General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Canspec on May 09, 2015, 03:23:17 PM
Title: Old F@RTS
Post by: Canspec on May 09, 2015, 03:23:17 PM
This game has to many old f@rts and retired people in it. They never change their ways and are not open to new ideas. Their reflexes are to slow to be any good in the game so they should all quit and leave it to the younger generation to make the game better....... :old:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Mar on May 09, 2015, 03:29:24 PM
:furious
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Lab Rat 3947 on May 09, 2015, 03:29:55 PM
Enlighten me; what should be the cutoff age for quitting AH ?
LtngRydr
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: The Fugitive on May 09, 2015, 03:36:00 PM
This game has to many old f@rts and retired people in it. They never change their ways and are not open to new ideas. Their reflexes are to slow to be any good in the game so they should all quit and leave it to the younger generation to make the game better....... :old:
What are you waiting for? Make it better!
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Canspec on May 09, 2015, 04:08:54 PM
I'm waiting for the younger generation to do that.....I'm too old..... :old:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Lab Rat 3947 on May 09, 2015, 04:30:36 PM
Quote
I'm waiting for the younger generation to do that.....I'm too old.....
Then, follow your own advice and quit
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: bustr on May 09, 2015, 04:36:55 PM
The down side to old ferts is the over whelming combined resource of, been there done that in mind boggling permutations. Youth by definition have short attention spans, no experience, and don't consider much beyond it feels good right now. So what if I do X even if by Z I might need to be on life support and accidentally killed you in the process. Been there, done that, not interested in the stupidity.
Why do you want people to move over who have experienced all the same failures you are about to inflict on yourself? And then demand them to lie to themselves that it won't incur the same punishments it did all the other times they tried it until they got wise to that particular version of insanity?
You are free to incur the punishment alone and suffer alone for your inexperience. Let us know where to send flowers.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Canspec on May 09, 2015, 04:41:12 PM
The down side to old ferts is the over whelming combined resource of, been there done that in mind boggling permutations. Youth by definition have short attention spans, no experience, and don't consider much beyond it feels good right now. So what if I do X even if by Z I might need to be on life support and accidentally killed you in the process. Been there, done that, not interested in the stupidity.
Why do you want people to move over who have experienced all the same failures you are about to inflict on yourself? And then demand them to lie to themselves that it won't incur the same punishments it did all the other times they tried it until they got wise to that particular version of insanity?
You are free to incur the punishment alone and suffer alone for your inexperience. Let us know where to send flowers.
Are you on drugs by any chance.....you are talking like an old person...don't know if you are....don't care either... :old:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: bustr on May 09, 2015, 04:47:08 PM
I assumed you were with this tripe.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Changeup on May 09, 2015, 05:03:16 PM
This game has to many old f@rts and retired people in it. They never change their ways and are not open to new ideas. Their reflexes are to slow to be any good in the game so they should all quit and leave it to the younger generation to make the game better....... :old:
Gnat, you old booger...you soo funny.!!!
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Canspec on May 09, 2015, 05:24:31 PM
This game has to many old f@rts and retired people in it. They never change their ways and are not open to new ideas. Their reflexes are to slow to be any good in the game so they should all quit and leave it to the younger generation to make the game better....... :old:
When I was young, the Dead Sea was just sick :old:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: earl1937 on May 09, 2015, 07:03:18 PM
This game has to many old f@rts and retired people in it. They never change their ways and are not open to new ideas. Their reflexes are to slow to be any good in the game so they should all quit and leave it to the younger generation to make the game better....... :old:
:airplane: I WOULD TELL YOU TO KISS MY 6 O'CLOCK, BUT DON'T WANT YOU TO FALL IN LOVE!!!
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Canspec on May 09, 2015, 07:08:24 PM
Youth by definition have short attention spans, no experience, and don't consider much beyond it feels good right now.
What the? Do you even understand what the phrase "by definition" means? There is literally nothing about the word "youth" that includes short attention spans or what is considered by them.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Canspec on May 09, 2015, 07:32:32 PM
I was puzzled by that one too.....it sounds like the kind of phrase and old person would use..... :old:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Oldman731 on May 09, 2015, 10:01:56 PM
This game has to many old f@rts and retired people in it. They never change their ways and are not open to new ideas. Their reflexes are to slow to be any good in the game so they should all quit and leave it to the younger generation to make the game better....... :old:
Hey, you kids! Get off my lawn!
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: popeye on May 12, 2015, 11:22:36 AM
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: mikev on May 12, 2015, 01:45:55 PM
lol have to like this thread . you cant blame us old f@rts we grew up watching tv shows like Combat ,12 Oclock High , Rat Patrol ,McHale's Navy ,Hogan's Heroes etc . and thats not to mention the 1000 war movies about WW2 that probably inspired the creation of this game to begin with. :old: sure we need bionic arm replacement ,laser eye surgery, and regular colonoscopy tests but we are just showing you what you have to look forward to. :neener:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: mikev on May 12, 2015, 01:52:47 PM
lol have to like this thread . you cant blame us old f@rts we grew up watching tv shows like Combat ,12 Oclock High , Rat Patrol ,McHale's Navy ,Hogan's Heroes etc .
You forgot, "Baa Baa Black Sheep". Hokey plots, but those Corsairs were so cool. They must have had 5 or 6 in flying condition to make the series.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: matt on May 12, 2015, 02:41:53 PM
flakhapy :old:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: DREDIOCK on May 12, 2015, 02:43:04 PM
What the? Do you even understand what the phrase "by definition" means? There is literally nothing about the word "youth" that includes short attention spans or what is considered by them.
The word definition may be misplaced/misused. But the premise of the post as a whole is entirely correct.
There are smart youths who pay attention and take heed of what the elders say knowing they speak from a lifetime of experience. There is a reason why major decisions were left to the town elders and why the elders were the head of the family. (lest they suffer because of the inexperience, brashness, and arrogance of youth) And why there are more 45 year old Colonels then there are 26 year old Colonels. A very young Colonel is a very rare bird indeed (pun intended)
The elders and many before them have either learned from the mistakes of those made before them and taken heed when they themselves were young. Or have already made and lived through the same mistakes they see youths make or are about to.
Then there is the not so smart hard headed youth. They might be highly intelligent intellectually. But not so bright in the experience or wisdom dept. Smart kids that refuse to listen still tend to make dumb kid mistakes. They are the brash arrogant obtuse youth. Rife with life's inexperience. They couldn't care less what the elders have to say or the lessons they teach or what anyone else thinks for that matter.
The elders can talk rationally to them till they are blue in the face. They may even try the ugly but often effective "Patton" doctrine "When I want something to stick I give it to them loud and dirty. Then they remember it." Often because they see the dumb kid as mirror images of their youth when they were the "dumb kid" making the same mistakes, using the same arguments and rational.
Too hard headed for their own good. They think know it all already. That their way is better and only way. The moment and its short term gains is all that matters to them. But then again even ten years is a long time for them. When to the elders its a mere blink of en eye. The "Dumb kids" equate immediate and short term success with long term success, profitability and credibility Or that long term credibility is gained by short term success. They think its not how you play the game but that you win the game.
The elders know this just isnt so. That how you play the game is at least as important as winning the game. They learned through lifes experience that credibility, respectability and honor all go hand in hand and you cant achieve ultimate personally meaningful success in life, love, or even a game for that matter without them.
The hardheaded "dumb kid." just HAS to find out for themselves what the elders knew all along or had learned long ago.
Ahh but there is one certainty. One thing the elders have on their side. One weapon the hard headed "dumb kid" cannot defeat and ultimately cannot ignore or escape. And that thing is time. One way or the other sooner or later the "dumb kids" eventually get it. then the elders dont look so dumb anymore. As I told my kid and he has been comming to realise. "The older you get. The smarter I am going to become".
And one comfort. At some point in a future time. It will be today's "dumb kids" who will be the elders chewing on tomorrows "dumb kids" and they will find themselves giving the same lectures. Often using the same words they themselves hated to hear that were used on them when they wee the "dumb kid"
Anyone who is a parent of a kid older then say 10 knows exactly what I mean.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Arlo on May 12, 2015, 02:56:48 PM
This game has to many old f@rts and retired people in it. They never change their ways and are not open to new ideas. Their reflexes are to slow to be any good in the game so they should all quit and leave it to the younger generation to make the game better....... :old:
Quality troll, given demographic. 6/10.
Your father should have spanked you more.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: mikev on May 12, 2015, 09:41:48 PM
You forgot, "Baa Baa Black Sheep". Hokey plots, but those Corsairs were so cool. They must have had 5 or 6 in flying condition to make the series.
nope did not forget that series. but that was in 1976 when it first came on and even though i watched it was not quite the same as 12 Oclock High. your right they had to have at least 5 Corsairs in working order. both shows had a lot of repeat photage. my favorite was the fighter pilot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3ZCAfKlc5E
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Wizz on May 12, 2015, 10:03:15 PM
I need TP :neener:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Naughty on May 12, 2015, 10:36:51 PM
I had a good reply to this thread.. but I forgot what it was :old:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: mikev on May 13, 2015, 02:35:40 AM
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Tilt on May 13, 2015, 03:19:45 AM
its true that enthusiasm of those brimming with ideas is diminished by the perpetual "been there done that and it didn't work" nay saying of those with too much experience but with little to add in terms of expertise.
I often see an idea damned by the nay-sayers rather than developed beyond its previous limitations.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Changeup on May 13, 2015, 06:46:00 AM
its true that enthusiasm of those brimming with ideas is diminished by the perpetual "been there done that and it didn't work" nay saying of those with too much experience but with little to add in terms of expertise.
I often see an idea damned by the nay-sayers rather than developed beyond its previous limitations.
Plus 1. I see it everyday only the reasons are different. Those with expertise fear the full potential of an idea they ignored or poo poo'd knowing full well it was brialliant. It simply lacked proper execution.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Tilt on May 13, 2015, 08:56:36 AM
Plus 1. I see it everyday only the reasons are different. Those with only "experience" but little expertise fear the full potential of an idea they ignored or poo poo'd knowing full well it was brialliant. It simply lacked proper execution.
Corrected.
Please forgive the pedantry but I have a constant battle with folk in my business who only apply experience to a problem and never enough expertise.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: ebfd11 on May 13, 2015, 09:20:28 AM
last week. ..and thank you for leaving the curtains open :neener:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: bustr on May 13, 2015, 06:41:09 PM
Changeup and Tilt, you guys don't own your own company's yet??, while being able to see these essential truth's hampering all of those around you? The guy who owns a company that finds value in your obvious intellectual abilities, never makes statements like you both just did to an audience like you just entertained. He has the future of his company to protect due to his prudence and experience.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: DREDIOCK on May 13, 2015, 07:41:11 PM
Plus 1. I see it everyday only the reasons are different. Those with expertise fear the full potential of an idea they ignored or poo poo'd knowing full well it was brialliant. It simply lacked proper execution.
I've seen this too. Those with less experience thinking their idea was brilliant and only needed proper execution not knowing that the one/s with experience already had that brilliant idea and tried the "proper execution" and found that it still didn't work.
Not that new guys cant have fresh ideas. They can indeed and its always good to have a fresh set of eyes look at a problem jussst in case. But like that 26 year old rare bird. The fresh new ideas that work better are the exception and not the norm and often were the same fresh new idea the one with experience had years before and also at the time thought it was brilliant.
Buddy of mine whom we help each other from time to time were just talking about this subject the other day. Less experienced guy gets hired and gets the same great ideas we had when we were them thinking they found a better way. So long as they arent going to destroy something or do something thats going to be a detriment tot he job we will often let them go just to see how long it takes them to come to the same conclusions we did years before and on their own do it our way. Some are just hard headed and eventually we have to step in and put our foot down and explain to them that there is a reason we do things the way we do. They really arent trying anything new. Everything they just tried we already tried years ago.
Occasionally someone comes up with a gem. But there we are with that rare bird again
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: guncrasher on May 13, 2015, 07:51:07 PM
I've seen this too. Those with less experience thinking their idea was brilliant and only needed proper execution not knowing that the one/s with experience already had that brilliant idea and tried the "proper execution" and found that it still didn't work.
Not that new guys cant have fresh ideas. They can indeed and its always good to have a fresh set of eyes look at a problem jussst in case. But like that 26 year old rare bird. The fresh new ideas that work better are the exception and not the norm and often were the same fresh new idea the one with experience had years before and also at the time thought it was brilliant.
Buddy of mine whom we help each other from time to time were just talking about this subject the other day. Less experienced guy gets hired and gets the same great ideas we had when we were them thinking they found a better way. So long as they arent going to destroy something or do something thats going to be a detriment tot he job we will often let them go just to see how long it takes them to come to the same conclusions we did years before and on their own do it our way. Some are just hard headed and eventually we have to step in and put our foot down and explain to them that there is a reason we do things the way we do. They really arent trying anything new. Everything they just tried we already tried years ago.
Occasionally someone comes up with a gem. But there we are with that rare bird again
when I used to work at the insurance company we would hire new kids fresh out of college who always thought they had the answer to all our problems. I would give them a full day to try it and they would always come to the same conclusion the I had 15 years before. at the company that I work for, things are the same way. every single kid that gets hired always thinks he's go the answer to all our problems.
semp
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Wizz on May 13, 2015, 08:35:06 PM
when I used to work at the insurance company we would hire new kids fresh out of college who always thought they had the answer to all our problems. I would give them a full day to try it and they would always come to the same conclusion the I had 15 years before. at the company that I work for, things are the same way. every single kid that gets hired always thinks he's go the answer to all our problems.
semp
Ive always pictured you as the guy who outlasted everyone at his job. Walks around with some mustache and swagger... king of his little domain. I also had a feeling you were in insurance.
Explains a lot
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: guncrasher on May 13, 2015, 09:10:41 PM
Ive always pictured you as the guy who outlasted everyone at his job. Walks around with some mustache and swagger... king of his little domain. I also had a feeling you were in insurance.
Explains a lot
actually I shave above and below the neck. and I dont work at the insurance company since 1998. I work at a steel company now, just an average employee out of 1000. but I still have the same work ethics. they pay me I work and love to earn my pay. refuse to sit around.
and no I will never outlast anybody at any job. at 62 I am a gone mf, dont really care if I get less money than at 67 and 2/3's. we just had a guy retire at the company, he started working in 1957 here. strong work ethics and that old fart moved faster than most of us. now that's an old fart :).
semp
semp
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: bustr on May 13, 2015, 10:09:36 PM
Occasionally someone comes up with a gem. But there we are with that rare bird again
Suppose Hitech meant the same thing about the wish list when he wished players were able to know their bad ideas from their good ones.
After all this time, I wonder if you can only know that by being around long enough to get a feel for what is and isn't possible with the current code. Versus Hitech's willingness to perform kitchen remodeling in the tower because one group of players thinks it would be neet. That ends up requiring a completely new foundation has to be poured which unbalances the rest of the game. But, they argued the idea's neetness is it's validity. And worth any problems for Hitech as they voted like the Athenians for Hitech to play Socrates with his company. Athenian democracy was often fatally buggie with neet ideas.
Like touching the wiring in a 1930's house, ending up paying for new walls due to demolition of the lath and plaster along with a contractor to rewire everything to code. Who then lets you in on the secret that you will need a plumber before you can hook up your new garbage disposal now that he and the carpenter have seen your walls open and don't want to loose their licenses. And the problem didn't care if you were 25 or 65. Chances are being 65 you had a better idea of the extent of the fiasco versus the 25 year old who thought he was getting a steal buying that old house. Common problem in Berwyn IL where my wife owns a 1930's vintage brick and stone. Open a wall or touch the 1930's wiring, the city just sold you a complete remodeling or a tax lien per code. Catch-22, once the code forced remodeling starts, you have to upgrade your wiring per code. Neet idea to buy a cheap 1930's house.
Now if you build a new home, many things are possible. Especially for a master builder like Hitech. Hey!! where have all those master Athenian voters run off to??
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: mikev on May 13, 2015, 11:05:10 PM
actually I shave above and below the neck. and I dont work at the insurance company since 1998. I work at a steel company now, just an average employee out of 1000. but I still have the same work ethics. they pay me I work and love to earn my pay. refuse to sit around.
and no I will never outlast anybody at any job. at 62 I am a gone mf, dont really care if I get less money than at 67 and 2/3's. we just had a guy retire at the company, he started working in 1957 here. strong work ethics and that old fart moved faster than most of us. now that's an old fart :).
semp
semp
did steel fab for 38 years can relate to your thinking. took a couple years cooking college now semi retired working in a kitchen a few hours a night 5 days a week and can have vacation any time i want. no pressure no worries and keeps the bank account going upwards ... :cheers:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Tilt on May 14, 2015, 08:15:01 AM
Changeup and Tilt, you guys don't own your own company's yet??,
CEO for 26 years....... profit sharing and reporting directly to the main group board..... turn over approx. €150,000,000.00 per annum
Its this experience over expertise issue I fight day in day out........... indeed I personally have vast experience in my own business, its market, and (as an engineer) the product we make and the service we give.
I have to regularly stop myself being an experience led nay sayer and allowing expertise to have its say and show how it can be done better and more successfully this time round.
Experience is highly valued, but if you only rely on it without the benefit of new input from expertise then your future is self defining.
Never underestimate the ability of expertise to acquire experience............. never over estimate the ability of experience to gain expertise .....
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: DREDIOCK on May 14, 2015, 08:26:04 AM
CEO for 26 years....... profit sharing and reporting directly to the main group board..... turn over approx. €150,000,000.00 per annum
Its this experience over expertise issue I fight day in day out........... indeed I personally have vast experience in my own business, its market, and (as an engineer) the product we make and the service we give.
I have to regularly stop myself being an experience led nay sayer and allowing expertise to have its say and show how it can be done better and more successfully this time round.
Experience is highly valued, but if you only rely on it without the benefit of new input from expertise then your future is self defining.
Never underestimate the ability of expertise to acquire experience............. never over estimate the ability of experience to gain expertise .....
Its been my experience and observation that you dont get expertise without also having experience
You can have technical expertise by way of education. But without real world experience you end up with something like this
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Tilt on May 14, 2015, 09:43:21 AM
Its been my experience and observation that you dont get expertise without also having experience
Certainly expertise is enhanced by way of experience.............. Experience alone however is no substitute for skill, subject knowledge and the application of good judgement.............
The video of course just makes a mockery of the debate..............
Do I employ someone who is 20 years time served but only knows (and considers) one way of doing things (NO)
Do I employ someone who is 5 years served knows the basics but shows a propensity to learn more and apply good judgement (Probably .....in fact very often)
Do I employ someone who combines both the above (YES absolutely.... however its a "rare beast" as very often the latter turns into the former)
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Swoop on May 14, 2015, 10:41:24 AM
What Tilt said.
my Mother taught me to respect my elders, however, ive also worked out on the way that just because someone is older than me doesnt mean theyre not a small minded cretin. Sometimes i"ll meet a younger person with a much older head on their shoulders.....great example, i just started a contract for Carnival UK (cruise ship operators) to develop an app for revenue management forecasting, theres a lad been assigned to assist me whos a data specialist with the company and, in just 4 days, im so impressed with him ive taken his manager aside and told him this lad is helpful, insightful, has some great ideas and is tenacious enough that, if an idea is shot down for technical reasons he'll think laterally to come up with a different method to achieve the same result. In short, he'd make a damn good software developer if he had a grounding in programming techniques......and so ive offered to train him up as the project runs.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Changeup on May 14, 2015, 12:53:58 PM
Changeup and Tilt, you guys don't own your own company's yet??, while being able to see these essential truth's hampering all of those around you? The guy who owns a company that finds value in your obvious intellectual abilities, never makes statements like you both just did to an audience like you just entertained. He has the future of his company to protect due to his prudence and experience.
Oh Bustr...it'll be ok.
I manage 56 sales people and two div managers for roughly 50M. I don't need to own my own company to recognize the difference between good ideas and poor execution. Nor will that help me understand that people do not ever change their basic tendencies. Poor execution is a basic tendency as is never following through with great ideas.
Most owners don't have prudence enough to differentiate between their own experiences and "the way it's always been done". That's why they hire people like Tilt, Gman and I.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: GhostCDB on May 14, 2015, 02:31:01 PM
:old:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Kruel on May 14, 2015, 03:36:41 PM
The younger generation in this game is like the mid 50 year olds isn't it? Weee! :old:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: guncrasher on May 14, 2015, 03:41:21 PM
I manage 56 sales people and two div managers for roughly 50M. I don't need to own my own company to recognize the difference between good ideas and poor execution. Nor will that help me understand that people do not ever change their basic tendencies. Poor execution is a basic tendency as is never following through with great ideas.
Most owners don't have prudence enough to differentiate between their own experiences and "the way it's always been done". That's why they hire people like Tilt, Gman and I.
big deal, I managed 7 people and one project brought 30 million in profits just in one year alone.
semp
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: JOACH1M on May 14, 2015, 03:54:08 PM
I manage nobody but my self... Only working 3 1/2 months per year. (Full time college student) so you all can eat me with your million dollar talk. :old:
:bolt:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Changeup on May 14, 2015, 04:04:40 PM
big deal, I managed 7 people and one project brought 30 million in profits just in one year alone.
semp
It wasn't 'Risky Business' was it? :D
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Canspec on May 14, 2015, 05:31:17 PM
Only old f@rts talk about how good they are/were in business or whatever.......when all is said and done, no matter how successful you are/were........at the end of the day, when you look in the mirror to clip your nose hairs........you are still an old f@rt..... :old:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: guncrasher on May 14, 2015, 06:11:37 PM
well we both have as much experience managing a company like aces high.
And 30 millions is one hell of a hit wonder. mostly did 3 to 5 a year.
semp
Some of us do it every year...just sayin bud
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: dmdchief on May 15, 2015, 09:50:32 AM
I am one of the old f@arts, being 70 years old and I manage to pay 17.00 a month to play aces high, LOL and it is STILL the cheapest entertainment you can buy anywhere.
SALUTE ab8aac/dmdchief
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: guncrasher on May 15, 2015, 10:31:28 AM
This game has to many old f@rts and retired people in it. They never change their ways and are not open to new ideas. Their reflexes are to slow to be any good in the game so they should all quit and leave it to the younger generation to make the game better....... :old:
define old f@rts? I try new idea's all the time in the AVA and change stuff all the time.....and I'm OLDER....
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Canspec on May 15, 2015, 05:18:48 PM
define old f@rts? I try new idea's all the time in the AVA and change stuff all the time.....and I'm OLDER....
Old f@rts are often people who defend the fact that they are old by saying that they too have new ideas and change stuff all the time, just like the younger people..... :old:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Lab Rat 3947 on May 15, 2015, 05:42:07 PM
Quote
Enlighten me; what should be the cutoff age for quitting AH ?
I'm still waiting for an answer.
Hmmmmmmm, gee I must be too old for AH, I just remembered that I added you to my BBS Ignore List. That means I never get to see your answer.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: DREDIOCK on May 15, 2015, 05:52:10 PM
you managed a company like aces high? didnt know. which game, I would love to support a friend. please do send a link.
semp
That's why you're so funny Semp because you don't "get it" in such a fun, innocently argumentative way and yet stay balanced between idiocy and pretend genius
Businesses are businesses. They don't have IT Business school or Gaming Company Business School or Coal Mining Business school. They simply have Business School. Know why? I bet you're smiling right now you happy little crayon-eating cerebral giant.
It's all about the business model and its design for profit generation. Gaming is no different than any other company regarding a profit driven model. Understand the model and you can run the division or company.
No company can save its way to prosperity. Constant reinvestment is required. Biz 101. Does that apply here?
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: DREDIOCK on May 15, 2015, 05:54:27 PM
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: bustr on May 15, 2015, 06:33:47 PM
I like new ideas when they are not change for the sake of change.
Change for change's sake is a hallmark of youth, instant gratification, immaturity, and narcissism. When those fail, which is much of the time, the Li'll booger who wanted it, always seems to escape from having to face the music and clean up the failed change. Then some old fert gets stuck with some kid's unnecessary mess.
If you get forced to study 6-sigma, Hosin Process, or one of those schools of time and efficiency popular with large corporations. One of the names for those Li'll boogers is "fire starters". After BofA went 6-sigma, they implemented a team to identify "fire starters" then quietly "helped" them to look elsewhere for employment. Turned out being a "fire starter" was not specifically age dependent. Just more prevalent with younger people. Another kind of "fire starter" is a manager looking to make a name or move in the company not part of his job description. To make the change they essential cause havoc with the department under their care impacting revenue.
Guess then you weigh the cost benefits of more training and disciplinary actions, versus your quarterly numbers on wall street after laying off employees identified as "fire starters". BofA always looked good laying off employees to wall street.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Canspec on May 15, 2015, 07:01:25 PM
Hmmmmmmm, gee I must be too old for AH, I just remembered that I added you to my BBS Ignore List. That means I never get to see your answer.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Another sign of an old f@rt is that alot of the time....they just don't really understand whats going on.......and then add :rofl :rofl :rofl after their defensive statements to give the impression they have pulled one over... :old:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: guncrasher on May 15, 2015, 07:21:34 PM
That's why you're so funny Semp because you don't "get it" in such a fun, innocently argumentative way and yet stay balanced between idiocy and pretend genius
Businesses are businesses. They don't have IT Business school or Gaming Company Business School or Coal Mining Business school. They simply have Business School. Know why? I bet you're smiling right now you happy little crayon-eating cerebral giant.
It's all about the business model and its design for profit generation. Gaming is no different than any other company regarding a profit driven model. Understand the model and you can run the division or company.
No company can save its way to prosperity. Constant reinvestment is required. Biz 101. Does that apply here?
you know what the funny thing is and I am pretty sure you understand this. I am not sure why hitech didnt ban all of your squad. you have attempted so many times to disrupt the game and in here in the bb. You guys drove a lot of players away btw the way you behaved in both the game and the bb. You yourself would have gotten rid of customers who were driving some of your other customer's away. and even after being warned you still keep doing the same thing over and over, until some of you got banned from the bb. some of you guys are back with different accounts now.
Now you claim that you know the business model and know how to "fix" aces high because you are a successful manager at another company. You yourself behaved like a little kid when you didnt make trainer. You threaten to "hunt down" and kill all trainers that you saw playing the game. for days you talk about making it your mission. remember when you used to ask me all the time to go sink a cv then when you joined the muppets started calling people who sink cv's dicks.
what I see wrong with the game is some people who are quick to complain but dont realize that they themselves are part of the problem. that makes me smile sometimes when I read their threads.
semp
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: JOACH1M on May 15, 2015, 10:13:55 PM
I don't think I deserve to be banned... I have not drove one person off the game. Yes i do like creating a little sheit storm once in a while, but it's all in good fun. AoM has always been the the kind of people who weed the weak out, but the think skinned ones will stay and earn their keep. AoM did not like me for over 3 years when I began. (Little young punk calling out their leader, grizz, after he beat me) and here I am now with them 2 years after.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: JOACH1M on May 15, 2015, 10:15:52 PM
But the money schlong swinging contest is getting annoying.
Money isn't happiness, let me be the first to tell you that. :aok
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Changeup on May 15, 2015, 10:22:55 PM
you know what the funny thing is and I am pretty sure you understand this. I am not sure why hitech didnt ban all of your squad. you have attempted so many times to disrupt the game and in here in the bb. You guys drove a lot of players away btw the way you behaved in both the game and the bb. You yourself would have gotten rid of customers who were driving some of your other customer's away. and even after being warned you still keep doing the same thing over and over, until some of you got banned from the bb. some of you guys are back with different accounts now.
Now you claim that you know the business model and know how to "fix" aces high because you are a successful manager at another company. You yourself behaved like a little kid when you didnt make trainer. You threaten to "hunt down" and kill all trainers that you saw playing the game. for days you talk about making it your mission. remember when you used to ask me all the time to go sink a cv then when you joined the muppets started calling people who sink cv's dicks.
what I see wrong with the game is some people who are quick to complain but dont realize that they themselves are part of the problem. that makes me smile sometimes when I read their threads.
semp
But you being a smart rear to anyone and everyone you choose is ok? Come on Semp.
The other Muppets don't have anything to do with what I type Semp so stop BBS screaming. I know you're hoping it's loud enough for HTC to hear you...like a kid screaming "stop it!!!" from the other room. Lol
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: guncrasher on May 16, 2015, 01:45:25 AM
no changeup, i have supported this game more than you will ever know. not because I think this is the best game I ever played but because this is the best game that I can say hi to friends I met 20 years ago. i have paid for subscriptions for players I hardly knew then again when I was short of cash one 17 year old kid paid for me with his father's permission. this is the part of the game you will never know and you will never understand. I have paid for many player's subscription when they were short of money. not because I was being generous but because I was paying it forward.
I have donated hardware to other players but at the same way, I am not the only one that has done the same thing. then gain this is the part they teach you at business school is it?
at school they will never teach you that at some businesses is not about the traditional way you manage things. it's all about a company that provides a way for some guys to meet each other and have fun. not about whining because the trees dont look right.
semp
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Triton28 on May 16, 2015, 07:06:22 AM
no changeup, i have supported this game more than you will ever know. not because I think this is the best game I ever played but because this is the best game that I can say hi to friends I met 20 years ago. i have paid for subscriptions for players I hardly knew then again when I was short of cash one 17 year old kid paid for me with his father's permission. this is the part of the game you will never know and you will never understand. I have paid for many player's subscription when they were short of money. not because I was being generous but because I was paying it forward.
I have donated hardware to other players but at the same way, I am not the only one that has done the same thing. then gain this is the part they teach you at business school is it?
at school they will never teach you that at some businesses is not about the traditional way you manage things. it's all about a company that provides a way for some guys to meet each other and have fun. not about whining because the trees dont look right.
semp
What is this emotional mush? You just screwed up a fairly interesting conversation with your sales figure fish story/Changeup fixation so you could end up sobbing on the couch? Nothing in the above has anything to do with the challenges owners face when balancing the tried and true vs. the new and innovative. All you've done is proven yourself a fairly poor troll with no idea when to walk away from the keyboard.
Oh, and we all thank you for donating some subscriptions to people short on cash. I'm sure you're the only one that ever did that. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Changeup on May 16, 2015, 09:25:21 AM
What is this emotional mush? You just screwed up a fairly interesting conversation with your sales figure fish story/Changeup fixation so you could end up sobbing on the couch? Nothing in the above has anything to do with the challenges owners face when balancing the tried and true vs. the new and innovative. All you've done is proven yourself a fairly poor troll with no idea when to walk away from the keyboard.
Oh, and we all thank you for donating some subscriptions to people short on cash. I'm sure you're the only one that ever did that. :rolleyes:
I'm sure the other people who have donated time or financial resources to the game in the form of: Player subs, maps, CM, arena staff, skin development, historical references, A and B testing, keeping subs for years on end and never playing, etc etc etc. I'm sure those folks will be along shortly to tell us about it Semp.
No. Actually they all won't. They don't need to say it.
And Semp, they don't teach "Traditional Business" at Biz School either nor do they have that in any MBA courses. There is no such thing. You are confusing traditional with brick and mortar. That went away in 1996 when Al Gore invented the Internet. To YOU it's about some guys meeting each other and having fun...to the business owner or shareholder it's about making a profit. Do I need to cut and paste all of the references Dale has made to that over the last two years? I applaud him for saying it. It's work for him...not a night at the bar with the fellas having "fun"
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: DREDIOCK on May 16, 2015, 10:00:07 AM
I have a customer who when I was doing my first job for him other contractors warned me was a notorious cheapskate and had a habit of trying to renegotiate the prices after the fact.
After the job was about 75% complete he was talking to someone about money when suddenly he turns to me and says "Tom. You arent all about the money either are you?"
My response.
"Me? Not me personally. No I'm not all about the money. My mortgage company, Insurance company, My kids college, the grocery store and everyone else I get to pay on the other hand. Now THEY are all about the money. Oh and no. I dont renegotiate prices."
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: guncrasher on May 16, 2015, 10:52:19 AM
What is this emotional mush? You just screwed up a fairly interesting conversation with your sales figure fish story/Changeup fixation so you could end up sobbing on the couch? Nothing in the above has anything to do with the challenges owners face when balancing the tried and true vs. the new and innovative. All you've done is proven yourself a fairly poor troll with no idea when to walk away from the keyboard.
Oh, and we all thank you for donating some subscriptions to people short on cash. I'm sure you're the only one that ever did that. :rolleyes:
actually it was you guys as usual who started throwing numbers around.
semp
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: 68ZooM on May 16, 2015, 11:19:28 AM
But the money schlong swinging contest is getting annoying.
Money isn't happiness, let me be the first to tell you that. :aok
With age comes wisdom, at first you were a cocky little sheit when you first came into this game but you have seemed to figure it out that's good trait of a quality young man. Wtg
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Changeup on May 16, 2015, 11:28:14 AM
But the money schlong swinging contest is getting annoying.
Money isn't happiness, let me be the first to tell you that. :aok
Money is a by product.
The schlong swinging is more about experience, responsibility, accomplishment, and recognition. Those ARE a few of the variables of personal happiness. I think everyone here will agree most of us have two lives...personal and career. The variables I listed do not define any of us...but they are a big part of who each of us are.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: DREDIOCK on May 16, 2015, 12:10:32 PM
With age comes wisdom, at first you were a cocky little sheit when you first came into this game but you have seemed to figure it out that's good trait of a quality young man. Wtg
Ahh but there is one certainty. One thing the elders have on their side. One weapon the hard headed "dumb kid" cannot defeat and ultimately cannot ignore or escape. And that thing is time. One way or the other sooner or later the "dumb kids" eventually get it.
And to another point. to the experience vs expertise debate
While it s true experience is no guarantee of expertise
You dont get to be an "expert" without also having experience. Period. If you did. West Point Grads would immediately be appointed Generals
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: ink on May 16, 2015, 12:21:44 PM
What is this emotional mush? You just screwed up a fairly interesting conversation with your sales figure fish story/Changeup fixation so you could end up sobbing on the couch? Nothing in the above has anything to do with the challenges owners face when balancing the tried and true vs. the new and innovative. All you've done is proven yourself a fairly poor troll with no idea when to walk away from the keyboard.
Oh, and we all thank you for donating some subscriptions to people short on cash. I'm sure you're the only one that ever did that. :rolleyes:
that's what makes it so funny about you guys. all of you can be very successful at whatever you do and you can throw figures around. but if another guy comes in and mentions what he does then it must either be a fluke or a lie. or as changeup mention a one hit wonder.
semp
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Mar on May 16, 2015, 02:11:37 PM
This one time I made $1 by selling a glass of lemonade. :old:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Triton28 on May 16, 2015, 02:32:51 PM
and yet you accused me of messing up a pretty good convesation by throwing numbers around.
that's what makes it so funny about you guys. all of you can be very successful at whatever you do and you can throw figures around. but if another guy comes in and mentions what he does then it must either be a fluke or a lie. or as changeup mention a one hit wonder.
semp
You're rationalizing. You trying to measure up to Changeup is not the same as Tilt and Changeup responding to Bustr's sarcastic and overly wordy challenge of their managerial experience.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: mikev on May 16, 2015, 02:34:13 PM
It never ceases to amaze me that almost every single player here:
Was the quarterback in high school didnt play sports the short time I was in public schools was to busy getting laid :D
Married the prom queen she was anything but the prom queen :O
Drives or did drive the coolest cars ever made Dodge Challenger certainly one of the most sought after old Muscle cars today
Is a millionaire not even close....probably the exact opposite
Has never failed at any endeavor haha learning to script is so far from me just havnt been able to figure it out yet....:-(
Would be a natural pilot the first time they ever flew IRL the one time I flew a decathlon.... controlling it was quite easy...but vertigo played hell with me...
Has a genius level IQ spot on.... :D
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Changeup on May 16, 2015, 03:37:47 PM
It never ceases to amaze me that almost every single player here:
Was the quarterback in high school
Married the prom queen
Drives or did drive the coolest cars ever made
Is a millionaire
Has never failed at any endeavor
Would be a natural pilot the first time they ever flew IRL
Has a genius level IQ
This sounds like bitterness. Don't confuse hubris with truthfully answering someone who mildly called you out. It would make you sound bitter and disruptive for the sake of being bitter and disruptive.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Arlo on May 16, 2015, 03:43:33 PM
Don't confuse skepticism for bitterness. ;)
I'm a doctor, I'm a lawyer .... I'm a movie star ..... I'm an astronaut ..... and I own this bar ..... :lol
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Hungry on May 16, 2015, 04:03:09 PM
Here we go again the vocal minority thinks they know best, as a group its the same people over an over again, what are you guys less than 5 or 10% of the paid player base?
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Canspec on May 16, 2015, 04:45:30 PM
Here we go again the vocal minority thinks they know best, as a group its the same people over an over again, what are you guys less than 5 or 10% of the paid player base?
Ignore them.....they are displaying all the traits of being old f@rts ....which is what this discussion is really about.....Actually I think the percentage of the old f@rt player base in the game is quite a bit higher..... :old:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Changeup on May 16, 2015, 04:48:47 PM
This game has to many old f@rts and retired people in it. They never change their ways and are not open to new ideas. Their reflexes are to slow to be any good in the game so they should all quit and leave it to the younger generation to make the game better....... :old:
Get off my lawn! Dang kids and their rock and roll music
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: bustr on May 17, 2015, 02:23:22 PM
Wish it was rock n roll music.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: guncrasher on May 18, 2015, 12:48:27 AM
to old you fars, if you know every single word here or if you dont remember it then you really are an old fart
semp
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: MajWoody on May 18, 2015, 07:12:56 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz-z_TeJObU
:devil
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: ebfd11 on May 18, 2015, 07:24:09 AM
No if you are an OLD F@RT you might remember this one...
For those who can not see it .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9esWG6A6g-k
LawnDart
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: DREDIOCK on May 18, 2015, 08:53:55 AM
Our heyday was the era of an explosion of great music from just about every genre. Pick the style and each was chock full of not just bands and performers. But super bands and performers.
Dont get me wrong. There are some really really good bands and performers out there now. But nothing like it was then.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Delirium on May 18, 2015, 10:13:40 AM
I am not sure why hitech didnt ban all of your squad. you have attempted so many times to disrupt the game and in here in the bb.
I have flown with the Muppets and even with Muppet squad tags once upon a time. I haven't seen any disruptions in the game caused by them, unless you count the individuals that get angry after their cartoon ego get bruised.
As for the forums, well we as a community should thank the Muppets for the FlyinFin incident. Not a day went by when FlyinFin wouldn't accuse me (and the rest of my old squadron) of cheating.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 18, 2015, 11:06:57 AM
This one time I made $1 by selling a glass of lemonade. :old:
Hmm yeahhh, we are just gonna need to take 30% tax off that, ohhh and if you could go ahead and give us that 10% SS as well that would be greaattt. Have fun with your 60 cents!! :old:
I have flown with the Muppets and even with Muppet squad tags once upon a time. I haven't seen any disruptions in the game caused by them, unless you count the individuals that get angry after their cartoon ego get bruised.
As for the forums, well we as a community should thank the Muppets for the FlyinFin incident. Not a day went by when FlyinFin wouldn't accuse me (and the rest of my old squadron) of cheating.
We are the blacksheep squadron of AH. And if anyone tries anything funny we are the first to stop them and ridicule them. However, most of us enjoy training newer sticks and enjoy the community. As a squad in the FSO we are like no other. May even have one of the best K/D's in FSO, and for years have obtained the best pilots in the game. We like furball and shoot down as many reds as we can. We all have a similar personality trait and that is to be the best or attempt to be the best, and we pride ourselves off it.
Just watch out when we are coming for you :t
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Changeup on May 18, 2015, 11:20:30 AM
I have flown with the Muppets and even with Muppet squad tags once upon a time. I haven't seen any disruptions in the game caused by them, unless you count the individuals that get angry after their cartoon ego get bruised.
As for the forums, well we as a community should thank the Muppets for the FlyinFin incident. Not a day went by when FlyinFin wouldn't accuse me (and the rest of my old squadron) of cheating.
:salute
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Canspec on May 18, 2015, 03:21:26 PM
This Muppet love just brings tears to my eyes....sniff....sniff....................to bad they are all old f@rts....... :old:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: ink on May 18, 2015, 03:30:35 PM
This Muppet love just brings tears to my eyes....sniff....sniff............to bad they are all old f@rts....... :old:
pfft I will have you know....I am 45 years young....can still do everything...well almost :uhoh everything I could at 18....
now it just hurts doing it.... :furious :furious
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Canspec on May 18, 2015, 07:30:00 PM
Yes...you are a short timer.....the first indication of approaching old f@rtedness is having to say that you can still do everything that you could do when you were 18........ :old:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: DREDIOCK on May 18, 2015, 08:12:19 PM
Yes...you are a short timer.....the first indication of approaching old f@rtedness is having to say that you can still do everything that you could do when you were 18........ :old:
Every year for the last 10 years I've picked a tree I had to jump up to to reach its lowest limb then climb that tree. Just to prove to myself I still can.
Course it helps I often get to climb things and sometimes have to contort my body into unusual positions as part of my work. Im in much better shape then most desk jockeys I know my age.
It cracks me up these youngsters that spend all kinds of time in the gym. sure they look good but most of the things they develop arent useful for much more then looks. My son when he worked for me was that way. Got himself all beefed up yet would struggle to help me move things around I move with relative ease. I would mock "Mr muscle. Spend all that time working out and and you struggle to move this?"
He finally got wise and changed his routine to include muscles he might actually use for something. Like carrying 2-5 gallon buckets of paint up 3 flights of stairs.
Then things got more fun as I discovered I could now take advantage of this. So whenever I wanted something carried I'd point to the item and say "Igor..lift" LMAO
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: A8TOOL on May 22, 2015, 08:26:07 PM
Guess I'm one. Air Warrior 94 till end... then here. Just turned 70
Best team oriented squad I ever had the privilege of being a part of was with the Aces & 8's. 200+ base takes a month and over 10,000 kills
I don't know what goes through his mind after leading such a successful squad to not leading at all but a firm crisp Salute to you A8BALLS. Best CO I ever had.
If I could just do it one more time for a month I'd be happy.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Changeup on May 23, 2015, 10:24:11 AM
Guess I'm one. Air Warrior 94 till end... then here. Just turned 70
Best team oriented squad I ever had the privilege of being a part of was with the Aces & 8's. 200+ base takes a month and over 10,000 kills
I don't know what goes through his mind after leading such a successful squad to not leading at all but a firm crisp Salute to you A8BALLS. Best CO I ever had.
If I could just do it one more time for a month I'd be happy.
<S> Aces and 8's. Those guys were the shiiiiiiit. Reminded me a lot of the POTW. They'd roll ya, defend your base to the end, fight ya, gang ya, 1 v 1 ya, vulch, pick, talk smack then rinse and repeat. They were great fun to fight.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: OldBull on May 23, 2015, 02:35:28 PM
Ahem Sir, Mr Canspec, OldBull shyly raises his hand from the back of the briefing auditorium. Sir did you have a specific age that you would recommend that we be put out to pasture or will all of us you deem too old to contribute just be evicted at one time, will there be a board to make this decision or should it just be solely at the discretion of young bright minds like yours? Could we stay a little longer if we promise to play quietly over in the corner of the map and not bother any of the young, bright, fast thinking players, you know the good pilots. Is this proposal of yours to take place immediately or will us ole relics be allowed to finish out the month, hell a couple of us will probably just die off by the end of the month of natural causes. Have you given any thought as to how this purge of yours might affect your score? With all of us elder aviators thrown out where would all your easy kills and score padding come from without all the old blind guys to vulch? But I have no doubt that you are right, I am sure it is past time for all us ole dinosaurs to step aside, maybe I'll take up Pong, but in parting let me say this son, time goes by very fast and in only a blink of an eye it will be you who will be old and in the way, holding up progress with your old ideas, why it seems like it was just yesterday a bunch of us were sitting in the back of that old bicycle shop in Dayton listening to Orvell and Wilbur talking about building a flying machine, ha, what nonsense!!.
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Canspec on May 23, 2015, 09:11:43 PM
Ahem Sir, Mr Canspec, OldBull shyly raises his hand from the back of the briefing auditorium. Sir did you have a specific age that you would recommend that we be put out to pasture or will all of us you deem too old to contribute just be evicted at one time, will there be a board to make this decision or should it just be solely at the discretion of young bright minds like yours? Could we stay a little longer if we promise to play quietly over in the corner of the map and not bother any of the young, bright, fast thinking players, you know the good pilots. Is this proposal of yours to take place immediately or will us ole relics be allowed to finish out the month, hell a couple of us will probably just die off by the end of the month of natural causes. Have you given any thought as to how this purge of yours might affect your score? With all of us elder aviators thrown out where would all your easy kills and score padding come from without all the old blind guys to vulch? But I have no doubt that you are right, I am sure it is past time for all us ole dinosaurs to step aside, maybe I'll take up Pong, but in parting let me say this son, time goes by very fast and in only a blink of an eye it will be you who will be old and in the way, holding up progress with your old ideas, why it seems like it was just yesterday a bunch of us were sitting in the back of that old bicycle shop in Dayton listening to Orvell and Wilbur talking about building a flying machine, ha, what nonsense!!.
Specific age as I stated before...."The age when you start to grow long hair on your ears and clipping your nose hairs becomes a daily necessity......"
All the rest is old f@rt speak and not of interest to a younger type like me.....:old:
Title: Re: Old F@RTS
Post by: Canspec on May 23, 2015, 09:37:10 PM
.....and while we are on the subject of nose hair.....please....for all you old f@rts that haven't recognized that you are old f@rts..... three inch nose hairs hanging out and blowing in the breeze is not attractive nor fun to look at.......jeez...I saw one today at the airport that I could have used to determine wind direction prior to take off.....:old: