Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: lyric1 on April 13, 2017, 05:49:08 PM
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Well here is one for you P-38 guys.
Not that fancy in terms of colour or much else but it meets the criteria if you want to do something different.
8TH PRG India 1944.
F4-1 LO S/N 41-2145
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/130588-rs-models-92115-f-4-f-4a-lightning
http://rsmodels.cz/en/modely-letadel/plastikove-modely/1-72/92115/f-4-f-4a-lightning
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/9affd47a-2222-444a-ada7-a32290679d81_zpsgytvpa5a.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/9affd47a-2222-444a-ada7-a32290679d81_zpsgytvpa5a.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/14192132_10209064927934683_2762704274177771561_n_zpsdjqve51w.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/14192132_10209064927934683_2762704274177771561_n_zpsdjqve51w.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/17904013_1782544245092788_4509204080869430235_n_zpstrkavdxb.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/17904013_1782544245092788_4509204080869430235_n_zpstrkavdxb.jpg.html)
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Well here is one for you P-38 guys.
Not that fancy in terms of colour or much else but it meets the criteria if you want to do something different.
8TH PRG India 1944.
F4-1 LO S/N 41-2145
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/130588-rs-models-92115-f-4-f-4a-lightning
http://rsmodels.cz/en/modely-letadel/plastikove-modely/1-72/92115/f-4-f-4a-lightning
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/9affd47a-2222-444a-ada7-a32290679d81_zpsgytvpa5a.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/9affd47a-2222-444a-ada7-a32290679d81_zpsgytvpa5a.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/14192132_10209064927934683_2762704274177771561_n_zpsdjqve51w.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/14192132_10209064927934683_2762704274177771561_n_zpsdjqve51w.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/17904013_1782544245092788_4509204080869430235_n_zpstrkavdxb.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/17904013_1782544245092788_4509204080869430235_n_zpstrkavdxb.jpg.html)
I should try that one...
If nobody wants it I will take a crack at it.
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Go for it man. :aok
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Go for it man. :aok
It's gonna' all be *YOUR* fault. LOL
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I'll take all the blame but none of the responsibility. :devil
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I'll take all the blame but none of the responsibility. :devil
:rofl :rofl
:rofl :rofl
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I should try that one...
If nobody wants it I will take a crack at it.
Decals and better profile image.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/92115%20decals_zpsprkcljeh.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/92115%20decals_zpsprkcljeh.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20F_zpsiurrwg7c.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20F_zpsiurrwg7c.jpg.html)
Plus a few other images to help you.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/img055_zpsimegtx4y.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/img055_zpsimegtx4y.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/img054_zpsaysco3gl.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/img054_zpsaysco3gl.jpg.html)
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Very nice. Thank you for that.
Is the belly sky blue???? I saw a model of it depicted that way.
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Plus the colour of the text on the cover of the book is white?
Also no red around the roundels?
Granted this book is from 1960's.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/img056_zpsce0m1sxw.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/img056_zpsce0m1sxw.jpg.html)
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Very nice. Thank you for that.
Is the belly sky blue???? I saw a model of it depicted that way.
Yes. :aok
I think all the text is white and roundels are blue not red.
Spinners don't look blue to me like the profile on the book.
Weird looking wheel covers as well.
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Yeah, those spinners are something totally different for sure.
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The spinners might be yellow. The color seems to match the text portion of "FOTO JO" and the plane number.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/14192132_10209064927934683_2762704274177771561_n_zpsdjqve51w.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/14192132_10209064927934683_2762704274177771561_n_zpsdjqve51w.jpg.html)
Also the bolts look closer to white than yellow.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/17904013_1782544245092788_4509204080869430235_n_zpstrkavdxb.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/17904013_1782544245092788_4509204080869430235_n_zpstrkavdxb.jpg.html)
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The most famous French F5 is surely the one from the French writer "Antoine de St. Exupery" which sometimes is portrayed painted all blue if you have pictures.
Otherwise here are some pictures of that French camoed #80 included in that board you posted:
(https://aquilaetinfans.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/p-38-lightning.jpg)
(http://www.ecpad.fr/wp-content/gallery/l039aviation-de-reconnaissance-francaise-en-italie-la-1re-escadrille-du-gr-233/AIR-57-1082.jpg)
(http://fly.historicwings.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/HighFlight-Saint-Ex51.jpg)
(http://www.ecpad.fr/wp-content/gallery/l039aviation-de-reconnaissance-francaise-en-italie-la-1re-escadrille-du-gr-233/AIR-57-1106.jpg)
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Only problem with the French scheme is that she's unarmed. As far as I am aware, HTC won't allow for unarmed PR planes being skinned onto our armed variants. The one lyric posted however, IS armed. So I don't think there will be an issued with getting her skinned. :headscratch: Whoever is going to skin this should check with HTC to make sure. :aok
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Yes, only armed recon planes are allowed.
I have an armed recon P-40C in RAF colors in game.
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Yes, only armed recon planes are allowed.
I have an armed recon P-40C in RAF colors in game.
Then this means the one lyric posted is good to go. :x
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Then this means the one lyric posted is good to go. :x
Few more images.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/WSB007_zpse4zgstoo.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/WSB007_zpse4zgstoo.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/WSB008_zpsw207hu8m.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/WSB008_zpsw207hu8m.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/WSB006_zpso785dif6.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/WSB006_zpso785dif6.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/WSB-9thPRS-17_zpsqwtqclbx.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/WSB-9thPRS-17_zpsqwtqclbx.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/EM018_zpshqj3qv6g.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/EM018_zpshqj3qv6g.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/KD102_zpsd5sqciof.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/KD102_zpsd5sqciof.jpg.html)
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How is it there are more pics of this P-38 than John Godfrey's original P-51B or Hively's P-51D?
Is there something I'm missing?
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Is there something I'm missing?
Yes two of them are mounted on the nose of the plane.
Because this thing had machine guns within the recon community this would be a extremely rare thing.
So everyone took photos of it.
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How is it there are more pics of this P-38 than John Godfrey's original P-51B or Hively's P-51D?
Is there something I'm missing?
Also remember that an immeasurable number of photos taken during the war have been lost or forgotten. We only have access to what has been published over the years.
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Yeah, but Godfrey in particular was a prominent figure. His plane should be in newspaper archives or SOMETHING. Hively's, too, considering its uniqueness.
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How are there no known pictures of Hans Joachim Marsille's Bf 109G? He got the first one! And he is a much more notable pilot.
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How are there no known pictures of Hans Joachim Marsille's Bf 109G? He got the first one! And he is a much more notable pilot.
Because the Germans lost badly (a lot of their stuff simply sank, disappeared, or burned up)--and America was press crazy. Every hometown boy had his airplane in the local paper in the US.
For Godfrey's airplane to have no pictures while this 38 has a dozen is odd to me.
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You obviously don't realize that Marsille was a proverbial rock star in 1942. Every paper in the Reich had pictures of him.
All of his 109F's are well documented, but any pictures of the first Gustav in combat have been lost to time. If it can happen to him, it can happen to anybody.
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Who doesn't realize that? Lol
And you make my point.
Marseille's Fs were well documented as they served a purpose. The G perhaps not so much by that time. Yet, despite being lauded by none other than Churchill and being the top scoring duo in the USA Godfrey's airplane is almost unseen...but an obscure Indian Theater 38 is everywhere. It's interesting...
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Wonder what was going on here with the paint?
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/e76be283-85fa-44ad-9129-144c3be31a68_zpsawmopugv.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/e76be283-85fa-44ad-9129-144c3be31a68_zpsawmopugv.jpg.html)
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Shadow?
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I presume this goes on the P-38G as a substitute, correct?
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I presume this goes on the P-38G as a substitute, correct?
Yes the only P-38 we have with that style of engine nacelle.
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Yes the only P-38 we have with that style of engine nacelle.
Is the green OD or more along that lines of that snake green in the stuff you posted?
Also, I noticed a lot of stretching on the nose. Is this an older 3D model? Maybe I should keep my powder dry until it's updated if that's the case.
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Is the green OD or more along that lines of that snake green in the stuff you posted?
Also, I noticed a lot of stretching on the nose. Is this an older 3D model? Maybe I should keep my powder dry until it's updated if that's the case.
I think its a very early AH2 model. There is a lot of stretching around the nose and under the booms. I used to be pretty familiar with the model's quirks. The scale of the tail assembly is different from the rest, so a 1px rivet is 2-3x larger than a 1px rivet elsewhere.
Now that HTC has shown a new '38J in the works, I would expect a new L and G not far behind, so I think it would be smart to avoid putting a whole lot of effort into a '38 skin at this point.
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Few more images.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/WSB007_zpse4zgstoo.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/WSB007_zpse4zgstoo.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/WSB008_zpsw207hu8m.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/WSB008_zpsw207hu8m.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/WSB006_zpso785dif6.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/WSB006_zpso785dif6.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/WSB-9thPRS-17_zpsqwtqclbx.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/WSB-9thPRS-17_zpsqwtqclbx.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/EM018_zpshqj3qv6g.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/EM018_zpshqj3qv6g.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/KD102_zpsd5sqciof.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/KD102_zpsd5sqciof.jpg.html)
If it's possible why not colorize the photo's to get a better idea of what colors were used my 2 cents worth.
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Too many variables to contend with, if I recall correctly.
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You can't make color from no color. It would be 100% artistic and subject to whatever color the artist chose to put there, not what was there to begin with.
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(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/41-2145_FotoJo_zpszpnfpfec.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/41-2145_FotoJo_zpszpnfpfec.jpg.html)
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Interesting discussion in the comments below the model built of this bird. There is a strong argument that the gun barrels were nothing more than decoration as there are not the usual ejector chutes open for the shell casings and also concern that the vibration from firing the guns would have messed up the cameras.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47751/thread/1430923206/More+F-4-1-LO+(P-38E)+FOTO-JO+Details
CBI flown bird from the 9th PRS
http://www.9th.photorecon.org/index.html
Another bird from the same unit. Obviously fake guns.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Marge_zpsrmgxxigr.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/Marge_zpsrmgxxigr.jpg.html)
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Interesting discussion in the comments below the model built of this bird. There is a strong argument that the gun barrels were nothing more than decoration as there are not the usual ejector chutes open for the shell casings and also concern that the vibration from firing the guns would have messed up the cameras.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47751/thread/1430923206/More+F-4-1-LO+(P-38E)+FOTO-JO+Details
CBI flown bird from the 9th PRS
http://www.9th.photorecon.org/index.html
Another bird from the same unit. Obviously fake guns.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Marge_zpsrmgxxigr.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/Marge_zpsrmgxxigr.jpg.html)
Interesting conversations wont go as far as saying fake guns at this point.
For example they look to be blast tubes or flash suppression not to dazzle the pilot when firing.
6th NFS Had them on there night fighters.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Scan_39-1_zps6y03y6m5.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Scan_39-1_zps6y03y6m5.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Scan_38-1-1_zpsff5e87dd.jpgoriginal_zpsqhso6zgc.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Scan_38-1-1_zpsff5e87dd.jpgoriginal_zpsqhso6zgc.jpg.html)
Also an option on P-51's.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Browning_50_cal_M2_Aircraft_Mustang_Attachments_zpsg5tqb0fb.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Browning_50_cal_M2_Aircraft_Mustang_Attachments_zpsg5tqb0fb.jpg.html)
When you compare the two aircraft the outer 50 cals are about the same length. Now if I was flying around with fake guns I am sure I would throw on the blast muzzles just to make sure an enemy could see I mean business, after all the two 50's on FOTO-JO are very short and the enemy would have to be very close to see them.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/56f24dd7-cdfe-4b98-ba6e-0c8291b7234b_zpsymyvv8dd.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/56f24dd7-cdfe-4b98-ba6e-0c8291b7234b_zpsymyvv8dd.jpg.html)(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/9bbbdef1-ed5d-4b14-95f7-ab4d3ec7116b_zpsgmd98rft.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/9bbbdef1-ed5d-4b14-95f7-ab4d3ec7116b_zpsgmd98rft.jpg.html)
As a side note are these fake guns?
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/1526812_600569509998418_1692931138_n_zps0u4bnbup.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/1526812_600569509998418_1692931138_n_zps0u4bnbup.jpg.html)
The question is can two 50 cals fit in with all of their hardware with two cameras like FOTO JO?
Here is a few photos I found with the doors open on recon aircraft.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/d2d6e4fc1322d0b55bef4c235935ee69_zpslxkcvvsp.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/d2d6e4fc1322d0b55bef4c235935ee69_zpslxkcvvsp.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/IMG_20150208_0001_zpssemhlgrl.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/IMG_20150208_0001_zpssemhlgrl.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/images5_zps26dzbkb0.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/images5_zps26dzbkb0.jpg.html)
Now a couple of regular P-38s.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/a907012144b6c479e877fbec4d8aeabd_zpsctwva2ci.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/a907012144b6c479e877fbec4d8aeabd_zpsctwva2ci.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/p-38-nose-armament_zpsbxgckkby.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/p-38-nose-armament_zpsbxgckkby.jpg.html)
Based off of the above photos I would say yes they could fit them with some modifications. The real question that is an unknown to me is where did the spent shells go if they were active guns?
Looking at other P-38's I see 4 ejection chutes for the 50 cals I can't find a 5th chute for the 20mm though at this point.
Is this the answer a catch can internally?
https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/p-38-disposal-of-20mm-cannon-shells-and-links.24455/
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It's possible. I guess I'm just suggesting we don't have enough info to really know whether or not this is really a gunned 38. Trust me I'm not against 38s :)
We actually were able to use a recce 38 skin in a scenario where we had two 38s that flew without ammo and just took pictures of the targets. The guys had fun doing it as it was a different type of challenge. The recce blue skin looked good too. That skin was not one that would be allowed in the MA for the reason it was not a gunned 38.
This was the one that cactuskooler did for DGS II. Note he was able to make the guns not show
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/side-1.jpg) (http://s547.photobucket.com/user/cactuskooler/media/side-1.jpg.html)
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Colorized
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Added one more. How do you do the (http://)?
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There is an ejection chute for the 20mm cannon and it looks to go to a catch box.
It is just behind the 50 cal ejection chutes on the right side.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20xx_zpsqcxo5g5r.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20xx_zpsqcxo5g5r.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20cvb_zpsoamet2mr.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20cvb_zpsoamet2mr.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/6Sgx95s_zpslrmyfgt6.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/6Sgx95s_zpslrmyfgt6.jpg.html)
You can see it open just behind the calf of the armourer in this photo. So its on a hinge and looks to have quick release screws so this would not be a place for shells to fall out while in flight.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/a907012144b6c479e877fbec4d8aeabd_zpsctwva2ci.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/a907012144b6c479e877fbec4d8aeabd_zpsctwva2ci.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/0188077e-f826-428e-8b6c-dd02feca166b_zpsteskku1o.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/0188077e-f826-428e-8b6c-dd02feca166b_zpsteskku1o.jpg.html)
In this video at the 42.02 minute mark there is a static firing P-38 the door is closed and no other shells falling other than 50 cal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRhIHPoB430
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Trying to figure out how to post a photo using the "IMAGE" "IMAGE"
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I will say this: I agree with Guppy. Probably a mind-game like broom handles on Doolittle raiders.
Even though it looks like you could physically fit them, the ammo, the feed chutes, etc, all take up room. Then there's the cameras... Cameras are sensitive and probably they were the most expensive thing on that airframe. They also were fragile. It's one thing to fly them around in the nose of an aircraft subject to the turbulences and bumps of takeoffs/sorties/landings, but to then literally bolt jackhammer-vibrating-50cals to the same frame holding the camera? You'd do some serious damage to that equipment.
There's no real way they'd have worked.
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Trying to figure out how to post a photo using the "IMAGE" "IMAGE"
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=386558.0;attach=27743)
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I will say this: I agree with Guppy. Probably a mind-game like broom handles on Doolittle raiders.
Even though it looks like you could physically fit them, the ammo, the feed chutes, etc, all take up room. Then there's the cameras... Cameras are sensitive and probably they were the most expensive thing on that airframe. They also were fragile. It's one thing to fly them around in the nose of an aircraft subject to the turbulences and bumps of takeoffs/sorties/landings, but to then literally bolt jackhammer-vibrating-50cals to the same frame holding the camera? You'd do some serious damage to that equipment.
There's no real way they'd have worked.
They only have to work once. To heck with the cameras, save the plane.
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There's no real way they'd have worked.
If fake why go to the trouble to put corks and or caps over the holes of the guns when the aircraft is stationary?
That is an act of preservation for a piece of equipment that is functional.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/0012783a-746a-435c-af7b-fe4c4809ee0c_zpsbgio8jpz.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/0012783a-746a-435c-af7b-fe4c4809ee0c_zpsbgio8jpz.jpg.html)
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Not necessarily. Could have been on at all times, even during flight. Look at the size of the cameras and look at the size of the ammo drums for the guns. They take up the entire nose, both of them. They both can't be there. The only thing I can think of, logically, is they bolted in the empty M2 50cal on each side but without any ammo, but honestly you could fake the whole thing with a lot less weight. The barrels and cooling sleeves were removable and replacable. Far easier to just bolt a used barrel onto a post and save 20lbs for the pair of empty guns.
Take for example the various setups that the F-5s and F-4s had, each plane of glass woudl have a camera mount on it. We see at least two downward panes of glass in "Jo" so we know it has at least tow vertical cameras, as you see in the previously posted pictures. That puts it, what, towards the early end of the photo recon configuration? Later models had up to 6 or 7 in the nose shooting at angles sideways and downwards. Still, even with 2 that would preclude any room for the standard 50cal drum feed below the M2 mount, and possibly the M2 itself depending on the size of the camera (again, see the photo already posted, some cameras were larger).
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I think that they are fake compare the two photos shell ejection chutes open and chutes covered.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/6Sgx95s_zpslrmyfgt6.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/WSB-9thPRS-17_zpsqwtqclbx.jpg)
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The two-camera-only installation may have had room for the two .50s.
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I think that they are fake compare the two photos shell ejection chutes open and chutes covered.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/6Sgx95s_zpslrmyfgt6.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/WSB-9thPRS-17_zpsqwtqclbx.jpg)
We are not talking about a normal layout gun armed P-38 here. If it was done it was done in the field by mechanics on site. With the cannon gone there is a chamber that stored all the shells they did not eject 20mm shells out of the aircraft on any P-38. That compartment could have easily stored 50 cals instead if armed.
This again would have been done in the field.
If armed it would not have the huge gun trays like the normal P-38 they would also be done in the field.
Going back to this photo that I found and had no forum with it or any comments real or not real?
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/1526812_600569509998418_1692931138_n_zps0u4bnbup.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/1526812_600569509998418_1692931138_n_zps0u4bnbup.jpg.html)
Not having any point of reference who knows?
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Not necessarily. Could have been on at all times, even during flight. Look at the size of the cameras and look at the size of the ammo drums for the guns. They take up the entire nose, both of them. They both can't be there. The only thing I can think of, logically, is they bolted in the empty M2 50cal on each side but without any ammo, but honestly you could fake the whole thing with a lot less weight. The barrels and cooling sleeves were removable and replacable. Far easier to just bolt a used barrel onto a post and save 20lbs for the pair of empty guns.
Take for example the various setups that the F-5s and F-4s had, each plane of glass woudl have a camera mount on it. We see at least two downward panes of glass in "Jo" so we know it has at least tow vertical cameras, as you see in the previously posted pictures. That puts it, what, towards the early end of the photo recon configuration? Later models had up to 6 or 7 in the nose shooting at angles sideways and downwards. Still, even with 2 that would preclude any room for the standard 50cal drum feed below the M2 mount, and possibly the M2 itself depending on the size of the camera (again, see the photo already posted, some cameras were larger).
Your argument falls apart on the plugs being on all the time, you clearly have not looked at the other photos of this aircraft.
Light coloured plugs/corks.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/0012783a-746a-435c-af7b-fe4c4809ee0c_zpsbgio8jpz.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/0012783a-746a-435c-af7b-fe4c4809ee0c_zpsbgio8jpz.jpg.html)
Nothing covering them.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/cd67e39d-aa81-4bdf-bc11-4f70017588e6_zpsdbzgy9el.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/cd67e39d-aa81-4bdf-bc11-4f70017588e6_zpsdbzgy9el.jpg.html)
Looks to be nothing in this one.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/32019581-316f-4a05-a04f-e2d57f9d0136_zpsio0z3umi.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/32019581-316f-4a05-a04f-e2d57f9d0136_zpsio0z3umi.jpg.html)
In this one looks to have dark sleeves covering the end of the barrels.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/57e53412-6061-4651-b045-d15ef8150aa9_zpszg1tqqlv.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/57e53412-6061-4651-b045-d15ef8150aa9_zpszg1tqqlv.jpg.html)
Guessing what is fake and real is anybody's guess? Few people commented with their opinions on the site that Guppy posted but none of them know either.
Nor do we at this point.
We have to get someone from this unit or find more documentation either way to know.
It is interesting though that so many photos of this aircraft exist :headscratch: granted it is a photo recon unit so cameras and film would be plenty abundant.
Yet for some reason everyone kept taking photos of this Foto-Jo more than any other aircraft in this unit.
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Your argument falls apart on the plugs being on all the time, you clearly have not looked at the other photos of this aircraft.
Light coloured plugs/corks.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/0012783a-746a-435c-af7b-fe4c4809ee0c_zpsbgio8jpz.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/0012783a-746a-435c-af7b-fe4c4809ee0c_zpsbgio8jpz.jpg.html)
Nothing covering them.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/cd67e39d-aa81-4bdf-bc11-4f70017588e6_zpsdbzgy9el.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/cd67e39d-aa81-4bdf-bc11-4f70017588e6_zpsdbzgy9el.jpg.html)
Looks to be nothing in this one.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/32019581-316f-4a05-a04f-e2d57f9d0136_zpsio0z3umi.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/32019581-316f-4a05-a04f-e2d57f9d0136_zpsio0z3umi.jpg.html)
In this one looks to have dark sleeves covering the end of the barrels.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/57e53412-6061-4651-b045-d15ef8150aa9_zpszg1tqqlv.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/57e53412-6061-4651-b045-d15ef8150aa9_zpszg1tqqlv.jpg.html)
Guessing what is fake and real is anybody's guess? Few people commented with their opinions on the site that Guppy posted but none of them know either.
Nor do we at this point.
We have to get someone from this unit or find more documentation either way to know.
It is interesting though that so many photos of this aircraft exist :headscratch: granted it is a photo recon unit so cameras and film would be plenty abundant.
Yet for some reason everyone kept taking photos of this Foto-Jo more than any other aircraft in this unit.
I think you may have stumbled onto to the answer. If this plane was in fact modified to have a pair of working guns, it would definitely warrant the attention it received over the rest of the unit's planes.
But then it does beg the question as to why no photos of the internals were ever seen.
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Well true, I was going by the covers over the ejection chutes.
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Well true, I was going by the covers over the ejection chutes.
So was I but in regards to where was the 5th one for the cannon shells.
Nice job on the colourized versions as well. :rock
Meanwhile another profile I found no red or yellow for that matter is on the actual pictures IMHO.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20fj_zpscrmp8ict.png) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20fj_zpscrmp8ict.png.html)
Even the Russians got on board with this one.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20a45_zpsm3xdthon.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20a45_zpsm3xdthon.jpg.html)
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This image shows the P-38 gun bay minus the 20mm cannon. Quite a bit more space when you get all that hardware out of the way.
Also I believe that slot in the middle is the 20mm cannon ejection chute were the shells are stored in a chamber. It looks like that is where the cannon belt feed magazine is attached above that chamber.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/11-78e14e25ee%20a_zpsyab5e6vk.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/11-78e14e25ee%20a_zpsyab5e6vk.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/9833e90c-7be2-4496-82f9-2b751f0834d1_zps7olwafuo.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/9833e90c-7be2-4496-82f9-2b751f0834d1_zps7olwafuo.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/63-bd7fc82891_zpsxgaudiwv.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/63-bd7fc82891_zpsxgaudiwv.jpg.html)
20mm Magazine being loaded.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/www.pinterest.com_zpsdixf1odf.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/www.pinterest.com_zpsdixf1odf.jpg.html)
Drawing of lay out of 20mm cannon.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/P-38-gunbayII_zpswwlgtwcm.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/P-38-gunbayII_zpswwlgtwcm.jpg.html)
Good image of the magazine as well as the top of the shell catching chamber.
It also aligns with the 20mm shell ejection door.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/www.pinterest.com%20xcv_zpsorjqfial.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/www.pinterest.com%20xcv_zpsorjqfial.jpg.html)
Door better seen in these two WWII historically correct period photos.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20CHUTE_zps3zoowspq.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20CHUTE_zps3zoowspq.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20NM_zpsknknnrve.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20NM_zpsknknnrve.jpg.html)
Another image of a different armed droop snoot.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20droop_zpsq4zrpqyx.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20droop_zpsq4zrpqyx.jpg.html)
I wonder if these armed droop snoots were common? After all they were not done at the factory :headscratch: If only there was some information confirming this.
OH MY. :devil
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20ds_zpscgpntfkp.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20ds_zpscgpntfkp.jpg.html)
Goodness this book preview confirmed they did do this for the benefit of the crew. Now we have a guy laying down in the nose with two machine guns as well as ammo trays had to be tight but they clearly fitted them all in.
If only there was a reference about armed Foto recon aircraft.
Sadly no complete access to those pages but they do give a brief glimpse.
TAH-DAH.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20vbn_zpsbqcomlm5.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20vbn_zpsbqcomlm5.jpg.html)
Book is on the way.
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Now we know how the used 20mm cannons shells were dealt with.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%2016_zpslrhtbdcr.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%2016_zpslrhtbdcr.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20232_zpsbpa29hlb.png) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20232_zpsbpa29hlb.png.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20233_zpsa0tsdegl.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20233_zpsa0tsdegl.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20231_zpsqhuxux3r.png) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20231_zpsqhuxux3r.png.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20fjj_zpstdvleays.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20fjj_zpstdvleays.jpg.html)
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(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/img067_zpsihqnar6v.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/img067_zpsihqnar6v.jpg.html)
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Drop the mic.
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The question then is will HTC allow the skinning of a one off or very limited field modified airplane?
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They only have to work once. To heck with the cameras, save the plane.
The recce 38s were by far the fastest 38s and part of that was due to the removal of the extra weight of armor plate and guns. The recce pilots were trained to run away not engage.
Anyone see a gun sight in the cockpit photos of FOTO JO? :)
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The recce 38s were by far the fastest 38s and part of that was due to the removal of the extra weight of armor plate and guns. The recce pilots were trained to run away not engage.
Anyone see a gun sight in the cockpit photos of FOTO JO? :)
I cant tell if there is or isn't one.
Few more images.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/WSB007_zpse4zgstoo.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/WSB007_zpse4zgstoo.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/WSB008_zpsw207hu8m.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/WSB008_zpsw207hu8m.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/WSB006_zpso785dif6.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/WSB006_zpso785dif6.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/WSB-9thPRS-17_zpsqwtqclbx.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/WSB-9thPRS-17_zpsqwtqclbx.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/EM018_zpshqj3qv6g.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/EM018_zpshqj3qv6g.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/KD102_zpsd5sqciof.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/KD102_zpsd5sqciof.jpg.html)
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Anyone see a gun sight in the cockpit photos of FOTO JO? :)
Not sure either?
New image I found I cant tell.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/9eacd9b5-ff42-4d42-91b0-d7f2aa8893c1_zpshx3tuoor.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/9eacd9b5-ff42-4d42-91b0-d7f2aa8893c1_zpshx3tuoor.jpg.html)
Would not be the first in WWII to try shooting things down without one though.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/ar234b1-2.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/ar234b1-2.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/ar234b-2.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/ar234b-2.jpg.html)
Another view of that droop snoot.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/12733646_10206309561433287_9032055727646731863_n_zpsxfn8wlwe.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/12733646_10206309561433287_9032055727646731863_n_zpsxfn8wlwe.jpg.html)
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I cant tell if there is or isn't one.
I think this confirms it?
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Untitled_zpshnlkrzdr.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Untitled_zpshnlkrzdr.jpg.html)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/P-38-LIGHTNING-WW2-FIGHTER-GUNSIGHT-MOUNTING-BRACKET-/110429361254
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The question then is will HTC allow the skinning of a one off or very limited field modified airplane?
Should the only requirement was no unarmed photo recon aircraft.
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Gun sight? Yes. IMO. At a glance.
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Should the only requirement was no unarmed photo recon aircraft.
Again, understand I'm a 38 junkie. I'm not anti 38. What you seem to point out in the one image is the armor glass not the gun sight. At least thats all i can see. As for field modifications, I seem to recall that HTC wasn't going to do that. I remember there was a fuss about the depot modded B25C gunships when they were coming out for that reason. Some argued against the Malcom hood for that reason.
None of those were one off modifications so I think that's why they were OK. We're really talking about one or two possible recce Lightnings that we believe may or may not have had 2 50s. How do you work that in game? Shut off 2 Mgs and the cannon?
I don't care either way if HTC is OK with it. It's not up to me. If we allow recce paint jobs I'm much prefer the haze paint or PRU blue 38s since that's at least something different. This particular paint scheme is not unique enough to make me want to fly it and I fly the 38G almost exclusively.
So it seems to come down to whether or not 1-this is actually a working gunned 38 and 2-will HTC allow a field modded recce 38 skin in game?
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We're really talking about one or two possible recce Lightnings that we believe may or may not have had 2 50s. How do you work that in game? Shut off 2 Mgs and the cannon?
I don't care either way if HTC is OK with it. It's not up to me. If we allow recce paint jobs I'm much prefer the haze paint or PRU blue 38s since that's at least something different. This particular paint scheme is not unique enough to make me want to fly it and I fly the 38G almost exclusively.
So it seems to come down to whether or not 1-this is actually a working gunned 38 and 2-will HTC allow a field modded recce 38 skin in game?
Well we do have a couple of precedents that come to mind.
Two B-29's that are in game.
ENOLA GAY & BOCKSCAR.
There would be a few others that come to mind as well.
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We're really talking about one or two possible recce Lightnings that we believe may or may not have had 2 50s.
They did the link you provided actually talks about it.
http://www.9th.photorecon.org/html/DuncansHotRod.html.html
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20xxx_zpshcwkkqv9.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20xxx_zpshcwkkqv9.jpg.html)
Also this aircraft was lost in action.
http://www.9th.photorecon.org/html/AircraftSerialNumbers.html
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20mia_zps9i3jt4u0.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20mia_zps9i3jt4u0.jpg.html)
I was playing about with one of the known photos of Foto Jo & I found what looks like a gun sight in the dead center just in front of the armour plate glass.
Its not very clear but I don't know what else would be in this position on a P-38.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/WSB007_zpse4zgstoo.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/WSB007_zpse4zgstoo.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/4a86d47e-4d54-4fd7-bbcb-42f5f5c2ab05_zpsvcfj6srm.jpgoriginal_zpshixhbnwh.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/4a86d47e-4d54-4fd7-bbcb-42f5f5c2ab05_zpsvcfj6srm.jpgoriginal_zpshixhbnwh.jpg.html)
The style of gun sight I listed before would be wrong as it was attached to the glass itself with three screws. Those aircraft that had this had the flat glass. Foto Jo has a curved sheet up front therefor no three screw attachment.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20cvf_zpsqs0sik2j.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/Untitled%20cvf_zpsqs0sik2j.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/BYikLDwmkKGrHgoOKkQEjlLmWTSVBKiGwu7Cd_12_zpsa2xsys3z.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/BYikLDwmkKGrHgoOKkQEjlLmWTSVBKiGwu7Cd_12_zpsa2xsys3z.jpg.html)
I am guessing it was mounted on a bar like this drawing.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/38Gunsight_zpss0kkm5qc.gif) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/38Gunsight_zpss0kkm5qc.gif.html)
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Also I believe that slot in the middle is the 20mm cannon ejection chute were the shells are stored in a chamber. It looks like that is where the cannon belt feed magazine is attached above that chamber.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/11-78e14e25ee%20a_zpsyab5e6vk.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/11-78e14e25ee%20a_zpsyab5e6vk.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/9833e90c-7be2-4496-82f9-2b751f0834d1_zps7olwafuo.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/9833e90c-7be2-4496-82f9-2b751f0834d1_zps7olwafuo.jpg.html)
Another drawing showing the 20mm chute assembly.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/10643324_10204086588719314_236726418_n_zps3aoadipo.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/10643324_10204086588719314_236726418_n_zps3aoadipo.jpg.html)
Looks to be a 20mm ejection chute door.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/18485898_10209077213069382_8748563232593069108_n_zpsi14usjff.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/18485898_10209077213069382_8748563232593069108_n_zpsi14usjff.jpg.html)
Best views I can find of the chamber that stored the shells.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/15800542_10212041970990457_8354837980026127540_o_zpspaua5qmv.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/15800542_10212041970990457_8354837980026127540_o_zpspaua5qmv.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/15776886_10212032177985638_3562267531444745414_o_zpsnzpv4tjj.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/15776886_10212032177985638_3562267531444745414_o_zpsnzpv4tjj.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/15844536_10212032182305746_8516543511981232183_o_zpszyypch5a.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/15844536_10212032182305746_8516543511981232183_o_zpszyypch5a.jpg.html)
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As I said. It all comes down to if HTC will allow it.
I'd also ask if folks think the color scheme itself is unique enough to make it something folks would fly?
Seems to me that trying to convince them to let an all black P-38M be skinned on the L would be a better bet as at least you'd have a skin that really stood out :)
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Seems to me that trying to convince them to let an all black P-38M be skinned on the L would be a better bet as at least you'd have a skin that really stood out :)
I have done the black P-38 in the past.
6th NFS that became the the 418th NFS.
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I was playing about with one of the known photos of Foto Jo & I found what looks like a gun sight in the dead center just in front of the armour plate glass.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/WSB007_zpse4zgstoo.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/WSB007_zpse4zgstoo.jpg.html)
I believe I have found the style of gun sight used here.
It is this type.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/10860369_10204599046770445_928330635_o_zpstgnlkzv0.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/10860369_10204599046770445_928330635_o_zpstgnlkzv0.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/canvas_zpsoryipmet.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/canvas_zpsoryipmet.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/10860369_10204599046770445_928330635_zpsczybvezd.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/10860369_10204599046770445_928330635_zpsczybvezd.jpg.html)
Other photos with similar arrangement.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/P-38-gunsights-30_zpsaliwtxzz.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/P-38-gunsights-30_zpsaliwtxzz.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/P-38-gunsights-12_zpsspi0kci9.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/P-38-gunsights-12_zpsspi0kci9.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/P-38-gunsights-27_zpsccmksagm.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/P-38-gunsights-27_zpsccmksagm.jpg.html)
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I have done the black P-38 in the past.
6th NFS that became the the 418th NFS.
They had two black ones only have complete photos of the first profile.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/img068_zpsstlxkyau.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/img068_zpsstlxkyau.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/9595ce9fe9.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/9595ce9fe9.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P38%20Lightning/418th_zps6bf98529.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P38%20Lightning/418th_zps6bf98529.jpg.html)
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Screw you Photobucket not paying $400.00 a year.
(http://i65.tinypic.com/2vmavqe.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/1tadti.jpg)
(http://i65.tinypic.com/a0z980.jpg)
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2akn58n.jpg)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/157y7hg.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/zuqkaa.jpg)
(http://i65.tinypic.com/vshlzd.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/34orme0.jpg)
(http://i67.tinypic.com/30vlvl3.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/rba34o.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/23vih.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/9a4psp.jpg)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/6ztvz8.jpg)
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2u91llg.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/otd745.jpg)
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2jg78te.jpg)
(http://i66.tinypic.com/27wwoqe.jpg)
(http://i66.tinypic.com/juxuo2.jpg)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/dgsas.jpg)
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As I said. It all comes down to if HTC will allow it.
I'd also ask if folks think the color scheme itself is unique enough to make it something folks would fly?
Seems to me that trying to convince them to let an all black P-38M be skinned on the L would be a better bet as at least you'd have a skin that really stood out :)
Since you asked: No to this skin. No to the black P-38. I was glad when we got that pulled from the game. Let's not take a step backward.
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Since you asked: No to this skin. No to the black P-38. I was glad when we got that pulled from the game. Let's not take a step backward.
Already happened B-29s that had only 1 defensive gun position and the Atom bomb in real life. In. T-34/85s with German markings. In. Il-2 variants that are skinned that are not the version we have in game now. In. B-24s & B-17s that never dropped bombs. In. Bomber squadron formation skin. In. DC-3'S that are not C-47's. In. Most P-47-40s in game are not P-47-40's. In.
The only requirement for Recon aircraft was that had to be armed.
This aircraft meets the criteria more than any of the skins I mentioned above. Plus this aircraft did start out being a regular P-38 that was fully armed & was stripped then rearmed again.
Krusty the horse has bolted.
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Already happened B-29s that had only 1 defensive gun position and the Atom bomb in real life. In. T-34/85s with German markings. In. Il-2 variants that are skinned that are not the version we have in game now. In. B-24s & B-17s that never dropped bombs. In. Bomber squadron formation skin. In. DC-3'S that are not C-47's. In. Most P-47-40s in game are not P-47-40's. In.
The only requirement for Recon aircraft was that had to be armed.
This aircraft meets the criteria more than any of the skins I mentioned above. Plus this aircraft did start out being a regular P-38 that was fully armed & was stripped then rearmed again.
Krusty the horse has bolted.
+1
I was going to make a similar post earlier regarding other examples. For instance there's a skin on the 109G6 that was on a different model of the 109G6, the A/S. We have skins on the 51B poney that were really on C models and so forth. Inerestingly, the dive flaps on P47Ds were initially (may have always been but not positive) post factory production field modifications and the little I've read on them suggests the same thing for the 38Ls. The Ki-84s hardly used the best fuel for them and were mostly rendered inferior to the Ki-61 due to Japans loss of access to the better quality fuel production it required to perform loke it does in AH. Same with the 109K-4 and limits on its fuel.
There is some room for accommodations that doesn't completely overstep parameters.
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See Rule #4
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He asked for opinions. I gave mine. Just because we have bad examples doesn't mean you should encourage more. Two wrongs don't make a right. We should strive to be better, not use a convenient excuse that doesn't hold water or stand up to scrutiny. That's why I say let's not go backward. Only forward.
In regards to skins already in-game: Sub variants of 109s are a small matter and open to argument. If you know a lot about the nuances of difference versions, there are some skins that could go on 2 different in-game models and a decision has to be made. Same with P-47-D40s. Gotta put them on something, and that's the best fit. No captured markings should be in the game, period.
The problem skins are the nuke toting B-29s, IMO, and the TAIC skins on zeros, the training (non-combat) schemes and squadron hacks. They shouldn't be in the game IMO. I also agree that formation bombers (I'm looking at you B-24s) shouldn't be allowed at all. Nor should the milk running midnight pamphlet dropping B-17.
However, please check the facts before complaining about some variants. There was absolutely no difference between P-51Bs and P-51Cs. 100% identical just different designations for different factory runs. A lot of the "these skins don't belong on this plane" comments get lost because sometimes there's a valid justification for it. Then when there isn't a valid justification it slips through the system (or somebody misrepresents it to get it past the system because they just want their skin in-game). Learning more always helps with understanding a skin and the references related to it.
Once you get the facts right in the first place, you don't need me, Ace. So keep the insults to a minimum if you can. Thanks.
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+1
I was going to make a similar post earlier regarding other examples. For instance there's a skin on the 109G6 that was on a different model of the 109G6, the A/S. We have skins on the 51B poney that were really on C models and so forth. Inerestingly, the dive flaps on P47Ds were initially (may have always been but not positive) post factory production field modifications and the little I've read on them suggests the same thing for the 38Ls. The Ki-84s hardly used the best fuel for them and were mostly rendered inferior to the Ki-61 due to Japans loss of access to the better quality fuel production it required to perform loke it does in AH. Same with the 109K-4 and limits on its fuel.
There is some room for accommodations that doesn't completely overstep parameters.
Dive flaps were factory produced kits added to some of the later J models in the field. It wasn't a field modification however. P-38J-25 and the L models had the dive flaps as standard. I wouldn't consider that a field mod such as what this one off bird is. Still comes down to what HTC wants to do in the end.
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Contacted the 9th Photo Reconnaissance Squadron Association on Facebook some time back.
I just got a reply as to why they armed Foto-Jo.
"As for Foto Jo, the story has it that a lone Japanese fighter strafed the base (blank at the moment on which particular one) a number of times within a week or so. The ground crew mounted two 50 cals and waited for his return.
He did return and Foto Jo got air born but never encountered the fighter."
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Contacted the 9th Photo Reconnaissance Squadron Association on Facebook some time back.
I just got a reply as to why they armed Foto-Jo.
"As for Foto Jo, the story has it that a lone Japanese fighter strafed the base (blank at the moment on which particular one) a number of times within a week or so. The ground crew mounted two 50 cals and waited for his return.
He did return and Foto Jo got air born but never encountered the fighter."
Cool that they replied. Thanks for sharing that Lyric :)
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Did we ever get a ruling from HTC on this?