Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kruel on August 18, 2014, 11:23:22 PM
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Tonight was another fun one, had been pending for a while but we finally got to do it today. A total of 10 Sorties.
The players:
The Damned: Kruel, Skyyr
AoM: ChangeUp, Triton28
The Rules:
5K Merge
Cold Pass first, anything goes afterwards
Fuel Load Out: Pilot Discretion
No Ammo Dumping.
The Score:
(The Damned picked first plane, loser of round picked the next plane).
1st Round: The Damned selected the LA7 - Winner: The Damned
2nd Round: AoM selected the P38J - Winner: The Damned
3rd Round: AoM selected the Bf-109K4 - Winner: The Damned
4th Round: AoM selected the P38J - Winner: AoM
5th Round: The Damned selected the FW190D9 - Winner: The Damned
6th Round: AoM selected the Spit V - Winner: The Damned
7th Round: AoM selected the F4U-1A - Winner: The Damned
8th Round: AoM selected the Bf109F4 - Winner: The Damned
9th Round: AoM selected the Bf109F4 - Winner: AoM
10th Round: The Damned selected the Bf109F4 - Winner: The Damned
Final Score 8-2.
Was great fun, looking forward to the next set of fights. Till next time! <S>
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Mistakes were made... lol
Good teamwork guys. You two flew well. The 2v2 game is a bit different for sure, and both of you did a pretty good job of not slowing the fight down and/or staying on top of us.
Till next time.. :cheers:
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Great job, guys.
:salute to all involved.
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*Loads Photobucket with funny pictures for pending Flame war*
Don't make me use these! :noid
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For guys who supposedly don't give a damn what the community thinks you sure didn't waste any time posting a "look at us" thread.
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For guys who supposedly don't give a damn what the community thinks you sure didn't waste any time posting a "look at us" thread.
We had another squad v squad competition and we posted the results.... exactly like we did the last time we had one. Win or lose, it's the format we've chosen. You of all people should understand the value in sticking to a chosen format.
It also might behoove you to quit confusing caring about the opinions of others and promoting good, fun competition.
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For guys who supposedly don't give a damn what the community thinks you sure didn't waste any time posting a "look at us" thread.
You're mistaken sir, I did it when we lost as well. No matter the result, I will post.
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For guys who supposedly don't give a damn what the community thinks you sure didn't waste any time posting a "look at us" thread.
They care. They have an objective. This thread furthers same.
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:headscratch:
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From what I know about all of this, the only thing going on here is Kruel,Triton28,skyyr and Changeup all agreed to go have some friendly competition in the DA 2vs2....
they agreed upon a set of rules and format, and had a fun time ( I am hoping by all participants ) in getting some friendly competitive 2 vs 2 dogfights.....
Triton28 did not post any harsh remarks, so why would anyone else who has posted try to stir the damn pot!
Vraciu, please stop trying to backstage instigate crap.... I am kindly asking you to stop!
I hope all of you had a great time
<S> & Cheers
TC
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Very good fun. <S>
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The Rules:
5K Merge
Cold Pass first, anything goes afterwards
Fuel Load Out: Pilot Discretion
No Ammo Dumping.
I wouldn't agree to this format myself.
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Can , I don't know . . . One of my squaddies and myself have a swing at a 2 v 2?
I haven't played in a couple of weeks as I have been waiting for my mother to ship my joystick to Annapolis, but the tracking says it will arrive between Wednesday and Friday.
I am sure it will be a great way to knock some rust off. :cheers:
:salute
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From what I know about all of this, the only thing going on here is Kruel,Triton28,skyyr and Changeup all agreed to go have some friendly competition in the DA 2vs2....
they agreed upon a set of rules and format, and had a fun time ( I am hoping by all participants ) in getting some friendly competitive 2 vs 2 dogfights.....
Triton28 did not post any harsh remarks, so why would anyone else who has posted try to stir the damn pot!
Vraciu, please stop trying to backstage instigate crap.... I am kindly asking you to stop!
I hope all of you had a great time
<S> & Cheers
TC
How am I instigating?
Ask your "boys" and they will tell you themselves what I wrote is absolutely truthful and accurate (and might very well be a hat tip, to boot).
The instigation has nothing to do with me, in any event.
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I wouldn't agree to this format myself.
Only the third criteria is questionable.
Films plz, if thats possible.
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I wouldn't agree to this format myself.
Yeah it does seem a bit sketch.
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How am I instigating?
The instigation has nothing to do with me, in any event.
I would view it as trying to "flame bait", honestly
done with this part of the thread, ok will not answer any more unnecessary questions
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Only the third criteria is questionable.
I would have done cold passes period..no "anything after the first" kinda stuff.
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I would have done cold passes period..no "anything after the first" kinda stuff.
that is a very questionable call, does one team break after both planes have crossed the 3/9 line or do they break after crossing the 3/9 line of their opponent's forward most plane only?
This is one reason I like to use the bracket attack in these 2vs2 competitions, it gives ya more space and a bigger view of the overall picture right at the merge
one thing I saw in the rules format that I , myself, thought should be there and wasn't is:
Once engaged you can not extend further than a set distance, with it being a 2vs2, I would probably say 4K distance Max ( or 5K distance Max once engaged ), to where it is normally just 2.5K distance for a 1vs1....
but This was all 4 of them's agreement for this particular instance...
just a thought regarding the rules format....
Please keep this thread civil, Thank You
<S>
TC
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I would view it as trying to "flame bait", honestly
done with this part of the thread, ok will not answer any more unnecessary questions
You are entitled to your opinion.
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in a 2V2 cold merge the team that spreads out before merge will win.
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I would have done cold passes period..no "anything after the first" kinda stuff.
Same here, but it depends on the inner morale.
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in a 2V2 cold merge the team that spreads out before merge will win.
Why?
that is a very questionable call, does one team break after both planes have crossed the 3/9 line or do they break after crossing the 3/9 line of their opponent's forward most plane only?
This is one reason I like to use the bracket attack in these 2vs2 competitions, it gives ya more space and a bigger view of the overall picture right at the merge
one thing I saw in the rules format that I , myself, thought should be there and wasn't is:
Once engaged you can not extend further than a set distance, with it being a 2vs2, I would probably say 4K distance Max ( or 5K distance Max once engaged ), to where it is normally just 2.5K distance for a 1vs1....
but This was all 4 of them's agreement for this particular instance...
just a thought regarding the rules format....
Please keep this thread civil, Thank You
<S>
TC
keep it at 2.5K any further then that the fight is going to split into just 2 1v1s....at least that was my experience in the 2v2s I have been apart of.
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Beifallführern Vs TheDamned
:old:
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One thought:
if the AoM/Few/TG/80th/JG-xx/LD/etc. posted every single match they have ever won... ;)
But as long as it is fun for both, why not?
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Why?
keep it at 2.5K any further then that the fight is going to split into just 2 1v1s....at least that was my experience in the 2v2s I have been apart of.
Seperation. Lead ship has the angle everytime as well and the the 3/9 line timing is unmanageable. Someone always goes through first.
You will see HOs and some Rams, lol. Lotsa of victories by HOs. Lotsa missed shots. That's on Triton and I. Fuel was a problem too. Pilot discretion so if you run out, your dead. First fight that happened.
The format didn't really matter folks. What mattered is two ship tactics. I encourage everyone to spend some time trying it. It's different but generally the winner will be the guy who gets guns on after the merge at any angle. They flew well.
Two 1 v 1s only happen if they stay in those fights. They don't and we shouldn't have tried. One move vertically, remerged, one turn, switch. The more aggressive had spent enough E to not be ready for the E that had been gathered by the opponent during the switch.
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Only the third criteria is questionable.
Films plz, if thats possible.
I would have done cold passes period..no "anything after the first" kinda stuff.
Respectfully....Why?
A few links for you.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,357986.msg4745737.html#msg4745737 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,357986.msg4745737.html#msg4745737)
Specifically:
· General Tournament Rules
- All merges will be guns cold (no firing until you have passed your opponent's 3/9 line).
- All merges will be co-alt at 7.5K until within icon range at which point a merge break can begin. Players should expeditiously climb to merge altitude.
- Anything goes after the initial merge.
The red highlights are mine.
If there is some argument against the use because this was a multi-ship engagement, let me point you to another set of rules.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,254157.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,254157.0.html)
In summary:
1.) The established dueling tourney ladder, used for several years, has not prohibited front quarter shots after the first merge.
2.) The SDL rules did not prohibit front quarter shots either.
So again, respectfully, I ask the question: Why would you both not agree to the provision?
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Only the third criteria is questionable.
Films plz, if thats possible.
Not sure if it's questionable now when it wasn't in the 5v5 post..care to elaborate?
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Yeah it does seem a bit sketch.
Again, I think this should have been mentioned in the first 5v5 post, you did post on there, why didn't the question come up then? Would you care to elaborate?
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One thought:
if the AoM/Few/TG/80th/JG-xx/LD/etc. posted every single match they have ever won... ;)
But as long as it is fun for both, why not?
Not sure, I haven't been around long enough to know, I'm sure results were posted in some SDL forum. Since that's not active, I am posting them here. Again, I ask the same question, why didn't you mention this in my previous 5v5 post?
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in a 2V2 cold merge the team that spreads out before merge will win.
Not exactly true.
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From what I know about all of this, the only thing going on here is Kruel,Triton28,skyyr and Changeup all agreed to go have some friendly competition in the DA 2vs2....
they agreed upon a set of rules and format, and had a fun time ( I am hoping by all participants ) in getting some friendly competitive 2 vs 2 dogfights.....
Triton28 did not post any harsh remarks, so why would anyone else who has posted try to stir the damn pot!
TC
this^
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this^
Very much agreed. :salute
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They care. They have an objective. This thread furthers same.
You're starting to act like someone who is butthurt, are you butthurt bro?
Spreading rumors, spewing empty statements without being able to back them up. That's why you were removed from the squad. Quit acting like the crazy ex girlfriend who keys up a car because she got dumped. Man up, get better.
I'd ask you to back up your empty talk, but since you know us so well you know how that's is going to turn out.
Hope I didn't drone on too much or give ya a headache.
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Not sure if it's questionable now when it wasn't in the 5v5 post..care to elaborate?
I will never go "anything goes". Not my taste, thats all.
Not sure, I haven't been around long enough to know, I'm sure results were posted in some SDL forum. Since that's not active, I am posting them here. Again, I ask the same question, why didn't you mention this in my previous 5v5 post?
This is one thing what is allright to post - once. More is just... hey, look at me. I dont care about the results as you might guess... wasnt there, i dont know anything about this.
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This is one thing what is allright to post - once. More is just... hey, look at me. I dont care about the results as you might guess... wasnt there, i dont know anything about this.
Again, respectfully, the main reason this is being done is to try to jump start activities like this again, encourage competition beyond the ususal LWMA fights, etc.
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I will never go "anything goes". Not my taste, thats all.
This is one thing what is allright to post - once. More is just... hey, look at me. I dont care about the results as you might guess... wasnt there, i dont know anything about this.
Can't really enforce anything else past the first merge, you wouldn't have done SDL then since it was part of those rules.
Oh, it was alright to post when we lost, but not when we won...gotcha.
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Again, respectfully, the main reason this is being done is to try to jump start activities like this again, encourage competition beyond the ususal LWMA fights, etc.
Personally I don't think these are the "activities" that should be encouraged. All we need is MORE egotistical, chest thumpers in this game. I'd rather see squads that work together to make the game more fun for everyone around them, not just another "king of the hill" group.
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Can't really enforce anything else past the first merge
This. Factor in lag and differing views between players (it's completely possible to see your opponent not have a guns solution on your end while they actually have one on their end due to naturally-occurring delay) and you just can't enforce them in an unbiased manner.
Not only that, but a neutral, mid-altitude, guns-cold (what you call "no HO") initial merge where anything goes afterwards is the de facto standard for virtually every air combat sim to date... and for good reason - it's how real fights are flown even today.
Seeing as this has been the format for even the 1v1 bracket tournaments, I'm not sure what the issue is here. The merge, as described, allows for a completely neutral merge - no one holds the advantage or can gain the advantage prior. Afterwards, everything is based on tactics and their inherent merits.
This type of setup shows which tactics actually work in air combat... and which ones don't.
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Personally I don't think these are the "activities" that should be encouraged. All we need is MORE egotistical, chest thumpers in this game. I'd rather see squads that work together to make the game more fun for everyone around them, not just another "king of the hill" group.
Ah, you're against a competition where the ground is truly neutral and the only requirement is to fight and die by your own merits. No biased or arbitrary rules, no crying or whining allowed about where someone was shot (you might hate that rule) - you're even free to come back and try again.
Yes, I can see why you'd hate that.
You're a member of the Trophies and Medals for Everyone Coalition... amirite?!
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Personally I don't think these are the "activities" that should be encouraged. All we need is MORE egotistical, chest thumpers in this game. I'd rather see squads that work together to make the game more fun for everyone around them, not just another "king of the hill" group.
Thank you for your response, Fugi. I respect your opinion, understand the points you bring up, and share your concerns ...at least to a degree.
That said, there will always be "chest thumpers" in any activity that involves competition....it's human nature. The best anyone can do is try to "keep it light". I think BOTH sides in this particular engagement and the previous one are doing a good job of keeping that controlled and respectful. I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that isn't typical behavior for either side! :D
Maybe there is hope for humanity! :O
;) :aok
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Can't really enforce anything else past the first merge, you wouldn't have done SDL then since it was part of those rules.
Oh, it was alright to post when we lost, but not when we won...gotcha.
The "anything goes" after the merge is pretty standard, but in my experience in dueling brackets, there usually isn't anything resembling face shots because neither pilot wants to win that way. Yes, it's historically accurate and the rules don't prohibit it, but it's still a good way to ruin what could be a good fight.
As for you guys posting the results, I have no issue with it because I know where you're coming from. Most people here don't post results from spur of the moment DA matches because, frankly, nobody else usually cares... lol.
Instead of redoing the SDL, why don't you form some sort of 2v2 league? I have no idea if anyone else wants to do it, but at least then people won't look at you funny when you post results.
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No, very few have the time/talent to become a "top dog", however everyone can work together and have fun.
Nothing wrong with groups having fighter cover over buffs working together the take/flatten a base. All that does is generate more fights, more action, more fun. Where as a few hot shots coming in picking a few kills and then bullying people on the radio create animosity and frustration that causes people to leave.
I prefer the fun over frustration any day.
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Ah, you're against a competition where the ground is truly neutral and the only requirement is to fight and die by your own merits. No biased or arbitrary rules, no crying or whining allowed about where someone was shot (you might hate that rule) - you're even free to come back and try again.
Eassssyyy boy. Woah there. Woooaaahhh there! *hauls back on the reins* :D
See what I mean about the human competitive spirit? :lol
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Most people here don't post results from spur of the moment DA matches because, frankly, nobody else usually cares... lol.
Ah, we apologize for posting our 5v5 match last week then. It was spur of the moment, but we always aim for transparency, which is why we posted it.
That said, our 2v2 was discussed (on these very forums) for quite some time (close to two weeks, if I remember correctly), so it definitely wasn't spur of the moment. It was simply a matter of finding a night that we would all be on together to fight our previously agreed-upon match.
-=S=-
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Ah, you're against a competition where the ground is truly neutral and the only requirement is to fight and die by your own merits.
Fighting and dying by your own merits wouldn't include 2v2 matches, IMO. I mean, unless your wingman just augers every flight and you beat both guys by yourself.
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Fighting and dying by your own merits wouldn't include 2v2 matches, IMO. I mean, unless your wingman just augers every flight and you beat both guys by yourself.
There are merits to every type of fight, which come down to tactics. In 1v1, it's one pilot's tactics vs another's. In 2v2, it's both individual and team tactics vs the same, but it's still the merits of one set of tactics vs. another.
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Ah, we apologize for posting our 5v5 match last week then. It was spur of the moment, but we always aim for transparency, which is why we posted it.
That said, our 2v2 was discussed (on these very forums) for quite some time (close to two weeks, if I remember correctly), so it definitely wasn't spur of the moment. It was simply a matter of finding a night that we would all be on together to fight our previously agreed-upon match.
-=S=-
No need to apologize, but if you're wondering why people are giving you that WTF face, that might be why.
Spur of the moment, for me, means not knowing I'm about to do something until 5 minutes before I do it. That was pretty much the turnaround between "Wanna DA?" from you guys and us being in there. I'm not really sure why you're taking issue with the semantics of it though. It doesn't really matter.
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There are merits to every type of fight, which come down to tactics. In 1v1, it's one pilot's tactics vs another's. In 2v2, it's both individual and team tactics vs the same, but it's still the merits of one set of tactics vs. another.
lol... ok. It just looked odd to me that you were talking about "own merits" and really meant your team. I mean, you gotta give credit to the guy clearing your 6, right?
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lol... ok. It just looked odd to me that you were talking about "own merits" and really meant your team. I mean, you gotta give credit to the guy clearing your 6, right?
Are you claiming he doesn't? Might want to ask Kruel about that item before throwing it out....
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lol... ok. It just looked odd to me that you were talking about "own merits" and really meant your team. I mean, you gotta give credit to the guy clearing your 6, right?
This was a squadron/wingman competition, was it not? We all knew that going into it; in fact, I can pull previous forum posts where all four of us acknowledged it would be a 2v2 competition. With that, I'm not sure where you think that my I failed to give my wingman credit. The fact we won gives my wingman not only credit, but justifies his prediction of the fight that he made weeks ago.
You gave credit to your wingman for attempting to clear your six, right? ;)
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This was a squadron/wingman competition, was it not? We all knew that going into it; in fact, I can pull previous forum posts where all four of us acknowledged it would be a 2v2 competition. With that, I'm not sure where you think that my I failed to give my wingman credit. The fact we won gives my wingman not only credit, but justifies his assessment of the fight that he made weeks ago. By extension, it also implies that your wingman failed.
I think you need to reread my last post. Fighting and dying on your own merits implies you are going it alone, with nobody there to offer you assistance. Except you say your implication was that the combined set of merits of Team Kruel/Skyyr is what you meant. Cool and the gang bro. I'll know exactly what you mean next time. :)
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I think you need to reread my last post. Fighting and dying on your own merits implies you are going it alone, with nobody there to offer you assistance. Except you say your implication was that the combined set of merits of Team Kruel/Skyyr is what you meant. Cool and the gang bro. I'll know exactly what you mean next time. :)
Ah, then please forgive me for using the subject of you in the plural, where "you" is understood to be referring to the subject or group relevant to the topic. I forget that not everyone remembers high school English mechanics. I will clarify next time.
-=S=-
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXd6u9o6dYY
Lol, I dare you guys to sit through this entire video ;)
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Ah, then please forgive me for using the subject of plural understood you, where "you" is understood to be referring to the subject or group relevant to the topic. I forget that not everyone remembers high school English mechanics. I will clarify next time.
-=S=-
lol... please do.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXd6u9o6dYY
Lol, I dare you guys to sit through this entire video ;)
That was distrubing.
How dare you attempt to interrupt the purse fight! Away with you!
:D
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Now I am become Death, Destroyer of Threads
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Personally I don't think these are the "activities" that should be encouraged. All we need is MORE egotistical, chest thumpers in this game. I'd rather see squads that work together to make the game more fun for everyone around them, not just another "king of the hill" group.
I disagree. What is happening is no different that what has happened in the past...remember the famous AH vs. WB duel? Or maybe one of the multitudes of Blue Knights vs. AoM duels or any other squad vs. squad duel? There is nothing wrong with having little side activities like this, the only time it becomes a problem is if one or both sides start to exhibit some rather poor sportsmanship.
ack-ack
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This has become stupid. There are no reasons, excuses or explanations necessary. We fought a 2 v 2 last night. The format was agreed to. I don't really give a damn if anyone else would have agreed to it or not. The rules are the rules and they were abided by. It was fun...real fun. It was the first of many 2 v 2. It's a different format with different tactics.
Go try it so you can give an opinion that actually has some experience behind it.
Looking forward to the next one
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Not sure if it's questionable now when it wasn't in the 5v5 post..care to elaborate?
Usually in a duel, whether it be 1v1 or squadron vs. squadron, things are set to make the fight as even as possible. This means that both sides agree to a plane set, merge altitude, fuel and ammo loads. This helps cut down on "you took less ammo!" or "I took too much fuel!" whines after the duel and helps ensure the duel is on the same level for both sides as much as possible.
ack-ack
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So is that a no to my 2v2 proposal?
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PS - I'd rather spend 2 hours a night in the DA getting the pizz whooped out of me in equal fights than spend 5 hours in the MA flying around waiting to run into a fight. But that's just me. It's worth it for competitive fun and it's more than worth it to see how others do different things differently.
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Can't really enforce anything else past the first merge, you wouldn't have done SDL then since it was part of those rules.
Oh, it was alright to post when we lost, but not when we won...gotcha.
its not me being butthurt, as i have absolutely no reason for that. Got that too? Good, thanks.
True that you cannot force anyone to do anything. Still you can force yourself not to do something - not to ho your opponents eyes out in this case. Not stating that you were doig that because i have not seen any film, only stated that i would never go anything goes. Yet you bring up all the crap.
Its not nice and not too civil either. Be happy that you have won, im done with you and this kind of hypocricy.
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PS - I'd rather spend 2 hours a night in the DA getting the pizz whooped out of me in equal fights than spend 5 hours in the MA flying around waiting to run into a fight. But that's just me. It's worth it for competitive fun and it's more than worth it to see how others do different things differently.
The MA doesn't get lame til around 11:30 or Midnight when the numbers drop. Not to say the DA isn't fun by any means.
I made a call on 200 for some duels last night, you guys must have already been in the DA when I did this. I got no response.
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Usually in a duel, whether it be 1v1 or squadron vs. squadron, things are set to make the fight as even as possible. This means that both sides agree to a plane set, merge altitude, fuel and ammo loads. This helps cut down on "you took less ammo!" or "I took too much fuel!" whines after the duel and helps ensure the duel is on the same level for both sides as much as possible.
ack-ack
I agree, but wouldn't you be putting yourself at a disadvantage initially (by taking more fuel). By doing so you are taking a calculated risk that the fight will last longer than what your opponent can fight for, but then again your opponent has the same options as you do. At this point it's a tactical decision.
Also I think it's one less thing you have to control for. What if someone is disingenuous and loads 25% when the parties agreed to 50(it's a non issue in this case). It's hard to get a read on that in the middle of a fight, if this is suspected, then you have to go through getting the films.
I guess that was the rationale behind it...
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You're starting to act like someone who is butthurt, are you butthurt bro?
Spreading rumors, spewing empty statements without being able to back them up. That's why you were removed from the squad. Quit acting like the crazy ex girlfriend who keys up a car because she got dumped. Man up, get better.
I'd ask you to back up your empty talk, but since you know us so well you know how that's is going to turn out.
Hope I didn't drone on too much or give ya a headache.
Butthurt? No. I merely pointed out the obvious that you do have an objective, which you and Skyyr have repeatedly pointed out to me. (That overall objective is in fact admirable. I think your guilty conscience caused you to read something that wasn't there.)
As for 1v1s, you do not have a perfect record against me so don't act like you do or that you know the outcome would always be in your favor. You're still Skyyr's Mini-Me in that regard.
Lastly, your statement about me being "kicked out of the squad" and the reasons behind same is a lie. I have the screenshots. You stuck your nose into something without thought then lied about what you did.
The fact is that you guys make yourselves/The Damned look bad on the forums and on 200, not me. I couldn't in a thousand years cause as much drama as you two do. My pointing out that fact--and your mutual refusal to address it like mature adults--is why I am gone, not your made up BS after the fact. (At least Skyyr has taken the time to hammer it out with me privately instead of running away like you did. He has actually been quite gracious about it, which I appreciate.)
I await your apology. Carry on.
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So is that a no to my 2v2 proposal?
Not in the least sir, let's set something up!
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I agree, but wouldn't you be putting yourself at a disadvantage initially (by taking more fuel). By doing so you are taking a calculated risk that the fight will last longer than what your opponent can fight for, but then again your opponent has the same options as you do. At this point it's a tactical decision.
Also I think it's one less thing you have to control for. What if someone is disingenuous and loads 25% when the parties agreed to 50(it's a non issue in this case). It's hard to get a read on that in the middle of a fight, if this is suspected, then you have to go through getting the films.
I guess that was the rationale behind it...
In truth, most fuel load outs are 11 minutes or more. Style of fight dictates the need for more fuel. Film exchange is agreed to upfront as in the brackets
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In truth, most fuel load outs are 11 minutes or more. Style of fight dictates the need for more fuel. Film exchange is agreed to upfront as in the brackets
If films show to be something that needs to be required as we carry this forward, then we'll include them. However, as it stands, the fuel loadouts (and likely ammo carrying) are up to pilot discretion. Therefore, the only variable is the altitude of the merge, which does not require film to confirm (unless one group was significantly faster at the merge or was spotted climbing higher than the merge alt prior to merging).
We're making this as simple as possible. A major detriment to this community is all of the self-imposed, arbitrary rules that serve no other purpose other than as excuses and crutches (He roped me! He HO'd me! They 2v1'd me! He loaded more fuel than me and outlasted me! He loaded less fuel than me and was more maneuverable! He loaded fewer bullets than me and could turn better! He had more ammo than me and I ran out first!) - screw that crap. Fly the same plane, meet at the required altitude, merge neutrally - everything else is up to you.
The pilots who make the wisest choices and fly the most effectively win.
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Butthurt? No? I merely pointed out the obvious that you do have an objective, which you and Skyyr have repeatedly pointed out to me. (That overall objective is in fact admirable. I think your guilty conscience caused you to read something that wasn't there.)
As for 1v1s, you do not have a perfect record against me so don't act like you do or that you know the outcome would always be in your favor. You're still Skyyr's Mini-Me in that regard.
Lastly, your statement about me being "kicked out of the squad" and the reasons behind same is a lie. I have the screenshots. You stuck your nose into something without thought then lied about what you did.
The fact is that you guys make yourselves/The Damned look bad on the forums and on 200, not me. I couldn't in a thousand years cause as much drama as you two do. My pointing out that fact--and your mutual refusal to address it like mature adults--is why I am gone, not your made up BS after the fact. (At least Skyyr has taken the time to hammer it out with me privately instead of running away like you did. He has actually been quite gracious about it, which I appreciate.)
I await your apology. Carry on.
You're going to keep waiting for a long long time, I am 150% sure how a duel between me and you will turn out. My statement stands.
You were kicked out of the squad, end of story. There is nothing to be running away from. You can continue to troll posts, make your indirect jabs here or there. Doesn't change the fact that that's all you can do and can't back it up with your flying.
ChangeUp and Triton have been trolling us for a while, and we retort, but at least they had the cojones to take the 2v2, I'm calling you out, anything else are just empty words.
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You're going to keep waiting for a long long time, I am 150% sure how a duel between me and you will turn out. My statement stands.
You were kicked out of the squad, end of story. There is nothing to be running away from. You can continue to troll posts, make your indirect jabs here or there. Doesn't change the fact that that's all you can do and can't back it up with your flying.
ChangeUp and Triton have been trolling us for a while, and we retort, but at least they had the cojones to take the 2v2, I'm calling you out, anything else are just empty words.
Oh! Oh! I know who he could 2v2 us with. FSOX! Eh, Vraciu? Eh? :rofl
Genuinely - we'd be more than happy to let him demonstrate how well we "run from him" (it's 9-2 now, btw - 9-4 if you count the 5v2 where he lost two wingmen lol).
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Yeah the only thing I don't like is HOing period. I mean if both of you can get around to make a square face shot then you shouldn't shoot. If you are both going 130 in a turn around and can easily HO shoot each other, I feel like it takes out of the fight to both shoot and die. If the other simply cannot get a square shot then I'd say the shot is okay. To me it is pretty obvious to tell, but face shooting takes a lot out of the fun and the fight.
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Yeah the only thing I don't like is HOing period. I mean if both of you can get around to make a square face shot then you shouldn't shoot.
"The HO shot is the easiest shot in the game to avoid."
-- Latrobe
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If films show to be something that needs to be required as we carry this forward, then we'll include them. However, as it stands, the fuel loadouts (and likely ammo carrying) are up to pilot discretion. Therefore, the only variable is the altitude of the merge, which does not require film to confirm (unless one group was significantly faster at the merge or was spotted climbing higher than the merge alt prior to merging).
We're making this as simple as possible. A major detriment to this community is all of the self-imposed, arbitrary rules that serve no other purpose other than as excuses and crutches (He roped me! He HO'd me! They 2v1'd me! He loaded more fuel than me and outlasted me! He loaded less fuel than me and was more maneuverable! He loaded fewer bullets than me and could turn better! He had more ammo than me and I ran out first!) - screw that crap. Fly the same plane, meet at the required altitude, merge neutrally - everything else is up to you.
The pilots who make the wisest choices and fly the most effectively win.
Not meaning to be argumentative but you and Skyyrs rules may not be what is generally accepted in this community. Unfortunately, this isnt up to you. If the rules change regarding fuel load outs due to community response, it's simply your choice to fight within those confines or not. Other than that, you might be flying against no one.
Either way, it's really not up to you if in fact it becomes a community activity or if it even hopes to become one.
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"The HO shot is the easiest shot in the game to avoid."
-- Latrobe
In this case though, one person is always gonna try to avoid while the other goes for the shot. To me it's just a lose lose in any duel type fight. If both of you attempt to make the HO when it is almost inevitable, it just takes the fun out of it.
P.S Am I the only one here who freaking hates the word butthurt. God I wish it would stop.
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Regarding my post above. Baldeagl continually updated rules for his brackets with community input. Rules are not made by guys who think up the activities. That isn't a way to garner participation. Just saying.
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Yeah the only thing I don't like is HOing period. I mean if both of you can get around to make a square face shot then you shouldn't shoot. If you are both going 130 in a turn around and can easily HO shoot each other, I feel like it takes out of the fight to both shoot and die. If the other simply cannot get a square shot then I'd say the shot is okay. To me it is pretty obvious to tell, but face shooting takes a lot out of the fun and the fight.
"The HO shot is the easiest shot in the game to avoid."
-- Latrobe
If I may quote another post.
HOing is just stupid, straight out, dumbest thing you can do.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Please HO me. I'll show you just how fast that will put you in a disadvantge. It's a desperate tactic for newbs and good players will easily capitalize on you
The entire thread quoted above has multiple posts about this, many from you Violator. I agree with your previous statements so I include them here.
Let's not make this into another HO thread and beat that to death....yet again.
:salute
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Regarding my post above. Baldeagl continually updated rules for his brackets with community input. Rules are not made by guys who think up the activities. That isn't a way to garner participation. Just saying.
I agree.
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Not meaning to be argumentative but you and Skyyrs rules may not be what is generally accepted in this community. Unfortunately, this isnt up to you. If the rules change regarding fuel load outs due to community response, it's simply your choice to fight within those confines or not. Other than that, you might be flying against no one.
Either way, it's really not up to you if in fact it becomes a community activity or if it even hopes to become one.
Oh, it's up to us. This is our event. If you don't like the idea of true neutrality, that's fine - go make up your own 2v2 event with your own rules - ours is here to stay. But hey - don't take our word for it, go to any other sim and see how far we're off.
This fight is the first of MANY for us. Thank you for starting it off with such a graceful loss. I'm assuming you won't be returning? :)
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You were kicked out of the squad, end of story. There is nothing to be running away from. You can continue to troll posts, make your indirect jabs here or there. Doesn't change the fact that that's all you can do and can't back it up with your flying.
ChangeUp and Triton have been trolling us for a while, and we retort, but at least they had the cojones to take the 2v2, I'm calling you out, anything else are just empty words.
At least you are consistent in your deceitfulness. :rock
I put my foot down and called out the hypocrisy and duplicity shown by some of you on 200 and on the forums. It was a principled stand for which I take immense pride. Character matters. Something you obviously lack.
Call someone who cares. I have no intention of getting into a dork sizing contest with you. I have dueled you plenty of times and do not fear it. I will not, however, feed your ego until you apologize for your assaults on my integrity. When you can repent like a man we will duel as much as you like.
*plonk*
(Amazing that I can actually pay you guys a compliment and still get attacked. Pathetic.)
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Oh! Oh! I know who he could 2v2 us with. FSOX! Eh, Vraciu? Eh? :rofl
Genuinely - we'd be more than happy to let him demonstrate how well we "run from him" (it's 9-2 now, btw - 9-4 if you count the 5v2 where he lost two wingmen lol).
He only lost one wingman to a pick. And you were smoked three times at least.
It wasn't 5:2. There were other greens in the area that weren't with us.
It was fun. A little healthy competition so to speak. :salute
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Oh, it's up to us. This is our event. If you don't like the idea of true neutrality, that's fine - go make up your own event with your own rules - ours is here to stay. This fight is the first of MANY for us. Thank you for starting it off with such a graceful loss.
I'm assuming you won't be returning? :)
You're assuming others will want that option. I know from past experience you'll be flying alone if you think unilaterally making rules will garner support for any activity and yes, the more I think about the variable, I will be out if fuel is pilot preference and I'm willing to bet you wont find many takers if you think that will fly.
Your event? Pffft. Without adversaries you have no event. Play nice with other or continue playing with yourself
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He only lost one wingman to a pick. And you were smoked three times at least.
It was fun. A little healthy competition so to speak. :salute
Is that what he told you (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/killsinp.php?playername=Skyyr&selectTour=LWTour175&pindex=44&kname=SFOX)? :rofl
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If I may quote another post.
The entire thread quoted above has multiple posts about this, many from you Violator. I agree with your previous statements so I include them here.
Let's not make this into another HO thread and beat that to death....yet again.
:salute
HOing is a lot different in duels than it is in the MA since in duels more often than not you will consistanly meet face to face. In the MA there are too many variables and its actually a lot easier to avoid.
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Is that what he told you (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/killsinp.php?playername=Skyyr&selectTour=LWTour175&pindex=44&kname=SFOX)? :rofl
I was there. I am the one that blew your LA-7 apart when you went vertical. Someone else got the kill though.
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I was there. I am the one that blew your LA-7 apart when you went vertical. Someone else got the kill though.
Oh? So is that a yes for the 2v2 then? :rofl
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Oh? So is that a yes for the 2v2 then? :rofl
When you both repent I will duel you and Kruel 2v1 or 2v2 any time you like.
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I will be out if fuel is pilot preference and I'm willing to bet you wont find many takers if you think that will fly.
Same with me. In a duel there is really no reason to take more than 25% fuel if the intent is to fight and not try to run the other guy out of fuel.
ack-ack
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Same with me. In a duel there is really no reason to take more than 25% fuel if the intent is to fight and not try to run the other guy out of fuel.
ack-ack
.
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Ahem:
If you're reevaluating the rules right after you lost, it would appear you're reevaluating the rules because our pickup squad beat your squad.
We aren't changing anything, There are plenty of people who want to fight, especially now. It saddens me that such a non factor would keep you from participating again. I was expecting you to work on your 2v2 only to try and redeem yourselves. It's what I would've done .
This sounded so promising:
The format didn't really matter folks. What mattered is two ship tactics. I encourage everyone to spend some time trying it. It's different but generally the winner will be the guy who gets guns on after the merge at any angle. They flew well.
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HOing is a lot different in duels than it is in the MA since in duels more often than not you will consistanly meet face to face. In the MA there are too many variables and its actually a lot easier to avoid.
I could add quotes stating that HOs in the MA are hard to avoid because you may be in a furball and not see the attempt until too late....but if the above is the case then they should be OUTLAWED in the annual dueling ladder. The reason they are not, I suspect, is because it would be difficult to enforce given the wide disparity of opinion concerning what actually constitutes a "HO" shot. It also is a valid shot, but I digress. If it's allowed in the dueling ladders, it should be allowed in these events as well.
Every pilot is responsible for his or her own skin. If a pilot dies by a HO, blaming the other pilot is pointless...the person "dead" made a mistake.
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Ahem:
We aren't changing anything, There are plenty of people who want to fight, especially now. It saddens me that such a non factor would keep you from participating again. I was expecting you to work on your 2v2 only to try and redeem yourselves. It's what I would've done .
This sounded so promising:
For that fight I meant it. Moving forward, it's up to the community. Not you or I
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I kinda thought the first fight you guys had taken 50% in hopes of running us out of gas. lol
Out of curiosity, what were your fuel loadouts?
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Same with me. In a duel there is really no reason to take more than 25% fuel if the intent is to fight and not try to run the other guy out of fuel.
ack-ack
And here we have de facto "personal preference" enforcement, where you are subjecting what you deem as necessary, due to your style of flight, on another, regardless of their style of flight.
You see, you could load 50% fuel if you feel that we're going to try to outlast you, but you would complain that you're not as maneuverable as someone with 25% fuel. So, logically then, we would choose perhaps 50% fuel for most planes, but then people would complain they couldn't turn them as well as they could with 25% and that they're at a disadvantage, even though the other guy is identical.
Therefore, we implemented pilot's discretion. Nothing more, nothing less.
That being said, the reason why we didn't use a flat 25% or 50% value was because of flight time. Although rare, some fights truly last 10-15 minutes, so we didn't want fuel being an issue or cause of a loss. Changeup actually ran out of fuel in an LA-7 fight, and we came close, even though he was actually engaged the entire time.
Now, with that, perhaps the most neutral approach is to use a fuel loadout that allows for X number of minutes (the smallest fuel loadout that allows for a set flight time).
This, however, brings back up having to review every film and every fuel loadout... and for what? In the end, it's all solved by pilot's discretion.
Setting a time limit would be far more effective, though judging who won or lost if the time ran over would require some solving.
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And here we have de facto "personal preference" enforcement, where you are subjecting what you deem as necessary, due to your style of flight, on another, regardless of their style of flight.
You see, you could load 50% fuel if you feel that we're going to try to outlast you, but you would complain that you're not as maneuverable as someone with 25% fuel. So, logically then, we would choose perhaps 50% fuel for most planes, but then people would complain they couldn't turn them as well as they could with 25% and that they're at a disadvantage, even though the other guy is identical.
Therefore, we implemented pilot's discretion. Nothing more, nothing less.
That being said, the reason why we didn't use a flat 25% or 50% value was because of flight time. Although rare, some fights truly last 10-15 minutes, so we didn't want fuel being an issue or cause of a loss. Changeup actually ran out of fuel in an LA-7 fight, and we came close, even though he was actually engaged the entire time.
Now, with that, perhaps the most neutral approach is to use a fuel loadout that allows for X number of minutes (the smallest fuel loadout that allows for a set flight time).
This, however, brings back up having to review every film and every fuel loadout... and for what? In the end, it's all solved by pilot's discretion.
Setting a time limit would be far more effective, though judging who won or lost if the time ran over would require some solving.
Why not have the side picking the plane also pick the fuel load? Or did I miss the reason for that somewhere else?
If the time runs out it is a tie.
Planes like the LA should perhaps be launched at 50% since they have such a small fuel capacity.
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I kinda thought the first fight you guys had taken 50% in hopes of running us out of gas. lol
Out of curiosity, what were your fuel loadouts?
Whatever the smallest loadout was that would allow for 15 minutes of dogfighting. One minute on the runway, three to climbout, and roughly 10-11 to fight. It was always either 25-or 50%.
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Whatever the smallest loadout was that would allow for 15 minutes of dogfighting. One minute on the runway, three to climbout, and roughly 10-11 to fight. It was always either 25-or 50%.
Then you used 50. Flight time in an LA7 in the DA at 25% is 11 - 12 and they did run me out of fuel
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For that fight I meant it. Moving forward, it's up to the community. Not you or I
I didn't see the community setting this up, I guess you speak for everyone now, it IS up to the participants, we issued the challenge to you and said we would be doing more of these.
Fuel loading and ammo dumping are tactical decisions. As long as both parties are aware and agree there's not much more to discuss.
Had you won I highly doubt we would be having this discussion, as a matter of fact I don't think you mentioned the community in the 5v5, funny.
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I didn't see the community setting this up, I guess you speak for everyone now, it IS up to the participants, we issued the challenge to you and said we would be doing more of these.
Fuel loading and ammo dumping are tactical decisions. As long as both parties are aware and agree there's not much more to discuss.
Had you won I highly doubt we would be having this discussion, as a matter of fact I don't think you mentioned the community in the 5v5, funny.
As I said, feel free to solicit your challenges. I'm quite certain you'll be flying against each other. If that is a "win" for you and your rules, congrats.
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Then you used 50. Flight time in an LA7 in the DA at 25% is 11 - 12 and they did run me out of fuel
Sounds like you had the same misfortune that Fulcrum had in the 5v5, epic. Triton didn't run out.
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Planes like the LA maybe should be at 50% since they have such a small fuel capacity.
Oh that's CRAZY talk, Vraciu! No one would be dumb enough....to.....ahh...run out of fuel during a....squad or 2v2 duel.... in a.... LA7?
:huh
<FLASHBACK TO ONE WEEK AGO>
Skyyr - "Let's take 50% this first round....this 5v5 in these LA7s could last a while."
Fulcrum - "I'm taking 25%. I don't want to lose the manuverability."
<~10 minutes later>
Fulcrum - "Kruel! Hang on up there. We got the last one 2v1! I'm below you and will climb up to help!"
*sputter sputter ping! <dead>*
:uhoh
:bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
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Sounds like you had the same misfortune that Fulcrum had in the 5v5, epic. Triton didn't run out.
Yep. Good luck fellers, lol
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As I said, feel free to solicit your challenges. I'm quite certain you'll be flying against each other. If that is a "win" for you and your rules, congrats.
Why did you agree to them? They were OUR(yours as much as mine) rules because you agreed. It's simple, really.
Now it's about the format.
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Sounds like you had the same misfortune that Fulcrum had in the 5v5, epic. Triton didn't run out.
We had the same fuel loadout. I wasn't far behind.
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And here we have de facto "personal preference" enforcement, where you are subjecting what you deem as necessary, due to your style of flight, on another, regardless of their style of flight.
I guess this is where you and me disagree on the point of a duel. To me a duel is about fighting, not 'extending' and hoping the other guy runs out of fuel before I do. As such, I see no reason to take more than 25% fuel in a duel which is far more enough fuel for a fight.
ack-ack
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You see, you could load 50% fuel if you feel that we're going to try to outlast you, but you would complain that you're not as maneuverable as someone with 25% fuel. So, logically then, we would choose perhaps 50% fuel for most planes, but then people would complain they couldn't turn them as well as they could with 25% and that they're at a disadvantage, even though the other guy is identical.
[/quote]I don't see the problem, if both sides agree to 25, 50, 75, 100 fuel then fuel load is an excuse that is not valid....un less someone takes the wrong load out.....which is easy to notice in films.
If someone uses fuel as an excuse in a set fuel load duel....then nobody is going to want to duel that person, and the community will flame him on the boards and 200.
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I guess this is where you and me disagree on the point of a duel. To me a duel is about fighting, not 'extending' and hoping the other guy runs out of fuel before I do. As such, I see no reason to take more than 25% fuel in a duel which is far more enough fuel for a fight.
ack-ack
There wasn't any extending in this. Much more time was spent making sure 6s were cleared before a kill was achieved. Remember it was a 2v2 not a 1v1.
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Sadly, as was called previously, all of these arbitrary rules simply boil down to excuses. For whatever reason, an overwhelming majority here aren't happy with truly neutral or fair play, they want rules that suit their style of play, and they want those rules enforced on everyone else.
This format is set up to have a neutral playing field. Of course, there are inherent problems with every format, and we are still revising the rules to be as neutral as possible. If anyone can logically, and coherently, point out a flaw in the current format that gives an advantage to one side and not another, then we will honestly and genuinely evaluate it and address it, if at all possible.
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Oh that's CRAZY talk, Vraciu! No one would be dumb enough....to.....ahh...run out of fuel during a....squad or 2v2 duel.... in a.... LA7?
:huh
<FLASHBACK TO ONE WEEK AGO>
Skyyr - "Let's take 50% this first round....this 5v5 in these LA7s could last a while."
Fulcrum - "I'm taking 25%. I don't want to lose the manuverability."
<~10 minutes later>
Fulcrum - "Kruel! Hang on up there. We got the last one 2v1! I'm below you and will climb up to help!"
*sputter sputter ping! <dead>*
:uhoh
:bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
:rofl
Good one! Truly funny. :)
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While I am trying to keep it light, Triton....my post was meant to underline the point Kruel is making.
I ran out of fuel because of a decision I made. No one held a gun to my head. I did not complain, nor did I cry to the skies "THE MUPPETS RAN ME OUT OF FUEL THE DIRTY B@STAGES!! CHEATERS!!!" afterwards. My choice, my mistake. Period. The same would have been the case if I had shot off all but a 50 rounds and then ran out of ammo.
Am I inclined to agree the limits should be set? Yep...if only to keep the after action arguements down. But do I see Skyyr and Kruel's points, and the larger issue from a community perspective....ABSOLUTELY. But I highly doubt those issues can be resolved by a 2v2 match league so I lean to just setting the limits. I'm a realist.
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Sadly, as was called previously, all of these arbitrary rules simply boil down to excuses. For whatever reason, an overwhelming majority here aren't happy with truly neutral or fair play, they want rules that suit their style of play, and they want those rules enforced on everyone else.
This format is set up to have a neutral playing field. Of course, there are inherent problems with every format, and we are still revising the rules to be as neutral as possible. If anyone can logically, and coherently, point out a flaw in the current format that gives an advantage to one side and not another, then we will honestly and genuinely evaluate it and address it, if at all possible.
That would best be served in a separate thread for a rules discussion
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I don't see the problem, if both sides agree to 25, 50, 75, 100 fuel then fuel load is an excuse that is not valid....un less someone takes the wrong load out.....which is easy to notice in films.
If someone uses fuel as an excuse in a set fuel load duel....then nobody is going to want to duel that person, and the community will flame him on the boards and 200.
The problem isn't a problem that we (The Damned) have; rather, we were allowing the other team the option of loading less fuel, should they opt to go to a turn fight and want the additional maneuverability.
While we try not to initiate angles fights, we acknowledge that many players prefer them, and are accustomed to dueling with 25% fuel; therefore, we were not going to "penalize" those players by forcing them to load 50% or more fuel.
We are truly interested in a format that allows every pilot to fly to their own advantages, not in what suits us best. This is why we didn't have a preset fuel amount - load what you think you'll need.
There was no running or extending in these fights either. In fact, there was only one set of fights where fuel was an issue (the first). All other fights were over within a few minutes.
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The problem isn't a problem that we (The Damned) have; rather, we were allowing the other team the option of loading less fuel, should they opt to go to a turn fight and wanted the additional maneuverability.
While we try not to initiate angles fights, we acknowledge that many players prefer them, and are accustomed to dueling with 25% fuel; therefore, we were not going to "penalize" those players by forcing them to load 50% or more fuel.
We are truly interested in a format that allows every pilot to fly to their own advantages, not in what suits us best. This is why we didn't have a preset fuel amount - load what you think you'll need.
There was no running or extending in these fights either. In fact, there was only one set of fights where fuel was an issue (the first). All other fights were over within a few minutes.
Lmao...no one is buying what you're sellin....allowing more maneuverability, lol
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Lmao...no one is buying what you're sellin....allowing more maneuverability, lol
So fuel quantities don't affect maneuverability? I'm bookmarking this quote. :rofl
You do realize that in every fight but the LA-7 fight, we loaded 25% fuel, right (at least to the best that I remember)?
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I guess this is where you and me disagree on the point of a duel. To me a duel is about fighting, not 'extending' and hoping the other guy runs out of fuel before I do. As such, I see no reason to take more than 25% fuel in a duel which is far more enough fuel for a fight.
ack-ack
No one tried to run anyone out of fuel during the 5v5 last week. It was constant engagement. But multi-ship engagements can take more time than a 1v1 duel (as I found out the hard way) it's a very different beast from a 1v1.
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I guess this is where you and me disagree on the point of a duel. To me a duel is about fighting, not 'extending' and hoping the other guy runs out of fuel before I do. As such, I see no reason to take more than 25% fuel in a duel which is far more enough fuel for a fight.
ack-ack
There was no extending in these fights. Most fights were over within 4 minutes. The fact of the matter is that we loaded 25% in all but one fight, to the best of my recollection. We have the films and can post them.
25% in an LA-7 might be enough for a 1v1, maybe, but it's very questionable once you introduce multiples vs multiples. It's barely 11-12 minutes.
Obviously, you have the fear of someone fighting you in this format "extending on you," without realizing that a) that you'd be both faster and more maneuverable than them and b) the extending aircraft would effectively put themselves at a disadvantage in doing so.
That being said, perhaps a time limit does need to be implemented. This solves both the case of those who extend and refuse to fight, as well as establishing a fuel standard.
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So fuel quantities don't affect maneuverability? I'm bookmarking this quote. :rofl
You do realize that in every fight but the LA-7 fight, we loaded 25% fuel, right (at least to the best that I remember)?
That you want to allow people the choice of increasing their maneuverability lol. Book that quote
You didn't remember on the prior page, lol. Sorry if I don't trust your memory, lol
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That you want to allow people the choice of increasing their maneuverability lol. Book that quote
So please, pray tell, aside from your first LA-7 duel, at what point would ANY fuel capacity have mattered in your fights? :rofl
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If the fuel load is the same and mandated, that's a level playing field. This is fact.
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Lmao...no one is buying what you're sellin....allowing more maneuverability, lol
If fuel doesn't matter except for running out of it....why not just load 100% next time? That way you won't have to worry about it.
:huh
I'm trying to follow the illogical twists and turns of your arguement and counter-arguement, but.....
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If fuel doesn't matter except for running out of it....why not just load 100% next time? That way you won't have to worry about it.
:huh
I'm trying to follow the illogical twists and turns of your arguement and counter-arguement, but.....
Let's just mandate 100% and we can have some marathon extensions. :aok
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So please, pray tell, aside from your first LA-7 duel, at what point would ANY fuel capacity have mattered in your fights? :rofl
It's not about me, lol. Just see if you can put YOUR event together Skyyr. If everyone that flies in it agrees, I'll be in, lmao!
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My stick is bigger than yours.
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My stick is bigger than yours.
You have no stick.
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I forget that not everyone remembers high school English mechanics.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
In a duel there is really no reason to take more than 25% fuel if the intent is to fight and not try to run the other guy out of fuel.
+1
NO OTHER REASON!
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You have no stick.
You're correct, but I do have a pipe. :noid
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Let's just mandate 100% and we can have some marathon extensions. :aok
Are you implying your losses yesterday were due to extensions and/or running out of fuel?
I'm asking because you sure seem to be.
I'd say the film will answer that question, but you will just start going off about "The Damned's obession with Film."....
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All ya-all talk to damn much......that said, this should take a maximum of 10 seconds. "what do you want to fight in..." C202s 25% 2k...rgr rln.
The fight should start even and then have fun, if someone cheats they are just a pissant
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YOUR event
Damn straight. You're welcome to a rematch. You can even load 75% fuel - we won't, but you're welcome to. :rofl
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Pilot 1: Hey Pilot 2 let's duel because (insert reason here)
Pilot 2: Sure!
Pilot 1: Let's make some rules that work for the both of us.
Pilot 2: mmmkay
Pilot 1: OK first, no HO ing at all, I realize that even though I do not have a shot on you while getting roped, my nose is within the 180 degrees of your field of view, so it's a cheap HO in my book.
Pilot 2: uhhh, okay.
Pilot 1: Second, you cannot go above 200 mph, must fly with your flaps down and cannot leave 500 yards range.
Pilot 2: Dude, I'm an E Fighter, your rules make it easier to turn fight.
Pilot 1: I know! :)
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Pilot 1: Hey Pilot 2 let's duel because (insert reason here)
Pilot 2: Sure!
Pilot 1: Let's make some rules that work for the both of us.
Pilot 2: mmmkay
Pilot 1: OK first, no HO ing at all, I realize that even though I do not have a shot on you while getting roped, my nose is within the 180 degrees of your field of view, so it's a cheap HO in my book.
Pilot 2: uhhh, okay.
Pilot 1: Second, you cannot go above 200 mph, must fly with your flaps down and cannot leave 500 yards range.
Pilot 2: Dude, I'm an E Fighter, your rules make it easier to turn fight.
Pilot 1: I know! :)
and this is why I get on here:
I would ASSume this was reference my post...let me slow down and say it again:
The fight should start even and then have fun, if someone cheats they are just a pissant
I am not telling anyone how to fly
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Damn straight. You're welcome to a rematch. You can even load 75% fuel - we won't, but you're welcome to. :rofl
Let's see how many takers YOUR event gets on your rules as they stand now. Go ahead and bookmark this quote. :rofl
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and this is why I get on here:
I would ASSume this was reference my post...let me slow down and say it again:
I am not telling anyone how to fly
Dodger, get out of this thread before you get tainted.
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to late
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and this is why I get on here:
I would ASSume this was reference my post...let me slow down and say it again:
I am not telling anyone how to fly
Not in reference to yours at all, I agree with what you stated 100%
I think these should be about choice, a duel is to find out who is better at that time.
Same plane, same alt, first pass is cold, the rest is up to you. How much more neutral can you get?.
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Real DAers and duelers don't argue about HOs because we don't ever do them even if we come "close" to it being a " front quartershot". Like I said it just takes away from the "skill" and "fun" aspect of a duel.
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Real DAers and duelers don't argue about HOs because we don't ever do them even if we come "close" to it being a " front quartershot". Like I said it just takes away from the "skill" and "fun" aspect of a duel.
That your OPINION , if you kill me, you win, doesn't matter how. Everyone has different opinions of what front quarter looks like, which means someone will use it as an excuse. It takes 2 to do it.
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This is the dumbest display of over-inflated ego on this forum in the last 24 hours. Thanks for the entertainment.
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Only for dweebs. It's deemed pretty obvious if the other person could make it around yet they choose to not go face first.
I've been dueling for like 8 years.
Only chumps go for the HO in desperation to get the kill
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... if you kill me, you win, doesn't matter how....
Clash of ideas. For some, "how" is the part that matters.
It ain't gonna change, although individual players certainly change sometimes.
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I can accept and respect the idea won't change, if others accept and respect that mine won't either, and round we go!
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I disagree. What is happening is no different that what has happened in the past...remember the famous AH vs. WB duel? Or maybe one of the multitudes of Blue Knights vs. AoM duels or any other squad vs. squad duel? There is nothing wrong with having little side activities like this, the only time it becomes a problem is if one or both sides start to exhibit some rather poor sportsmanship.
ack-ack
If that was how it went....like in the old days, then that would be fine and dandy, but it seems far too many players get their jollies yankin other peoples chains as we have seen in this thread. One guy makes a comment and the next things we are 12 pages in full of chest thumping.
Where is this good for the game?
Had we instead a 300 word AAR (like those guppy use to write on occasion) about a mission with fighter cover over bombers and defense that pushed back the attack with our hero the goon driver bellying in at the town at the last minute only to find out he brought supplies, not troops I think the following pages would have been more positive. Possible attracting attention of some new players saying "that looks like fun!"
Instead we get them looking in and saying..... "What a bunch of........" Well you fill in the rest.
EDIT.... I found one of CorkyJR's stories..... I hope he don't mind me posting it.
October 6, 1944. Covering Souless....kinda
October 6, 1944 Biak Island
The old Headhunter pilot, better known as CorkyJr, instinctively scanned the sky around him from the cockpit of his beaten and battered P38G Lightning. He didn't expect to run into any enemy planes, as this was just a quick flight from his old base at Nadzab to his new home at Biak where the 475th Fighter Group was stationed. All Corky could see were a few scattered clouds that dotted the sky above him and the water below him that looked like glass.
The roar of the twin Allison engines of his big fighter droned on in the background muffled by the enclosed cockpit as well as the flying helmet Corky wore. An oxygen mask dangled from one side of his helmet, unneeded at the 8000 feet he was flying. His goggles were pushed up on his head as he rubbed his eyes in an effort to stay alert. His Mae West seemed to be cutting into his neck and the chute pack he was sitting on added to the discomfort, as it felt as hard as a rock. Looking to his left and right, Corky could see the faded camouflage on the wings and tail booms of the P38. Spots of darker Olive Drab paint covered the patches where flak and bullet hits had scarred his Lightning. The faded and chipped green paint still showed on the tail and spinners, showing the colors of his old squadron the 80th Headhunters.
Corky had recently gotten the word that he was transferring over to the 475th. He wasn't quite sure why as the reputation the 475th had already been established as one of the premiere P38 outfits in the theater. The list of Aces was long with the 475th. Corky didn't where he'd fit with that caliber of pilots, as the scoreboard below the windscreen of his 38 was empty. If nothing else he could provide good bait so the other 475th pilots could get more kills. He could only assume that an old wingman of his from the 80th had either bribed or threatened the 475th CO to get him a slot with the "Satan's Angels".
A muffled bang brought Corky back to the present. Jerking his head around, he scanned the sky as the sound reminded him of the many times he's been hit by enemy shells. No N1K's or Zeros could be seen however. Corky turned his attention to his P38. Scanning the instrument panel he quickly noticed the oil pressure on his left engine dropping rapidly. Looking to his left he could see oil streaking back along the cowling of the big Allison engine. As his heart rate slowed and his hands stopped shaking, Corky went through the engine shut down procedure. This was old hat to Corky as he'd probably spent more time on one engine in his 38 then he had with both engines working. Trimming his bird for single engine flight, Corky watched as the big three-blade prop slowed and stopped, the blades feathered.
Spotting the island of Biak in the distance, Corky began his descent. Notifying the tower that he was coming in single engine, Corky was given the green light to land. It seemed important to get his 38 on the ground in one piece and to show his new squadron mates that he wasn't a complete disaster as a P38 pilot.
Cleared for a straight in approach, for once Corky did everything right. Dropping the flaps and kicking out the landing gear like a pro, he greased his landing in right past the threshold of the runway. It was the best landing Corky'd made in months.
Pulling off the runway, Corky was met by a jeep with a "Follow Me" sign on it. He swallowed hard and the knot in his stomach got a little tighter. In the 80th you parked it wherever you could find a place near the runway. It was clear the 475th was a bit more professional in their approach. Working the one good engine and the brakes, Corky followed the jeep down the flight line. Gleaming late model P38J-15s and L-1s were parked in separate revetments. Bright colors showed on the tails and spinners, signifying the three squadrons of the 475th Fighter Group. Red for the 431st, Yellow for the 432nd and Blue for the 433rd. The line of new 38s seemed to go on forever.
Corky could see an empty revetment in the distance. What looked like a 38 boneyard was between it and the rest of the revetments. It soon became apparent that this was where the jeep was leading Corky and his P38G. He wondered if this meant they were going to junk her and he'd finally get a new bird. He had mixed feelings about this as he'd been through a lot in his old G model. The Jeep pulled off and the driver pointed towards the revetment. Corky pulled in to the parking space and gunned his one good engine while standing on the brake for the left wheel, swinging the Lightning around so it faced out of the revetment. He then shut down the engine and popped the canopy top while rolling down the side windows. The quiet ticking of the engine as it cooled was mixed with the sounds of a busy airfield where crew chiefs were hard at work keeping the other P38s in top condition.
Unstrapping from the plane, Corky Stood up and stepped out onto the wing, pulling off his flying helmet and stretching his legs, hoping to get the blood circulating again. As he did so, he could see the jeep heading off towards what he assumed was the operations shack. At the same time a truck was headed towards him. As he watched, the truck careened into the revetment, nearly hitting his P38. A man in faded overalls and a beat up baseball cap, crawled out. He looked like he hadn't slept or shaved in a week and despite the distance, Corky could swear he smelled alcohol.
"You must be the new guy! Welcome to the 475th! The pilots would have been here to say hello but they're briefing for a mission. I'm your Crew Chief. The CO wants your bird ready to go as soon as possible and he suggests you help get it that way."
Corky shrugged. "So much for a new 38." He mumbled. He pulled the Mae West over his head and dropped it into the cockpit. He then reached in and pulled out a musette bag.
"Did you say something sir?"
"Forget it Sergeant. What can I do to help."
His Crew Chief smiled. "First thing we gotta do is get rid of that green paint. They've assigned you to the 432nd Squadron. I've got the yellow paint in the back of the truck."
Corky smiled, wondering if he should use that paint to add a yellow streak down his back as well. Then it occurred to him. Since he’d be in probably the slowest bird in the group, he'd no doubt be behind the rest of the 38s. If he were lucky they’d kill everything before he got there. He could then fly home safely and maybe, just maybe when it was all over he'd get home.
Climbing down of the 38, Corky stopped and looked up at the nose of his plane. No kill markings and no name. He'd have to do something about that. Walking over to the truck, he shook hands with his crew chief. He then reached into the musette bag and pulled out a bottle, giving it to the Sergeant, who looked back at Corky surprised.
"Hopefully you and I can get this bird back in action Chief. I have a feeling this is the start of something good"
Dan/Corky Jr.
(Don't say I didn't warn ya. Del will tell ya I'm a babbler when it comes to the history stuff and getting into it going back to our Nomad days as well as in the scenarios. Gotta play the part
The single engine 38 landing is Corky Smith's 80th FS P38G "CorkyJr". That's where the AH name came from
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The old days are gone sir. Stop living in the past! Nothing wrong with reminiscing, but you can't expect people who didn't play back then to behave like they did.
This story is more like RPG role play than combat sim.
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This is the dumbest display of over-inflated ego on this forum in the last 24 hours. Thanks for the entertainment.
:aok
:cheers:
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The old days are gone sir. Stop living in the past! Nothing wrong with reminiscing, but you can't expect people who didn't play back then to behave like they did.
This story is more like RPG role play than combat sim.
It was the first story in a bunch. He added a little imagination to the game and..... wait for it...... made it more fun.
Guess you "new guys" cant handle that.
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It was the first story in a bunch. He added a little imagination to the game and..... wait for it...... made it more fun.
Guess you "new guys" cant handle that.
That's not to say it isn't fun, just saying I've seen that in RPG games. If it's fun for you that's great.
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This is the dumbest display of over-inflated ego on this forum in the last 24 hours. Thanks for the entertainment.
That's a fact, and it looks like we get one of these about every 24 hours, from the same guys in the same squad over and over and over and over and over and over. Infamous, not famous, is that what you guys are going for? It sure looks like it.
Why would a squad in their right mind want anything do do with this horsecrap? Because of the way members are conducting themselves, this is not inclusive nor will it ever be anything more than it is now, an excuse for chest thumping and crap slinging. Congratulations, you have made the game so much better.
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Obviously, you have the fear of someone fighting you in this format "extending on you," without realizing that a) that you'd be both faster and more maneuverable than them and b) the extending aircraft would effectively put themselves at a disadvantage in doing so.
No, I don't. The reason why I always insist on agreeing to a fuel load before hand is for fairness reasons and to eliminate any potential whining of "he ran me out of fuel!" or "he had less fuel!".
ack-ack
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Maybe you guys should try Widewing's "Cage Match" format.
Each player takes off from the same base and as soon as wheels go up, players turn and fight within the perimeter of the airfield. Anyone that leaves the perimeter of the airfield during the match is disqualified. Nice way to use the stall fighting skills.
ack-ack
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Maybe you guys should try Widewing's "Cage Match" format.
Each player takes off from the same base and as soon as wheels go up, players turn and fight within the perimeter of the airfield. Anyone that leaves the perimeter of the airfield during the match is disqualified. Nice way to use the stall fighting skills.
ack-ack
Me likey! :aok
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The old days are gone sir. Stop living in the past! Nothing wrong with reminiscing, but you can't expect people who didn't play back then to behave like they did.
This story is more like RPG role play than combat sim.
That is what set AH aside from the others.... this is just turning into yet another pfft game....only difference with the attitude creeping in here and other places is the eye candy... perhaps with the new graphics and arcade attitude it will draw the crowd of all the dime a dozen games out there... ah well ... your $15 as they say... what a crock....
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Great fights followed by a civil thread discussing said fights and merits of. Just don't get better'n this. :aok :D :cheers:
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With all due respect, I'd have to say it is HTC's carefully modeled physics that keep it from being a mere "game". Real aerodynamics+realistic gunnery+realistic pilot limitations bring in enough complexity to set online dogfighting far above any other kind of mere "game". Before computers the strategies and tactics of ACM were something only an elite few got to practice. I'm hardly a "gamer" at all, I don't have a bunch of console or other PC game. I get bored with those quick when I try them. Yet AH has managed to hold my attention for years at a time... Main problem this game has right now IMO is that people don't know about it.
That is what set AH aside from the others.... this is just turning into yet another pfft game....only difference with the attitude creeping in here and other places is the eye candy... perhaps with the new graphics and arcade attitude it will draw the crowd of all the dime a dozen games out there... ah well ... your $15 as they say... what a crock....
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That's a fact, and it looks like we get one of these about every 24 hours, from the same guys in the same squad over and over and over and over and over and over. Infamous, not famous, is that what you guys are going for? It sure looks like it.
Why would a squad in their right mind want anything do do with this horsecrap? Because of the way members are conducting themselves, this is not inclusive nor will it ever be anything more than it is now, an excuse for chest thumping and crap slinging. Congratulations, you have made the game so much better.
Zoney I have to agree with your assessment of the situation just two more tools to shoot down in the MA
if this is some way of earning respect for their squad well it's not really working rather embarrassing I would say but continue on this is amusing.
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That's a fact, and it looks like we get one of these about every 24 hours, from the same guys in the same squad over and over and over and over and over and over. Infamous, not famous, is that what you guys are going for? It sure looks like it.
Why would a squad in their right mind want anything do do with this horsecrap? Because of the way members are conducting themselves, this is not inclusive nor will it ever be anything more than it is now, an excuse for chest thumping and crap slinging. Congratulations, you have made the game so much better.
An interesting series of comments, Zoney. Are you referring to both sides, AoM, or The Damned? I ask because I've seen at least two instances where you have posted on threads you do not appear to approve of but you are ambiguous as to whom you are directing the critism.
I'd like to point out that this thread, in addition to the 5v5 Squad thread, were both very respectfully conducted up until some in the peanut gallery posted...and even then managed to rally back to a good discussion a few times. I understand if you have issues with a few members of my squad, but these overly dramatic diatribes are only another form of "crap slinging" cloaked in rightious indignation. It may look like sainthood and good community service to you....but from our end it is simply more crap.
If you do not approve of these subjects the best course of action is to simply not participate...thus disassociating yourself and your squad from being a part of the "crap slinging".
Thanks for your input. :salute
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I must confess I didn't read every post. But I'm left with one important question.
Did the guys who flew against each other have fun? Seems like the participants enjoyed themselves and shared it here. Seperate the squad affiliations from the individuals
If they had fun who cares how they did it. I don't know the other two guys, but unless Changeup and Triton28 have completely lost the plot since I last had a chance to fly with them, I don't believe anyone would suggest they claim greatness in AH. I do recall they don't mind fighting and cartoon dying if there is fun involved.
Last I heard being an AH god and 75 cents might get you a can of soda.
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Maybe you guys should try Widewing's "Cage Match" format.
Each player takes off from the same base and as soon as wheels go up, players turn and fight within the perimeter of the airfield. Anyone that leaves the perimeter of the airfield during the match is disqualified. Nice way to use the stall fighting skills.
I haven't seen that come up in a while, completely forget about those. When TonyJoey was showing me some dueling tricks years ago when he first started playing really well, this is all we would do as I recall - take off from a different runway, and fight is on. Fighting in a cage or box like that is a lot of fun, and you get in a ton more practice time, as often on our duel maps, 90 percent of the time is spent flying to the merge when there is a huge skill deferential - 3 minutes of flying, a couple turns, poof dead, repeat. It takes time, you only get in about 10 at best in an hour. The Widewing method - you can get in 10 in about 15 minutes. They may not be the usual "norm" for duels, meeting at "x" altitude and merging, but as stated, a great way to quickly build some new skills and see some new things more quickly.
I for one would fly in a "combat box" or "cage match" league in a second, as again, the matches can be set up and be over really quickly.
So far as some saying the attitudes and comments here aren't good for the game - they've always been a part of the game. There have always been egos, fights between players and squads, in fact, if you go back far enough pre modern moderation, they were 10x more heated than they are now. I've said and continue to say this game attracts and keeps a certain type of player, and many of these players are very competitive ego driven types of people. A certain amount of banter, arguing, taunting, and the like is just par for the course in this environment. Trying to claim that "this will drive the gentle new potential customer away" is a circular argument IMO, as the new potential customers are in large measure much like the current and past members - attracted to a competitive environment with the egos and all the rest of it. The large swarms of nicey-nice new players that want to sit around holding hands and talk civilly 100 percent of the time, never have any animosity or arguments, and tell each other fruity after action reports after a tool shed mission are in the extreme minority from my observations over the years. And Guppy, that is in no way a shot across your bow, I always enjoyed your stories as they were about competition and combat. Glad to see you posting again, wondered where you've been just the other week, and good last post, I agree 100%.
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I must confess I didn't read every post. But I'm left with one important question.
Did the guys who flew against each other have fun? Seems like the participants enjoyed themselves and shared it here. Seperate the squad affiliations from the individuals
If they had fun who cares how they did it. I don't know the other two guys, but unless Changeup and Triton28 have completely lost the plot since I last had a chance to fly with them, I don't believe anyone would suggest they claim greatness in AH. I do recall they don't mind fighting and cartoon dying if there is fun involved.
Last I heard being an AH god and 75 cents might get you a can of soda.
You can get a can of soda for $.75 these days? :)
Spot on sir. Thank you.
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You can get a can of soda for $.75 these days? :)
Spot on sir. Thank you.
$.60 at work (so far). :)
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You can get a can of soda for $.75 these days? :)
25 cents were I work at :aok
ack-ack
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25 cents were I work at :aok
ack-ack
You work for Coca-Cola? :pray
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Maybe you guys should try Widewing's "Cage Match" format.
That is, of course, the way so many of us learned to duel in AW. You could switch to private duel mode and take off from the same base in opposite directions, extend to icon range then turn back to merge. All duels inevitably ended up on the deck within the confines of the field. I wish they'd add similar functionality to at least part of the AH DA.
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That is, of course, the way so many of us learned to duel in AW. You could switch to private duel mode and take off from the same base in opposite directions, extend to icon range then turn back to merge. All duels inevitably ended up on the deck within the confines of the field. I wish they'd add similar functionality to at least part of the AH DA.
Private custom arena.
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So we have been discussing the rules, as TC pointed out, it is a mixture of rules from different brackets so we may be able to address some of the fuel load out complaints.
Maybe when we duel Ratio and his wingman we can keep the rules as we have done, but add one more element:
A time limit (10-15 minutes?) after the merge. This would address concerns about "running" and running out of fuel. If the time limit is breached, the team with the most players still flying wins the round. If both teams have equal number of players up, its a draw and the plane choice rotates to the next team.
This allows people to adjust their fuel load out instead of having a set fuel load out that might not be optimal for different planes. This also addresses possible suspicion of cheating by loading less or more fuel than agreed upon based on the old rules. Which means no more purse fights over films.
5K Merge
Cold Pass, Anything goes after the merge
10? Minute Time Limit after 3/9 lines are crossed on the merge. (which can be verified by looking at your own film instead of asking someone else for theirs).
Fuel Load Out: Pilot Discretion
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A time limit (10-15 minutes?) after the merge. This would address concerns about "running" and running out of fuel. If the time limit is breached, the team with the most players still flying wins the round.
:rofl
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A time limit (10-15 minutes?) after the merge. This would address concerns about "running" and running out of fuel. If the time limit is breached, the team with the most players still flying wins the round. If both teams have equal number of players up, its a draw and the plane choice rotates to the next team.
:rolleyes:
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You work for Coca-Cola? :pray
Nope. Game companies like to keep their nerds happy so we're productive nerds, so a lot subsidize goodies like sodas and snacks.
ack-ack
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Dang, this started out as a pretty good thread. :aok Come back later and :huh
:bolt:
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:rofl
This addresses forcing players into Turn / Stall fights if they don't want to do it (which we don't in a multiple vs multiple environment, its proven to be pretty effective so far ;).
25% Fuel in the LA isn't the same as 25% fuel in the 109. If the concern is time, then a time limit can be imposed, but forcing players to fight someone else's fight isn't neutral. IMHO. The point of the duel is to find out who is the better team (regardless of flight styles) right?
Care to add anything positive?
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This addresses forcing players into Turn / Stall fights if they don't want to do it (which we don't in a multiple vs multiple environment, its proven to be pretty effective so far ;).
25% Fuel in the LA isn't the same as 25% fuel in the 109. If the concern is time, then a time limit can be imposed, but forcing players to fight someone else's fight isn't neutral. IMHO. The point of the duel is to find out who is the better team (regardless of flight styles) right?
Care to add anything positive?
Picking the same fuel load out doesn't force someone to fight a certain way, it just levels the playing field by making things equal for both players. Also, both sides don't have to agree to take 25% fuel, they are open to select any fuel load out they wish as long as both players use the same fuel load out. If both sides want to take 50% or more fuel, that's fine.
What you and Skyyr want does not equal the playing field, it's that simple.
ack-ack
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This addresses forcing players into Turn / Stall fights if they don't want to do it (which we don't in a multiple vs multiple environment, its proven to be pretty effective so far ;).
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl Oh man, you are SO funny. You'd be absolute comedy gold if you weren't saying this with a straight face.
25% Fuel in the LA isn't the same as 25% fuel in the 109. If the concern is time, then a time limit can be imposed, but forcing players to fight someone else's fight isn't neutral. IMHO. The point of the duel is to find out who is the better team (regardless of flight styles) right?
Care to add anything positive?
Come off it Kruel. Let's at least be honest shall we. Your 'tactical fuel load' is simply another advantage you're trying to secure so you can ensure your life is full of 'win'. A perfect escape clause if you find yourself outmatched. You realize you can't defeat the Muppets et al 'kills through skills' faction dueling 1 on 1. Then (perhaps by accident) you've discovered 2 vs 2 is to your advantage since you have more experience at that and the faction mentioned doesn't really much bother with it (or is perhaps just starting too since it seems they can actually get a fight this way).
I really don't know why you're misrepresenting this point. You've already made it clear you only care about results regardless of method and that you believe in securing every advantage possible before every engagement. Why start misrepresenting your agenda now?
AH tradition is any form of competition is specified and identical fuel load. Good luck trying to change that. I think you're going to find no one will agree to waste time with you and in the meantime a new 2 v 2 dueling league might actually commence.
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:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl Oh man, you are SO funny. You'd be absolute comedy gold if you weren't saying this with a straight face.
Come off it Kruel. Let's at least be honest shall we. Your 'tactical fuel load' is simply another advantage you're trying to secure so you can ensure your life is full of 'win'. A perfect escape clause if you find yourself outmatched. You realize you can't defeat the Muppets et al 'kills through skills' faction dueling 1 on 1. Then (perhaps by accident) you've discovered 2 vs 2 is to your advantage since you have more experience at that and the faction mentioned doesn't really much bother with it (or is perhaps just starting too since it seems they can actually get a fight this way).
I really don't know why you're misrepresenting this point. You've already made it clear you only care about results regardless of method and that you believe in securing every advantage possible before every engagement. Why start misrepresenting your agenda now?
AH tradition is any form of competition is specified and identical fuel load. Good luck trying to change that. I think you're going to find no one will agree to waste time with you and in the meantime a new 2 v 2 dueling league might actually commence.
Oh come on 'Shida. There is a "New Sheriff In Town" didn't you get the memo? Get with the program slacker. /sarcasm
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Oh come on 'Shida. There is a "New Sheriff In Town" didn't you get the memo? Get with the program slacker. /sarcasm
Oh man, I haven't laughed so hard in ages. Tactical fuel load :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl (http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/8103/crazy5.gif) ouch, I think I broke something (http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/8443/crazy6.gif)
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A time limit? Really? I'd have to dig out my super secret junior decoder/timer connected to my Chinese built AH sun blinder hack to flash in my eyes to let me know when the fight was over. Not just anyone can afford the box of cracker jacks that comes in.
Seriously, even the I-16 with probably the shortest legs in the planeset at 25% internal has enough fuel to last through nearly any one on one. If you can't kill your opponent(s) before burning through a quarter tank of fuel you probably don't deserve to win.
That said the only way to police fuel settings other than allowing for pilot choice is to review film and we all know how providing film goes sometimes.
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I'd have to dig out my super secret junior decoder/timer
(http://i.imgur.com/eHa25zS.gif)
(http://pragmaticobotsunite.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/ralphie_ovaltine-284x300.jpg)
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If you can't kill your opponent(s) before burning through a quarter tank of fuel you probably don't deserve to win..
Guess that settles it for ChangeUp then. If the proposed rules were in place maybe he wouldn't have had that problem. Its 2v2, its going to last longer than a 1v1. Specially if you don't fly it like its a 1v1 / 1v1 if you use Wingman Tactics you give up a shot to clear your wingman.
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Kruel is trolling, common sense is taking the same load out for everyone....for fairness/equal playing field.
If he isn't trolling, well then that explains a lot.
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Kruel is DUCKING/HEDGING, common sense is taking the same load out for everyone....for fairness/equal playing field.
If he isn't DUCKING/HEDGING, well then that explains a lot.
FIFY. <S>
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Kruel is trolling, common sense is taking the same load out for everyone....for fairness/equal playing field.
If he isn't trolling, well then that explains a lot.
No sir, I am not. People seem to be trying to apply the same rules from a 1v1 to a 2v2..it doesn't work.
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No sir, I am not. People seem to be trying to apply the same rules from a 1v1 to a 2v2..it doesn't work.
:noid
:rofl
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No sir, I am not. People seem to be trying to apply the same rules from a 1v1 to a 2v2..it doesn't work.
If all planes took 50% fuel....would the fight be fair?
-
For most planes in that is plenty of fuel. But our suggestion addresses the following question:..how do you guarantee that no one takes less? If they do, then it becomes a fight for the films, which takes away from the focus of the competition. We could have just as easily said 50% Fuel, I realize that..but could I guarantee that they would abide by the rules?....No.
So if you set a time limit, then you don't have to worry about how much fuel someone else loaded. There can never be the question of "I wonder if they loaded less than the agreed amount of fuel". or worse the allegation that cheating occurred. Nothing would be open to "interpretation". A perfect example of this problem is the HO. is it a HO, is it a Front Quarter ? Ive shot the TOP of people's wings and they call HO. In a 2v2 Competition, people are going to whine/complain and call for films...
These sets of rules minimizes the "Open to Interpretation" factor while ensuring that everyone has the same options when going into the fight.
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25% is plenty of fuel for a 2v2. In 10 matches, Kruel and Skyyr only took 50% like once, so it can be said that 90% of the time, 25% is plenty.
It is decided.
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25% is plenty of fuel for a 2v2. In 10 matches, Kruel and Skyyr only took 50% like once, so it can be said that 90% of the time, 25% is plenty.
It is decided.
You see, it isn't decided, if there had been less of a gap in pilot ability, the fights might have taken longer. We are guessing we are going to fight much better wing men and are anticipating that the fights *will*(hopefully) take longer. So, a healthy discussion about the rules is still very much in order.
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You've already made such a mess of this fight that I doubt you will get many more 2v2 matches.
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You see, it isn't decided, if there had been less of a gap in pilot ability, the fights might have taken longer. We are guessing we are going to fight much better wing men and are anticipating that the fights *will*(hopefully) take longer. So, a healthy discussion about the rules is still very much in order.
Pilot ability? Surely you jest. :rofl
You guys used better wingman tactics than Changeup and I did. Don't kid yourself about the stick and rudder dude.
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You ain't got no pancake mix.....
I have 3 legitimate 2v2 duels now with Krupinski as my wingman....all fights were with same fuel load outs
Nothing came from it about o he said she said BS...
Same fuel loads = fair fight ....
If your trying to remove all doubt about your skill level, you need to win more then 1 fight. Your not the first people to try to get a 2v2 going. Krup and I were on 200 daily for a while trying to get fights.
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Pilot ability? Surely you jest. :rofl
You guys used better wingman tactics than Changeup and I did. Don't kid yourself about the stick and rudder dude.
Getting an E Advantage 1 turn into the merge surely has nothing to do with pilot ability..doing it 9 times out of 10 doesn't either. That's for another discussion though, aren't we discussing 2v2 Rules?
-
:rofl
It is good that you two, Kruel and Skyyr, are attempting to immerse yourselves into the game and the boards.
BUT one HUGE problem, you'll are going about it in the COMPLETELY wrong manner. Neither of you are bad pilots
but your ego's are a little large for a couple of mediocre pilots.
You come making these "rules" that really don't make much sense. The way MANY people go about 1 v 1's are simple.
Same fuel, same aircraft, co-alt merge, cold merge, no HO's or Front-Quarter Shots (Skyyr). As for the ammo dumping rule is it
really necessary to make a rule for this? Most people do 25% fuel, deck merge. . .Challenger gets first plane choice
best of 5. If they ammo dump, good for them :lol I don't do it because I really don't care.
You won the 2v2, good for the both of you. It doesn't make both of you better pilots but instead better flight partners
than changeup and Triton. I for one have never seen Triton and Changeup winging in the MA but maybe I don't pay enough
attention. Now if you THINK (edit) you are able to beat two people who have the same skill level as Changeup and Triton AND the same
team chemistry as yourself and Skyyr then you are in for a rude awakening. You have to learn how to fly with certain people.
I can fly with Bone, TripWire, Flyman & Cheech and be absolutely fine against most. Why? Because I am so used to their
flying styles and how they fly in furballs that it is almost like second nature to me. I mean communication is important
but I think chemistry is most important which is why The Few and Loose Deuce were so good in SDL. They were great at
communications and had a good amount of time flying together so their team chemistry was relatively high.
This is just my .02 cents. Chill out, your heads are starting to look like blimps.
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No sir, I am not. People seem to be trying to apply the same rules from a 1v1 to a 2v2..it doesn't work.
Yes, the same duel rules agreed by players in a 1v1 will also work in a 2v2 fight, 5v5 fight, and so on. Could you please explain how each player taking up the same amount of fuel won't work in a 2v2 duel?
ack-ack
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Yes, the same duel rules agreed by players in a 1v1 will also work in a 2v2 fight, 5v5 fight, and so on. Could you please explain how each player taking up the same amount of fuel won't work in a 2v2 duel?
ack-ack
He automatically thinks someone is going to cheat which means
A. He is thinking about doing it himself.
or
B. Is going to use it as an excuse when he loses
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:rofl
...
Neither of you are bad pilots
but your ego's are a little large for a couple of mediocre pilots.
...
Now if you THINK (edit) you are able to beat two people who have the same skill level as Changeup and Triton AND the same
team chemistry as yourself and Skyyr then you are in for a rude awakening. You have to learn how to fly with certain people.
I can fly with Bone, TripWire, Flyman & Cheech and be absolutely fine against most. Why? Because I am so used to their
flying styles and how they fly in furballs that it is almost like second nature to me. I mean communication is important
but I think chemistry is most important which is why The Few and Loose Deuce were so good in SDL. They were great at
communications and had a good amount of time flying together so their team chemistry was relatively high.
This is just my .02 cents. Chill out, your heads are starting to look like blimps.
Just like Fess and I were developing.
He is a genius at thinking through a fight and he knows how to direct a wingman. Over time, despite my deficiencies, I was beginning to do what I knew I should--because he hammered me so many times. "NEVER SPLIT-S!!" "WHY DIDN'T YOU SPLIT-S THERE???!!" I know I drove him crazy, but he is the best leader/wingman I have ever flown with, and the guy I with which I have had the most success.
I would walk through walls for him, even after he has ripped me a new one.
Fess is the only thing/person I miss about THE DAMNED. Not being able to fly with him hurts me deeply. Make fun as you wish. He was harsh...perhaps strict...but fair, compassionate. Great to fly with. Can think a fight like nobody else. Just a good guy all around. Made this game enjoyable...
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He automatically thinks someone is going to cheat which means
A. He is thinking about doing it himself.
or
B. Is going to use it as an excuse when he loses
:rofl
-
For most planes in that is plenty of fuel. But our suggestion addresses the following question:..how do you guarantee that no one takes less? If they do, then it becomes a fight for the films, which takes away from the focus of the competition. We could have just as easily said 50% Fuel, I realize that..but could I guarantee that they would abide by the rules?....No.
You just answered your own question. If there is some doubt at the end of the duel, the films will resolve the issue. It does not mean having the players agree to a fuel load before the fight doesn't work in a 2v2 setting.
ack-ack
-
He automatically thinks someone is going to cheat which means
A. He is thinking about doing it himself.
or
B. Is going to use it as an excuse when he loses
On point A.Why would I try to make a rule to make it harder to cheat if i thought about cheating. If there is anything I do care about in this game is the competition..its one of the main reasons I play it. I play because I want to get better everyday and have fun with my squadmates, its pretty dumb and immature to make that assumption.
On point B. The rule I am also suggesting would make complaining about fuel load outs null and void. Since you can take what you want. The choice and consequences of it are yours alone. The same could be said if a set fuel load out was agreed to but I point to the whole "fighting over films" based on assumptions or doubts about 'previously agreed to' fuel loads. IMO the rules should be so transparent and difficult to misinterpret or otherwise use as crutch to take away from the competition. If a 2v2 result becomes about fighting for films it degrades the fun that was had.
I am off to bed!
-
Sigh
-
I believe a 5k merge, 8k alt cap is in order.. the recipe for anti pick dueling. :cheers:
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The whine your going to hear after a fight your rule is...."oh you guys only won because we decided this instead of this"
Even if that is part of the fight people are still going to whine about it, you make the fuel load the same for everyone then the person who doesn't use the correct fuel load will not be having many people wanting to DA them...
Prime Example...Surfinn...notice the name change.
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You see, it isn't decided, if there had been less of a gap in pilot ability, the fights might have taken longer. We are guessing we are going to fight much better wing men and are anticipating that the fights *will*(hopefully) take longer.
Individual ability and tag team ability are two different things. In my experience two relatively inexperienced sticks can give a more experienced stick more difficult ACM problems to solve. I should of thought that was obvious to anyone who has completed their first month. Once the 'kills through skills' faction pick these co-ordinating skills up, and they will quickly, then where will you be? You'd better pray you can take 150% fuel.
If there is anything I do care about in this game is the competition..its one of the main reasons I play it.
I play because I want to get better everyday and have fun with my squadmates, its pretty dumb and immature to make that assumption.
Ideas about what constitutes competition clearly vary. You care about winning according to my observation and then gloating afterwards.
Perpetually refining one narrow skillset isn't going to make you better. An insight into the reliability of this statement is how you are trying to maintain a variable for your 2 vs 2 setup which favours your approach. If you really cared about wanting to get better and then competing on a higher level you wouldn't be so rigidly result and score-focussed and certainly so 'in your face' to this established community. You have now denied yourself the possibility to learn from others here because no one will help you or explain their technique to you and your own ego is an inherent obstacle to learning.
I can't imagine you turning at the bottom of a furball in a Spitfire to work on your stall fighting. By the way you've asserted your interaction some other AH player will now post a single vid on YouTube and dismiss you.
I warned you about the dangers of bombastically impressing yourselves on this community. Now you are marginalized. Already.
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No sir, I am not. People seem to be trying to apply the same rules from a 1v1 to a 2v2..it doesn't work.
Yeah, it worked long before you got here, it will work now, it will work when you're gone.
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Hello all,
I'm sorry to butt in, but I was reading this thread earlier tonight, and it wound up raising a number of questions.
Before I address those questions, however, allow me to provide some background: In preparation for reading this thread, I poured myself a beer, a locally brewed west-coast IPA, and selected a can of Salt and Vinegar flavored Pringles, which I find accompany a beer quite nicely. I have also found something salty and fried often helps me avoid nausia, which I anticipated of this thread, so I believed I had chosen well in preparation for reading this.
However, approximately half way through my beer and this thread, and exactly 13 Pringles into the can, I discovered, nestled between two of the chips, a shiny, near mint, 2013 Lincoln penny! Imagine my surprise upon discovering a penny in my Pringles! It didn't seem possible for it to be there -- a penny resting nicely between two nesting hyperbolic paraboloid potato chips. And yet, there was the gleaming profile of old Abe almost smirking at me from inside my snack can, as if to say "funny seeing me here, isn't it?"
Flabbergasted at the discovery, I hollered to my wife in the other room, "Honey, come here an check this out!", turning roughly 45-degrees and swinging my arm outward, in order to project my voice past the den door and into the front of the house. This motion resulted in hitting my pint glass with my forearm, causing it to wobble precariously, like some ale-filled top for what seemed like an eternity, until it finally came to rest, right side up, without spilling a drop. It seems the glass being only half full (I generally take an optimists view towards beer) and bottom heavy kept the glass from toppling over.
The serendipity of the event wasn't lost on me, for only moments before discovering the penny, I had considered finishing my beer and going for a refill -- I had several pages of this thread yet to read and was thinking I may need the extra fortitude to go on. But, for some reason, call it fate, I somehow resisted the urge to down the last half-pint of my beer in exasperation at the thread and take a break for a refill. Had the glass been full upon my discovery of the penny in my Pringles, my resulting gesture would surely have caused some significant spillage, wasting a fine IPA, potentially damaging one or more of my peripheral devices, and casting a further pall upon this thread.
As it was, this swirl of circumstances left my head spinning; to my left a paradoxical situation whereupon a full pint of beer would have been a bad thing, in front of me a grueling train-wreck of an AH forum thread, and in my right hand, a penny-marred can of salt and vinegar Pringles.
This leads me to my questions:
1) What if I had been engaged in one of these 2v2 duels while I suddenly discovered a penny in my Pringles? Would I be allowed to bow out due to a Force Majeure incident? Could I refight the duel if sufficient proof, such as film said incident, were provided? Shouldn't a Force Majeure rule exist for 2v2 dueling?
2) I imagine "the community" would agree that spilling of any beer, let alone a craft-brewed west coast IPA, constitutes Force Majeure as well, no? To avoid issues, such as using "I spilled my beer" as a post-duel excuse, should we agree in the rules that all beer glasses only be filled half-way, so as to make this a reliable and consistent factor for all participants?
3) More importantly, what should I do with the remaining Pringles in my can?! Remove the penny and eat them without worry? Discard them immediately? Take a photograph as evidence and return them to the market in order to request replacement?
4) What type of flavored Pringles (or any snack food, if not a fan of Pringles) do you think best accompanies fighting 2v2 duels? Do you think any particular beverage or snack food may provide an unfair advantage to a duelist? If so, should this be ruled upon?
5) What do you think I should do with the penny? Return it with the Pringles to the market? Put it in my change dish as I would any ordinary penny? Frame and mount it above my monitor to remind me to remain light-hearted about all gaming things such as Aces High?
I sincerely hope these questions don't lead to further strife and argument on the forums, but your input on these pressing issues would be very much appreciated.
<S>
Ryno
-
Just like Fess and I were developing.
He is a genius at thinking through a fight and he knows how to direct a wingman. Over time, despite my deficiencies, I was beginning to do what I knew I should--because he hammered me so many times. "NEVER SPLIT-S!!" "WHY DIDN'T YOU SPLIT-S THERE???!!" I know I drove him crazy, but he is the best leader/wingman I have ever flown with, and the guy I with which I have had the most success.
I would walk through walls for him, even after he has ripped me a new one.
Fess is the only thing/person I miss about THE DAMNED. Not being able to fly with him hurts me deeply. Make fun as you wish. He was harsh...perhaps strict...but fair, compassionate. Great to fly with. Can think a fight like nobody else. Just a good guy all around. Made this game enjoyable...
I think you very much overestimate my abilities but thanks for the sentiment :)
I flew with SPIKE in FA and with him flying was almost telepathic. We just got each other and it was a given where we would be and how we might react.
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I think you very much overestimate my abilities but thanks for the sentiment :)
I flew with SPIKE in FA and with him flying was almost telepathic. We just got each other and it was a given where we would be and how we might react.
That was certainly my goal. I think our last fight together showed some progress in that direction.
Definitely not overstating a thing. Your vision and awareness in a fight are exceptional. The accent is always good for a laugh, too. :lol :salute
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Prime Example...Surfinn...notice the name change.
Oh Lordy, lmao!!! Kruel, Surfinn. How cute. I wondered where that little whiner went.
-
Hello all,
I'm sorry to butt in, but I was reading this thread earlier tonight, and it wound up raising a number of questions.
Before I address those questions, however, allow me to provide some background: In preparation for reading this thread, I poured myself a beer, a locally brewed west-coast IPA, and selected a can of Salt and Vinegar flavored Pringles, which I find accompany a beer quite nicely. I have also found something salty and fried often helps me avoid nausia, which I anticipated of this thread, so I believed I had chosen well in preparation for reading this.
However, approximately half way through my beer and this thread, and exactly 13 Pringles into the can, I discovered, nestled between two of the chips, a shiny, near mint, 2013 Lincoln penny! Imagine my surprise upon discovering a penny in my Pringles! It didn't seem possible for it to be there -- a penny resting nicely between two nesting hyperbolic paraboloid potato chips. And yet, there was the gleaming profile of old Abe almost smirking at me from inside my snack can, as if to say "funny seeing me here, isn't it?"
Flabbergasted at the discovery, I hollered to my wife in the other room, "Honey, come here an check this out!", turning roughly 45-degrees and swinging my arm outward, in order to project my voice past the den door and into the front of the house. This motion resulted in hitting my pint glass with my forearm, causing it to wobble precariously, like some ale-filled top for what seemed like an eternity, until it finally came to rest, right side up, without spilling a drop. It seems the glass being only half full (I generally take an optimists view towards beer) and bottom heavy kept the glass from toppling over.
The serendipity of the event wasn't lost on me, for only moments before discovering the penny, I had considered finishing my beer and going for a refill -- I had several pages of this thread yet to read and was thinking I may need the extra fortitude to go on. But, for some reason, call it fate, I somehow resisted the urge to down the last half-pint of my beer in exasperation at the thread and take a break for a refill. Had the glass been full upon my discovery of the penny in my Pringles, my resulting gesture would surely have caused some significant spillage, wasting a fine IPA, potentially damaging one or more of my peripheral devices, and casting a further pall upon this thread.
As it was, this swirl of circumstances left my head spinning; to my left a paradoxical situation whereupon a full pint of beer would have been a bad thing, in front of me a grueling train-wreck of an AH forum thread, and in my right hand, a penny-marred can of salt and vinegar Pringles.
This leads me to my questions:
1) What if I had been engaged in one of these 2v2 duels while I suddenly discovered a penny in my Pringles? Would I be allowed to bow out due to a Force Majeure incident? Could I refight the duel if sufficient proof, such as film said incident, were provided? Shouldn't a Force Majeure rule exist for 2v2 dueling?
2) I imagine "the community" would agree that spilling of any beer, let alone a craft-brewed west coast IPA, constitutes Force Majeure as well, no? To avoid issues, such as using "I spilled my beer" as a post-duel excuse, should we agree in the rules that all beer glasses only be filled half-way, so as to make this a reliable and consistent factor for all participants?
3) More importantly, what should I do with the remaining Pringles in my can?! Remove the penny and eat them without worry? Discard them immediately? Take a photograph as evidence and return them to the market in order to request replacement?
4) What type of flavored Pringles (or any snack food, if not a fan of Pringles) do you think best accompanies fighting 2v2 duels? Do you think any particular beverage or snack food may provide an unfair advantage to a duelist? If so, should this be ruled upon?
5) What do you think I should do with the penny? Return it with the Pringles to the market? Put it in my change dish as I would any ordinary penny? Frame and mount it above my monitor to remind me to remain light-hearted about all gaming things such as Aces High?
I sincerely hope these questions don't lead to further strife and argument on the forums, but your input on these pressing issues would be very much appreciated.
<S>
Ryno
As a member of the Training Corps I believe it my duty to answer these queries as best I can for the sake of refreshments and duellists everywhere.
1)I believe such a rule should exist. Further more I believe real time streaming via webcam or alternative video capturing device should be mandatory for all 2 v 2 duels. In this way any potential Force Majeure incidents may be addressed promptly and with full HD clarity. This may sound a trivial matter, but I would urge those who do not see the dangers involved in ale wastage, or the potential for life changing discoveries within snack food, to think again. How would you feel if this happened to you? Try to put yourself in this position and visualise the emotional roller coaster that may ensue. This is no light circumstance to find oneself assailed by whilst passing the 15k mark in a 75% fuel energy fight.
2)Half filled beer is a must for 2 v 2 duelling. However, I find the suggestion that a pint glass be only half filled mildly offensive and in the interest of political stability I feel it is imperative that all pints be filled in entirety with the participants being forced, by fair ruling mind, to finish at least half of each pint before the merge.
3)The answer is simple. Remove the two adjacent pringles so as to avoid any contamination. Place these in a ziplock baggy as evidence. Now eat all but the last three pringles at your leisure. Finally, replace the penny on these last remaining pringles and take the afore mentioned photograph as evidence and then, only then, demand your replacement can.
4)Salt and vinegar and real ale are the only refreshments allowed in any 2v2 duel. Any 'light beer' will be confiscated and destroyed. Any snacks boasting the flavours 'BBQ', 'Cajun' or 'Paprika' will be considered doping and the participant(s) disqualified immediately with the possibility to face a 12 hour side switching ban.
5)The answer is simple and can be best described with this short, educational video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEN-iqMlB3Q
Thank you sir, for raising these pertinent and pressing questions.
S!
batfink
AHTC 2v2 Liaison Officer
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This thread is a perfect reason why nothing can ever get solved in the HOR or Congress. Dumb arguements over meanial subjects that can and should be easily agreed upon but one little stupid insecurity like fuel makes it a huge debacle.
It should be the same for both teams.
I don't really think it's ideally fair in duels if you don't bring enough gas and end up losing the fight because you didn't know the gas limits for that plane, while the enemy is using BnZ tactics after an E merge and are too afraid to engage without losing E states. You could play the dive and pull up game every fight, just bring 100% and run them out of fuel this way.
A time limit won't do anything other that allow that E merge fighter team to not engage until late in the fight. Once they get a kill they can stay high so the other team cant get a kill. Time runs out, team with most players win.
If both teams have the same fuel their is no excuse for running out if gas, no stay high and BnZ but there will be pressure to get a kill before gas runs out, and both sides will start evenly, both sides won't have to worry about picking too much or too less to be put at a disadvantage from the start.
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Getting an E Advantage 1 turn into the merge surely has nothing to do with pilot ability..doing it 9 times out of 10 doesn't either. That's for another discussion though, aren't we discussing 2v2 Rules?
:rofl
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Yeah, it worked long before you got here, it will work now, it will work when you're gone.
Likely so, assuming there is anyone left at that point of course. I'm starting to have my doubts about that one....but I digress.
This thread is a perfect reason why nothing can ever get solved in the HOR or Congress. Dumb arguements over meanial subjects that can and should be easily agreed upon but one little stupid insecurity like fuel makes it a huge debacle.
It should be the same for both teams.
I don't really think it's ideally fair in duels if you don't bring enough gas and end up losing the fight because you didn't know the gas limits for that plane, while the enemy is using BnZ tactics after an E merge and are too afraid to engage without losing E states. You could play the dive and pull up game every fight, just bring 100% and run them out of fuel this way.
A time limit won't do anything other that allow that E merge fighter team to not engage until late in the fight. Once they get a kill they can stay high so the other team cant get a kill. Time runs out, team with most players win.
If both teams have the same fuel their is no excuse for running out if gas, no stay high and BnZ but there will be pressure to get a kill before gas runs out, and both sides will start evenly, both sides won't have to worry about picking too much or too less to be put at a disadvantage from the start.
While I agree with your opinions for the most part, I have to point out the statement in red above did not occur during the 2v2....and both Kruel and Skyyr are considered "E-fighters". But yes, it is true some might employ the tactics you note. I think that would be a very small percentage of players, however, because the community would disregard the victories and heap scorn on the "victors". Peer pressure is a potent force, something which everyone who plays this game should already be well aware....
:rofl
It's interesting how you keep trying to turn this discussion about 2v2 into one about 1v1 "skillz", Triton. Since I refuse to believe you have ulterior motives for doing so....I am forced to conclude that you have a disregard for wingman tactics. So why did you choose to participate in a 2v2 in the first place?
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Quit wasting your time and looky here http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,365287.0.html
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Individual ability and tag team ability are two different things. In my experience two relatively inexperienced sticks can give a more experienced stick more difficult ACM problems to solve. I should of thought that was obvious to anyone who has completed their first month. Once the 'kills through skills' faction pick these co-ordinating skills up, and they will quickly, then where will you be? You'd better pray you can take 150% fuel.
So what you are saying is that 2 non experienced pilots would give 2 vets ACM problems? Aren't the 2 Vets supposed be better at ACM? Is that not what makes them vets? If that's your experience, that's great, does it mean the same should be true for anyone else? Everyone has different experiences, and opinions. That doesn't make them fact.
I want them to pick those skills up, the more people that do it the better, if your 'kills by skills'(lmao) faction loses then what will they excuse be then?
Ideas about what constitutes competition clearly vary. You care about winning according to my observation and then gloating afterwards.
IMHO, Competition means, like it does in any other sport, is to beat the other team. Who doesn't love to win? Normally I wouldn't shove it in someone's face, but considering the interactions we have had with ChangeUp and Triton in the past 3 months, it is deserved :) its very gratifying to dominate a troll in a game and watch them peck at the keyboard to save face. This wasn't a friendly duel, they know it. Had they beat us as bad as we beat them I'm sure they would be signing a different tune, but they sure would be singing louder.
Perpetually refining one narrow skillset isn't going to make you better. An insight into the reliability of this statement is how you are trying to maintain a variable for your 2 vs 2 setup which favours your approach. If you really cared about wanting to get better and then competing on a higher level you wouldn't be so rigidly result and score-focussed and certainly so 'in your face' to this established community. You have now denied yourself the possibility to learn from others here because no one will help you or explain their technique to you and your own ego is an inherent obstacle to learning.
This is all subjective, you don't know how I practice my flying, or if I am working on different aspects of flying. All you know that my preference is to energy fight not to fight some other way because "the community" does it that way. You can not say any of this with any sort of objectivity. This is all your opinion, which doesn't matter much to me. Now come up with some objective points that aren't based on your opinion and we might be able to talk. Until then it's your 15 bucks vs my own.
Again, you keep referring to learning from others, that is a choice, around here it doesn't seem to be, it seems like people have to pay dues. I don't HAVE to ask anyone for help, that's my choice, some people have the ability to figure things out for themselves you know.
You think I have an ego because I don't ask for help? Sounds like I'm not the one with the ego problem.
I can't imagine you turning at the bottom of a furball in a Spitfire to work on your stall fighting. By the way you've asserted your interaction some other AH player will now post a single vid on YouTube and dismiss you.
I warned you about the dangers of bombastically impressing yourselves on this community. Now you are marginalized. Already.
You can't imagine because your blinded by your opinion. You should follow me around and see how I fight before saying what you can or can't imagine. You wouldn't need to, because you'd know.
Dangers, lol, I'm not even going to address this.
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its very gratifying to dominate a troll in a game and watch them peck at the keyboard to save face.
:lol
Yes it is, Skyyr vs Dolby/Cargnico thread rang the loudest bell just now
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It's interesting how you keep trying to turn this discussion about 2v2 into one about 1v1 "skillz", Triton. Since I refuse to believe you have ulterior motives for doing so....I am forced to conclude that you have a disregard for wingman tactics. So why did you choose to participate in a 2v2 in the first place?
No. Your squaddie seems to be implying that being part of the winning team in a 2v2 makes him a superior pilot. This is not the case, so I laughed.
I don't disregard wingman tactics. They certainly have a place in one's journey through the game, but to this point in my toon life I've given these tactics about 15 total minutes of consideration. This will change.
I accepted the invitation because I enjoy fighting and I don't make a habit of backing away from DA invitations, even if it might result in my not winning. The same cannot be said about everyone in this thread.
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Kruel,
There was no chest pumping from me/triton when you lost the 5 v 5 so your predictive skills are broken along with your ability to judge what rules do for any fight.
We can do our Spit 5 v FM2 rematch, mmmkay? Lol
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We can do our Spit 5 v FM2 rematch, mmmkay? Lol
Was this in the MA?
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No. Your squaddie seems to be implying that being part of the winning team in a 2v2 makes him a superior pilot.
I think you are mistaken....but that may be a misinterpretation on my part.
I accepted the invitation because I enjoy fighting and I don't make a habit of backing away from DA invitations, even if it might result in my not winning. The same cannot be said about everyone in this thread.
Have you specifically asked for a 1v1 with either? I'm not asking about others.....have you done so?
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Kruel,
There was no chest pumping from me/triton when you lost the 5 v 5 so your predictive skills are broken along with your ability to judge what rules do for any fight.
We can do our Spit 5 v FM2 rematch, mmmkay? Lol
Epic 4v1? Lol, Triton wasn't in the 5v5 he has nothing to say about it.
Spit 5 vs FM2? What fight was this?
Doesn't matter, try to redeem yourselves in the 2v2, I hope you practice and get better at it. We are happy to have brought that deficiency in your skillset to your attention.
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I think you are mistaken....but that may be a misinterpretation on my part.
Have you specifically asked for a 1v1 with either? I'm not asking about others.....have you done so?
I think you're purposefully misunderstanding.
I have not. Since you're so good at being a liaison, you set that up. I'm sure we'll have some long negotiations about fuel load there too. :)
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I think you're purposefully misunderstanding.
I have not. Since you're so good at being a liaison, you set that up. I'm sure we'll have some long negotiations about fuel load there too. :)
I'm not purposefully misunderstanding, but since I can't prove that I'll simply drop it for now.
I'm not Kruel or Skyyr's liaison. I'm simply asking a series of questions.
Do you consider Batfink to be a superior 1v1 pilot to you and/or ChangeUp?
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Spit 5 vs FM2? What fight was this?
Let's go Surfinn now, everybody's learning how, common and....and...what's my fuel load?
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Do you consider Batfink to be a superior 1v1 pilot to you and/or ChangeUp?
Batfink has to be top 3 for 1v1 ability that play in game currently.
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I'm not purposefully misunderstanding, but since I can't prove that I'll simply drop it for now.
I'm not Kruel or Skyyr's liaison. I'm simply asking a series of questions.
Do you consider Batfink to be a superior 1v1 pilot to you and/or ChangeUp?
Why are you asking questions? For someone who routinely rage deletes BBS accounts because they don't like drama you're doing your best to get in the middle of all this. lol
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Let's go Surfinn now, everybody's learning how, common and....and...what's my fuel load?
Deny, deny, deny til ya die
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I'm not purposefully misunderstanding, but since I can't prove that I'll simply drop it for now.
I'm not Kruel or Skyyr's liaison. I'm simply asking a series of questions.
Do you consider Batfink to be a superior 1v1 pilot to you and/or ChangeUp?
That doesn't matter. We already know I'm better that you. We can go again if you like as long as you've NOT become a pathetic rules-hound.
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Batfink has to be top 3 for 1v1 ability that play in game currently.
Thanks. I have to agree he's up there on the list to be sure.
Why are you asking questions? For someone who routinely rage deletes BBS accounts because they don't like drama you're doing your best to get in the middle of all this. lol
I am asking questions for the same reasons you would (and have) when others have forum disputes with members of your squad. It is true that I don't like drama, but that seems to follow being on the forums so I've learned to accept it for what it is. Thanks for your concern.
All that said, if you or ChangeUp want to continually peck at Kruel and/or Skyyr about their skills....challenge each of them directly. If they accept and you beat them, or they don't accept, great! Bully for you!
That doesn't matter. We already know I'm better that you. We can go again if you like as long as you've NOT become a pathetic rules-hound.
Probably, but that isn't really what this was about, was it? BTW....have YOU challenged or fought them 1v1 in the DA?
BTW - I mentioned before that I'm always available. I'm on most nights so you can find me. If you feel the need to beat out your frustration, using community standard rules, I'm happy to be your potential punching bad. Like Triton, I enjoy fighting for the fun of it. :P
:salute
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Thanks. I have to agree he's up there on the list to be sure.
I am asking questions for the same reasons you would (and have) when others have forum disputes with members of your squad. It is true that I don't like drama, but that seems to follow being on the forums so I've learned to accept it for what it is. Thanks for your concern.
All that said, if you or ChangeUp want to continually peck at Kruel and/or Skyyr about their skills....challenge each of them directly. If they accept and you beat them, or they don't accept, great! Bully for you!
Probably, but that isn't really what this was about, was it? BTW....have YOU challenged or fought them 1v1 in the DA?
BTW - I mentioned before that I'm always available. I'm on most nights so you can find me. If you feel the need to beat out your frustration, using community standard rules, I'm happy to be your potential punching bad. Like Triton, I enjoy fighting for the fun of it. :P
:salute
I have accepted Skyyrs. Didn't happen because it was 1230AM and I had a 8am flight and he didn't want to only fly 1 fight. You were there. It was after the 5 v 5. And if you aren't really their mouthpiece, stop issuing challenges for them. They're capable of it themselves.
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It has yet be be explained how both pilots taking the same fuel load won't work in a 2v2 setting.
ack-ack
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I have accepted Skyyrs. Didn't happen because it was 1230AM and I had a 8am flight and he didn't want to only fly 1 fight. You were there. It was after the 5 v 5. And if you aren't really their mouthpiece, stop issuing challenges for them. They're capable of it themselves.
I wasn't issuing challenges for them. I asked some questions and made a simple suggestion in leiu of all........this.
As for the rest, I was on that night but actually wasn't aware of the after fight stuff. I was mistaken, so please accept my apologies. :salute
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It has yet be be explained how both pilots taking the same fuel load won't work in a 2v2 setting.
ack-ack
This thread is a perfect reason why nothing can ever get solved in the HOR or Congress. Dumb arguements over meanial subjects that can and should be easily agreed upon but one little stupid insecurity like fuel makes it a huge debacle.
It should be the same for both teams.
I don't really think it's ideally fair in duels if you don't bring enough gas and end up losing the fight because you didn't know the gas limits for that plane, while the enemy is using BnZ tactics after an E merge and are too afraid to engage without losing E states. You could play the dive and pull up game every fight, just bring 100% and run them out of fuel this way.
A time limit won't do anything other that allow that E merge fighter team to not engage until late in the fight. Once they get a kill they can stay high so the other team cant get a kill. Time runs out, team with most players win.
If both teams have the same fuel their is no excuse for running out if gas, no stay high and BnZ but there will be pressure to get a kill before gas runs out, and both sides will start evenly, both sides won't have to worry about picking too much or too less to be put at a disadvantage from the start.
I explained that here
Edit: actually, explained how different load outs can be annoying and how they can effect advantages and disadvantages.
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It has yet be be explained how both pilots taking the same fuel load won't work in a 2v2 setting.
ack-ack
At one point in the negotiations before the 5 v 5 they asked if reloading was ok. They didn't press the issue, I'll give them that but that question goes to frame-of-mind.
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So what you are saying is that 2 non experienced pilots would give 2 vets ACM problems? Aren't the 2 Vets supposed be better at ACM? Is that not what makes them vets?
Try to read more carefully Kruel because I sometimes use big words. I said:-
"In my experience two relatively inexperienced sticks can give a more experienced stick more difficult ACM problems to solve".
If that's your experience, that's great, does it mean the same should be true for anyone else? Everyone has different experiences, and opinions. That doesn't make them fact.
My experience is from consistently fighting many opponents on the deck alone in a plane that can't run once in that position. You can ask around if you doubt my credentials. So in this domain I'm inferring I know better than you. Which is a safe assumption.
I want them to pick those skills up, the more people that do it the better, if your 'kills by skills'(lmao) faction loses then what will they excuse be then?
Your skillset will be a subset of theirs by then. Nevermind I'm sure there are plenty of reasons you can find to explain it away.
IMHO, Competition means, like it does in any other sport, is to beat the other team. Who doesn't love to win? Normally I wouldn't shove it in someone's face, but considering the interactions we have had with ChangeUp and Triton in the past 3 months, it is deserved :)
Two wrongs don't make a right. Let's be honest you enjoyed it a little more than you're letting on. Regarding competition, I know several sticks in this game considerably more competitive than you if studying your videos is anything to go by. Competitive and needing to win BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE are two different things.
This is all subjective, you don't know how I practice my flying, or if I am working on different aspects of flying. All you know that my preference is to energy fight not to fight some other way because "the community" does it that way. You can not say any of this with any sort of objectivity. This is all your opinion, which doesn't matter much to me. Now come up with some objective points that aren't based on your opinion and we might be able to talk. Until then it's your 15 bucks vs my own.
"From a drop of water a logician could infer the possibility of an Atlantic or a Niagara without having seen or heard of one or the other". BnZ I learned in one month after the last (and indeed civilized) discussion I had with Skyyr. It was as I anticipated it to be. Why don't you spend a month stall fighting and then we can have a talk.
some people have the ability to figure things out for themselves you know.
So many have said so...
You think I have an ego because I don't ask for help? Sounds like I'm not the one with the ego problem.
No I think you have an ego because you behave in an egotistical manner.
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Try to read more carefully Kruel because I sometimes use big words. I said:-
"In my experience two relatively inexperienced sticks can give a more experienced stick more difficult ACM problems to solve".
I think you need to re-read the entire thread, this about 2v2s and bickering about rules. Now you mention a 2v1, stay on topic .
My experience is from consistently fighting many opponents on the deck alone in a plane that can't run once in that position. You can ask around if you doubt my credentials. So in this domain I'm inferring I know better than you. Which is a safe assumption.
Assumptions do not qualify as proper premises for a valid argument, inferring one thing or another makes your already invalid argument inductive in nature, to infer is to admit there
Is a probability that the conclusion of your argument is false. Probably is not the same as surely.
You think I probably don't practice stall/turn fighting.
I can surely tell you that I think it's a stupid way to fight, and I don't care to get caught up in it, especially in a multiple target environment. I try to fight my fight, not someone else's. My 15 bucks vs your own.
Your skillset will be a subset of theirs by then. Nevermind I'm sure there are plenty of reasons you can find to explain it away.
You're getting it now. But not really a need to explain as much as a want to disregard.
Two wrongs don't make a right. Let's be honest you enjoyed it a little more than you're letting on. Regarding competition, I know several sticks in this game considerably more competitive than you if studying your videos is anything to go by. Competitive and needing to win BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE are two different things.
More than I'm letting on?! I think I've been pretty honest that regard!
Again, you assume that you know exactly how competitive I am therefore can compare , I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just pointing out this glaring hole in your argument. (You're wrong though, lol)
"From a drop of water a logician could infer the possibility of an Atlantic or a Niagara without having seen or heard of one or the other". BnZ I learned in one month after the last (and indeed civilized) discussion I had with Skyyr. It was as I anticipated it to be. Why don't you spend a month stall fighting and then we can have a talk.
There's a chance your logician could be wrong.
Why don't you spend the rest of your life realizing that I don't HAVE to learn squat, if I am happy with results I am getting with what I choose to learn/practice. This is 9 months in, let's talk in a year or two.
No I think you have an ego because you behave in an egotistical manner.
Yes, but only because arguments like yours," fly this way, don't do this or that" that's not condescending at all :rolleyes:
My argument is this: in competitive flights: You fly your way, I fly my own. In the end one will be left standing.
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I for one was kinda of dissapointed to see this post in the first place.
For one it doesn't really matter, only to the actual participants. For 2, it starts another unnecissary flame war, instead of encouraging competition. For 3, it has made all the participants look bad rather than true fighters for the sport of it.
I do always enjoy competition and I actually like the level of competitivness that kruel and skyyr have brought to the game.
I for one enjoy being the enemy in this game, so I'm glad their are people make it seem like it's a real war, battle, where both teams actually do hate each other.
It brings some spice to the action and burning desire to shoot them down.. Which is fun.
But this whole thread was designed to make the participants and all the posters look bad by contradicting arguments (who thinks they are the best) and "knowledge of the "game" when it's not even this issue of the this thread.
In actuality you all F#$@king suck.
Come get owned in the MA tonight
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I do always enjoy competition and I actually like the level of competitivness that kruel and skyyr have brought to the game.
I for one enjoy being the enemy in this game, so I'm glad their are people make it seem like it's a real war, battle, where both teams actually do hate each other.
It brings some spice to the action and burning desire to shoot them down.. Which is fun.
In actuality you all F#$@king suck.
Come get owned in the MA tonight
YES :#-)##:-)&$@ Someone understands! Good kill the other night by the way, that was me not turn/stall fighting ROFL.
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I think you need to re-read the entire thread, this about 2v2s and bickering about rules. Now you mention a 2v1, stay on topic .
You mentioned pilot skill. My point was relevant to that.
Assumptions do not qualify as proper premises for a valid argument, inferring one thing or another makes your already invalid argument inductive in nature, to infer is to admit there
Is a probability that the conclusion of your argument is false. Probably is not the same as surely.
No but they're a good starting point for an inference.
You think I probably don't practice stall/turn fighting.
Another inference of mine is that people who are drawn to BnZ and defend it with the zealousness we are seeing here aren't very capable in stall fights. Am I incorrect?
I can surely tell you that I think it's a stupid way to fight, and I don't care to get caught up in it, especially in a multiple target environment. I try to fight my fight, not someone else's. My 15 bucks vs your own.
Your $15 bucks argument pertains to the anarchic world of the MA. If you're going to compete outside of that then the rules have to be fair and mutually agreeable. Or is only your $15 dollars important?
You're getting it now.
You'd be surprised how much I get. So much that I wish I didn't.
Why don't you spend the rest of your life realizing that I don't HAVE to learn squat, if I am happy with results I am getting with what I choose to learn/practice. This is 9 months in, let's talk in a year or two.
You're not that interesting. Rather two-dimensional actually. 9 months conversion to this game with how many years in the previous one? What are you going to do Kruel, shoot people down and then brag about it. Ooooh, scary.
Yes, but only because arguments like yours," fly this way, don't do this or that" that's not condescending at all :rolleyes:
My argument is this: in competitive flights: You fly your way, I fly my own. In the end one will be left standing.
Aha! But this is precisely the point isn't it. Your faction does not tolerate other beliefs but interprets them as a perversion from the real purpose. Any different opinion to your philosophy you view as excuses because they lost. You can fly any way you please I do not care and appreciate the diversity. What you can't do (no matter how many times you repeat) is to assert your standing and others not makes you right.
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I'm starting to worry that some folks who used to have perspective on the game have lost it. Kinda sad really. You are all AH gods. You will have to come up with your own soda money :)
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Hello all,
I'm sorry to butt in, but I was reading this thread earlier tonight, and it wound up raising a number of questions.
Before I address those questions, however, allow me to provide some background: In preparation for reading this thread, I poured myself a beer, a locally brewed west-coast IPA, and selected a can of Salt and Vinegar flavored Pringles, which I find accompany a beer quite nicely. I have also found something salty and fried often helps me avoid nausia, which I anticipated of this thread, so I believed I had chosen well in preparation for reading this.
However, approximately half way through my beer and this thread, and exactly 13 Pringles into the can, I discovered, nestled between two of the chips, a shiny, near mint, 2013 Lincoln penny! Imagine my surprise upon discovering a penny in my Pringles! It didn't seem possible for it to be there -- a penny resting nicely between two nesting hyperbolic paraboloid potato chips. And yet, there was the gleaming profile of old Abe almost smirking at me from inside my snack can, as if to say "funny seeing me here, isn't it?"
Flabbergasted at the discovery, I hollered to my wife in the other room, "Honey, come here an check this out!", turning roughly 45-degrees and swinging my arm outward, in order to project my voice past the den door and into the front of the house. This motion resulted in hitting my pint glass with my forearm, causing it to wobble precariously, like some ale-filled top for what seemed like an eternity, until it finally came to rest, right side up, without spilling a drop. It seems the glass being only half full (I generally take an optimists view towards beer) and bottom heavy kept the glass from toppling over.
The serendipity of the event wasn't lost on me, for only moments before discovering the penny, I had considered finishing my beer and going for a refill -- I had several pages of this thread yet to read and was thinking I may need the extra fortitude to go on. But, for some reason, call it fate, I somehow resisted the urge to down the last half-pint of my beer in exasperation at the thread and take a break for a refill. Had the glass been full upon my discovery of the penny in my Pringles, my resulting gesture would surely have caused some significant spillage, wasting a fine IPA, potentially damaging one or more of my peripheral devices, and casting a further pall upon this thread.
As it was, this swirl of circumstances left my head spinning; to my left a paradoxical situation whereupon a full pint of beer would have been a bad thing, in front of me a grueling train-wreck of an AH forum thread, and in my right hand, a penny-marred can of salt and vinegar Pringles.
This leads me to my questions:
1) What if I had been engaged in one of these 2v2 duels while I suddenly discovered a penny in my Pringles? Would I be allowed to bow out due to a Force Majeure incident? Could I refight the duel if sufficient proof, such as film said incident, were provided? Shouldn't a Force Majeure rule exist for 2v2 dueling?
2) I imagine "the community" would agree that spilling of any beer, let alone a craft-brewed west coast IPA, constitutes Force Majeure as well, no? To avoid issues, such as using "I spilled my beer" as a post-duel excuse, should we agree in the rules that all beer glasses only be filled half-way, so as to make this a reliable and consistent factor for all participants?
3) More importantly, what should I do with the remaining Pringles in my can?! Remove the penny and eat them without worry? Discard them immediately? Take a photograph as evidence and return them to the market in order to request replacement?
4) What type of flavored Pringles (or any snack food, if not a fan of Pringles) do you think best accompanies fighting 2v2 duels? Do you think any particular beverage or snack food may provide an unfair advantage to a duelist? If so, should this be ruled upon?
5) What do you think I should do with the penny? Return it with the Pringles to the market? Put it in my change dish as I would any ordinary penny? Frame and mount it above my monitor to remind me to remain light-hearted about all gaming things such as Aces High?
I sincerely hope these questions don't lead to further strife and argument on the forums, but your input on these pressing issues would be very much appreciated.
<S>
Ryno
Thanks for the great post. Best in this thread by far! :aok
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Another inference of mine is that people who are drawn to BnZ and defend it with the zealousness we are seeing here aren't very capable in stall fights. Am I incorrect?
The last encounter I remember encountering Kruel in the MA, I spotted a lower La7 while flying an La7 of my own, attacked it, damaged it, but the he forced the overshot and I went *poof* shortly thereafter. I think this may be a data point in both the "Does Kruel suck?" and "Is bnz'ing easy?" debate. *shrug*
I'm not quite sure what is meant by "stall fighting". Would any of these klep in?
http://www.mediafire.com/download/25h3ina2eo9pyhz/2slo_0041.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/25h3ina2eo9pyhz/2slo_0041.ahf)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/flyzozbdoqjvndl/FlymanK4duels.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/flyzozbdoqjvndl/FlymanK4duels.ahf)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/qlri58eybwrrxy7/p51spitIX.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/qlri58eybwrrxy7/p51spitIX.ahf)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/88j7113n2618knk/P51engagement.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/88j7113n2618knk/P51engagement.ahf)
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I can't read any more""..."........"........
FIGHT MORE TALK LESS
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FIGHT MORE TALK LESS
QFT
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The last encounter I remember encountering Kruel in the MA, I spotted a lower La7 while flying an La7 of my own, attacked it, damaged it, but the he forced the overshot and I went *poof* shortly thereafter. I think this may be a data point in both the "Does Kruel suck?" and "Is bnz'ing easy?" debate. *shrug*
I'm not quite sure what is meant by "stall fighting". Would any of these klep in?
http://www.mediafire.com/download/25h3ina2eo9pyhz/2slo_0041.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/25h3ina2eo9pyhz/2slo_0041.ahf)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/flyzozbdoqjvndl/FlymanK4duels.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/flyzozbdoqjvndl/FlymanK4duels.ahf)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/qlri58eybwrrxy7/p51spitIX.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/qlri58eybwrrxy7/p51spitIX.ahf)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/88j7113n2618knk/P51engagement.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/88j7113n2618knk/P51engagement.ahf)
An outlier....lol.
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The last encounter I remember encountering Kruel in the MA, I spotted a lower La7 while flying an La7 of my own, attacked it, damaged it, but the he forced the overshot and I went *poof* shortly thereafter. I think this may be a data point in both the "Does Kruel suck?" and "Is bnz'ing easy?" debate. *shrug*
I'm not quite sure what is meant by "stall fighting". Would any of these klep in?
http://www.mediafire.com/download/25h3ina2eo9pyhz/2slo_0041.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/25h3ina2eo9pyhz/2slo_0041.ahf)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/flyzozbdoqjvndl/FlymanK4duels.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/flyzozbdoqjvndl/FlymanK4duels.ahf)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/qlri58eybwrrxy7/p51spitIX.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/qlri58eybwrrxy7/p51spitIX.ahf)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/88j7113n2618knk/P51engagement.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/88j7113n2618knk/P51engagement.ahf)
I'll watch those later BnZ and will also respond to your earlier PM :salute
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As a member of the Training Corps I believe it my duty to answer these queries as best I can for the sake of refreshments and duellists everywhere.
1)I believe such a rule should exist. Further more I believe real time streaming via webcam or alternative video capturing device should be mandatory for all 2 v 2 duels. In this way any potential Force Majeure incidents may be addressed promptly and with full HD clarity. This may sound a trivial matter, but I would urge those who do not see the dangers involved in ale wastage, or the potential for life changing discoveries within snack food, to think again. How would you feel if this happened to you? Try to put yourself in this position and visualise the emotional roller coaster that may ensue. This is no light circumstance to find oneself assailed by whilst passing the 15k mark in a 75% fuel energy fight.
2)Half filled beer is a must for 2 v 2 duelling. However, I find the suggestion that a pint glass be only half filled mildly offensive and in the interest of political stability I feel it is imperative that all pints be filled in entirety with the participants being forced, by fair ruling mind, to finish at least half of each pint before the merge.
3)The answer is simple. Remove the two adjacent pringles so as to avoid any contamination. Place these in a ziplock baggy as evidence. Now eat all but the last three pringles at your leisure. Finally, replace the penny on these last remaining pringles and take the afore mentioned photograph as evidence and then, only then, demand your replacement can.
4)Salt and vinegar and real ale are the only refreshments allowed in any 2v2 duel. Any 'light beer' will be confiscated and destroyed. Any snacks boasting the flavours 'BBQ', 'Cajun' or 'Paprika' will be considered doping and the participant(s) disqualified immediately with the possibility to face a 12 hour side switching ban.
5)The answer is simple and can be best described with this short, educational video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEN-iqMlB3Q
Thank you sir, for raising these pertinent and pressing questions.
S!
batfink
AHTC 2v2 Liaison Officer
Batfink sir,
Thank you for addressing the multiple conundrums I presented above.
While I had hoped for a more robust response from a wide sampling of players in hopes of reaching a "community consensus", the fact that you are an experienced and well-respected AH pilot, part of the Training Corps and someone who appreciates salt-and-vinegars with ale, lends enough credence to your answers to put my mind fully at ease.
Thank you again for your response.
p.s. Your suggested handling of the remaining Pringles is sheer genius.
<S>
Thanks for the great post. Best in this thread by far! :aok
You're welcome. ;)
<S>
Ryno
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In actuality you all F#$@king suck.
Come get owned in the MA tonight
Looking forward to it as always! :aok
Great post, Violator. :salute
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Batfink has to be top 3 for 1v1 ability that play in game currently.
ahh man, there are people who can fight, people who want to learn to fight and people who are afraid to learn that they can't yet fight. There can never be a list in any other format.
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ahh man, there are people who can fight, people who want to learn to fight and people who are afraid to learn that they can't yet fight. There can never be a list in any other format.
Deathly afraid, as this thread suggests.
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This thread is toxic to Aces High.
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ahh man, there are people who can fight, people who want to learn to fight and people who are afraid to learn that they can't yet fight. There can never be a list in any other format.
But anyone who has ever fought a 1v1 cannot possibly be consigned to that last category...there was a possibility of them losing, yet they came on. And since the majority of players have done that thing, that means the third category must be thinly populated.
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p.s. Your suggested handling of the remaining Pringles is sheer genius.
While it seems ingenious on first inspection I have to disagree.
Clearly the Pringles Company is being complacent with their shareholders investments. I would photograph the evidence sending strongly worded letters to the SEC and to your congressman urging stronger Federal oversight.
In addition, I'd submit this evidence to a reputable law firm in consideration of a class action lawsuit. While the rewards may take several additional years to obtain, they may well be sufficiently higher to justify the wait. In fact, if you want to maximize this eggregious error on the part of the Pringles Company, you could complete your own law degree before bringing action, thus taking the lawers share of the suit as well.
Hope this helps.
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This thread is toxic to Aces High.
Every time there is an argument about competition, or an AH member who prefers a2a fights raises an issue, god not only kills a kitten, but a potential new customer doesn't sign up, and a 2 weaker leaves in tears. Three innocent creatures harmed by one single act!
I would counter that threads like this are essential to Aces High. Challenges, egos, education, arguments, and jokes about all the above - it all makes the world go around.
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Every time there is an argument about competition, or an AH member who prefers a2a fights raises an issue, god not only kills a kitten, but a potential new customer doesn't sign up, and a 2 weaker leaves in tears. Three innocent creatures harmed by one single act!
I would counter that threads like this are essential to Aces High. Challenges, egos, education, arguments, and jokes about all the above - it all makes the world go around.
+1
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In addition, I'd submit this evidence to a reputable law firm in consideration of a class action lawsuit.
I endorse this idea.
- oldman
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ahh man, there are people who can fight, people who want to learn to fight and people who are afraid to learn that they can't yet fight. There can never be a list in any other format.
Not many people in this game can beat me every 1v1 in any plane in the set...not saying I'm crazy good but I'm good enough to tell how good someone is vs the rest of the community.
Bat, you literally handicapped yourself the other night so as to make the fight better for both of us. Inverted merge, what an a hole :D
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Bat, you literally handicapped yourself the other night so as to make the fight better for both of us. Inverted merge, what an a hole :D
:rofl that sounds like something batfink would do, and Bighorn and Dedalos
that is hilarious
TC
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as long as i have played aces high 25% fuel in duels has been what most use if you need more then why even duel in the first place it is a fight after all not a track meet. rather it be 1v1 or 10v10 25% is enough
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as long as i have played aces high 25% fuel in duels has been what most use if you need more then why even duel in the first place it is a fight after all not a track meet. rather it be 1v1 or 10v10 25% is enough
TC and Company know that. Not sure why he's not helpin the "less than a year" guys understand it though.
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TC and Company know that. Not sure why he's not helpin the "less than a year" guys understand it though.
:noid
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Not many people in this game can beat me every 1v1 in any plane in the set...not saying I'm crazy good but I'm good enough to tell how good someone is vs the rest of the community.
Bat, you literally handicapped yourself the other night so as to make the fight better for both of us. Inverted merge, what an a hole :D
:D are we having fun yet?
Actually the inverted merge makes no difference if we are both merging roughly flat circles. Either way it's a 90 degree roll at just before the 3-9
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:rofl that sounds like something batfink would do, and Bighorn and Dedalos
that is hilarious
TC
batfink is a dirty trixter who hos on the merge
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wow... just wow... 18 pages of utter ker-rap-ola since 8/18... and about what? Of course, you don't even need to ask. It's the perpetual war. No, I don't mean AH Main Arena. I mean Damned versus AoM in no "holes" barred man-on-man tag-team gangbang action. I'm glad I used my shades Vraciu and DeBrody to touch off this little bit of drama. For now I just sit back, enjoy the cluster, and watch, chuckling, chuckling, chuckling... eventually filling my adult diapers as a result, drinking more off the fifth that has become as faithful a sidekick as Robin was to Batman, passing out, then watching more and chuckling, chuckling, chuckling, slack-jawed, drooling, and so inebriated and apathetic that even continence is too much to ask.
And, in case you're wondering, NO this will not end well either, same as all the other Muppet vs. Damned threads. That's why I'm IN before the lock, once again establishing that I am AWESOME. :banana:
as ever, MANOWAR (come drive your kalifornia kustom to join the kill klub)
As for the dude writing about acts of god, IPAs, salt and vinegar chips, and lawsuits,
1. ipa is a trendy sort of subtle ale... shouldn't you have been eating it with something a good deal "hotter", speaking in Scoville terms?
2. Nothing goes well with those disgusting vinegar and salt chips
3. The penny is unsanitary, Lincoln a foolish man who got himself wasted during a worthless diversion (see Rollins' comments on Williams for context).
4. You should sue the maker of the IPA, Pringles, the manufacturer of your computer hardware, Dale Addink personally, Hitech as a company, The Distributor of the Pringles, the retail outlet that sold the Pringles, any motor vehicle manufacturers whose products transported the Pringles, and, of course, the lawyer handling your case. What the hell, get him to take it on contingency. You only need to hit on any one of these...
Meanwhile, can I get a cop to... You see, there's this Best B... Oops... mustn't go there...
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India Pale Ale subtle? Nah. The first I tried it, my thoughts were "Why oh why did someone make a liquified cedar tree?" Those West coast hops man. But it grows on you. Still, porter and stout remain the "king of beers" for me.
(http://www.beerclubguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Jefferson-Stout.jpg)
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I suppose you're right, on an objective and absolute level. But my view is fairly narrow and I am way too out of the drinking practice to call myself vell-versed any more. Still, I too was, at least back in the day, a Stoutie (I really like the Oatmeal Stout from the Tadcaster brewery). To me, a pale ale doesn't stand up, in relative terms, and thus rates a "subtle". Of course, in terms relative to say, A Miller Lite, it would be a different story. And IPAs vary significantly as well - the originals (how it got its name back in the 1700s... apparently hops are a good preservative for the long voyage to India) were very malty AND hoppy and boasted high alcohol content. Most aren't like that any more. They give up both hop and malt and get a lower alcohol content as well - 4-6% as oppose dto the original English brews that were more like 9%. Supposedly, watering it down is mor elike how it was normally consumed, though I've also read that officers in the British army (in India) drank it full strength.
As for Porter, don't you find it a little bit like a case of sore balls? I mean: it always seemed too "on the fence" for me. I want the ful boat or I want something much lighter. BTW, if you're West Coast, can you still get Sea Lion Stout from Monterey Brewing? The carbonation was Brioschi-like.
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I'll stick with rum.
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1. ipa is a trendy sort of subtle ale... shouldn't you have been eating it with something a good deal "hotter", speaking in Scoville terms?
2. Nothing goes well with those disgusting vinegar and salt chips
While I agree with the bulk of your post, I disagree with these two important points.
Anyone who's had a West Coast (read: hoppy) IPA will never describe it as subtle. The particular one I was drinking is a 9% ABV Double Imperial IPA:
(http://www.barleypop.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Rampage-Imperial-IPA-190x276.jpg)
(Shown in the bottle, but I get mine by the growler (or two) full, as I live less than 5 minutes from the brewery.)
While, I'm a Scotch guy mostly, particularly Islay malts so I like a wealth of flavor and complexity in my beverages, I do like a nice complex beer as well. The key to a great west-coast IPA is a full-bodied maltiness, some sweetness, higher ABV, a good amount of dry-hop for citrus aroma, all to balance the the bitterness of the west coast hoppy style. If done correctly, the bitterness becomes only one note in a symphony of flavor.
Add some salt and vinegar chips (read: "crisps" for you across the pond folks) and you have a happy hour of champions.
Respectfully yours,
Ryno
<S>
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You mentioned pilot skill. My point was relevant to that.
Not Relevant to a 2v2.
No but they're a good starting point for an inference.
Did you read what I said about inference?
Another inference of mine is that people who are drawn to BnZ and defend it with the zealousness we are seeing here aren't very capable in stall fights. Am I incorrect?
Such as the same zealousness with which turn/stall fighters defend their own style? I'm not sure what you mean what we are seeing here? Not sure if there is a 2v2 Stall fighting Only thread or turning fighting only or BnZ only. Just a 2v2 :)
Your $15 bucks argument pertains to the anarchic world of the MA. If you're going to compete outside of that then the rules have to be fair and mutually agreeable. Or is only your $15 dollars important?
That is the entire point of trying to have a reasonable discussion in regards to 2v2, who judges what is fair though? You do? Changeup? I don't think any of us do. If people would drop their biases and what THEIR idea of a fight is and try to look at the proposals objectively (kinda like Violator's last post), then a real conversation can be had, maybe some more 2v2s can be had.
You'd be surprised how much I get. So much that I wish I didn't.
Please enlighten me, I promise to tell you if you are correct or not.
You're not that interesting. Rather two-dimensional actually. 9 months conversion to this game with how many years in the previous one? What are you going to do Kruel, shoot people down and then brag about it. Ooooh, scary.
A few posts ago, I was a one dimensional E-Fighter who refused to learn anything..now I am moving up to 2 dimensions! I won't brag about every 2v2 I will have, I am sure I will lose some. I have lost duels. As a relatively new guy, I have seen behavior that is anything but honorable, I have seen hypocrisy that is just laughable. I will brag to those people if I beat them in this type of competition. I expect the same to be done to me.
Aha! But this is precisely the point isn't it. Your faction does not tolerate other beliefs but interprets them as a perversion from the real purpose. Any different opinion to your philosophy you view as excuses because they lost. You can fly any way you please I do not care and appreciate the diversity. What you can't do (no matter how many times you repeat) is to assert your standing and others not makes you right.
If any measure of intolerance is to be mentioned..talk about the guys who ignorantly think Energy fighting is easy or cheap. How rules should be put in place to not allow it (don't leave 2k range, alt caps, no front quarter shots(almost guaranteed in a rope). Please quote me where I said something like "it is decided". I honestly do want to develop this into some sort of standard. Now, if a standard cannot be agreed upon, those who choose to fight us anyways know where we stand.
Isn't the real purpose of having rules for 2v2 to make them neutral and unbiased towards a certain flight style or belief? If people more worried about what their personal idea of what a "fight" is than that isn't neutral. For example, people have different opinions of what HOs are, some chose to take them, some despise them. How do we make that neutral? Those are the kinds of discussions we should be having.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR2og3B1r3c
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Isn't the real purpose of having rules for 2v2 to make them neutral and unbiased towards a certain flight style or belief?
It's true for any duel if the intent is to have a fair fight, which is why both parties agreeing to the same fuel load helps achieve this goal. Skyyr's and your suggestions do not.
ack-ack
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What happened to Skyyr anyway? It seems he bailed on his squaddie in these dueling threads.
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What happened to Skyyr anyway? It seems he bailed on his squaddie in these dueling threads.
Funny isnt it?
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The American craft trademark is kinda hops'ing the crap out of everything these days. And brewing it "Imperial"...we Americans do love to turn it up to 11. I guess this country was still kind of a beer wasteland even 15 years ago...I didn't even think I *liked* beer till I had my first Guiness. Nowadays though, you can't throw a dart a map of the North American continent without hitting the location of a craft brewery.
Choose between porter and stout? I'd as soon choose between eating ribs and eating bacon!
I suppose you're right, on an objective and absolute level. But my view is fairly narrow and I am way too out of the drinking practice to call myself vell-versed any more. Still, I too was, at least back in the day, a Stoutie (I really like the Oatmeal Stout from the Tadcaster brewery). To me, a pale ale doesn't stand up, in relative terms, and thus rates a "subtle". Of course, in terms relative to say, A Miller Lite, it would be a different story. And IPAs vary significantly as well - the originals (how it got its name back in the 1700s... apparently hops are a good preservative for the long voyage to India) were very malty AND hoppy and boasted high alcohol content. Most aren't like that any more. They give up both hop and malt and get a lower alcohol content as well - 4-6% as oppose dto the original English brews that were more like 9%. Supposedly, watering it down is mor elike how it was normally consumed, though I've also read that officers in the British army (in India) drank it full strength.
As for Porter, don't you find it a little bit like a case of sore balls? I mean: it always seemed too "on the fence" for me. I want the ful boat or I want something much lighter. BTW, if you're West Coast, can you still get Sea Lion Stout from Monterey Brewing? The carbonation was Brioschi-like.
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What happened to Skyyr anyway? It seems he bailed on his squaddie in these dueling threads.
Last time i seen him i plucked the wing off his 190d was last seen running and ditching near A94 :ahand
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The American craft trademark is kinda hops'ing the crap out of everything these days. And brewing it "Imperial"...we Americans do love to turn it up to 11. I guess this country was still kind of a beer wasteland even 15 years ago...I didn't even think I *liked* beer till I had my first Guiness. Nowadays though, you can't throw a dart a map of the North American continent without hitting the location of a craft brewery.
Choose between porter and stout? I'd as soon choose between eating ribs and eating bacon!
I had no idea. Apparently it has evolved, especially if they're brewing it "Imperial". Though, I will say, back when I lived in Northern California, you could find a significant number of craft breweries -but I doubt the proliferation was anything like today.
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It's true for any duel if the intent is to have a fair fight, which is why both parties agreeing to the same fuel load helps achieve this goal. Skyyr's and your suggestions do not.
ack-ack
OK, so lets say that's agreed upon..can it change on a per plane basis? so lets say something like loading 25% for this round, but 50% for the next round because the plane's fuel capacity doesn't allow for more than 10 minutes of fighting (excluding climbing out to the merge).
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And I'll add, it's a hell of a lot more interesting topic than AoM versus Damned, which is kind of pigs versus hogs or dogs versus dawgs, or any two virtually indistinguishable things in opposition to each other.
I guess we could be skuzpumped for high jacking the thread but, honestly, if Skuzzy reads this thread, he's probably just going to shut it down anyway, since is basically a toasting thread; a tad shy of flaming.
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That is the entire point of trying to have a reasonable discussion in regards to 2v2, who judges what is fair though? You do? Changeup? I don't think any of us do. If people would drop their biases and what THEIR idea of a fight is and try to look at the proposals objectively (kinda like Violator's last post), then a real conversation can be had, maybe some more 2v2s can be had.
You've already had this explained to you by more than me. You've failed to answer AKAK's question about why equal fuel load agreement isn't fair. Continuing to operate outside the realm of reason doesn't help your cause. These are not my rules. They are the community at large's rules that have been vetted over a period of time longer than most have played the game itself. The community isn't inflexible...BaldEagl has adjusted rules and regs at almost every turn. Democratic? Sure but he also put is foot down on ridiculousness because the community raised their concerns about topics like filming, fairness and above all, the fight itself.
The rules in any sport are developed over time by input from players but they never allow for any possible advantage for either team/side/player. You are attempting to rationalize possible advantage. The community is saying no for the most part. To continue this is pretty insulting to be honest but the best part of all of it is that even if you believe yourself to be more cerebral than most here, in the end they won...because they simply wont engage in an unfair situation and you two are left to ACM masterbation. No one wants to watch people fly around chasing them only to run out of fuel. You wouldn't do that? Then fuel load shouldn't be an issue. There is no other explanation that is logical or rationale to make that less true. I can see it already. Hypothetically, Junky and Krup get one up on you two and then you simply load 50% fuel as opposed to their 25% and you evade until they run out of fuel. The win is yours. Argue that a different way is better because of fairness...not because you want to convince people that you are providing a possible advantage to them. They don't want an advantage and don't need the excuses after the competition is over.
I actually feel sorry for you both. As this argument develops its occurs to me how sad it must be to be so beholden to winning that you fear losing enough to need a crutch like uneven fuel loads. I have know people like that my whole life and they are sad, sad folks. See, winners find a way to get it done within the confines of fairness and fear little in the arena of business, sports, family and life...losers find a way to hedge their performance/results. I bet you've got a set of golf pants with a Velcro pocket Kruel (you may put that in your sig)...so, how will you ever know how good you really are? Don't answer that...you never will if you hedge advantage or are even tainted with the possibility of it.
Saying all of that, I'd love to have a beer with you and Skyyr but not for the reasons you might think: to confirm my image of you both. I'll buy.
Good luck to you.
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OK, so lets say that's agreed upon..can it change on a per plane basis? so lets say something like loading 25% for this round, but 50% for the next round because the plane's fuel capacity doesn't allow for more than 10 minutes of fighting (excluding climbing out to the merge).
If the players decided to take 25% for the first fight and then decide on 50% for the next fight, there is nothing wrong with that. There is also nothing that states a duel has to be at 25% fuel, the duelers can decide on whatever fuel load they wish to take as long as both take the same amount.
ack-ack
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If the players decided to take 25% for the first fight and then decide on 50% for the next fight, there is nothing wrong with that. There is also nothing that states a duel has to be at 25% fuel, the duelers can decide on whatever fuel load they wish to take as long as both take the same amount.
ack-ack
+1 with the exception that wanting more fuel for the next fight COULD give away your plans for that fight.
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You've already had this explained to you by more than me. You've failed to answer AKAK's question about why equal fuel load agreement isn't fair. Continuing to operate outside the realm of reason doesn't help your cause. These are not my rules. They are the community at large's rules that have been vetted over a period of time longer than most have played the game itself. The community isn't inflexible...BaldEagl has adjusted rules and regs at almost every turn. Democratic? Sure but he also put is foot down on ridiculousness because the community raised their concerns about topics like filming, fairness and above all, the fight itself.
There's a difference between discussing it and "Hurrr Hurr Its the only way to make sure its fair!", that's not my idea of an explanation. I never said carrying equal loads isn't fair. My point is, that for some planes 25% isn't enough to have a fight that could possibly take longer, while in others it might be. My follow up question to AKAK addresses this. If you agree to a duel is the fuel load set for the entire duel or can it change each round? Our proposal simply made that a non issue.
Additionally, I did allude to the fact that even though fuel load outs might be agreed upon, there are some who might take advantage and load less. Considering the evidence of the idiocy of this thread, could you not agree that squabbles over films are sure to ensue? Our proposal simple made this a non issue.
They both have Pros and Cons.
The rules in any sport are developed over time by input from players but they never allow for any possible advantage for either team/side/player.
They do allow for it because people can cheat by loading less, an advantage is possible even if disingenuous. Then it becomes a squabble for films (if they are even suspected of doing it at all). It leaves room for doubt..even the slightest bit. Why not find a way to nip that in the bud before it becomes an issue. How would the community address this?
You are attempting to rationalize possible advantage.
Hopefully the sentences above explain what I am trying to rationalize.
The community is saying no for the most part. To continue this is pretty insulting to be honest but the best part of all of it is that even if you believe yourself to be more cerebral than most here, in the end they won...because they simply wont engage in an unfair situation and you two are left to ACM masterbation. No one wants to watch people fly around chasing them only to run out of fuel.You wouldn't do that? Then fuel load shouldn't be an issue. There is no other explanation that is logical or rationale to make that less true.
We had 10 duels, you ran outta fuel in one of them, the other 3 players involved didn't. The LA7 is a gas guzzler, you didn't know that? You yourself admitted this wasn't a format issue, well until you saw the opportunity to make it one. In a 2v2 competition, if you are getting chased that's pretty much a failure on your part is it not? Maybe you didn't save the first fight we had. There wasn't any running, but there were many opportunities that were passed up only to clear wingmen, that takes up flight time, it makes the duel longer. No point in going around in circles here if different fuel load outs can be loaded for different rounds.
I can see it already. Hypothetically, Junky and Krup get one up on you two and then you simply load 50% fuel as opposed to their 25% and you evade until they run out of fuel. The win is yours.
Continue to try to take attention away from the fact you ran outta fuel and it was your choice to load more or less, you knew we had the same choice is that not fair?. Fulcrum only blamed himself in our 5v5 for running outta fuel. You blame it on our rules. Please answer this: Did it look like we were trying to evade in our fights? Please don't say that we did to save face, its not like we don't have the films. Or was it, to paraphrase what Triton said, that we simply did a better job of maintaining a cap on you and not slowing the fight down, kept you on the defensive until you were forced to go up to take a shot or wind up getting shot anyway.
Argue that a different way is better because of fairness...not because you want to convince people that you are providing a possible advantage to them. They don't want an advantage and don't need the excuses after the competition is over.
OK, so solve this problem, how do you make a 100% guarantee,without a shadow of a doubt, and without having to resort to asking for someone else's film that all participants take the fuel load that was agreed to ?. Take into account the following excuses that might arise: ("Oops sorry I forgot to film that fight (this might well legitimately happen, but still puts the duel in question)", "My dog at my hard drive", "No you suck I wont give you the film!") Give me your solution that doesn't include giving the participants the choice to load what they want (as you had it).
I actually feel sorry for you both. As this argument develops its occurs to me how sad it must be to be so beholden to winning that you fear losing enough to need a crutch like uneven fuel loads.
You lost 1 duel to a fuel problem, the other 7 were not. I don't fear losing, I have already lost, and what a surprise when I mentioned that Fulcrum ran outta fuel in the 'epic' first round. There wasn't a peep from you to defend the almighty established rules set forth by the community. You lose this duel and we must be fair! :old: Beholden to win? Look in the mirror bud. You lost the duel by flying so are trying to discredit it by posting. Don't try to convince people that you lost because of fuel, you lost because you got outflown. You admit to it 17 pages ago and suddenly expect me to have amnesia.
I have know people like that my whole life and they are sad, sad folks. See, winners find a way to get it done within the confines of fairness and fear little in the arena of business, sports, family and life...losers find a way to hedge their performance/results.
Not sure why you typed this. This is about a game dude, remember? The last thing I will probably ever do in my life is take life lessons from this forum rofl,
I bet you've got a set of golf pants with a Velcro pocket Kruel (you may put that in your sig)...so, how will you ever know how good you really are? Don't answer that...you never will if you hedge advantage or are even tainted with the possibility of it.
I don't play golf, more of a basketball/baseball guy myself. I have much bigger plans for my sig, you'll see! (its why I don't have one, I want it to be Epic). Again, trying to divert attention from the facts, I might not ever find out if I'm good, but now I know for a fact that you aren't better.
Saying all of that, I'd love to have a beer with you and Skyyr but not for the reasons you might think: to confirm my image of you both. I'll buy.
Good luck to you.
Whoa there man, please stop trying to imagine what I'm like, that's creepy . Keep it within the confines of the game sir, I don't swing that way. Don't buy me a drink, I'm good. :bolt:
=S=
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What happened to Skyyr anyway? It seems he bailed on his squaddie in these dueling threads.
Mini-Me "don't need no help" from Skyyr. Skyyr raised him from a pup to be an attack dog. :)
:rofl
Bottom line is the fuel load should be the same, regardless of what that is. Heck, do four fights in each plane. 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100%, then switch to the next one.
^^^^^^^^^^^ Didn't make it through his post above. Too much shouting and droning on and on and on. *headache*
:bolt:
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If the players decided to take 25% for the first fight and then decide on 50% for the next fight, there is nothing wrong with that. There is also nothing that states a duel has to be at 25% fuel, the duelers can decide on whatever fuel load they wish to take as long as both take the same amount.
ack-ack
:aok
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There's a difference between discussing it and "Hurrr Hurr Its the only way to make sure its fair!", that's not my idea of an explanation. I never said carrying equal loads isn't fair. My point is, that for some planes 25% isn't enough to have a fight that could possibly take longer, while in others it might be. My follow up question to AKAK addresses this. If you agree to a duel is the fuel load set for the entire duel or can it change each round? Our proposal simply made that a non issue.
Additionally, I did allude to the fact that even though fuel load outs might be agreed upon, there are some who might take advantage and load less. Considering the evidence of the idiocy of this thread, could you not agree that squabbles over films are sure to ensue? Our proposal simple made this a non issue.
They both have Pros and Cons.
They do allow for it because people can cheat by loading less, an advantage is possible even if disingenuous. Then it becomes a squabble for films (if they are even suspected of doing it at all). It leaves room for doubt..even the slightest bit. Why not find a way to nip that in the bud before it becomes an issue. How would the community address this?
Hopefully the sentences above explain what I am trying to rationalize.
We had 10 duels, you ran outta fuel in one of them, the other 3 players involved didn't. The LA7 is a gas guzzler, you didn't know that? You yourself admitted this wasn't a format issue, well until you saw the opportunity to make it one. In a 2v2 competition, if you are getting chased that's pretty much a failure on your part is it not? Maybe you didn't save the first fight we had. There wasn't any running, but there were many opportunities that were passed up only to clear wingmen, that takes up flight time, it makes the duel longer. No point in going around in circles here if different fuel load outs can be loaded for different rounds.
Continue to try to take attention away from the fact you ran outta fuel and it was your choice to load more or less, you knew we had the same choice is that not fair?. Fulcrum only blamed himself in our 5v5 for running outta fuel. You blame it on our rules. Please answer this: Did it look like we were trying to evade in our fights? Please don't say that we did to save face, its not like we don't have the films. Or was it, to paraphrase what Triton said, that we simply did a better job of maintaining a cap on you and not slowing the fight down, kept you on the defensive until you were forced to go up to take a shot or wind up getting shot anyway.
OK, so solve this problem, how do you make a 100% guarantee,without a shadow of a doubt, and without having to resort to asking for someone else's film that all participants take the fuel load that was agreed to ?. Take into account the following excuses that might arise: ("Oops sorry I forgot to film that fight (this might well legitimately happen, but still puts the duel in question)", "My dog at my hard drive", "No you suck I wont give you the film!") Give me your solution that doesn't include giving the participants the choice to load what they want (as you had it).
You lost 1 duel to a fuel problem, the other 7 were not. I don't fear losing, I have already lost, and what a surprise when I mentioned that Fulcrum ran outta fuel in the 'epic' first round. There wasn't a peep from you to defend the almighty established rules set forth by the community. You lose this duel and we must be fair! :old: Beholden to win? Look in the mirror bud. You lost the duel by flying so are trying to discredit it by posting. Don't try to convince people that you lost because of fuel, you lost because you got outflown. You admit to it 17 pages ago and suddenly expect me to have amnesia.
Not sure why you typed this. This is about a game dude, remember? The last thing I will probably ever do in my life is take life lessons from this forum rofl,
I don't play golf, more of a basketball/baseball guy myself. I have much bigger plans for my sig, you'll see! (its why I don't have one, I want it to be Epic). Again, trying to divert attention from the facts, I might not ever find out if I'm good, but now I know for a fact that you aren't better.
Whoa there man, please stop trying to imagine what I'm like, that's creepy . Keep it within the confines of the game sir, I don't swing that way. Don't buy me a drink, I'm good. :bolt:
=S=
All of your effort was just avoidance. You couldn't make an argument without ad hominem and then you brought our fights into it to which have no bearing on my comments at all. You're right. I don't need to buy you a beer. You provided sufficient evidence in your posts. For someone who doesn't take life lessons from a forum, you sure like believing you can give them out in one. Big plans for your sig? Who makes big plans for their sig? lmao :rofl :rofl...ah, people who land kills in the DA
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All of your effort was just avoidance. You couldn't make an argument without ad hominem and then you brought our fights into it to which have no bearing on my comments at all. You're right. I don't need to buy you a beer. You provided sufficient evidence in your posts. For someone who doesn't take life lessons from a forum, you sure like believing you can give them out in one. Big plans for your sig? Who makes big plans for their sig? lmao :rofl :rofl...ah, people who land kills in the DA
I asked a question, I provided premises to support the reasons for suggesting Pilot discretion fuel load outs, do you even know what ad hominem is? Did I try to discredit you as a person in my argument? Don't hurt yourself, the silly part is that some people think you know what you're talking about, that's sad. Our fights are part of the reason why we are having this discussion, they are relevant. Hell, this thread is about our fights isn't it?
Name one instance where I talked about life lessons in any post? Rofl you are the one that starts mentioning winning in life..see? Hypocrite. (This is technically not ad hominem because I am saying you are accusing me of giving out life lessons, while you just gave out life lessons in your previous post, calling you a Hypocrite is my conclusion with supporting premises. Hypocrite.)
Yep plans for my sig? Is that all you got?! You also suggested what I should put in there, remember? Ahh landing kills in the DA..what a SINNNNNNNNN, we do it for the lulz. Lulz.
Yet for all the dribble you didn't address a single point in my response while I responded to all of yours.
Let me know if you ever want to do another 2v2, maybe we can see what other facts you can try and twist around.
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OK, after 280 posts to this thread, I would like to get an answer on the following:
what does this community consider a "DUEL" is ?
what does this community consider "competition dogfighting 1 vs. 1" is ?
what does this community consider "competition dogfighting 2 vs. 2" is ?
what does this community consider "competition dogfighting 5 vs. 5" is ?
there is a difference, yet this has not been addressed
edit: maybe I should of posted this in the 2vs 2 thread by Changeup, but it's like everyone is jumping back and forth between the 2 threads
2nd edit due to Canspec's post below, I am adding competition to the dogfighting questions above
TC
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When I think of a duel it has always been 1v1.....anything else is a waste of time and is usually boring...... :old:
....dogfighting can be any number of aircraft against any number of aircraft..... :old:
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(http://www.picgifs.com/smileys/smileys-and-emoticons/whistling/smileys-whistling-825578.gif)
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I asked a question, I provided premises to support the reasons for suggesting Pilot discretion fuel load outs, do you even know what ad hominem is? Did I try to discredit you as a person in my argument? Don't hurt yourself, the silly part is that some people think you know what you're talking about, that's sad. Our fights are part of the reason why we are having this discussion, they are relevant. Hell, this thread is about our fights isn't it?
Name one instance where I talked about life lessons in any post? Rofl you are the one that starts mentioning winning in life..see? Hypocrite. (This is technically not ad hominem because I am saying you are accusing me of giving out life lessons, while you just gave out life lessons in your previous post, calling you a Hypocrite is my conclusion with supporting premises. Hypocrite.)
Yep plans for my sig? Is that all you got?! You also suggested what I should put in there, remember? Ahh landing kills in the DA..what a SINNNNNNNNN, we do it for the lulz. Lulz.
Yet for all the dribble you didn't address a single point in my response while I responded to all of yours.
Let me know if you ever want to do another 2v2, maybe we can see what other facts you can try and twist around.
You have fast feet, I'll give ya that, lmao. But as I said, its pretty clear who ya are.
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You have fast feet, I'll give ya that, lmao. But as I said, its pretty clear who ya are.
Still didn't address anything, you don't even care about getting 2v2 going do you? Sad.
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Poof... lol
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OK, after 280 posts to this thread, I would like to get an answer on the following:
what does this community consider a "DUEL" is ?
what does this community consider "competition dogfighting 1 vs. 1" is ?
what does this community consider "competition dogfighting 2 vs. 2" is ?
what does this community consider "competition dogfighting 5 vs. 5" is ?
there is a difference, yet this has not been addressed
edit: maybe I should of posted this in the 2vs 2 thread by Changeup, but it's like everyone is jumping back and forth between the 2 threads
2nd edit due to Canspec's post below, I am adding competition to the dogfighting questions above
TC
I will explain this tomorrow and the "cummunity" needs to listen up.
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Not Relevant to a 2v2.
It is. You're trying to muddle pilot skill (individual) with wingman skill because you are better at the latter (probably).
Did you read what I said about inference?
If you or Skyyr want to have a discussion about inference, argument, logic and the significance and use of each then let's have a separate discussion about it. I'm not going to muddle these topics together for effect.
Such as the same zealousness with which turn/stall fighters defend their own style? I'm not sure what you mean what we are seeing here?
No I don't think so. Turn / stall fighters accept BnZ as part of their daily activities and develop techniques to counter that approach. They have to. They are still killed by that approach to an inevitable percentage which varies upon their skill and concentration on that moment. Your approach is inherently more risk free, safer and easier to apply. When you assert you're superior because you killed them (once seems to do) then you are conveniently ignoring this factor and concentrating on your own awesomeness. Skyyr made one film (still with arguably griefing motivation) where he defeated an opponent through the skillful application of ACM from a disadvantage. I myself admire that one piece of flying over a thousand kills starting from an: secure the advantage approach. Your Dicta Boelke philosophy doesn't equate to a skillful reversal of fortune in the Aces High culture because when all said and done skill seems to be more admired here than score. Honestly I don't see the two of you being able to change this even with the advantage of the background cultural shift towards lower-risk higher-results.
That is the entire point of trying to have a reasonable discussion in regards to 2v2, who judges what is fair though?
It isn't difficult to establish this. You seem to apply a sports mentality. Every sport I can think of emphasizes removing unfair advantage and letting skill settle the result. As AKAK said there has been no argument from you why equal fuel loadout wouldn't work in a 2 vs 2.
As a relatively new guy,
You keep saying this. I've already asked this before and note you declined to answer. How many years did you play your previous air combat flight sim for?
I have seen behavior that is anything but honorable, I have seen hypocrisy that is just laughable. I will brag to those people if I beat them in this type of competition. I expect the same to be done to me.
Not everybody behaves this way. It is your choice to respond in kind which contributes to it, not reduces it.
If any measure of intolerance is to be mentioned..talk about the guys who ignorantly think Energy fighting is easy or cheap.
No that is incorrectly stated. You always have whiners who moan about not getting the fight that suits them hence the Runstang, turntard, 'whatever' terms and so forth. Obviously people are self-centred and want usually instant gratification in the realms of a computer game. Not too difficult to comprehend those complaints for what they are. We are discussing something more ideological.
I told you in response to a conversation with Skyyr I took the time to learn BnZ so at least I was informed about it. I don't think energy fighting or BnZ is cheap I think what is cheap is to use a more risk-reduced approach to assert you are better or more dominant / competitive <insert whatever term that best describes it> then those who do turn / stall fight or choose to fight from a disadvantage.
This is not war, this is a recreational game. Survival is optional and people have different ways of getting their fun. Your own insistence that score /kills / results is the only thing that counts is dogmatic, intolerant and bombastic. When all said and done, trying to built an empire in this tiny teacup is a rather humourous and childish endeavour. Hopefully it is that, otherwise it is a rather desperate statement of neediness.
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(http://www.picgifs.com/smileys/smileys-and-emoticons/whistling/smileys-whistling-825578.gif)
I had wondered why it was so civil in here. :noid :aok ;)
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This is not war, this is a recreational game.
Liar! :noid
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Still didn't address anything, you don't even care about getting 2v2 going do you? Sad.
There isn't any substance in your posts to address. You BBS like you fly. Circles and ropes.
I care about the competition in any form as long as all of the participants are in agreement. Look, if everyone agreed to varying fuel loads, I would probably do it anyway for one reason: those fights would be twice as fun and more challenging than any crap that goes on in the MA and because my friends here and people I respect are playing which means I'll get better.
In the end it doesn't matter what I want or don't want so its not material. Its what the collective wants and the rules that follow collectively. That's what you don't seem to get nor do you seem to want to understand. You want people to do it your way and you make heinous arguments to convince them. The problem is all these fellers KNOW the rules you'd like to see leave room for wiggle and manipulation and they aren't having any of it I guess.
Its not up to me and never has been. Personally I'd prefer the canyon fights and don't mind seeing you guys make you runs above the canyon rim and back to base because you provide numbers and numbers draw people and most people don't fly the way you do so you create targets for all of us. You at least contribute in that manner.
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Liar! :noid
Liar! Pants on fire! Stick your head, in a dryer! :old:
:lol
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Poof... lol
My fingers would have been sore if had to type poof last night.
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My fingers would have been sore if had to type poof last night.
And then in rage-child fashion, they tried smoke-checking your 12, lol. A site to behold indeed.
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My fingers would have been sore if had to type poof last night.
The sophisticated dudes have a macro for it.
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The sophisticated dudes have a macro for it.
How do you do it then? :bolt:
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How do you do it then? :bolt:
:rofl
Very carefully. :)
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The sophisticated dudes have a macro for it.
Because we have to. :lol
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(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c150/cobia38/hhh.jpg) (http://s26.photobucket.com/user/cobia38/media/hhh.jpg.html)
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OK, after 280 posts to this thread, I would like to get an answer on the following:
what does this community consider a "DUEL" is ?
what does this community consider "competition dogfighting 1 vs. 1" is ?
what does this community consider "competition dogfighting 2 vs. 2" is ?
what does this community consider "competition dogfighting 5 vs. 5" is ?
there is a difference, yet this has not been addressed
edit: maybe I should of posted this in the 2vs 2 thread by Changeup, but it's like everyone is jumping back and forth between the 2 threads
2nd edit due to Canspec's post below, I am adding competition to the dogfighting questions above
TC
Pick a plane, pick an alt, pick a fuel load,
fight your fight
enjoy your fight
win, draw, lose
Cheers guys that was fun...let's go again sometime... see you in the virtual skies
No agendas
no big ups to me's
just plain and simple community spirit..
AoM's impromptu DA duels were awesome... mind you, it was all people involved really, Bat, Krup, Bunnies, Irishone, agent, the list goes on.
Kept simple.... plane, fuel, type (1v1, 2v2, all on one) etc etc
and people were honest... no need for film except to learn
A prime example of idiocy in regard to popping the word competition in the mix.... BaldEagles dueling brackets.....The guy does an amazing thing for the community and it just gets pathetic we now have two freakin pages of rules for the simplest of things...and still people have to question a rule or how it is worded.....
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Pick a plane, pick and alt, pick a fuel load,
fight your fight
enjoy your fight
win, draw, lose
Cheers guys that was fun...let's go again sometime... see you in the virtual skies
No agendas
no big ups to me's
just plain and simple community spirit..
AoM's impromptu DA duels were awesome... mind you, it was all people involved really, Bat, Krup, Bunnies, Irishone, agent, the list goes on.
Kept simple.... plane, fuel, type (1v1, 2v2, all on one) etc etc
and people were honest... no need for film except to learn
A prime example of idiocy in regard to popping the word competition in the mix.... BaldEgales dueling brackets.....The guy does an amazing thing for the community and it just gets pathetic we now have two freakin pages of rules for the simplest of things...and still people have to question a rule or how it is worded.....
I know man, this is some level of crazy.
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I know man, this is some level of crazy.
Yo Suns, you owe me DA time for equipment rental, lol. Bring yo' donut back here.
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Yo Suns, you owe me DA time for equipment rental, lol. Bring yo' donut back here.
Ha! School just started. I wish I could.
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Ha! School just started. I wish I could.
Understood. See ya at Christmas break
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After having run into Skyyr the other night I can see why we have to have all these stupid rules for a duel. It's unfortunate...
On the other hand, he wasn't very mouthy after getting shot down repeatedly last night.
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After having run into Skyyr the other night I can see why we have to have all these stupid rules for a duel. It's unfortunate...
On the other hand, he wasn't very mouthy after getting shot down repeatedly last night.
Oh how easily we forget how badly we were beaten when it was 1v1 and 2v2 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/killsinp.php?playername=Skyyr&selectTour=LWTour175&pindex=42&kname=Stang)...
(yes, I saved the films)
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IT IS THE THREAD THAT WILL NOT DIE!
LIKE A PHOENIX IT WILL RISE AGAIN AND AGAIN FROM IT'S OWN ASHES.....REBORNNNNNNN!!!!
:lol
I find it curious how some will quickly discount a kill in the MA against them as "not indicative of greater skill". These players insist that the kill MUST be in the DA to "count"! And yet many will then turn around and imply or claim that their MA kill on a player they don't respect / dislike / hate IS indicative of "superior skill". :headscratch:
'tis a curious thing. I guess being possessed of greater "skill" allows them to make the distinction.... :old:
That....or they are just hypocites. :rofl
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IT IS THE THREAD THAT WILL NOT DIE!
LIKE A PHOENIX IT WILL RISE AGAIN AND AGAIN FROM IT'S OWN ASHES.....REBORNNNNNNN!!!!
:lol
I find it curious how some will quickly discount a kill in the MA against them as "not indicative of greater skill". These players insist that the kill MUST be in the DA to "count"! And yet many will then turn around and imply or claim that their MA kill on a player they don't respect / dislike / hate IS indicative of "superior skill". :headscratch:
'tis a curious thing. I guess being possessed of greater "skill" allows them to make the distinction.... :old:
That....or they are just hypocites. :rofl
Getting kills is a lot easier in the MA than it is dueling.
Plane types make a big difference considering the type of flying you choose. If I try to turn fight in a p47, while I can turn it well, it still simply will not out turn a spitfire if I can not get an initial shot from the first few merges because a spit has a much better loop rate and is lighter. There for the spit should be able to out turn me and win, if I get slow(which I usually do just for fun sakes) so if that spit kills me and starts claiming I PWN you, well then that's not true because I attempted to fight in a more challenging plane. If I flew a spit you'd easily get out matched. I could have ran to my advantage climb and BnZed you. But that is boring game play to me. If I beat the spit in a turn fight with my 47, then I have skills. Its not the other way around for the spit, although they still might be good sticks, its just an easier fight for the spit.
E states make a huge difference, and with that, the plane you choose can make a a huge difference in fights with one plane being able to /or started off having better E performance.
It's easy to pick kills in the MA.
I mean the MA, while you still have to know the game and be good at flying. Doesn't compare skill as good as going to the DA does. Everyone can get kills in the MA on good sticks. People get picked all of the time. There are too many variables to consider in the MA. So simply shooting someone down In the MA, while can show some skills. It doesn't have the same bearing as going to the DA.
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Getting kills is a lot easier in the MA than it is dueling.
Plane types make a big difference considering the type of flying you choose. If I try to turn fight in a p47, while I can turn it well, it still simply will not out turn a spitfire if I can not get an initial shot from the first few merges because a spit has a much better loop rate and is lighter. There for the spit should be able to out turn me and win, if I get slow(which I usually do just for fun sakes) so if that spit kills me and starts claiming I PWN you, well then that's not true because I attempted to fight in a more challenging plane. If I flew a spit you'd easily get out matched. I could have ran to my advantage climb and BnZed you. But that is boring game play to me. If I beat the spit in a turn fight with my 47, then I have skills. Its not the other way around for the spit, although they still might be good sticks, its just an easier fight for the spit.
E states make a huge difference, and with that, the plane you choose can make a a huge difference in fights with one plane being able to /or started off having better E performance.
It's easy to pick kills in the MA.
I mean the MA, while you still have to know the game and be good at flying. Doesn't compare skill as good as going to the DA does. Everyone can get kills in the MA on good sticks. People get picked all of the time. There are too many variables to consider in the MA. So simply shooting someone down In the MA, while can show some skills. It doesn't have the same bearing as going to the DA.
The irony here, of course, is that the DA is supposed to make you better in the MA; however, we have people crying that they died in the MA and they instead want to take the fight to the DA. It's quite literally backwards, from a logical reasoning standpoint.
Train in the DA all you want, but at the end of the day, no one cares about what happens there (going by generated player stats and numbers from the last 5 years or so). The MA is the battlefield. The MA is where you actually employ your "skill." If your skill is so weak that you have to resort to pulling a single player into a closed environment to demonstrate your skill, you've already lost the argument.
You sound like the fighter pilot that wins the 1v1 and 2v2 wingman matches, but gets shot down in combat and cries about how unfair the enemy was because they didn't offer him a pure 1 on 1 turnfight. Quite sad, actually.
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The irony here, of course, is that the DA is supposed to make you better in the MA; however, we have people crying that they died in the MA and they instead want to take the fight to the DA. It's quite literally backwards, from a logical reasoning standpoint.
Train in the DA all you want, but at the end of the day, no one cares about what happens there (going by generated player stats and numbers from the last 5 years or so). The MA is the battlefield. The MA is where you actually employ your "skill." If your skill is so weak that you have to resort to pulling a single player into a closed environment to demonstrate your skill, you've already lost the argument.
You sound like the fighter pilot that wins the 1v1 and 2v2 wingman matches, but gets shot down in combat and cries about how unfair the enemy was because they didn't offer him a pure 1 on 1 turnfight. Quite sad, actually.
It should make you better in the MA, but better at fighting in certain situations and air tactics. It's not gonna make you better at understanding what to do when 6 enimies are buzzing around or below you.
The MA is where the action is at. But if I wanted to prove expterise I'd probably get a lot more recognition being good in a challenging plane that gives me a hard time and makes it a bit easier for people to get kills in me (or tryto) Rather than flying a spit16 or tempest or 190D or la7 constantly which would not be a challenge, I could outurn or out dive and pick people all day. It just wouldnt be much fun for me because it would be too easy. I don't like it when it's too easy. So if I fly a harder plane and still win then I have more skill. If you win by out turning me with a spit16 then yeah it was a good fight but technically you were suppose to win in a turn fight from being in a plane that is capable of turning quickly so it's not OWNing it's just getting another kill that should have happened.
Edit: on phone, can't type well.
Its all about using the planes advantages in the MA to be successful. A p47 isn't suppose to turn fight. But I do it anyway for fun. To see if I can wim the turn fight. The MA would be boring if I played like I do in the FSO.
The DA is more about how well a person knows the plane and their skill of being able to win under even circumstances. So you see more pilot skills rather than plane advantage skills.
Tl;DR
DA shows > pilot skill <plane advantage
MA shows > plane advantage < pilot skill
This is pretty much the difference but not all the time and there are always different variables.
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Getting kills is a lot easier in the MA than it is dueling.
Plane types make a big difference considering the type of flying you choose. If I try to turn fight in a p47, while I can turn it well, it still simply will not out turn a spitfire if I can not get an initial shot from the first few merges because a spit has a much better loop rate and is lighter. There for the spit should be able to out turn me and win, if I get slow(which I usually do just for fun sakes) so if that spit kills me and starts claiming I PWN you, well then that's not true because I attempted to fight in a more challenging plane. If I flew a spit you'd easily get out matched. I could have ran to my advantage climb and BnZed you. But that is boring game play to me. If I beat the spit in a turn fight with my 47, then I have skills. Its not the other way around for the spit, although they still might be good sticks, its just an easier fight for the spit.
E states make a huge difference, and with that, the plane you choose can make a a huge difference in fights with one plane being able to /or started off having better E performance.
It's easy to pick kills in the MA.
I mean the MA, while you still have to know the game and be good at flying. Doesn't compare skill as good as going to the DA does. Everyone can get kills in the MA on good sticks. People get picked all of the time. There are too many variables to consider in the MA. So simply shooting someone down In the MA, while can show some skills. It doesn't have the same bearing as going to the DA.
Sorry, but you completely missed (or ignored) my point, so let me restate it since I think it's important given the post which "resurrected" this thread....yet again.:
These players insist that the kill MUST be in the DA to "count"! And yet many will then turn around and imply or claim that their MA kill on a player they don't respect / dislike / hate IS indicative of "superior skill". :headscratch:
If you wish to address the point of my post by all means do so...but don't run past it with blinders on repeating the same tired arguments about the DA
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Sorry, but you completely missed (or ignored) my point, so let me restate it since I think it's important given the post which "resurrected" this thread....yet again.:
If you wish to address the point of my post by all means do so...but don't run past it with blinders on repeating the same tired arguments about the DA
I can't speak for those people but simply getting kills on people in the MA is not enough to prove superiority of skill, I mean I guess they do count toward your kill count I'd imagine. But claiming greatness by picking a few people or winning with a huge E advanage or flying easy planes doesn't condone that their "skill" is necessarily better. That is why it is a lot easier to aknowledge pure skill in the DA.
It also just depends on how the fight started in the MA, what planes were chosen, were the E states even, did one player already have the 6 advantage from the start. I mean there are sooo many variables to consider in the MA fight. While some fights last down the skin and bone and go on for minutes in the MA, that could be close to a fair fight, depending on the plane choosing. Other kills you get on that person may or may not be that hard considering how the fight started. There is a fair amount of "skill" to be shown in the MA. But when you are talking about pwning a p47 in a spit16. That just ain't right. Of course the spit has the advantage from the start if it wasn't dove on initially.
So what those people are referring to was the type of fight they had in the MA vs them. Was it a real fight? Did one have advantage from the start and still lose?
I can't say why they would say that, there are too many variables in MA and who knows how the fight went. They were prob just messing with them, since they do the same to people . Now in the DA, we would be able to decide that now wouldn't we?
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These players insist that the kill MUST be in the DA to "count"! And yet many will then turn around and imply or claim that their MA kill on a player they don't respect / dislike / hate IS indicative of "superior skill".
I will address your point Fulcrum.
The people who suggest that skill should be shown in the DA have already reached the highest brackets of skill in the MA environment. They know how to use SA and tactics to stay alive indefinitely. They at some point took the step to educate themselves in 1v1 fighting without advantage. After reaching the highest brackets in this advanced skill set they went back to the MA and instead of always trying to fight from advantage they put themselves at a disadvantage and tried to win. Not through some misguided sense of honour or fair play, but simply because it was no longer challenging to win from advantage and therefore no longer fun.
Now when they are then killed by someone who has not developed their skill set enough to realise that the guy they just killed had deliberately engaged them from disadvantage (not through tactical error) it sometimes evokes the desire to teach that person a bit about skill. Especially when that guy tries to rub the victory in their face.
It takes just a few weeks or maybe a few months to learn the skills needed to be successful in the MA. It takes much longer, sometimes years, to learn the skills needed to win in an equal 1v1 fight in the DA.
Personally, I don't mind how I die in the MA. I am so utterly secure in my ability in this cartoon game that anyone who kills me can believe what they like as to the reasons why. But that is a state of mind that has taken a while to reach. The duellers who call MA people out and ask for some real duels are just further behind me on the path to inner peace. In the end, all the duellers will become secure in their ability and not feel the need to prove it by wanting to exhibit themselves in the DA to the ignorant and arrogant.
Because you are ignorant if you think that guy you killed was fighting from disadvantage because they lacked the ability or foresight to meet you in the MA on equal or advantageous footing. And you are also arrogant if you refuse to go test yourself 1v1 in the DA yet still try to profess superiority in the MA setting.
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I can't speak for those people but simply getting kills on people in the MA is not enough to prove superiority of skill, I mean I guess they do count toward your kill count I'd imagine.
Which is exactly why real fighter pilots only care about their victories in 1 on 1 training duels - their actual combat kills from 20 miles out with 2-3 wingmen don't count.
Oh, wait... it's actually the exact opposite of that.
:rofl
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If you wish to address the point of my post by all means do so...but don't run past it with blinders on repeating the same tired arguments about the DA
You're trying to assert a generalization from the odd individuals behaviour.
The irony here, of course, is that the DA is supposed to make you better in the MA; however, we have people crying that they died in the MA and they instead want to take the fight to the DA. It's quite literally backwards, from a logical reasoning standpoint.
Train in the DA all you want, but at the end of the day, no one cares about what happens there (going by generated player stats and numbers from the last 5 years or so). The MA is the battlefield. The MA is where you actually employ your "skill." If your skill is so weak that you have to resort to pulling a single player into a closed environment to demonstrate your skill, you've already lost the argument.
You sound like the fighter pilot that wins the 1v1 and 2v2 wingman matches, but gets shot down in combat and cries about how unfair the enemy was because they didn't offer him a pure 1 on 1 turnfight. Quite sad, actually.
Extensive dueling undoubtedly makes you a more skilled and capable cartoon pilot. Dying in the MA is basically inevitable when skillful flying (and actual fighting) can be so easily countered by overwhelming numbers, co-ordinated attacks, energy advantage, superior aircraft attributes and so on. The score, your kills, well no one really remembers those either except the person they apply to - because of my point in my second sentence. I think by now we do fully grasp the motif that you and your faction consider score / kills the only thing of importance. Where it all falls down really is that an awful lot of people simply don't agree with you.
Surely every cartoon pilot experiences now and again that feeling of being cleanly out-flown by an opponent. Just shown a clear pair of ACM heels. Often someone doing extraordinary things in unexpected aircraft. Or even in your own aircraft, one you think you have mastered. You never really have this feeling when you are attacked by a Dicta Boelcke-type. It's just not the same thing at all.
You guys approach AH with a sporting mentality it seems and yet Aces High isn't a good comparison to any single sport. It's essentially several sports all being performed in the same stadium. A racetrack with Formula One cars, Moto GP bikes and London Taxis all swirling around together. You drive F1 cars and are shouting at everybody else 'we are faster!'. Err yes, obviously.
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You're trying to assert a generalization from the odd individuals behaviour.
Not at all. I used the qualifier "some" several times.
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I will address your point Fulcrum.
The people who suggest that skill should be shown in the DA have already reached the highest brackets of skill in the MA environment. They know how to use SA and tactics to stay alive indefinitely. They at some point took the step to educate themselves in 1v1 fighting without advantage. After reaching the highest brackets in this advanced skill set they went back to the MA and instead of always trying to fight from advantage they put themselves at a disadvantage and tried to win. Not through some misguided sense of honour or fair play, but simply because it was no longer challenging to win from advantage and therefore no longer fun.
Now when they are then killed by someone who has not developed their skill set enough to realise that the guy they just killed had deliberately engaged them from disadvantage (not through tactical error) it sometimes evokes the desire to teach that person a bit about skill. Especially when that guy tries to rub the victory in their face.
It takes just a few weeks or maybe a few months to learn the skills needed to be successful in the MA. It takes much longer, sometimes years, to learn the skills needed to win in an equal 1v1 fight in the DA.
Personally, I don't mind how I die in the MA. I am so utterly secure in my ability in this cartoon game that anyone who kills me can believe what they like as to the reasons why. But that is a state of mind that has taken a while to reach. The duellers who call MA people out and ask for some real duels are just further behind me on the path to inner peace. In the end, all the duellers will become secure in their ability and not feel the need to prove it by wanting to exhibit themselves in the DA to the ignorant and arrogant.
Because you are ignorant if you think that guy you killed was fighting from disadvantage because they lacked the ability or foresight to meet you in the MA on equal or advantageous footing. And you are also arrogant if you refuse to go test yourself 1v1 in the DA yet still try to profess superiority in the MA setting.
Thank you for the respectful reply, batfink. I agree with many of your points. I also appreciate your "zen-like" approach to MA life. :) :aok
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Agreed on most points, except:
You guys approach AH with a sporting mentality it seems and yet Aces High isn't a good comparison to any single sport. It's essentially several sports all being performed in the same stadium. A racetrack with Formula One cars, Moto GP bikes and London Taxis all swirling around together. You drive F1 cars and are shouting at everybody else 'we are faster!'. Err yes, obviously.
The point of air combat is to kill the opponent, or at the very least shot down his aircraft, plain and simple (and dare I say, virtually undebatable). The issue then, isn't that we we can't agree on what air combat is, but rather what you think the point of the MA is, ergo my prior statement. We will only have a disagreement if you believe that the point of fighter combat, in the MA, is to shoot everyone down. Obviously, we do, therefore it logically follows that there is some disagreement that true fighter combat should take place in the MA, which brings us back to my original statement.
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Not at all. I used the qualifier "some" several times.
DmonSlyr? You did seem insistent he answered.
Agreed on most points, except:
The point of air combat is to kill the opponent, or at the very least shot down his aircraft, plain and simple (and dare I say, virtually undebatable). The issue then, isn't that we we can't agree on what air combat is, but rather what you think the point of the MA is, ergo my prior statement. We will only have a disagreement if you believe that the point of fighter combat, in the MA, is to shoot everyone down. Obviously, we do, therefore it logically follows that there is some disagreement that true fighter combat should take place in the MA, which brings us back to my original statement.
You're a bit black and white in your thinking. Only a Sith Lord thinks in such absolutes :frown: I do feel obliged to inform you that this isn't real air combat. It's a virtual environment wherein simulated aerial combat takes place. It's a game. Why is killing opponents the plain and simple objective at the exclusion of everything else?
Can't you at least acknowledge, in the face of overwhelming evidence that not that many AH players actually agree with your view of the game? Are they simply making excuses for suckage?
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DmonSlyr? You did seem insistent he answered.
I did answer.
I actually like bats right up better
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You're a bit black and white in your thinking. Only a Sith Lord thinks in such absolutes :frown: I do feel obliged to inform you that this isn't real air combat. It's a virtual environment wherein simulated aerial combat takes place. It's a game. Why is killing opponents the plain and simple objective at the exclusion of everything else?
Can't you at least acknowledge, in the face of overwhelming evidence that not that many AH players actually agree with your view of the game? Are they simply making excuses for suckage?
If we agree that this is not actual air combat, then why must ACM apply at all? Logically, anything that achieves a kill must be valid, as this is not actual air combat and therefore not bound by the rules of air combat.
Enter the hypocrisy of such arguments.
If this is air combat, then all that matters is the win. If this is not air combat, then we are free from being prejudiced to adopting any kind of rules that apply to that environment and one needn't know or exercise anything except that which they are satisfied with. Along with this line of thinking, there would be no need to prove skill, as this is not a flight sim and displays of ACM prowess would be for nothing more than personal conceit and vanity.
Strangely enough, both lines of reasoning ultimately come to the same logical conclusion - that in the end, all that matters is the final result. I'm not being black and white in any line of thinking - I'm actually pursuing it according to logic; logic supports this line of thinking fully, not only theoretically, but in practice, both in simulation and in real life.
The issue does not stem from my interpretation of it, the issue stems from those who to turn air combat into some sort of highly-unique vacuum where every element is so tightly regulated that it bears no resemblance to anything related to air combat except the facade one would experience at an airshow... and they in turn want others to accept that. These individuals, speaking objectively in the context of air combat sims, are the virtually-irrelevant minority. Might these individuals be commonplace in this game? Yes, but to the genre of air combat as a whole, they are a delusional minority.
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Not at all. If we agree that this is not actual air combat, then why must ACM apply at all? Logically, anything that achieves a kill must be valid, as this is not actual air combat and therefore not bound by the rules of air combat.
It's simulated so the emphasis on winning or losing is not life or death. Don't you see the decouple?
If this is air combat, then all that matters is the win. If this is not air combat, then we are free from being prejudiced to adopting any kind of rules that apply to that environment and one needn't know or exercise anything except that which they are satisfied with. Along with this line of thinking, there would be no need to prove skill, as this is not a flight sim and displays of ACM prowess would be for nothing more than personal conceit and vanity.
Again very black-white thinking. You're trying to contrive a logical singularity which doesn't exist. It's simulated air combat nested in a recreational activity. I know a guy here who only flies the Hurricane Mark I because his Grandfather was ground crew on one in WWII. Of course he knows ACM, applies ACM and fights. Clearly his primary goal is not to win even though I'm sure he tries to do his best to do so.
Strangely enough, both lines of reasoning ultimately come to the same logical conclusion - that in the end, all that matters is the final result. I'm not being black and white in any line of thinking - I'm actually pursuing it according to pure logic.
Aha! But what if for some the final result is not the kill? Your logic is for nothing if you can't escape the jar of your own perceptual confinement.
The issue does not stem from my interpretation of it, the issues stems from those who to turn air combat into some sort of highly-unique vacuum The issue does not stem from my interpretation of it, the issues stems from those who to turn air combat into some sort of highly-unique vacuum where every element is so tightly regulated that it bears no resemblance to anything related to air combat except the facade one would experience at an airshow... and they in turn want others to accept that. These individuals, speaking objectively in the context of air combat sims, are the virtually-irrelevant minority. Might these individuals be commonplace in this game? Yes, but to the genre of air combat as a whole, they are a disillusioned minority.
There isn't an issue at all apart from the one you are trying to sustain by asserting everyone must play your way or actually even less honestly insisted they must accept your assertions regarding results. Surely they've in fact turned it into a form of entertainment? Haven't you, since presumably you don't gain anything else from your AH activities?
We've touched on this before but what would the Aces High be like if everyone did see it your way? There'd be countless clouds of very fast aircraft jockeying for position with hardly any engagement. Doesn't sound very entertaining for me but at least all of the players would agree on why they're playing and what air combat was all about :rofl
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This is an air combat computer game where each person who pays his $7.95 decides what "air combat game" will mean during the time they decide to play in here. In the end they will then play the game the way that gives them the most enjoyment, whether they are in a squad or not......otherwise, whats the point.... :old:
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So just another thought Skyyr and Kruel if he cares to engage. Did you guys start with TnB and move through energy fighting to BnZ or did you start with BnZ in the first place?
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Strangely enough, both lines of reasoning ultimately come to the same logical conclusion - that in the end, all that matters is the final result. I'm not being black and white in any line of thinking - I'm actually pursuing it according to logic; logic supports this line of thinking fully, not only theoretically, but in practice, both in simulation and in real life.
The issue does not stem from my interpretation of it, the issues stems from those who to turn air combat into some sort of highly-unique vacuum where every element is so tightly regulated that it bears no resemblance to anything related to air combat except the facade one would experience at an airshow... and they in turn want others to accept that. These individuals, speaking objectively in the context of air combat sims, are the virtually-irrelevant minority. Might these individuals be commonplace in this game? Yes, but to the genre of air combat as a whole, they are a delusional minority.
This is true. Bat, Shida, myself and others are simply taking different routes to the same end based on our own travels in the game. The more I read this argument, the more it is true. I suspect the reason for the dichotomy is the formula below:
Ego + Actual Ability In Game / Self Image of Ability In game X Ego = Problem with getting beaten in game by any means necessary
However, Batfinks formula is because he has removed ego:
AAIG/SIAIG = 1
That is where the great ones end up....at 1
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It's simulated so the emphasis on winning or losing is not life or death. Don't you see the decouple?
You're implying that because death is not a risk, that I should treat it less seriously/professionally/what-have-you. That's not an argument, that's an excuse for subpar performance.
Again very black-white thinking. You're trying to contrive a logical singularity which doesn't exist. It's simulated air combat nested in a recreational activity. I know a guy here who only flies the Hurricane Mark I because his Grandfather was ground crew on one in WWII. Of course he knows ACM, applies ACM and fights. Clearly his primary goal is not to win even though I'm sure he tries to do his best to do so.
You're making some sort of inverse relationship between enjoyment and playing to win - there is no connection, they are separate items. Do some people associate them? Yes, but someone who has fun losing is still a loser. You are bent on associating the act of having fun with nullifying the fact of a loss, which is almost Freudian in nature. The loss may not matter to the individual, the individual may actually enjoy facing inevitable loss immensely, but it does not change the fact it is still a loss.
The point of air combat is to shoot down your opponent and not to be shot down yourself; to argue otherwise is to disagree with nearly a century of established air combat doctrine. You can certainly do other things in Aces High, but the single aspect that sets it apart is its supposed flight model fidelity to allow for realistic ACM experiences. ACM itself is entirely focused on the win.
Aha! But what if for some the final result is not the kill? Your logic is for nothing if you can't escape the jar of your own perceptual confinement.
Then those "some" are in the minority. Your stance is akin to arguing that some enjoy racing cars because they enjoy pushing the engine redline to see who lasts longer. Is that possible? Certainly... and some might have immense fun doing so, but that is not the point of racing or those who are attracted to that sport as a general whole.
Likewise, air combat is about destroying the enemy. You might enjoy it for other reasons, but you are in the minority and your views do not align with the purpose of it. By definition, air combat is one of the most logical forms of modern combat today.
There isn't an issue at all apart from the one you are trying to sustain by asserting everyone must play your way or actually even less honestly insisted they must accept your assertions regarding results. Surely they've in fact turned it into a form of entertainment? Haven't you, since presumably you don't gain anything else from your AH activities?
We've not insisted once that anyone play our way. In fact, the only person to insist that others play "their" way in this thread is Changeup, who claimed we had to submit to the community's rules if we wanted to continue our 2v2. We prefer that people play their way. If they want to turnfight in 1 on 1 fights, we'll gladly kill them all day long. You've witnessed this on several occasions now, so why you keep insisting that we are trying to get others to play "our" way is quite confusing. We don't care if anyone plays our way or not.
We've touched on this before but what would the Aces High be like if everyone did see it your way? There'd be countless clouds of very fast aircraft jockeying for position with hardly any engagement. Doesn't sound very entertaining for me but at least all of the players would agree on why they're playing and what air combat was all about :rofl
A disingenuous argument - of course the current playerbase would think that kind of environment wouldn't be very fun, if only due to the fact they are so entrenched in this idea of a 1v1 vacuum.
We flew in that environment for years... and made an absolute killing out of it. That being said, I doubt the average player here wouldn't last a month in a game that was entirely objective-based, with enabled name tags for all to see your name and current amount of held kills, e-fighters galore, and squads of players roaming around to hunt others. Personally, I miss that level of conflict and competitiveness... and would leave in a heartbeat for any game that offered it in an MMO format.
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So just another thought Skyyr and Kruel if he cares to engage. Did you guys start with TnB and move through energy fighting to BnZ or did you start with BnZ in the first place?
I started turnfighting in a Hurricane IIC. I didn't fly anything else for four years. It was only after understanding the shortcoming of turnfighting (and the mentality it cultivates) did I start learning energy fighting.
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Which is exactly why real fighter pilots only care about their victories in 1 on 1 training duels - their actual combat kills from 20 miles out with 2-3 wingmen don't count.
Oh, wait... it's actually the exact opposite of that.
:rofl
How many aces do you know? Or guys who have even one victory?
I have personally met about forty. I am personal friends with two aces and a few others who shot down three or four, along with a jet crew that nailed a Mig.
My namesake said it best: "We don't fight wars to win medals." (He also awarded victories to wingmen that were actually his. So much for your assertion.)
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Agreed on most points, except:
The point of air combat is to kill the opponent, or at the very least shot down his aircraft, plain and simple (and dare I say, virtually undebatable). The issue then, isn't that we we can't agree on what air combat is, but rather what you think the point of the MA is, ergo my prior statement. We will only have a disagreement if you believe that the point of fighter combat, in the MA, is to shoot everyone down. Obviously, we do, therefore it logically follows that there is some disagreement that true fighter combat should take place in the MA, which brings us back to my original statement.
It is far more nuanced than that, sir.
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DmonSlyr? You did seem insistent he answered.
You're a bit black and white in your thinking. Only a Sith Lord thinks in such absolutes :frown: I do feel obliged to inform you that this isn't real air combat. It's a virtual environment wherein simulated aerial combat takes place. It's a game. Why is killing opponents the plain and simple objective at the exclusion of everything else?
Can't you at least acknowledge, in the face of overwhelming evidence that not that many AH players actually agree with your view of the game? Are they simply making excuses for suckage?
I bet people would play this game far differently if one was booted for 24 hours after every death. You, sir, are correct.
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In FSO I like to play where I actually don't want to die at any givenb cost. I think ive only died once in the FSOs I've been in (gives squad credit as well for owning in the FSO) the other time was when I shot off the CV trying to land with 5 kills :bhead
But you only have 1 life in those events so it's quite intense. But like Batfink said. Sometimes we like to fly at a disadvantage just to make it a challenge. After years and years of killing, we now like to spice it up again instead of flying the same planes, the best planes, the fastest planes, being timid to stay alive because that would uterrly be boring for us.
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After years and years of killing, we now like to spice it up again instead of flying the same planes, the best planes, the fastest planes, being timid to stay alive because that would uterrly be boring for us.
That's a rather presumptuous statement. I mean, how boring was it when Kruel nailed your 109K last night, without any wingmen near him?
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That's a rather presumptuous statement. I mean, how boring was it when Kruel nailed your 109K last night, without any wingmen near him?
About as boring his and your excuses on 200 when you get flamed? :bolt:
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So just another thought Skyyr and Kruel if he cares to engage. Did you guys start with TnB and move through energy fighting to BnZ or did you start with BnZ in the first place?
I TnBed for a while, content with the results until I got owned over and over and over by E fighting, Skyyr was already doing this and after one particular frustrating day of trying to kill him, I had an epiphany, "he's actually flyitng smart." I asked him how he did it and to show me how, Rest is history.
Not sure what to mean from 'BnZ to E-fighting', it must be one of these custom AH rules, BnZ is part of E fighting, but certainly not a separate style.
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That's a rather presumptuous statement. I mean, how boring was it when Kruel nailed your 109K last night, without any wingmen near him?
He didn't kill me, he gave me an oil leak, I ditched because I didn't feel like going all the way back to land. Somehow I wasnt far enough in my territory so it gave him the kill which was lame.
Also got my share of kills on y'all too.
He made a good shot, upside down and roped, I believe. I thought I could get the rope but those 190Ds just climb and climb. I took the K4 because I wanted to fight your la7 in it. I needed a plane that could match your E states.
You will now be fighting my spit 16 since you think planes don't matter.
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I thought I could get the rope but those 190Ds just climb and climb.
Not as good as a K4 can climb, though.
I took the K4 because I wanted to fight your la7 in it.
But I wasn't in an LA-7? In fact, until this tour, the LA-7 wasn't even one of the top 3 main planes that I flew (going by kills in the aircraft).
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On the other hand, he wasn't very mouthy after getting shot down repeatedly last night.
Hard to talk when your plane blows up :D
ack-ack
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Not as good as a K4 can climb, though.
But I wasn't in an LA-7? In fact, until this tour, the LA-7 wasn't even one of the top 3 main planes that I flew (going by kills in the aircraft).
Mmm I don't know about that 190Ds can climb pretty damn well. Plus the bullets still reach D600 away. I didn't get a good read on his E state though.
You were in a la7 before, but you are kruel switched for that sortie
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Mmm I don't know about that 190Ds can climb pretty damn well. Plus the bullets still reach D600 away. I didn't get a good read on his E state though.
You were in a la7 before, but you are kruel switched for that sortie
I didn't fly an LA-7 once yesterday (the timeline in question).
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DmonSlyr? You did seem insistent he answered.
No, again you make assumptions. I simply pointed out that his response did not address the key point but rather went on a diatribe about DA vs MA. I made no judgement concerning the superiority of one over the other, my point was that some who do so have a tendency to contradict their position when it suits them.
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Not sure what to mean from 'BnZ to E-fighting', it must be one of these custom AH rules, BnZ is part of E fighting, but certainly not a separate style.
Hello Kruel,
BnZ is a repeatable move, like a rope or a reversal. It is a move that is only possible with an existing energy advantage.
Energy fighting is a style and one that is widely misunderstood. In fact, one of the most pure forms of energy fighting as it was defined by real fighter pilots was not so much in the vertical as in the horizontal. The ability to utilise a better sustained turn than your pursuing enemy to win an energy advantage from an equal or disadvantaged energy state and only then take the fight vertical to perform the killing blow.
Most people don't ever learn this in this game. Most assume energy fighting is all about vertical advantage. Many assume the simple BnZ tactic is the essence of E fighting. This is false. The essence of E fighting is in gaining the E advantage, not starting with it. I do not mean winning the E advantage on a co-alt DA style merge in the same planes. This is again just a very tiny element of E fighting and one that is only usually possible if the enemy cannot, or chooses not to, conserve all energy on the merge.
If you want to show some real skilled energy fighting then do it starting from an E disadvantage. It is possible and also extremely rewarding.
If you ever change your mind and find the courage to come and fight in the DA/TA with me I would be happy to teach you what I have so far learned about the almost lost art of E fighting. But I fear you will not, because you would hate for your 'I'm an E fighter' crutch to be pulled out from under you as you discover that you know very little about the subject you claim to be so loyally attached to and, in fact, all you are doing is boom and zoom from an existing advantage.
yours respectfully and sincerely,
batfink
S!
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Hello Kruel,
BnZ is a repeatable move, like a rope or a reversal. It is a move that is only possible with an existing energy advantage.
Energy fighting is a style and one that is widely misunderstood. In fact, one of the most pure forms of energy fighting as it was defined by real fighter pilots was not so much in the vertical as in the horizontal. The ability to utilise a better sustained turn than your pursuing enemy to win an energy advantage from an equal or disadvantaged energy state and only then take the fight vertical to perform the killing blow.
Most people don't ever learn this in this game. Most assume energy fighting is all about vertical advantage. Many assume the simple BnZ tactic is the essence of E fighting. This is false. The essence of E fighting is in gaining the E advantage, not starting with it. I do not mean winning the E advantage on a co-alt DA style merge in the same planes. This is again just a very tiny element of E fighting and one that is only usually possible if the enemy cannot, or chooses not to, conserve all energy on the merge.
If you want to show some real skilled energy fighting then do it starting from an E disadvantage. It is possible and also extremely rewarding.
If you ever change your mind and find the courage to come and fight in the DA/TA with me I would be happy to teach you what I have so far learned about the almost lost art of E fighting. But I fear you will not, because you would hate for your 'I'm an E fighter' crutch to be pulled out from under you as you discover that you know very little about the subject you claim to be so loyally attached to and, in fact, all you are doing is boom and zoom from an existing advantage.
yours respectfully and sincerely,
batfink
S!
He/they won't. But, I will fight you any time. Any chance to learn. <S>
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If, by "They", you are also referring to me you are incorrect. I will fight you or anyone in the DA. Does not matter to me if I win or lose...I have fun regardless and don't care either way.
I could also correct you on the other members of "They", but I'll leave that to those individuals to discuss.
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Oh how easily we forget how badly we were beaten when it was 1v1 and 2v2 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/killsinp.php?playername=Skyyr&selectTour=LWTour175&pindex=42&kname=Stang)...
(yes, I saved the films)
Please post.
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Does not matter to me if I win or lose...I have fun regardless and don't care either way.
Good to have a fellow spirit, <S>.
- oldman
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This game reminds me of men's beer league Hockey. For the most part its filled with guys who enjoy the game for what it is and can grab a drink with each other afterwards.
Than there are those guys who throw vicious body checks, start fights and act as if winning at all cost in what is a recreational/amateur level is a meaningful accomplishment.
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This game reminds me of men's beer league Hockey. For the most part its filled with guys who enjoy the game for what it is and can grab a drink with each other afterwards.
Than there are those guys who throw vicious body checks, start fights and act as if winning at all cost in what is a recreational/amateur level is a meaningful accomplishment.
Usually the guy who can barely skate who's acting like NHL scouts are mixed in 5 or 6 people in the stands. Great analogy :rofl
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Hello Kruel,
BnZ is a repeatable move, like a rope or a reversal. It is a move that is only possible with an existing energy advantage.
Energy fighting is a style and one that is widely misunderstood. In fact, one of the most pure forms of energy fighting as it was defined by real fighter pilots was not so much in the vertical as in the horizontal. The ability to utilise a better sustained turn than your pursuing enemy to win an energy advantage from an equal or disadvantaged energy state and only then take the fight vertical to perform the killing blow.
Most people don't ever learn this in this game. Most assume energy fighting is all about vertical advantage. Many assume the simple BnZ tactic is the essence of E fighting. This is false. The essence of E fighting is in gaining the E advantage, not starting with it. I do not mean winning the E advantage on a co-alt DA style merge in the same planes. This is again just a very tiny element of E fighting and one that is only usually possible if the enemy cannot, or chooses not to, conserve all energy on the merge.
If you want to show some real skilled energy fighting then do it starting from an E disadvantage. It is possible and also extremely rewarding.
If you ever change your mind and find the courage to come and fight in the DA/TA with me I would be happy to teach you what I have so far learned about the almost lost art of E fighting. But I fear you will not, because you would hate for your 'I'm an E fighter' crutch to be pulled out from under you as you discover that you know very little about the subject you claim to be so loyally attached to and, in fact, all you are doing is boom and zoom from an existing advantage.
yours respectfully and sincerely,
batfink
S!
He would learn a lot...I learned a lot just watching films of you beating the Crap out of me.
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No, again you make assumptions. I simply pointed out that his response did not address the key point but rather went on a diatribe about DA vs MA. I made no judgement concerning the superiority of one over the other, my point was that some who do so have a tendency to contradict their position when it suits them.
As a rule I do make a lot of assumptions and inferences that's true but in this case it was a simple question. Some yes. Doesn't result in any epiphany regarding ACM and approaches still.
You're implying that because death is not a risk, that I should treat it less seriously/professionally/what-have-you. That's not an argument, that's an excuse for subpar performance.
Only if you agree in the first place with your criteria of how the game should / must be played :D
You're making some sort of inverse relationship between enjoyment and playing to win - there is no connection, they are separate items. Do some people associate them? Yes, but someone who has fun losing is still a loser. You are bent on associating the act of having fun with nullifying the fact of a loss, which is almost Freudian in nature. The loss may not matter to the individual, the individual may actually enjoy facing inevitable loss immensely, but it does not change the fact it is still a loss.
Not at all. Evidently some find playing to win enjoyable and the point and others find pitching their skill against more advantageous positions, aircraft and numbers enjoyable and the point. You completely fail to see that others differ by choice and label them as excuse-making weirdos. 'Loser' I mean really bud, if you zoom out from Aces High / combat flight sims for a moment doesn't using that label inside the confines of a computer game take on a relatively ironic and childish meaning? :rofl Again your argument only holds within your rigid view of the game's purpose.
The point of air combat is to shoot down your opponent and not to be shot down yourself; to argue otherwise is to disagree with nearly a century of established air combat doctrine. You can certainly do other things in Aces High, but the single aspect that sets it apart is its supposed flight model fidelity to allow for realistic ACM experiences. ACM itself is entirely focused on the win.
To extend the argument to its absurd conclusion you should leave the game after you're shot down because you are dead, no? So you accept respawning as acceptably realistic?
Please explain your losses. Are those sub-par performances on your part? Did you fail to fly correctly or push the risk-reward aspect a bit too much? Was your chain of decisions flawed and dare I say it: human? When you are beaten and are 'the loser' do you acknowledge and give credit to the 'winner' because by your standards he is correct both ideologically and in all round superiority? I mean it can't be the plane or the energy states or the circumstances by your own definition. You never complain at the fact or circumstances of your own demise then, on channel 200 say? You never say, for instance: bah, I've killed you three times to your killing me once?
We've not insisted once that anyone play our way.
Well perhaps I worded that part poorly. You do however insist that regardless of how anyone else plays only your criteria is the one that really matters. In saying that playing your way is the only way to do so you seem to be blind to the variety of aircraft you shoot down and the tactics they are employing while you do so.
...who claimed we had to submit to the community's rules if we wanted to continue our 2v2. We prefer that people play their way. If they want to turnfight in 1 on 1 fights, we'll gladly kill them all day long. You've witnessed this on several occasions now, so why you keep insisting that we are trying to get others to play "our" way is quite confusing. We don't care if anyone plays our way or not.
The objection to the 2 vs 2 was the fuel load which was considered a 'gameable' variable. It wasn't a community discrimination but rather a reasonable interaction one.
Ah so I'm very interested to hear that both you and Kruel did start with turn fighting and presumably were reasonably adept at it. Thank you both for answering that question. Again you will get no argument from me that applying BnZ tactics in a Dicta Boelcke framework is more intelligent, efficient and productive in terms of risk / returns. Any student of ACM will notice the historical shift in both tactics and aircraft design to that paradigm from TnB. So yes if your agenda is to kill everyone and win all of the time then that would be a sensible choice. But it's not quite the point is it? You practice your branch of ACM in an effectively dead compartment of air combat (simulated, sniff). It's of absolutely no practical use at all outside of simulated (sniff) WWII air combat. Turning and burning in a Hurricane is as relevant to the real world as your 'making an absolute killing' is.
I'm sorry you lost your other game which was entirely objective-based and purely competitive. If Aces High is the closest thing available then you'll just have to adapt and extract your enjoyment in your own way. Bruv119 for example and many others seem to have managed to do so. Trying to alter the prevailing culture isn't a very productive approach I should say. I don't think you've convinced anyone so far that you are right. More likely presented yourselves as a rather extreme minority within a minority within a minority it seems to me. You are still welcome here however.
Not sure what to mean from 'BnZ to E-fighting', it must be one of these custom AH rules, BnZ is part of E fighting, but certainly not a separate style.
Not as good as a K4 can climb, though.
As Batfink's excellent post illustrates BnZ is a subset of energy fighting and distinct enough to be categorized separately even in aircraft design terms. A K-4 will out-climb a D-9 in a sustained climb but not in a zoom climb. Differences in energy fighting especially announces in relative building / retaining. This isn't peculiar to the AH culture, it's a matter of historical evolution and design.
Just one final and humorous / ironic observation: you do know how Boelcke died, right?
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Usually the guy who can barely skate who's acting like NHL scouts are mixed in 5 or 6 people in the stands. Great analogy :rofl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuUju1IzLXM
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If, by "They", you are also referring to me ...
I was not.
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As a rule I do make a lot of assumptions and inferences that's true but in this case it was a simple question. Some yes. Doesn't result in any epiphany regarding ACM and approaches still.
Nrshida:
I did not claim my post was an epiphany concerning ACM. It's an observation about behaviors, which truth be told aligns with some of batfink's observations. So again, you are making assumptions about my post, but I won't quibble further about it.
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But, I will fight you any time. Any chance to learn. <S>
:aok
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Shida, just leave him... he has no clue about what is happening or what youre trying to explain, let it be any clear and simple.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuUju1IzLXM
The greatest :rofl
My team was the Chiefs. We were awful. :D
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I just noticed The Damned are ranked #1 squad in fighter this tour, this must mean that they are now the best. :rock
How the weak shall bow before the mighty.
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I just noticed The Damned are ranked #1 squad in fighter this tour, this must mean that they are now the best. :rock
How the weak shall bow before the mighty.
Awesome. How much does that pay again?
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I just noticed The Damned are ranked #1 squad in fighter this tour, this must mean that they are now the best. :rock
How the weak shall bow before the mighty.
You wanna have a go eh?
Are we talking about hockey?
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I just noticed The Damned are ranked #1 squad in fighter this tour, this must mean that they are now the best. :rock
How the weak shall bow before the mighty.
Snailman is the #1 Fighter Squadron all by his lonesome. Skyyr makes up half....of the #2.
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Just let this damned thread die already. (No pun intended)
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Just let this damned thread die already. (No pun intended)
:) :aok
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I just noticed The Damned are ranked #1 squad in fighter this tour, this must mean that they are now the best. :rock
How the weak shall bow before the mighty.
Bruv, you know this is just a by-product of how we play, you, of all people should know that. By the way, we might have some familiar faces joining us soon :)
Then again, I don't think we will ever be #1 overall, since some of us refuse to fly bombers and/or GV.
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Snailman is the #1 Fighter Squadron all by his lonesome. Skyyr makes up half....of the #2.
And you make up none.
How can one person be a squadron? This needs to be fixed! :old:
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How can one person be a squadron?
There are a lot of different voices in my head...I am many. :old:
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Let the record show that no member of The Damned brought up score or ranking, until Bruv mentioned it. :old:
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There are a lot of different voices in my head...I am many. :old:
Lol, should pay for many accounts then! <3
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And you make up none.
How can one person be a squadron? This needs to be fixed! :old:
Yep. My squadron is #1 overall. Not some "one man and his mini-me" sideshow.
:aok
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Yep. My squadron is #1 overall. Not some "one man and his mini-me" sideshow.
:aok
All thanks to you! Lol, their Fighter Ranking would probably be higher if you left.
I already saw ChangeUp telling you to .Shhhh on 200, at least we have that in common, lol
Wonder how much patience Sfox will have with you if you keep making a fool of yourself.
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All thanks to you! Lol, their Fighter Ranking would probably be higher if you left.
I already saw ChangeUp telling you to .Shhhh on 200, at least we have that in common, lol
Wonder how much patience Sfox will have with you if you keep making a fool of yourself.
Says the AH expert on making a fool of himself. Lol
SFox is a great guy. I am not worried and I doubt he is either. He would just laugh.
(We play for fun. You should try it sometime. You might get better.)
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Says the mouthiest fool on this board. Lol
SFox is a great guy. I am not worried in the least. He would just laugh.
(We play for fun. You should try it sometime. You might get better.)
Dude, you have 1330 posts to my 260, I joined the board a month after you did, hello?
we were great guys to you at one point, a lot of your posts are relentlessly defending us. Remember?
I'm going to start calling you Pancake, because you flip flop so much.
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Dude, you have 1330 posts to my 260, I joined the board a month after you did, hello?
we were great guys to you at one point, a lot of your posts are relentlessly defending us. Remember?
I'm going to start calling you Pancake, because you flip flop so much.
It is all about your quality--or lack thereof. Changeup et al have been making you tap dance and it is hilarious. Sad actually. You need to listen to my favorite Aussie. Fight more. Talk less.
I defended you out of loyalty, but calling you "great" was clearly an exaggeration. I retract the statements in question.
I will have to go look at some chat logs of yours and Skyyr's. Talk about flip flops. Lol
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Ok...stop. Who keeps making batches of points koolaide?
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Let the record show that no member of The Damned brought up score or ranking, until Bruv mentioned it. :old:
Funny. The very first post in this thread shows you mentioning a score.
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Funny. The very first post in this thread shows you mentioning a score.
Lol, the scores and ranking page, keep up.
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And now for something completely different...........
.....Kudos to The Damned for fighting last night without alt advantage.....both Kruel and Skyyr were having at it in a different fashion. I think Below was there too but I didn't run across him........Skyyr even took off from a semi capped base to fight low in a P51, so I know that didn't improve his score. I did bnz and then ram Kruel with his engine out.....oops, didn't mean too(the ram part)..but I think you did get the kill when I hit the tree (I don't follow 200 but I am sure it was lively after that)......
.....Personally I don't think they are doing anything different than all of us do or have done at one time or another.....just give them a fight whenever you see them win or lose and ignore the rest.....
...........Now back to your regular thread programming
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And now for something completely different...........
.....Kudos to The Damned for fighting last night without alt advantage.....both Kruel and Skyyr were having at it in a different fashion. I think Below was there too but I didn't run across him........Skyyr even took off from a semi capped base to fight low in a P51, so I know that didn't improve his score. I did bnz and then ram Kruel with his engine out.....oops, didn't mean too(the ram part)..but I think you did get the kill when I hit the tree (I don't follow 200 but I am sure it was lively after that)......
.....Personally I don't think they are doing anything different than all of us do or have done at one time or another.....just give them a fight whenever you see them win or lose and ignore the rest.....
...........Now back to your regular thread programming
:aok
'twas fun as usual. :salute
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Lol, should pay for many accounts then! <3
But then he would be shading! :old:
:huh
At least I think he would.... :headscratch:
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And now for something completely different...........
.....Kudos to The Damned for fighting last night without alt advantage.....both Kruel and Skyyr were having at it in a different fashion. I think Below was there too but I didn't run across him........Skyyr even took off from a semi capped base to fight low in a P51, so I know that didn't improve his score. I did bnz and then ram Kruel with his engine out.....oops, didn't mean too(the ram part)..but I think you did get the kill when I hit the tree (I don't follow 200 but I am sure it was lively after that)......
.....Personally I don't think they are doing anything different than all of us do or have done at one time or another.....just give them a fight whenever you see them win or lose and ignore the rest.....
...........Now back to your regular thread programming
:salute was fun, lol I was out of ammo and fuel was pretty much gliding, I did get the kill though
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Snailman is the #1 Fighter Squadron all by his lonesome. Skyyr makes up half....of the #2.
I was number one in last October, all alone, only flying the D9, turning with every single con i ran into.
Does this mean that i am the best Dora Driver ever?
For the God's sake, NO!
Score means nothing.
:salute
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We actually agree on something! :old:
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U7_iNIgGjc
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I just noticed The Damned are ranked #1 squad in fighter this tour, this must mean that they are now the best. :rock
How the weak shall bow before the mighty.
oh crap i better cancel my account now that they achieved the highest of all highs in cartoon land.......... who are they again?
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oh crap i better cancel my account now that they achieved the highest of all highs in cartoon land.......... who are they again?
:rofl :aok
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We need a face palm emoticon...
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We need a face palm emoticon...
(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/hand-gestures/facepalm-smiley-emoticon.gif) (http://www.sherv.net/)
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Too long. Didn't read any of this crap. You guys lost 8-2 against a couple of no-names? Damn C-Listers... ;)
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Hello Kruel,
BnZ is a repeatable move, like a rope or a reversal. It is a move that is only possible with an existing energy advantage.
Energy fighting is a style and one that is widely misunderstood. In fact, one of the most pure forms of energy fighting as it was defined by real fighter pilots was not so much in the vertical as in the horizontal. The ability to utilise a better sustained turn than your pursuing enemy to win an energy advantage from an equal or disadvantaged energy state and only then take the fight vertical to perform the killing blow.
Most people don't ever learn this in this game. Most assume energy fighting is all about vertical advantage. Many assume the simple BnZ tactic is the essence of E fighting. This is false. The essence of E fighting is in gaining the E advantage, not starting with it. I do not mean winning the E advantage on a co-alt DA style merge in the same planes. This is again just a very tiny element of E fighting and one that is only usually possible if the enemy cannot, or chooses not to, conserve all energy on the merge.
If you want to show some real skilled energy fighting then do it starting from an E disadvantage. It is possible and also extremely rewarding.
If you ever change your mind and find the courage to come and fight in the DA/TA with me I would be happy to teach you what I have so far learned about the almost lost art of E fighting. But I fear you will not, because you would hate for your 'I'm an E fighter' crutch to be pulled out from under you as you discover that you know very little about the subject you claim to be so loyally attached to and, in fact, all you are doing is boom and zoom from an existing advantage.
yours respectfully and sincerely,
batfink
S!
Mr. batfink, I do like the way you think sir.
In my opinion, everyone has their own opinion of 'Air Combat Energy Management'. I would like to try to simplify to those that may have not understood your point. Energy Management is simply using your opponents energy to their disadvantage and (more importantly) your advantage. First step would be to gain the energy advantage in a position where your opponent cannot resolve a solution to shoot. Next would be to maintain energy management advantage by continuing your efforts to position your opponent in a disadvantage until a mistake is made for you to capitalize on it.
This can be done via Boom and Zoom, turn fighting (which ultimately would turn into stall fighting), maintaining energy knowing your opponents aircraft cannot based on specifics below and so forth.
There are many factors if you'd like to get detailed, which can be found at this link, http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a092974.pdf. Below are some examples.
*Aircrafts
weight (top, middle, bottom heavy?)
turn-rate
climb-rate
speed velocity
turn/climb-rate + velocity
damage/undamaged (location of damage)
drag
position
etc..
I look forward to meeting you in the game to learn more from you sir. I love and miss these discussions since I consider myself pure energy fighter, which in my opinion is used and portrayed most in the 1v1 formats.
=s=
Admiral
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Mr. batfink, I do like the way you think sir.
In my opinion, everyone has their own opinion of 'Air Combat Energy Management'. I would like to try to simplify to those that may have not understood your point. Energy Management is simply using your opponents energy to their disadvantage and (more importantly) your advantage. First step would be to gain the energy advantage in a position where your opponent cannot resolve a solution to shoot. Next would be to maintain energy management advantage by continuing your efforts to position your opponent in a disadvantage until a mistake is made for you to capitalize on it.
This can be done via Boom and Zoom, turn fighting (which ultimately would turn into stall fighting), maintaining energy knowing your opponents aircraft cannot based on specifics below and so forth.
There are many factors if you'd like to get detailed, which can be found at this link, http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a092974.pdf. Below are some examples.
*Aircrafts
weight (top, middle, bottom heavy?)
turn-rate
climb-rate
speed velocity
turn/climb-rate + velocity
damage/undamaged (location of damage)
drag
position
etc..
I look forward to meeting you in the game to learn more from you sir. I love and miss these discussions since I consider myself pure energy fighter, which in my opinion is used and portrayed most in the 1v1 formats.
=s=
Admiral
There's a difference between E fighting in a slower plane and being successful, compared to flying the fastest planes in the game and claiming your a good E fighter because you can out rope planes.
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There's a difference between E fighting in a slower plane and being successful, compared to flying the fastest planes in the game and claiming your a good E fighter because you can out rope planes.
I like you by your avatar alone!
=s=
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I like you by your avatar alone!
=s=
One of the nicest guys in the game. Fierce competitor, too. Wish I had a quarter of his skill.
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You're mistaken sir, I did it when we lost as well. No matter the result, I will post.
Even I have no issue with this thread.
Not that it would matter if I did.
Just stating my opinion that there is nothing improper or dweebish in it given the circumstances for it
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There's a difference between E fighting in a slower plane and being successful, compared to flying the fastest planes in the game and claiming your a good E fighter because you can out rope planes.
There is a certain level of satisfaction in these situations. My favorite move against a faster aircraft is to lure them in to commit to a shot. Once you've allowed them to commit you'd maintain your energy and position yourself correctly and trick them to overshoot you, while draining their energy. This can be done by a number of different maneuvers, but my favorite is a steady long turn and wide barrel role as they close in for a shot and then pass right by me as wave through my cockpit and eventually line them up for a shot. Depending on which aircraft they are using, I will go for its most vulnerable spot (ie: P38 - I aim for the tail bar) . I've used this in both Fighter Ace and War Thunder and look forward to learning it here.
I look forward to our first encounter, which by the looks of it will be one to remember.
=s=
Admiral
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There is a certain level of satisfaction in these situations. My favorite move against a faster aircraft is to lure them in to commit to a shot. Once you've allowed them to commit you'd maintain your energy and position yourself correctly and trick them to overshoot you, while draining their energy. This can be done by a number of different maneuvers, but my favorite is a steady long turn and wide barrel role as they close in for a shot and then pass right by me as wave through my cockpit and eventually line them up for a shot. Depending on which aircraft they are using, I will go for its most vulnerable spot (ie: P38 - I aim for the tail bar) . I've used this in both Fighter Ace and War Thunder and look forward to learning it here.
I look forward to our first encounter, which by the looks of it will be one to remember.
=s=
Admiral
Violator is a great stick. Kast won't fight him in the DA. Prefers to run his mouth on 200 instead--something he claims brings disgrace upon The Damned/Darned/Dorked/D o u ched.
You, Admiral, are better off remaining FORMER Damned. A couple of prior FA guys who weren't DMD got pulled into that mess and now they are tainted. I would recommend you be your own man. You and the other two guys, F and B, should start your own squadron. It would be a group of classy, chivalrous guys worthy of respect. <S>
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Shaking my head...
Not at the thread, but at the silly replies.
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Shaking my head...
Not at the thread, but at the silly replies.
Just like you did over my skins being "too clean" or some such bullshdt I still salute your efforts. Hmmmmm.....
Btw, a thread = replies. Just sayin'.
I may have missed your point, bro. No hate here. *salute*
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Just like you did over my skins being "too clean" or some such bullshdt I still salute your efforts. Hmmmmm.....
Btw, a thread = replies. Just sayin'.
I may have missed your point, bro. No hate here. *salute*
:rolleyes:
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:rolleyes:
F u man. I love ya! :)
Get that Mustang in the game dude. :)
:salute
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(http://crayfisher.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/demotivational-posters-ex-girlfriend.jpg?w=640)
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See Rule #4
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(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/0b/0b4478044be1d5a0fa9548d609001af738ac6ec5aae76305693ce61dc09bbf7f.jpg)
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(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/0b/0b4478044be1d5a0fa9548d609001af738ac6ec5aae76305693ce61dc09bbf7f.jpg)
(http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/48d/a18/184/resized/xzibit-meme-generator-yo-dawg-i-herd-yo-liked-yo-dawgs-so-yo-can-yo-dawg-while-yo-yo-dawg-8fa370.jpg)
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Vraciu - you are starting to embody everything I dislike about the Wide World Web. Your hatred of my friend is frequently vented and it is simply not a good thing to see. Let it go.
Use the gift of the Internet for positive things.
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Violator is a great stick. Kast won't fight him in the DA. Prefers to run his mouth on 200 instead--something he claims brings disgrace upon The Damned/Darned/Dorked/D o u ched.
You, Admiral, are better off remaining FORMER Damned. A couple of prior FA guys who weren't DMD got pulled into that mess and now they are tainted. I would recommend you be your own man. You and the other two guys, F and B, should start your own squadron. It would be a group of classy, chivalrous guys worthy of respect. <S>
hmm... I take this post as you have had too much to drink ( or smoke ) and can not hold your own with most...
nuff said...
edit: I honestly did start typing around 5 AM... i'm just so dang slow after an all nighter.....
you're better than this Vraciu
TC
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See Rule #4
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Its so nice to know that youngsters can view things like this on the forums,no wonder #s are falling :rolleyes:
Have you SEEN your sig?
:D
I do fully agree with you though. And hitech can't edit out every filter go around so stuff like this and so much more remains.
On the upside, I really think most who play are not on the forums. Especially when you remove the number on the forums who don't play, which further decreases the percentage of forum to player.
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There is a certain level of satisfaction in these situations. My favorite move against a faster aircraft is to lure them in to commit to a shot. Once you've allowed them to commit you'd maintain your energy and position yourself correctly and trick them to overshoot you, while draining their energy. This can be done by a number of different maneuvers, but my favorite is a steady long turn and wide barrel role as they close in for a shot and then pass right by me as wave through my cockpit and eventually line them up for a shot. Depending on which aircraft they are using, I will go for its most vulnerable spot (ie: P38 - I aim for the tail bar) . I've used this in both Fighter Ace and War Thunder and look forward to learning it here.
I look forward to our first encounter, which by the looks of it will be one to remember.
=s=
Admiral
Ah yes! Which so happens to be my favorite maneuver. I typically fly more defensive as I don't like to fly the fastest planes, so this way i can lure opponents in. You seem pretty confident in your abilities. Glad to have ya to the game and it's always fun to have to some good fights. I'm assuming it may take you a minute to learn some of the stall characteristics of the planes in AH, but you seem like someone who is passionate about flying and ACM. So I kook forward to our encounters as well and hope you enjoy AH more than the others.
:salute
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Its so nice to know that youngsters can view things like this on the forums,no wonder #s are falling :rolleyes:
Some people just can't handle reality. It's pretty sad when people have to resort to personal attacks when they get mad in a game. That's why he was kicked.
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I'm better off staying above this kind of stuff but, foolishly, I went back and read the little diarrhea screed that triggered this reply. All I can say is that anyone who personalized this game / sport to such a level that he /she /it feels some need to lash out in this fashion is not fully valid. Ie, such a person needs to get a real life. In so doing, they may then be able to place this game / sport in proper perspective.
Let me put it another way: the odds of any individual here remembering the score, in a given tour, of any other individual are significantly less than the odds of all individuals here remembering who behaved like a real jack wagon.
Worst part: it's just so damn unprofessional...
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Cool Idea. Can I play? :salute
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Cool Idea. Can I play? :salute
Of course you can. Grab a wingman and hit either myself or Kruel up in-game. If you know of others who would like to compete, inform them too!
:salute
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Me and Drbone would like to play.....
Or Me and NathBDP aswell
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Me and Drbone would like to play.....
Or Me and NathBDP aswell
Can I buy an "I" please.
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Shoot me a PM so we can coordinate a time, looking foward to it. :salute
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Can I buy an "I" please.
shut up :rofl
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Joa and Vink pm sent
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I've been really busy for about a month. I will find a partner and hook up with fellas. Looks like a lot of fun. :salute
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I want in on some of this action . PM me in game tonight .
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I want in on some of this action . PM me in game tonight .
In game name?
Cc Vink w/b let me know.
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i still would like to fight lol, haven't been in like 5-6 weeks
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Same set a time and place me and Joachim will be more than happy to make an appearance.
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Same set a time and place me and Joachim will be more than happy to make an appearance.
Woa! Long time no see, Bone!! You back and subbed up?!
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Woa! Long time no see, Bone!! You back and subbed up?!
Why the hell did you bring this damn thread back to life... :headscratch:
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Why the hell did you bring this damn thread back to life... :headscratch:
(https://33.media.tumblr.com/6218d375d4a0b76acb439fe076854eaf/tumblr_ndknvp4FHy1sk0xezo1_500.gif)
(http://www.smiley-faces.org/smiley-faces/smiley-face-whistle-2.gif)
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Why the hell did you bring this damn thread back to life... :headscratch:
My parents never established boundaries.
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In game name?
Cc Vink w/b let me know.
I be on tonight . In game same ( Flench)