Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Crash Orange on March 22, 2016, 02:00:46 PM
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Not directly AH related but I'm hoping someone can help since I'm upgrading specifically for this game.
I installed my new video card and the computer won't boot. I get the very first screen where it says "Press the ESC key for startup menu", a few beeps, then nothing, it just stays on that screen. I unplugged the power supply before switching the cards out, the new card was seated correctly in the slot, the power cord to the card was hooked up, the power supply is more than adequate for the card, the monitor was connected, and I tried it both before and after installing the new driver and got the same result. The old card is a GT 520 and the new one is a GTX 960. It still works fine if I put the old card back in. Any idea what the problem might be?
DXDiag with old card attached.
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Typically HP computers only have enough power supply to drive what is in the stock system. What makes you think the power supply is big enough?
A 960 needs about 120W, to be comfortable.
A 520 needs about 100W, to be comfortable.
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You may not like this and I hope that I'm wrong:
from http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=c03188873 (http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=c03188873)
Must select one of the following options:
Intel Graphics Media Accelerator HD Integrated Graphics
GeForce 405 (512 MB)
GeForce GT 520 (1 GB)
GeForce GT 530 (2 GB)
Radeon HD 6450 (512 MB)
Radeon HD 6450 (1 GB)
Radeon HD 7350 (512 MB)
Radeon HD 7450 (1 GB)
Radeon HD 7570 (2 GB)
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Typically HP computers only have enough power supply to drive what is in the stock system. What makes you think the power supply is big enough?
A 960 needs about 120W, to be comfortable.
A 520 needs about 100W, to be comfortable.
I upgraded to a 480W power supply. The recommended minimum is 400W.
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You may not like this and I hope that I'm wrong:
Pretty sure those are the options to include in a system you buy from them, not every compatible upgrade.
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The symptoms you are describing, assuming everything is connected correctly, are exactly what they would be for not enough power.
480W seems a bit small to me, but it also depends on how that 480W is apportioned between all the voltages supplied. It would not be beyond the realm of possibilities to get a bigger supply but end up with the same, or less, power to the extra PCI power plugs.
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This is the power supply I got: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817170018
Any suggestions for how to proceed?
Thanks very much for responding.
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Isn't it common for bootup beeps to be a code indicating an error condition? I.E. two short beeps vs one long or one long and one short - that kind of thing.
Can you search beep codes for your motherboard model?
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Pretty sure those are the options to include in a system you buy from them, not every compatible upgrade.
Not all of the hardware options "must select", so I suppose there's a reason for that. I've learned the hard way that HP can have a white list or some other restrictions coded in the bios.
[Edit]According to the last post on page one in http://www.hammerfistclan.com/forum/f60/graphics-card-installation-problem-639848/ (http://www.hammerfistclan.com/forum/f60/graphics-card-installation-problem-639848/) I was right.
---this motherboard is incompatible with all gtx7xx cards because of bios---
That naturally applies to more modern cards, too.
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It would be like them to do that. HP has been brilliant in creating products they can easily obsolete.
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Yes, we were all bitten with one such problem just recently. HP had hardcoded their BIOS in such a way that standard drivers would not function, period. In fact, I believe that was a CPU issue.
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:bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
Thanks again for the help. So, where does this leave me? New motherboard or whole new system?
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I ran into this once on one of my machines.
I don't know if this is what is going on with yours or not, but it is quick enough to try.
Try this:
Shut off your computer and unplug power cord.
Press your front power-on button and keep it held in for 5 seconds.
Take out your new graphics card and install your old graphics card.
Boot your machine.
Shut it down.
Unplug your power cord.
Press your front power-on button and keep it held in for 5 seconds.
Take out your old graphics card and install your new graphics card.
Boot your machine.
If that doesn't work, 2nd thing to try.
Look up on Web how to clear your CMOS/reset your BIOS for the computer you have.
Shut down your computer.
Unplug power cord.
Hold in front power-on button for 5 seconds.
Clear your CMOS/reset BIOS.
Boot your machine.
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By the way, clearing CMOS on most motherboards is to do either of these things. Use a method like this -- not one by selecting some reset from your screen while in the BIOS settings.
1. Locate jumper near the battery on your motherboard labeled "CLEAR CMOS, CLEAR, CLR CMOS, PASSWORD, or CLR PWD".
2. Set the jumper to "CLEAR".
3. Power on your computer.
4. Power down your computer.
5. Remove power plug.
6. Hold in front power-on button for 5 seconds.
7. Put the jumper back to where it was before you moved it.
or
1. Remove your motherboard's battery.
2. Wait 10 seconds.
3. Reinstall battery.
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Also, always observe proper static precautions.
When working on your computers, don't be moving your feet around (or moving knees around if you are kneeling, or sliding your butt around if you are sitting).
Touch non-painted metal parts of the case with your hands before you touch anything inside the computer.
If you can manage it, while you are touching anything inside the computer, keep part of your hand (or 2nd best your other hand) touching a non-painted metal part of the case.
Do this also with graphics cards and other electronic components you might be handling -- touch a bare metal part on the device before moving it. Don't handle it by any of the parts that plug into the slots on the motherboard. Touch only the bracket and edges of the circuit board.
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No joy on the power button and the CMOS reset (I took the battery out).
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Arg!
There is the possibility that the card is bad (unless you tried it in another system, and it works fine).
Every once in a while, I do order new stuff that doesn't work upon delivery. I send it back for a replacement, and that works.
Did you try the card in another machine?
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Brooke, I appreciate your efforts, they're sound advice and good troubleshooting practice in "normal" cases. However it's pretty much confirmed that this one is a HP bios issue. :salute
Thanks again for the help. So, where does this leave me? New motherboard or whole new system?
A new motherboard should be enough. Just get one that makes use of your other components i.e. same type of memory and same processor slot. And of course fits into your case. Even a second hand would do fine, they don't wear out in a couple of years. Just don't get another HP labeled
You'll have to reinstall your Win7 after that, using the license code on the sticker on the case. If you got an installation disk it won't necessarily work since it can't verify your computer being a HP. In such case download the 64 bit Win7 from Microsoft:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows7 (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows7). Actually you should do it before you tear your computer apart! You'll also need motherboard drivers which you can download from the manufacturer's site.
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Brooke, I appreciate your efforts, they're sound advice and good troubleshooting practice in "normal" cases. However it's pretty much confirmed that this one is a HP bios issue. :salute
A new motherboard should be enough. Just get one that makes use of your other components i.e. same type of memory and same processor slot. And of course fits into your case. Even a second hand would do fine, they don't wear out in a couple of years. Just don't get another HP labeled
You'll have to reinstall your Win7 after that, using the license code on the sticker on the case. If you got an installation disk it won't necessarily work since it can't verify your computer being a HP. In such case download the 64 bit Win7 from Microsoft:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows7 (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows7). Actually you should do it before you tear your computer apart! You'll also need motherboard drivers which you can download from the manufacturer's site.
yup i can confirm Bizmans need for new motherboard . having upgraded an hp myself apparently your model wont accept the video card you have . I dont know if you checked the HP site but here are the results . if you scroll down to hardware options and check it pretty much gives you all the current options.
http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=c03188873#N10041
dont know why HP always seems to put the lowest grade components possible but thats why i wont buy another .
1 thing to remember if you plan on using the same cpu processor make sure you get the correct cpu socket.
good luck... :salute
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After looking around it seems that the older motherboards like yours cant run the newer video cards without changing a setting in the bios. Under the security tab in the HP bios there should be an option to check to allow use legacy bios, they also said to disable secure boot as well . People have done that and have been able to get their video cards to work.
Also some video cards will have a switch on them that will change the bios from uefi bios to legacy bios, not sure if the 960 has that option or not.
It is prolly a long shot but i figured id throw it out there just in case it works for you.
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After looking around it seems that the older motherboards like yours cant run the newer video cards without changing a setting in the bios. Under the security tab in the HP bios there should be an option to check to allow use legacy bios, they also said to disable secure boot as well . People have done that and have been able to get their video cards to work.
Also some video cards will have a switch on them that will change the bios from uefi bios to legacy bios, not sure if the 960 has that option or not.
It is prolly a long shot but i figured id throw it out there just in case it works for you.
I think it is already using legacy BIOS - in the boot options there are no devices listed under UEFI and my hard drive is listed under legacy, so that means it's booting using legacy, right?
After a great deal of further digging it looks like that's the problem, the card expects UEFI, the MB is legacy, and HP won't update its BIOS to make them play nice with each other.
This card does not have that switch. Apparently there are only a few that do (plus some that have a switch for two different UEFI modes which wouldn't help me) and they generally aren't listed in product specs. The only ones I've found for sure are MSI GTX 750 2GBs. Not sure how they would run AH3, any input on that would be greatly appreciated, as are all the responses so far.
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GTX 750 is a lower end card, weaker than the GTX 660 HiTech uses in his development system. It would run AH3 with quite a lot of features disabled.
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Hmm. apparently some of the Sapphire cards also support legacy BIOS and might work with this system. What Radeon chipset would give decent performance without breaking the bank? With an emphasis on not breaking the bank.
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Hmm. apparently some of the Sapphire cards also support legacy BIOS and might work with this system. What Radeon chipset would give decent performance without breaking the bank? With an emphasis on not breaking the bank.
That would be a tough one, Radeons tend to use much more power than their GeForce equivalents these days. For a well performing Radeon you should most likely get a new power supply, too. Since you already have a pretty good new video card, a suitable motherboard would be the most stable solution.
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Hmm. apparently some of the Sapphire cards also support legacy BIOS and might work with this system. What Radeon chipset would give decent performance without breaking the bank? With an emphasis on not breaking the bank.
I'm using $130-$150 nVidia cards (GTX 750 Ti and a GTX 950) on approx. $500 Dell machines and getting 55-60 fps in AH3 beta. To me, that is acceptable performance for a low-budget choice.
Comparable Radeons are likely also in the $130-$150 range on Newegg, maybe these (according to Tom's hierarchy chart):
HD 7870, R9 270, R9 270X, R7 370
HD 4870 X2, 6970, 7850, R7 265
HD 4850 X2, 5870, 6950, R7 260X
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That would be a tough one, Radeons tend to use much more power than their GeForce equivalents these days. For a well performing Radeon you should most likely get a new power supply, too. Since you already have a pretty good new video card, a suitable motherboard would be the most stable solution.
I was hoping to be able to return the one I got. A new motherboard is a fair amount of additional expense and a lot of additional trouble I'd prefer to avoid if possible. An upgraded power supply is a lot less of both.
How about the R9 380? That looks to be similar to the 960 in performance and price, and Sapphire makes one that's legacy compatible.
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Hi Crash Orange,
If you're really looking at a Radeon vid card to use I would not get 1 lower than the 7000 series, but especially lower than the "R" series vid cards due to the new Radeon Crimson series drivers.
These driver's features & coding are optimized to get the best out of the "R" series & up AMD GPU's, especially the R9 series GPU's due to GPU hardware design advancements.
Any GPU series less than the 7000 series GPU's (absolute floor for Radeon Crimson drivers) will be using a more or less basic AMD driver that won't have all the goodies of the full Crimson driver stack coded in them.
Check the vid card compatibility charts on AMD's web site for these Crimson drivers & you will see this.
Hope this helps you out.
:salute
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I was hoping to be able to return the one I got. A new motherboard is a fair amount of additional expense and a lot of additional trouble I'd prefer to avoid if possible. An upgraded power supply is a lot less of both.
How about the R9 380? That looks to be similar to the 960 in performance and price, and Sapphire makes one that's legacy compatible.
I wouldn't trust anything that is not on the HP approved list (http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=c03188873#N10041) posted already a couple of times. At least I'd let someone else (=the local repair shop) do the the testing at their expense in case something goes wrong.
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I wouldn't trust anything that is not on the HP approved list (http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=c03188873#N10041) posted already a couple of times. At least I'd let someone else (=the local repair shop) do the the testing at their expense in case something goes wrong.
This is confusing to me - that list appears to be a list of available options you could select when buying that computer from them, not a comprehensive list of aftermarket upgrades that are compatible with the system. I understand that anything on the list is not guaranteed to work, but not being on the list shouldn't mean it won't be compatible, just that HP didn't offer it as part of the package they sold for that computer.
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Truth to be said, I'm not sure if you're right or not. Anyway, I'd at least ask HP as that list has been referred to as the only compatible ones by people who give the expression of knowing.
HP has done such things before, putting a white list into bios for a certain component. The last time I saw this was with an older laptop I installed Linux Mint to. Everything else was fine but I couldn't get the wifi working because there were no Linux drivers for that brand/model. So? I have a bunch of laptop wifi cards lying around... But: The laptop wouldn't boot, it just said there's an incompatible part and asked to remove it. Fortunately I could find a hacked version of the latest bios where the white list had been removed. I've seen the same with processors, too. Can't remember other components, but then again I haven't modified too many HP computers.
As for the costs, getting a second hand motherboard and selling your current one might only cost you the effort. Plus the reinstalling of Windows.
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I would love to share more information about this, but I believe it has issues with the BBS rules here.
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GTX 750 is a lower end card, weaker than the GTX 660 HiTech uses in his development system. It would run AH3 with quite a lot of features disabled.
I use a 750 and stay around the mid 50s FPS when others and clouds are around. This is with the environment slider at 0 and everything else is turned on.
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I would love to ask HP about it, but apparently it's $60 for them to pick up the phone. I sent an e-mail, we'll see if they respond. This is not making want to buy any of their products in the future.
The Windows reinstall is what's making me nervous about a new motherboard. AFAICT I'll have to re-purchase Windows because it won't recognize the new mobo as an HP machine.
Btw, is there any reason for that whitelist other than to shaft the customers by making them buy a new system rather than be able to upgrade?
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Hopefully HP will answer. They also have a forum where you could ask about things but I don't know how fast you'd get an answer there.
As for reinstalling Windows, you won't need anything else than the code on the license sticker on your case and a generic Windows 7 installation media, either a DVD or a USB stick, which you can download from the link I provided earlier. You can also copy or lend such a disk from anyone, that's fully legal. Using a generic media to reinstall Windows to a <brand> computer is common practice in service shops because that way you don't have to install and then uninstall all the unnecessary programs that only waste your computing power. I've done it numerous times and it's very straightforward.
If you ask HP about their whitelist policy, they'd probably say that it's for ensuring compatibility. Truth is they want people to buy new computers instead of upgrading.
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I would look threw all your bios settings and make sure you have legacy bios checked and disable secure boot checked . Lmk if you can find those settings in your bios under the security tab. Next there is a bios update for your board from HP that might show these settings if they are not available in your current bios . http://support.hp.com/us-en/drivers/selfservice/hp-pavilion-p7-1200-desktop-pc-series/5187022/model/5193525#Z7_3054ICK0K8UDA0AQC11TA930O2 (http://support.hp.com/us-en/drivers/selfservice/hp-pavilion-p7-1200-desktop-pc-series/5187022/model/5193525#Z7_3054ICK0K8UDA0AQC11TA930O2)
Also here is a list of MSI cards that have a hybrid bios with a legacy support bios switch
http://event.msi.com/2014/vga/Hybrid_BIOS/ (http://event.msi.com/2014/vga/Hybrid_BIOS/)
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I'll see if HP will answer but I'm not hopeful - they don't seem interested in the most minimal support for anything that's not under warranty. I did post a question on the forum. I also contacted Sapphire, but I expect they'll say it is compatible whether thy have actually tried it or not.
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A friend just asked about getting a new video card to his HP. I did some research and stumbled upon this: http://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c03653200 (http://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c03653200)
Although the document says it only applies to Win 8 and 10, it might help you too depending on your motherboard and bios.
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I have to say, a computer manufacturer choosing to use this "secure boot" technology seems to be the stupidest decision I've seen in some time.
I used to think that HP made good hardware but nearly criminally bad software (where every decade or two, I try out HP products only to relearn this lesson).
Now, I think I have to reduce my estimate of their areas of competence.
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A friend just asked about getting a new video card to his HP. I did some research and stumbled upon this: http://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c03653200 (http://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c03653200)
Although the document says it only applies to Win 8 and 10, it might help you too depending on your motherboard and bios.
I saw the same Doc when i was looking around for Crash.... i think if he can configure his bios with secure boot disabled and legacy bios enabled , he might have a decent chance of getting it up and running .
I agree Brooke I used to like some of Hp's DV series laptops back in the day .....until i had customers with overheating issues. Seeing the way they handled that in the beginning was the end of my HP product use .
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I saw the same Doc when i was looking around for Crash.... i think if he can configure his bios with secure boot disabled and legacy bios enabled , he might have a decent chance of getting it up and running .
I agree Brooke I used to like some of Hp's DV series laptops back in the day .....until i had customers with overheating issues. Seeing the way they handled that in the beginning was the end of my HP product use .
I believe secure boot is a Windows 8 thing - I'm running 7 and it doesn't appear in my options under the security or any other tab.
Sapphire says the R9 380 with the switch should work but they can't swear it will. Others have gotten that card to work with the HP Chicago motherboard which has the same issues with the GT 8xx and 9xx cards. HP forum guru says there is no whitelist and the bios incompatibility is the reason the 960 won't work. I ordered the card so we'll see. Keep your fingers crossed, but if it doesn't work I can still replace the mobo.
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Good luck, Loki!
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I have an HP Envy computer and had problems adding a new video card. I had to go into the bios and that the internal intel video was turned off.
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Aaaaand she works! :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
Sapphire Nitro Radeon R9 380 4GB with a physical switch to toggle UEFI/legacy BIOS. Sapphire guy said some of their cards that are listed as dual BIOS support have switches and some have to have the BIOS flashed and the latter won't work with this motherboard. New, new power supply is 600W so there won't be any problems there.
I'm still playing with settings but so far it looks like a frame rate in the high 50s offline in the Beta with all settings maxed out.
Thanks so much for all the help and advice!
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Sweet! :aok
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Aaaaand she works! :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
Sapphire Nitro Radeon R9 380 4GB with a physical switch to toggle UEFI/legacy BIOS. Sapphire guy said some of their cards that are listed as dual BIOS support have switches and some have to have the BIOS flashed and the latter won't work with this motherboard. New, new power supply is 600W so there won't be any problems there.
I'm still playing with settings but so far it looks like a frame rate in the high 50s offline in the Beta with all settings maxed out.
Thanks so much for all the help and advice!
If I may ask, what version AMD Crimson driver did you use?
Glad you got it all sorted out..............
:salute
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:) :salute :cheers:
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If I may ask, what version AMD Crimson driver did you use?
Glad you got it all sorted out..............
:salute
I downloaded the most recent one for Win 7 64-bit from their site.
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I downloaded the most recent one for Win 7 64-bit from their site.
Ah OK.
:salute