Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: STXAce8 on July 28, 2011, 12:55:47 PM
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Here are two profiles of G-2s:
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af159/Ace891234/bf109g2herzas.jpg)
This one is JG300
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af159/Ace891234/00_JG300.jpg)
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Here are two profiles of G-2s:
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af159/Ace891234/bf109g2herzas.jpg)
This one is JG300
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af159/Ace891234/00_JG300.jpg)
the jg 300 are those wavy lines actually how it was painted in ww2?
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I dunno, I just googled 109G-2 profiles. :P But I hope so. Going to do more research. :bolt:
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I dunno, I just googled 109G-2 profiles. :P But I hope so. Going to do more research. :bolt:
heheh its a very different skin
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The JG300 one is a G-6 not a g-2 :rolleyes: I couldnt find anymore pics of it.
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Couldn't find anymore pics of the JG77 one either.
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Need more info.
The powers that be are pretty adamant about proving that the skin is historically correct.
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The squiggles were a night fighter paint scheme, as you can see by the black undersides. It is a real paint pattern, but simply taking a random pattern and requesting a skin isn't enough.
Was it a special night fighter version? With radar antenna and such? Specially equipped? Stripped of half its guns? If it was just a normal fighter painted in night fighter colors (it happened) then it's a valid request. You have to weight the CONTEXT of the markings.
Also your desert skin is not historically accurate from anything I've seen. You can't just go by artwork profiles. You need to check up on them to see what they were based on, get some supporting evidence, etc.
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The squiggles were a night fighter paint scheme, as you can see by the black undersides. It is a real paint pattern, but simply taking a random pattern and requesting a skin isn't enough.
Was it a special night fighter version? With radar antenna and such? Specially equipped? Stripped of half its guns? If it was just a normal fighter painted in night fighter colors (it happened) then it's a valid request. You have to weight the CONTEXT of the markings.
Also your desert skin is not historically accurate from anything I've seen. You can't just go by artwork profiles. You need to check up on them to see what they were based on, get some supporting evidence, etc.
That G2 is an skin for Italy I think.
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Here are two profiles of G-2s:
This one is JG300
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af159/Ace891234/00_JG300.jpg)
Been listed before & the last one is a G6?
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,284769.0.html
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That G2 is an skin for Italy I think.
I get that's the intent. I don't think it's accurate.
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Been listed before & the last one is a G6?
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,284769.0.html
Wow lyric couldn't find anything on it at all, going to try and find more info on the skins.
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once you get your info all together, I would be willing to try my hand at one....I do have plans on a Hartmann G6.... I am having a blast skinning, so if no one takes you up on your offer let me know :aok
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Took me a sec. From the massive JG300 history. Sure seems legit to me :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/jg300.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/3003.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/3002.jpg)
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Thanks guppy! Now I just got to find info on the other one, but where do I look, google isn't giving me much.....
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I'll see if I can tackle this one.
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BFf109G-2 Trop Yellow "6"
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/109G-2yellow6-1.jpg?t=1311961867)
:salute
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Not all that helpful without color. There's a number of tri-color trops. Some use 2 shades of green over sand, or 1 green, 2 brown, etc. None I've ever seen appeared like the artwork profile in the original post.
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Not all that helpful without color. There's a number of tri-color trops. Some use 2 shades of green over sand, or 1 green, 2 brown, etc. None I've ever seen appeared like the artwork profile in the original post.
Well if you haven't seen it, it must not have existed.
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This is a great site, not sure it is tottaly realistic. http://www.markstyling.com/bf109gs7.htm
Spraying krusty repelent now. :noid
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Lt.Wilhelm Scheiba, Sicily, first part of October 1942.
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af159/Ace891234/2_50.jpg)
Closest i could get.
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bump
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Kilo, you really might like backing up your squadmate, and that's lovely, but you don't need snide comments like that. We've been fielding such faux-profile requests for some 10 years now in here without your help. The best solution is to try to get people to do a bit more research and checking rather than relying on a single artwork profile. There are a number of simply wrong/fake/false profiles and yes many are published in books. You just see it and say "Wow, that's cool!" but the real answer is deeper than most want to go.
I'd say 90% just post a profile and then disappear when the response is "it isn't real"
The rest dig a little deeper and learn more.
Aces, that profile looks a lot more like what you'd find, but I'm not soo sure about it's accuracy. It's loosely based on the camo you'd find, but the green splotch size ratio seems off. I'd say it's in the realm of plausible, but there are a couple different ways it could look with that color combination.
You will note it looks nothing like the original (doubtful) profile:
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af159/Ace891234/bf109g2herzas.jpg)
Plus, wish skins resquests you really don't have to bump it. Maybe once in a while, if it's fallen off of everybody's radar, but IMO and from comments I've read from other skinners, we have our little lists. Even if we put that plane on our list, no guarantee it'll get done soon. We take note and we save references. Many of us (myself included) like to do some searching on the background and history as well, and that can add more time.
All I can say is I have some references for a 109G2 and possibly a F4 with similar color patterns. I'm sure others do too. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll keep it in mind.
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Ok krusty, but I do see how the JG77 one is not realistic because I haven't seen another 109 with bare metal showing.
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I haven't seen another 109 with bare metal showing.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_fhZZ63PRjhQ/S8cFiMnMEoI/AAAAAAAAAxU/iFq9zc5TcZo/s1600/gabler1.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_fhZZ63PRjhQ/S8cFiS_FJuI/AAAAAAAAAxc/7J0c-Skx5Z4/s1600/gabler3.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_fhZZ63PRjhQ/S8cFh4NXUtI/AAAAAAAAAxM/KqS6Jc1lDYs/s1600/gabler2.jpg)
Bf-109 G-6 "Red 8" with what looks like a bare metal finish. But dont be fooled though as this aircraft has been heavly sanded down to either bare metal or the primer to help increase speed in the hope's of catching mosquitos. This plane was part of JG300 and flown by Kurt Gabler. A intresting aircraft none the less...
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Ace: It isn't meant to be metal in the profile. It's light blue, the underside color.
Beau, I believe that aircraft in question is shown to have been painted. It was simply stripped down of all the excess camo and painted a single color to save on weight. You can see it's not metal because the elevators are fabric covered and look like they are the same shade of "bare metal" -- when you know they are not. That means they and the fuselage are painted. Most likely in a pale blue or something gloss (to reduce drag?) hence why it looks shiny.
EDIT: Or maybe even painted in some kind of silver?
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IIRC the JG300 was indeed stripped down to bare metal to aid in intercepting Mossies.
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A reminder of why it's always important to check at half priced books. I'm not really a LW guy but got the two volume JG300 history for nothing. I've used it so many times for AH its paid for itself and then some :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/1091.jpg)
I'm thinking it's sanded down to the metal. That the insignia on the wings is gone, seems a good hint
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/1092.jpg)
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Nice Dan. I kind of like it, even though it's a 109 :D
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I'm not so sure on that point Guppy. I seem to recall a long time back, before the 109s were redone, this skin was brought up (rather, the research about it). Since I cannot search for that I recalled one of the references way back was none other than Falkeins. Either that or I happened to look it up on my own at the same time to see what I could find. I looked it up. Here is the link to that specific article:
http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2010/04/kurt-gablers-jg300-bf-109g-6-natural.html
Judging by the number of models posted on hyperscale and elsewhere, Kurt Gabler's Bf109G-6/R3 - a picture of which serves as my header photo - is a bit of a hit with modellers. Usually described as having a 'unique bare metal' finish Gabler's "Red 8" of 8./JG300 is invariably depicted as an uncamouflaged metal machine, aside from a white tail and wingtips, red fuselage band, spinner spiral and decorated rudder.
First off jg300.de got it hopelessly wrong when it came to this machine, as the webmaster so often gets its wrong when dealing with photos obtained third or fourth hand. In case you're wondering what I'm talking about the jg300.de site captions these images as being of 'black 8' assigned to Rudi Winter - heaven only knows why ! Winter was KIA in action in August 1944 with just a handful of vics to his credit. (2 I think..).
Gabler had some 17 victories as per the rudder scoreboard on this machine and his logbook returned in only 23 combat sorties. A couple of pages from Gabler's logbook were reproduced in Volume II of the JG300 history (Lorant/Goyat) precisely to counter the nonsense that the webmaster of jg300.de was putting on his pages. I assume he hasn't updated those pages as he doesn't speak/read English. Incidentally Gabler was WIA during the Arnhem operation, late September 1944 as Staffelkapitän 11./JG300 and sidelined for the rest of the war. Rudi Winter was KIA in action much earlier than that and with only a couple of vics. Rudi Winter was a non-entity, Kurt Gabler Staffelkapitän..
As for the supposedly 'bare-metal' finish on Kurt Gabler's 'red 8', let us just say that extensive areas of the airframe have been sanded back either to the natural metal or the primer. However 'bare metal' is probably not the right phrase to describe this finish - this was a standard camouflaged machine with a 'stripped-down' (sanded) finish for an extra turn of speed - there are still large areas of paint over the airframe ! Exactly how much is difficult to say looking at the photos - certainly the wing roots and even the leading edges of the (starboard) wing appear to have paint on them. Gabler never actually stated that his machine had been stripped back to the metal, nor do the authors of the JG300 book - I believe that this was merely an assumption from the profile artist (Tullis) based on the photos - still a great 'subject' for a decal sheet and it certainly makes for a striking looking model! For what its worth, there is another interpretation altogether in the French edition of the JG 300 book illustrated by Claes Sundin which shows the aircraft in a primer-type finish, far from the shiny, glittering metal that most modellers love to portray this aircraft in. (See link below) Note the close-up of the tail and rudder in the photo above - if that is 'metalic' then it has a rather dull 'alloy' look to it - it doesn't appear to be 'shiny' metal. A handful of machines like this with a 'sanded-down' finish were deployed by JG 300 principally in an effort to try and catch RAF Mosquitoes, a type that the Jagdwaffe found almost impossible to shoot down. Gabler got one in June 1944, a downing he describes in the book...
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I don't care either way to be honest with you :)
My thought, is that Gabler, in the position he was in, was in a position to have his plane stripped more easily then a lower ranking pilot who would be flying what was given to him. I know it was done on all sides at times by individual pilots. Bud Anderson's comments about his ground crew stripping the paint off his P51D in one night, after he casually mentioned it to them as winter approached. He teared up talking about it knowing how hard they worked to come through for him.
Bill Olmsted, an RCAF Spitfire ace writes about it in his book. He and his ground crew stripped his Spitfire Vc of paint, along with removing armor etc to get more speed.
The fact that the tail swastika clearly has been sanded away and the upper wings are missing the insignia seems to hint at some sort of stripping of the paint.
Krusty, the article you posted, references the book I copied the images and profile from. I think the article agrees with what I just posted in that it's not a shiny metal bird, but stripped down as best they could get it. His beef seems to be with the model builders who give it an overall shiny metal finish, when it's clearly not polished natural metal.
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Well I agree as to the sanding down of certain markings. But then they clearly took the time to repaint the national markings and tail bands and ID markings on the wingtips and rudder.
I'm in agreement with the falkeins blog on the point that I don't think it would be a bare metal color. Here's why: If you want to strip down to bare metal, it's easy enough to power wash or use turpentine and get it done really fast. There would be no need to sand it down at all. There would be no remnants of the swastika. I think the sanding was part of the finish, to smooth it out rather than simply removing paint. Since we know they also polished the surfaces for speed I think this is the next natural step (fill the gaps and sand the surfaces). I also wonder if it was a rebellious move against their leadership to sand away the swastika, because they clearly painted the others back on the fuselage.
As you can see on the production line:
(http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp202/ruspren/Bf109assemblylineRegensburg.jpg)
The metals looks a bit different from the photos of the Bf109G in question. I think it's going to be either a light blue sanded down or perhaps even RLM02 primer. It's still unclear. It might be very hard to pull off but I have an idea that might work. BMF showing through the RLM02. The problem is you don't want the RLM to look transparent as much as sanded away. Always a hard effect to pull off.
If I can get photoshop running (it's picky on my new OS) I'll try something out for it.
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I also wonder if it was a rebellious move against their leadership to sand away the swastika, because they clearly painted the others back on the fuselage.
Thats something that I havnet thought of before. It does seem odd that they do paint the marking back on the aircraft, and leave the swastika in a sanded down and barely visible.
It also appears there is no marking on top of the wings. If so, why would this be. They have already taken the time to put the markings back on the sides of the aircraft, along with the aircraft number and tail band.
Also, I found on a website (http://hsfeatures.com/features04/bf109g632ir_2.htm) that on here they talk about the gun troughs and access panels being a darker color than the rest of the aircraft. This could be due to them being a different metal (iron as stated on the website I just posted). If this wasnt the case, why would they possibly paint them a darker color than the rest of the aircraft.
Sorry for the many questions.
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I'd be a bit surprised if it was a rebellious move. The more logical thought would be that the pictures were taken during the process of stripping down and repainting of the national insignia and they hadn't had the time to finish up the job.
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the commentary I've read suggests they repainted the white markings afterwards (for ID), and I've done some sanding before. You can't stop around tail codes and tail stripes with a crisp line. It's clearly reapplied when whatever-was-done was complete.
I know a couple of other instances where the swastika was removed. A bit of defiance against uncaring and demanding masters that often paid no heed to the pilots flying and dying in daily combat. There was the Bf109E-4 whose commander married a Jewish wife, forced to wear the red stripe of shame. They painted over the swastikas in retaliation. There's also I think another handful of 109s of later marks with a painted-over area where the swastika would be.
Just a theory, though. It seems intentional, that they removed almost all the paint, painted the swastika back on, then sanded it off again? You see no traces of the camo colors, or of any other leftover paints. They took it down to the primer. The swastika would be the first thing to be sanded off. I think it was put back on with the fuselage markings then the order was given to sand it back off. Oh well, just a theory.
EDIT: typo fix
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Also, I found on a website (http://hsfeatures.com/features04/bf109g632ir_2.htm) that on here they talk about the gun troughs and access panels being a darker color than the rest of the aircraft. This could be due to them being a different metal (iron as stated on the website I just posted).
Iron is just plain wrong. Iron is super heavy and bulky and not easy to work with. To top it off I know for a fact the troughs were stamped aluminum as they were part of the removable cowling. At most they'd be low-grade steel to withstand hot gasses, but I don't think that was the case. The access panels as well were aluminum. I'm not sure why the different color other than maybe they removed those parts to sand them down and didn't put the same amount of time and effort in, meaning more of the color was still on them? (wild guess, there)
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After thinking more about it, I came to the same conclusion that Iron would be way to heavy of a metal for those area's. The troughs and panels could be like you said Krusty that they just didnt put the effort into them to make them look the same. Could be some type of primer on it, but why just put it on those places and not the rest of the plane.
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Could the area near the gun muzzles just be discolored from heat and smoke?
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Could the area near the gun muzzles just be discolored from heat and smoke?
Doubtful as the panel lines are so clean and clearly distinguishable.
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Heres a few 109s I'd like to see skinned for this game.
First off is Gunther Rall's Bf 109G-2 of 8/Jg52. My favorite 109 scheme.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall.gif)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall7.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall5.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall6.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall1.jpg)
Next is a Bf 109E-3 flown by Werner Moelders of Jg53
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Moelders2.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Moelders1.jpg)
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Next up are two 109s flown by Joseph Priller.
Bf 109E-3 of 1/Jg26
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Priller2.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Priller4.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Priller3.jpg)
Lastly is a Bf 109E-1 of 1/Jg51
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Priller1.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Priller5.jpg)
Come on you 109 gurus. Let's skin these beauties.
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Heres a few 109s I'd like to see skinned for this game.
First off is Gunther Rall's Bf 109G-2 of 8/Jg52. My favorite 109 scheme.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall.gif)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall7.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall5.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall6.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall1.jpg)
Next is a Bf 109E-3 flown by Werner Moelders of Jg53
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Moelders2.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Moelders1.jpg)
Here is a JG51 bird that was approved about a year ago but g-6 slots were full... :cry
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/G6%20Eyeball/ahss212.jpg)
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Thats really cool Von Messa. How hard was to get the eyes to look right?
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Those grey emils look sweet.
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Those grey emils look sweet.
Shame they are E-3's...
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We have E-3 schemes in the game on the E-4.
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We have E-3 schemes in the game on the E-4.
But we have no E3's. That is the part that is a shame :)
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But we have no E3's. That is the part that is a shame :)
Yes, would be nice to have a true E-3. But I don't see HT making another 109E just to have a differant canopy. (See also P-51D-5)
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Yes, would be nice to have a true E-3. But I don't see HT making another 109E just to have a differant canopy. (See also P-51D-5)
Of course not :)
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Thats really cool Von Messa. How hard was to get the eyes to look right?
Trial and error, but it wasn't too painful (of what I recall from a year ago) :D
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Shame they are E-3's...
We have E-3 schemes in the game on the E-4.
But we have no E3's. That is the part that is a shame :)
You mean you want the rounded canopy? All E-3 variants were retrofitted with MG/FFm and were all 99.9% identical to E-4 versions almost immediately. There is no practical difference between the planes, save the aethetic appearance of the round canopy frame.
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You mean you want the rounded canopy? All E-3 variants were retrofitted with MG/FFm and were all 99.9% identical to E-4 versions almost immediately. There is no practical difference between the planes, save the aethetic appearance of the round canopy frame.
That was way too easy, even for a Wednesday...
I want every version of every German plane. EVER.
I like simple pleasures, like butter in my arse, lollipops in my mouth.
That's just me. That's just something that I enjoy.
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I want every version of every German plane. EVER.
Well, I can understand that...
IMO, and in the general opinion of others from previous comments on these forums, you must strike a balance somewhere. Not every version was vital or even important. Er... not to.. uh... highjack this thread or anything... but... (too late!) I would put the E-3 almost near the bottom of the list. One nearly-the-same minor variant I think would be "interesting" is the Bf109F-2 with lower speed and MG151/15. Or the Bf109E-7 or even the Fw190D-9 early model without MW50.
Where was I? Oh yes! I was agreeing with you, sort of :D
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I like simple pleasures, like butter in my arse, lollipops in my mouth.
Well, I can understand that!
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(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/john-gookin-as-butter.png)
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Well, I can understand that!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH0kOWNtLFo&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH0kOWNtLFo&feature=related)
about 1:28