Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Vraciu on March 16, 2017, 08:50:02 PM
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This P-51D was the mount of Maj. Howard "Deacon" Hively while he was the CO of the 334FS, 4FG from June-Aug 1944. It is the only 4FG P-51D to have been painted in olive drab. (At least that I am aware of.) The photo seems to indicate the black stripes on the top of the wing were painted over. I've presented it here just prior to that event. I can't decide if that's the right choice so please feel free to voice your preference.
Deacon served continuously from 1 September 1941 until the end of the war in 1945. His adventures (including the first shuttle mission to Russia) are too numerous to list here, but are well worth a look. http://www.americanairmuseum.com/person/96835
Hively was credited with 14.5 enemy aircraft destroyed. He was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross, the Distinguished Flying Cross with six Oak Leaf Clusters, the air Medal with seven Oak Leaf clusters, and the Purple Heart.
(http://www.americanairmuseum.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/media/media-14421.jpeg?itok=focU2UVF)
I just realized I forgot a few things before posting this, but they won't affect the input I am looking for from the group. Special thanks to Lyric1 for his help in interpreting the photo I sent him. I send one and he sends back half a dozen with very detailed observations. I don't know how he does it. Any errors are mine, not his.
SORRY FOR THE SLIGHT PIXELATION OF THE SCREENSHOTS.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27016)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27018)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27020)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27022)
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More...
Once again I may need to bump up the shine on the OD and insignia. I am also soliciting input for that, too, please.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27024)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27028)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27026)
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:aok
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:aok
Thanks, bro. Hopefully it is close to what you expected. I still need to add the paint wear to the belly. I forgot about that. *facepalm*
Here it is with your painted over (upper) wing and tail stripes. Can't decide which way to go...
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27034)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27032)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27036)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27030)
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Looks pretty good.
As for the black stripe, it looks to me to be fully present in the photo and not painted over. You should chip it off on the flaps like in the photo.
I don't think you need to add any more shine to the painted portions either. The paint in the photo looks pretty flat.
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I really think American planes look cooler in OD. Nice work, Vraciu.
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Looks pretty good.
As for the black stripe, it looks to me to be fully present in the photo and not painted over. You should chip it off on the flaps like in the photo.
I don't think you need to add any more shine to the painted portions either. The paint in the photo looks pretty flat.
You could be right on the stripes. However, there are a couple of sources that say they were eventually painted over. I guess it can break either way. Not sure which looks better... :headscratch:
The flap is a bit inconclusive. It could be melting ice/snow coupled with a hole in the photo. That's another headscratcher as the airplane didn't have white stripes...so what are we seeing? Metal?
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I really think American planes look cooler in OD. Nice work, Vraciu.
Thanks man. Someone said they wanted more OD P-51Ds so I managed to scrounge up a couple. We shall see!
I'm with you. I prefer the OD. :salute
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You could be right on the stripes. However, there are a couple of sources that say they were eventually painted over. I guess it can break either way. Not sure which looks better... :headscratch:
I think it looks better with the Black stripes, breaks things up a little bit.
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I think it looks better with the Black stripes, breaks things up a little bit.
Leaning that way myself.
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A lot of work needs to be done on your lighting effects.
HiTech
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A lot of work needs to be done on your lighting effects.
HiTech
I'm all ears.
The airplane is flat OD with a NMF belly. I don't know what else you want here, HT, but I am willing to try. I actually made it more specular than I think it should be because of previous objections, now that's incorrect? :headscratch:
I just spent all week walking around museum display aircraft. Some are restored perfectly and are COMPLETELY FLAT. No shine whatsoever, including an SBD (the national insignia on which has absolutely no reflection of light from any angle).
I'm told my effects look good by some but by you they don't--and that's what counts, ultimately. Which way do I need to adjust them?
Do I need some sort of gradient in the spec maps from light to dark on the curved portions of the airplane?
:headscratch:
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Spec Maps...
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When I look at your screen shots, I have no idea where the light is coming from.
HiTech
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When I look at your screen shots, I have no idea where the light is coming from.
HiTech
:headscratch: Each one has a visable shadow.... Looks great Vraciu. I like the washed out painted over wing stripes better. great work thus far sir!
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When I look at your screen shots, I have no idea where the light is coming from.
HiTech
Are you talking this vs this or the in-game shots?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27044)
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Devil, is this closer to what you had in mind? Which of the two is better?
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:headscratch: Each one has a visable shadow.... Looks great Vraciu. I like the washed out painted over wing stripes better. great work thus far sir!
Thanks, man. I expect to get some criticism, of course, but compliments are always appreciated!
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Devil, is this closer to what you had in mind? Which of the two is better?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27046)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27048)
Bottom looks better. Now just change the actual color to something a little darker and bluer be look more like metal.
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Bottom looks better. Now just change the actual color to something a little darker and bluer be look more like metal.
Okay. Will try it.
I just did a darkening to the ENV map as well. Maybe this is what Hitech was getting at, I dunno. It makes the shadowing more stark.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27052)
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I think we are close... Not sure which looks better.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27056)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27058)
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I like the top one.
I also noticed something else, it also applies to Horse's Itch: You have a large gray streak in the starboard fuselage above the wing join. It looks odd.
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I like the top one.
I also noticed something else, it also applies to Horse's Itch: You have a large gray streak in the starboard fuselage above the wing join. It looks odd.
That's an exhaust stain. Supposed to be any way. :D I stole it from a photo of E9-V. Not sure what makes it turn gray IRL but that's what it is. I will adjust it or eliminate it. :salute
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I also noticed something else, it also applies to Horse's Itch: You have a large gray streak in the starboard fuselage above the wing join. It looks odd.
Fixed.
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I figured it was an exhaust stain, but it looked too thin and too opaque at that position. Also, you had it only on one side.
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I figured it was an exhaust stain, but it looked too thin and too opaque at that position. Also, you had it only on one side.
Yeah, it's a carryover from another plane. I darkened it.
Also I desaturated the red on the nose and tail.
I've got a few tweaks to the paint chips and cowl lines to do then I'll post some more screen shots.
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Some factory lines in the 40's.
Found an article where the poster showed a progression of the wing ageing over months of use. Clean from the factory the panels are not visible nor the rivets. As the wing flexes from use you start seeing the rivets as faint dimples with angled light on the surface. The panel lines pick up stains, but are still filled but have become visible lines due to the stains.
So if you do a factory fresh the wings have no lines or rivets but, even aged the lines and rivets don't look like other wings with no puttying and filling.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/hurk130/2779P51_walkaround_4.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/hurk130/2779P51_walkaround_6.jpg)
(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/tclark5283/P_51D_Puttied_Wing.jpg)
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This image on the wings is what I would expect for a mat/non shiny surface.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27056)
HiTech
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This image on the wings is what I would expect for a mat/non shiny surface.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27056)
HiTech
I contend a matte surface is MUCH flatter than the above.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27065)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27067])
If what I posted is considered matte then I am at a total loss.
Gonna take a look at Skuzzy's spec map. Be right back.
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That image is not in the Sun.
Here is a flat black car in the Sun.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27069)
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That image is not in the Sun.
Here is a flat black car in the Sun.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27069)
That car looks semi-matte to me.
The SBD I photographed is in direct high powered lighting on top and ambient sunlight on one side. It has zero gloss to it from any angle. Certainly nothing like I am being told it should be.
These are in direct light. With the exception of the semi-flat panel on the S-2 the rest remain flat. They do not exhibit anything close to what Hitech is saying about my P-51 above. If the above is flat paint then metal is going to be pure white. The nose of the Hornet is a prime example. The black remains charcoal. It doesn't flare to white. It is nowhere CLOSE to shiny or reflective. It's dull.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27090)
Not being argumentative here, just pointing out what I see. I just passed a park bench in direct sunlight. It's charcoal gray and the light does not wash it out to white.
Just got home so I am going to take a look at your mods to the spec files. Be right back.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27087)
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This image on the wings is what I would expect for a mat/non shiny surface.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27056)
HiTech
Other than tone they look quite similar. That and the default is lumpier than mine.
:headscratch:
I'm trying to get this right... About the only thing I can think of is to go whiter on the NMF parts in the Spec Map.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27092)
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That car looks semi-matte to me.
The SBD I photographed is in direct high powered lighting on top and ambient sunlight on one side. It has zero gloss to it from any angle. Certainly nothing like I am being told it should be.
These are in direct light. With the exception of the semi-flat panel on the S-2 the rest remain flat. They do not exhibit anything close to what Hitech is saying about my P-51 above. If the above is flat paint then metal is going to be pure white. The nose of the Hornet is a prime example. The black remains charcoal. It doesn't flare to white. It is nowhere CLOSE to shiny or reflective. It's dull.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27090)
Not being argumentative here, just pointing out what I see. I just passed a park bench in direct sunlight. It's charcoal gray and the light does not wash it out to white.
Just got home so I am going to take a look at your mods to the spec files. Be right back.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27087)
You are not catching much specular in that image. The car image is a perfect example of the full range of specular on flat paint. Yes, that is flat paint. However, it is not oxidized. It is still fresh.
Catch the Sun reflecting directly off the surface of a large area of the plane, then you have a good shot of specular.
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You are not catching much specular in that image. The car image is a perfect example of the full range of specular on flat paint. Yes, that is flat paint. However, it is not oxidized. It is still fresh.
Catch the Sun reflecting directly off the surface of a large area of the plane, then you have a good shot of specular.
My offer still stands. I will meet you any time you're up for it at the CAF Museum or Cavanaugh Flight Museum and show you exactly what I'm talking about. Lunch is on me.
I spent hours looking at airplane's in direct sunlight on that flight deck. They do not all flare up like you guys are insisting. I spent hours looking at all different types of paint colors, textures, etc.. in every conceivable form of light from early morning until late afternoon with nothing on my mind other than AH3 skins.
Dark bark on a tree in direct light does not turn white. Neither does truly flat paint. I will continue to keep looking because I am determined to get this right.
That said, I don't care at this point, I just want to get my skins in the game. If you want them to look like anything from a McDonald's sign to the inside of a cave that's totally fine by me. But I'm still needing a bit of advice on the spec maps.
Thanks for your help thus far. :salute
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Not catching specular in which image? The belly shot?
You want it to shine MORE????? :bhead
Let me try that then...
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Some factory lines in the 40's.
Found an article where the poster showed a progression of the wing ageing over months of use. Clean from the factory the panels are not visible nor the rivets. As the wing flexes from use you start seeing the rivets as faint dimples with angled light on the surface. The panel lines pick up stains, but are still filled but have become visible lines due to the stains.
So if you do a factory fresh the wings have no lines or rivets but, even aged the lines and rivets don't look like other wings with no puttying and filling.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/hurk130/2779P51_walkaround_4.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/hurk130/2779P51_walkaround_6.jpg)
(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/tclark5283/P_51D_Puttied_Wing.jpg)
I neglected to say thanks for posting these. Always good to have reminders. :salute
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The skin looks good Vraciu but I'd like to suggest altering the paint chips so they aren't the same as your last skin.
As regards lighting effects I downloaded the effect maps you posted earlier to get the levels you are using in order to compare against mine. Your grey shades painted/metal are E=22/117, P=36/135 and S=34/129. Mine from the last P-47N I did are E=11/81, P=25/92 and S=49/127. So I am using a lot less environmental reflection than you, reduced sharpness on the power reflections and more specular on the painted areas, about the same on the metal. The effect of all this would be to make solar reflections more powerful on the painted areas but also more spread out, to prevent them looking too glossy. Also there will likely to be a bigger difference in shade from the areas in sunlight and in shadow on my skins, which I believe was the basis of HT's complaint.
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The skin looks good Vraciu but I'd like to suggest altering the paint chips so they aren't the same as your last skin.
As regards lighting effects I downloaded the effect maps you posted earlier to get the levels you are using in order to compare against mine. Your grey shades painted/metal are E=22/117, P=36/135 and S=34/129. Mine from the last P-47N I did are E=11/81, P=25/92 and S=49/127. So I am using a lot less environmental reflection than you, reduced sharpness on the power reflections and more specular on the painted areas, about the same on the metal. The effect of all this would be to make solar reflections more powerful on the painted areas but also more spread out, to prevent them looking too glossy. Also there will likely to be a bigger difference in shade from the areas in sunlight and in shadow on my skins, which I believe was the basis of HT's complaint.
I will definitely change the paint chips as you suggest. Unfortunately, I have nothing to go by other than the two photos and neither show the leading edge. I also need to work on the flaps once I figure out what's going on with them. Looks like it could either be melting ice sliding off or white paint there...
Thank you for those numbers. The underside is NMF according to two sources just so we are clear on that point. The photo seems to suggest that as well.
How do you guys wind up with those shades? Is it a deliberate target or are you just eyeballing it and that's what you wind up with?
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That's just what I've ended up with for now and I usually fiddle around with those numbers based on how shiny any particular aircraft looks in the source photos. So if I were doing a NMF Mustang I'd probably make the silver painted wings a bit less shiny than the bare metal areas, but a lot shinier than the olive drab.
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That's just what I've ended up with for now and I usually fiddle around with those numbers based on how shiny any particular aircraft looks in the source photos. So if I were doing a NMF Mustang I'd probably make the silver painted wings a bit less shiny than the bare metal areas, but a lot shinier than the olive drab.
I'll try it. Just gotta' figure out WTH I need to do with each layer...
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The E map handles reflecting colors and shapes. The S map only handles the reflection of light. For dull metal you want a light S but a dark E. Polished metal would be light for both.
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The E map handles reflecting colors and shapes. The S map only handles the reflection of light. For dull metal you want a light S but a dark E. Polished metal would be light for both.
Got it.
Still can't figure out what's wrong with my painted surfaces. I understand what Greebo is saying in terms of numbers, but I don't get the effect problem. I don't see an issue with my shadows on my OD painted skins at all. The shadows fall where they should.
It would help if what I see in the viewer is what I see in the game, but it isn't. The light in the viewer makes things seem to wash out differently than the game does. Does the viewer represent max light?
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I never use the skin viewer, so I don't know. I examine my skins in game or in the film viewer.
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I never use the skin viewer, so I don't know. I examine my skins in game or in the film viewer.
I have to do both because the game launch takes forever when all I want to do is see if I got two panel lines to meet. But I don't blame you one bit.
I think the viewer in AH2 was closer to what was seen in the game than the AH3 viewer. I am sure Hitech or Skuzzy mentioned what the light in the viewer equates to, but I forgot where it was said.
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I use the film viewer for checking alignments and such. much quicker.
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I use the film viewer for checking alignments and such. much quicker.
How on earth is that quicker? You must have some magic powers. :noid
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It's quicker than launching the game every time.
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It's quicker than launching the game every time.
Okay I need to learn this Jedi Mind Trick.
For the life of me I cannot fathom what you do. The again, I haven't used the film Viewer in two years--and never in AH3.
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Fly your skin offline, even in it's most basic state. Just make sure that the folder is correct, so you can change or add files as you go.
In your flight, set your time to about 10am and try to get many different angles off the Sun. Making fast attacks on the drones is a good way to do this with many rolls and loops. Takes all of 15 minutes to set up a good film. Also, before you take off, shut down the engine long enough to stop the spinner and drop your flaps and re-raise them. End flight and name your film something easy to pick out. I always use "(plane) TEST" like "109G-2 TEST"
Now in the film viewer it is much easier to move around the plane and get close up to details and see exactly how they look in the game - especially important when adding simulated bumps.
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I will have to try it.
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Okay, so I am working with a lighter spec map for the NMF. I have varied it across the wing. The right side (without the insignia) is the control. Moving right to left I brightened the spec map gray shade in increments 1-13.
I took shots with varying light to see what gets picked up. Thoughts?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27101)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27103)
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Is this just for the _S map?
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Is this just for the _S map?
Yes, sir. The image below is the one Hitech said looks like painted gray and Skuzzy said was not picking up much specularity. I took the Spec map (p51d_s) and brightened it then put in a gradient in blocks from right to left, getting brighter as we go (previous post). I will have to clean it up and adjust panel lines but I need to nail down the specularity before I do so.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27092)
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Now you are getting cleaver! Making yardsticks, so to speak, for self reference also helps others nail down what they are trying to communicate. Glad you are still at it!
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Now you are getting cleaver! Making yardsticks, so to speak, for self reference also helps others nail down what they are trying to communicate.
Desperate times call for desperate measures!!! :old:
Glad you are still at it!
Thanks man. A lot of you guys talked me off the ledge so to speak. Thanks for putting up with me in the meantime!
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Is this skin using a very dark power map on the metal? What I'm seeing compared to the default is your highlight is too focused. if you are using the settings I gave you earlier, your Power map should be very dark and the skin should be less focused than the default - which is too glossy on the wings to me.
Also, the AH3 default P-51D skin has lots of baked in detail and highlights as well. I really think you need to stop worrying about fine tuning the spec maps until you finish detailing your base skin. Bake in the details to make the metal look like metal and use a different shade of gray for silver paint.
The spec maps are the last step. Get your diffuse map finished first.
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Is this skin using a very dark power map on the metal? What I'm seeing compared to the default is your highlight is too focused. if you are using the settings I gave you earlier, your Power map should be very dark and the skin should be less focused than the default - which is too glossy on the wings to me.
I totally agree with this, but Hitech and Skuzzy think otherwise. I believe any way...
I haven't gotten to revising the power map because I *think* I am using the Spec as the jumping off point. I can throw something up there now.
Also, the AH3 default P-51D skin has lots of baked in detail and highlights as well. I really think you need to stop worrying about fine tuning the spec maps until you finish detailing your base skin. Bake in the details to make the metal look like metal and use a different shade of gray for silver paint.
The spec maps are the last step. Get your diffuse map finished first.
Well, I am almost done with it. I need to learn what the Spec map is going to do before I try baking stuff in. I did the baked-in with Jo-Baby (the yellow tail) and it looked like crap because the Spec maps blew it up. I'm chasing my tail around. When I get the Spec maps to behave then I can *try* some baked in detail...maybe. But Skuzzy seems to indicate that we need to let the Spec maps do the work for us.
My detail is 99% finished. It's all about cleanup and adding things that the Spec map won't really change--like panel lines and rivets. I know how those will react already.
If I can't get these Spec maps to do what I want then the diffuse is academic really. :bhead
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I think that yous skin does not convey what is metal or silver paint enough. That might be what is throwing off Skuzzy and Hitech. The other issue is that you have not baked in heavy enough detail because you insist on keeping an accurately clean finish on the puttied an painted wing surface. I understand your choice to do so, but it looks flat and boring. Look at the the AH3 default P-51D and look at how dirty and detailed the base skin is. These problems are compounded by the fact that the 3D model is old and has flat shapes.
I added a "Silver paint" area to the left wing of my metal 109 to illustrate the differences you should look to make between metal and silver paint.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/ahss32_zpsa40jskob.png~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/ahss32_zpsa40jskob.png.html)
Pure gray for the paint vs. blueish gray for metal. I erased the baked in panel shape highlight over the painted area, but kept the rivet and panel line highlights and lowlights unchanged. All other weathering remains unchanged as well.
The only change to any spec maps was to darken the painted panel on the _S map from RGB 158 to 102. You may want to lighten the same area on the _E and _P maps slightly as well.
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I think that yous skin does not convey what is metal or silver paint enough. That might be what is throwing off Skuzzy and Hitech. The other issue is that you have not baked in heavy enough detail because you insist on keeping an accurately clean finish on the puttied an painted wing surface. I understand your choice to do so, but it looks flat and boring. Look at the the AH3 default P-51D and look at how dirty and detailed the base skin is. These problems are compounded by the fact that the 3D model is old and has flat shapes.
I respect that opinion. OTOH, I think the otherwise mostly-excellent default is *WAY* overdone on detail in some spots. It looks lumpy and a tad fake on the bottom. I am aiming for somewhere in the middle ultimately, but I don't intend to go anywhere near as stark as the default. It doesn't look right. I've toyed with the notion of doing a copy and paste of the default and just steal the underside if that's what it takes to get approved, but that wouldn't really help because then I'd have to do the same for the spec map and I'd wind up with a lumpy skin--which is precisely what I do NOT want.
The skin shape is already lumpy and angular as it is. Adding tons of rivets and panel lines doesn't do anything to make the airplane look better. It actually looks worse. Gradients to the paneling may help, but if only if I can get the specularity right.
I've tried baked in detail before. It looks good on my diffuse map but horribly fake in the game. It doesn't work because I can't get the lighting effects to behave on the natural metal.
If the skinning team wants all the skins to look the same then Hitech should just have you, Greebo, and Cactus do them all. The rest of us will stick to the arenas. I get lots of compliments for the fact that I don't overdo the detail like most other Mustangs. My skins don't detract from AH3 and nobody is forced to use them. Variety in style is a good thing. If it isn't then we can just cut and paste the default with different colors or something...
(Ultimately I feel at times like I am being blacklisted. If that's the case then I would prefer to be told so I can quit wasting everyone's time. Then again, if that *WERE* the case, Skuzzy and Hitech wouldn't expend the effort to help me. In any event, this is just frustration talking, and I intend to keep trying any way. I've attempted the other method and got nowhere. I need to try this approach instead to see if it clicks.)
I'm taking a step by step approach to this. Working my way UP to the higher detail not down. I'd rather have too little than too much.
If I get the specular right then my eye can adjust around that better than trying the other way around. I've already tried it that way and it just doesn't work. I finally figured out the AH2 system and that approach worked well there. It doesn't translate here for me.
I *NEED* to know what the specular is supposed to be, otherwise I do everything multiple times to get the effect I want. I'm worn out with it.
I added a "Silver paint" area to the left wing of my metal 109 to illustrate the differences you should look to make between metal and silver paint.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/ahss32_zpsa40jskob.png~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/ahss32_zpsa40jskob.png.html)
Pure gray for the paint vs. blueish gray for metal. I erased the baked in panel shape highlight over the painted area, but kept the rivet and panel line highlights and lowlights unchanged. All other weathering remains unchanged as well.
The only change to any spec maps was to darken the painted panel on the _S map from RGB 158 to 102. You may want to lighten the same area on the _E and _P maps slightly as well.
Those are superb effects. Absolutely terrific.
Something like that is what I have in mind. :aok :salute
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The bumpiness is from the normal map.
Those are superb effects. Absolutely terrific.
Something like that is what I have in mind. :aok :salute
Here are all the files on the G-6.
Look at all the detail I baked into the diffuse map and how basic the spec maps are. Also note that I did not add any rivet detail to the normal map.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/109G61_zpswea4ccvy.png~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/109G61_zpswea4ccvy.png.html)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/109G61_E_zpsgnabztek.png~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/109G61_E_zpsgnabztek.png.html)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/109G61_P_zpss75wfbll.png~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/109G61_P_zpss75wfbll.png.html)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/109G61_S_zpsgvxidtjc.png~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/109G61_S_zpsgvxidtjc.png.html)
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The bumpiness is from the normal map.
Ah, of course. I've had similar issues.
However, the polygonal shape of the upper wing surface is there regardless. Fore-aft panel lines and invasion stripes amplify this effect which is why I try to tone them down.
Here are all the files on the G-6.
Look at all the detail I baked into the diffuse map and how basic the spec maps are. Also note that I did not add any rivet detail to the normal map.
Gold mine. That S map is minimalist beyond anything I imagined. Wow. I gotta' study these...
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The bumpiness is from the normal map.
I took a closer look. I think it is the baked in detail that gives it that quilt-like look. If that was toned down a tad it would look better IMO.
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Ah the hell with it...
Look at these.. Hope they help.
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Yes the _S map is very basic there. If I was making a proper skin that was bare metal, I'd probably add some more weathering to it. It was just quickly made to test the specularity levels.
Here's the Normal map also.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/109G61_N_zpsma87p9uh.png~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/109G61_N_zpsma87p9uh.png.html)
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Yes the _S map is very basic there. If I was making a proper skin that was bare metal, I'd probably add some more weathering to it. It was just quickly made to test the specularity levels.
Here's the Normal map also.
Thank you, sir. What are you using to convert to Normal?
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Photoshop CS2. The's the free version Skuzzy linked to months ago. I only use it to make conversions.
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Photoshop CS2. The's the free version Skuzzy linked to months ago. I only use it to make conversions.
Ah, okay. I can't get it to work. Keeps asking for some kind of font. I finally discovered CrazyBump. Seems to work well enough but I haven't mastered it just yet.
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Which font?
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Ah the hell with it...
Look at these.. Hope they help.
I will give them a shot. This post snuck by me. :salute
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Okay, so part one of my test is in progress. Devil flat out said, "Black." This coincides with Fencer's 51 maps he posted.
I'm not sure if I nailed precisely Greebo's previously posted numbers yet. I have to take a look in GIMP (which I'm still learning). In any case, the NMF here looks a *LOT* better--still needs work but we're heading the right direction. (Obviously the black stripes need adjusting.) This must be what Skuzzy and Hitech were getting at. I sure as heck hope so.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27137)
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Nice improvement so far.
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Nice improvement so far.
Thanks.
Here it is with Fencer's settings. (Some parts of his wing have invasion stripes not NMF so that's why you may see some of the bands.)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=385906.0;attach=27143)
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Hang in there Vraciu, it's looking good!
Question: Are you planning on skinning your namesake's plane?
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Hang in there Vraciu, it's looking good!
Question: Are you planning on skinning your namesake's plane?
Thanks, man. I'm trying. :cheers:
Greebo already beat me to that other one. I could not improve upon his work, either. :)
:salute
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The effects maps look better to me, although its always hard to tell much just from static screenshots. You can see where the light is coming from now.
The skin itself is good but I think it could use a bit more weathering and shading. I know you like the clean look but its those variations in tone on the dirt and metal panels on Devil's NMF 109 that make it so convincing.
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The effects maps look better to me, although its always hard to tell much just from static screenshots. You can see where the light is coming from now.
The skin itself is good but I think it could use a bit more weathering and shading. I know you like the clean look but its those variations in tone on the dirt and metal panels on Devil's NMF 109 that make it so convincing.
Some added weathering on this airplane is appropriate. In the photo it is looking slightly knackered as they would say.
Shading as in...?
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Ok V you told me to look at the new skins and I LOVE THEM OD is my favorite!!!!!!
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Ok V you told me to look at the new skins and I LOVE THEM OD is my favorite!!!!!!
Thanks man. Maybe one will be in your inbox next tour. Fingers crossed.
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Browsing through the forums, that OD 4th FG bird sure looks like a honey! I hope it gets added!
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Browsing through the forums, that OD 4th FG bird sure looks like a honey! I hope it gets added!
Thanks, man. All the D slots are full but I will have it ready if one becomes available.
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Wrong thread. Sorry.
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I apologize for this necrobump but there's a reason.
Now that Hitech has expanded the slots available I just wanted to let everyone know that I want to finish and submit this skin. So, please nobody steal it out from under me. LOL :)
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Hi all,
Came across this thread while looking for something else and thought you might like some newly uncovered information on this particular aircraft. The P-51D in the photo above is actually coded 44-13879. It is not Deacon's olive drab D-model 44-15347.
This kite is the second nmf D model assigned to Maj Hively; his first was 44-13306, QP-J. This is the aircraft he flew on FRANTIC II (The Russia Shuttle). In late July 1944, he was assigned 44-13879 (his first mission in this a/c was 1 August 44) and flew this D-5 up until he went on leave in mid-late August. He received 44-15347 upon returning from leave and resuming ops in November 44.
The Association of the 4th Fighter Group is an active organization and is regularly engaged in researching/updating information on the men and aircraft of the group. As this group (and other groups) honor the 4th by creating skins of its aircraft, I thought you might like to have the correct information on Maj. Hively's kites.
Kind regards,
Tim McCann
Association of the 4th Fighter Group
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Thanks for stopping by, Tim. I believe there may be some confusion as the aircraft skinned IS 44-15347. The photo of Deacon himself was just included to put a face with the name as I endeavor to always honor the man/men who flew the machine in question.
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/skinadmin/stream.php?floc=1&sfile=reference2img.jpg&stype=1&pindex=p51d_33)
Here is the skin page for your review in case I made a mistake. There were TWO OD Mustangs he flew, did I read that correctly?
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/skinadmin/viewrel.php?sessid=6AN0GTH2dp0XU&skref=P51D0206192020&vtype=R
A thread about the updated version of the skin is located here:
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,400418.0.html
We have multiple 4th FG skins in the game so any help you can provide on accuracy is always welcomed.
Thanks for coming by. Hope you'll try the game out sometime. Bring your friends! :salute
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44-13779 (WD*C) was also flown by Blakeslee. Interesting.
http://www.americanairmuseum.com/aircraft/19219
(http://www.americanairmuseum.com/sites/default/files/media/media-15533.jpeg)
Is 44-13306 was “The Deacon” Hively is standing next to?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/84fjHT6VtM53ydrEr8MrvbnoFgSqe01QfT9KJu0inlKE8KtWT5mpAJxz-Ez-LC5I7svh97CLb_R0DhZzrhKrsZmp_E_MqZS5)
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Hi again,
In my haste, I assumed the the photo with Maj. Hively and the plane named The Deacon was stated as having been 44-15347 before it was painted olive drab. My intention was to point out that the plane The Deacon that Maj. Hively is posing in front of in the photo was not 44-15347, but 44-13879. Sorry for my confusion.
44-15347 was the only olive drab P-51D in the group, as far as we know.
Maj. Hively was assigned four Mustangs while with the the 4th. They were:
P-51B-7-NA 43-6898 QP-J The Deacon (Lost 6 June 44 - Maj. Winslow M Sobanski "Mike" KIA)
P-51D-5-NA 44-13306 QP-J (Assigned late June 1944, the a/c Hively flew to Russia on FRANTIC II; this is the plane in which Hively is sitting in the cockpit photo above)
P-51D-5-NA 44-13879 QP-J The Deacon (Assigned late July 1944, named The Deacon this is the plane he is standing next to)
P-51D-15-NA 44-15347 QP-J (his last assigned Mustang; assigned to Louis Norley and recoded QP-O after Hively was transferred out in Feb 1945)
In the photo of 44-13779 below, that's Olin Kiser on the left (to whom the plane was assigned after Col. Blakeslee was sent home) and his buddy Chuck Konsler. The photo dates to Dec 1944, possibly the first two weeks of JAN 45.
Sorry for any mix-up!
Cheers,
Tim McCann
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Excellent information, sir. Thank you for providing it. I didn't have Louis Norley's first name and squadron code letters for my write up, but now I do.
I don't think I've seen a photo of Hively's NMF Mustang other than the close up, unfortunately. :(
(No worries on the mix up. It happens. I got 779 and 879 mixed up--possibly due to a typo in the search bar--which is how WD*C got thrown into the discussion. Lol.)
The background info you've provided is outstanding. :cheers:
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I like it. Something different for sure.
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I like it. Something different for sure.
Thanks. This thread is the original. I've treated it since. The most up to date thread is here:
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,400418.0.html
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Vraciu, I love this skin! Thanks so much for creating it. Let’s make sure this one stays in the p51D lineup.
OOpk
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Vraciu, I love this skin! Thanks so much for creating it. Let’s make sure this one stays in the p51D lineup.
OOpk
You are welcome, bro. And thanks!
Here is the updated version that I submitted after Hitech increased the available skin slots:
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,400418.0.html
(I'm going to ask to lock this thread so people can find the proper one.)