Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Urchin on January 29, 2002, 11:21:11 PM
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I've tried it twice, it has been the same way both times. Log in, see one side is getting completly dominated (it was the Japs both times). Switch to the Japanese side. Oh, this is great. We get to pick two different fields to up from. One has all 25 of the U.S. team vulching it, with absolutely no attempt to knock out the hangers or take the field, and the other is two sectors away.
Eh.. no. Sorry. Cy'all in the MA. I suppose for some folks that sort of situation is fun, I'm just not one of them. I wish you all the best of luck with your private vulch arena. Maybe we'll get some new terrain in the MA sometime soon, so the vulchees can come back to something nice.
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I'm sorry to hear that, and it's not really limited to the allied side. I've been in several times when the "japs" had allies outnumbered 2 and 3 to one. We got our butts kicked in for a good hour and a half, and yes, we got vulched too. Tonight was a LOT better, equal numbers and around 25 on each side. It was a blast! To each their own, I know that the C/T might not always be great, or fair, but I'll continue going in because when it comes together it is definitely worth it imho. And I'll keep flying in main too... it's still the place to go for a quick fight and lots of action all over the map. Okay, my weak argument for the C/T is finished now, proceed in picking me apart, lol.
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The map will be fixed soon anyway. I like it a lot. I had to up an F4U-1 'cause I had no perks for a 38... got 7 kills in 1 sortie (3 were n1ks.. YUM YUM!! I love it now that its perked!)...
And sssooon the fork will... well, FORK EM. Bwhahahaha :D :D
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err.......gotta disagree with you this time Urchin. The #'s were pretty darn even, if not perfectly even. Just like in the MA, you have a choice to up from an obviously CAP'd field or somewhere else. From what you said, looks like you chose the field with the CAP in place.
Like I said on channel 1, I have seen it both ways, Allies with #'s, and Japs with #'s.......tonight it was really close, so I don't know what your complaint is.
For a while there tonight, it was like "Lazs World", with furrballs going on all over the place. Too bad he had to miss it....;)
Whether or not you give it another shot is up to you. I am getting what I have been craving, Axis planes vs Allies planes, and I don't give a hoot about strat.
to the CT staff! Best terrain and planeset yet IMO!:D
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Well Urchin you are obviously wrong in this case. If you and your little Axis buddies would not have killed our goonies over and over we would have taken the base and then rolled on to the next one.
So, please, in the future when we are trying to capture a base just move along and dont try to stop us or we will be forced to vulch..err....suppress you on the runway in an effort to keep you from interfering with us.
:rolleyes: You just cant win with some folks.
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The problem is some Allied kiddie gets in there at night and milkruns half the arena. Which leaves the other side with 2 fields during peak playing hours.
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Gee Sling, I'm so sorry. I was only there for a short time, perhaps 15 sorties(13 of which lasted 5 seconds), but I didn't see any LVT's, goons, nothing. Whats even more interesting is.... I didn't see any Allied fighters with BOMBS.. What are bombs you may ask? Well obviously since you and your little Allied buddies would rather vulch than fight, I suppose I'll have to tell you. A BOMB, moron, is an explosive device that attaches to a plane. When it is dropped from the plane, it can destroy things like HANGARS and such. This would also accomplish your 'goal' (except that isn't REALLY your goal, is it?) of 'suppressing' the airfield so you can capture it.
And no, I've had it with the Vulch Arena. I can get vulched in the Main if I really really wanted to, but I can also find a real fight if I am lucky. That doesn't seem to be the case in the Vulching Arena.
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Whoa......hold on a sec Urchin..........
I agree that maybe tonight was not the best time to log in if you wanted to up in a Zero, Tony, or Niki, but I would like to stress that it is NOT always like that. I took off from a CV one time, got 4 kills (only one of which was a vulch I might add, the rest had speed or alt on me when we engaged), the other sorties I did I took off from another base "2 sectors away" to fly the plane I wanted to.
I mean you no disrespect Urchin, I just think you logged in under very adverse circumstances. FWIW, had you stuck around a few minutes longer, the Japs took 35 and 32 within 5 minutes of one another. The whole time the furrball at 34 was happening, SCLeslie upped JU88's and softened 35 for his comrades. So it was possible to get up in a fighter and get in some action if you really wanted to.
I am thinking you might've logged in wanting to see something you didn't like, and you got it.
Would love to see ya give it a few more tries before you write it off, but that is up to you.
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Raubvogel does have a point. I've seen it, and I've hopped in a jap ride a few times to stop it. As far as vulching, my squad and I were too busy with other engagements to bother with that. Yes, if a low enemy got on my wingie's 6, I cleared him. That's not vulching, it's smart flying. And we would have made a few runs with BOMBS (oh my, could it be? And rockets too!), if it were not for the fact that we were nearly constantly surrounded as soon as we got up from the cv. Some people might not think those carriers are important, but we fly from them, therefore it's wise to protect them. Not to mention the fact that Ammo
and his crew were on us. Would you up heavy under those conditions? I thoroughly enjoyed the C/T tuesday night, and I hope we can have more like it!
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Urchin is right
This setup has really "main'd up" the ct.
Base grabbin where no nme are or off hour base grabs, ack huggin extreme, vulchin. Well hell its your arena do what you want in it.
It happens on both sides but that aint the point. Some have called for a mini main and they got it.
I was never with the folks who want no icons and no dar it really didn't matter to me as long as it was fun. I never saw any need to make it harder then people like.
But it was the other things like the stuff I mentioned above. I always stated that the ct will become what the guys flying in there make it. No matter what the settings or tweaks.
In the other setups this behavior was checked abit by the map and plansets. The planes didnt carry enough ord for 1 guy to level a town but oh well what ya gonna do. Ya damn sure cant make people do what ya want to have fun.
Urchin I gave up myself I'll try again on a land locked map.........
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EDITed, for fear of being banned by HTC.
NUTTZ
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Wotan, I hereby give you the bronze star of whining...for this week, geeez
Edit:
OK ok, maybe not soo much, I have to agree... boy do I overreact since they cut me off coffee :D
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Wotan doesnt need any defense here. But, after not being able to play for a week I entered the CT last night, was 11-3 with 3 CV groups sitting off the shore pounding 1 of the 2 bases left. You have to admit that anyone coming into the room for the first time is going to leave in a hurry seeing that.
That out of the way there were still some great fights and it was nice to see guys come in allied and "whoa!" and switch sides to start and even it out.
Myself, I will be back :)
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I was in there yesterday afternoon for about 2 hours..sides were about even. Porking the fuel at A35 slowed them down for a good hour (I think the rebuild time is doubled in there, might be wrong) Had a great time.
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I like the free beer.
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I see what Urchin is saying. I logged into AH lastnight and first checked out the CT. 14 online, 9 on one side, 5 on the other. My presence would have made it 2 to 1 odds our favor had I stayed.
Another thing I noticed was all in the arena were very experienced, excellent virtual pilots. The thought occurred to me that here is another reason why the CT is empty alot. I can see some who haven't gotten AH down yet or are new altogether in online flight sims, see these guys knowing they are hard core (based on comments on CT arena difficulty settings) and would probably get waxed anyway. The 2 to 1 odds just compound the problem.
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I have been in the CT many times and see folks take it upon themselves to even up the sides. This is the antithesis of behavior in the MA. Draw your own conclusions...
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Odd Urchin.. last night I logged on I saw several fields burning hard because the ju88s, tbms and b17s had been busy.
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Originally posted by Corwin
I have been in the CT many times and see folks take it upon themselves to even up the sides. This is the antithesis of behavior in the MA. Draw your own conclusions...
Yep, didn't really want to fly IJN aircraft yesterday afternoon, but did anyway to even the numbers up alittle.
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Heck, I switch sides all the time 'cause I don't like being outnumbered 2 or 3:1, and I ain't gonna do it to another guy.
If you log in and see the numbers leaning way in favor of one side or the other, why don't ya just log onto the underdogs and help out? I got way better in the 190 and 109 just because I changed to keep sides balanced, and got more stick time in those birds than I normally would.
Like I said earlier, the CT may not be for everyone, but don't go putting it down just because it ain't your cup of tea. I've gotten to where I prefer it to the MA, pretty much because of the matchups (Axis vs Allies, not so-called uber vs average planes).
Yup, JimBear, I was there when the Allies had 4 fleets roaming offshore near A34, and I switched sides to help out, especially when ALL the guys flying Japanese bugged out and left the arena. The solution to that one is one I mentioned earlier: Hopefully someday HT will add two more shore batteries to the fields, with 2 of them AI controlled. Heckuva lot more dangerous for fleet commanders to park offshore, and I think that alone would pretty much shut down the "park the fleet and vulch" stuff. Japanese did the same to A47 earlier in the week, so it happens from players on both sides, not just Allies.
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unfortunately, it does come down to the "off-hours" milkrunning.
I logged on to check if UDP was working early one morning this week before leaving for work. 2 people were on, both allied and there was an allied base on the main Jap island and no bar dars anywhere. Safe to assume that they were under 500ft milkrunning bases? I think so.
I'm sure sometime, it'll be the japs that do the milkrunning in the off hours times. Maybe rebuild times need to be shortened. Town building and ack rebuild times should be shorter than hangar times (if this is possible, I haven't explored this aspect of the arena tables yet.) If town buildings and ack pop up faster, one person is going to be able to milkrun the map, you'll need at least two people, one to knock out the town, and one to bring the troops at the same time. Dunno if that would even help though...
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I gotta agree with both Urchin and Woton here. This setup up blows.
The primary fault with the setup is the map and the second is the child-like/MA use of CV's.
No offense is meant to the CT CM's as both of these things are out of their control.
F.
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Well, it will get better, they're in the process of beta testing the user-made historical terrains for the CT.
With score pages reflecting CT stats, and perk point system implemented, and a few historical terrains that actually "work" with strat, spawn points..it can only get better. Add to that more and more early war A/C that HTC folks are developing..
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mmm....when I log in, early afternoon CET, sometimes the CT is empty. I'm thinking, if another CT player sees that there is at least 1 person there, chances are that he'll join instead of heading towards MA.
But while I'm waiting for some company, I won't sit still in the tower or just fly circles in the air. Most of times I'll do some JABO, and I confess I've already captured a couple of fields that way :o.
However, if i stay alone for too long, I switch countries and grab another field to avoid disbalance.
Now, if another player joins, in most cases I won't team to continue the milkrunning land grabbing game.
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Sorry if I came off wrong
I love the the ct I had flown there more then the main.
I have given and will give the cms a big fat Salute for stepping up on there time to do the research and get arenas set for us to have fun in.
I have no reason or inclination to assign blame for anything that happens in the ct to anyone else except us the folks who fly there.
look someone has to get it started in the ct. we want folks there. So if 1 guy or a couple are the ct I dont want them to log out of boredom but how do ya balance the impact of the land grabs.
I dont wanna take away your fun any more then lose mine until us folks who fly there come with some solution to accomodate the largest number possible the ct wont reach its full potential.
Boredom is the biggest nme of the ct. Not many folk wanna cap bases well away from the main fight or do recon in empty areas looking for nme cvs we dont have the numbers (53 last night wow).
I beggining to repeat myself but anyway ........I just wanted to clear a few things up.
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Thank you for getting this sorted Wotan, much clearer and understandeable, to me at least
I will shut up now :D
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This is almost funny, I honestly think it's a matter of "you can't please everyone all of the time". When we put cv's just offshore, we're told that we're wrong, and dweebs,and vulchers, and whatever else. When we take the cv out a ways (my preference), we are accused of getting too much alt and "vulching", although how you vulch an enemy who is flying along at 8 or 10k is beyond me. It almost seems that if someone doesn't like the fact that they got killed, they just yell about "vulchers" and dweebs. I personally have never shot someone on a runway, and very rarely have I shot someone who didn't have at least enough alt and/or speed to manouver. If you stay below 2k all the time, don't squeak about "vulchers" killing you, it's your choice to stay low. And as far as the fleets, yes, we were flying from a cv last night, it's what our squad does. I noticed 2 of the fleets had no a/c enabled, so only 2 were upping birds, and one was a little farther out. When we tried to take the cv we were flying from farther out, some other player with a bit more rank took it out from under us and right back to shore. There was also once we couldn't land, as the cv had been destroyed, and we had to switch cv's... so there were not 4 cv's all just offshore all night. Had it not been squad night for us, yeah, I would have switched sides early on until it evened up later, I personally think the jap birds are fun to fly. And realistically, in this scenario and in reality, the allies simply had better birds. If you don't like this scenario, be patient, it will change soon, and maybe your pet scenario will be next. Okay, I got all that off my mind, don't anyone take it personally, was not meant to be an attack on anyone. Check the tanks on those flamethrowers to be sure they're full before you open up on me, lol.
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The solution to in-shore CV's is to separate the shore bombardment/amhib spawning function from the naval air ops functions. You do this by creating two types of fleets, the CVBG (CV Battle Group) and the SAG (Surface Action Group). In the Phillipine's terrain (once it's done), this is exactly how it is set up. The CVBG's have no cruisers; just three flat-tops and four DE escorts. The SAG's have three CA's (cruisers, for the nautically challenged) and four DE's. Had I these options in the current terrain, I would only enable LVT's in the SAG's, and aircraft (by default) on the CVBG's. I'm just sorry the SAB's don't have a battleship or two, in addition to the three CA's and four DE's.
"Big gun, hehehuhu...really BIG gun, huhuhu!"
Sabre
CT Team
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Sabre
You guys ever think about a Midway type setup? One without any land bases and just a couple of cv's for each side? Quick resets but sounds fun/different ...
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well...last night was kind of an exception though - its not always like that.
it was fdb squad night and we decided to all fight for the same country and support the ct for a night.
blame us if anyone for the dweebery - that field capture just turned into a drunken field ravaging :)
if its any consolation i saw hangtime commanding some goons out there and worrying about field capture.
come on what do you expect? sheesh sor-ry! try it again today, i'm sure the mood will be better in there.
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I had a blast. Killed many politicly incorrect oriental types, knocked down some squid cookie factories, vultched the bejeezus outta one of the two remaining fields, and generally laffed my bellybutton off when animal vultched urcin one too many times and he threw a chan 1 tantrum.
The lil kamakazies constantly upping from the field we were trying to take kept us low and engaged while the smarter sly lil yellow divits upped from their secure field to assault the fleet and start chopping down defenses at their captured outlying fields.
Result, IJN repulsed our capture, and regained ground by flanking the allied attack. All in all, I had fun, the nips had fun, the allies had fun, and we all went home happy. Except Urchin. Who needs to re-aquaint himself with the stratagey of upping from uncontested fields if he don't wanna get shot off the runway trying to up in the middle of a field assault.
BTW.. those CV's just didn't HAPPEN to be there... it took 4 hours of arena time to GET 'em there in position for what was an absoultely hugely fun amphibious assault the likes of which I've never seen before.. 8 CVBG's, 4 w/ a/c enabled, 2 brit and 2 USN., all within close proximity. Was truly a riot.. the rice eaters were kamakazing the Bombardment groups we'd placed closer in to screen for the A/C equipped fleets.
Anyway.. like Mako pointed out.. the CT can't be all things to all people.
Urchin.. truly sorry if yer feathers got rumpled; but nobody pointed a gun to yer head and MADE you up from a hot strip... ;)
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S! Hangtime
I just want to salute you and your Squad for making the CT work.
Your use of the CV Groups was exactly what we were hoping players would tactically organize on this map.
As Sabre says, next time we do a Pacific setup, we will have pure surface combat, and pure CV Task Groups and getting in close will be the role of one, and standing off and launching aircraft will be the role of the other.
You will be able to plan and create even more complex situations... :)
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No Hangtime.... that wasn't a tantrum. Me throwing a tantrum would be me saying on Channel 1 that I could probably take any 4 of your squad in a 'fair fight'. I never threw any tantrum, I never even lost my temper. I was merely asking a question. The question was "Are you guys actually enjoying this?" Apparently yes, you were, as you basically just wanted to rack up vulches to proove how 1337 you guys were. I can tell you that the 'IJN' certainly wasn't 'having fun' when I got there, nor when I left- either time. But, some people really enjoy vulching I guess. As for me, I didn't give a toejam. The CT counts for nothing either way. What did I have to lose by upping repeatedly so your squad could show how much they r0x0r?
Like I said before, have fun in your CT. If you decide to come back to where the big boys play, I'll shoot you down there.
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Sorry to see you leave angry urchin. I was online and flying IJN at the time and don't see what the fuss is about. We had a clean field 15 miles away at 6k altitude you could have upped from.
Anyways, it'll be here if you decide to come back.
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Well, hell; Urchin.. I just live to vultch, shoot chutes and listen to Luftwhiners wail. When they get all pissy about the odds and threaten to leave because they can't get a 'fair' fight; I try my damndest to get in front of them so they can shoot me down... (everybody else did) ... unfortunately, you couldn't seem to get off the runway much.
We will all miss you terribly in the CT, but hey, if it's too tough for you in there, then by all means do go to the Main. Never any vultchin or mindless furballs in there. Good luck with your scorecard sorties in the main arena! Oh, and hey, club a baby seal fer me!
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I didn't leave angry. I left dissapointed. I didn't get a chance to try out the Stalingrad setup because I was having computer trouble. My only experience with the CT in its 'new' setup was the Pacific setup. I had expected something different than the MA- I was just wrong. That is fine, it happens from time to time. But I don't feel that people should be singing praises for the CT because it is 'different and better' than the MA. It IS different, marginally, but it isn't even close to better.
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The funniest part about last night while we were vultching was the fact the Japanese had an elevated field the same distance from the field we were hitting as our CV was...
Okay, second funniest.
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Sorry Urchin.. just a quick question...
Do you think that with the relatively low total numbers in the CT your presence, skills and attention to good SA and ACM would have rewarded you and your teamates more than the same efforts in the MA with 400 warpy trash talkin newbies on line?
Or is it just that your plane wasn't enabled, your choice of field sucked, the side you were on was getting as thrashed as your scorecard that you were 'dissapointed'? (in fact it wasn't that way for very long thanks to others that made good decisions and fought back smart instead of walking away)
I can remember times flying in the WB MA when there were less than 20 folks on. It was a ball. I can remember when there were less than 50 folks on AH on a weeknight. It was a blast.
I'm just finding it amazing that more folks have not spotted the best diffrence of all about the CT.. what you do can have an impact on the sim. In the MA a guy can't do anything other than get swamped by the horde of warping wailing bishknitcrooks.
Imagine what a squad can do in the CT.
:cool:
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I was in the other night when there were 4 fleets parked off shore.
Now I'm not a bomber dweeb, but hey, I figured those shore defense batteries are there for a reason. I spent a half hour gunning away as best I could with those things. They are very hard to hit with. I was aiming manually... is there another way? Even when I got hits, I saw no damage. I pegged one CV twice, and I pinged others once, tagged some escorts accidentally. Basically I can only get hits if the CV is moving perpendicular to my line of vision, if it is changing range at all it's nearly impossible to hit them. I had more hits by roadkill luck than skillful aim, I can tell you that. :)
I guess I just think the shore defense batteries are useless. Shame, because there could be some great CVBG vs. shore defense gun battles there if it worked better. In addition, I would have been much happier if I could have spent a half hour in the guns and have sunk something and at least force the fleets to back off or be sunk. The were able to completely ignore me and another guy in the gun turrets, so I think something needs to be done about the shore defense guns effectiveness. I think if the IJN could have had an effect with the shore defensive batteries, it would have been much more fun. Think how great a big gun battle that would have been! As is, the CVBG's simply ignore the impotent shore batteries.
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CVs are toughened in this setup. They usually require 3-4 hits from a SB to go down. Here I believe you need 10+ hits.
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Originally posted by deSelys
CVs are toughened in this setup. They usually require 3-4 hits from a SB to go down. Here I believe you need 10+ hits.
True,
I sunk one the other day, my guess was at least 12.
eskimo
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Originally posted by deSelys
CVs are toughened in this setup. They usually require 3-4 hits from a SB to go down. Here I believe you need 10+ hits.
that's the first thing I'd change then, if anything make them easier to kill so they'll be kept farther offshore, and put more batteries and mannable acks around a base so it can be defended more easily when the FB's show up for the party :)
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urchin... you enjoyed yourself in the CT. You are just too stupid to know it. If you were smarter you would have had an even better time. You should skulk back to the MA tho because you really don't have the skills required to beat the best pilots in AH, which, are all here in the CT (nevermind that you didn't think much of their abilities in the MA)...
You can't understand the complex acm and SA of "my plane is faster and doesn't turn as well as the only plane I may run into so I should never turn and I should run if jumped". Or the "myu plane is not as fast but turns and climbs better so i should dodge the only other plane I may meet and never chase it very far. In addition, I should probly stay close to my own ack or not come down."
But.... don't go away mad because the CT guys are a better crowd than the skilless ma trash and are above personal attacks.
lazs
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bradys5 is a sniper with the sb's
he ran up 15 or so kills in the ma one night picking off pt boats after he sunk their fleet..........
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I had a blast killin FDBs that night. Don't know what you're worked up about Urchin. That field to the southwest was at 6k and only took 5 mins to reach the action. I enjoyed being called a Ju88 dweeb by Animal after I sank their CV :) There's an oxymoron if I ever heard one...."Ju88 Dweeb" hehe
Anyways...it was fun and it was nice to see some serious numbers in the fight. Don't let one sour apple spoil it FDBs, come on back for some more, we need all the targets we can get :)
BANZAI!!!!!!!!!
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It was fun last night... my impressions: the Zeke sucks - I had somone... (buhdman, maybe?) in an F6F just toying with me because it was so slow. I finally suckered him into getting low, and then after some rubber bullets from my 20mms, I didn't have enough firepower to bring him down with the 7mms.
The Ki-61, on the other hand, rocks - I really like that plane.
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Zeke rules! unless you're in a swarm of hurricanes and seafires. ;) then it is just a get one kill, get killed type of plane. Tho it is funny taunting Spits that run from you. lol
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It's funny simply having a plane the seafire can run from.
Ki-61 otoh is seriously underrated even in the MA.
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You should shut the hell up Urching.
I vulched you FAIR and SQUARE.
At some point I even thought you were enjoying it.
I'd kill you, and you respawn two seconds later, to be vulched again, and again, and again... until you told me I was a " phag" and left the arena.
Mind you, the time I killed you for the last time before you decided to leave you were actually on the advantage. It was mrfish, Osage (who sucks), and I, vs YOU, DREX, HBLAIR, and two other Zekes.
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Lol.. I don't believe the word 'phag' was ever typed. Actually, I did enjoy myself for a very short while. After that I got bored very quickly. As far as the last fight we had, I remember getting one guy and then seeing 5 guys come after me... I saw one other A6M in the air near me, he was being chased by the guy I killed.
Lazs... I'm not sure if that is an insult at me or at the CT crowd...
And Hangtime- yes, one person definately can make a bigger impact in an arena of 50 than in an arena of 450, I agree with you there.
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lol.......you were THAT mad, Urchin? So mad you didn't realize what you were typing? :p
I remember the "phag" you put on Channel 1, followed quickly by your verbalizing displeasure at the current state of affairs. ;)