General Forums => Open Beta Test => Topic started by: Dobs on September 01, 2016, 08:00:55 AM
Title: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: Dobs on September 01, 2016, 08:00:55 AM
Appears maybe the game is enforcing vsynch at 60fps vs monitor refresh rate.
Set video settings to 1080p, 120hz. Set monitor to 120hz, logged on...FPS was at 60. Logged out...monitor was set to 1080p, 60hz.
Not sure if this is "as designed" or if it is accidentally enforcing a 60hz refresh.
Title: Re: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: Scca on September 01, 2016, 08:10:21 AM
I have a 144 monitor. I had to force it to use 144 by overriding it in the nvidia settings. If you use "application controlled" for the FPS settings, it will lock at a max of 60 (the ingame max).
Title: Re: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: lutrel on September 01, 2016, 08:26:50 AM
I'm not aware of any benefits of having more than 60 FPS, the human eye can not detect any difference.
Title: Re: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: Tilt on September 01, 2016, 09:07:42 AM
If you enable N Vidia gsync the frame rate gets pushed down to 60.
Title: Re: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: Dobs on September 01, 2016, 09:44:38 AM
"If you use "application controlled" for the FPS settings, it will lock at a max of 60 (the ingame max)."
This worked although it is "application controlled" for Vsynch vs FPS..turning this to off, and running monitor at 120hz allows me to run game at 120hz.
Now if we can fix the dots (long distance tally's) issue at 4k....:)
Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: Scca on September 01, 2016, 09:49:59 AM
Now if we can fix the dots (long distance tally's) issue at 4k....:)
Splain this one for me...
Title: Re: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: Dobs on September 01, 2016, 10:25:37 AM
SCCA--running 4k resolution you don't see any of the long range "dots" they use as placeholders in game for the aircraft. So you don't see them far out, and you don't see them when they render from large dot to "aircraft" until just outside of icon range.
I'll do a recording in 4k. And upload to youtube. Will post link back here.
Title: Re: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: Dobs on September 01, 2016, 10:34:34 AM
Uploading now...
Give it a few minutes to finish (1034 Central Time).
Title: Re: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: Ramesis on September 01, 2016, 10:45:25 AM
I'm not aware of any benefits of having more than 60 FPS, the human eye can not detect any difference.
Thats the way I understand it Ram
Title: Re: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: Dobs on September 01, 2016, 10:54:45 AM
What I discovered over the years is the image blurs at high line of sight rates. Higher fps seems to help, and being able to stay in vsynch and run at higher FPS is what I'm striving for.
You won't notice stuttering until less than 30fps, but there are things other than stuttering which affect visual acuity.
Then again, I was the guy who could walk into a room of CRT monitors and see the one or two which were set lower than 60hz (flicker flicker flicker). As I discovered not everyone sees that....
Anyhow, there is a reason why the flatscreen TV industry went to higher refresh (besides screaming new model! new model!) so they could "unblur" fast action scenes and sports.
Title: Re: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: Bizman on September 01, 2016, 12:02:49 PM
I'm not aware of any benefits of having more than 60 FPS, the human eye can not detect any difference.
When I started to play AH the same was said about 30 FPS. I must admit I haven't tested higher than 60 Hz monitors, but I know for sure that in real life we can see a whole lot more frames per second than any monitor can display. An illusion of movement can be achieved by very few transitions as in GIF animations, and movies have been playing at 24 fps forever without anyone complaining about it being clumsy. However, as has been said, in fast action scenes you've got to have more than just an illusion to make the right decisions.
Title: Re: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: Chalenge on September 01, 2016, 08:11:30 PM
I'm not aware of any benefits of having more than 60 FPS, the human eye can not detect any difference.
Sorry, but this is nonsense. The human persistence of vision is satisfied at about 24fps, but the human eye-brain combination can detect much higher differences in frame rate.
Title: Re: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: Randall172 on September 01, 2016, 08:26:56 PM
Sorry, but this is nonsense. The human persistence of vision is satisfied at about 24fps, but the human eye-brain combination can detect much higher differences in frame rate.
+1 and it's not even so much that toejam looks super amazing because it's constantly at 120 or 144 FPS. It's the frame rate hitching. I've had a 144hz monitor for quite awhile now, and I can't stand to play anything that dips below 90. It's the great FPS non-debate. Seriously, 60 fps is just not acceptable in 2016. I'm no youtube expert, but I'm pretty sure it only uploads to 60 FPS anyway. (http://i.imgur.com/Gzru1fX.png) So regardless of the fact that I could run it at 144 FPS, it's only going to be at whatever the max youtube is (I Just use youtube as a general example)
Title: Re: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: Pudgie on September 01, 2016, 09:22:03 PM
Appears maybe the game is enforcing vsynch at 60fps vs monitor refresh rate.
Set video settings to 1080p, 120hz. Set monitor to 120hz, logged on...FPS was at 60. Logged out...monitor was set to 1080p, 60hz.
Not sure if this is "as designed" or if it is accidentally enforcing a 60hz refresh.
Hiya Dobs,
Are you sure that AHIII is doing this?
Now I'm not using a Nvidia vid card but AHIII uses whatever the monitor hz is set up to be in Windows and vsynch has always followed suit. That has always been my experience w\ AH thru to the current AHIII pre-release.
I currently have my monitor's hz set in Windows @ 90 hz (this is to keep my FPS from exceeding my monitor's upper FreeSynch hz range of 90 hz) and AHIII w\ vsynch on will run at 90 FPS on my AMD R9 Fury X vid card if I allow it to (I use AMD's FRTC set @ 80 FPS in addition with FreeSynch enabled....makes for a very smooth gaming experience so my ingame FPS w\ vsynch on is 79-80).
Somehow I think you may have other issues going on..................
From reading your post it seems to me as if you're trying to set your vid card to play back video instead of using your monitor's native resolution......if that is the case then I can see this happening as using 1080p video you will be limited to 60hz but if your monitor is a 1920 x 1080 native resolution monitor you should be able to run it at the 120hz refresh in Windows which then AHII should run it as well.
Just a thought...............................
Hope this can help you out.............
PS---Just had a thought.............
Are you using a TV as a computer monitor using a HDMI connect & the TV doesn't have a PC mode to reprogram the TV to act like a PC monitor? If so then you will get the same result as you are getting now as 1080p video plays at max of 60hz.
:salute
Title: Re: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: flatiron1 on September 01, 2016, 10:38:43 PM
not too savvy on monitors.
Here is what I have . What would be a good upgrade and maybe what could I expect to gain?
System Information ------------------ Time of this report: 9/1/2016, 20:34:25 Machine name: DIGITALSTORM-PC Operating System: Windows 10 Home 64-bit (10.0, Build 10586) (10586.th2_release.160802-1857) Language: English (Regional Setting: English) System Manufacturer: System manufacturer System Model: System Product Name BIOS: BIOS Date: 11/19/15 14:40:41 Ver: 05.0000B Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6500 CPU @ 3.20GHz (4 CPUs), ~3.2GHz Memory: 8192MB RAM Available OS Memory: 8114MB RAM Page File: 2256MB used, 7138MB available Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS DirectX Version: 12 DX Setup Parameters: Not found User DPI Setting: Using System DPI System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent) DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled Miracast: Available, with HDCP Microsoft Graphics Hybrid: Not Supported DxDiag Version: 10.00.10586.0000 64bit Unicode
------------ DxDiag Notes ------------ Display Tab 1: No problems found. Sound Tab 1: No problems found. Sound Tab 2: No problems found. Input Tab: No problems found.
Now I'm not using a Nvidia vid card but AHIII uses whatever the monitor hz is set up to be in Windows and vsynch has always followed suit. That has always been my experience w\ AH thru to the current AHIII pre-release.
I currently have my monitor's hz set in Windows @ 90 hz (this is to keep my FPS from exceeding my monitor's upper FreeSynch hz range of 90 hz) and AHIII w\ vsynch on will run at 90 FPS on my AMD R9 Fury X vid card if I allow it to (I use AMD's FRTC set @ 80 FPS in addition with FreeSynch enabled....makes for a very smooth gaming experience so my ingame FPS w\ vsynch on is 79-80).
Somehow I think you may have other issues going on..................
From reading your post it seems to me as if you're trying to set your vid card to play back video instead of using your monitor's native resolution......if that is the case then I can see this happening as using 1080p video you will be limited to 60hz but if your monitor is a 1920 x 1080 native resolution monitor you should be able to run it at the 120hz refresh in Windows which then AHII should run it as well.
Just a thought...............................
Hope this can help you out.............
PS---Just had a thought.............
Are you using a TV as a computer monitor using a HDMI connect & the TV doesn't have a PC mode to reprogram the TV to act like a PC monitor? If so then you will get the same result as you are getting now as 1080p video plays at max of 60hz.
:salute
I'm sorted...in the Nvidia settings there was application override which was on. Turning that off allowed me to run at 120hz with vsynch checked.
Cheers!
Title: Re: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: Chalenge on September 02, 2016, 01:00:28 AM
Here is what I have . What would be a good upgrade and maybe what could I expect to gain?
You can up the resolution, but then the frame rate will drop slightly. Your GPU is optimized for 1080p, so that first sentence may not be true, precisely. The problem is from indications in your DXdiag you are using an analog input to the monitor that you have. Digital should be slightly better, but with the 970 you should probably be on HDMI, or DisplayPort for greater compatibility with any monitor you choose. DVI, HDMI, or DisplayPort are all the same quality, but the resolution options may vary depending on which one you choose. If you stick to HD 1080p, then any one of them will do just fine. I chose DisplayPort early on, because at the time HDMI did not support 4k, which is no longer true.
You might want to consider UHD for the future, because prices are dropping and while UHD is still not an option at 144Hz it could happen in the near future. If you just ready to drop your cash and pick something up, ANYTHING up to satisfy AHIII, then I would suggest an ASUS monitor that uses HDMI inputs at HD 1080p. For less than $200 you're in business.
Otherwise, I would suggest you try a DVI cable with what you have, if you aren't already.
Title: Re: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: Bizman on September 02, 2016, 01:32:37 AM
Here is what I have . What would be a good upgrade and maybe what could I expect to gain?
Your computer looks very good to me. However, as Chalenge already said, your current resolution is low compared to what your GPU is optimized for. So my recommendation is to get a better monitor.
There's three features in monitors that you have to find a balance with: Image quality, speed and size.
The first can be achieved by increasing the resolution. 4K has been mentioned, and 8K is on the way. However, having to draw four or sixteen times the amount of pixels compared to a 1080p monitor at least 60 times in a second is still too much for most video cards. Plus you wouldn't really see the difference on a small screen, 4K should be way above 30" to benefit from the better image.
Speed is another issue. Your GTX970 should be able to run any game at a solid 60 FPS on a 1080p monitor. Cutting some of the settings down a little should perform well even on a 144Hz monitor. Size doesn't matter until the screen is so big you see single pixels instead of an image.
Size has already been mentioned a couple of times. A large screen adds immersion, there's no arguing about that. I love my 30", but if I had the space on my desk I might want a larger one. A friend just got a 46" monitor and it looks awesome. For the same image quality a 4K screen should be 92" which could already be an issue with wife ack.
I can't tell you anything about brands and models, but either a 1080p@144Hz or a 1440p (2560x1440)@60 Hz should make you happy for a long time. For both the size should be at least 24", for the 1440p rather 30".
Title: Re: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: Gman on September 02, 2016, 03:42:37 AM
Quote
I'm not aware of any benefits of having more than 60 FPS, the human eye can not detect any difference.
This is a commonly repeated fallacy, it's 100% incorrect. Anyone who has played on a 100, 120, 144, 165hz, or even higher gaming LCD will tell you the same. I can take the Pepsi challenge with a 60hz monitor and a 100+hz and pick out which is which every single time. Past 100hz it can start to get difficult to tell the difference between 100 to 165hz LCDs, but even a 100hz compared to a 165hz, that 65hz difference I can pick out which is which without knowing which monitor is displaying which rate every single time. The difference in between 100, 120, and 144 THEMSELVES is harder to tell, but it's very evident comparing a 60hz display to any of the ones above 100hz that 60hz is slower and less vibrant and smooth.
Title: Re: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: Greebo on September 02, 2016, 05:29:06 AM
I remember having to get a 60 hz LCD screen when my 80 hz CRT monitor packed up and hating the difference in FPS while playing AH. When the fast LCD monitors arrived a few years ago it was a big improvement to me. Flying low across the ground at 60 hz I can see the ground passing by in lots of little jumps, it is much smoother and more immersive at 120 hz. To me it also seems easier to track a crossing target and hit them with gunfire as the screen updates the relative positions twice as often.
Title: Re: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: Vulcan on September 02, 2016, 05:49:25 AM
I'm not aware of any benefits of having more than 60 FPS, the human eye can not detect any difference.
You are right. The human eye cannot detect the difference.
The human brain however perceives motion starting at 17Hz, and can detect frames up to around 120Hz. There is a USAF study from the 60s kicking around on the internet if you care to google it.
Title: Re: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: Scca on September 02, 2016, 07:38:06 AM
SCCA--running 4k resolution you don't see any of the long range "dots" they use as placeholders in game for the aircraft. So you don't see them far out, and you don't see them when they render from large dot to "aircraft" until just outside of icon range.
I'll do a recording in 4k. And upload to youtube. Will post link back here.
Ok, thanks. Hadn't seen that issue noted...
Title: Re: 120hz monitor and game
Post by: 38ruk on September 04, 2016, 01:44:02 PM
Your computer looks very good to me. However, as Chalenge already said, your current resolution is low compared to what your GPU is optimized for. So my recommendation is to get a better monitor.
There's three features in monitors that you have to find a balance with: Image quality, speed and size.
The first can be achieved by increasing the resolution. 4K has been mentioned, and 8K is on the way. However, having to draw four or sixteen times the amount of pixels compared to a 1080p monitor at least 60 times in a second is still too much for most video cards. Plus you wouldn't really see the difference on a small screen, 4K should be way above 30" to benefit from the better image.
Speed is another issue. Your GTX970 should be able to run any game at a solid 60 FPS on a 1080p monitor. Cutting some of the settings down a little should perform well even on a 144Hz monitor. Size doesn't matter until the screen is so big you see single pixels instead of an image.
Size has already been mentioned a couple of times. A large screen adds immersion, there's no arguing about that. I love my 30", but if I had the space on my desk I might want a larger one. A friend just got a 46" monitor and it looks awesome. For the same image quality a 4K screen should be 92" which could already be an issue with wife ack.
I can't tell you anything about brands and models, but either a 1080p@144Hz or a 1440p (2560x1440)@60 Hz should make you happy for a long time. For both the size should be at least 24", for the 1440p rather 30".
Agreed..... I'm on a 27'' @1080p 144hrz and it right on the edge of being to big for the pixels.... wished i could have went with a 1440 monitor.
flatiron1 With EM disabled in game i usually sit at the cap of 144 with all sliders at around 75%. Your 970 is about the same as my 390 so i bet you wont have a frame rate issue if you cut back just a bit.