Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: dBeav on September 17, 2021, 05:34:55 AM
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Anyone know if there is a joystick available with a metal shaft?
I have 5 VKB Gladiators installed in an exhibit at an air museum and 2 of them have now had the shaft snap. For the first one I inserted an aluminum rod inside the stick shaft but that's going to be a pain if I end up having to do that for all 5.
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The Gunfighter has a all metal gimbal. I'm a few years into mine. It's really robust. The interchangeable grips are all plastic. I can't imagine putting enough force on that to break it. Don't remember ever seeing a posting anywhere of that happening with that model base either. Doesn't surprise me. That base is literally a murder weapon.
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I was looking at that one. My concern is whether the shaft is any tougher. The pic shows where 2 sticks so far have broken.
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Can't see your pic. I know the Gladiator is the more affordable model VKB makes. The gimbal and internals are plastic which makes it that way. The Gunfighter base internals OTOH are all metal. Metal gimbal, cams and bearings. The shaft that protrudes from the top of the gimbal where the grip attaches is metal. There's no chance of breaking any of that. I have a 200mm extension on mine with a fairly decent spring load too. I think even if you had a particularly ham fisted person they'd have to give it a mighty yank to maybe snap something on the grip but never the base. All of the grips other than the MCG-Pro Ultimate are plastic, ABS I think. The Ultimate is metal too but much more expensive than the regular MCG-Pro. It adds interchangeable hats.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/CMjpg3mP/20210919-121253.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kDXpNprK)
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I can see Fugi's. Yep. Plastic. El snapperooney!
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Virpil bases (Warbrd, CM2) are all metal and everything up to the grip is metal. however I think all their grips are Tough Plastic/Polymer. Fortunately You can drop on a Thrustmaster Cougar/Warthog Grip into it and the software supports it natively no adapters needed. I think the same holds true for the Thrustmaster Hornet Grip.
The Constellation Alpha is the best and toughest stick Virpil has if you like having a stick on a stick, I have the Cm2 Grip (not to be confused with the CM2 Base or Throttle) on a warbrd base and the weakest part of the CM2 grip is the flip down trigger, I have already replaced mine once. The brake lever is also plastic but it is unlikely (Not impossible) that it can break as well. I may actually switch to the Alpha in the future for which the 2 parts in question are metal not cheap flimsy plastic like the CM2.
That being wrote Virpil is expensive and once you go down that path forever will it dominate your destiny .... at least from a what a little green guy panhandling in San Fransisco told me.
I think Winwing sticks also have a full metal base and shaft up to the grip and I think they can support Thrustmaster grips with an adapter.
The WinWing Orion is near the same price point as the MSRP (non scalping price) of the Warthog and it's a Warthog killer .... except for the grip it's really hard to beet thrustmaster's grip but Thrustmaster's bases are crap and the Orion beats it in almost every way.
The Higher end VKB gunfighter bases are all metal and I think the Ultimate has an All metal Stick .... again your going to pay a premium.
In your situation your best off paying a lot for the mid range Hotas (Winwing orion, Tm Warthog) to high end grips and bases (Winwing Taurus/Libra, VKB Gunfighter Ultimate, Virpil Warbrd + Alpha or Warthog Grip) or just keep replacing the really cheap ones.
The VKB Gladiator is only $150 The Orion hotas is around $500 Virpil and VKB set ups are going to run you about $500 to $600 for the Base and Stick .... That's a lot of Gladiators.
You could go cheaper and get a bunch of Logitech 3d pros but you may be replacing them every couple of days at a public display exposed to punishment midgets.
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"Punishment midgets"! HA, love that. Actually the last one was done in by a grown arse man.
Thanks for the info. VERY helpful. We'll probably just keep on keepin on with the Gladiators but who knows, somebody may loosen up some purse strings.
Thanks again!
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I don't know for sure but they might send you the parts to repair that or at least let you send it to them for repair. Shipping would be steep of course but a lot cheaper than buying new sticks. You should ask on the VKB forums, show them these pics, and see what they say.
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CH sticks look as interesting as old women’s shoes but had mine for 10 years.
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Zack lives! :rock
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CH sticks look as interesting as old women’s shoes but had mine for 10 years.
Since you are comparing joysticks to old women's shoes you must be a collector of them. :rofl :rofl :D
I have to get a new Logitech soon anyways due to having a short in it when attempting to shoot when in a right rudder scissor/angle.
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Is still have my old pre-APEM Ch products gear ... well my son has them now. I've had them since around 2002ish.
Old CH was good however back around 2009ish a global conglomerate called APEM group purchased CH products from the family in San Diego that owned them. APEM wanted CH for their industrial controller products and never gave a care about simmers. The products are now made in china and assembled in Mexico.
The only problems with my Old CH gear is the 8 way hat on my Fighterstick occasionally fails to fire after 18 yearws and one of the toe brake pedals in the Pro pedals breaks after every couple of years of use (Easily replaces just use the correct wire, Network wire bad .. speaker wire not so bad, electrical wire better).
I picked up an CH - APEM fighter stick and pedals cheap on amazon in 2019 but when I went to buy an extra throttle I got 3 defective ones in a row and finally gave up as my old one still works fine. If you buy CH gear your best best is to buy them from amazon for the easy return just avoid the scalpers.
APEM has made no improvements to their consumer/simmer products lines. It's still 8 bit potentiometers, they no longer make replacement parts, and they no longer support their software (Good luck getting it work on windows 10, I've done it but it's a PITA), heck! they basically don't support their consumer products at all .... at most you will get warranty swap if the products fails during the warranty period .... good luck getting a response from support, It took them a few days over 3 weeks to respond to my inquiry about getting a replacement harness for my pedals for which they told me they no longer make or sell replacement parts. Even the old CH hanger forum is gone.
Most manufactures are using 15-16 bit Magnetic sensors like Thrustmaster Hall sensors. Thrustmaster even upgraded their warthog line from 12 bit sensors to 14 bit sensors about 7 years ago when the msrp jumped from $299usd to $399usd.
IN the end however CH is all plastic and if you are breaking VKB Gladiators, CH is not going to last any longer. However, I would like to point out that the Gladiator is a twisty stick and CH is not, I'm wondering if it's the twist axis that is causing people to break them - You may want to toss in some cheap rudder pedals and lock out the twist axis to see if this improves the breakage rate.
Gman is probably the best person to ask about joysticks .... they guy collects them.
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I collect underwear from washing lines :old:
Its a hobby
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I was looking at that one. My concern is whether the shaft is any tougher. The pic shows where 2 sticks so far have broken.
Don't move your controls so rapidly :D
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1.Assuming they're bolted down they might be harder to break if they aren't. Lock them with a cable but let the base move.
or
2. Go with the cheapest stick.
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I currently have the Mad Catz Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino and the dang buttons are failing. I'm having to reprogram my stuff to the ones that are still working. Other then that it's working.
I would like to replace it with something that will last. My budget is 500.
I've read that the warthog stick/throttle has crappy buttons that wear out quickly. Any truth to that one?
Also, are either of these a decent stick/deal? (I mean as in how long will they last and are they at or near the MSRP)
Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS Controller $169
Logitech G Saitek X52 $149 or the pro for $199 (what makes the pro $50 more and is it worth it?)
Thanks in advance.
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I purchased the T16000 3 years ago when it was a mere $60. Not a bad stick if you can deal with limited programable inputs or have a throttle, as I do. The throw torque is lighter than a Logitec Extreme 3D and tighter than a CH Fighterstick. Not sure if I'd pay $160 to replace it if it crapped out. The 16000 is pretty smooth tho.
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This is stick and throttle for the price. Is that the same as what you got?
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I have a warthog and have had it for a number of years. I no problems with the buttons or axises. The handle seems to be getting a bit loose, not flopping around but you can feel it more than see it.
For the T16000. I had one as my back up, and ended up giving it to MARK4 after his old T16000 died after 5-6 years of work outs. There is a mod kit for the throttle to tighten it up but Its a decent stick.
https://www.amazon.com/ThrustMaster-2960778-Thrustmaster-T16000M-HOTAS/dp/B01KCHPRXA/ref=asc_df_B01KCHPRXA/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312181276443&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11203748208384417566&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001823&hvtargid=pla-383410526098&psc=1
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Thanks for the info.
No comments on this one?
Logitech G Saitek X52 $149 or the pro for $199 (what makes the pro $50 more and is it worth it?)
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Thanks for the info.
No comments on this one?
Logitech G Saitek X52 $149 or the pro for $199 (what makes the pro $50 more and is it worth it?)
From me? No. I have only had 1 logitech stick a hundred years ago and had nothing but trouble with it and returned it. Many have had good luck with them.
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I was very disappointed with the Warthog. I had nothing but problems with my stick. Wiring issues, stiction issue, and ended up with the hub inbetween the grip, and the gimbal breaking. I actually had to send it in for warranty repair (Which was a pita, because their warranty service center was in Montreal) when it was only a couple of months old because it had bricked itself. Used my old CH Fighterstick (I still have and it still works fine) as back up while I waited for it to come back. When I took mine apart I wasn't impressed with the build quality, and in fact found the most impressive part of it to be the grip itself, and honestly only because of the mass of it. I was one of the very first adopters of the Warthog so that may have something to do with my experience.
Not trying to start a war, just expressing my opinion on the Warthog. I'm using a first gen Virpil T-50 Mongoos base with a T-50 CM2 grip. I compared it with the VKB Gunfighter, and went with the Virpil set up only because I felt it was the better deal at that time. I would still like a Gunfighter, but can't justify the expense when my Virpil stick works perfectly for me. I will say that a stick like the Virpil is at least two levels up from the Warthog. And of course you pay for it.
:salute
Sik
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Thanks for the info.
No comments on this one?
Logitech G Saitek X52 $149 or the pro for $199 (what makes the pro $50 more and is it worth it?)
I have an X52 Pro after using the X52 for a very long time. the Pro has some more metal parts than the normal X52. Personally I'd look on the used market, that's where I've bought both of my X52 Pros. One for $70 and one for $100, both basically brand new.
I like the X52 Pro, but mainly because I used the X52 for a long time so the transition was smooth and a no-brainer.
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The poster is having issues with the vkb gladiator mk II. I wonder if the newer version, the gladiator nxt, would have had the same breackages.
I do wonder what the toughest twisty rudder stick is the go to myself at times.
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Humans... go figure :D
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1.Assuming they're bolted down they might be harder to break if they aren't. Lock them with a cable but let the base move.
or
2. Go with the cheapest stick.
Ya they are. Seems to make it easier for the little hands to control them. Was hoping adults could figure it out better.
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Found an upgrade kit for the Gladiator that has a metal shaft. Have one on the way, hopefully it works. With a new grip it's almost the same cost as a new joystick but if it lasts longer it would be worth it. If I can upgrade them without changing the grip it's only 20 bucks.
Soon as the boat from China arrives we'll find out.
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That's the cool thing about the VKB stuff. They have absolutely no problem at all with you tearing the stick down for whatever. Anybody else? Uh.. You voided the warranty, sorry! Hope that works out for you. Agreed way cheaper than a total stick upgrade.
Although the Gunfighter is super awesome. Sayin!
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Parts arrived much quicker than expected. Took 15-20 minutes to get it swapped out. Should be a bit more indestructible.
Problem is that the upgraded shaft requires the grip to be changed. Between the two it's the same price as another complete stick, but, at least there's a little less plastic.
4 more kits on the way just in case they decide to stop making them.
Wish me luck.
(https://turma.net/1.jpg)(https://turma.net/2.jpg)