Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Vermillion on November 02, 1999, 07:58:00 AM
-
Yep this is exactly what I was told in the arena yesterday.
Me and another Rook (nice winging Snippy) acting as impromptu wingmen, were in the vicinity of the bishop held f21, looking to catch some helpless victim on climbout and pounce on them.
We caught a 109 just far enough away from the field that he couldn't run to the ack, and it was an excellent fight. And yes the pilot (who I think I have seen from WB's)was a good pilot who made it a very interesting fight.
The biggest problem was that about every 5-8 seconds or so his plane would get a substantial warp and dislocate about 500-700 yards. Not an intentional warp, just looked like a bad connect. And both my wingie, and a third pilot who arrived late but with alt (he had a very good view of the fight) commented on the very same thing. Eventually we shot him down, and I got the assist.
So, I told him on private that he seemed to be warping a little. No response. So I repeated the same thing over channel 1. Again no response.
Well, me and the other two pilots started to head back towards our own base since many Bishop reinforcements were coming onto the scene, with significant alt advantages. Unfortunately we got tangled up and couldn't disengage, and played a battle of hit and run with a couple of other Bishops.
And guess what, after a few minutes, here comes this 109 blinking in and out from f21. Yep it was him, but actually worse on this sortie.
After the battle (he nailed me this time,but mainly cause his countrymen pinned us down and we could extricate ourselves) I told him on channel 1 that he was VERY warpy, and truthfully he was.
His response(quote):"I'm not warpy, I'm just good"
So as I am falling out of my computer chair laughing , I told him that other pilots had seen him blinking in and out, but he could take or leave the advice.
His response(quote):" I wasn't blinking, those were my muzzle flashes you were seeing."
Of course me being a smart ass, my response to that was "Oh so your 109 has muzzle flashes from its tail?, chilli for dinner??"
And I left it at that, knowing it would not solve anything by continuing.
But I have to pass on one last little comment. Buddy (you know who you are), you might be good, and yes your probably better than me and can beat me in a 1v1 duel.
But please check the attitude at the door, because one thing is for certain, just because your a hot stick dont' mean your connect doesn't suck.
------------------
Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), **MOL**, Men of Leisure,
(http://web.mountain.net/~arringto/emote/Snoopy.gif)
-
>His response(quote):"I'm not warpy, I'm just good"
Instant classic verm.
Another intereting thingy is the effects of the stick stirring code. It seems you can sorta tell the guys that are first attempting it, and then the effects on their aircraft once they do. The plane sorta hovers in odd attitudes. Pretty easy targets then.
<g>
Poetic justice.
-Surfer
=<XXX>= Tres Equis
-
The telecom infrastructure in place at hitech so far is pretty limited, combine that with a server that doesn't seem to handle too many in one area very well and you've got major warps. It's frustrating for all....breaking one guys balls 'cause he's warpin isn't gonna do anyone any good. What do u expect him to do? Reconnecting wont solve it, perhaps he could spring for some new digital lines for hitech? What the hell do u want him to say...gee, thanx for pointing out that very obvious fact....I was wonderin' why everyone was movin so fast all of the sudden? You an ur buddies just ganged up on him..while he was prolly lower than you...u mention he was near his base...couldnt have had much time to climb or gain e. So, now after u guys gang bang him w/ an alt advantage to boot, you want him to apologize to you for warping..something he cant control. He was polite..I'd have told u to take a hike.
CRASH
-
Crash, what you say about the connects is true to a certain point, and I agree with you.
And Yep, we double teamed him with advantage (not exactly a gang bang), but that doesn't excuse him warping.
Using advantage in aerial combat (altitude, numbers, and plane characterisitics) is the name of the game, and was the situation in real life.
Personally my background is from WB's, AW, and I have tried out FighterAce, and Flying Circus. In not a single game has the etiquette been any different.
If your warping and you can't do anything about it, by changing ISP's or routes, or cleaning up your own connect, you shouldn't be flying. Its that simple. Take a few min out and see if the net clears up, its common courtesy.
I don't know you or your background, but if you know of any online games where its different please point them out to me.
Again, just becuase someone is good (or more commonly, think of themselves as good) it doesn't relieve you from the etiquette of the game and common courtesy. That simple (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), **MOL**, Men of Leisure,
(http://web.mountain.net/~arringto/emote/Snoopy.gif)
-
Been into the multi player thing for years...started on Airwarrior dos ....but that aint important.
So basically what your saying is that if someone cant get as good a connect as you, they shouldn't play. If you have to deal with the same net problems that we all have to deal with, then we shouldn't play because you're finding it difficult to double team a low bandit....one that may have just upped from his base. Vulchin a little maybe? And now you want to preach about net ettiquete? Maybe exclude people who live in areas with an older telecom infrastructure? What's next..maybe only cable modems allowed?
I'm trying to see the relevance in ur objections to someone warping, but all I'm hearing is alot of childish whining about net realities that no player can control.
I've got no problem with you shootin the guy down..even it was close to his base and could questionably be called a vulch..and I've got no problem with using ur adavantage, thats what the game is all about, but I think it's rediculous for you to be looking for him to leave the game or apologize to you for warping.
CRASH
-
I am on a standard 56k modem, in a rural area, so don't assume I am on a high speed connect myself. But I do take pains to use ISP's (I have two for just this reason) with good delay's to the sites that are important to me.
Do I think there is a minimum acceptable level of connection? Yes, I do.
Being an old DOS AW pilot, I wouldn't think that players asking one who is warping to try and do something about it, isn't anything new.
But I guess we are just going to have to disagree on this one.
------------------
Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), **MOL**, Men of Leisure,
(http://web.mountain.net/~arringto/emote/Snoopy.gif)
-
Do I think there is a minimum acceptable level of connection? Yes, I do.
So Verm, what do YOU see as the minimum acceptable level of connection?
Careful, lots of us beta pilots from places other than the USA. I'm on perhaps the best ISP in my country (in terms of access times to the US/packet loss etc), and still only dream of getting sub-500ms connects.
Not a flame Verm, but just a pilot who gets pretty tired of some US guys complaining cuz they can't get a sub 100ms connect (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
C.O. Phoenix Squadron
www.users.bigpond.com/afinlayson/index.htm
'feel the heat .......'
-
Because my focus has been VVS-type for some time, I've had quite a few squaddies from outside the US. From as far as Moscow, St.Petersburg and Alma-Alta (Kazakistan). Out there you are happy to get trace times of 600ms. It would be unfortunate to penalize such players, because of their geographical location.
OTOH, the guy originally in question certainly has an attitude (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
------------------
129 IAP VVS RKKA
-
Jeykll, Leonid come on now guys (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Where did you guys get the opinon I was on some sort of "low ping time" crusade.
I don't have a "you must have a less than XXX ms connection or else" opinon.
All I ask for, and most others I might add, is that you have a connection that allows you to play in the arena without continuous significant warps.
FYI Ping times can be as high as 800ms or more, and as long as your packet loss is low, you will not warp.
You can also have a DSL or Cable connection with a 60ms delay, but if you start getting 30% packet loss (or more) somewhere, you will warp like a firefly on a summer night.
Its the clean route that is critical.
------------------
Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), **MOL**, Men of Leisure,
(http://web.mountain.net/~arringto/emote/Snoopy.gif)
-
I know I can find another reason I cannot shoot straight in this discussion somewhere besides the fact I cannot shoot straight. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
Damn Ghostrider! This bogey is all over me!!
-
I don't think it is unreasonable at all to ask a player to log or refrain from combat if his connection is lousy.
It is a multiplayer environment: a player's bad connection doesn't just affect him but every other player that can see the plane. If he is warping all the time he is ruining other people's experiences for his own sake of enjoyment.
I'm not suggesting that there be a minimum latency requirement by any means, but make sure to optimise one's connections. Verm is quite right, latency isn't the killer, but packet loss. Change your modem settings to be optimised for game play, not for surfing. Find the ISP with the best connection to the game you want to play.
If you are warping and people tell you so try and avoid combat temporarily until things clear up. Things will hopefully improve once HTC gets the T1 line and the server is better able to cope.
If you know that you are warping and you still seek engagements knowing full well it is difficult for others to defend against you, and more importantly attack you, then that is just plain selfish. You are having fun at the expense of another's frustration.
I'm not saying not to play by any means, but show a little restraint and respect for others when you know you are causing problems. Hopefully things will improve and as the technology gets better at the host you will no longer have to consider that you are ruining someone else's experience.
Recently I have seen the anonymity of the Internet and on-line games be an excuse for truly abhorrent behaviour (though I don't classify unintended warping in this category (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ). If you went to a party and were ruining everyone else's time by your behaviour, don't you think it would be a short time before you were asked to curtail your actions? Wouldn't you feel it was necessary to do so if many people asked you to? Don't let the fact that you are behind a monitor change your behaviour -- you are still dealing with human beings on the other end.
Cheers,
------------------
phaetnAT
Aces High Alpha Tester
-
I never thought for a minute you were on a low ping time crusade verm (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But I'm truly interested in finding out what is regarded as a 'minimum connect'. Playing on a 500ms+ connect can be frustrating at times. Netlag is just so much worse than that experienced by players with better connects. On defence, you really have to anticipate where your enemy's nose will be pointing 2 seconds in the future in order to avoid being hit. And flying in a buff, and being subjected to high speed passes, is truly difficult. By the time you see that con within guns range (on your FE), he's already closed to sub-500yds on his FE and is pounding on you big-time (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
So c'mon guys (particularly US players). What kind of connect do you regard as 'unplayable'?
Just interested to find out how much of a disadvantage we non-US players have (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
C.O. Phoenix Squadron
www.users.bigpond.com/afinlayson/index.htm
'feel the heat .......'
-
I think anything over 400ms hurts gameplay (other planes shoot you while pointed away, and they see you pointed away when you're shooting them), and packet loss over 5% causes lots of warps. Also, if the variation in ping times is more than 15-20% (your pings go from 300 to 400 then back to 300...) that can also cause some very odd looking manuvers that hurt gameplay.
IMHO of course, partially because my reflexes are calibrated off zero ping times, zero packet loss, and infinite framerate.
------------------
eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!
-
Hey EAGL, I finally developed my film from the Con in August. I have a great shot of you FUNKY, and OZDS. Funky has the most peculiar look on his face. The kind of look that someone makes when they first hear about Stimpy beer :-). It's a heck of a candid. I'll try to get it scanned.
val
------------------
Scott (val) Valline
Dweebs of Death
-
well while on the subject...... for those who actualy dont know... heres a few tips.
unplug ALL phones and devices from the line your computer is on (this means the line sharing the phone number). I got myself a seperate line JUST so I could solve a few problems in connectiong. it also frees up the phone (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) .
keep your computer to jack line as short as possible. 5 - 8 ft is max! (about 1.75 - 2.75 meters for those using metrics). here I routed a line strait to my outside box so no jack and no small house hold line.
use your phone company's free line backer plan (if you have it) its like 50 cents a month. have them come out and test ALL jacks and connections. you may have to tell them you get static or other line noise on the phones to get them to cover it. some older areas still use a data filter and it may need replaced.. computers and internet seems to degrade them much faster.... since you cant do it... use teh phone company... what else are you paying them for? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
a program you can try is MTU Speed. you can down load it at www.tucows.com (http://www.tucows.com) (may still need to down load both versions as the second is only upgrade for the first). 2 options to make it simple.... most can just hit optimum (sp?) then save. if it gets funny on ya reset default then just change your MTU setting to 576 (also call your ISP and find out what THEY say is optimum, as they may be differant!)
the first two suggestions didnt drop my ping through the floor but did make it a touch more stable and less dropped connections. the MTU speed helps ALOT as I had pings from 600 - 1200 and differant each second (warp city) now I get pings to MOST games at about 230 ms and doesnt go more then 6ms either way of it.
-
eagl -
Actually, you don't have infinite frame rate in reality.
I think the subliminal message in the theater thing proved that humans cannot typically percieve anything higher than 40 FPS or so.
So reality could have an FPS of 60 or so and nobody would notice it !
So....is time/space continous ? or a series of discrete 'frames' ?????
JHL
-
That DEEP man
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
------------------
Jumpin Jesus on a pogo stick! Everybody knows a burrow owl... lives... in a hole... in the ground!
-
leonid: "Because my focus has been VVS-type for some time, I've had quite a few squaddies from outside the US. From as far as Moscow, St.Petersburg and Alma-Alta (Kazakistan). Out there you are happy to get trace times of 600ms. It would be unfortunate to penalize such players, because of their geographical location."
Yesterday in WB I came across foxx (flying a 190 of all things - VVS, sort yourselves out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)) - he was warpy, I told him so on 100, he disengaged and went back to F24. Later avin (his CO?) told me on private the foxx went to relog.
We all suffer from poor connects now and then and it's a question of one's respect for others enjoyment of the game (WB or AH is irrelevant) whether to continue warping or seek better connect...
------------------
-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF
-
It's pretty much been beaten to death:
Lag: inevitable. High ping times suck, especially for maneuvers, but there's nothing you can do about it.
Packet Loss: this is what causes warps. when it gets bad, you shouldn't be playing. If you're any good, when you get high packet loss, you stop playing in frustration. It really sucks when the only kills you can get are when someone warps in a slow, straight line, and the only time you get killed is when your warp does the same.
I'm currently stuck on a LAN in the eastern med. During the day, I ping the US at around 6-700 ms. At night, and especially on weekends, it's more like 200 ms.
The lag shift really screws up my maneuvering (Wasn't it McGwire who at least used to bat much better during the day?): during daylight hours, I have to react differently, especially when playing Australians. Then, when the daytime overload reaches crit. levels, I get packet loss. Nature's way of telling me to get to work.
We all know when our connection goes to pot; it's not about ping times, or where in the world you are (although it would help if the rest of the world got the REALLY HUGE BANDWIDTH amurricans seem to have).
-
I can personaly say not ALL Americans have a huge band width. fair ping time yes. steady yes. heck I ping my server at higher times then what some of these high grade ISP guys get after 12+ hops!
btw way I can awnser the physilogical question. time is both continous and framed... it depends on when I have a pinched nerve causing a spasm or not :Þ