Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Special Events General => Topic started by: ramzey on June 11, 2003, 07:50:24 AM
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every year?
regards
ramzey
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Only if we can have MIDWAY Every year :)
Jordi
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i agree, september BoB, november Midway
we deal?
ramzey
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We will have a BoB scenario every year......every time the CAP campaign rolls back to 1940.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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scenario not CAP;)
something old fasion style
ramzey
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It's certainly possible, Ramzey; but of course there's questions:
A simple re-run of last years event or a redesign?
Same terrain or a new one?
etc etc.
Personaly; I'm in strongly in favour not only of a rerun, but also of re-using last years design; which was one of the best I've ever seen. However, that design sinks or swims on the quality of the RAF controllers, and believe me, that's one hell of a stressfull task.
Any others for/against a rerun?
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frankly i not remeber rules, setups in details
I was only sectio/flight leader so not care about that.
Possibly Scenarion need som fixes and improvments as every need. And i think its not much to do.
But im on re-run
Terrain we current have is good, so i not see reason of change or build it again. Allways can be improved to match better in skins and look.
Possibly we can play this scenarion after AH2 relase, who know mby personal skins or marking....... and other AH2 improvements.
I can be wrong but ju87 wa snot used in this scenario. It was before drones and bf110?.
So here is a field to add som things.
Even if we just re-run i will be happy too.
BoB setup is allways most wanted and liked on CT
ramzey
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I'd love a rerun, with what changes can sensibly be made to improve things.
As a for instance, I'd like to see some Ju87s in the next one. I'd like even more to see some He111s or Do17s, if possible!
I'd VERY much like to see the Ju88 given a sensible amount of fuel to play with, because as things stood last year, the Ju88 overperformed in everything except range, and the lack of range badly affected the LW's options, whilst the overperformancedue to the weirdness of the loadout/settings combination meant the RAF had a harder time catching the LW bomber than they should have.
I'd like to see longer frames - even if only by half an hour.
And I'd even volunteer to go RAF as a controller if it'd help things along (and if the RAF CO is happy for me to do that job.) Always been meaning to try the RAF side of a BoB game one day, this year is as good a time as any to do so.
Some updates to the terrain would be nice - like adding a few of the major railway lines, just for their visual effect.
Oh aye - nearly forgot - I'd like to see Otto gunnery for the buffs, unless at least a third of the buff trios are carrying players as gunners as well. The current system for buff defensive gunnery is a serious flaw. (Suggestion; maintain current system plus inaccurate Otto for guns NOT under human direction)
Esme
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He111s, Do17s and Otto gunners are unfortunety not possible and probably won't be until some time after AH2 is released.
The rest is though :D.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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Ramzey,
Next thursday I'll be running a a little bit of BoB (http://events.simladder.com/snapshot.php?snapshot_id=68) in your time zone.
By all means bring your lot along and see how they do against the Finns.
As for this :frankly i not remeber rules, setups in details
I was only sectio/flight leader so not care about that.
all I can say is : Yeah, riiight :)
You not being aware of every posible interpretation of the rules is as likey as me actually landing as kill.
Unless it's you; of course
:D
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i cant promice we be there, but we can try;)
u know jobs/exams/families
and about rules i write true by 2 reasons
1. my english was not good enough to be pain in a*** /u see AH create montrum in 1 year;)/
2. AS not CO i not need to know in what we are in, now situation is changeed. I must take care about my squadies:) And know what situation we are in;)
ramzey
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Originally posted by ramzey
every year?
regards
ramzey
We currently have scenario projects in planning / loosely scheduled from now until May 2004...........
BoB is not one of them.............
We could run Bob in the August 2004 slot if popular demand requested it...........
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Tilt, new scenarions are great add-on
Its good thing for players who are here long time. As something new to play.
BoB is imho, most wanted and most knowed scenario ever.
Many new players never play them and its best scenario to convince SEA is great. I feel best spirit in 2 AH scenarios , BoB and Guadalcanal. Let new players touch this spirit.
And about planned scenarios. CM's know, players not know how looks future in this. My suspicion is Okinawa, what else?
ramzey
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Originally posted by ramzey
And about planned scenarios. CM's know, players not know how looks future in this. My suspicion is Okinawa, what else?
ramzey
I can advise the following under the understanding that stuff happens and "events" can cause changes to plans.
Currently under active planning
August Okinawa
November Kadesh (we are sponsoring artiks design of the Suez conflict)
February 2004 Rhur Valley
Currently in pre planning
Allocated May 2004 ( we are considering sponsoring a player designed eastern front scenario which has been submitted)
Possible August 2004(Battle of the Bulge)
However if a player wants to put together a scenario concept based around BoB or enough folk want us to re run BoB (2002 )with some changes [stuka, etc and others].I am sure we could consider that for August 2004 and Bulge would move to November2004.
Frankly our goal is to bring something new in every scenario whilst also imroving the product...........
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Future looks good:)
Kadesh? was any battle of Kadesh during ww2?
even we talk about post ww2 event we not have planset for this
and never will have. Using substitutes of planes are pitfull
ramzey
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We use what we have access to.
Just as in Guad - we had to substitute some planes for others. some sides come out ahead in the change - other sides may not.
In the LONG run it is how well the DESIGN Incorporates the subs ( Good skins can hide a lot of uglyness ! ) and how the PLAYERS get along with the substitutions.
In Guad even with the substitutions and not 100% accurate plane sets most pilots had fun and the precieved differences some may have had were not as BAD as was anticipated.
No Scenario is going to appeal to 100% of the scenario pilots - but it seems ALL Scenario appeal to a lot of pilots.
Mike Bowman
AH CM Scenario Staff
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Kadesh did not happen during WW2 but afterward. It basically was a conflict over the Suez Canal.
A new terrain is in progress for it that covers Egypt, Israel, eastern Med to some extent, etc.
We have also looked at other ideas such as the Soccer War in central america where P51s and F4Us face off versus each other in a conflict between Honduras and Guatemala in the 1960s. Back burner idea since we have to work on central america terrain (in progress but others ahead of it).
Also there was the Israeli Arab conflict that used Spits on Egypt/Arab side and 109s on the Israeli side.
As for substitution .. well even in the WW2 scenarios hate to say it but have to do since we don't have complete plane sets for all the parties involved. Russia is lacking many planes, Italy, Japan, then early war entries of france, Poland, etc., etc.
We have to make do with what we have in many cases. And basically seek what can be done to create an event that players will be interested with what we have .. making close substitutions when possible.
To let you know there is player interest in this so far since its a player designed event (not a CM one) where the player approached us with the idea, the write up, even a working terrain, and asked us to consider it to be run. So we are working in partnership with him on it.
If your not that is fine but if we had to get 100% of everyone interested in an event then we would never have any. You just don't play in the ones that you are not interested in. Personally, I was not interested in Niemen. Nothing wrong with it .. just did not hold an interest for me. The people who played in it thought it was good by all accounts.
There is significant interest in it, it was submitted to be run, and the player is working through the process of how to setup the event, etc., etc. with the CM staff.
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Originally posted by Tilt
Currently in pre planning
Allocated May 2004 ( we are considering sponsoring a player designed eastern front scenario which has been submitted)
Update Battle for Kurland (Courland) now in planning for May 2004 (Sponsored player design by Batz and Brady)
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I love the idea of running BoB, and would like to see another in the future, when time permits.
How about the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot?
15 CVs. Hundreds of Japanese planes. Radar cotrolled intercepts. I get goose bumps.
shubie
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Originally posted by rshubert
How about the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot?
I think we might have a problem recruiting IJN turkeys for that one:D
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Originally posted by Swoop
He111s, Do17s and Otto gunners are unfortunety not possible and probably won't be until some time after AH2 is released.
The rest is though :D.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
You wouldn't be cruel enough to lead me on with false promises, would you Swoop? :-)
Anyway - let's drink to the next BoB game! :-)
! Esme (sipping Scotch)
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I think the design of the last BoB was excellent. Us lw ran into some difficulty with the new bombsite which was just a few weeks old at the time.
With the new stuka (I know its a d3; but could fill in as a b2) we could start in phase 1 (July 10th - Aug 7th, Channel Convoy Raids).
It would be great to get a do 17 and he111. Atleast fix the ju88 fuel consumption bug.
As it stands right now it appears a new terrain editor or atleast an updated version will be coming at some point with ah2 and as reported in pyros simhq interview there will be new terrain features. Most of this sounds like it would be good for the ground war. I doudt much could change for a BoB terrain.
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so, lets forget Kadesh and play BoB
i still have in ears ground controler voice with english accent
/Seeker it was you? 12 group? SW of England/
i hope we can have he111 not this panzer ju88
ramzey
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The He 111 was reportedly "tougher" then the ju88. Especially to 303s.
Ramzey could you email me?
batz@fw-190.com
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But much slower, ju88 give time for one pass, and after that u must try to catch him from 6 clk. All the time flying in lazer beam;)
Do-17 would be nice too:)
/mail send/
ramzey
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Originally posted by Esme
You wouldn't be cruel enough to lead me on with false promises, would you Swoop? :-)
Anyway - let's drink to the next BoB game! :-)
! Esme (sipping Scotch)
Of course not! :D
Ju87s we now have, we also have control of fuel burn settings so Ju88 range can be controlled carefully, longer frames are of course doable, terrain updates are doable (the terrain team just needs time and a list of changes needed).
The only things we cant do is supply an He111, a Do17 and create otto gunners. We need HT to do that and he's working on AH2 so it's highly unlikely we'll get any new aircraft to play with until AH2 is out and stable. I assume otto gunners are coming with AH2 though since the TOD arena will have AI bombers.
Now on to more important subjects: What kinda scotch are you drinking?
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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Three quick things after reading this thread so far.
[list=1]
- Fuel burn rate affects all aircraft so adjusting it to control the range of the JU88 will affect all aircraft. Spits, Hurri and 109s will also be affecting. Fuel burn rate can not currently be seperately set for individual aircraft.
- Ramzey, please be little more respectful in your posts. I am talking about "so, lets forget Kadesh and play BoB."
It is absolutely fine that you are not interested in Kadesh. However, others have expressed interest in it which is why it has been put in the schedule. In addition to this, it is not a CM event but is a non-CM event proposed by a group of players who have created the terrain, are creating rules, etc. The CMs are setting up the terrain and offering advice for the event but its their baby.
As I said we know you are not interested in it. Simply don't fly in it. Your statements can be viewed as disrespectful by the player group working on this event. Especially considering you know very little about the event at this date, except the general setting, the time frame, and that it will involve jets.
Your statement can be read as to mean scrap Kadesh and do BoB instead.
- As for the interest in BoB interest in it has been noted. Its now in the CM teams lap. Right now they have 2 events they are running 1) Okinawa 2) The Ruhr and then we have two non CM designed and run events 3) Kadesh and 4) Kurland and we have 5th being discussed at the moment. So if BoB is to run it either needs a player group to come forward and ask to sponsor it (design it, etc., etc.) or it probably won't happen from the CM team until sometime in 2004.
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@Ghostdancer, im sorry i forget add smiles at end ";) "
no im not interested to play Kadesh. Dunno what postwar event doing in AH, but thats diferent story. As player i have right to complain about that. If i create moon terrain, and design 4 frames of event betwen empire and rebel can we play star wars?
With me163 as X- wing and262 as tie fighter?
I understand snapshot in this design and have nothing against to run this as snapshot. But i not see place for this design as full scenario for one month. Its not importand is designed by players or CM's. Cm's credit this, so its official HTC event
Wage pls whichone of events will have more players BoB or any other. BoB is a classic
ramzey
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Ramzey,
So you are saying its not important if its a CM designed event, where the CMs design it, create the rules, split up the players, do the arena setup, judge and score it or whether a player(s) designed event, where the player(s) design it, create the rules, split up the players, and just have the CMs do the arena setup, and then the player(s) judge and score it.
In your view this does not matter both are official HTC events which the CM team is responsible for.
Plus, your saying that the CM team should review any proposals (CM or player), review it and determine its appropriate or not for a multi-frame event.
This is what I believe you just stated in your previous message.
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Thank you ghostdancer for the replay,
The point of building Kadesh event is to go out from well known WWII going to unknown and very interesting zone.
It is ok for you ramzey not to be interested in 1956 event just like me not interested of fly Spit 1 (I really not like the flying such early planes).
With me163 as X- wing and262 as tie fighter?
That is not execlty right. In kadesh war at both sides (yes it really was) flew Gloster Meteor. As you know it is quite colose to 262 in this game in its perfomances. It is the same like to fly Ju88 instead of Do17 that was the main bomber in BOB.
I think making different events form different periods is quite interesting - making a less known events might interest a lot of players.
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Actually I kinda like the Star Wars idea.....although it'd have to be 262s as X-Wings and 163s as tie fighters.
:D :D :D :p :rolleyes:
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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I think the idea of a scenario outside of ww2 is a groundbreaking idea. Kadesh will be a groundbreaking scenario IMHO. I for one would much rather see events moving forward with new ideas than re-running the same thing over and over. I'm all for re-running BoB at somepoint but not at the expense of progress.
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Originally posted by Gremlin
I think the idea of a scenario outside of ww2 is a groundbreaking idea. Kadesh will be a groundbreaking scenario IMHO. I for one would much rather see events moving forward with new ideas than re-running the same thing over and over. I'm all for re-running BoB at somepoint but not at the expense of progress.
Its same ideas for "old" players, not for new one who come in to AH all the time. How many old layers left here? how many looking for something "new"? Old not mean bad. Many never even touch this scenario and im sure most of "old" players will enjoy "old" fasion scenario. As Guadalcanal was. Where is A2A combat only without all this new "improvements".
ramzey
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First off, Ramzey the original point of my post was about showing respect to people. You can agree to disagree about something and do it in a respectful way. I pointed out that your comments could be viewed disrectfully by Artik who has come up with the reasoning behind the event and is doing the work for the event. Which you glibly say should be cancelled.
Now as to your specific points:
[list=1]
- If i create moon terrain, and design 4 frames of event betwen empire and rebel can we play star wars?
With me163 as X- wing and262 as tie fighter?[/i]
You are trying to compare apples and oranges here in my opinion. The terrain created is an historical terrain. Not a fantasy terrain and can be used for other Eastern Mediterrean events. The moon can't.
You don't like plane substitutions but until HTC models all planes of WWII its a fact of life for events to have to substitute planes. This was the case with AW, and WB and has been a fact of life since the mid 1990s. It has also been pointed out BoB needs some plane substitution of replacing a plane with the closest equivalent within reason.
This event would substitute the 262 for the Gloster Meteror .. both of which saw action in WWII. And then use other WWII aircraft that was used in this "action."
Remember many nations used WWII aircraft after WWII in their conflicts with each other because they could not afford to field top of the line aircraft (Jets, etc.). You have an incident earlier than Kadesh where Egyptian Spitfires and Israeli 109s fought each other. You have Honduras and Guatemala fighting each other in P51s and F4Us, I am sure there are others. So Artik proposed an event that offered something different within a workable frame work of planes.
The Tie-Fighter and X-Wing can not be related to the Prop driven aircraft in anyway. While the 262 is a close comparison for the Meteor.
Some people will have a problem with the plane subsistution, others won't.
- It is fine that you see no place for this as a full design scenario for one full month. That is your opinion. Others are of the opinion that it does have value and does offer something different. Remember you speak for yourself and your opinion is just yours. Anything else is an opinion and generalization on what other players might or might not think on the subject.
- As for your right to complain as a player. What are you complaining about? How have you been wronged or something done against you?
You have a right to offer an opinion, which is listened to with respect and given as much weight as any other players opinion. Nobody is forcing you participate in the event. The event is not knocking another event out of the loop or delaying it.
Since the event has not even run yet their is not anything specific which has been done to you for you to complain about.
What your statement can be seen as is not offering your opinion but actually proposing an event be cancelled because you don't like the idea for it. This is what can be seen as not respectful. Artik and others have already put alot of work into the event after they convinced others to give it a shot. A glib comment saying cancel something they have already put work into and convinced others that it is worthwhile to try can be viewed as denigrating to them.
- Lastly as for which event pulls more numbers. This is not a hurdle for whether an event should be run or not. Will BoB of have more people sign up for it. Most probably yes. Does this mean it is more valid or more worthwhile no. To say yes, because BoB is better known is to say that most of the battles on the Eastern Front between the Germans and Russians are not as important as the ones fought between the British/Americans vs the Germans because the British/American Battles are better known to most players than most of their Eastern Front counterparts.
Also we don't insist on people lining up a certain amount of people who commit to play in the scenario before we flesh it out (design it) and put it into the schedule.
[/list]
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I'm sure everybody appreciates the work of artik and his crew in making the terrain, the skins, the design, ... So does ramzey.
It's great to see, that CM team is supporting them and giving them the time and place to run it as one of the few big scenarios in the year. It's a great honour and I hope many people will enjoy it. Good to see how you (CMs) fight for player runned events.
This event will cross the line and enter the post WW2 time and it's battles.
Personally, I don't see the need for it (there were mor than enough battles in WW2) and more than that I don't like it in general crossing that line. I'm sure, I can write that without hurting artik or disrespecting his work. He has my best wishes, that it will be a success.
Anyway, I should be able to ask: "I like BoB, can we have it again?" and argue to see it (re-)run without being slagged by a CM.
BOT, this thread is about the question of having a BoB scenario again, because, I bet most people agree, it is one of the best we ever had and it attracts most people. This is definetly something important as the prime directive for every event is "The players have fun!"
The only question is IMO, is there a demand for another BoB?
Anything else is offtopic and it's not the place for showing antipathy against people.
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Lucull the idea of running BoB was not slagged by CMs nor was Ramzey slagged or others slagged for the idea and advocating it. Actually there was a discussion of just doing a re-run of the event or should the rules be revised from the last one.
Ramzey asked what was in the works and Tilt responded by saying Okinawa, Kadesh, Rhur, and now Kurland. Ramzey stated he was not interested in Kadesh and that plane substitute were pitiful.
Only possible negative I see about BoB is Swoop saying that CAP was going to get around to doing it again. Which Ramzey pointed out correctly is not the same thing as a "scenario" version.
Also you had Seeker post a remark about Ramzey not remember rules and setup. Implying that Ramzey is a "rules lawyer" type of player followed by a happy face to try to indicate he was poking fun.
Where the discussion turned was on the possibility that instead of advocating a BoB be run again that instead it turned to scrap other events and replace them with BoB.
Up until that point the thread was "I like BoB, can we have it again?" and argue to see it (re-)run without being slagged by a CM. No CM slagged Ramzey or any other such as Esme in their discussion (except where possibly noted above). However, the last several postings did stem from the fact that Ramzey said "so, lets forget Kadesh and play BoB." Possibly being interpreting that he is saying/advocating scrapping Kadesh and run BoB instead. Instead of saying lets fine another time open slot to run BoB.
The following post were in response to that one line. I understand that you and he have no interest in Kadesh, need for it or for any similiar type of event that is not actually based in WW2 time frame. That is your opinion and fine. Whether it is the majority opinion of others players only time will tell by actual player turnout for the event.
Antipathy is not being shown toward anyone particular person but the appropriate concern over the possibility of one person advocating scrapping another event because they do not like an idea.
If the tables were turned and Artik had posted forget Ramzey's event and do BoB instead. Artik would have been the recipient of the post.
As for demand for BoB. Yes, there is demand. Now there are two options the CM runs it again and has to work it into its schedule .. which means 2004 or a player(s) put it together (working with some CM advisers) to have it run earlier (as long as an open slot can be found for it that does not unduly conflict with something else).
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BoB is great event and I think it worst to run it in AH. But the point I want to tell lets make something different from well known BoB. And do WWII events too. I think every opinion has right for being. I didn't tell Forget this WWII, I just making a project that might be very different from our events.
And lets make BoB too but without replacing one event with other. I'm shoure that me and ramzey can understand each other. Lets respect our opinions and all would be all right.
Best wishes for making BoB, Ramzey
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The thing is, we do need some variety.... imagine if we did run BoB every year.... maybe Midway every year and a couple of others. That wouldn't leave much time for anything new and we would be seeing posts from players complaining they are bored with the same scenarios year after year! :)
Artik has put a great deal of work into his scenario, including creating his own terrain and we have already agreed to include it in the scenario schedule. The fact that it is a post WW2 scenario doesn't matter in the least - if it is possible to run such a scenario, then why not? I remember one of my favourite scenarios in AW was Korea51 - I was apprehensive about it, but ended up enjoying it immensely, with the jets just adding to the fun (especially when I caused an F86 to auger when it attacked my B17 :D ).
To suggest scrapping an event that several people have already put a lot of work into is not only disrespectful but extremely inconsiderate.
I am sure we will run BoB again at some point in the future, but not at the expense of another scenario already well underway in the planning.
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CM's have two scenarios in the works:
[list=1]
- Okinawa (runs on saturdays)
- Rhur (runs on saturdays)
Player (non-CM Sponsored) scenarios in the works:
[list=1]
- Kadesh (runs on saturdays)
- Kurland (????)
So we can discuss with Tilt to run a BoB scenario but it would be slotted into the CM work table for after Okinawa and the Rhur. If its run on Saturdays that would put it after Okinawa, Rhurh, Kadesh.
It could run on sundays .. we can put Sunday Squad Ops on hold for 4 weeks. So that could allow it to run sooner but if its CM event then we have to wait till they finish Rhur and Okinawa. If a player group wants to put together with the CMs it possibly could be run sooner.
Will have to chat with Tilt and Flossy about things.
Plus, we do have another player scenario in the wings. So actually from now to May 2004 we are looking at 5 scenarios. Almost 1 every 2 months.
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Personally i support Kadesh scenario.
I had my doubts about non WW2 events in the past, but after reading the rules and knowing how much work it involves, i would love to give it a try.
And yeah, BoB would also be great, i got to fly 109e4s but damn brit air controllers kept us away from all spits! i saw no action!.
We won, but still, i want a rerun! :)
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To all CMs
Than You for Your support.
I hope my Kadesh evet will not dissapoint you.
looking forward
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Originally posted by Swoop
....(the terrain team just needs time and a list of changes needed).....
....
Now on to more important subjects: What kinda scotch are you drinking?
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
Want a list of suggestions (with locations) for terrain updates?
As for the Scotch, I confess to being Bells drinker. Yes, I now that this makes me a complete peasant, but I've simply not had chance to become a connesiuer (sp?) yet. Any reccomends? :-)
Esme
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D217
One of the most versatile and useful bomber designs the Germans put into production after the war started the Dornier Do 217 remedied the shortcomings of the Do 17 while greatly advancing the design in all areas. The first flight of the Dornier Do 217 came in August 1938 - although it crashed just a month later, killing both crewmen. Development continued and the plane entered service in 1940 eventually seeing service as a night fighter, torpedo, anti-shipping, and reconnaissance aircraft and guided missile carrier as well as level bomber.
Early in 1943 Do 217s were training and perfecting guided bomb and missile attacks against naval targets. The first operational
As a bomber the Dornier Do 17 was perhaps the least effective of the bomber types used in the Battle of Britain, excluding of course the Ju 87 Stuka. Although well liked by its crews and possesing good flying characteristics the plane was slow and carried a modest bombload. Also the Dornier Do 17 could not take as much battle damage as the He 111 or the Ju 88 bombers.
JU88
The RLM (German air ministry) issued a requirement for a Schnellbomber (fast bomber) in 1935. This led to the Junkers Ju 88, destined to be produced in greater numbers than all other German bombers combined. Total production reached 14,780 including 104 prototypes.
The Ju 88 V1 (prototype 1) first took to the air on 21 Dec 1936. More than half of the total production of Junker Ju 88s were A-series versions.
Originally designed for level and dive bombing the design proved capable of much more, eventually including long-range escort, night-fighting, intrudering, tank busting, anti-ship, anti-sub, supply dropping, towing, training, transport reconnaisance, torpedo plane, close support, pathfinding and pilotless missile attack.
he111 heavy bomber
Although up to 4,410lbs (2000kg) of bombs could be carried the unique arrangement for storage in the internal bomb bay limited the maximum bomb size to a 551 lb (250 kg) bomb, eight of which could be stored tail down, the individual bombs tumbling wildly upon release. Production exceeded 7300 and for lack of a suitable replacement the Heinkel He 111 made up the bulk of German "heavy" bomber forces for almost the entire war. The HE 111H-6 was the most produced version.
We have the 88 and the 87 if LW wanted any more bombers they would take the DO217 and HE111
seems like this bomber sucked so why would you want it
As a bomber the Dornier Do 17 was perhaps the least effective of the bomber types used in the Battle of Britain, excluding of course the Ju 87 Stuka. Although well liked by its crews and possesing good flying characteristics the plane was slow and carried a modest bombload. Also the Dornier Do 17 could not take as much battle damage as the He 111 or the Ju 88 bomber
German bombers (http://danshistory.com/ww2/germanb.shtml)
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heres a bomber we could really use. since all sides can use a bomber
B29
Four 2,200 hp Wright R-3350 radials
364 mph/25,000 ft
max bomb load 20,000 lb
Load out
4 X 4,000 lb
8 X 2,000 lb
12 X 1,600 lb
40 X 500 lb
4 remote control turrets w/ twin .50 in machine guns
2 X .50 in machine guns in tail
at 364 MPH we would see just a few fighters after this one two would have to be 163, 262 and not many others are fast enough to get to it. i think there arent that many
would make a lot better perk bomber than the 234
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And the B29 has what to do with the Battle of Britain??
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Originally posted by Esme
Want a list of suggestions (with locations) for terrain updates?
As for the Scotch, I confess to being Bells drinker. Yes, I now that this makes me a complete peasant, but I've simply not had chance to become a connesiuer (sp?) yet. Any reccomends? :-)
Esme
Bells? Jeezus. Even Red Label is an improvement on Bells. Avoid blended, it's only fit for putting in coffee. Any single malt you can find will give your taste buds a treat, the older the better. Personally I like Glenlivet, they do a very nice 15 year old single malt in duty free. Tell ya what, if ya make it to the UK con I'll bring ya a bottle.
Anyway, the terrain team are the ones for the lists. Um.....off hand though I dont know who designed the BoB terrain, I'm sure someone will chime in after this post though.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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Sarge... have you NO feeling for historicity? In thefriendliest possible way, I am apalled by yourattitude of wanting planes in only because you perceive them as "best" in some way. I want He111s and Do17Zs because they were in the Battleof Britain, and Iam utterly SICK of seeing BoB games run where the only level bomber present is the Ju88 (which were in fact only a tiny minority of those usedat the time).
TheDo17 wouldalso be useful in running, say, an invasion of Poland game. The He111 could be used for anything as far back as theSpanish Civil War (granted, theywere thestepped window typesat the time,but can;t have everything), and right up to thevery end of the war. Also, the Do17 was used by Kampfgeschwader 2 "Holzhammer", the virtual versionof which I am founder and still overall CO of. KG2 has been flying the much sneered at (by folks who don;t know their buffing) Ju88 in scenarios from early war through tolate war foryears now, and trust me, we could make good use of Do17s in a BoB game. It'd bea damnedsight easier than making good use ofJu88s in games set in 1943 in broad daylight and we've done THAT more than once in the past.
Anyway... He111s were producedi n greater numbers and used forlonger than B29s. Therefore, when looking at usefullness in a WW2 aircombat simulation, the He111 is needed far more than the B29. QED. Only arcade-games players need B29s more than He111s,(asidefrom anyone running a late-war Pacifics scenario, of course, They need B29s, but also need even more folk willing to fly Japanese fighters to try to intercept them. Now, given what it's like flying LW vs 8th AF in 1943-44, I can't see the CMs being knee deep in volunteers, eh? ) :-)
Esme
PS: don't try teaching Granny to suck eggs, m'dear. Icould quote dataon LWbombers and theirproduction, use, strengths and weaknesses until I bored you into the grave... :-)
Kommodore, Kampfgeschwader 2 "Holzhammer" in WB and AH.
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Never heard of Red Label.I have encountered Scotch that I didnt like - too harsh. Would these "fine" whiskys be smoother or sharper than Bells? :-)
As forthe BoB terrain, I haven t even been able to get hold of theterrin again, after my copy got corrupted. Several have pointed me atSundogs small "Bob-a-like" terrain, but that's not theone I want. I want the "flat Continent, realistic UK, full scale (near enough)"one - preferably theAlpha version- better clouds. :-)
When and where is this UK convention, then?
Esme
Originally posted by Swoop
Bells? Jeezus. Even Red Label is an improvement on Bells. Avoid blended, it's only fit for putting in coffee. Any single malt you can find will give your taste buds a treat, the older the better. Personally I like Glenlivet, they do a very nice 15 year old single malt in duty free. Tell ya what, if ya make it to the UK con I'll bring ya a bottle.
Anyway, the terrain team are the ones for the lists. Um.....off hand though I dont know who designed the BoB terrain, I'm sure someone will chime in after this post though.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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Originally posted by Esme
When and where is this UK convention, then?
Milton Keynes, 10-12 October - details here: http://www.ahcon.org.uk/con2003/index2.html Not sure if I will get to it this year, though, after splashing out on the US Con.... :)
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Thanks Flossy, although the link appears to be broken. Milton Keynes, eh? Hmmnn.. never been there from here. Wonder if its doable as a daytrip on the trains?
Esme
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Hmmm, I did have a dot at the end of the link, but even with that removed it doesn't appear to be working at the moment. It was definitely working last night, so maybe try a bit later today.
I imagine it would be doable as a train trip. :)
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You *could* do it as a day trip but since the con lasts a couple of days........
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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Originally posted by Esme
As forthe BoB terrain, I haven't even been able to get hold of theterrin again, after my copy got corrupted. Several have pointed me atSundogs small "Bob-a-like" terrain, but that's not theone I want. I want the "flat Continent, realistic UK, full scale (near enough)"one - preferably theAlpha version- better clouds. :-)Esme
Esme, I have the 1.0.0.0 "Wise" or whatever, verson dated 12/11/02 sitting on my hard drive, 1.62MB. It expands as "bigbob." Reads "BigBoB: Battle of Britain Scenario Terrain" across the bottom. I'd be glad to email it to you if you like.
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Originally posted by Flossy
Hmmm, I did have a dot at the end of the link, but even with that removed it doesn't appear to be working at the moment. It was definitely working last night, so maybe try a bit later today.
Works for me just now Flossy.
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Yep, working for me now too. :)
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Originally posted by Easyscor
Esme, I have the 1.0.0.0 "Wise" or whatever, verson dated 12/11/02 sitting on my hard drive, 1.62MB. It expands as "bigbob." Reads "BigBoB: Battle of Britain Scenario Terrain" across the bottom. I'd be glad to email it to you if you like.
Please do, Easyscor, many thanks! :-)
Esme
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Originally posted by Swoop
You *could* do it as a day trip but since the con lasts a couple of days........
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
...and I don;t have much spare cash, I couldnt afford a hotel. I'm REALLY hacked off that I missed the con when it was here in Brum. Was very ill with migraine... :-(
Esme
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Esme, sorry, should have said send me an email through my profile so you don't have to post you're addy and I'll send the file back.
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Originally posted by Esme
...and I don;t have much spare cash, I couldnt afford a hotel. I'm REALLY hacked off that I missed the con when it was here in Brum. Was very ill with migraine... :-(
We had the UK Con in the same Brum hotel three years running - you missed them all! :(
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Cons Ididn't hear about don;t count, Flossy!... :-}
Easycor, ah, sorry, this is where my lack of I'net knowledge in some regards shows up! Right-oh, will do the necessary now...
:-)
Btw, if you've any idea how one can get hold of the original files so that I could try playing with them usingthe TE, that'd be greatly appreciated, too.
Esme
(chuckling..) Easyscor, I can't send you an email that way - it's turned off in your profile! :-) Np, trying t'other way now..
... ah. That has been disabled by the administrator. :-}
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I guess we can arrange it out during the cap today. cya there :)
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This is the best way I can come up with to send the file to you. I must have your email wrong because even a single line of text bounces let alone this file. Click on the link below and download the zip file. Unzip it and put the terrain file in you AH/terrains folder. I’ve tested it to make sure all will go well but post here if you need any help.
http://www.geocities.com/wulf1177/ah_bigbob.zip
(edit) The wise version I had was the regular one so I zipped the terrain file. (/edit)
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As a for instance, I'd like to see some Ju87s in the next one. I'd like even more to see some He111s or Do17s, if possible!
i have fought for the poor old he111 for years ,,,heck spanish used it all the way into the late 1960's,,,was produced in huge numbers,,somthing like 18,000,,lol<~~not sure on that,,but i think its close,,lol,,the do217 very good plane too,,and from what i read about the he111 very tuff,,good bomb load,,and very importaint to historical senerios ,,every time i mentioned the he111 or the pby i get a ton of slack for it,,lol
pby,,great night raider,,the black cats,,,,,had good on board radar,,,good costal defender,,great long range,,was produced in high numbers and even produced by the russians,,canadians,,british,,few othere counties,,it was a work horse,,and killer ship bomber,,had tons of kills on subs and shipping,,{but it was slow},,but tuff,,,even see a report off alaska were they stopped a planned invasion with pbys,dive bombed a jap carrier,,lol,,wasnt made for dive bombing,,but i guess it didnt do too shabby,,even carried over 4,000lb of bombs
cant wait to try battle of britian,,i havent got to fly in that one yet:)
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Originally posted by ramzey
can we have BoB scenario
every year?
regards
ramzey
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We have four scenarios a year..... if we had a BoB every year that would only leave three slots for new ones - and how long before others want an "xyz" scenario every year..... before long it would be nothing but the same 4 scenarios year after year, which would soon get very boring. I am sure we will have BoB again some time in the future, but for now we already have others in the planning process. Meanwhile, keep a look out for BoB-type snapshots which are held frequently, and for the re-start of the CAP event happening fairly soon. :)
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Originally posted by ramzey
can we have BoB scenario
every year?
regards
ramzey
While not a full blown scenario, we did run a BoB snapshot just two weeks ago. We ran two very intense frames and had between 30 and 50 players.
Granted it was not a big scenario spread out over a month's time but nothing in the rules prohibit players and or squads from doing some advanced planning and recruiting for snapshots or any other event for that matter. This alone will often give the event more of a scenario or big event feel. The key imho is advanced voluntary player and squad coordination.
A registration page is not always a prerequsite for capturing that big event feeling. In most cases CM's can only do so much, the rest is up to the players as to how involved they want to be or how much planning they want to do.
Sorry you missed this one ramzey.
But I do share in your appreciation and enthusiasm for BoB.
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@ Flossy , 4 scenarions with less then half planed players registered (we can count thiis as 2 scenarions;) j/k)
Im long enough here to see diference between cap, snapshot and scenario. Snapshot have not even pice of scenario spirit.
More looks like last 2 scenarios when people was catched on MA and drag to SEA ;-)
BoB was running august-september , allmost like main battle in RL. SO its a lot of time to prepare it.
BoB is mother and father of all scenarios, it has spirit, teamplay ......... and everything. Its not just grab plane and fly.
Its whole mistery;)
@Skyfoxx, you right we need 2 strong commanders who will drive both sides.
So, now question is WHEN we can have BOB scenario?