General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Mano on October 14, 2023, 08:40:31 AM
Title: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
Post by: Mano on October 14, 2023, 08:40:31 AM
:salute
Title: Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
Post by: save on October 14, 2023, 07:30:08 PM
Trucks have been driven for decades with LPG, specially in SE Asia.
What is needed is the infrastructure to support Hydrogen refueling.
We have a couple of dozens of hydrogen taxis around Stockholm here in Sweden, they only have a few places to refuel, and a taxi guy I spoke with told me he will be going back to mild hybrid gasoline, giving him 59 U.S. MPG, because of lack of infrastructure for hydrogen.
Title: Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
Post by: oboe on October 14, 2023, 09:52:48 PM
I'm happy to see progress being made toward the reduction of fossil fuel use in transportation, with multiple technologies.
I Googled, "how is industrial hydrogen produced?"
The answer (from Wikipedia):
Quote
Hydrogen production is the family of industrial methods for generating hydrogen gas. There are four main sources for the commercial production of hydrogen: natural gas, oil, coal, and electrolysis of water; which account for 48%, 30%, 18% and 4% of the world's hydrogen production respectively.[1] Fossil fuels are the dominant source of industrial hydrogen.[2] As of 2020, the majority of hydrogen (~95%) is produced by steam reforming of natural gas and other light hydrocarbons, partial oxidation of heavier hydrocarbons, and coal gasification.[3][4] Other methods of hydrogen production include biomass gasification and methane pyrolysis. Methane pyrolysis and water electrolysis can use any source of electricity including renewable energy.
So if I read that correctly, 96% of industrial hydrogen is currently produced from fossil fuels (Natural Gas, Oil, & Coal). Long way to go it seems, to make Hydrogen a truly green energy source, available on a large scale. And what happens to to Carbon atoms when the Hydrogen is liberated from natural gas or coal?
Currently, roughly 40% of Colorado's electrical grid is energy produced from renewables like wind and solar, the remaining 60% is from fossil fuels (mostly coal, I think). I hope this will improve over time, but we do need to keep in mind how the fuel for the 'green' transportation is produced - that needs to be green technology as well, or its not as big a win as we might think.
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Title: Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
Post by: Vulcan on October 14, 2023, 10:14:19 PM
I've seen some stuff recently where they are blending hydrogen with diesel, seems to require minimum mods and works well.
Title: Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
Post by: lyric1 on October 16, 2023, 01:01:24 AM
Like this story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAEhhYqMEBE
Title: Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
Post by: oboe on October 16, 2023, 07:00:41 AM
Title: Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
Post by: Shuffler on October 16, 2023, 03:14:28 PM
They have developed a hydrogen that stays in powder form. It does not go to gas till needed. This takes most of the hazards out of storing it on a vehicle. https://newatlas.com/energy/mechanochemical-breakthrough-unlocks-cheap-safe-powdered-hydrogen/
Title: Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
Post by: BOBO on October 25, 2023, 09:43:07 PM
Toyota appears to be betting on engines that burn "Green Ammonia" instead of hydrogen fuel cell & battery powered EV now.
"Blue Ammonia" has been powering some ships for a short time and I haven't read about any disasters yet.
Personally I like ammonia but only because I earn my living with it.
Title: Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
Post by: GasTeddy on October 26, 2023, 03:37:51 AM