General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: oboe on January 17, 2017, 11:25:54 AM
Title: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: oboe on January 17, 2017, 11:25:54 AM
Apparently AMD is coming out with a new CPU, to be released in late February or March.
It only uses 95W and matched the performance of an $1100 Intel i7-6900K in a demonstration at CES. I'm following with great interest; anybody else watching and waiting?
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: AKIron on January 17, 2017, 03:26:51 PM
Could be a game changer. Intel really hasn't had much competition in a long time.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: oboe on January 17, 2017, 03:34:25 PM
There's no way I could spend $1100 (or even half of that) on a CPU, but I'm very interested to see the pricing and lineup.
What will they have in the $300 price point, and how will it compare to Intel at that price?
It is good to see competition. It is also good to see AMD pay attention to power usage. My first home built was an AMD and it also heated my basement in the winter...
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: TequilaChaser on January 17, 2017, 03:49:55 PM
I've been following / reading about it..... interesting
TC
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Spikes on January 17, 2017, 04:33:09 PM
The question is what was it doing to match the performance?
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Skuzzy on January 17, 2017, 04:36:11 PM
I am more interested in the motherboard chipset.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Dobs on January 18, 2017, 12:39:52 PM
Must be held in place by those Russian hookers that were on the news recently....if it is $1100
If you are referring to AMD CPU processors using 2 or more cores in Aces High, the answer is YES!
Hope this helps
TC
Out of professional curiosity, since when/which model has the answer been a firm YES? I haven't followed the Intel/AMD battle too much, the last time I remember reading about the core issue in AH was some years ago when Skuzzy said the then new models might work or then again not depending on the exact version.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: TequilaChaser on January 19, 2017, 06:35:42 AM
Bizman, back in AH2, AMD dual core CPU processors mostly ran AH2 just using one core, with a select few dual core AMD processors using both cores
As time moved forward, and quad core CPU processors began showing up more and more of AMD processors became capable of being able to use 2 cores, although there was still a few that were not able to
I would have to go back and research for dates/year , but it has been several years now that every AMD processor I installed on a MB (computer build) for people, that 2 cores were being used in AH....now I can not be certain that every single processor/MB combination will work this way on AMD builds, but it has been since Windows 7 SP 1 was released that I have seen or heard of an AMD dual core or more cores not being able to use 2 cores
Hope this helps....maybe Skuzzy has better information with out me having to go back and research...got to get ready for doctors appointment at 8:00am...
TC
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Bizman on January 19, 2017, 07:38:29 AM
Thanks! So basically all higher end quad core AMD cpu's should use more than one core.
Back when SP1 was released? Didn't think it was such a long time ago! Time seems to fly faster every year... :cheers:
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on January 30, 2017, 09:21:55 AM
I'm gonna be interested in the AMD Ryzen 8C\8T SR5 version CPU on the X370 chipset AM4 platform..................
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Skuzzy on January 30, 2017, 10:41:42 AM
The problem with Aces High running multi-core AMD CPU's had to do with AMD not implementing a high resolution counter for each core, which we depend on. We still have code in place to detect the design issue and not run multi-threaded on those CPU's.
As to when, or if, it was fixed, I have no idea.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Skuzzy on February 09, 2017, 10:37:15 AM
Looks like it might be undercutting Intel's prices by up to 70%. Whoa!
Still rumor, but if that holds true, AMD may be back in a big way.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: oboe on February 09, 2017, 01:19:50 PM
I'm not an early adopter, but I consider this excellent news.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Skuzzy on February 09, 2017, 01:59:55 PM
AMD also, formally announced they will not be supporting Windows 7 with this new family of CPU's. I guess Microsoft got to them. Dang it.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Bruv119 on February 27, 2017, 06:16:51 PM
Looks like it might be undercutting Intel's prices by up to 70%. Whoa!
Still rumor, but if that holds true, AMD may be back in a big way.
gets released tomorrow!
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: ACE on February 27, 2017, 07:48:26 PM
And is literally HALF the price.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: BoilerDown on March 04, 2017, 02:04:37 AM
Unfortunately Ryzen is not an improvement for gaming, even for the money, over the equally-priced Intel offerings.
It looks far more competitive for highly threaded tasks, which does not including gaming. Modern games are getting better and better multithreaded code all the time, but Intel is still the better choice by far.
For dedicated video encoding, I'd rather build this (actually, I have) for less money than an 1800X: https://www.reddit.com/r/Twitch/comments/47bzdc/budget_friendly_secondary_streaming_pc_guide , as it performs better.
AMD is still going to sell a ton of these, but for gaming purposes, I have no use for a Ryzen, and for encoding purposes, I spent less to build something better a year ago from parts on ebay. The only use I have for Ryzen is how it may push Intel to accelerate its timelines instead of re-badging the same process with unnoticeable changes over and over.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on March 04, 2017, 07:57:48 AM
The part of some of the reviews that reported that Ryzen 1800X 8-core CPU's performed better w\ some games w\ SMT disabled vs enabled is the part that I've been interested to hear as from some reading on SMT and some testing results that I've witnessed w\ my current Intel I7 5820K 6-core CPU running AHIII w\ HT (SMT) disabled vs enabled has shed some light on the validity of this.
I'll be on the lookout to acquire an Intel I7 5960X on the cheap in the meantime to install and run w\ HT disabled to get a better understanding of using an 8-core CPU w\o HT enabled but this development is generating more interest for myself in a version of Ryzen (or Intel as well) 8-core CPU w\o SMT (8C\8T) when it comes time to upgrade the mobo, CPU platform in my box.
The way I'm starting to come down on all of this is.................
If games are going to still be written essentially single threaded or a single process generating multiple threads then they would be better served running under a Windows OS on a multi-core CPU that has more than 4 physical CPU cores on die w\o SMT then use CPU priority\core affinity to optimize the game threads running on the selected physical CPU cores thru Windows OS than allowing a Windows OS to try to optimize game threads running on same CPU platform w\ SMT enabled.
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Skuzzy on March 05, 2017, 06:29:38 AM
There is not a lot which can be threaded in a game application.
Asynchronous applications can best take advantage of threading. Most everything in a game is tied to an event. Just an example, you pull the trigger, the audio then must synchronize with the firing of the rounds you see drawn on the screen.
Think of what you are seeing, on the screen, and what has to be synchronized with what is going on in the frame and those things cannot be threaded.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on March 09, 2017, 06:08:38 AM
Please note that this AMD Ryzen is a 8-core CPU.....not a 4-core or less CPU.........designed using the SMP CPU core structure model.......... I have already noted on my box running w\ HT enabled that Windows will park all 6 "logical CPU cores" regardless of CPU load indicating that my Intel 6-core CPU is essentially not using HT (SMT).....even though HT was enabled in the UEFI so Windows knows this. This is why I would like to get hold of an Intel 8-core CPU to test.........my hunch is it will get the same treatment and thus is a somewhat red herring concerning an Intel CPU using more than 4 CPU cores under Windows OS under similar loads as this Ryzen CPU was placed...............
Here is some more reading............................
This service is not enabled by default in Windows OS for power saving intentions. When this service is enabled it does a better job of ensuring that threads are processed\executed along in proper order but does cause a CPU to consume a little more power so the windows system scheduler is used by default. I have enabled this service in my Win 7 HP SP1 OS and haven't noted anywhere of any issues w\ my CPU but I have noted thru the GPU frametime graphs that the graph line did smooth out better w\ this enabled vs not enabled....
This is what I have witnessed to date w\ my Intel 6-core CPU which is available on an Intel X99 platform only.......a similar platform structurally to AMD's X370 w\ a few differences................
I'm continually looking for any materials that conclusively disprove my findings but to date I haven't found any that do..............
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: MADe on March 09, 2017, 11:43:09 PM
There is not a lot which can be threaded in a game application.
Asynchronous applications can best take advantage of threading. Most everything in a game is tied to an event. Just an example, you pull the trigger, the audio then must synchronize with the firing of the rounds you see drawn on the screen.
Think of what you are seeing, on the screen, and what has to be synchronized with what is going on in the frame and those things cannot be threaded.
yes its about the cpu's speed, unfortunately they have hit the wall with GHz. Multi cores is a workaround.......... 10GHz, single thread, would rock the game world, not possible.
Good for AMD tho, kick Intel in the arse. giddy up
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on March 11, 2017, 02:42:09 PM
Here is a good article done by PcPer's Allyn Malventano on the AMD Ryzen CPU & the Windows 10 scheduler:
This testing work shows to clearly debunk the Win 10 scheduler bug issue (which is essentially the same scheduler as used in Win 7 & 8.1), but at the same time this work also clearly shows the potential advantages of using CPU priority\affinity to optimize this Ryzen 7 1800X 8-core CPU in particular AND also Intel's I7 5960X 8-core CPU when HT\SMT is disabled when running lightly\medium threaded apps (such as most games) on them.
Note in the comments section post-article of a Ryzen user who has employed the use of Process Lasso w\ the 1800X that he's using and the interesting outcomes that this user is posting..............will have to research into that.
This also shows that w\ the AMD Ryzen 7 8-core CPU's the real bottleneck w\ games running on them w\ SMT enabled is the latency penalty incurred thru Windows scheduler switching threads across CPU cores that span across the CPU core CCX modules w\ SMT enabled......NOT across the individual CPU cores themselves within a CPU core CCX module w\ SMT enabled. In fact, the AMD Ryzen 7 1800X CPU cores themselves exhibit much better latency results w\ SMT enabled than Intel I7 5960X CPU cores do so once the CCX crossover latency issue is improved\resolved the AMD Ryzen 7 CPU's should show a much different outcome in gaming performance....for the better.
Note: If you also look closely at the testing on the Intel I7 5960X CPU this same potential is there to be had as well by disabling HT then applying CPU priority\affinity, even though the overall structure that Intel has used w\ the I7 5960X shows better overall latency performance vs AMD's Ryzen 7 1800X as currently configured when HT\SMT is enabled running lightly threaded loads under Win 10......until you take it down to the individual CPU cores themselves....
Testing using heavily threaded loads shows that this CCX module crossover latency issue pretty much goes away as Windows 10 scheduler tended to not switch threads to CPU cores across the CCX modules but kept them to the CPU cores within each CCX module (much like as in a NUMA model CPU)......thus Intel I7 5960X was beaten handily as then the Ryzen 1800X's superior CPU core latency performance came to bear....
Or you can get this performance right now w\ AMD Ryzen 7 CPU's if you disable SMT then apply CPU priority\affinity as needed to optimize said game threads & eliminate the CCX module crossover latency issue w\ a little CPU core OC thrown in if\as needed.......
This would be the configuration in which I'd use it..........thus why I posted earlier in this thread that I was more interested in an AMD Ryzen 7 8C\8T CPU on an X370 platform.............
From my testing w\ my Intel 6-core CPU I'll wager that you won't need to physically mess w\ the CPU clock speeds as well. I've found that once the CPU core usage on a multi-core CPU that has more than 4 physical CPU cores on die (both CPU priority\affinity) is optimized for the intended app to run optimally the CPU core clock speed was shown to not be near the influencer as once the GPU is fully & consistently fed the data needed for it to operate fully across all dimensions any extra CPU clock speed above this threshold was shown to be nothing more than a waste of power\energy for no extra performance gain. From finding this out I have reset my I7 5820K CPU back to the Auto sets in the UEFI (base 3.3Ghz-Turbo 3.5Ghz). I don't see any of this changing w\ these octa-core CPU's whether it's an Intel or AMD Ryzen CPU............
Here's a WCCFtech article where a reviewer did something w\ a Ryzen 1800X CPU where it was reconfigured into a 4C\8T configuration then tested against an Intel I7 7700K CPU w\ both CPU's set up to achieve a clock-to-clock, IPC-to-IPC, core-to-core test to try to get a look into what AMD would be coming to the table w\ the AMD Ryzen 3 series CPU's against Intel's I7 7700K Kaby Lake CPU:
The work shown in these 2 articles has pretty much helped to validate the direction where my next platform upgrade is going........and all I'll need is a mobo\CPU combo..........for a LOT less money but no loss of performance!
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Bruv119 on March 11, 2017, 05:42:44 PM
I think i'm going to go with the ryzen 5, 6 core chip when it gets released providing it is cheap enough.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: TequilaChaser on March 12, 2017, 01:29:13 AM
Dang Pudgie
Really appreciate all the time consuming research you have been sharing with the AH community!
TC
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Skuzzy on March 14, 2017, 12:57:29 PM
Might want to read AMD's response to the scheduler issues. They are saying there is no issue with the operating system thread scheduler.
And some comparisons between Intel and AMD using an NVidia GTX1080Ti.: http://www.legitreviews.com/cpu-bottleneck-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-tested-on-amd-ryzen-versus-intel-kaby-lake_192585
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: DREDIOCK on March 14, 2017, 07:13:19 PM
I have but 1 question. Well two really.
Is this going to be a big seller? And by big I mean big enough to compete with the big boys again? Not necessarily win. Just compete.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Denniss on March 15, 2017, 06:27:49 AM
AMD is back on par with Intel although the platform still suffers from some initial release issues. Motherboards and Bios still have multiple issues, especially regarding memory compatibility. Win 10 sheduler is still an issue as it tends to shuffle task between the core complexes instead of trying to keep them in one (probably suffering from a Bulldozer patch) and also from Core parking (not used by or disabled for Intel CPUs) in balanced power energy mode setting in Windoze. Win 7 sheduler supports Core parkign too but acts differently. I have not seen any cross-OS test which includes Win 8.1
Judging from the 1-2 Beta or retail Bios released per week per motherboard one might guess the motherboard manufacturers did not invest a lot into stability/compatibility testing prior to launch. Really surprising as the AM4 platform is available since ~6 months and test CPUs (even in the now-released form) were available for multiple months.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on March 17, 2017, 11:55:52 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6laL-_hiAK0
This is the Youtube video of Pc Per's article which explains this very well. It is somewhat geeky though...........
Here are 2 more Youtube videos of a user using Process Lasso to demonstrate the latency issue on AMD Ryzen 7 8-core CPU's when threads sharing CPU cores have to cross the CCX's across the Infinity Fabric interconnect vs threads sharing CPU cores within a single CCX alone and the performance impact associated. He is using CPU core affinity to accomplish this, thus the importance of using CPU core affinity (and CPU core priority) on multi-core CPU's w\ >4 physical CPU cores (yes, Intel X99 6-core & up CPU's will also benefit from this as well) either on a single die or on separate dies to optimally target an app (or a game) threads to the optimal number of CPU cores needed to gain maximum CPU core processing time for the app AND to reduce induced latency from context switching between CPU cores by keeping the cores being used close together as in a "separate" node cluster (similar to AMD's CCX cluster design) and away from CPU core0 (Windows will try to load this CPU core 1st by design w\ threads from ALL software--including the OS itself, drivers, etc which will create excessive CPU core latency if Windows is switching threads to CPU cores farther down the binary line from CPU core0 than is necessary--the greater the number of CPU cores present for Windows to pick from the larger the issue will get).....but a user\developer WILL need to understand and know the binary CPU core numbering system that Windows uses to identify\assign threads to the particular CPU core(s), whether w\ SMT enabled OR disabled, to properly set CPU affinity manually so all works in smooth and complete harmony and maintain good CPU power\load balancing to properly maintain heat dissipation across the CPU cores......... I have witnessed this happening w\ my Intel I7 5820K 6-core quite frequently and am pretty sure this will be worse on a 8-core CPU and even worse on a 10-core CPU....and SMT isn't gonna resolve this at all for lightly to medium threaded apps\games running on these type CPU's. This is why the OS has CPU core parking code written into it....this can solve the issue w\ the logical CPU cores but NOT the physical ones....only CPU priority\affinity can solve this across the board regardless of SMT usage or not for all apps\games. When software is heavily threaded all this will go away as the OS will be actively using all CPU cores in the very manner in which the CPU core architecture was specifically designed for....heavily multithreaded usage.....which most apps\games ain't. The hidden beauty in using 1 of these type CPU's is the actual CPU power savings that can be gained by not needing high CPU core clock speed to effectively get as high\higher CPU data bandwidth output as long as the rest of the CPU (L2-L3 cache\branch output)\mobo subsystem is properly designed and configured. I have witnessed this w\ my Haswell 6-core CPU running on this Intel X99 platform as well and would expect to see similar results on even larger multi-core CPU's whether AMD Ryzen or Intel when used in the same manner.
The beauty of all this is that you don't need a 3rd party software (like Prio or Process Lasso) to apply CPU priority\affinity as this can be done on a per-application basis thru a Windows application shortcut created thru Windows CMD editor.......Windows has the capability already written into it to do this and has had this capability since Win Vista days. What Windows doesn't have written into it (yet) is the LOGIC to properly determine the proper usage of either CPU priority\affinity to optimize a running app\game, so currently this has to be done either 1.) by the end user by typing the proper syntax into the shortcut's location line so when the app\game is started thru the shortcut the OS is instructed to set the desired CPU priority\affinity selected or 2.) by the software developer who can insert code into the client software to instruct the OS to set this up for their client software as warranted\needed upon client execution. If MS has their way, this will stay this way.....and most game developers will prefer that the end user do this so that they don't have to spend (to a software developer, read waste here) time trying to do this to accomodate their client's performance across a myriad of CPU\mobo configurations as they will leave this to the OS to do....which for software developers makes perfect sense, I might add. I am currently using CPU core priority\affinity w\ AHIII right now and have been for quite some time w\ my Intel I7 5820K 6-core CPU w\ HT (SMT) disabled and the results speak for themselves vs allowing Windows to "optimize" this itself. The Game Mode model MS is implementing w\ Win 10 Creators Update is MS attempting to implement OS logic into optimizing game threads thru the OS...which includes Directx.
As for CPU core parking control, there is no need for any 3rd party software to do this as well as this is already written into the Windows OS as well since Windows Vista. It is hidden in the Windows registry and only needs to be activated for this setting to show up in ALL Windows power plans.....not just the High Performance plan. I also have this activated in my copy of Windows 7 HP SP1 and can access it within the Balanced power plan right now.....but since I have HT disabled there isn't any use for it as I'm not using any logical CPU cores, only all physical CPU cores running 1 thread per instruction cycle (Windows cannot physically "park" a physical CPU core, only allow the CPU core not needed to go into a low power state (or sleep mode if you prefer)....why you will see the unused CPU core(s) around 1%-2% usage....this isn't a good thing to have happening when a game is running on 1 of these behemoth CPU's and Windows OS suddenly tried to assign a running game thread on a short time slice schedule to 1 of these CPU cores in this low power state (Windows OS WILL use every physical CPU core available to it at some point during operation--regardless of whether it is really needed or not)....it WILL throw off a GPU under a game load by interrupting the timely streaming of data to the GPU causing a stutter at minimum--up to a potential TDR-induced BSOD at worse). CPU affinity\priority used properly can help to alleviate this issue. You also can fix this thru the Balanced power plan thru the advanced settings, Processor Power Management, min CPU power % setting by resetting this off the default 5% min setting to at least 75% (this stops Windows from cutting the CPU core power too low thus stops the lowering of the operating CPU core FREQUENCY to levels that will cause the CPU core to stumble when a running thread on a short time slice schedule is assigned to it.......all the High Performance Power plan is doing is attempting to set this min CPU power % setting to 100% by default so the CPU doesn't receive ANY CPU power management control from the OS and runs at 100% power thus frequency all the time). It is better to use the Balanced Power plan then make the min CPU power% setting change to achieve the desired results when using a Basic up to the Home Premium versions of Windows OS as the High Performance Power plan doesn't work in these versions since MS Vista (most likely disabled on purpose IMHO)....another reason to use the Pro versions & up of Windows OS. I have tested this to be true w\ my copy of MS Win 7 SP1 OEM..........
But all this posting is subjective to most folks who are still using mainstream computer platforms as most of this won't have a noticeable impact on those packages outside of applying CPU priority alone for games as the CPU core counts (=<4 physical CPU cores) are within the optimized realm of most Windows OS's as well as most software developer's client software is written to run native within Windows meaning they allow the OS to optimize the client running to a large degree and will only get specific if the OS can't give the desired performance for their client software on it's own.
The onset of the AMD Ryzen 7 CPU's has effectively laid open the curtains on OS\software issues IMHO that were effectively masked by MS AND Intel concerning multi-core CPU usage using mainstream thread usage loads in which they took advantage of in the marketing sector for profit....until now.
AMD just blew a huge hole in this scheme w\ the advent of Zen.......now let's see if AMD can take advantage of it.
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on March 17, 2017, 12:17:57 PM
Interesting Thread. I have found the same issue with windows scheduler and AH on multi-core machines. I posted a couple of years ago about picking up 10-12 fr/sec by setting affinity for AH to 2 cores and setting the priority to High ilo Normal.
So when I upgraded this time around I looked to get fewest but fastest cores, and I did go with the Ryzen for that reason.
Gaming is a broad term. Cores and GPUs that brag about capability often seem to based it on their multithreading capability, which may be great for some games, but don't help with AH that much. I think Skuzzy said many moons ago that AH runs best on two really fast cores, and 1 really fast GPU with over 2G of vRAM. This time around I tried to follow this advice. I'll see if it works out, when I get this thing up and running. Maybe tomorrow.
Vinkman
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Bruv119 on March 17, 2017, 12:20:27 PM
so to buy or not to buy this is the question!
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on March 17, 2017, 12:30:44 PM
I'll post back with some results. But my vid card is Radeon 5970. Again a dual GPU multi threading card that never helped my AH frame rate over my Nvidia single GPU card. But being CPU limited in the past, I could never tell if the card could perform well when running AH. Now I'll find out if this card is the bottleneck, despite its claimed superpowers.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Lusche on March 17, 2017, 01:04:07 PM
*looks into wallet* ... no, no question at all... :noid
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on March 17, 2017, 01:17:33 PM
BTW, lots of good info Pudgie. :salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on March 17, 2017, 02:02:50 PM
I remember back in the day (circa 1992) when Intel was in the process of developing\implementing Hyperthreading that another company that built the Solaris OS back at the same time (Sun Microsystems) was contending that Intel was hyping the validaty of HT to address the real issue of maximum CPU performance across a single CPU core over the application of multiple physical CPU cores being used on a single die to achieve maximum CPU performance w\ multithreaded apps.
Intel won this argument at that time due to noone being able to build a multi-core CPU efficient & cost effective enough for mainstream use (only w\ server usage) to prove this out in Sun's favor, but the potential of their argument was a very sound one as this is the direction that the industry is going now.........and it appears to be across the board...........
A little history to go w\ this thread on the subject. This article was written 10 yrs later in 2002...................
Interesting Thread. I have found the same issue with windows scheduler and AH on multi-core machines. I posted a couple of years ago about picking up 10-12 fr/sec by setting affinity for AH to 2 cores and setting the priority to High ilo Normal.
So when I upgraded this time around I looked to get fewest but fastest cores, and I did go with the Ryzen for that reason.
Gaming is a broad term. Cores and GPUs that brag about capability often seem to based it on their multithreading capability, which may be great for some games, but don't help with AH that much. I think Skuzzy said many moons ago that AH runs best on two really fast cores, and 1 really fast GPU with over 2G of vRAM. This time around I tried to follow this advice. I'll see if it works out, when I get this thing up and running. Maybe tomorrow.
Vinkman
Hi Vinkman,
Don't worry I'll be following you up w\ a potential AMD Ryzen 7 CPU\Gigabyte GA350B Gaming 3 microATX build (unless someone builds a X370 microATX mobo) sometime in the near future (thinking around the end of summer as I'm in the middle of a potential transfer in the short term from working for a living to being retired....depending on whether the company that I work for actually sells the business unit that I am currently assigned....should find out within a month or so. I've had my portfolio ran by 2 financial planners who've said that I have enough to retire on and maintain my current standard of living w\ some extra to boot w\o having to need SS at this time). Should be fairly easy as all I'll need is the CPU\mobo combo & the AM4 mounting bracket for my Corsair H80i V2 AIO....got all the rest on hand already & Gigabyte has the tool available to facilitate the install of Win 7 64-bit OS on an AMD Ryzen CPU Gigabyte mobo............but I also own a legal retail copy of Win 10 Home as well.
Appreciate you posting on your progress!
:aok
Now AHIII does show to use more than 2 CPU cores, depending on how you're using them, but after 4 cores w\o HT enabled I've found very diminishing returns....not so much due to AHIII itself...but mostly due to Windows OS's inability to properly maintain CPU core optimization on it's own across more than 4 CPU cores w\ AHIII running (tends to not maintain a tight CPU core group creating some unwanted CPU core latency when allowed to switch across all 6 of my CPU's cores which shows up in the GPU frametime graphs) but this is also an area where Hitech can, if he desires, to revisit the game client to see if he can take even better advantage of this hardware from their side to bring even more features to light that I'm sure they have in the que.
To be fair, the CPU core performance isn't terrible at all w\ Windows handling all 6 CPU cores w\o CPU priority\affinity applied and most folks wouldn't even notice this as a lot of what will be seen will be chalked up to a graphics card's GPU being less than. I do notice this since I've found the sweet spot by using CPU proirity\affinity and have witnessed the difference so it's VERY noticeable to me....and it's even worse to me when I had HT enabled on top of it....which has shown itself to be a red herring w\ these multi-core CPU's when the thread loads are light\medium as Windows kept the 6 logical CPU cores constantly parked regardless of usage.....which essentially Windows OS "disabled HT\SMT itself" & was only using the 6 physical CPU cores on this Intel I7 5820K CPU anyway, but if you listen to all the hype on how good HT will help w\ gaming you do need to know where this line is actually drawn as to where HT\SMT will help vs where it doesn't.
Unless we're careful I see AMD's Ryzen going down this same hype road unless it's implementation of SMT is put in proper perspective concerning gaming usage with this CPU and MS gets off it and gives Ryzen the very same treatment w\ it's version of SMT that they did for Intel's HT to achieve a level playing field as far as the Windows OS is concerned (the latency issue(s) across the Infinity Fabric interconnect concerning the AMD CCX module structure)........
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on March 20, 2017, 02:19:22 PM
So I got my rig working on Saturday and used it for two days.
Old system Core Duo Quad Q6600 Dell BTX Motherboard 8M RAM DDR3 Nvidia GeForce 8800GTX [upgraded to a Radeon 5970 Graphics card with 2G vRAM] Window 7 'Home' 64 Bit
My New system has: Ryzen 7 1800x, ASUS AM4 socket motherboard 32G of DDR4 2400 RAM Radeon 5970 Graphics card with 2G vRAM carry over from my old system] Windows 7 'Pro' 64 bit
The improvement in game play and graphics is significant over my old system, even though the video card is the same card in both builds
AH3 on my old rig to achieve frame rates in the 40s... Disable reflections, bump mapping, shadows, clutter, clutter in flight Video resolution at 2048 2x anti aliasing Object detail slider 50% Ground detail Range 25% Tree detail slider 10% Terrain detail Slider 50% Environment map = None
AH3 on my New rig to achieve frame rates of 60 FR/s... Disable shadows Video resolution at 4096 12x anti aliasing Object detail slider Max% Ground detail Range Max% Tree detail slider 20% Terrain detail Slider Max% Environment map = None
Game looks beautiful with no issues. I still can't run shadows with the terrain detail and ground range at Max...because that's an awful lot of shadows to calculate. And I can't increase the side per frame on the Environment Map with the other settings at Max.
The only issues appeared when the furball moved over a airbase town and the number of air-cons within 8K got near 30. Frame rate dropped into the 30s but there was stuttering and choppiness that seemed worse than the indicated number. Like when the frame freezes because something is caching. Video Ram was showing 1000M used out of 2000M available. This might be corrected by backing off the sliders a bit. I will look more into what ends up being and optimum slider setting.
I have not plaid with any chip settings/overclocking etc. This is out of the box settings.
My shooting and flying have not improved. ;)
Vinkman
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on March 20, 2017, 06:01:12 PM
Here is a video of me flying around in AHIII Patch 27 Dx11 on my box w\ the setup as follows:
Intel I7 5820K 6-core CPU setup: HT disabled (6C\6T config), CIEST enabled (to enable Windows Power Management thru the Balanced Power plan in Win 7 HP SP1), all else set in Auto. AMD R9 FuryX graphics card: Using Radeon WattMan to control power to graphics card except for the HBM mem (for some reason WattMan can see this mem but can't hook into it to control mem clocks....all set up in AMD default power control....using MSI Afterburner 4.3.0 to control HBM clocks @ 650 MHz max allowable thru vBIOS) Crimson 17.2.1 WHQL drivers (AMD FreeSynch is enabled in driver & in Asus MG279Q Gaming monitor w\ res @ 2560 x 1440 native @ 90 Hz Vsynch) AMD ReLive recording in 1080p @ 60 FPS
Win 7 HP SP1 OS: AHIII has Win 7 CMD-created shortcut to set CPU core priority @ High & CPU core affinity to CPU core1, core2, core3 & core4 when AHIII is executed & running (all else uses CPU core0, core5 when AHIII is running). Win 7 Balanced Power plan: All settings including Advanced settings are set to provide max performance except the following: Processor Power Management, Min Processor State set @ 80% (this setting tells CEIST to set the CPU min power level which also sets the min CPU frequency or clock speed to go to when a min CPU load is detected thru CEIST....this is on purpose for this video).
Also have 16 other component monitoring software running in the background during this video (last check approx 78-80 processes outputting 1135 threads)..............
In this video I have the Gigabyte 3D OSD overlay running in real time displaying the CPU\GPU vitals. Please note the CPU usage loads & the CPU clock speeds vs the GPU clock speeds, mem clock speeds vs FPS
Then read back over some of my prior postings to refresh on what was posted.......................
Enjoy!
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on March 22, 2017, 01:16:28 AM
So I got my rig working on Saturday and used it for two days.
Old system Core Duo Quad Q6600 Dell BTX Motherboard 8M RAM DDR3 Nvidia GeForce 8800GTX [upgraded to a Radeon 5970 Graphics card with 2G vRAM] Window 7 'Home' 64 Bit
My New system has: Ryzen 7 1800x, ASUS AM4 socket motherboard 32G of DDR4 2400 RAM Radeon 5970 Graphics card with 2G vRAM carry over from my old system] Windows 7 'Pro' 64 bit
The improvement in game play and graphics is significant over my old system, even though the video card is the same card in both builds
AH3 on my old rig to achieve frame rates in the 40s... Disable reflections, bump mapping, shadows, clutter, clutter in flight Video resolution at 2048 2x anti aliasing Object detail slider 50% Ground detail Range 25% Tree detail slider 10% Terrain detail Slider 50% Environment map = None
AH3 on my New rig to achieve frame rates of 60 FR/s... Disable shadows Video resolution at 4096 12x anti aliasing Object detail slider Max% Ground detail Range Max% Tree detail slider 20% Terrain detail Slider Max% Environment map = None
Game looks beautiful with no issues. I still can't run shadows with the terrain detail and ground range at Max...because that's an awful lot of shadows to calculate. And I can't increase the side per frame on the Environment Map with the other settings at Max.
The only issues appeared when the furball moved over a airbase town and the number of air-cons within 8K got near 30. Frame rate dropped into the 30s but there was stuttering and choppiness that seemed worse than the indicated number. Like when the frame freezes because something is caching. Video Ram was showing 1000M used out of 2000M available. This might be corrected by backing off the sliders a bit. I will look more into what ends up being and optimum slider setting.
I have not plaid with any chip settings/overclocking etc. This is out of the box settings.
My shooting and flying have not improved. ;)
Vinkman
Not bad at all!
Glad you got her all sorted out!
Keep us posted!
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on March 22, 2017, 12:58:13 PM
Oh, please check out this thread where I posted my 1st video of same box running w\ Gigabyte 3D OSD overlay running for comparison to the 1 that I posted here earlier...................
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: PR3D4TOR on March 22, 2017, 02:23:16 PM
This is the perfect CPU for me. I do a lot of video editing and gfx work, and instead of spending $2000 on an i7 6950X i get a whole computer for that! Great gaming rig too.
https://youtu.be/ed4GZ61B0yg
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: oboe on March 24, 2017, 08:07:13 AM
Really need me a drooling emoticon....
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on March 24, 2017, 01:51:47 PM
Pudgie, When using affinity in Windows 7 on my Ryzen chip it shows 16 cores not 8. I'm wondering why that is. :headscratch:
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on March 24, 2017, 06:19:43 PM
Pudgie, When using affinity in Windows 7 on my Ryzen chip it shows 16 cores not 8. I'm wondering why that is. :headscratch:
Hi Vinkman, You are seeing the 1800X CPU's 16 logical cores due to SMT being enabled (when SMT is enabled, it creates 2 logical CPU cores for every 1 physical CPU core in which the 2 logical CPU cores are made to look like real CPU cores to Windows OS in every aspect structurally).
SMT (simultaneous multitasking.....similar to Intel's hyperthreading or HT).
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on March 24, 2017, 06:39:16 PM
When using CPU affinity w/ this AMD Ryzen 1800X CPU you will need to know & understand the binary numbering order of these cores, whether SMT is enabled or not but more important to know this w/ SMT enabled.
Windows usually numbers these CPU cores from right to left starting w/ the number "0" as the 1st CPU core w/ core1 being the 2nd logical CPU core that represents the physical CPU core 0.
This is why the latency looks so good when threads are shown to be switching between the 2 logical cores that are tied to the single physical CPU core as in reality it's the SAME CPU core.
Assigning CPU core affinity is much easier to do when SMT (or HT Intel CPU's) is disabled as then ALL available CPU cores are the real ones.
Then you will need to figure out where the number groups fit within the CPU CCX modules so that you can assign a process to the CPU cores within a CCX so that you can reduce/eliminate the thread switching across CPU cores that are located in separate CCX's.
Will need to find a CCX core mapping that will show this numbering........
If I do find 1 I'll post it............
Hope this helps you out.
:salute
SMT (or HT) was originally designed to optimize "multi threading" across a single CPU core by allowing a 2nd thread to use the idle CPU core time created from the 1st thread being stalled waiting on other data to be made available for the CPU core can finish processing the 1st thread. This worked well for Intel when the consumer CPU consisted of a single CPU core on die. Once the CPU core counts exceed a certain number the validity of SMT vanishes EXCEPT only in a case where the process(s) can generate enough threads to fully saturate ALL the CPU cores.........which for the majority of consumers usage will never reach this level. From all my testing, once you reach 4 physical CPU cores the validity of SMT (or HT) drops off & Windows is coded to automatically "park" 1/2 of the logical CPU cores when the thread loads aren't sufficient to justify using them so in essence Windows just "disabled" SMT (or HT on Intel CPU's) & is in reality only using the real physical CPU cores.......... This is why I say that when more than 4 CPU cores are being used SMT (or HT) is a red herring most consumer usage levels & is oversold by all......overhyped..........
IMHO of course.........
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: flyndung on March 26, 2017, 09:42:28 AM
you think that's good check out this http://www.tweaktown.com/news/56845/amds-high-end-x390-x399-mobo-dual-ryzen-cpus-possible/index.html , dual ryzen Motherboard :)
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on March 28, 2017, 09:01:16 AM
When using CPU affinity w/ this AMD Ryzen 1800X CPU you will need to know & understand the binary numbering order of these cores, whether SMT is enabled or not but more important to know this w/ SMT enabled.
Windows usually numbers these CPU cores from right to left starting w/ the number "0" as the 1st CPU core w/ core1 being the 2nd logical CPU core that represents the physical CPU core 0.
This is why the latency looks so good when threads are shown to be switching between the 2 logical cores that are tied to the single physical CPU core as in reality it's the SAME CPU core.
Assigning CPU core affinity is much easier to do when SMT (or HT Intel CPU's) is disabled as then ALL available CPU cores are the real ones.
Then you will need to figure out where the number groups fit within the CPU CCX modules so that you can assign a process to the CPU cores within a CCX so that you can reduce/eliminate the thread switching across CPU cores that are located in separate CCX's.
Will need to find a CCX core mapping that will show this numbering........
If I do find 1 I'll post it............
Hope this helps you out.
:salute
SMT (or HT) was originally designed to optimize "multi threading" across a single CPU core by allowing a 2nd thread to use the idle CPU core time created from the 1st thread being stalled waiting on other data to be made available for the CPU core can finish processing the 1st thread. This worked well for Intel when the consumer CPU consisted of a single CPU core on die. Once the CPU core counts exceed a certain number the validity of SMT vanishes EXCEPT only in a case where the process(s) can generate enough threads to fully saturate ALL the CPU cores.........which for the majority of consumers usage will never reach this level. From all my testing, once you reach 4 physical CPU cores the validity of SMT (or HT) drops off & Windows is coded to automatically "park" 1/2 of the logical CPU cores when the thread loads aren't sufficient to justify using them so in essence Windows just "disabled" SMT (or HT on Intel CPU's) & is in reality only using the real physical CPU cores.......... This is why I say that when more than 4 CPU cores are being used SMT (or HT) is a red herring most consumer usage levels & is oversold by all......overhyped..........
IMHO of course.........
:salute
As always, good info Pudgie. I'd like to check out your theory, by disabling SMT and seeing if the # of cores drops back to 8. how does one deactive/active SMT?
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on March 28, 2017, 10:01:53 AM
As always, good info Pudgie. I'd like to check out your theory, by disabling SMT and seeing if the # of cores drops back to 8. how does one deactive/active SMT?
For certain this can be done thru thru the mobo's UEFI (or BIOS if you prefer), which is where I would do it. With AMD's Ryzen Master UEFI interface, there may be a setting to do this there as well but not sure of this as I don't own 1 of these yet.
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on March 28, 2017, 11:12:25 AM
For certain this can be done thru thru the mobo's UEFI (or BIOS if you prefer), which is where I would do it. With AMD's Ryzen Master UEFI interface, there may be a setting to do this there as well but not sure of this as I don't own 1 of these yet.
:salute
OK I will look up how to do it. :salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on April 02, 2017, 04:48:12 PM
Here is a block diagram of an AMD AM4 mobo layout provided by MSI that shows some design features of the AM4 socket that I wasn't aware of. This is using an X370 chipset:
http://imgur.com/a/Xl4gN
I've looked all over the Internet to see if anyone else (Asus, Gigabyte, ASRock, Biostar, etc.) has posted anything similar to see if this is more or less a common board layout or is specific to MSI......to date I've found none.
If this is indicative, it will matter somewhat which USB ports certain devices are plugged in, which PCI-E lanes certain devices are plugged into, etc when device performance or overall system performance is concerned.....at least when using a MSI AMD AM4 X370-equipped mobo.
I for 1 would love to see that this MSI block diagram, especially concerning the CPU socket layout, is the standard layout for all AM4 mobos. If going by the AMD 7th-generation APU block diagram CPU socket layout as a guide, it should be.
FYI...........................
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on April 06, 2017, 09:46:44 AM
Hi Vinkman, You are seeing the 1800X CPU's 16 logical cores due to SMT being enabled (when SMT is enabled, it creates 2 logical CPU cores for every 1 physical CPU core in which the 2 logical CPU cores are made to look like real CPU cores to Windows OS in every aspect structurally).
SMT (simultaneous multitasking.....similar to Intel's hyperthreading or HT).
:salute
I've been playing around with it and I have not figured out how to turn that off yet.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on April 06, 2017, 10:31:28 AM
Just some updates...
I did find that in heavy traffic I was getting FR decreases after the board discussion on Memory speeds I looked what my machine was running at. Even though I had 32 Gig of DDR4 2400 @16 CASL, the base speed was 1200 Mhz. I used the Mobo UEFI to test clock speed increases and the highest I could get it was 2133Mhz.
This make a huge improvement in frame rate in high traffic, and with frame rate drops/stutters over towns and other building intense areas.
Next I tried 16Gig off DDR4 3200 @ 14 CASL. This could achieve a clock speed of 2400Mhz. This set up seems no different than the above.
The Ryzen set is set for a constant 3.85GHz and is liquid cooled running at an indicated 58-63c.
With this setup I am achieve 60 FR (vsynched) with the following Video settings.... Max Texture size 4060 Anti-aliasing X12 Edge Detect [using the ATI Gaming settings]
Object detail Slider = MAX Terrain Detail Slider = MAX Tree Detail Slider = 50% Ground Range = MAX (3 Miles) Environment slider = None.
Other Plane Skins Enabled Shadows Disabled Ground Clutter in Flight Disabled Bump Mapping Enabled Detail Enabled Reflection Enabled Post lighting All Enabled
Still can;t run shadows because that's a loss of 30 Frames/sec. I can run all sides in the environment map for the reflections but I lose 12Fr/sec and run 48Fr/sec which doesn't look smooth enough to me. I can run 2 sides at 60Fr/sec but the reflected view stutters and it doesn't look right.
There are still stutters that are usually caused by objects caching. It seems as new planes. smoke, buildings or building damage come in and out of field [only when the count is high] there is a momentary freeze while an object caches.
the Vid mem is showing 900-1100K of use, but my card has 2Gig of RAM so the mem size seems fine.
So now I'm wondering what the current cork in the bottle is. My memory clock speed on vid card is only 1Gig. But I'm wondering if this is still a system memory speed issue.
I'll keep fiddling. :salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Bruv119 on April 06, 2017, 11:50:16 AM
if you only have a 2gig card that is your issue.
i have 8gb ram 6gb card and it runs everything max.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Skuzzy on April 06, 2017, 12:48:28 PM
2GB should be enough for 1080p, if the GPU is fast enough.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on April 06, 2017, 01:55:29 PM
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Skuzzy on April 06, 2017, 04:27:00 PM
The performance drop you noted would be expected with that card. Today, it would be considered a slightly less than middle of the road performer, in general.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on April 06, 2017, 05:34:26 PM
The performance drop you noted would be expected with that card. Today, it would be considered a slightly less than middle of the road performer, in general.
Thanks Skuzzy. Well it looks like be upgrading that too.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on April 07, 2017, 12:40:10 AM
I've been playing around with it and I have not figured out how to turn that off yet.
Hi Vinkman,
Look in your mobo's UEFI, under M.I.T. section, Advanced CPU Core Settings, there should be some setting similar to this "SMT Mode" w\ setting choices as follows:
Auto (usually the default setting that essentially the UEFI will enable SMT automatically) Enable Disable (this is the setting choice to use to turn SMT off so then when the CPU layout is cached to Windows from the UEFI upon OS startup the OS will only see the 8 physical CPU cores instead of seeing the 16 logical CPU cores)
I was surfing the 'Net last weekend & had ran across a site that had pictures of an Asus Crosshair VI Hero AM4 mobo's UEFI w\ this section open that showed this SMT option but for the life of me I can't remember where it was so I could post this to help you out.
This also should be laid out in your mobo's user manual that guides thru the mobo's UEFI (or BIOS if you prefer) sections & settings.
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on April 07, 2017, 01:31:29 AM
Anti-aliasing X12 Edge Detect [using the ATI Gaming settings]
Hi Vinkman,
You do realize that using the Radeon driver AA settings at 12X (using the EQ setting which essentially doubles the AA amount applied....equal to 24X......this is what also enables Edge Detect which essentially applies AA only to non-perpendicular edges of objects....a cheat to reduce the amount of the EQ AA to be applied so that the objects have the appearance of all that AA being applied to the entire graphic scene but is only applied to the non-perpendicular edges of a graphics scene) is a very big GPU resource hog on your 5970's GPU's............
May I ask why not use the in-game post-process FXAA to offload the GPU's of doing this then set your Radeon driver AA mode to "Enhance Application Settings" then set the AA Method to either "Adaptive Multisampling" (MSAA + TransSS) or Supersampling (FSAA)? Both of these can be used in tandem, can look just about as good as using the Radeon driver alone but will unload those GPU's quite a bit as the bulk of the AA will be done by the vid card's shaders instead of the vid card's GPU's & the GPU's are only applying a small fraction of AA to "enhance" what the in-game AA will do instead of applying the full amount of the selected driver-level AA as you're currently doing.
This is how I'm using my Radeon R9 FuryX graphics card's Crimson drivers w\ the in-game post process FXAA & it makes a very noticeable difference in performance w\o giving up hardly any of the graphics eye candy level that I desire.
Just a thought & suggestion that I wanted to share w\ you since from what you've posted on your Ryzen\Radeon 5970 performance numbers this jumps out to me as those numbers aren't that bad IMHO for a vid card that old.....
YMMV
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Skuzzy on April 07, 2017, 05:54:59 AM
His numbers are not bad and he has done exactly what he needed to do to keep them up, but it will degrade in performance under a load (i.e. lots of stuff around) and that is to be expected.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on April 07, 2017, 09:25:12 AM
Thanks Pudgie & Skuzzy for all your advice. I will play around with that and see if it makes a difference Pudge :salute
Skuzzy, If I were to upgrade my card, and per your comment about GPU speed not being that relevant, what are the key factors to maximize in card specifications for AH3?
I'm curious because many cards advertise directX-12, memory speeds up to 5700MHz, VRAM from 2-8Meg. And many cards that advertise similar specs have a wide range of prises. I've seen R7 cards for example from $250-$550 and from the specs they seem exactly the same.
An R9 can run a grand! :eek: Many of those talk about 4K video etc...which I'm not concerned with, so I'd like to maximize my AH3 capability for the money. Also with a Ryzen AM4 hardware set, should I stay in the ATI AMD card family?
Many Thanks!
Vinkman :salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: flyndung on April 07, 2017, 05:26:52 PM
Thanks Pudgie & Skuzzy for all your advice. I will play around with that and see if it makes a difference Pudge :salute
Skuzzy, If I were to upgrade my card, and per your comment about GPU speed not being that relevant, what are the key factors to maximize in card specifications for AH3?
I'm curious because many cards advertise directX-12, memory speeds up to 5700MHz, VRAM from 2-8Meg. And many cards that advertise similar specs have a wide range of prises. I've seen R7 cards for example from $250-$550 and from the specs they seem exactly the same.
An R9 can run a grand! :eek: Many of those talk about 4K video etc...which I'm not concerned with, so I'd like to maximize my AH3 capability for the money. Also with a Ryzen AM4 hardware set, should I stay in the ATI AMD card family?
R9 a grand??? even the high end R9 FURY X is only 699.99 tops its cheaper from other manufactures though
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: oboe on April 07, 2017, 05:42:06 PM
I think the key factors would be the resolution of your monitor and its refresh rate. If you have 1080p @60Hz, the 1060 or RX 480 sub-$200 cards that will support all the eye candy at decent range settings, and maintain 60fps. To step up from that, it'd be a GTX 1070 at $350-$400.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on April 07, 2017, 07:43:18 PM
Hi Vinkman,
Another Radeon driver setting that can give you a little more performance in AHIII is the level of texture filtering quality. This AMD driver setting is active w\ AHIII and does the following:
Performance = basic bilinear filtering (the lowest texture filtering level thus will use the least amount of GPU\shader core cycles to apply) Standard = basic bilinear filtering + trilinear filtering in specific texture areas where needed (gives textures the "look" of a full trilinear filtered texture w\o the extra cost of GPU\shader core cycles to produce it.....a good tradeoff thus why AMD makes this setting the default) High = full trilinear filtering applied across the entire texture mapping (the best for texture image quality but puts the most demand on GPU\shader core cycles)
If the texture image quality isn't a paramount issue for you then you could set this setting to Performance & squeeze a little more GPU performance out of your 5970.
Just another item to consider to help you out in the meantime...................
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on April 09, 2017, 10:44:47 PM
Here is an interesting article on pcper's site concerning Ryzen's new AMD Balanced Power Plan for Win 10:
Note what AMD had to say about the differences between how Win 7 & Win 10 perform CPU core parking..............
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: PR3D4TOR on April 10, 2017, 02:25:06 AM
If you plan on using your computer for any graphics or video work the Ryzen is a huge performer and an incredible deal. If you're just building a gaming rig an Intel i7-7700K is a better CPU. I've overclocked my Ryzen to 3.9 GHz, but you might get as much as 4.8 on a 7700K on water if you win the silicon lottery. Most can get 4.5 at least.
The Mac Pro in this test has an 8-core Intel Xenon E5, which is basically an i7 with more L3 cache and without the integrated Intel GPU.
https://youtu.be/No7eZZb3jdA
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on April 10, 2017, 06:48:23 AM
Another Radeon driver setting that can give you a little more performance in AHIII is the level of texture filtering quality. This AMD driver setting is active w\ AHIII and does the following:
Performance = basic bilinear filtering (the lowest texture filtering level thus will use the least amount of GPU\shader core cycles to apply) Standard = basic bilinear filtering + trilinear filtering in specific texture areas where needed (gives textures the "look" of a full trilinear filtered texture w\o the extra cost of GPU\shader core cycles to produce it.....a good tradeoff thus why AMD makes this setting the default) High = full trilinear filtering applied across the entire texture mapping (the best for texture image quality but puts the most demand on GPU\shader core cycles)
If the texture image quality isn't a paramount issue for you then you could set this setting to Performance & squeeze a little more GPU performance out of your 5970.
Just another item to consider to help you out in the meantime...................
:salute
I played around with this and a few other settings and got some interesting results. First I set this HIGH and the image looks fantastic, I also changes the anti-aliasing from EDGE Detect to standard. [in this setting it does not let you pick sampling level 2X, 4X, 8X etc..]. But there is a separate parameter called sampling type which I set to super-sampling. And finally I enabled Open GL. and I backed off on the tree detail from 50% to 20% [when flying]
This combo had a really nice results. The image looked great especially the terrain, sky, clouds. Even the trees looked great when buzzing the tree tops. The cockpit was not as crisp as the edge detect but it was still very sharp and looked great. But the stuttering was gone. Even in a high traffic situations when the frame rate dropped into the 30s, game play and the view while turning my head was smooth and fluid. I was really happy with this set up. Something in the other set up was creating hesitations, even those the frame rate was numerically higher [or similar] resulting in a choppy view. I think it may have been the Open GL which claims to smooth out image delivery when frame rates are below the refresh rate. I have no idea how it does that, but it seems to work.
Also I put a liquid cooler on my CPU and it has been holding temps below 63c, while clocked at 3.85GHz. Still not sure why the RAM can't be clocked to a higher number than 2400Hz though. Is that a mother board limit? It's interesting that all the Ryzen boards seem to only support speeds up to 2400, when the RAM makers are advertising Ryzen compatible RAM at speeds of 4100MHz. Is this something a future driver release can improve or is it a MoBo hardware limit?
Vinkman :salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: PR3D4TOR on April 10, 2017, 08:04:14 AM
Is your RAM faster than 2400? My Corsair sticks are tested to 2666, and I'm running them at 2666. My Asus Crosshair VI MB can run RAM at 3200, but I haven't bothered trying to overclock the RAM. The performance gains are marginal. If you're on the same MB as me then you may need to update your BIOS. I've updated it twice now. Check asus.com.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: TequilaChaser on April 10, 2017, 08:59:33 AM
I thought those AMD Ryzen CPU processors were suppose to use less energy and run cooler?
My old AMD Phenom II x4 975 3.60 GHz black edition, would top out Overclocked at 5.2 GHz using a Corsair CAFA 70 w/ (2) 120mm fans and would keep the temperature in the 58 to 61 Celsius range ...(built in April 2011) ..... compared to an Intel build of an Intel I7-2600k 3.40 GHz quad core using the same type of heatsink CPU cooler I could push it to 5.1+ GHz and was able to keep the temperature in the low 50's Celsius....
The FX-4350 quad core I'm currently using is locked in at 4475 MHz for both normal and turbo modes, also using another Corsair CAFA 70 CPU cooler, it runs right around 33 to 37 Celsius for the CPU with MB running 3 to 5 degrees Celsius cooler than the CPU.... (same goes for the other 2 builds, MB's on those were in the mid 40's degrees Celsius range...... that i7-2600k build was built in August/September 2011)
It shocks as well as amazes me to see people posting CPU/MB/GPU temps pushing 60+ degrees Celsius.... gets me to wondering what they have done or what type of case they are using... or if they have thought about the airflow, thermodynamics, static pressure, etc...in the design of their PC builds...
Running both of those builds, I built back in 2011 at stock clocks, all temps were under the 38/37 degrees Celsius mark...
TC
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Skuzzy on April 10, 2017, 09:06:06 AM
I am with you TC, on the temperature issue. I have my home computer set to alarm if the CPU temperature breaks 40C. It is usually in the low 30's.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: TequilaChaser on April 10, 2017, 09:12:17 AM
I am with you TC, on the temperature issue. I have my home computer set to alarm if the CPU temperature breaks 40C. It is usually in the low 30's.
Rgr, you must've been posting as I edited in what those older 2011 builds would run at, running stock clocks
Edit: and don't think I ran those 2011 builds overclocked like that all the time.... after I had built the Intel build, I wanted to see just how far I could push each build and keep it stable for several runs of 12 hrs straight, then 18 hrs straight and a final test for 24 hours straight....then I set everything back to stock factory clocks and haven't overclocked either of them since....they both are still performing excellent still currently
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on April 10, 2017, 09:32:02 AM
Is your RAM faster than 2400? My Corsair sticks are tested to 2666, and I'm running them at 2666. My Asus Crosshair VI MB can run RAM at 3200, but I haven't bothered trying to overclock the RAM. The performance gains are marginal. If you're on the same MB as me then you may need to update your BIOS. I've updated it twice now. Check asus.com.
I have an ASUS Prime B350 Plus AM4. It says it can handle 2666 RAM. My Corsair RAM is 3200MHz capable at 14 CAS. I'm not sure I tried 2666, now I that I think about it. I think I tried one of th e3K speeds like 3133MHz.
I found the RAM speed made a big difference when I sped it up so I want to get as much out of it as I can. Looks like 2666MHz is the limit of this board.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: PR3D4TOR on April 10, 2017, 09:39:35 AM
The Ryzen 1700X and 1800X offset the tCTL readings by 20C, so a build that reads 60C is really only at 40. Mine reads 40-45 at idle and between 60 and 70 at full load. The Ryzen heat-throttles itself at 95C. 8 cores, 8 times the heat production of an old single core CPU.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Skuzzy on April 10, 2017, 09:48:43 AM
Mine is a hyper-threaded quad core, not a single or dual core (Intel i7-4770k).
So is it just arbitrary to add 20C to the temperature reading? Why would they do that? Really, just curious.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: PR3D4TOR on April 10, 2017, 09:54:46 AM
"The primary temperature reporting sensor of the AMD Ryzen™ processor is a sensor called “T Control,” or tCTL for short. The tCTL sensor is derived from the junction (Tj) temperature—the interface point between the die and heatspreader—but it may be offset on certain CPU models so that all models on the AM4 Platform have the same maximum tCTL value. This approach ensures that all AMD Ryzen™ processors have a consistent fan policy.
Specifically, the AMD Ryzen™ 7 1700X and 1800X carry a +20°C offset between the tCTL° (reported) temperature and the actual Tj° temperature. In the short term, users of the AMD Ryzen™ 1700X and 1800X can simply subtract 20°C to determine the true junction temperature of their processor. No arithmetic is required for the Ryzen 7 1700. Long term, we expect temperature monitoring software to better understand our tCTL offsets to report the junction temperature automatically."
More here: https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2017/03/13/amd-ryzen-community-update
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on April 10, 2017, 09:56:50 AM
I am with you TC, on the temperature issue. I have my home computer set to alarm if the CPU temperature breaks 40C. It is usually in the low 30's.
I was very concerned about temps and have spent a fair amount of time on fan directions, speeds and flow through the case. I have the CPU cooler fans set to the highest setting of the three options. But I haven't found a manual setting yet. I found that all of these auto fan settings let things get to hot and don't speed up the fans enough. My Graphics card would get to 70c on auto, so I manually set it for 80% fan speed all the time and it runs at 37-45c, and sounds like a dust buster. I'll play with the fan optimizers software and see if it produces better results, or until I find the manual setting for the CPU fans.
I looked up Ryzen temperatures online and saw some crazies running 85c and one guy said he set his alarm for 90c because the Ryzen chipset will die at 95c. Those numbers seemed stupid high to me so I ignored them. :O
I'll keep tweaking. Thanks for the advice as always. :salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Skuzzy on April 10, 2017, 09:59:28 AM
"The primary temperature reporting sensor of the AMD Ryzen™ processor is a sensor called “T Control,” or tCTL for short. The tCTL sensor is derived from the junction (Tj) temperature—the interface point between the die and heatspreader—but it may be offset on certain CPU models so that all models on the AM4 Platform have the same maximum tCTL value. This approach ensures that all AMD Ryzen™ processors have a consistent fan policy.
Specifically, the AMD Ryzen™ 7 1700X and 1800X carry a +20°C offset between the tCTL° (reported) temperature and the actual Tj° temperature. In the short term, users of the AMD Ryzen™ 1700X and 1800X can simply subtract 20°C to determine the true junction temperature of their processor. No arithmetic is required for the Ryzen 7 1700. Long term, we expect temperature monitoring software to better understand our tCTL offsets to report the junction temperature automatically."
More here: https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2017/03/13/amd-ryzen-community-update
"The primary temperature reporting sensor of the AMD Ryzen™ processor is a sensor called “T Control,” or tCTL for short. The tCTL sensor is derived from the junction (Tj) temperature—the interface point between the die and heatspreader—but it may be offset on certain CPU models so that all models on the AM4 Platform have the same maximum tCTL value. This approach ensures that all AMD Ryzen™ processors have a consistent fan policy.
Specifically, the AMD Ryzen™ 7 1700X and 1800X carry a +20°C offset between the tCTL° (reported) temperature and the actual Tj° temperature. In the short term, users of the AMD Ryzen™ 1700X and 1800X can simply subtract 20°C to determine the true junction temperature of their processor. No arithmetic is required for the Ryzen 7 1700. Long term, we expect temperature monitoring software to better understand our tCTL offsets to report the junction temperature automatically."
More here: https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2017/03/13/amd-ryzen-community-update
I have a 1800x so perhaps I'm actually running in the low 40s. But I'm pulling those temps right of the Ryzen Master control panel. Why wouldn't they bake that into the software that reports the temp?
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: PR3D4TOR on April 10, 2017, 10:07:12 AM
Mine is a hyper-threaded quad core, not a single or dual core (Intel i7-4770k).
I didn't think your hardware was so old that you were still on a single core. It was just better to compare 8 for 8. However, with the same architecture an 8-core CPU will require twice the power and produce twice the heat of a quad-core. And all that heat must be transferred through the same size die and heat spreader to the cooling block. There's an obvious heat bottleneck there.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: PR3D4TOR on April 10, 2017, 10:17:01 AM
I have a 1800x so perhaps I'm actually running in the low 40s. But I'm pulling those temps right of the Ryzen Master control panel. Why wouldn't they bake that into the software that reports the temp?
I have no idea. I use the MB temp readings since they're more consistent at this time. It's a brand new architecture and there are stuff that still needs to be ironed out. One thing though is that there is no "unsafe" temperature within the thermal margin. It is perfectly safe to operate in the full envelope of the thermal margin. When thermal margin runs out, your CPU will throttle to a lower power state until back in the thermal margin. So 60-70C under load is perfectly fine since the Ryzen's thermal margin runs out at 95C.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Skuzzy on April 10, 2017, 10:28:46 AM
I didn't think your hardware was so old that you were still on a single core. It was just better to compare 8 for 8. However, with the same architecture an 8-core CPU will require twice the power and produce twice the heat of a quad-core. And all that heat must be transferred through the same size die and heat spreader to the cooling block. There's an obvious heat bottleneck there.
Not quite, but close. There is a percentage of shared transistors, in the CPU, which do not get multiplied for each core. The ratios can range from 2 to 1 all the way to 8 to 1. For example, a large portion of the memory manger does not get multiplied with each core as when memory it being accessed, only one core at a time can access it so it does not make any sense to multiply those transistors across the die for each core. Same goes for the instruction manager who handles instruction prefetch and branching.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on April 10, 2017, 10:33:22 AM
This is the perfect CPU for me. I do a lot of video editing and gfx work, and instead of spending $2000 on an i7 6950X i get a whole computer for that! Great gaming rig too.
https://youtu.be/ed4GZ61B0yg
Is this your rig? or one you want to build? :salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: PR3D4TOR on April 10, 2017, 10:34:09 AM
Not quite, but close. There is a percentage of shared transistors, in the CPU, which do not get multiplied for each core. The ratios can range from 2 to 1 all the way to 8 to 1. For example, a large portion of the memory manger does not get multiplied with each core as when memory it being accessed, only one core at a time can access it so it does not make any sense to multiply those transistors across the die for each core. Same goes for the instruction manager who handles instruction prefetch and branching.
As close as makes little difference.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: PR3D4TOR on April 10, 2017, 10:35:48 AM
My rig, when it was still in my attic "shed" and I turned it on for the first time. First video I made with the new rig as well.
Cool. Nice build. Our rigs are very similar except the vid card. Are you getting better performance than mine based on some of the things I've posted?
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: PR3D4TOR on April 10, 2017, 10:54:17 AM
I run AH in DX11 with everything cranked to max. It maxes out my projector's 60 fps in 1080p and uses maybe 30% of the GPU. The GTX 1080 is about four times more capable than your 5970, so it is clearly the bottleneck of your system.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on April 10, 2017, 11:00:03 AM
I run AH in DX11 with everything cranked to max. It maxes out my projector's 60 fps in 1080p and uses maybe 30% of the GPU. The GTX 1080 is about four times more capable than your 5970, so it is clearly the bottleneck of your system.
Good to know. Is the DirX version what's loaded on machine? how do you choose which version the game runs on?
Thanks!
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: PR3D4TOR on April 10, 2017, 11:02:33 AM
You choose by selecting one of the two shortcuts in the AH directory in your start menu.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on April 10, 2017, 11:34:49 AM
because DX9 and DX11 are both available. I thought when I did a clean download last time, I only got one version. I'll check.
Thanks,
Vinkman
All three versions of Aces High III (DX9, DX11, and VR) all come with the base installer of the game. Refer to the Windows start menu for Aces High, as they are all there.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on April 10, 2017, 12:38:55 PM
All three versions of Aces High III (DX9, DX11, and VR) all come with the base installer of the game. Refer to the Windows start menu for Aces High, as they are all there.
thanks that's easy. :aok
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on April 13, 2017, 09:16:49 AM
Update: So I listened to all of the fine advice I got and determined my Graphics card (Radeon 5970) was the cork in the bottle and bit the bullet and got a GTX 1080 Ti which I snapped into my rig yesterday and got to use before the server switch over. I also ran the DX11 version of the game.
Incredible. :rock :x :cheers:
Turned every slider to max, enabled everything including shadows and ALL environment side, and ran a steady 60 fps. It looks amazing! :banana:
The new terrains, with shadows cast by the clouds, and the effect of shadows rolling round the cockpit from the framing and clouds as I flew through them, finding gaps that let the sun in was...I know it sounds cheesy...Breathtaking. I just flew around because it stopped looking like cartoon and felt like flying.
The Ryzen chip set and an Nvidia 1080 ti delivered a maxed out game performance and I am so satisfied I need a cigarette. :aok
Thanks again for all the help and advice, especially Skuzzy and Pudgie. :salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: PR3D4TOR on April 13, 2017, 12:21:30 PM
That's an excellent choice of GPU. Your rig is now future-proofed for at least three years, perhaps five. :aok
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on April 13, 2017, 12:32:46 PM
That's an excellent choice of GPU. Your rig is now future-proofed for at least three years, perhaps five. :aok
Oh and thanks to you for the GTX 1080 Ti advice Pr3d4itor. :salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on April 13, 2017, 01:04:34 PM
No problem, Vinkman.
Glad to help when\where I can.
Enjoy the fruits of your labor, fellow AH'er!
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on April 29, 2017, 04:45:25 PM
Here is a video of my box running AHIII using MSI RivaTuner OSD to show my vid card & CPU core vitals.
Setup: Intel I7 5820K 6-core CPU w\ HT\CEIST disabled (using the 6 physical CPU cores only & CPU power saving disabled so CPU will run all cores at the max TurboBoost speeds of 3.7 GHz on Corsair Vengence LPX 16Gb DDR4 3000 CL15 4x4Gb mem kit using SPD of 15-17-17-35-2T timings). Win 7 HP SP1 OS using CMD created shortcut for AHIII so AHIII is run w\ high CPU priority set on 4 CPU cores set by CPU affinity exclusively for AHIII (AHIII will be using CPU cores 3-4-5-6 exclusively, everything else will be using CPU cores 1-2). Res is set @ 2560x1440x32 w\ RR set @ 90 Hz (V-synch enabled in-game) using FreeSynch.............
Win 7 will have 78-80 processes running in the background as well as AHIII so all will be running on this Intel I7 5820K's 6 CPU cores only..........
This is a demonstration of all the postings that I have posted concerning the advantages of using CPU priority\CPU affinity on a multi-core CPU that has more than 4 physical CPU cores. Please note the GPU framtimes (ms numbers after the GPU FPS) and how steady they track............ This is proof positive of a GPU not having to wait on any data feed for it to run (also positive of very smooth video operation while gaming) then note the CPU usage....................
I'll do another 1 when I'm on & there are more players on to really tax the system for a comparison....................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNaohZsj5pk
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on May 01, 2017, 08:26:39 AM
Looks amazing Pudgie. <S>
Are you running DX11 or DX9?
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on May 01, 2017, 06:38:19 PM
I do get more screen freezes with DX11. But it looks nicer. Are those your observations?
Yes.
When I run using AHIII Dx11 version I get the occasional screen freeze\pause in a very random and very infrequent pattern in which the GPU has momentarily stopped processing (can see it on the graphs that I record) then all restarts and runs fine w\o a BSOD (this action according to Microsoft is what they call a TDR event (timeout detection & recovery) which is triggered when a graphics card's GPU takes too long to process data (timeout is triggered if the GPU hasn't finished processing a string within a 2 sec window....industry standard for GPU's to meet)). The OS will then call the monitor's miniport driver to trigger the graphics card's driver to reset the GPU and flush the buffer at the same time (the pause\freeze\stutter you see) so the GPU will start over fresh w\o sending the computer into a BSOD. This is why you most likely won't find a .dmp file as this behavior is by design starting w\ Win 7 OS forward and since this is by design, the game will continue to run & will resend the flushed data again from the system mem cache to stay in sequence once the GPU has restarted successfully.
I have witnessed this to stop every blue moon on a particular GPU driver update only to see it reoccur on a successive GPU driver update, then when I revert back to the prior driver update that didn't show this issue prior, it is showing up....................
The mystery is what is actually the issue(s) going on that is causing this to occur. This is what Hitech & Co are having to try to track down but to date they haven't been able to replicate it on their systems to then do the diagnostics to track down the issue(s) causing it. I haven't found any indicators that really narrow this down except that just before it occurs my GPU running usage % will drop down to 0% then suddenly "freezes" for a split second w\ the GPU FR dropping, GPU frametime dropping, GPU clock speed dropping but GPU mem speed is unaffected......then start back up as if nothing happened................
As for running AHIII under Dx9, my box runs it pretty much w\o issue.....even w\o the screen pause\freeze issue..............
Hope this helps.
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Skuzzy on May 03, 2017, 07:06:20 AM
It is not that we have not seen it. We have, but we have not been able to reliably duplicate it and that is what we need in order to debug it.
To my knowledge, no one has come up with a way to reliably duplicate it.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Toad on May 03, 2017, 07:20:43 AM
I'm not techie enough to figure it out but the Lenovo I inherited has both AH3 DX11 and DX9 on the hard drive.
I get random pauses with the DX11 version and none at all with DX9. Same machine, same video settings, same everything settings.
The only bit I can toss out is that on the DX11 version it's always when there's a lot of change going on on the screen, fast drawing if you will. Like flat out fast scissors on the deck with lots of trees in the scene. A merge in a melee with several aircraft moving fast and shooting in the view. This usually results in me hitting a tree or something when the screen reactivates.
Same situations in DX9 present no problems. So I run 9.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on May 17, 2017, 11:32:33 AM
Gonna reuse all else. Already have a retail copy of Win 10................
:salute
It will be great to swap notes now that our hardware will be similar. :salute
I'm curious about over clocking software conflicts between that provided by Ryzen and that provided by ASUS. Which software rules, and do they need to be synched, or clocking steps need to be performed in a certain order? Wondering if that's why I can't get RAM to clock past 2400 kHZ even though it's listed as 3200 kHz and compatible with Ryzen chips.
ASUS OC Software on MoBo: - Shows CAS 16 @ 2400 kHZ. [DDR4 Specs say it's CAS 14, @ 3200 kHZ] - When overclocking fails, you can just reboot to ASUS Mobo software and change it back.
Ryzen OC software from Windows - Was able to set RAM CAS to 14 @ 2400 kHZ. IT worked and ran fine. - Was not able to OC memory to anything over 2400 kHz - When OC fails, Windows crashes and gives you an option to perform a Windows Repair. This screen runs until an old 16bit dos menu asks if you want to Restore or Cancel, but the keyboard and mouse have lost function so you can't click either button. You re-boot and repeat. :bhead. Work around was to continuously press the enter key when the repair started and I think it got the mouse click in before the peripherals when in-operative. Screen went black for 15 min, so I reset and found the machine had restored back to previous Mem speed settings on reboot. :pray.
So Clocking with the Ryzen software is a risky proposition. Best to have a boot Flash drive standing by? :salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on May 18, 2017, 03:20:19 PM
It will be great to swap notes now that our hardware will be similar. :salute
I'm curious about over clocking software conflicts between that provided by Ryzen and that provided by ASUS. Which software rules, and do they need to be synched, or clocking steps need to be performed in a certain order? Wondering if that's why I can't get RAM to clock past 2400 kHZ even though it's listed as 3200 kHz and compatible with Ryzen chips.
ASUS OC Software on MoBo: - Shows CAS 16 @ 2400 kHZ. [DDR4 Specs say it's CAS 14, @ 3200 kHZ] - When overclocking fails, you can just reboot to ASUS Mobo software and change it back.
Ryzen OC software from Windows - Was able to set RAM CAS to 14 @ 2400 kHZ. IT worked and ran fine. - Was not able to OC memory to anything over 2400 kHz - When OC fails, Windows crashes and gives you an option to perform a Windows Repair. This screen runs until an old 16bit dos menu asks if you want to Restore or Cancel, but the keyboard and mouse have lost function so you can't click either button. You re-boot and repeat. :bhead. Work around was to continuously press the enter key when the repair started and I think it got the mouse click in before the peripherals when in-operative. Screen went black for 15 min, so I reset and found the machine had restored back to previous Mem speed settings on reboot. :pray.
So Clocking with the Ryzen software is a risky proposition. Best to have a boot Flash drive standing by? :salute
Hi Vinkman,
Yeah, looking forward to the upgrade so that I can get familiar w\ it.
Now on the subject of overclocking a CPU, I'm an old school kind of user which means that I wouldn't recommend performing any CPU overclocking from Windows (which is what AMD RyzenMaster software can be used for) due to the kind of issues that you've already been dealing with (and more). I recommend to always do it within the mobo UEFI (or BIOS if you still prefer to call as such) as this is where the CPU is being initialized upon startup. Same thing goes for memory as well for the same reasons. What I would use RyzenMaster software for is to just monitor the CPU operation only. Now from all that I have read up on this CPU, the issue w\ the memory isn't the CPU per se as reported (the mem controller is capable of running up to 3200 or higher), the issues fall around either the memory modules themselves due to electrical compatibility w\ the Infinity Fabric interconnect (Samsung B die modules are reported to be the best for electrical compatibility) regardless of whether the mem was "tested" for Ryzen specs or the mobo UEFI\BIOS is not up to snuff as far as reading the mem SPD to match up to the specific Ryzen CPU (dealing w\ the Infinity Fabric interconnect again) thus will have to be set up manually within the UEFI\BIOS. AMD has also just now come out w\ an updated AEGISA firmware for their Ryzen CPU drivers that is supposed to help out w\ mem compatibility w\ these Ryzen CPU's so you might want to look for\into this for your box.
Are you still using the original UEFI\BIOS in your mobo when you bought it or have you flashed it to latest version yet? You may need to have it flashed to the latest version to fix some of this. If you do need to do this I would also recommend to do this within the UEFI\BIOS as well & not in Windows. You might check into whether there is an updated version available on your mobo's web site.
This is 1 of the main reasons why I stuck w\ a Gigabyte AM4 X370 mobo as most of the reviews on them give them good marks for UEFI compatibility and also the dual BIOS\UEFI feature (not to mention that I'm currently using 1 of their mobos & have gotten very familiar w\ how they work)................
I personally do not plan on overclocking my 1800X per se at all, just plan to kill off any of the CPU power saving stuff so that it'll run at the full rated clock speeds then work w\ the individual CPU cores to optimize it for the apps\games that I'll be using on it.....just as I have done w\ this Intel I7 5820K CPU. I'll let you know how all this goes once I get all up & going..............
Working w\ Win 10 is what's going to be interesting............................
Looking forward to it.
:salute
PS--Just checked Gigabyte's web site on the mobo that I've bought.........there's a new UEFI (F2) that has the updated AGESA firmware to help w\ mem compatibility & an updated AMD chipset driver so I'm downloading all this right now & will have all ready on a USB stick.
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on May 19, 2017, 06:38:39 PM
CPU & mobo came in today................ Got 1 of the Malaysia built 1800X's................
Waiting on the H80i V2 AM4 retention bracket to get here then it's time to perform surgery........................
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on May 22, 2017, 01:13:05 PM
Are you still using the original UEFI\BIOS in your mobo when you bought it or have you flashed it to latest version yet? You may need to have it flashed to the latest version to fix some of this. If you do need to do this I would also recommend to do this within the UEFI\BIOS as well & not in Windows. You might check into whether there is an updated version available on your mobo's web site.
This is 1 of the main reasons why I stuck w\ a Gigabyte AM4 X370 mobo as most of the reviews on them give them good marks for UEFI compatibility and also the dual BIOS\UEFI feature (not to mention that I'm currently using 1 of their mobos & have gotten very familiar w\ how they work)................
Looking forward to it.
:salute
PS--Just checked Gigabyte's web site on the mobo that I've bought.........there's a new UEFI (F2) that has the updated AGESA firmware to help w\ mem compatibility & an updated AMD chipset driver so I'm downloading all this right now & will have all ready on a USB stick.
:salute
I have checked for updates on my ASUS Mobo, but haven't seen one yet. If there is one out for Gigabite,...maybe ASUS will soon as well. :salute
I prefer to use the mother board one, I just wasn't clear on whether the Chip people can prevent the MoBo people from change clock speeds. Also I have not seen a reason to OC the Chipset at this time. I did want to clock the DRAM to it's highest possible speed...since I paid for it. ;-)
Good Luck. :salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on May 22, 2017, 09:23:46 PM
I have checked for updates on my ASUS Mobo, but haven't seen one yet. If there is one out for Gigabite,...maybe ASUS will soon as well. :salute
I prefer to use the mother board one, I just wasn't clear on whether the Chip people can prevent the MoBo people from change clock speeds. Also I have not seen a reason to OC the Chipset at this time. I did want to clock the DRAM to it's highest possible speed...since I paid for it. ;-)
Good Luck. :salute
I hear ya on the mem speed.....that's the main reason why you'd want to install the latest UEFI\BIOS for your mobo.
As for my upcoming setup, The Gigabyte mem compatibility sheet says that both my current Corsair Vengenance LPX 2133 DDR4 16Gb 4Gb x 4 mem kit and Corsair Vengenance LPX 3000 DDR4 16Gb 4Gb x 4 mem kit are compatible w\ my mobo\Ryzen CPU so we shall see if this 1800X behaves...... The 2133 kit should run natively at SPD but the 3000 kit should run at SPD once downclocked to 2933 Hz....but this was before the AGESA firmware upgrade came out so it will be interesting to see if this sets the tables more electrically correct w\ Infinity Fabric interconnect.
Corsair is taking it's sweet time about sending the AM4 retention bracket for my H80i V2 AIO.....been 8 days since ordering, still in processing according to their web site.
Got all in hand for whenever my retention bracket gets here.
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on May 23, 2017, 07:56:46 AM
Corsair is taking it's sweet time about sending the AM4 retention bracket for my H80i V2 AIO.....been 8 days since ordering, still in processing according to their web site.
Got all in hand for whenever my retention bracket gets here.
:salute
The retention bracket I needed came with the Corsair H110i without needing any additional hardware from either. :headscratch:
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on May 23, 2017, 09:10:56 PM
The retention bracket I needed came with the Corsair H110i without needing any additional hardware from either. :headscratch:
I bought this Corsair H80i V2 AIO well before AMD came out w\ the AM4 socket mobos (have had this AIO for almost 2 yrs....got it when I still was using my X79 platform) so the AMD retention bracket that it came with is for FM1, FM2, AM3, AM3+ socket mobos....which will not work w\ AM4 socket (I've already made the comparison fit w\ it to this Gigabyte GA-AX370 Gaming K5 mobo....no go & it can't even be modded to fit...not even close).
All else will work (standoffs) as AMD retained the height of the AM4 socket\CPU's to be the same as the older sockets, just not the bolt pattern\dimensions.
Actually I like the bolt pattern\dimensions of the new AM4 socket much better than the old setup (wider\closer to the socket) for stability.
FYI......................
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on May 25, 2017, 07:24:24 PM
FINALLY!!!!!
My AM4 retention bracket has been shipped thru USPS so most likely middle of next week..................
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on May 26, 2017, 07:11:03 AM
My AM4 retention bracket HAS arrived at Pudgieland this morning!!!!
:x :aok :D :rock
So ole Pudgie will be signing off for a while to perform some surgery on the ole box.
Win 10, here I come..........again!
Hopefully the 2nd time around will go better than it did the 1st time..................
:salute
Godspeed my friend. :salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: oboe on May 26, 2017, 01:15:09 PM
Remind me - did you guys both get the 1800X? For my next build I'm looking at something less than that, but more $$ into the video card.
Good Luck Pudgie, hope it goes smoothly.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on May 27, 2017, 01:44:10 PM
Ok folks, ole Pudgie's back in the saddle riding on Team Red.................
Got all squared away and enough of my stuff loaded back on her to take it for a test run w\ AHIII. All was set up in same order & configuration as I was running my Intel I7 5820K but set CPU affinity for the game to use the last 4 CPU's to remain within this CCX module to limit\stop the cross CCX module data switching..........yep AMD has got a good one going here (I got the Ryzen 7 1800X CPU for my purposes but most should be fine w\ the Ryzen 5 1600\1600X) as it performed as good or better as the I7 5820K.
As soon as the new mem kit gets here I will record a video of this box running the game using the overlay combo of RivaTuner & HWINFO.
This is gonna be a good platform, even for gaming........
More to come. Gonna get back to loading more stuff up..............
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on May 28, 2017, 01:02:46 PM
Oh, 1 more item to put out there...................
From my testing so far w\ this new AMD Ryzen 8-core CPU, it does show to perform better on this box of mine w\ SMT disabled (running 8 physical CPU cores) instead of running w\ SMT enabled (running 16 logical CPU cores), as had been reported in some reviews online.
The CPU performance was more crisp, stable and faster due to a lot less latency within the CPU so there is something to be said not only for looking into tuning\optimizing the Infinity Fabric interconnect architecture within this Ryzen CPU but also some tuning within MS Win 10 schedulers on better thread allocation management to the new AMD Ryzen CPU, not just CPU core recognition\thread assignment between a physical and logical CPU core (this is the part that the reviewers at PcPer debunked). It clearly showed that by using CPU priority\affinity running AHIII I could get a better result out of this Ryzen CPU than leaving this to the OS to do on it's own using 8 physical CPU cores (SMT disabled).
Once I get the new G-Skill FlareX 3200 DDR4 CL14 16Gb 8Gb x 2 mem kit (specifically designed & tested for use w\ this CPU and chipset) to eliminate the weirdness that I was seeing going on from time to time (box would sometimes go into a perpetual startup loop w\ the UEFI showing to be hung at times until I stopped trying to reset the UEFI to run my mem @ 2933--even though it showed to take it in the UEFI) and removed 2 of my mem sticks (was using all 4 mem slots prior so there is some issue w\ filling all 4 mem slots w\ the current mem I'm using....all 4 mem sticks are good) then this stopped. The larger issue w\ this is that this issue would cause the UEFI to reset itself entirely & switch back to the backup F1 UEFI which made this issue even worse as the original F1 UEFI don't like these Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000 DDR4 modules at all (these were specifically designed to perform on Intel X99 platforms so this is most likely the main cause) when set anywhere other than the native freq @ 2133.
The AMD Ryzen 7 1800X CPU performance should also go up in a dramatic way as well.....just as I saw w\ my Intel X99 I7 5820K platform when I swapped out the Corsair Vengeance LPX 2133 DDR4 16Gb 4Gb x 4 mem kit w\ this same Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000 DDR4 16Gb 4Gb x 4 mem kit.
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on June 01, 2017, 01:08:07 PM
So I down loaded UEFI version 0613 and loaded it up and ran on the first try. :aok
after installing, I was able to use the Ryzen OC software to increase DDR4 speed to 2666, and set CAS to 14. rebooted and worked without issue. :aok :banana:
I have yet to boot up to ASUS screen and check to see if SMT can be disabled in the new version. There was no option to do that in v0503. There is no option in the Ryzen software to do that either. I have not checked for a new version of the Rysen OC software, I will do that and see if there is an update. I will try that tonight. :salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on June 01, 2017, 06:53:24 PM
So I down loaded UEFI version 0613 and loaded it up and ran on the first try. :aok
after installing, I was able to use the Ryzen OC software to increase DDR4 speed to 2666, and set CAS to 14. rebooted and worked without issue. :aok :banana:
I have yet to boot up to ASUS screen and check to see if SMT can be disabled in the new version. There was no option to do that in v0503. There is no option in the Ryzen software to do that either. I have not checked for a new version of the Rysen OC software, I will do that and see if there is an update. I will try that tonight. :salute
Hi Vinkman,
The only place you will find that setting is in the UEFI..........and it should be there as this setting is standard issue (or should be).........
Whereever in your UEFI the settings for the "Advanced CPU Settings\Options" are located within your UEFI vers this setting "SMT Mode" should also be there. Default is "Auto" (UEFI determines whether to enable SMT or not (simultaneous multithreading technology)..........always will) Set this to "Disable" to shut down SMT (turns off the 16 logical CPU cores so only the 8 physical CPU cores will be seen\used by the OS on startup).
Disabling this won't hurt anything on your box. Only instructs the OS to assign 1 thread per CPU core to execute at a time instead of 2 threads per CPU core to "execute" at a time.
Then once booted back up go into Task Manager, Performance, hit Resource Manager at bottom then hit CPU tab then check all CPU cores to right to make sure that all show to be 100% utilization (top right of each CPU core window...). If any of them say "parked" then you will need to go into the Windows Power Plan & set it to "High Performance" so the OS will not park any of the CPU cores.
Disregard if you have already done so....................
You running Win 7 or Win 10?
Remember you loading Win 7..................., right?
:salute
PS---My GSkill FlareX 16Gb DDR4 CL14 3200 8Gb x 2 mem kit should arrive tomorrow.................. :aok
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on June 03, 2017, 12:04:45 PM
Win 7. It's amazing the the last versions of the UEFI did have that option. Been tied up and am out of town so it looks like Monday will be next chance to try.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on June 03, 2017, 05:28:18 PM
Update:
My GSkill FlareX 3200 DDR4 CL14 16Gb 8Gb x 2 mem kit didn't make it to Pudgieland until a short time ago today. This is the mem kit specially designed & tested to be compatible w\ AMD Ryzen CPU's\X370, B350 chipsets.
Shut down, swapped out the mem then rebooted & went into the UEFI......F2 UEFI (has the new AMD AGESA 1.0.0.6 firmware) had already read the mem, switched to the XMP Profile1 setting & set itself to 3200, 14, 14, 14, 36, 1T.
COOL!!!!!!!!!!!
:aok :x
Rebooted into Windows and................WOW! This thing is really flying now!
Checked all thru AMD RyzenMaster software.......all is set up as it should have been thru XMP (SMT is disabled.....using the 8 physical CPU cores only).
I am stoked now!
:rock :x :banana:
The mem latency & performance improvements are VERY, VERY noticeable as this AMD Ryzen 7 1800X has now been unleashed...........
Went in AHIII and flew around........now seeing some of the Ryzen CPU cores clocking up to 3.9 GHz on their own while flying! Game ran beautifully using Win 10 Game Mode (shows to consistently spread out the game threads across both CCX modules so I stopped manually setting CPU affinity & have installed Prio to auto set CPU priority for AHIII to High) & AHIII using CPU priority alone.
Yeah, I believe this AMD platform is gonna be a winner. Now waiting on Rx Vega to show what it has to offer.
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Masherbrum on June 05, 2017, 12:44:35 AM
What is more amazing is that I haven't done a single thing to my 7700K and I get max settings in every game.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on June 06, 2017, 07:52:34 AM
Feedback time.
I downloaded the new version of the Ryzen Master O.C. software and loaded it, I also downloaded the latest ASUS MOBO AM4 Drivers 0613. This allowed me to set the CAS to 14, and DDR4 speed to 2666MHz. Once that was accepted I was able to set the DDR4 Mem Speed in the ASUS BIOS to 2666MHz as well. booted and ran with no issues. Attempts to clock Mem faster than 2666MHz failed. I do have the same mem kit as you Pudgie. G-Skill 3200 14 blah blah. I did notice that the Ryzem software still only had speed increments of 1033, 1200, 1333, then it jumps to 1633. Not sure why there is no 1600, or 1466. So I think my ASUS prime B350 may be limited to 2633.
Then I played around with SMT which is now in the new version of the ASUS software. Turning SMT off did not work as well for me with respect to Freezes. The frequency and duration increased dramatically. so I went back to SMT enabled. So switching between real cores created more freezes than switching between virtual cores. I'm running Windows 7. IT did not improve with affinity or priority changes.
I don't know how to tell if my UEFI has the AMD AGESA 1.0.0.6 firmware.
Vinkman
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on June 07, 2017, 11:34:08 PM
Update:
Noticed Gigabyte has come out w\ another UEFI update for my AX370 Gaming K5 mobo......F3c Beta UEFI.
Has the new AMD AGESA 1.0.0.6 firmware w\ the new addition of EZ Overclock Tuner which can give the user the choice to now set up the CPU\mem power control to control the power output to the CPU\mem modules themselves or the driver will now auto-control the power regulation to both CPU\mem modules to better align the 2 to provide more stability in operation as this is also 1 of the nagging issues concerning AMD Ryzen CPU's w\ mem modules compatibility across Infinity Fabric interconnect over PCI-E to the X370\B350 chipsets....especially when a user is installing mem modules that range past the specified 2667 limit of the onboard mem controller (controller can overclock higher) that controls this across the Infinity Fabric interconnect (like the GSkill FlareX 3200 mem kit that I have in my box) to compliment the new AGESA firmware upgrade.
Have d'ld & flashed my mobo w\ it & set the EZ Overclock Tuner to Auto (default)...........so far this box now shows to be performing since this UEFI upgrade just as stable as the Intel X99 platform that I was using prior....after I figured out the quirks that I had w\ it when I 1st got it.....which is no different w\ this AMD Ryzen platform now...............
Just saying...................
Then I ran across a section of the MS Windows Developers site that dealt w\ optimizing the Windows Power Plans to facilitate the workloads that would be run thru servers using multi-core CPU's under Windows Server 2016 (which is the basis for Windows 10 Power Plan setup as MS used their results of tuning this for optimum Windows Server 2016 usage for Power Saver, Balanced & High Performance power plans then ported these to the consumer version of Win 10 as is). In reading over these I also found out some other good stuff that can be done w\ these plans for the process of how to go about tuning them to meet specific workloads parameters and accomplish the right mix of CPU, mem subsystem, networking performance, power usage & utilization a user (read IT personnel here) desires from their systems.
The 1 that caught my attention was the specific usage scenario that was specifically discussed and laid out in detail on how to tune the Windows Balanced Power Plan to perform in every aspect as the High Performance Plan but retain good power usage control\savings to get better CPU, mem utilization\performance as the High Performance Plan can give as currently setup but retain good power usage control when running light to medium workloads that require very quick CPU\mem response times to run well (such as games.......MS terms as workloads that are "bursty in nature" but can still give good sequential CPU, mem utilization\performance when the workloads require it) by resetting the parameters within Powercfg.exe that determine all this in the background of all Windows Power Plans....then they listed the parameters that were necessary to do all this for the Balanced Power plan w\ the default settings given as well as the optimized settings to use if 1 wanted to revert back to the default settings if desired.
I was game to try it out so I went into Command Prompt w\ Admin & made the MS recommended Powercfg.exe power parameters setting changes to the Balanced Power Plan (can make these to any of the 3 Windows Power Plans you choose to) in my Win 10 Home OS and it took every one of them (5 changes in all). Then I entered the command to activate the new Powercfg.exe settings parameters then exited out and started up AHIII (all other settings as set in the Balanced Power plan that I had already set prior were not affected in any way so these settings reside within the background and can only be accessed thru the Windows Command Prompt...............).......
I can report that these settings do achieve exactly what MS said they would do as the CPU performance\utilization was greatly improved. The game ran so smooth w\ much better control response that it threw my coordination off for a while until I started adjusting to it. Still got a couple of screen freezes during my flying time last night but the rest of the flight time was very enjoyable.......so much so that I stayed up until 1:10 hrs this morning flying...........................
There was a section devoted to optimizing a CPU under the NUMA std (thinking bout Ryzen's CCX modules & how this could fit in w\ all this) but I'll have to read up some more to get a good understanding before I make any attempts to try any of it w\ this Ryzen CPU.
We're getting there...............1 step at a time.
I have to say......I am loving my tinkering time w\ this here AMD Ryzen 7 CPU\X370 chipset platform so far......
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on June 10, 2017, 10:36:36 AM
Update:
All is performing very well at this time. This AMD Ryzen 7 1800X CPU is very stable since upgrading the UEFI to F3c Beta set up using all stock CPU UEFI settings except SMT Mode (disabled). GSkill FlareX 16Gb 8Gbx2 3200 DDR4 mem is running at XMP SPD settings (14-14-14-34-1T @ 3200). So the only CPU core overclocking being done is thru the UEFI TurboCore settings. AMD Radeon R9 FuryX graphics card is also running at stock settings thru Radeon WattMan control settings (all at default). The background CPU power parameter setting changes made thru Powercfg.exe within the Windows Balanced Power plan have made a very noticeable & positive CPU performance improvement in all areas of computing on this box but especially when playing AHIII due to the improved CPU response time to game needs in addition to the game getting increased CPU priority % for thread execution.
1 thing I will say here, AMD's Cool & Quiet CPU power\frequency control (same as Intel's CEIST....CPU Enhanced Intel Speed Step Technology) shows to do a much better job of controlling this Ryzen 7 CPU vs Intel controlling the I7 5820K CPU w\ the default min power % setting of 5% in the Windows Balanced power plan as I have never witnessed this box having any stuttering show up in the game when the CPU cores were lightly loaded w\ this AMD Ryzen 7 1800X 8-core CPU as I witnessed happening w\ the Intel I7 5820K 6-core CPU platform I was using prior-simply due to Cool & Quiet not allowing the CPU core frequency to drop below 2.1 GHz under full game load whereas CEIST would allow the CPU core frequency to drop as low as 1.2 GHz under the same scenario causing the GPU to stutter.
So from seeing this I then reset the min power % setting in the WBPP from the default of 5% to 75% so that the 1800X will not drop below 3.1 GHz since this CPU's TDP is so low (95W at full load). So now while playing AHIII this Ryzen 7 1800X CPU frequency is running under full game load between 3.1 GHz-3.7 GHz on all 8 cores w\ the occasional bump up on a couple of CPU cores to 3.9 GHz-4.0 GHz.
With Windows 10 Game Bar enabled (necessary to manually set up the new Win 10 Game Mode control for AHIII) Windows 10 schedulers show to consistently divide threads across the 2 CCX units in a 60-40 to 70-30 pattern (CCX unit w\ CPU cores 0-3 getting the larger percentage of threads) w\ the CPU usage operating around 10%-16% on avg......this is lower than what I saw using the Intel I7 5820K CPU which avg between 16%-22%. Now in the whole scheme of things this is a moot point as neither of these CPU's were showing to be anywhere near loaded by AHIII under a full game load but this also shows, at least to me, that this Ryzen 7 CPU is a little better in total CPU core latency performance when the threads are managed across both CCX units instead of just 1 CCX unit alone and any context switching of threads across the CPU cores within the CCX units STAY w\ the CPU cores within each CCX unit & not being passed across to cores from 1 CCX unit to the other CCX unit thru the shared L3 caches of the CCX units over Infinity Fabric interconnect. It is this pattern of CPU thread management that seems to suggest that Win 10 is seeing this Ryzen 7 CPU's CCX units thru Game Mode as "semi-NUMA nodes".....which would somewhat explain the schedulers dividing the threads as such which is a good thing IMHO for AMD CPU's....even the old FX series. I hope MS refines this to get even better. As for whether using SMT or not is mostly a judgement call at this time since the Windows schedulers really do a good job of managing threads on it's own, IMHO w\ this many available physical CPU cores running CPU loads that can't even use all the physical CPU cores, much less the extra logical CPU cores, a user will get slightly better CPU latency performance improvement by disabling SMT to assist Windows schedulers in thread management when running medium to light CPU loads by actually using more of the available physical CPU cores than having Windows using SMT to effectively use FEWER physical CPU cores by loading these fewer CPU cores at a higher percentage load.......which is the MAIN reason why you'd want higher CPU frequencies to make up for this to maintain the same level of total CPU performance.....and also why Windows will park all these "unused" CPU cores by default. This goes for Intel's HEDT platform as well.....the major difference between the 2 now is CPU core overclocking ability & mem compatibility w\ Intel having the lead here for the time being............
Provided below are some snippets of the AHIII Video Settings & Ingame Settings, AMD Radeon Crimson driver settings & MSI AB graphs of this AMD Ryzen 7 1800X\Radeon R9 FuryX performance running AHIII as of this morning. Please note that this Ryzen 7 1800X CPU is only making use of 4-5 CPU cores max....3-4 CPU cores are pretty much on standby.
From all this I can see that the best AMD Ryzen CPU to get for gaming right now IMHO would be the AMD Ryzen 5 1600\1600X from a performance\price ratio......as most review sites have already laid out & depending upon how a user sets them up will perform a lot closer to Intel's I7-7700K CPU than some would admit.
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on June 11, 2017, 05:33:45 AM
Update:
Here is a little video of this new all Team Red box of mine featuring the new AMD Ryzen 7 1800X CPU\Radeon R9 FuryX graphics card. This was recorded using Win 10 Game DVR set for Standard video quality @ 60 FPS (Win 10 since updating to Creators Edition will not allow AMD's ReLive to run...).
Game was set up as per the snippets provided in prior post running at 2560 x 1440 res w\ MSI AB RTSS\HWINFO32 overlay running showing all vitals of this setup in real time as it ran under Win 10 Game Mode set up thru Win 10 Game Bar..............
Enjoy!
https://youtu.be/ZWOm-XIO6IA
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: 1701E on June 11, 2017, 09:08:21 AM
This was recorded using Win 10 Game DVR set for Standard video quality @ 60 FPS (Win 10 since updating to Creators Edition will not allow AMD's ReLive to run...).
For ReLive, are you running 17.6.1 Radeon Drivers? I just updated due to that very issue of ReLive not working for the longest time after W10 CE, but now it's back to working 100%. Mine simply wouldn't admit ReLive was installed before though so it may have been a different issue, but worth checking.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on June 11, 2017, 02:22:47 PM
For ReLive, are you running 17.6.1 Radeon Drivers? I just updated due to that very issue of ReLive not working for the longest time after W10 CE, but now it's back to working 100%. Mine simply wouldn't admit ReLive was installed before though so it may have been a different issue, but worth checking.
Hi 1701E,
Yes I'm running Crimson 17.6.1 drivers. ReLive was working just fine & was showing up in the Apps list until I updated my copy of Win 10 Home to the Creators Edition. After this was done, ReLive was removed from this list but it is still installed & accessible thru Radeon Settings but Win 10 won't allow it to execute.
I was gonna uninstall it, wipe all out & reinstall it to see if all this cleared up, but I also reasoned that since the XBox software (which includes the Game Bar, Game DVR & Game Mode) is embedded within Win 10 & cannot be uninstalled w\o going thru a lot of hoops in the background....if at all, I just decided to turn ReLive off in Radeon Settings & use Game DVR for the time being. I noted on the AMD site that this was an issue & the suggested workaround was to disable Game DVR..........
So did you just uninstall the entire Crimson driver suite then reinstall it to clear this up?
Appreciate any info given.
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: 1701E on June 11, 2017, 09:25:29 PM
I just went through AMD's auto-updater in the Radeon Settings and chose to Custom/Clean Install. Strangely it didn't ask me if I wanted to install ReLive like it use to do (Not an "option" anymore?), but it seemed to work. Back to looking like normal after that (was missing ReLive Tab in Radeon Settings), but a small downside is now when ReLive Replay kicks in it causes a small stutter.
Radeon Settings System Info just in case I have a slightly different version somewhere;
Quote
Radeon Software Version - 17.6.1 Radeon Software Edition - Crimson ReLive Graphics Chipset - AMD Radeon R9 200 Series Windows Version - Windows 10 (64 bit) System Memory - 16 GB CPU Type - AMD Ryzen 7 1700 Eight-Core Processor Radeon Settings Version - 2017.0606.1509.25443 Driver Packaging Version - 17.10.3211-170606a-314971E-CrimsonReLive Provider - Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. 2D Driver Version - 8.1.1.1599 Direct3D® Version - 9.14.10.01261 OpenGL® Version - 6.14.10.13476 OpenCL™ Version - 22.19.171.1 AMD Mantle Version - 9.1.10.0189 AMD Mantle API Version - 102400 AMD Audio Driver Version - 10.0.1.1 Vulkan™ Driver Version - 1.5.0 Vulkan™ API Version - 1.0.39
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on June 12, 2017, 01:18:47 PM
What is more amazing is that I haven't done a single thing to my 7700K and I get max settings in every game.
Not surprising based on what I've seen from gamer test sights. I checked prices for 7700K and was surprised to see them under $400.00. I thought they were twice that. :salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Denniss on June 13, 2017, 09:54:07 AM
old fashined CPU vs completely new architecture The latter needs some time to mature
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on June 15, 2017, 11:26:30 PM
Update:
At this time I've found the best CPU affinity setting for AHIII to make the most usage of all 8 CPU cores on this AMD Ryzen 7 1800X CPU. Since Win 10 Game Mode is using CPU core affinity to optimize game threads I've manually set the CPU core affinity for AHIII to use CPU cores 2,3,4,5 (AHIII game threads are run on the last 2 CPU cores in 1st CCX unit....this frees up CPU cores 0,1 for OS, drivers, background apps, etc & 1st 2 CPU cores in 2nd CCX unit which frees up the last 2 CPU cores to be used for context switching, extra thread execution, etc). Win 10 Game Mode then will "remember" this affinity setting & will reapply it each time AHIII is executed going forward.
When in this configuration AHIII runs very smooth & very responsive w\ overlay showing this CPU's usage % to be very flat & stable hovering between 12%-15% holding a steady 89.9 FPS (Asus MG279Q monitor RR is set here to maintain FreeSynch upper setting of 90 Hz....game using ingame vsynch.
All is functioning very well since the UEFI upgrade to F3c Beta for my Gigabyte GA-AX370 Gaming K5 mobo (AMD AGESA 1.0.0.6 firmware & EZ Overclock Tuner set to AUTO). GSkill FlareX 3200 DDR4 CL14 16Gb 8Gbx2 mem kit is running on XMP Profile 1 hitting all SPD settings @ 3200 freq w\o issue.
This AMD Ryzen 7 1800X CPU is 1 of the smoothest operating CPU's I've had the pleasure of using in a long time clocking between 3199 MHz-3702 MHz on all 8 CPU cores w\ an occasional uptick on CPU cores 0,1 to 4025 MHz.
Waiting on AMD RX Vega 10 GPU w\ 8Gb HBM2 mem to arrive............
:aok :salute
PS--Almost forgot....I also went in Powercfg.exe & reset the string for perfboostmode to 1 (enables AMD Turbo CORE to be fully active in the Windows Balanced Power Plan.
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: oboe on June 16, 2017, 05:14:10 AM
That sounds great Pudgie. Thanks to you and Vinkman and all the other trailblazers WRT tweaking Ryzen for optimum game play in AH. Pretty sure I want my next build to be Ryzen based, though that is a ways out and I will keep on eye on news and developments and Intel's reaction and pricing.
Found this yesterday - this Scotsman says its looking bleak for Intel: "Intel are about to pay the price of years of tech stagnation, lack of innovation and a previously-friendly tech press who finally woke up to their greed."
Anyway found it interesting.
Title: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Schwalbee on June 16, 2017, 11:08:00 AM
Can confirm what everyone else is saying .My Ryzen 5 1600 runs AH rock solid at the 75hz refresh rate of my monitor with about 5-10% usage paired with an Amd Radeon 290x
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: oboe on June 16, 2017, 11:56:23 AM
Can confirm what everyone else is saying .My Ryzen 5 1600 runs AH rock solid at the 75hz refresh rate of my monitor with about 5-10% usage paired with an Amd Radeon 290x
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Schwalbee, just curious, what memory chips are you using?
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Schwalbee on June 16, 2017, 12:05:50 PM
I just went through AMD's auto-updater in the Radeon Settings and chose to Custom/Clean Install. Strangely it didn't ask me if I wanted to install ReLive like it use to do (Not an "option" anymore?), but it seemed to work. Back to looking like normal after that (was missing ReLive Tab in Radeon Settings), but a small downside is now when ReLive Replay kicks in it causes a small stutter.
Radeon Settings System Info just in case I have a slightly different version somewhere;
After using Win 10's embedded XBox Game DVR for awhile I've decided to stick w\ it (using the Game Bar & Game Mode anyway) & so I didn't install ReLive when I upgraded to the latest AMD Crimson 17.6.2 drivers after a clean uninstall was performed.
Now Game DVR isn't quite as sophisticated as ReLive but it does a very good job of recording, especially when set up in the default settings for audio (128K) and FPS (30).
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on June 23, 2017, 02:40:39 PM
Update:
Here is a video from YouTube reviewer Son of a Tech on optimizing Win 10 specifically for AMD Ryzen CPU's (he was using the Ryzen 7 1800X):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAN3Zjm8xTM
The ones that he specifically mentions for Ryzen are the ones to pay attention to.
1. HPET. This is usually enabled by default in the UEFI for Ryzen CPU's but Win 10 itself isn't using it unless it is told to. AMD has provided a HPET batch file w\ Ryzen Master software that can be used to do this if you're using the profiles in Ryzen Master to set up your CPU\mem when Windows starts (you'll also be starting Ryzen Master software as well)...............
I had already done this 1 prior to seeing his video (got it from another 1) thru Command Prompt (admin) & at the prompt type this command if you don't intend to use Ryzen Master software but use the UEFI (or BIOS if you prefer) exclusively to set up the CPU\mem (like myself):
bcdedit /set useplatformclock true <enter>
Then exit & reboot your computer. After this is done Win 10 will always now be using the HPET timer w\ AMD Ryzen CPU's upon startup which speeds the CPU up.
2. AMD Ryzen Master software open while benchmarking. He says to always close this software before benchmarking (was using Cinebench R15) as it will slow the Ryzen CPU down. He doesn't say why, just says to close it.
I have made note that I think the reason why is due to the fact that AMD Ryzen Master software was written to use OpenGL API so Windows thinks this software is a "game" & will tie up the Ryzen CPU cores across Infinity Fabric slowing the CPU down if it is running in the background. I found this out thru my RTSS overlay as every time I open Ryzen Master software it triggers RTSS to run and the overlay shows that it is reading the OGL API that RM is using to instruct Windows to interpret the GUI calls to the graphics drivers. If you're also running a D3D game (or an app) w\ RM open in the background, you're causing issues which will slow the CPU down due to CPU core allocation instruction differences between the 2 API's.
Since I don't use Ryzen Master software running in the background while running any other games\apps I haven't noticed any ill effects but I can clearly see the potential conflicts if RM is open in the background..........unless CPU core affinity is applied to effectively "separate" the 2 "apps" from using the same CPU cores to process their threads on................
Just putting this out there for consideration.
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on June 24, 2017, 09:27:37 AM
1 more item.......................
With these new AMD AM4 mobos for AMD Ryzen\7th Gen AMD CPU's, to get the best experiences from these it will somewhat matter where devices are attached to these mobos to determine which path that they will communicate thru to reach the CPU...either direct to the CPU socket or thru the X370 chipset to the CPU socket.
To illustrate this here are provided below a couple of AMD AM4 X370 mobo block diagrams that show the typical mobo device connection design layout.
So on my Gigabyte GA-AX370 Gaming K5 mobo I have my SoundBlaster X7 USB DAC-AMP plugged into 1 of the USB 3.0 ports using the Gigabyte USB DAC UP 2 power regulation located in the USB cluster w\ the PS\2 header (which goes direct to the CPU), my Logitech G15 keyboard\Logitech Trackman Wheel trackball to 2 USB 3.0 ports in the USB cluster w\ the HDMI port (which goes direct to the CPU), my Samsung 950 Pro 512 Gb NVMe SSD in the M.2 slot (which goes direct to the CPU), my Sapphire Radeon R9 FuryX graphics card in the top PCI-E x16 slot (which goes direct to the CPU w\ full 16 lanes) & GSkill FlareX 16Gb 3200 DDR4 8Gb x 2 mem kit in the mem slots (which go direct to the CPU).
The only devices on my box that communicate thru the X370 chipset are the Intel LAN, the 2 Samsung 850 Pro SATA III SSD's (1 being used for pagefile duty only & 1 for storage...) & the Orico 7-port USB-to-PCI-E add-in card that I use w\ my CH USB HOTAS (installed in 1 of the PCI-E 1x slots that route thru the X370 chipset)
In this configuration all pertinent data moves the fastest due to having the lowest latency.....which makes for a very smooth computing operation. Out of all the reviewers\review sites I have visited, I have viewed only 1 reviewer that touched on this design aspect of AMD AM4 socket mobos.
Something else to consider if considering to go w\ a Ryzen setup.......
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on June 24, 2017, 10:10:09 AM
Here is another AM4 block diagram as used w\ the Asus Crosshair VI
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on June 25, 2017, 09:46:19 AM
Here is provided a snippet of the background setting changes as provided by Microsoft to make in Windows Powercfg.exe to the Balanced Power Plan to improve CPU response time for light to medium loads to achieve close to\the same level CPU performance as would be available using the High Performance Power Plan but still have the ability to reduce CPU power\frequency for power savings if desired.
This will need to be applied thru the Windows Command prompt w\ admin rights.
If you're not comfortable doing this thru the Command prompt then disregard.
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on June 25, 2017, 09:39:33 PM
Also some of Ryzen CPU's smoothness (this 1800X for sure) may be attributted to the SenseMI technology built in these CPU's...........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZRih6APtiQ
IMHO, this doesn't get enough coverage or notice as to it's effects on the computing experience.
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on July 14, 2017, 06:06:42 AM
Here is a video from Level 1 Techs on the question of Intel vs AMD in gaming using actual game titles in a blind test to note which is better.
Note: This is the kind of testing that I haven't noted anyone else attempting to do.
Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybF7r4rogHc
:salute
PS---Here is a followup video on this same subject in a more detailed format...........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11NfsMykyAk
Note what Wendell says concerning running his testing using an AMD Fury vid card vs using Nvidia 1080 series..........
Also note what he says about the stuttering captured in GTA V which is a Dx11 coded game.....looks the same as seen running AHIII under Dx11.............
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on July 22, 2017, 09:19:32 AM
Hi Vinkman!
How's it going?
Haven't heard from you in a while.................
Hope all is well.
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on July 24, 2017, 12:28:28 AM
Update:
Found this little issue in my mobo's UEFI after seeing it pop up randomly for some time (Gigabyte GA-AX370 Gaming K5 using F3c UEFI):
Every blue moon my box would stall during POST in a "locked state", either using the reset button to restart box or cycling power button to restart box would resolve issue, then my box would sometimes randomly hang during POST when performing a restart (warm boot) in which it would power itself off then power itself back on, sometimes a couple of times then start up as if nothing was wrong & not reset the UEFI (all settings were intact).
During a looksee in the UEFI after 1 of these episodes I noticed that when I had the UEFI set to start any storage drives in "UEFI only" (all my SSD's are configured w\ EFI partitions for this purpose & especially my Samsung 950 Pro NVMe PCI-E SSD) that the UEFI would not recognize my Sammy 950 Pro NVMe SSD under Peripherals, NVMe Configuration in my mobo's UEFI....says that no NVME SSD is present...............
That got me to thinking so I ran a test as follows:
I changed the setting under BIOS, Storage Boot Option Control from "UEFI only" to "Legacy only" (left all else as set), saved then went back into UEFI to check this on reboot............now my Samsung 950 Pro 512Gb NVMe PCI-E SSD is recognized & read under Peripherals, NVMe Configuration as well as under BIOS, #1 Boot Order this SSD now shows up in () besides the Windows Boot Manager as it should.
Got out of UEFI & booted into Windows............& I haven't had any more issues from this box! All bootups are clean w\ no issues, all warm boots are clean w\ no issues............all since making this setting change in UEFI. Doesn't make sense to me as this should've worked under UEFI only.......unless the ASCII coding is actually backwards in the UEFI...........
Oh well, doesn't matter now as since this little issue was resolved this AMD Ryzen 7 1800X\AMD R9 FuryX box is now running absolutely stable & crisp w\o issue.
Gonna look into this w\ Gigabyte to see if this was set up backwards or this storage boot option control needs to stay set for legacy only for proper operation............
FYI....................
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on July 24, 2017, 07:12:58 AM
Haven't heard from you in a while.................
Hope all is well.
:salute
Pudgie, My rig is running without issues. I haven't been flying that much as I was waiting for my new stick, which arrived last week. Now I need to get back in the virtual sky and practice with them. :salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Vinkman on July 24, 2017, 07:18:36 AM
Found this little issue in my mobo's UEFI after seeing it pop up randomly for some time (Gigabyte GA-AX370 Gaming K5 using F3c UEFI):
Every blue moon my box would stall during POST in a "locked state", either using the reset button to restart box or cycling power button to restart box would resolve issue, then my box would sometimes randomly hang during POST when performing a restart (warm boot) in which it would power itself off then power itself back on, sometimes a couple of times then start up as if nothing was wrong & not reset the UEFI (all settings were intact).
During a looksee in the UEFI after 1 of these episodes I noticed that when I had the UEFI set to start any storage drives in "UEFI only" (all my SSD's are configured w\ EFI partitions for this purpose & especially my Samsung 950 Pro NVMe PCI-E SSD) that the UEFI would not recognize my Sammy 950 Pro NVMe SSD under Peripherals, NVMe Configuration in my mobo's UEFI....says that no NVME SSD is present...............
That got me to thinking so I ran a test as follows:
I changed the setting under BIOS, Storage Boot Option Control from "UEFI only" to "Legacy only" (left all else as set), saved then went back into UEFI to check this on reboot............now my Samsung 950 Pro 512Gb NVMe PCI-E SSD is recognized & read under Peripherals, NVMe Configuration as well as under BIOS, #1 Boot Order this SSD now shows up in () besides the Windows Boot Manager as it should.
Got out of UEFI & booted into Windows............& I haven't had any more issues from this box! All bootups are clean w\ no issues, all warm boots are clean w\ no issues............all since making this setting change in UEFI. Doesn't make sense to me as this should've worked under UEFI only.......unless the ASCII coding is actually backwards in the UEFI...........
Oh well, doesn't matter now as since this little issue was resolved this AMD Ryzen 7 1800X\AMD R9 FuryX box is now running absolutely stable & crisp w\o issue.
Gonna look into this w\ Gigabyte to see if this was set up backwards or this storage boot option control needs to stay set for legacy only for proper operation............
FYI....................
:salute
Pudgie, I keep getting this annoying pop up box that tells me that Windows updates can't be performed because my hardware doesn't support it. When I go to the Read more, they tell me I need to upgrade to windows 10. I don;t want to upgrade to Windows 10. :neener:
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on July 24, 2017, 01:26:45 PM
Pudgie, My rig is running without issues. I haven't been flying that much as I was waiting for my new stick, which arrived last week. Now I need to get back in the virtual sky and practice with them. :salute
Good to hear Vinkman!
When AMD ships out Rx Vega 10 I'm gonna plan to get a Fractal Design Define R5 Silent Blackout Window case then transfer all components to this case then build a closed loop custom watercooled system to cool both the graphics card & CPU.....then I'll call it "finished" for a while..........
Have never built 1 so this will be my 1st.........
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on July 24, 2017, 01:28:19 PM
Pudgie, I keep getting this annoying pop up box that tells me that Windows updates can't be performed because my hardware doesn't support it. When I go to the Read more, they tell me I need to upgrade to windows 10. I don;t want to upgrade to Windows 10. :neener:
:noid :uhoh
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on August 03, 2017, 07:20:32 AM
Here is another video of my Team Red box (AMD Ryzen 7 1800X CPU\AMD Radeon R9 FuryX vid card) running AHIII Dx11 latest version using Win 10 Game Mode which is applying CPU affinity in Win 10 OS to manually set aside CPU core 4 in the 1st CCX, then CPU cores 5,6 and 7 in the 2nd CCX to use exclusively to process the AHIII game threads on then use Prio to set CPU priority for AHIII to High in Win 10 OS so AHIII game threads will get the highest percentage of CPU core processing time assigned on the CPU cores that any AHIII game threads are assigned to be processed. This setup ensures that AHIII game threads will get the maximum CPU core processing time on the dedicated CPU cores that are assigned to it by the OS so the game will run at it's absolute best under default Win 10 Balanced Power Plan that I modified thru Powercfg.exe to specifically increase CPU core response time under light to medium CPU loads w\ the min processor power % set at 70% to lock the low CPU frequency (clock speed) @ 3.2 Ghz thru AMD's Cool & Quiet CPU power\frequency control enabled in UEFI.
CPU is set up in UEFI in default configuration outside of SMT (simultaneous multithreading technology) being disabled & FuryX is set up in Radeon WattMan in default GPU power\frequency control configuration using Crimson 17.7.2 Global driver settings as attached below. AMD FreeSynch is enabled in Crimson driver as well as in my Asus MG279Q 27" Gaming Monitor using the Asus default monitor drivers which set the FreeSynch range at 35Hz-90Hz which meets the 2.5x threshold for AMD's FreeSynch LFRC (low frame rate compensation) to be enabled in the Crimson driver at 2560 x 1440 res. System mem used is GSkill FlareX 16Gb 8gb x 2 DDR4 3200 CL14 mem kit using the XMP profile SPD settings of 14-14-14-34-1T timings running at 3200 MHz frequency. This mem kit is specifically designed for operation w\ AMD Ryzen CPU's.
AHIII is set up in Video Settings as provided below. The in-game graphics settings are shown in the video.
I provided all this setup info to give context to the real time running data of my box's hardware you will see in the RTSS\HWINFO overlay while AHIII is running on it.
Enjoy!
https://youtu.be/7OugaKPBrxc
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on August 08, 2017, 08:48:40 PM
Here is another video of my box w\ the AMD Ryzen 7 1800X CPU set up thru the modified Windows Balanced Power Plan running AHIII w\ the CPU frequency locked at 2.2 Ghz w\ all settings set the same as in the prior video w\ the addition of tesselation being enabled & set to AMD Optimized. This setting puts an extra load on the CPU as well as the GPU when in use.
Enjoy!
https://youtu.be/lGTaFc_hpX8
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Adjuster on August 12, 2017, 09:04:33 PM
Following advice on the thread I started I have updated my spec (and budiet, this comes in at $2,340 aussie ) apologies for jumping on this one
Am I getting there ?
AMD Ryzen 7 1700 3.0Ghz 20MB AM4 Retail Box - With Fan None / Included Gigabyte AX370-Gaming K3 AM4 ATX Desktop Motherboard GeIL 16GB Kit (2x8GB) DDR4 SUPER LUCE White (Red LED) C15 3000MHz WD Green 120GB 2.5" SSD WD Blue WD20EZRZ 3.5" 2TB 64MB 5400RPM Desktop HDD Gigabyte GeForce GTX1080 Turbo OC 8GB GDDR5 Integrated - Onboard GamerChief Essent E101 Mid Tower Case Corsair RM750x 750W 80PLUS Gold Modular Power Supply
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on August 13, 2017, 03:48:54 AM
Following advice on the thread I started I have updated my spec (and budiet, this comes in at $2,340 aussie ) apologies for jumping on this one
Am I getting there ?
AMD Ryzen 7 1700 3.0Ghz 20MB AM4 Retail Box - With Fan None / Included Gigabyte AX370-Gaming K3 AM4 ATX Desktop Motherboard GeIL 16GB Kit (2x8GB) DDR4 SUPER LUCE White (Red LED) C15 3000MHz WD Green 120GB 2.5" SSD WD Blue WD20EZRZ 3.5" 2TB 64MB 5400RPM Desktop HDD Gigabyte GeForce GTX1080 Turbo OC 8GB GDDR5 Integrated - Onboard GamerChief Essent E101 Mid Tower Case Corsair RM750x 750W 80PLUS Gold Modular Power Supply
Hi Adjuster,
If I may ask, outside of playing AHIII, what are your planned usages for this setup? Video rendering, content creation, CAD work, etc? What would be a good ratio of this type of usage vs gaming? Say mostly gaming w\ some of the other items mentioned or mostly the other items w\ some gaming thrown in?
This info would help to give some better recommendations.
But to start off w\ a typical recommendation of what you have provided based on a best balanced approach.
1. The AMD Ryzen 7 1700 CPU is a good CPU to pick if you really want a good value on a 8-core CPU, but a better pick IMHO would be the AMD Ryzen 5 1600 6-core CPU as most games will only use up to 4-6 CPU cores max anyway, regardless of whether AMD\Intel. SMT will allow this CPU to process more than 6 threads (up to 12 if the game\app will make use of them) but this CPU will still do very well w\ the other uses due to the 12 thread capability. Essentially it is a Ryzen 7 1700 clocked slightly higher w\ 2 less cores for less money. If you're gonna be running 1080 res or higher this CPU will be more than enough. This CPU should also come w\ a CPU HSF (Wraith) included. The only difference between the X & non-X models is XFR is enabled w\ the X models & the X models are usually the better binned chips. 2. This Gigabyte GA-AX370 Gaming K3 is a good AM4 mobo as Gigabyte AM4 mobos have been getting good reviews for being well built & stable.....but w\ any AMD AM4 socket mobo, regardless of manufacturer, the very 1st thing you want to do is to check for or flash the UEFI (or BIOS if you prefer) to the latest version for the particular mobo to ensure that the latest AMD AGESA 1.0.0.6a firmware is being used (fixes mem compatibility w\ Ryzen CPU's). This mobo should have the F3 UEFI installed....if not then flash it. This X370 mobo is capable of true overclocking of CPU AND mem (some models will only allow OC to mem so check on this before buying if OC'ing is a preference) so this is covered w\ the Gaming K3 mobo. This mobo only has 2 PCI-E 3.0 x16 slots (to provide 2-way SLI\Crossfire graphics cards) in 8x\8x lane configuration so if you want a single graphics card to have the full 16 lanes DO NOT put anything in the 2nd slot or it will be cut to 8 lanes. This isn't an issue per se as far as graphics card performance goes at the moment but you do need to know this. If you want to install a PCI-E NVMe SSD on this board in the future then use the M.2 slot w\ a M.2 PCI-E SSD or a 2.5" NVMe SSD w\ a U.2\M.2 adapter. If you desire to use an audio interface (external USB sound device) then please use the yellow USB 3.0 slots w\ it as these 2 slots are specifically designed for these devices (Gigabyte USB DAC-UP2) to provide good, clean stable power regulation to a USB DAC-AMP. 3. As far as mem goes, the sweet spot for AMD Ryzen CPU's IMHO is 2667 & up w\ 3200 being the preferred frequency at this time. Any mem past 2667 is essentially OC'd mem (onboard CPU mem controller) & can be a crapshoot to get it working at rated speed....especially IF AMD's AGESA 1.0.0.6a firmware isn't installed in UEFI\BIOS. If you can swing it, get the GSkill FlareX 3200 DDR4 CL14 16Gb 8Gb x 2 mem kit instead as this mem kit was specifically designed for AMD Ryzen CPU's running on AMD X370\B350 chipset mobos & will usually load up using it's XMP SPD settings (14-14-14-34-1T timings @ 3200 frequency) w\o any fiddling. The main reason for faster mem w\ Ryzen is to get the most out of the CPU's Infinity Fabric interconnect performance (interconnect currently runs at 1\2 mem speed) to reduce CPU latency thus speeds up the CPU's processing capabilities. Since the advent of AMD Ryzen 9 Threadripper CPU's there are even better mem kits being available to get to 3600 frequency if desired. The Geil mem you posted should work @ 3000 but most likely only at 2933, which would be OK but get the non-LED version & save money.....unless you really like bling (you did mention that you wasn't interested in LED lighting). 4. As for these 2 drives I won't comment per se (I know TC doesn't like WD drives of any stripe) as I do know if you stick w\ the 16Gb of system mem you should be fine using the SSD as the boot drive (your box shouldn't be paging out to this SSD or even any HDD w\ that much system mem being used for the most part which is the best protection to have when using a SSD drive). I would recommend using a Samsung 850 Pro 2.5" SATA III SSD instead of the WD SSD as these are the best performance-wise at the moment (including longevity). There is some evidence that AHIII could encounter some issues if being run off a SSD but it will depend on which SSD\firmware being used so be aware. I'll defer the recommendation on the HDD to others. 5. The only player I knew that was using a large screen 4K TV as a monitor was Dobs running a Nvidia 980Ti graphics card & according to Dobs he was getting good performance from his setup (I think the TV was 4K @ 60Hz) so in theory a Nvidia 1070 & up should handle this to some acceptable degree, depending on the settings used. IMHO, the 3 things that a user needs to be real about when considering any graphics usage is what is most important, graphics imagery, FPS or both. Then AFTER making this decision 1st, start looking for the associated monitor\TV to use THEN after this is done start looking for the graphics card that can drive it ACCORDING to what you have decided at the start beforehand as this will determine the real costs. If the 4K TV is wanted then the graphics card choices are pretty much already defined......the base card will be the 1080 & up for Nvidia w\ the preference being the 1080Ti or Titan Xp. The only card AMD can put forth at this time is the Fury X which can run 4K @ 60 Hz but not near as well as the current Nvidia cards (you'll have to back off on AA & TF to min settings and reduce some graphics settings as well). If AMD is in the running then it's gonna have to be Rx Vega 10....most likely the AIO liquid-cooled version but I'd wait for the reviews to come out Monday on this card before considering it for 4K usage. 6. Please explain what you mean by "Integrated\Onboard"? I'll assume you're referring to sound? If so then no worries. With sound make sure that you're using the mobo onboard sound chip for playback\recording & not the HDMI sound chip on the graphics card unless you really know what you're getting into.
The rest is OK as far as I can see but you could get by w\ a smaller, high quality PSU, say around 650W range to save some more money.
This is for reference info on current AMD graphics cards..........
If anyone is interested in considering an AMD Rx Polaris or Rx Vega vid card I'd highly recommend either getting the AIO liquid-cooled version or getting the reference model & slap a waterblock on it for a custom loop watercooling kit (what I'm gonna do) or wait for the AIB versions to come out w\ better cooling solutions IF you want the absolute best performance from it. From my experience w\ my AMD graphics cards, good air cooling\watercooling is a MUST to squeeze the most out of them as it is important to maintain the GPU's operating temp within 10*C of the GPU's TDP thermal throttling threshold w\o exceeding it to allow AMD's PowerTune to optimize the GPU power output\regulation to the GPU so it can perform to it's best. This is due to the way AMD has designed\coded their GPU's w\ PowerTune & only good air HSF's\watercooling can effectively maintain this temp threshold consistently enough to consistently achieve maximum Radeon GPU performance. The biggest mistake most users are making w\ AMD GPU's from a performance perspective since the advent of Hawaii IMHO is trying to "cool" them down & in some aspects trying to overclock them w\o fully understanding what I've typed here. AMD's PowerTune GPU control is HIGHLY dependent on this GPU temp delta to properly calculate the necessary power wattage for the GPU work load(s) at hand & if you over cool a Radeon GPU you WILL be cutting power to it excessively regardless of the GPU work load causing them to not perform to their best. AMD's Radeon WattMan GPU power control is already tuned to do this so I would recommend to leave the settings in default and just set the power to +50% to give WattMan full power to use if needed then adjust GPU\mem clocks. I have a copy of AMD' engineering white paper on PowerTune & how this works and have tested this out on a R9 290X on air and this Fury X on water and have found this to be true. This is IMHO the MAIN reason why Fury X can't overclock as well as it could.....you'd need to alter the BIOS to get more out of these cause there IS more to be had....AMD won't allow users to tap into it. I believe AMD's Rx Vega is gonna have the same issue. If you followed the Gamers Nexus review on the Vega FE air-cooled card after they put an aftermarket waterblock on it to show the performance difference between the 2 cooling methods this is already made apparent. This is the big issue w\ AMD's GCN GPU architecture IMHO.
Well this is my rambling 2 cents to attempt to help out. Hope all this can be of some value to you.
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Adjuster on August 13, 2017, 06:27:19 AM
Pudgie
Fantastic response.
Great insight . I've realized for a couple of reasons that using the TV is great for my Xbox One but what I'll be doing on PC will need a desktop and monitor, pushing the budget once again :D So new conundrum on that aspect now.
It's gonna be a gaming rig AH, World of Tanks, FPS shooters etc
So I'll use your valuable knowedge and tweek the shopping list accordingly , saving on CPU and power might allow for a decent monitor.
Will be sticking with Onboard sound, long time since I added a Soundblaster card.
SSD for os only and everything else on HDD and I'll take Onboard your recommendation.
Will hunt around for the ram.
Once again thanks for taking the time to reply in such detail.
This community is awesome :rock
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Bizman on August 13, 2017, 06:41:33 AM
Adjuster, just so you know an SSD doesn't add any speed to your games. As you said, you're going to use it for OS only which is nice if you really need to save the extra minute at startup. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against new technology at all. I'm just saying that you can save an extra $50 at the cost of a pee pause at startup and use it for a monitor.
A word of caution: Don't skimp on the power supply! It's the most important component of them all. A poor PSU can fry your entire rig whereas a good quality one can even take some spikes from the power grid without any damage.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Adjuster on August 13, 2017, 07:53:38 AM
Adjuster, just so you know an SSD doesn't add any speed to your games. As you said, you're going to use it for OS only which is nice if you really need to save the extra minute at startup. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against new technology at all. I'm just saying that you can save an extra $50 at the cost of a pee pause at startup and use it for a monitor.
A word of caution: Don't skimp on the power supply! It's the most important component of them all. A poor PSU can fry your entire rig whereas a good quality one can even take some spikes from the power grid without any damage.
Thanks Wasn't sure about the SSD for os, seems to be the fad of the moment, to be honest I don't care about boot speeds, I grew up with cassette tape loads to a ZX Spectrum lasting 3 or 4 minutes only to fail at the last gap, so if it takes a few moments longer I don't care.
The spec list is off my local pc supplier Web page for a built system, just using it as a guide to get down and dirty building it myself . Nothing quite like firing it up first time and gething past POST to put a smile on your face. Hearing it go fizz however is another matter, lol.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Skuzzy on August 13, 2017, 10:34:10 AM
I consider an SSD an option, not a requirement. If you are walking the line on a budget, that would be the first thing to toss out.
When looking at power supplies, just realize most power supplies are made by a handful of companies for all the other companies. Seasonic is one of the largest power supply manufacturers around and they are the only ones who make what they sell.
If you insist on buying a supply with Corsair's name on it, or anyone else, then keep in mind they contract out power supply manufacturing and all offer is a name on the box.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: AAIK on August 13, 2017, 10:52:11 AM
I recommend the crucial MX300 for a cheap and solid SSD (if you want to go that direction).
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on September 06, 2017, 04:55:20 PM
Update:
After a lot of reading, then reading some more I found out that this AMD Ryzen 7 1800X CPU's technological innovations (Net Neural Prediction, Precision Boost, Pure Power, Smart Prefetch), part of the AMD SenseMI package, is active only when SMT is enabled. The only part of AMD's SenseMI package that will work w\o SMT being enabled is Extended Frequency Range.
Now I have been running this Ryzen 7 1800X CPU of mine w\ SMT disabled pretty much since I got it so I went in my system UEFI & enabled SMT then rebooted my box & went into MSI AB and reset my graphs to include the other 8 logical CPU cores in the same 2 CCX layout so now all 16 CPU logical cores (better thought of as 16 threads) are displayed. I then got on my CPU binary calculator to come up w\ the hexadecimal number to reapply CPU affinity to the same 4 physical CPU cores (will now be CPU cores 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15) then make the change in the location line syntax of my 2 Windows CMD-created shortcuts for AHIII to instruct Windows to set this up when AHIII starts up.
Then I went in & played AHIII Dx11 to observe this Ryzen running w\ all this active thru my overlay..............
Now I can say that I've witnessed this tech actually working under load & it's pretty impressive to me. My CPU's performance didn't drop off at all even while the CPU core speeds were cycling up & down on all the CPU cores that weren't carrying the game loads that kept the CPU usage above the 30% CPU usage parameter that I had set in Powercfg prior.....the 2 physical CPU cores that were being used above this threshold were continuously pegged at 3.7Ghz thurout.
This turned out better than I thought it would. Gonna run w\ this for a while to study it more..........
Will record a video of my Team Red box running w\ SMT enabled w\ RTSS\HWINFO32 overlay showing all this in operation in real time.
FYI........................
:salute
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
Post by: Pudgie on September 07, 2017, 12:44:01 AM
Here it is..............................
https://youtu.be/ze7ollWtnwg
Observe the individual CPU logical core usage % vs the 8 physical CPU core clock speeds vs the GPU data in the overlay to get the full effect of AMD's SenseMI in full operation.
Please note the GPU mem usage is over 1.7 Gb....indicating that this Fury X is under fairly high graphics setting loads as given below while running in this video.