Sorry to see you go through all that Verm. Wish I knew where the problem lied.
You did try setting the AGP bus to 4X, didn't you? If that did not correct it, then I would lean towards something bizarre in the E7502 chipset.
Shame. The E7500 chipset was simply outstanding.
Looking forward to hearing your luck with the SiS motherboard Verm.
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Verm,
Good news on that they changed the M/B for you, I hope everything goes ok on the new board. But since I turned fastwrites off, I have not had a crash that is down to chipsets, and hoping it stays that way:).
RGJ
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Yah Skuzzy I tried literally everything suggested in those threads. If anything, on my computer the switch to x4 AGP made it even more crash prone.
I'll let you know how the SiS655 MB goes.
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sorry to hear that Verm.. yeah, let us know how it works out.
I know you're dieing to use that bad mofo video card.
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Verm,
P4G8X
Antec 1080 Case
430 Tru PS
P4 2.4 Gig
1Gig Kingston DDR
Audigy2
2 WD 80Gig 8mb cache drives
Toshiba DVD/CD RW
I had the same issues with the ATI 9700 pro, went back to Catylst 2.2 drivers ( came with the card), increased my voltage to 1.6v to my AGP via bios, and disabled fastwrites.
System seems to be stable ( for the last week anyway ). I also found this post:
http://www.asusboards.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34558
Which I'll do next if the issue pops up again.
It's my understanding that ithere is a voltage/current issue with the AGP port. Any variation in current or voltage settings on the "edge" creates the problem. Those with PS around the 300/350 range are going to have current issues, and those with adequate supplies could have voltage issues. It's not just Granite bay Mobo's either. The Via chip set boys are have a bad time of it also.
I'm very comfortable with my system and power supply, but was surprized to find the voltage to my AGP port to be at 1.46v ( Asus probe).
Good luck with the new system. I'm sorry I didn't check the board sooner ( on a leave absence from AH ).
Scot
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Thanks Scot !
I'll read that. I've seen in some places that all the new x8 AGP motherboards are having this problem.
I returned the Asus P4G8X motherboard, as it was SO unstable that I didn't see any hope for it. Literally crashing every 5 mins or so towards the end.
I put in a MSI 655 Max Motherboard (SiS 655 chipset) on Thursday, and so far so good. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, and I'll relate my experiences when I get some time later in the week. And I even saw a slight performance increase over the Granite Bay board.
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Best of luck! The system you've designed is sweet and you can't go wrong with that mobo!
Scot
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I am in the throws of purchasing that SiS655 chipset,would
appreciate your comments on this project.
We are all watching and appreciate your comments.
Good luck.
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Damn boys thanks for the info! Now i can go down to North Carolina and reset up my Dad's system for him (i live near Detroit)
LOL
Well at least i know where to send him and the Steve dude has every thing writen in stone!
Box
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FYI:
Nforce2 Asus A7N8X Deluxe, running an ATI Radeon 9700 Pro with Cat. 3.1 drivers/DX9/WinXP Pro with no problems whatsoever. The finest graphics card i've ever owned.
Cabby