Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Guppy35 on May 13, 2007, 05:22:50 PM
-
I know this conversation has been had many a time, and I considered just forgetting it, but decided I'd post on it after my experience in AvA last night.
When I think of AvA, I think of Oldman, and I think of JG54. They represent the AvA to me.
Oldman is one of the class acts in the game and approaches it from much the same perspective as I do. All he's looking for is a fair fight. Living or dying doesn't matter nearly as much as the chance to test his skills against someone else.
TrueKill describes JG54 as the "Blacksheep" of the AvA, and I think that's said with a bit of pride for a lack of a better word. Again, they are a very visible presence in regards to that arena.
I know my time in the AvA is very limited, but it's limited for a reason. I keep being given reasons not to come back.
Two nights ago we had some decent fights for a time, before it became the race for alt and who could mug and pick the fastest. The Spitaly comments when maybe 1 Spit was up while the rest were 38s and 40s. The idea that "I'm gonna HO because of this" was the other bit that I just didn't get.
Last night I flew four flights in the AvA. I got HO'd and then collided with by Storch. No biggie, it happens. But it was a sign of things to come. The 109s all were perched at alt. This was ironic to me because the excuse was because someone had done it to them before.
Flight two was a 1 v 2 only to get HO'd by a 110 that dropped in while i was in with 2 109s.
Third flight same thing. HO shot by a guy coming into the fight from on high.
Fourth was the kicker for me though. 1Duke! was 5K out front of me. We were 3K tops and headed towards the other base. I said to him, lets let them come out and not mess around in the ack. Silly me. As I said it, 3 planes dropped on Duke from on high. They'd clearly been grabbing over their base. I was too far to help and he got nailed by all three. 2 109s and a 110 vs his 38G.
I then had to deal with those three who had alt, E and numbers. OK so be it. If it's a decent fight, that's all good. I don't mind dying. But two more 109s came in with the lead guy HO'ing me and taking out my Ailerons. I just sighed and waited for the 3 behind me to finish the job.
As 1Duke1 said, "Forget this. It's just a mini-MA", which was true. It wasn't about a good fight, it was about winning the fight as easily and quickly as possible.
All that being said, I understand it's their dime and they can fly as they choose. I said on 200 that "I give. If that's what the fight is in here, I might as well go back to LW".
Storch asked me what I was giving. I explained the above and got the same story about someone had done it to them earlier so they were just doing it back.
Then its the excuse of getting picked, Spitfires or whatever.
Again. it's their dime, so be it.
But understand, the AvA will remain what it is, a sparsely populated arena as long as that's the attitude. The guys who are there set the tone. As long as it is what it is, folks might as well keep flying the other arenas where the numbers are better.
Personally I think it's too bad, as I do believe there are a lot of us who'd love to have a place to fly where it's about the fight, not always winning. And I'm not talking about the perfect 1 v 1. I like 1 v 2s etc, just for the challenge. But to always have to fight higher, and numerically superior numbers, along with the HO shots at every turn, makes it kind of futile.
And to clarify the HO shots. When you are getting bounced by a higher, faster plane, all you can do is turn your nose up to face the threat. They control the fight as they have alt and E. All the lower guy can do is try and counter it. Getting HO'd that way gets real old fast.
Now, as I've said, my experience is limited in AvA so obviously my comments reflect that limited experience. I don't think the JG54 guys are bad guys, or black sheep. I do believe they could really change the tone in there if they chose to however.
Do with it what you will.
I hope it changes someday so folks like myself can find a reason to come back.
-
I remember the "I give". I saw a few 38s drop in on I think storc wilde and tbar while I was rolling. I then seeen you flying level so I went in and killed you (no one else was on you). As I said in the other posts when ever Jg54 does something"wrong" everyone hears about it and there are threads started whining about what we did. Again as I said before about the "spitaly". I said it after I sw more and more spits rolling, ad if you have played in the AvA as long as I have you KNOW any setup with spits in it will hve nothing but spits flying by the end of the week.
I did say that Jg54 are and always will be the "blacksheep" of the AvA, but hey someone has to be the bad guys it might as well be the guys flying axis. Jg3 an its offshoot Jg54 were one of the squad that kept the CT/AvA alive for all these years. When we did the Thursday night missions and it was BoB week and JG5 fly Ju88s and 109Es vs. SpitVs and HurriIs and we got slaughtered. But the very next week it was Lancs and mossi vs. 110G and 109G10 and we had to drop it becuase of the "no fair" whines.
The allied fliers gang, HO, pick as much as we do, but the thing is we dont go whining on the BBS after we just roll and get payback.
You know my "spitaly" comment was wrong your right no one is flying spits this week. and they sure as hell arent ganging or useing "Jg54 tactics".
These are just from today.
(http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1013733/spit1a.jpg)
(http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1013733/spit1b.jpg)
(http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1013733/spit1c.jpg)
(http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1013733/spit1d.jpg)
(http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1013733/spit1e.jpg)
-
Most definately a 'few 38s' was Duke and I and I was 5K behind him and 3 guys 'rolled in on him.
We had niether alt nor E as the 109s and 110 had.
So it goes.
-
it goes both ways... I don't really buy this the allies to this, the axis do that arguments. I think my experiences today are a good example of what happens. When I logged in the allies had a 2:1 advantage and the type count was 1 p38 in the stratosphere who wouldn't fight and the rest in spitV's with 1-2 of them in a hurricane. #'s were 6 axis, 11 allied.
First off a couple people could have switched sides and evened things out. But we (I was axis) were getting mauled soon as wheels came up spits were swooping in left and right. It got really, really annoying. As the afternoon wore on gradually the #'s evened out and we pushed the fight back over their field.. hell I was so tired of chasing mr. strato 38 around when he tried to land his busted up plane I took him out. Not normally something I would do (ok not normally something I would do in the AvA) but I was tired and frustrated. Anyone logging in @ that moment would have seen 2-3 spits hugging the ack while 3-4 109's orbiting the field picking them off. I'm sure that person would have started HO-ing.. vulching... ganging you name it all because the "other guys" did it first, it's a never ending cycle of dweebery.
When I started this I had a point... now I forget what it was.....
-
A couple of comments:
A. Oldman is nuts.
B. Duke is the best bai...errr...wingman in the AvA
C. This is an old story and why I dont fly the AvA the rare times I fly AH these days.
-
yes dan and I also apologized about the ram incident only to be lectured by you after your initial it's "ok I got another free plane". I get preached to on sundays and I ignore that as well. save your handwringing sermons for someone whom you might be better able to influence.
prior to your arrival and pouty exit we were subjected to endless HOing and picking from sondog, okllok and kronoes in stratohurriIIcs to the point where the gloves came off on our side. you came into a stirred hornet's nest of aggressive luftwhiners.
however in my opinion this is the real situation in this backwater of an arena. as long as the mostly absent managers of the AvA sponsor these types of setups that type of gameplay which we all agree we dislike will be engendered ad nauseum ad infinitum.
a few threads back some AvA staffer suggested I offer ideas. in that spirit here's an idea.
keep the setups to to two or three different fighter types per side. never should the hurriIIc be included and the spitfires only sparingly. the endless array of good and capable types offered on the allied side but with the inclusion of the HurriIIc/spitfire is tantamount to a hurriIIc/spitfire allied ack huggers engaging in annoying MA tactics and thats about it.
if this weeks setup were mine to decide it would have been as follows.
202
205 at back bases
109G2
109G6 at back bases
P40E
P51B
P38G
that would be the basis for an extremely competetive week and you would probably draw a better player/participant than the score conscious lot we see in the arena of late.
The hurriIIc only draws the lazy and gamey to it's usage, it should be eschewed in the AvA.
just my .02
carry on with your JG54 bashing if we tire of it we'll withdraw for a few more months until you guys start begging our return....again.
-
I think bottom line we have about half "fair fighters" and half "thugs."
After getting "thugged" about a while, frustration builds on the "fair fighters" who resort to thuggery in return.
Once the thug switch is tripped, there is no returning to the "fair fight" attitude.
"We were ganged by Spits, so we gang 38s in return." :huh
"BnZ 190s HOed me, so I HOed every C202 I saw" :huh
It is just an unfortunate truth that the thugs will win out every time, because the return-thuggery always seems to be indiscriminant.
-
Storch
So if I do it because they did it to me first is the rallying cry, then things will never change.
I sure wasn't in a strato IIc, I was in a 38G. I was lower on every occasion. I said clearly that I wasn't going to HO. It's not hard to check the roster with so few people to see who you are flying against.
None of the names you mentioned as having been HO'ing and ganging were on at that point. Two of your own guys were flying Allied out of 4 of us in the air, with Me an 1Duke1 being the others.
I'm hard pressed to see how you being pissed at someone from earlier translates to HO'ing guys flying lower then you in 38s when your beef seems to be with Hurri IIcs and Spits up high.
The logic escapes me.
As Oldman reiterated on the other thread. The only way this stuff changes is if the vets don't get sucked into that kind of MA garbage so that the AvA can be something different then a mini-MA.
I don't know how else to say it. And Storch, like it or not, your guys have had a large impact on the AvA mentality and can change it for the better by setting a different tone.
You keep finding excuses to not do it though, whether it be the planes aren't the way you like it or somehow someone has done you wrong so you are going to do it back to everyone else.
Do you have any desire for the AvA to be anything different then a mini-MA?
If so, what are you willing to do with your guys to help change it?
-
Originally posted by Guppy35
If so, what are you willing to do with your guys to help change it?
I say nothing but thats just me. I'm ganna fly what I want when I want how I want. Untill you pay my $16 I'm ganna be the biggest thorn in your side. I was telling storch erlier Im ganna fly allied easy moders for a while to show you guys what we have to deal with mabey then you'll know where we are coming from.
-
oh lord.
-
That's what i figured the answer would be :)
And it's your choice as you are correct. It's your dime.
And Larry/TK, give em hell. Shoot em all down in easy mode birds. Feel free to torment us all :)
-
Originally posted by Guppy35
That's what i figured the answer would be :)
And it's your choice as you are correct. It's your dime.
And Larry/TK, give em hell. Shoot em all down in easy mode birds. Feel free to torment us all :)
Oh I will. Ill be the l33t3st woobiecane and spitfart p1l0t in the AvA.
-
LOL fair enough. I'll be in a low 109G6 just to give you an easy target
-
Just to get this right. Is it a good or bad thing to fly as a squad useing "squad tactics" in the AvA? I'v been seeing alot about "we've been trying to get more people and squads to fly in the AvA..." So should we only fly as a squad when other squads are on?
-
Originally posted by Guppy35
LOL fair enough. I'll be in a low 109G6 just to give you an easy target
Okay Ill be at 35K gasping for air in my spit seeing if I can get to mach 3 when I dive in on you while you're fighting a P38.
-
.Just to get this right. Is it a good or bad thing to fly as a squad useing "squad tactics" in the AvA? I'v been seeing alot about "we've been trying to get more people and squads to fly in the AvA..." So should we only fly as a squad when other squads are on?
Sure, why not?
Don't recall asking for the perfect 1 v 1.
Lets just keep the fight at a reasonable alt, with potentially co-alt merges so everyone has a chance at the start.
I think its the idea of 3-4 on 1 with the 3-4 at alt all the time bouncing the lower guy that gets old for folks.
Most of us love mixing it up in a crowd.
Since no one is really dying, who cares. It's a fun challenge to see how long you can last.
If 4 of yours merge with 2 of mine, it's all good. I'll die no doubt, but at least it's not the pick em and B n Z em to death routine where the low guy is just putting off the inevitable against superior numbers
And if numbers get too off, one of the perks of the AvA is being able to switch back and forth. I sure don't care if a squadie shoots me down. I'd prefer even sides myself.
-
Originally posted by Larry
Okay Ill be at 35K gasping for air in my spit seeing if I can get to mach 3 when I dive in on you while you're fighting a P38.
LOL, I'm assuming you'll rip your wings off and auger into the ground trying to pull out while shooting at my 109G 20 feet off the deck so go for it :)
-
Originally posted by Guppy35
LOL, I'm assuming you'll rip your wings off and auger into the ground trying to pull out while shooting at my 109G 20 feet off the deck so go for it :)
Dont worry wings only slow you down.
-
Originally posted by Guppy35
Sure, why not?
Don't recall asking for the perfect 1 v 1.
Lets just keep the fight at a reasonable alt, with potentially co-alt merges so everyone has a chance at the start.
I think its the idea of 3-4 on 1 with the 3-4 at alt all the time bouncing the lower guy that gets old for folks.
Most of us love mixing it up in a crowd.
Since no one is really dying, who cares. It's a fun challenge to see how long you can last.
If 4 of yours merge with 2 of mine, it's all good. I'll die no doubt, but at least it's not the pick em and B n Z em to death routine where the low guy is just putting off the inevitable against superior numbers
And if numbers get too off, one of the perks of the AvA is being able to switch back and forth. I sure don't care if a squadie shoots me down. I'd prefer even sides myself.
But thats the whole piont. If you fly 109s and want a chance of living you need alt. The only german planes Id turn vs. hurri, p38G, p40s and spits are the 109E and 1190C anything else I need alt or I die trying to turn.
-
Originally posted by Larry
But thats the whole piont. If you fly 109s and want a chance of living you need alt. The only german planes Id turn vs. hurri, p38G, p40s and spits are the 109E and 1190C anything else I need alt or I die trying to turn.
If you enter the fight at 5K and nose down at the merge, how much E do you need?
Against those "Noobs' with alt today I was going in at about 2-3K and they were above me. The challenge was to counter that and find a way to win.
If living is your ultimate goal, then I suppose the odds against you at that alt are worse then if you are high alt booming and zooming.
I'm of the belief, that since i really don't die, that the challenge of the more difficult circumstances is more appealing. I don't want to control every advantage. I want to see if i can counter them and win anyway.
But then again I'm a sucker for the underdog role :)
I had one knock down drag out on the deck fight today in the 109G6 where I ended up with two kills on Spits that bounced me from on high and was in the process of knocking down a third when the 4th got me. I was working flaps,Rudder and throttle like crazy trying to force overshoots etc.
OK I didn't live, but it was a helluva good time and good fight. And again I had gone trolling for Spits at about 3K.
How you approach it is up to you, and for that very reason, other guys may approach it the same way, with a plane that you don't like. Their priority is living far more then making it a good fight. And it's their dime to do so.
When I was reading the old posts from the last time I got on the soapbox, there was one from you where you suggested losing the points, score messages etc. And you know what, that's a great idea because it changes the entire goal of the game. The fight becomes the priority, not getting your name in lights or worrying about your score.
I think most of us who have continued to play this game, live for those fights where it's 'white knuckle' time where you are really working against the other guy and the issue is in doubt. You are using all the tricks you've got and the clock moves so slow it seems like the fight is forever. Living and dying becomes secondary to the effort and the fun of those encounters.
Most of us can remember those great ones and continue to hunt for more. I'm of the belief the AvA can be the place for those kinds of fights.
Jeez I'm on the mount today. Guess it's because it's Sunday :)
-
so is the complaint the planeset ot the tactics used by some?
if it is the planeset, I would vote for storchs suggestion or leave the allied planes alone and add the 109f - seems odd to have the spitV and not it.
tactics can only be controlled by the players.
I do not see AvA as a room for "squad tactics" as there is usually not enough ppl in it for that.
It is up to the senior ppl and squad leaders to keep the numbers even as possible and limit the ganging, picking & hoing.
Sorry, the "they did it first" excuse is ok for children but I always learned two wrongs do not make a right.
-
Dan
I agree with you on all accounts but tbh where can one find a fair fun fight in AH?
MA? Sure sometimes one can find them and one has to enjoy them while they last.
AvA? well imho chance is a bit bigger then in the MA but low numbers make it hard.
DA? sure DA can be fun but its too contained and too set up to be thrilling... its a work out session and while workouts can be fun well they aint the real thing...
Tex
-
howdy eagler,
my complaint is about the almost incessant use of the hurriIIc in the AvA. the behavior of the players is inconsequential at best. in the AvA, ideally the hurriIIc should be eschewed, but if not then used only sparingly. if a hurri is needed for a setup we have the hurriI for the early war and the hurriIId as a ground attack platform. if a hurri was used in NAfrica/ italy it was a mudmover not a raptor.
let's check the honesty meter here. can we agree that the hurriIIc is incorrectly modelled in AH? during WWII this airframe was withdrawn from frontline service from 1942 onwards for a very good reason, it was far outclassed by all other opposing combatants by that time. it was relegated to an attack role exclusively where it performed brilliantly but it was a miserable fighter by 1943. the AH rendition will climb like a frightened angel turn about like hummingbird and shoot you down from 1k out with laser precision cannon. this may be ok for the abomination which is the MA but simply unacceptable and counter productive to the concept of what an arena such as the AvA should be.
it's time for these facts to be considered by the AvA staff and limit, if not eliminate this model's usage until such a time as HTC sees fit to address their erronious flight model for this plane.
howdy dan,
I can usually be found below 8k as can most of the JG54 players. occassionally we will climb if there are altmonkey types picking the low fights. like the times akak shows up or those other saps.
regarding the often visited dual topics of the HO and ganging, we know from historical evidence that it was the preferred method of attack by the American forces, especially in the pacific. the recent episodes of dogfights on the history channel serve only encourage and re-enforce this practice. as long as there are players who are willing to trade a death for a possible kill we will have the HO to contend with. we might as well assume any merge will result in a HO from the opponent and learn to snap that nose about tighter so as not to present that target. never the less a good number of our deaths will be the result of the HO.
I would like to continue visiting the AvA and I would like to see it grow back to the levels prior to the release of AHII. however I will not accept the bashing on the part of some that our squad is the root of all evil in that arena.
some of you guys whine an awful lot about my text etiquette while on line yet never consider that I seldomly initiate the exchanges but have a knack for response that irritates some. my suggestion is don't play with fire. to quote the rolling stones "if you start me up" some folks may want to keep that keep in mind before starting a text tirade against me or the squad. I relish those opportunities and to me they constitute fun of the highest order. I could care less about how it makes others "feel".
some of you guys complain about our game play ettiquette. I'll preface the response by saying that we seldomly fly as squad in any arena but when do we can difficult to fight against because for the most part we stay in 109s/190s/110s and do a credible job with them. at no times are there ever more than 8 of us on, with our few players we routinely run into the megasquads with bad results for them. we have become proficient in our chosen cartoon planes. another factor that affects others is that our squad turnover is very very low so we "know" each other pretty well, that leads to a fairly cohesive style of play even in spontinaity. JG54 is a successful veteran cartoon squad. we don't advertise for players, we don't have a squad night, we don't do missions, we don't participate in events, we seldomly co-ordinate in the tower and we don't often combine our attacks in the air. we recruit noobs that show a leaning to axis rides and help them move along from within the squad. what little we have learned we have done so by hours and hours of play believing that experience is the best teacher. the squad text and vox are an often profane commentary about our last deaths in more or less individual fights or WTGs for kills landed. to sum it up we're not the force some of you guys credit us with being. we just like cartoon german aircraft and fly them almost exclusively. I'm not sorry if we annoy you, personally I live for that and is a great source of gratification to me. I view you guys in the same light I view any competitor in business or in play.
-
Mmmmm... I like pie! :D
-
pi r gud
-
Storch,
In reply to your last post.
Regarding the IIc. I am not a fan of the IIc in any of the arenas. It turns well and had 4 cannon. That's why it's such a pain in the arenas. Those 4 cannon. In a furball it's a killer and that's why folks fly it. Like the F4U1-C or N1K, or even LA7. The multiple cannon make it a bigger factor then it should be as 1 hit and you are done.
You could argue the same thing about the 110. It was a miserable failure as a fighter historically, yet guys fly it a lot in the arenas as it has that big punch in the nose. I suppose you could argue about the 110 flight model the same way having seen that thing turn with planes it historically would have never been able to turn with.
But I believe it's the cannons that make folks take it. Easier to shoot people in the face like the Hurri IIc. I hate those things as i know anytime I'm nose on with one, he's going to be shooting.
As for the rest of it. More power to ya for your competitive nature. Personally I can't take it that seriously, but that's me.
Because you are a bunch of vets, and because you do fly the AvA, it would help if you'd use that status and step back from that competitive part for a bit, to help the cause, which is to build up the AvA population.
Again,helping to set the tone, knowing it's going to be a process getting some of the new folks to lose that MA mentality, would be helpful. That's all I'm suggesting.
And yeah that means not resorting to the MA type stuff when a new guy does it in the AvA. Better to start teaching them there is a better way to play.
-
Originally posted by Guppy35
Because you are a bunch of vets, and because you do fly the AvA, it would help if you'd use that status and step back from that competitive part for a bit, to help the cause, which is to build up the AvA population.
Again,helping to set the tone, knowing it's going to be a process getting some of the new folks to lose that MA mentality, would be helpful. That's all I'm suggesting.
And yeah that means not resorting to the MA type stuff when a new guy does it in the AvA. Better to start teaching them there is a better way to play.
Never happen Dan. Its asking too much.
-
Here's an analogy: The finest, most richly decorated house on the block encourages visitors in for a look-see. One of the visitors takes a crap on the coffee table in the living room. In anger, one of the regular tenants of the house takes a crap on the lap of the guy who just messed up the coffee table. In retaliation the visitor takes a crap on the tenant, who naturally is now really ticked off so he returns the insult. And the cycle continues with more and more tenants and visitors getting coated with feces. The result is the exact opposite of what the tenants want and the only ones who'll come to visit are those that like playing in a sewer. The majority of the tenants move out because they won't put up with the smell.
I'll occasionally pop into the AvA in the hopes of a bit of decent fun. Sometimes I find it. More often I realize that it was just the wind blowing the smell the other way so turn around and leave.
If it isn't text buffer warrioring it's the whining about the "unfair" planeset or the tit for tat shyte fights. Connect the dots boys, it ain't rocket science.
asw
-
What he said.
-
I second that.
Thursday Night 9pm EDT:aok
-
Couple of things:
detch01, that was a hilarious analogy. Gross, but funny.
Second of all, I hate to see the MA alt-monkey/HO/Horde stench seeping into the AvA, but I suppose it's inevitable, same way it did to EW/MW two weeks after the arena split.
Case in point, last night was wrangling with someone in a 109 (which I hate btw but was flying Luftwaffle to even the numbers) when he made two HO passes, firing both times. Got my oil on the second one. I texted on 200 that I was going to go land and deny the kill to whoever it was that HOed me. Turns out it was Jester from the 880, I was floored. He told me (and I paraphrase) that a shot is a shot. Must have been during or after a 'thugging' session. *sigh*
Anyways, I don't know what to say about it, if I continue to fly in the AvA and not take those HO shots, I risk getting shot in the face consistently by people I really don't expect to do that. I hate to stoop to the lowest common denominator, but I will not submit to being HO target practice for dweebs.
Like someone said in another thread, it's always going to be easier to just go into the hangar and pick a big cannon package and go shoot people in the face than it is to learn/use acm and tactics, so that will never go away. However I show up in the AvA partly because I hope to see a lot less of it there. I have no problem with getting my bellybutton handed to me by a better pilot, but it really takes very little skill to line up a HO shot and zoom by. 1v1, what's the point?
As for the Hurri (and other historically inept cannon planes), I agree there might be something wrong with the Hurricane modeling, it might be a little too uber to be realistic. However, I think the differences in tactics between real WWII fighting and this game might be the actual problem. Whereas lack of top speed isn't nearly as important here in the tight furball, it might have been a deal breaker in reality. Also the factor of self-preservation is missing in the game... I'll leave it to you to figure that out.
I certainly don't see what the problem is with the Spits. the 109 G2/6 is certainly its equal if not superior in most aspects, except sustained turn rate. I enjoy flying the Spit 5 and 9 very much, but I wouldn't say they are uber in any way. I truly HATE the visibility in the 109, but if it weren't for that they would probably be my ride of choice, it's got a much better feel (to me) than the Spit.
And to what storch said, I have to agree that I've never seen him initiate a buffer war, but man, can he get people worked up. Most of the time it's kind of funny, but sometimes it gets really tiresome. The pissing matches between JG54 and 880Sqn are getting really old and I could definitely do without having to see that crap on 200.
I don't have a problem with JG54, I think they fight very well, they don't usually HO and they are all very skilled pilots. Not the most polite fellows, but hey, they're Krauts, what do you expect? ;)
-
the only people that get worked up are those that have never been in confrontation. I can't possibly imagine anyone getting truly worked up over over what someone types on the intardnet. I occassionally I am appalled by what I read typed in anonimity but I can't see anyone getting pissed over it. then again I don't understand why there is homosexuality in the world either.
-
Originally posted by storch
then again I don't understand why there is homosexuality in the world either.
Then quit dating boys and think about it for a while. :D
-
what??? and go back to sheep???
-
Yeah can never understand why people get all upset and have hissy fits by what people type on the internet either. Then and go do silly things like say they won't go to this arena or that.
-
I'm not staying out because I'm pissed I'm staying out to see in slash can afford to pay six months of my game.
-
storch
you don't need to understand why, just just have to realize it does and act accordingly..
you do realize not everyone is a rough tough kung-fu grip karate adult AH master like yourself right? I just came from LW and heard what I think was about a 10 year old child on vox. they don't need to understand you are joking. and besides they may not know how to mute you in the game like the rest of us do :)
-
Originally posted by storch
what??? and go back to sheep???
You got a point, the fleas and ticks on them this time of year are about to make me swap as well.:aok
-
then I strongly urge that there should be a .squelch storch message permanently posted on the MOTD. I know slash is so broke he can't afford to pay attention, perhaps OM can do it.
-
Originally posted by storch
I'm not staying out because I'm pissed I'm staying out to see in slash can afford to pay six months of my game.
You can be bought for $90? If that's the case meet me by the ammo shed in the Blue arena, want to introduce you to 'lil Bug. :eek:
Reacting to what people type is reacting to what people type.
-
I can be had for much less :aok
-
Guppy35.
Great thread!
-
Originally posted by scottydawg
Case in point, last night was wrangling with someone in a 109 (which I hate btw but was flying Luftwaffle to even the numbers) when he made two HO passes, firing both times. Got my oil on the second one. I texted on 200 that I was going to go land and deny the kill to whoever it was that HOed me. Turns out it was Jester from the 880, I was floored. He told me (and I paraphrase) that a shot is a shot. Must have been during or after a 'thugging' session. *sigh*
Sir;
#1: Always remember Grasshopper - It takes TWO to HO.
#2: It really wasn't a "HO" in the classic sense of the term. You came looping around and showed me that pretty profile so I obligingly "Lit you Up" from nose to tail.
#3: As for all the "MARK 1., GRADE A BULL CHIT" that goes on on this forum about "HO'ing" - Has got to be the biggest LOAD of garbage ever!
You find me ONE former WW2 Fighter Pilot that said he wouldn't have took a head-on shot at an enemy aircraft because it "Wasn't Cricket" and I will never do it again. I promise. :rolleyes: Till that day, being the average pilot that I am - If I manage to get an enemy aircraft in my sights during a swirling dogfight - you can bet your Family Jewels I am going to pull the trigger no matter what angle the other aircraft happens to be placed at the time.
Anyone with half a brain knows you use every advantage that both you and your aircraft will give you. If you don't you are just plain dense or enjoy getting shot down.
#4: Actually Mr. Dawg, what was the saddest part of the whole incident was your getting on CH. 200 and going into "Over-Whine" mode about how you were going to rob me of my kill by landing, etc, etc.... You did notice that no one bothered to chase you down even though your aircraft was damaged and it would have made for an easy kill? Well some people you just can't be nice too can you. ;)
#5: For future reference, you don't have to worry about robbing me of kills. From the 6 odd years I have been playing here in AH and Warbirds before that - been CO of and helping form many other squads - I don't think I have ever kept up with my score either on each flight or for the Tours in the Arena's.
If I came home with my Wingman alive and we managed to hurt the enemy that was always my goal. You should try it instead of running your lip on Ch. 200. You might find it more rewarding. :aok
-
I have noticed that 90% of the time I get HOed in the AvA it ends up being Jester. I always thought he was better then that, but I guess not. The ohter 10% is 9.9% Pacifica and .1% some noob flying with a mouse that couldnt hit me if I was on the runway. It seems alot of people have been going for HOs alot more since Iv been back.
#1: Always remember Grasshopper - It takes TWO to HO
#1: It does'nt take two to HO.......It takes one to make a merge into a HO.
I know someones ganna whine about my 110 sortie the other day where I HOed a few people...........show me a film from another day where I HOed you when I wasnt geting HOed or ganged.
-
Just so everyone is clear,
I WILL[/b] HO, I will do it any chance I get, and I will not feel one bit bad about it.
:aok
-
Originally posted by Larry
I have noticed that 90% of the time I get HOed in the AvA it ends up being Jester. I always thought he was better then that, but I guess not.
YAWN!!! :o
See #3 please.........Thank You.
Your a really good pilot TK, most likely one of the best, it's really too bad you fall in for some of the others antics in the arenas and on the forums.
When you can match reputations with some of the old guys that helped build the arenas up as there were when we first started flying THEN you can worry if I am better or worse.
:aok
-
Originally posted by Jester
...
This, of course, is the other side of the HO argument. With, as required, a few ugly little barbs thrown in for good measure.
FYI I've been flying WWII sims for 10 years. And have been the CO of a squad as well. Woo. Hoo. Doesn't make what I said any more or less valid than what you said.
Also what Larry said. Takes two to merge, one to HO.
Whatever, mate. You fly how you like, I'll do the same.
That I whined on 200 was admittedly a mistake I won't make again.
-
Originally posted by Larry
I have noticed that 90% of the time I get HOed in the AvA it ends up being Jester. I always thought he was better then that, but I guess not. The ohter 10% is 9.9% Pacifica and .1% some noob flying with a mouse that couldnt hit me if I was on the runway. It seems alot of people have been going for HOs alot more since Iv been back.
You forgot 1Duke1 :)
Or Poland. I can't remember which.
-
Originally posted by Jester
YAWN!!! :o
See #3 please, Thank You.
You know there TK, if you squint just right you look and sound just like Storch! :eek: Always thought you were His and Wildsau's "Lovechild." :rofl
don't make me lay into you little feller, for you I'll play mean, not nice like I do these other fellers. consider yourself warned and govern yourself accordingly. :D
-
Originally posted by Grits
Just so everyone is clear,
I WILL HO, I will do it any chance I get, and I will not feel one bit bad about it.
:aok [/B]
No worries there Grits, you'll still miss
Cheers,
asw
-
Originally posted by Grits
Just so everyone is clear,
I WILL HO, I will do it any chance I get, and I will not feel one bit bad about it.
:aok [/B]
Grits, are you even flying anymore?
-
Originally posted by Jester
#3: As for all the "MARK 1., GRADE A BULL CHIT" that goes on on this forum about "HO'ing" - Has got to be the biggest LOAD of garbage ever!
You find me ONE former WW2 Fighter Pilot that said he wouldn't have took a head-on shot at an enemy aircraft because it "Wasn't Cricket" and I will never do it again. I promise. :rolleyes: Till that day, being the average pilot that I am - If I manage to get an enemy aircraft in my sights during a swirling dogfight - you can bet your Family Jewels I am going to pull the trigger no matter what angle the other aircraft happens to be placed at the time.
Anyone with half a brain knows you use every advantage that both you and your aircraft will give you. If you don't you are just plain dense or enjoy getting shot down.
Gonna disagree with your rationale on that jester.
Any WW2 pilot in a life and death fight that took a HO knew the risks if he missed. He died.
No on in AH or any other flight sim, faces that same risk. Show me one WW2 fighter pilot that would put himself in the middle of a low slow fight on the deck by choice? They wouldn't. They'd look for the best way to get the other guy while he wasn't looking with as little risk as possible because death didn't mean going to the tower and getting a new cartoon airplane. It meant you never flew again, your parts got shoveled into a hole in the ground and your parents got a telegram.
A HO shot in a flight sim where no one really dies, is just a lazy way out of the fight.
Now it's your dime, and if that's how you choose to play, go for it. But don't compare yourself and what you do flying cartoon airplanes to anything a real life WW2 combat pilot did.
-
Originally posted by Guppy35
Gonna disagree with your rationale on that jester.
Any WW2 pilot in a life and death fight that took a HO knew the risks if he missed. He died.
No on in AH or any other flight sim, faces that same risk. Show me one WW2 fighter pilot that would put himself in the middle of a low slow fight on the deck by choice? They wouldn't. They'd look for the best way to get the other guy while he wasn't looking with as little risk as possible because death didn't mean going to the tower and getting a new cartoon airplane. It meant you never flew again, your parts got shoveled into a hole in the ground and your parents got a telegram.
A HO shot in a flight sim where no one really dies, is just a lazy way out of the fight.
Now it's your dime, and if that's how you choose to play, go for it. But don't compare yourself and what you do flying cartoon airplanes to anything a real life WW2 combat pilot did.
Sir;
If you will re-read my statement again - What I said about a WW2 Pilot taking a HO shot IF HE HAD AN ADVANTAGE WITH THE SHOT - NOT - REPEAT NOT - BECAUSE IT WASN'T CRICKET or was not done. You confirm what I said by your comments on the game in your 3rd paragraph.
And as for the comments in your last paragraph - I wouldn't even BEGIN to compare myself to those Men who went out and faced the enemy in the skies or on the ground for real. I work with Veterans every week and I can assure you there isn't the least bit of confusion over what they achieved to save the World - vs. this "video game." I am proud to say I still stand open mouthed when I listen to their stories.
BTY, before you take the "Moral High Ground" might we inquire how many "Real Life Combat Missions" you have under your belt? If you have served in the Military you have my SINCEREST apologizes - if not - well.....
-
Originally posted by scottydawg
Grits, are you even flying anymore?
Not very much, sometimes not at all for weeks at a time.
-
Nope, no combat history at all. I've spent the better part of my life researching WW2 history and the people who were involved, whether it be the Spit XII drivers of 41 and 91 squadron, or helping families of a B24 crew that was lost over Vienna in 1945 learn about what happened to their MIA brothers.
I wouldn't ever put myself in the same league with those folks. That being part of my point. Apparently I misunderstood yours. I would also acknowledge a tend to react quickly when folks tie in what the real WW2 guys did vs what we do.
-
Originally posted by Grits
Just so everyone is clear,
I WILL HO, I will do it any chance I get, and I will not feel one bit bad about it.
:aok [/B]
And there's nothing wrong with this. (Heck, if you've been ordered to fly an A8, it's the only trick you've got.)
I think the refusal to take a HO is - or should be - a matter of personal pride, a challenge to yourself not to do it, to push yourself to get the kill another way instead. I can't see criticizing others for taking the shot, though once you get used to people not doing it, it CAN come as a shock.
- oldman (and when did anyone actually see Grits taking a HO last?)
-
Originally posted by scottydawg
You forgot 1Duke1 :)
Or Poland. I can't remember which.
Huh??:huh
-
Originally posted by 1Duke1
Huh??:huh
google 'you forgot poland'
-
OK...I'm just a simple man, what the hell does that have to do with me?:confused:
-
Originally posted by storch
I can be had for much less :aok
then answer your pm's ya monkey :)
-
Originally posted by storch
I'm not staying out because I'm pissed I'm staying out to see in slash can afford to pay six months of my game.
Doesn't work that way. If you want go ahead with the bet, it's on my terms not yours.
You know how the PM's work, let me know what you decide.
-
Originally posted by Jester
#1: Always remember Grasshopper - It takes TWO to HO.
It takes two to joust...
Anyway....
I have to admit it is kind of a fine line whenever I pull the trigger at an angle of less than 90* deflection. I'm sure I've crossed it before, and will do so again.
But all I can say for myself is you'll never find me firing at the first merge in a 1 on 1, and I'll never understand why anyone else would want to, either.
-
Originally posted by Vudak
But all I can say for myself is you'll never find me firing at the first merge in a 1 on 1, and I'll never understand why anyone else would want to, either.
I need to clarify, I dont shoot on the first merge, but after that any shot IMO is fair game no matter what the angle. Once past the merge I will take any shot of opportunity that presents itself, especially in a swirling furball.
-
Originally posted by Grits
Not very much, sometimes not at all for weeks at a time.
Thank God for small favors eh?
-
Originally posted by Slash27
Doesn't work that way. If you want go ahead with the bet, it's on my terms not yours.
You know how the PM's work, let me know what you decide.
see what I mean? the bet was accepted days ago. you just can't afford to pay attention let alone a bet.
-
Originally posted by Vudak
But all I can say for myself is you'll never find me firing at the first merge in a 1 on 1, and I'll never understand why anyone else would want to, either.
I'm with you there, I usually refrain from HO'ing any time. The main reason is I'm so lousy at it, I'll usually lose anyway. I will never fire on the initial merge, but I always look for the other guy to, so I try to stay out of his gun cone.
I think a lot of people mistake some high angle attacks for HO's I'll know if I'm on the losing end of a hard turn and my enemy gets his nose around first and fires, it looks like a HO. It's not a HO I just got outflown.
Eagler is one of those guys who can reverse on you very quickley. He'll flip that 109 around and be right outside your gun cone, but have you well within his. Then he kills you. Your first instinct is to think you got HO'd, when in fact you just got out flown.
To me the pure HO tard is the guy that ups a gun bus and has no intention of doing anything else but shooting you in the snout. Like everybody else I get mad about. Then I get mad at myself for allowing it to happen. If a guy maintains a straight nose on course towards you in something like a 110, HurriIIc, Chog, or any other plane, you can just about bet he has HOing on his mind.
I still fall for it a lot. It always pisses me off, but I always have to ask myself.. "Why did you fall for that?" If I try to retaliate like I said earlier, I just get a quick trip back to the tower. I flew against a guy in the AVA Tuesday afternoon on the merge he Ho'd me and blew me away with a 109 . I wasn't expecting it and was being a bit lazy. It angered me so I upped a P-38 with the intention of Hoing this guy,,,, he blew me away again. Both deaths were my fault I was lazy in the first encounter, and a lousy shot in the second. I upped again and avoided his HO, after three merges I had the advantage and could tell he really had no idea what to do when he couldn't HO. I killed him and thought to myself. I shouldn't have let him kill me the first time, always expect the HO!!
Guppy, Jester, I applaud your attittudes of keeping things in perspective. This is a game and nothing like what the real guys did. Nothing at all. It takes none of the bravery, dedication, or skill of real war, or even real flying. It also carries none of the consequences.
We throw the pilot term around pretty loosely in this game. I know there are a few others in the sim, but the only real fighter pilot I know of in here is 1Duke1.
This is competition however. Competitors are naturally aggressive, and it carries over into other areas of the sim. We lucky as hell to even have a sim like this to participate in. I think we complain too much and enjoy too little. If we can get the fights in the cartoon planes in AVA to the same intensity of the BBS and the text buffer,we'll have something.
-
Originally posted by Shifty
...
Well put.
-
indeed Shifty
-
Originally posted by Slash27
Thank God for small favors eh?
Just for that I'm going to fly this weekend *****!
"I vill break yoo"
-
Just had some good fights in there, most didn't end in my favor, but I enjoyed them none the less. Thanks to all the gentlemen in there, red25 especially, that was a fun fight - 190a5 against a p40, thanks!
-
omg - so there is a place where time stands still ;)
g'day AvA peeps
-
Originally posted by Redd
g'day AvA peeps
Redd! S! The skill level has gone up while the trash talk remains the same -just my opinion- but you're an welcome addition anytime, if you're planning on staying, mate! :)
-
Originally posted by Shifty
...... I think we complain too much and enjoy too little. If we can get the fights in the cartoon planes in AVA to the same intensity of the BBS and the text buffer,we'll have something.
This is a real good post Shifty . I think it is important to not only remember the ideals we chose for "fair play" in the AvA but the proper method to communicate them. That will really lead to a great community, which in turn leads to fun for all.
I know I for one have enjoyed the fights and great attitude in there the past few weeks. Contrary to how some may think. I believe how we conduct ourselves in the arena and how that is perceived has a great impact upon the "health" of the community. If people are really truly committed to rebuilding this arena that is something they must always keep in mind. A strong community will be our biggest draw over the MA.
-
Hi y'all. I'm too busy lately to fly my woobiecane. Play nice till I get back
-
Popped in for a bit again tonight (thursday). Once again had a blast flyin' and dyin' with my usual reckless abandon.
That's two solid nights I've seen in the AvA this week. Keep up the good show.
:)
-
Originally posted by Guppy35
to help the cause, which is to build up the AvA population.
This will never happen Guppy......ever.Many have tryed to draw crowds in the AvA with different advertisements(FREE 262's etc.) and when they come in they get what you just described.Now keep in mind when i get someone to come into the AvA i am telling them that they will usually find a fair fight in that arena , unlike what they find in the MA's and they go to the AvA as fast as they possibly can.
When i talk to most of these people after thier AvA experience they say that they prolly won't be coming back into that arena, which is very sad to hear from other players because it can be a very fun arena with the right people involved.:aok
-
Free La5s and Woobiecanes. I gotta try to get there soon. Hope some of y'all are there!
-
Originally posted by TheBug
I know I for one have enjoyed the fights and great attitude in there the past few weeks. Contrary to how some may think. I believe how we conduct ourselves in the arena and how that is perceived has a great impact upon the "health" of the community. If people are really truly committed to rebuilding this arena that is something they must always keep in mind. A strong community will be our biggest draw over the MA.
:aok