Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: leonid on December 20, 2000, 09:47:00 AM
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I'm seeing in the news that Serie A games will start 15 minutes late in player protest to growing fan violence. Is Italy getting as bad as England now???
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OI!
Be careful or we'll send the Millwall fans over.
<g>
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qts
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Italian football violence is miles worse than in England. It used to be bad in the 70's and early 80's, but things have changed immensely.
Sheffield Wednesday fan here, going to games since the age of 5. I've never seen any trouble in a football ground, and rarely any trouble outside. Go to Brasil if you want to see some extreme football related violence.
qts - Millwall eh? Southern nancy boys. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 12-21-2000).]
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Originally posted by Dowding:
Italian football violence is miles worse than in England. It used to be bad in the 70's and early 80's, but things have changed immensely.
Dowding, now say the truth.
I recall your Prime minister saying in public and by TV, on Press, everywhere, that he was ASHAMED of English soccer supporters (AKA Hooligans).
I dont recall of any happening that forces the Italian president to do the same thing.
I recall that EVERY and EACH time an english soccer team plays in Spain (FCBarcelona supporter here, recall many matches against Newcastle, Chelsea, Leeds. Manchester Utd...) the police has to put hundreds of policemen to keep the security in hte streets of the city where the match is played.
I never recall that same thing done with an Italian soccer team.
English hooligans are the worse European soccer supporters, BY FAR. So stop your braggin on "now we aren't that bad"...its clear that you wont be the motive of another Heysel, again...
But if to be good is to go on the streets of a foreign nation, with 6 hundred of your friends, drunk like pigs and breaking shop's glasses, thumping cars, and throwing things because your team has lost, excuse me but you need some civic lessons.
Sheffield Wednesday fan here, going to games since the age of 5. I've never seen any trouble in a football ground, and rarely any trouble outside. Go to Brasil if you want to see some extreme football related violence
My god. Maybe you haven't seen the violence first-hand...but for sure you need to check for amnesya problems, man...
Recall Marseille on France'98? and the hooligans in marseille?...
Recall The Eurocup last summer?...recall that the UEFA was about kicking England out of the competition because your hooligans' attitude?...recal your Prime Minister declaring that he was ashamed of having people like that in his country?
You need a memory check, dude. You do really need it. Excuse my harsh words but I cant believe that I read what I read from you, after what has happened in Euro'2000 and France'98. Not to count the endless incidents your hooligans cause in team matches on foreing nations, of course
[/rant off]
To be true nothing in this world compares with the South american ultra groups...Argentina soccer is almost more known for its violence than for their soccer teams.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 12-21-2000).]
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Q. How can you tell RAM has been posting from your computer???
A. There is spittel all over your monitor.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Sorry RAM, I couldn't resist that one.
Cobra
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Originally posted by Dowding:
Sheffield Wednesday fan here
[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 12-21-2000).]
Hey Dowding Birmingham City Fan here (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (Sorry about the Worthington Cup quarter final NOT! ) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Mind you your dead right about the Millwall fans though (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
And sorry to bite RAM but.....
You said "English hooligans are the worse European soccer supporters, BY FAR."
Wrong!!!!! "English hooligans are the worsed European soccer hooligans, BY FAR,"
I am a soccer supporter and take exception to your comments.
TTFN
snafu
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snafus Homepage (http://www.snafu.theantcolony.com)
(http://www.snafu.theantcolony.com/Images/goondrops.gif)
[This message has been edited by snafu (edited 12-21-2000).]
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Don't confuse the wextremist right wing groups who use football matches as a congregation point for violence to football supporters.
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Originally posted by snafu:
Wrong!!!!! "English hooligans are the worsed European soccer hooligans, BY FAR,"
Sorry snafu...but a hooligan is a extreme soccer supporter.
I dont like it either, I am a fanatic of soccer.
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Sorry Leonid, I've not seen this thread till this morning.
Well, there is fan violence in Italy. What we dont do is to *EXPORT* violence into other european countries. Like hooligans do.
What happened in Belgium (Eiselle Stadium, spelling?) some years ago and what is still often happening when an english soccer team plays abroad its a shame for the whole europe.
Its a sad thing.
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Last post on this.......
Ram, Hooligans are not extreme soccer supporters. They are just a sad bunch of !"£!"%&* who have chosen football to get their "Kicks".
As with other countries There are many matches in the UK with far more "passion" evident (Local Derbies we call them) - Manchester UTD V Manchester City, Sheffield Wed v Sheffield Utd, Birmingham City v Aston Villa. The list goes on, and yes there is of course trouble (As in other countries). But the level of violence can not even be compared with the organised attacks seen in Marseille for instance. They should be treated as what they are and dealt with accordingly.
and as for quoting Tony Blair Oh dear...... (Nice to know people in other countries listen to him because no one over here does) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
In all my 43 years my team has only reached the top flight once in the 70's for a period of about 5 years. The rest of the time has been spent in Div 1 or 2. Neither me or the other 20,000 who go to watch them feel the need to maim and kill after yet another 5 -0 loss. Like you Ram we are supporters (I am an extreme supporter if you like). But don't confuse me with the Hooligans.
Flame away like I said this is my last post in this thread.
TTFN
snafu
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Originally posted by snafu:
and as for quoting Tony Blair Oh dear...... (Nice to know people in other countries listen to him because no one over here does) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
LOL!...we have no other choice than to listen to him carefully last months...but that says nothing about what we think about him... (HMS Tireless problem, has anyone seen a glowing nuke sub on Gibraltar?? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif) )
On the subject, OK, point taken. I still think that a Hooligan is a soccer supporter. I also feel the need to qualify them in other cathegory than me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
Anyway we agree on one thing: they plainly suck!
(BTW FYI, my favorite team in England is Liverpool. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 12-22-2000).]
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RAM - you are a complete arse. And what's more, everyone knows it.
English 'fans' aren't the worst in Europe.
Not to count the endless incidents your hooligans cause in team matches on foreing nations, of course.
I also remember the two Leeds United fans stabbed to death by Gallatasaray fans in Turkey last year, or the Leeds United fans stabbed (without provocation - they weren't wearing any football kits, and were having a drink in a pub) in Italy this year.
Check out the story behind Leonid's post, by the way.
...English soccer supporters (AKA Hooligans).
Absolute toejame and you know it. Going by what you say, I'm a soccer hooligan, yet I've never been in a fight in or around a football ground in my life. Your statement is akin to me saying,
"All Spanish blokes are limp-wristed lady boys, with the intellectual capacity of the winner of 'Dimmest Village Idiot of the Year' award."
Equally ridiculous, you see?
True, there is football related violence due to English fans at tournaments.
But the same goes for German fans.
And Dutch fans.
And Italian fans.
And Turkish fans.
Ad nauseum.
You mention World Cup '98. Check out the story about the French police man beaten so badly by GERMAN fans; he is now a brain damaged cripple.
You see, if you actually open your eyes, you'll find soccer related violence in every country.
Maybe even Spain. Heaven forbid.
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Originally posted by Dowding:
RAM - you are a complete arse. And what's more, everyone knows it.
Buh-bye dowdiiing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Merry Christmas. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Heh......what is with you soccer/football fans??? I'm a Canuck and IMHO ALL soccer fans are hooligans.
And just read the above posts and TRY to tell me I'm wrong (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BTW it's not a flame here......you folks are FIGHTING over who FIGHTS more (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) I'll go watch a hockey game where we can get drunk and watch the PLAYERS duke it out.
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skernsk,
Hehe, read 'Fever Pitch'. That is a hardcore football fan, not a hooligan. Football fans and hooligans are two different things (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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RAM's probably still pissed off that the Spanish men's basketball team in the recent Para-Lympics were revealed as a bunch of cheats (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
11 out of 14 in the 'intellectually disabled' team subsequently confessed they had no disabilities at all.
Some countries (and people) will do ANYTHING to win, won't they RAM? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Originally posted by Jekyll:
RAM's probably still pissed off that the Spanish men's basketball team in the recent Para-Lympics were revealed as a bunch of cheats (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
11 out of 14 in the 'intellectually disabled' team subsequently confessed they had no disabilities at all.
Some countries (and people) will do ANYTHING to win, won't they RAM? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Ashamed. I am Ashamed of that. Some people in this country will do anything to don anything. Its a shame for the human race, and for Spain for sure.
As a side note, this was a thing mounted by the president of the spanish paralymic federation, and was discovered by the media. Everyone has stated ASAP that this is incredible and taht someone has to pay for that.
For now the president of the federation has resigned, and I really hope that the new president has the honor and gallantry (along with the CHEATER basket players) to give back the Gold medal to the International Federation.
I wont want to see that done by the legal players...because the part of of the team that was really composed by intelectually disabled guys earned their reward.
Its a big big piece of toejam, Jekyll (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) I wish this had never happened (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 12-23-2000).]
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Skernsk - please don't be a tart. Branding all football fans as hooligans is as legitimate as labelling all Canadians as inbred homosexual bananas. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Go to a football game in England, and maybe 99% of the time there will be no trouble in the ground. England internationals have the reputation of being pretty hostile events, but until you've been in another country and had bottles and coins thrown at you from the host nation's fans, you won't understand why certain mentally imbalanced individuals react in the way they do.
Unlike RAM, who pretends to have intimate knowledge of all football related fracas where England fans were involved, I've been 'away' with the England supporter's fraternity. There is trouble, but most fans are just that, fans. Some of them do go abroad just to have a fight, but they are in the minority.
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Dowding,
I'm reading all this and thinking of your "European Super State" post.
It's not looking good, old chum!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Yeah, Toad, it didn't look too good for the States back in the 1860's did it?
If I can have a European superstate formed with only football violence being a problem I'll be a happ man. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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ah, the Civil War was not held during a kindler, gentler time when we were all in touch with our Politically Correct side.
If we did it now, we'd just have their people talk to our people and meet for lunch at Spago.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Well you see, England has this reputation where a few hooligans cause trouble and give our football a really bad name. There was some match last year where English fans were blamed for causing a certain amount of trouble and it finally turned out that some 'neutral' foreign fans joined our allotted area in the stadium and caused the trouble. Another time in Marseille a restaurant got smashed up, diners said that the English didn't start the trouble... but guess what, ignore the diners that were there and the English were blamed. Another time, forget which country, English fans were sold tickets in the wrong end of the stand. Guess what, they were actually allowed in by officials but they didn't have Police segragation... and a fight started. Hardly surprises me when everyone are happily to accuse England.
As for saying English are the worst... are you forgetting about Turkey? They murder supporters fairly regular and throw not stones but huge rocks and bricks!
All I can say is that I have followed football all of my life... been to hundreds of matches in England and in Europe and not once have I seen any serious trouble. Oh, tell a lie, back in 1991 I saw Barcelona fans cause trouble in Rotterdam - fighting with Police.
So RAM, believe what the press says if you want... but don't open your mouth and accuse us of being the worst fans... all it takes is a mindless few to brainwash the braindead. As for our Prime Minister... well he's totally out of touch with everyone over here and he'll say anything to his 'European' buddies because he's loves Europe with a passion, even if it means selling us out.
Nexx
BTW... I'm only half English! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Replicant (edited 12-23-2000).]
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Well said, Nexx.
hehehe Toad (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif), lunch between our people and their people ends up being a 7 day affair, costing millions of pounds when it comes to the EU.
But hey, that's the post-modern capitalistic approach. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Beats smacking the living daylights out of each other, which has been the norm for the last couple of thousand years.
Now if the rest of Europe is only prepared to bow to the British people's instinct to reign supreme, we'd get on like a house on fire...
... maybe that's the wrong metaphor to use. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Yes, it's a relative small group of english fans/hooligans that are causing the problems, but that small group is still bigger and more aggressive than any other country small group.
It's been fairly well documented, especially in tons of documentaries here in the UK!.
After virtually every single match where England looses at home, you can forget about going into the West End (I work there), as there will be people going on the rampage.
No, they aren't doing the game of football any good and it that sense probably arent "true" supporters, but they're there.
Ignoring them, wont make them go away.
Daff
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Hehehehe...
Fun to watch the Euro's go after each other once in a while (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Its kinda sad that we don't have a sport in the USA that we have such high regard for.
AKDejaVu
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I disagree, AkDejavu. I think the way that the Americans approach sport is the right way..as entertainment and not a lifestyle.
Here, football has become a religion.
Daff
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CO, 56th Fighter Group
"This is Yardstick. Follow me"
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I don't know about that, Daff. I'm a great fan of baseball, but it's sad to go to games these days. Seems like most people go to the ballpark to either:
- pickup women/men
- get special freebies/collectibles
- be where everyone else is at
- see if they figure out in which hat the ball went(game on the big screen in between innings, so people don't get bored)
- watch a guy in a cartoonish animal costume do smart animal tricks
I'd say one in ten actually watches the ballgame in Seattle.
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I agree Leonid.. very few sports fans these days. Most just go because its "good entertainment".
AKDejaVu
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Well, the couple of baseball games I've seen in the US, the weather was windy, cold and rainy (In Candlestick park, so go figure) and people seemed to be there for the game (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
OTOH, I'd rather they went there for all the reasons you listed above than going to beat eachother up (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Daff
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CO, 56th Fighter Group
"This is Yardstick. Follow me"