Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Mighty1 on August 30, 2001, 09:54:00 AM
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I still can't see paying that kind of money for a game that has a perk system like AH has.
I tried coming back but lost interest when I realised I had no perk points and I couldn't fly all the AC. It may not seem like a big deal to the people who gained all their points before the system was active (perk bugs were still there) but to new people the perk system is just unfair.
What is going to happen when everyone gets the plane they hate the most perked? We will still see them but they will be flown by the pilots who have been around the longest. The new people will have to fly the crap planes and just be targets. Real fun!
I would rather see a rolling plane set that was fair to everyone than the Perk system that is only fair to the Old timers.
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Honestly how many "perk planes "do you see flying at any given session:not many.
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But we have PADLOCK!!!!
Westy
(tosses more chum on the water to help Mighty1 who's getting no strikes)
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The perk planes aren't all that great. I have some perks saved up, but have no intention of useing them. The Ta-152 is practically useless in the MA. The Ar-234 is neat, but not hugely useful. The Tempest is a such great plane all around, that I don't use it because I'd like to improve my ACM. A plane that out performs others to such a degree just isn't the way to obtain that goal.
You rarely see perks planes in the MA. I haven't seen a Tempest or a Ta-152 in I don't know how long. It was only yesterday that I saw a pair of Arado's making a run for the first time in months.
In short, not having perk points doesn't put you at any real disadvantage, and having them doesn't put you at any real advantage. It's simply kind of nice to occasionally fly something "spiffy" like a perk plane, but after the novelty wears off, you don't really care to fly them all the time, or in my case, fly them more than once in a great while. :)
Salute,
IC
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This is just whineing mighty
The hog c perk worked fine. Ya there are lots of spits and nikis and p51s up now but at least that splits it 3 ways.
I restarted my account a week ago after a month holiday and lost over 1000 perk points. big deal. I got enough for a hog c in the first day. I think I have enough for a 152 already.
guess what. The old timers you talk about are mostly sitting on 1000s of perk points cause they like to fly p47s and hellcats and 109g6s and La7s etc etc. I think the only time that perk points get used by an assassin is when someone rolls a mission with all tempests or 152s..
I think your off base. The rolling plane set is not fair to someone who gets his biggest enjoyment from flying the pony D. It is unnecesarily punishing him.
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<Hands over the award for the most pathetic topic of the day>
In the two weeks ive been back ive seen 2 perk planes in the skyes, one was ta152 and the other an arado! lol! :)
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I believe that you misunderstand how the perk system works, migthy1.
Yesterday I finally had earned enough perks to take the Tempest for a spin(70 perks), I flew a couble of sorties (man I love that plane), then I met a typhoon HO at 10K with both our guns blazing, I got him and he got me.
So there I lost my hard earned 70 perks, because when you loose your perk plane you loose all the perks you had to pay for it, now I has around 1,74 perkpoints. :(
So I guess it is about 3 or 4 weeks until I have earned enough points to take the Tempest for another ride.
So it doesent matter how long you have been in this game, you get killed in you perkplane, you start all over from point zero again.
But this way you really fly careful when you finally have afforded your perk ride, you shure dont want to throw it away.(At least not when you have to work like a dog to get them, like me.)
I actually think the perk points is a brilliant idea. (Even thoug I think the Tempest is to expencive ;)).
Man I love the Tempest.(Did I mention that?) ;)
The 332 "VIKING" squadron
(http://www.lasse.as/332.bmp)
Lasse
[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: lasse ]
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I think this is a valid topic, so to those of you who call his post a "whine" are really missing the point.
A few of my friends have made their way back to Aces High since the price was reduced and are disappointed that the Perk System is still in place. It should, if its going to be there, be a lot less expensive than it is. I just do not think its fair that the folks who play for an hour or so on the weekends can't enjoy taking an Arado, Ta-152 or Tempest into enemy turf and see how they work out in the MA. 70 perks takes a long time to accumulate.
If HTC doesn't want to see these planes fly often and perked them as high as they did, why'd they bother develop them? The Arado is a slug to get to alt, has a low bomb load, and takes about as much time to slow and land as a U2. Hardly a threat if it was available to the masses. The Ta-152 is a finicky bird that excels up high. Since all the fights I've seen are well under 10k, I just do not see many. And the Tempest is an amazing aircraft that rates up there with the P51 in terms of speed and manueverability. Most of the Tempests I've encountered have made a fast pass at me, then ran home. Apparently the pilot didnt want to loose their perks and opted to exit the fight and bring his wounded bird home.
While I understand the balance they are striving for in the Main Arena, I think its too prohibitive for the novices or folks who have less time than people like me, who tend to log 2 hours a night in the arenas. People thought the arena would be polluted with Arados everywhere when it was introduced. It hasn't. At least cut the points required dramatically so its within reach. 20 perks versus the current 70 and such. Again, just ideas that have been said over and over again.
This is a tough crowd to appease. Lower the perks and some cry foul, claiming the sky will fall and we'll be over run in Tempests. Keep them where they are and more and more newbies grow frustrated they do not have the time or experience to gain credits to fly these birds in action. I'd suggest a compromise so that it still requires experience (points) to move up to a perk plane, but not the costs we have now.
In an Arena full of La7s, N1ks and Spit 9s, I'm all for some variety...I'd love to see some Tempests and Ta's flying around more frequently.
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Think on this lasse: Why should you or anyone for that matter have free access to a plane that has a performance that overwhelms almost the entire planeset?
You like the Tempest. Would you like to have everyone have free access to it? If so, all you would see in the arena would be Tempests, 'cause only 1 or 2 other planes in the set can actually catch it (and I think that is why you love the Tempest, you are immune to other planes if you stay fast). Me262 will be on next version. What will your Tempest be like then when you have the great majority of players flying me-262? HTC wouldve wasted their efforts modeling the C202 and Zero if people are running around in the Me262 all the time.
"Yesterday I finally had earned enough perks to take the Tempest for a spin(70 perks), I flew a couble of sorties (man I love that plane), then I met a typhoon HO at 10K with both our guns blazing, I got him and he got me.
So there I lost my hard earned 70 perks, because when you loose your perk plane you loose all the perks you had to pay for it, now I has around 1,74 perkpoints"
Surgeons General Warning: HO'ing when in a Perk plane may be hazardous for your reputation. :rolleyes:
Like Pongo said, the reason why players HAVE 1000+ perk points is because they fly the older, more challenging, higher perkie receiving planes. Those who fly the late war, higher performing planes dont get perks that fast (n1k, la7, 190d9, p-51D,109g10 amongst others). Take up a 205 or a spit5, every kill you get in those things is the equivalent of getting 2 or 3 kills in late war planes (perkpoint-wise).
Matter of fact, when the new version is out, be there the first day, fly a Typhoon (tempest close equivalent). You will have a hard day dodging all the vets with lotsa earned perks trying out the me262, that may give you a taste of what this game may become without the perk system.
I do agree that the planes are expensive. I'd put the Tempest cost 25 perks, arado cost 20 perks, Ta152 cost 20 perks, 190d9 *G* cost 5 perks, F4U-C cost 8 perks, Me262 should cost 50 perks, La7 cost 5 perks, N1k cost 5 perks, P-51D cost 5 perks.
But again, thats just me :)
[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Tac ]
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I haven't seen a perk plane in a long time, matter of fact, I made it a point to burn some perkies yesterday, took a TA152 up, and proceeded to fall back into old habits, strafing acks...(died too, hehe!)
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I can tell you this, if they enable all the perk planes to everyone (cancel the perk system) alot people will leave and HTC will come out as loosers...
Why are they perked? because they are late war AC that _almost_ did not see any combat.
Why HTC developed them? no idea i much rather would have seen them developed the early war ACīs....
But the perk system works and thats final.
Think about it, next version the me 262 is here, you really want to see an arena full of jet AC?
Regards.
[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Maniac ]
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TACS perk point list would be interesting.
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Putting the CHOG at 8 perks worked great, and it's my belief also that the other perk planes cost should be lowered.
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How about an example of another way of doing it? WB's and AW do not have any kind of perk system. In those two you also cannot fly an ME-262 period except on rare and special occasion. I'd much rather like to be able to take a Tempest or Arado whenever I feel like it, If I eaned it. And I took an Arado just for the heck of it a week ago for fun. The only time I ever have online. If I lost the points (died, disco's or crashed) and I had to wait to do it again? Tough sh&t for me. The rules are the rules. And they apply to everyone across the board.
So why did HTC model planes not generally available to everyone 7 by 24 or it does not interest anyone in particular to use ? I'm shaking my head at that question because it's so self centric. AH isn't an online sim about any small, specific time frame of WWII aircombat. AH is not "Battle of Britain" (takes hat off in respect for the late Simguild) nor is it "Blitzkrieg:1939" or even "Midway" with a very narrow and limited plane set.
I beleive AH is a place to do use a WWII aircraft flight simulater to simulate WWII aircombat against other WWII aircraft regardless of the year of manufacurer, while the HA's, events and scenarios setup the more accurate historical setups.
Westy
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If you play Everquest or Ultima Online or similar games, do you demand to get as much money as everyone else have? or do you demand to get the best weapons etc from the start?
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Man, just take the underrated planes (205, 109f/g2, a6m, spitV, seafire, la5, ki61) and you'll have enough points for a tempest in 1 night of playing. Easily.
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As a matter of basic business principals in the face of competition, either give the customer what he wants or he won't be a customer. If I were a score oriented newbie, I might want access to the best planes and as my skills improved voluntarily downgrade to more challenging aircraft. Now that the CT is open, I could care less if the MA is full of C-hogs or N1Ks :p
In any sport where you want a good matchup, some sort of handicap system ensures the best players have to work harder to balance the game. In football, the better teams get tougher schedules and later draft picks. Instead, the perk system ensures that the people who need the best planes don't get them. Maybe it should be inverted. For instance, if your kill to death ratio is too far above the overall average in a particular type of aircraft, the perk cost increases to discourage you from using that aircraft. But alas, any perk system will deny some customer the right to fly the plane of his choice, and you will lose any customers that are focused on a perked plane they cannot have.
Since so many customers have conflicting wants, HTC can either come up with a compromise that makes no one 100% happy (but hopefully appeals to the majority) or offer all of the requested alternatives (reducing the total numbers in any one arena and defeating the purpose of online flying).
Presently they have taken the latter choice with the introduction of the CT. Maybe there should be 3 arenas: historical, strat/score oriented, and unlimited furball. Of course you could argue that HtH fulfills the furball role. If you don't like CT or MA, save some money and keep flying HtH.
Personally, I will be found only in the CT most of the time unless I want a break from its current planeset. I also found HtH more entertaining than the MA when all 8 players were skilled and cooperated. 4 vs 4 fights or smaller is representative of the majority of actual engagements. Larger numbers are needed for the strat elements to work right, but I am not interested in the fantasy nature of the current MA strat system and would rather focus on sharpening my meager acm/gunnery skills in a historical context with a little level bombing on the side for variety.
Disagreeing with the newbie's opinion is more than acceptable, this is a discussion board. Insulting him for disagreeing with your opinion or implying that your opinion somehow counts more than his is downright wrong.
Ultimately, HTC must make a profit to exist. They must follow a profitable path just to survive (whatever that might be as defined by all of the paying customers). Of course, they don't have to follow the most profitable one. They can always choose to follow their own opinions and principles at the expense of profits.
I love AH as it is now, and from my perspective, I believe it will only keep getting better. I hope the lower price draws so many new players that HTC makes even more money than before so that they can continue to make me a happy customer. If enough people are willing to pay and play, I am sure HTC could eventually come up with enough variations on their product to make everyone that likes flight sims happy.
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Don't want to hijack this thread but everytime I see the statement "the arena full of La7's", I'm gonna yell.
Where are all these La7's? Dejavu posted kills stats (since we don't have sortie stats, this will have to work)on 082501. At that time, the la7 was 4th on the list with 8.62% of the kills. Since it's introduction to AH, it has never been higher than 4th and this latest percentage is the highest its ever been. To put it into perspective, the N1K was 1st with 14.73% at time of reporting.
Granted, its an awesome plane but the arena is not "full" of La7's.
Back to topic.
Mighty1, get back here! We miss ya and yore bro. :) Perk points? Bah! I have more than 1500 and never use em. You of all people won't need to, lol.
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HTC !!
i got something like 2500 perk points and never use them. Give them to this whinnnnnnnnner so he can shut up !
RWY
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Too bad there can't be a system which limits use by a first-come-first-serve system rather than a perk system which really benefits the better flyers. Such as limit how many of a certain type of aircraft can take off from each base based on the numbers produced or saw combat. I'm just throwing out an idea, but it would at least give the newbie the same shake at trying to get what is currently a perk plane as it would the veteran.
Oh yeah, and the arena IS full of LA7's. I see the three stooges everywhere I go...LA7s, N1K's and Spits. For me, since I mostly fly F6F, F4U and P51B, I avoid combat as best I can vs the LA7 because I at least have a little chance vs the Spit and N1K because they do have some faults. Also, I like dying to a variety of aircraft types and again will avoid LA7s if I can. Maybe others avoid LA7s too and that affects the LA7's kills. Come up in an F6F and you are bound to find action.
-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels
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Explain the numbers Puke. La7 is 4th. P51D is 3rd. A fourth stooge maybe but not 3.
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Just an idea:
At the beginning of the month (each new tour), everyone starts with 100 perk points (or whatever the most expensive perk cost is). The points from the previous tour are replaced. Everyone starts with the same amount.
This gives everyone an opportunity to fly any plane they wish in the MA at least once. They can blow it all at once on the most expensive or fly the some of the other planes plenty of times.
I think this would add more meaning to the perk point system for those who currently are sitting on thousands and at the same time give new players a taste of what they could have if they get out there and earn the points.
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Hello Mighty1!
Hope to see you back up in AH someday. The dweebfactor is getting rediculously high as of late and a good stick like yourself tends to level load the masses.
Perks aint nuthin and if you would spend a few hours online flying smart as usual, you would have your fighter perks ready to go.
Buff perks are a little tougher to get ;)
Y <S>
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Well, the arena is a mighty big place but over the past few days I've been downed by La7s a lot. Still see a few P38s here and there, but as I said before, its largely La7s, Niks and Spits.
Look, you guys can say what you want about the perk system. You claim if more of the planeset is full of Late War planes and the perks are reduced, people will leave. Why? These game is based on airplanes from the WW2 ERA. Not just the ones you want, or I want. The ERA. I just find the argument that folks will ditch AcesHigh because perks are reduced or more late war planes come out is arrogant presumption. I have no use for ground vehicles, but we've got em, same thing with mannable ack and ships. Just because they are there when I'd rather see other things doesn't mean Im throwing a tantrum and leaving.
But this all wanders far off the point the original poster made. Its just not very fair that the rank newbie can't have at the perk planes for such a long time as it is is set now. Hopefully the perk system is in flux and open to experimentation. Heck, try the Geritol Theory...give everyone 1 a day and after that, they gotta have the required perks. Now everyone has a chance to ride them.
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No I earned my 4800 fighter points killing wild hordes of Nikishitfires in my Me109G6, I refuse to have them revoked just to satisfy the whims and complaints of whiners.
If you think perkplanes are expense here is a hint.
Take a 109F4 with gondola cannon, this plane turns ok and climbs ok and isnt as slow as a spitV or zero. Now go kill F4Us and spitfires and nikis in it. In a few hours you will have masses of points as each kill will give you some 3-5 points.
However!
It would be OK for HTC to credit each new account with 50 fighter points. This way the new guys are substantially closer to a Tempest but still have to do some killing to fully earn the Perk plane.
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"Too bad there can't be a system which limits use by a first-come-first serve system.."
Steven, have you seen what some people think is appropriate gameplay for the fleets, no? That's bad enough, I'd hate to see what it would be like if planes were exposed to the same type of manipulative power by making them limited to a certain number and availability based on first-come, first served..
Why should someone who's spent the whole day crashing Arados' because he can't fly them make it so that when I log on at night there are none left to use? Or the ijdit who gets a kick out of purposely doing the same for the stock of ME-262's for one side only to then switche to another countries so he and his buddZ can fly thiers unhindered?
I'd rather have it available for the right price versus having it only once a month on a special day or worse only having it available if the dweebs and idiots don't run out of them first.
Westy
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Well, the arena is a mighty big place but over the past few days I've been downed by La7s a lot. Still see a few P38s here and there, but as I said before, its largely La7s, Niks and Spits.
You've been shot down by the same number of P51D's, yet you don't mention them. Why is that? Debate the data.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
...It would be OK for HTC to credit each new account with 50 fighter points. This way the new guys are substantially closer to a Tempest but still have to do some killing to fully earn the Perk plane.
I like this idea. If they got 70 points when they log in they would propably lose that fighter in 15 min. If they need to get some points they already know what could happen if you fly to the furball with Tempest :D
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Pongo you are saying the same thing I am. Why take away a plane someone likes to fly?
The point I was trying to make is at least with a rolling plane set EVERYONE gets to fly the available AC.
Now if you see a Tempest it's probably being flown by a good pilot and he has an even bigger advantage over the newbie than before.
Why?
What is the advantage [game wise] of giving a person who flies all the time and is considered a better than average pilot an AC that the others cannot have?
Hey look! I'm just pointing out my view of the perk system. It's not a slam on anyone nor is it a slam on AH. I still think this is the best flight sim around but I think the Perk system needs to be re-thought.
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Mighty perk planes are so rare in the MA that you are really in no disadvantage without flying them.
The Ta152 is useless at MA alts and a host of non-perk planes easily outperform it at typical AH alts.
The Tempest is a spectacular plane by all means. Its fast, climbs great, turns ok, dives and has great firepowe. However if you are not full careful a P51 La7 Typhoon and Me109G10 can catch you if they dive on you.
Another problem with tempests is their high visibilty in the MA. Whenever one shows up it becomes a gian neon "come kill me" sign. I have seen often 6 or more people chase one Tempest.
Basically its good plane but also very limiting.
As for Ar234, it only has enough bombs to kill one hanger.
Please dont let this irrational and baseless fear take you out of AH and make you miss the new $14.95 price.
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I would say the Perk system works just about the way it should.
It doesn't matter if you play 12 hours a day or 2 hours a day. It still takes the same ratio of played time to perk ride time.
True, I think the cost of some aircraft is somewhat excessive, but thats ok since it applies equally across the board.
And Apache I agree with you :) It totally irks the toejam outta me to see all the "the sky is full of La7's it needs perked" crap, when the numbers just don't support that. Yup, I fly the La7, but I've been flying the Russian fighters full time since the Yak-9U first came out. Many Many Many moons ago.
Pyro, maybe its finally time for the Yak-9UT you promised me ;)
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What I do know is that I very rarely see perk planes. I've seen two or three this Tour and have flown two as well, a Ta152H-1 and an Ar234A.
The problem that I have is that I don't have enough perk points to actually become familiar with the Tempest or Ta152H-1. At this point I have 400 Fighter perks and almost 200 bomber perks, but to become slightly familiar with the Tempest's flight envelope I would have to burn all those points, and by the time I could afford another, I'd have lost what feel for it I had gained.
They're just too expensive for them to be worth worrying about. The Ar234 has such a light bombload that it can scarcely affect the MA, and it dumps its bombs and runs if even slightly threatened. The Tempest and Ta152H-1 are both capable fighter, but nothing stunningly special when placed alongside the free La7, P-51D, Fw190D-9 and Typhoon MkIb.
At this point I just won't worry about it. I doubt if I'll ever fly a Me262 online.
BTW, the first perk plane I saw was a Ta152H-1 when I was in a Ta152H-1. We had a nice duel in which neither of us was shot down.
The second perk plane I saw was a Tempest when I was flying a P-38L. I shot the Tempest down. :D
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<S> Verm.
Yeah, numbers is what got the f4u1c perked and I have no problem with that. Well as we say here down south, "whats good for the goose is good for the gander". I'm using that very same data used against the f4u1c to support my postion on the La7. The numbers simply do not add up.
I apologize to the community for the hijack. I will shut up now.
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I like the idea of starting each tour with all players having an equal amount of Perkies. Then assign Perk values to ALL planes, and let players choose. If you fly a lot and get kills, you get to fly whatever you want for the whole tour. If you fly a lot and die a lot, you get stuck in unpopular planes by the end of the tour. If you only fly occassionally, you get to choose any plane when you do fly. Newbies get to try the hot planes -- once or twice, every tour.
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I think I've seen one Tempest in the last 2 weeks and it's been well over a month since I've seen a 152. If your point is that the perks aren't fair because they do not allow you to fly these planes very often, then ok. But if your thinking that the arena is full of perk planes flown by all the best sticks who happen to rack up tons and tons of perks and then club down newbies in these perk rides... it's just not happening. As it is, my ride the chog got perked... and I aint minding that so much. This is *not* a big deal Mighty.
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if it makes you feel any better, I MAKEthe planes, and I can't even fly some...... it's just gonna make me try harder, and earn more points.
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perk the 190a8 i em sure no Lw fan wil whine :D
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RESET all perks each tour. At the beginning of each tour all players have 100 perk points. As the tour comes to a close perhaps there would be more and more perk planes flying, sort of an rps lol. ok mebbe not..
Yeah I like Exile's idea, with it we all start on an even playing field. I had 1800 perkies earned when the perk system was introduced, i changed accts etc and now don't have them, but I see players with 3-4-6000 points... some of these guys need never fly a "regular" plane again. and Most of these points where earned during the perk point bugs era. Resetting everyone's perks at some point is fair IMO. Those players with 4000 points will ALWAYS be able to fly anything they wish. The plane perk costs have to be so low as to be reachable by the masses that no plane can be costly enough for the hi points guys to ever not be able to fly perk rides....
And besides... the guys with 4000 points... perks no longer mean anything to them, whats to keep them in the game? The constant pursuit of a goal, like in games like EQ is what keeps players in the game trying to reach the next level. If perkies reset each month, hmm after awhile i guess even that could become boring... i dunno
The perk system as it stands would not be so bad if it weren't for the perk bug period.
WIPE EVERYONE"S PERKS!!
SKurj
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Westy,
<<<Why should someone who's spent the whole day crashing Arados' because he can't fly them make it so that when I log on at night there are none left to use?>>>
Not that I'm pushing for the idea, I just threw it out there as one way to even things out between vets and newbies for the us of what are now "perked" planes. But what I meant was that there would be only a limited number of planes in the AIR from one base at a time. Crash an Arado, then an Arado becomes available in the Hangar again. If you want to fly an Arado and five are in the air already, you have to wait until one crashes or lands/exits.
Below 10,000 feet, I still say it's the 3-Stooges film festival of N1K, Spit and LA7. A kill list is a general rule to determine numbers flown but it is based on things that would be misleading. No kill, no death, but landed...not scored.
-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels
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I hardly if ever use my perk points. The perk points I do use, I quickly get back within a few sorties. (I get between 5 and 18 perk points a sortie recently)
I've got 1700+, but I would like to be able to save them should the desire arise within me to take up a perk plane (when new ones come out) that I think would be interesting.
As is, I don't have enough perk points for an Arado. Every once and a while I get the urge to fly one.. but I can't, so I don't. I don't get upset and come to the UBB "I don't have enough perk points because I don't fly as much as the next guy does"
I just hope that when I login I get there during resets.
As for gaining fighter perk points, that's one of the easiest things for me and the most fun. Everytime I land a sortie, I like to see how many I get... it's basically the rank system or score system for me.
Anyways, back to whatever this thread is really about..
-SW
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Erm, to make the planeset open to all because newbies dont get the chance to fly perk planes... then what is to stop the vets from flying them? I mean, give a newbie an me262, IF he can take off with it, he's bound to be vulched by a vet in another me262. Big deal.
They should be able to fly the perk planes in the TA or DA for free (I think they can actually) if they want to fly it or become familiar with it. Heck, I spent 2 hours in the TA just trying to figure out how to slow down and land the damn arado without missing or flying off the end of the runway at 200mph when the arado was introduced.. and I did this before trying it in the MA!
I see a tempest almost every day (1 a day, 2 or 3 at a most), a scarce ta152 and some arado's venturing around. They are not that common, but they are not just sitting there either.
Giving perk points at the start of each tour is a good idea. IF each perk ride is about the amount I mentioned earlier, then at the start of each tour, if the server detects a player has less than 150 points, it will bump the perk points to 150. If it detects a player has more than 150 points, it wont give the player perk points. This way any newbie will be able to fly the planes a few times (3 me262's or about a dozen la7's and its likes). If the newbies crash their points and cant get more, heck, is it the fault of the rest of the playerbase? They'd better learn to fly the planes and start getting their own points...at least until the next tour.
Give everyone a CHANCE to fly the perk rides, yes, make them freely avaliable, NO. I dont want to see Mr. Newbie rampaging in an me262 and then everyone else being forced to fly the me262 because if they dont they have no chance. Look at ww2ol now, almost everyone is tanks and not infantry. Why? Tanks are faster, better armed, more powerful, harder to hit.. and l33t against inf. Same will happen to AH if no controls are put in (aka, perk system). Good thing the CHOG horror is passed, that was the 2 most horrible months ive seen in this game.
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SWulfe,
How to get 18 perk points in a mission?
I get 0.5 to 5.6 (once this tour) per mission, unless you count base captures.
Maybe this is an example of how the Perk system favors those who play a lot and are consquently better. It looks like it takes me far more effort, far more game time, to earn a Tempest than it does you.
I would guess that I earn about 100 fighter perk points per tour.
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I just get into the big fuballs with a 190A5, La5FN or P51B and bring back 7 or 8 kills.
My norm lately has been about 12 perk points. You have to land it of course to get those massive perk point multipliers.
As for rewarding those who play more, well I hardly classify as one of those who play more. Flown maybe a combined total of 30 hours for the past two tours.
-SW
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SWulfe,
Well, you don't play a lot. About the same as I do, but you are certainly better than me by a long shot.
<S> Good work on your skill.
What I do know is that most of us, and certainly most newbies, can't earn perk points at anywhere near that rate. We also land far fewer of our flights.
I'm barely breaking even in K/D this tour.
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A few months ago, when I first started flying AH, I couldn't wait to get enough bomber perks to fly the Arado super perk plane. I finally did and immediately took it on a mission. Thats the last time I flew the Arado... I haven't even bothered to take up a Tempest yet, but I am glad I don't have to fight off Tempests every time I go up in a bomber. Also remember that in football, the best teams get the number one seeds come playoff time. ;)
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S! Karnak,
Sorry I'm not trying to infer that newbies and other people who can not accumulate perk points quickly should not be allowed access to the perk planes. Quite the contrary, I believe that if you have less than 50 (or maybe 70?) perk points at the start of the tour, you should be given an additional 100.
New start up accounts should be given 200 perk points.
This is just my opinion and I can't change HTC's mind, but this is the way I believe it should be. To make it a more 'fair' perk system.
I also believe that later variants should be given a low perk point cost- between 7 and 15.
But rather than deviate this thread I will post to a new one should someone start up about perking some planes.
Now, if HTC would allow perk point trading.. that would certainly be interesting. I don't use them much (I would like to keep 500 in the bank just in case), so they are kind of a waste sitting in my account. :)
-SW
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Originally posted by Fatty:
Man, just take the underrated planes (205, 109f/g2, a6m, spitV, seafire, la5, ki61) and you'll have enough points for a tempest in 1 night of playing. Easily.
109F4 is my main ride.
I'll sell you my perks Mighty :-)
Hope to see you flying again soon
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If the main arena is not limited by history, then aircraft should not be limited by their scarceness. F4U-1C was perked because too many people flew them. Perks should be lowered on planes that are not appearing at all. Seems like people with perks don't want or need perked planes. People without perks can't use them. What's the point of having planes nobody can or will fly?
As far as earning your perks, a paying customer earns his right to ask what he is paying for. I have a friend whose favorite plane of all time since childhood happens to be the Tempest. It is a plane he flew in Avalon Hill's Air Force board game almost exclusively. Why should someone like this not be able to pay his monthly fee and fly the plane he loves? Are kills earned with a Tempest any more dweeby than those earned with a Spitfire? I personally hated flying against Tempests in Hth, but I would never want someone else to be limited in their flying choices since the next ride to get restricted from general use might be mine.
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im sorry but this is not a valid arguement.
you say that we long term customers have already earned our perks but I cancelled recently throwing away over a 1000 fighter perks and 800 bomber perks.
I reopened my account under hazed2, earned 150 fighter perks then got my old hazed handle back and was reset to 0 again.
whats the big deal?
I like the ta152,the arado and the tempest but i dont need to fly them constantly.
As for an unperked tempest, Im sorry but i dont want to fight an arena full of them.
You say you have a restricted choice??? well just imagine the restriction 100 tempests would cause! almost all the aircraft in the planeset would become almost useless against an arena full of tempests.
this is one of the first posts that has made me think 'now that is a whine',
HTC please give new customers 100 perks to play with to stop this sort of pointless moaning.
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We pay to play the game, WITH its structure and rules, NOT to have it be whatever we want. If enought people whine about the structure (see: RPS, One Trick Ponies), then the developers may need to change something to keep their customers, but our $14.95 doesn't entitle each of us to have everything that we want all the time.
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"then aircraft should not be limited by their scarceness."
They are NOT limited by thier or for thier scarceness in real life. They are limited by the impact, potential and/or real, they would have if they were available in unlimited numbers online.
But over all, Popeye addressed it best.
-Westy
[ 08-31-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]
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A company gets to choose what it wants to sell: i.e. the game and all of its associated rules.
A consumer gets to choose what to buy.
The company only succeeds if enough consumers choose to buy its product.
Every consumer has an equal vote in determining what is a valuable product. My $14.95 is as good as anyone elses, and contrary to above posts, it entitles me and anyone else paying to ask for anything we want.
Regardless of what I or anybody else requests, HTC reserves the right to sell whatever they want. For HTC to survive at all, they must make enough people happy to make enough money to cover their costs.
Right now, HTC is making me plenty happy, therefore they get my $14.95. But obviously some people are less than satisfied with things they way they are. If there are more people like them than there are of me, I would not be surprised to see HTC stop doing what I like (i.e. the CT), and start making the others happy (maybe an arena full of Me262s and Tempests). I will never say the others are wrong for wanting something different than me or suggesting to HTC that they provide what they want. Of course, if AH changes to the point I don't like it, away goes my account.
But why is it that for every whiner's post there are 3 to 10 anti-whiner's posts that can't just disagree with the original post, but take the high ground and declare the original post is outright blasphemy (burn him at the stake!)?
Most head to head arenas are unrestricted. Yet they are not full of F4U1Cs, Tempests, and Ar234s. Usually I saw tons of Spitfires, N1K2s, and Bf109G10s. While the aircraft in an arena can be regulated by the perk system, should they be? Apparently, a majority of people agreed the proliferation of F4U-1Cs was too high. But that could only be true if the majority were flying it in the first place ;) What is the difference between having an arena dominated by plane x instead of plane y? Oh, I know what the difference is: guys in plane z have a much better chance against plane y than plane x. So because you enjoy flying your plane z and don't want it outclassed by plane x, everyone else has to fly plane y. I don't see where that is any less selfish than all those quakers wanting to fly Chogs and Tempests at the expense of your fun.
Obviously I can rant and rave endlessly about market pressures and their impact on AH (I just happen to like arguing as much as I like flying). But my own personal feelings can be summarized in one statement:
HTC, thank you for the great flight models, awesome graphics, diversity of aircraft, and most of all a CT where I can fully enjoy them in an environment favorable to my interests.
I have what I want, I wish everyone else good luck in finding a way to get what they want. If that includes "whining" on this message board, no skin off my back, go for it.
Long live the CT, may it only get better.
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the "perk" system is idiotic and unfair and badly thought out since it is a dead end so far as plane development. It is an Ok system if you are stuck in a late war mindset with a heavy (lots of hours per month) AH monkey on your back but for most it is simply a bad system that is unfair.
Any time one person is flying an untouchable plane against lesser planes it is inherently unfair. No one wants to fly against the uber rides... The solution is worse thatn the problem tho.... the idiotic perk points are so high on the uber rides that the solution becomes.....
u never see the damn things. This is fine for most people but is a waste. further... the system does nothing to make for a place that early war planes (a huge and important part of WWII) can exist with some amount of parity.
surely, everyone (99%) would be better off if "perk" planes were available to everyone, for free, for the last day or so of the tour. We would get more use out of the stupid planes and the MA would be a fairer place.
sure... it's an RPS but whats wrong with an RPS that gives a few days to early war, a few days to uber and the majority to mid/late-mid war? Popularity could decide how long each period lasted. All planes would fly with much more parity and new or low time users would have parity of choice.
Better yet tho.... An area arena with all eras in the same arena but segregated from each other.... Field choice would decide what era, and plane choice you had. don't like P51's or don't like the action in late war area? click on another area of the map where Spit ones and 109e's and f4f's and p40's are mixing it up.... tired of that? jump to a mid war area. Unable or unwilling to fly anything but a P51 or Nik or P40 or whatever.... There would still be a place for you 24/7....
lazs
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Lazs...
In the past few weeks, since about mid august when I resigned up, I have seen fewer than 10 perk aircraft in the MA.
To me that hardly = UNFAIR
Once the 262 arrives, perhaps that will change.. gawd I hope only for the first week... Alotta guys have enough perkies to likely be able to lose a dozen of them and still never worry about not being able to fly anything at any time.
Wipe the perks at the beginning of a tour, reduce plane costs, give everyone enough perks at the start to afford the most expensive perk once.
Just another gr8 idea
SKurj
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"Wipe the perks at the beginning of a tour",
No. I earned them, I keep them. It would be very unfair for those who flew A/C other than late war monsters for months to have them lose all their hard earned perkies..and just because those players with low perks DONT have enough perks because (insert excuse here) or because (insert 2nd excuse here) dont. I can almost assure you that those who have big perk hoards are those that dont fly the late war monsters, and they dont fly that much in the MA either!
"reduce plane costs, give everyone enough perks at the start to afford the most expensive perk once."
Agreed 100%. Read my earlier post on that. It doesnt punish or give free perks to those who already have enough perks.
My $$ is just the same as the other player's $$, I dont see why the OLDER costumers have to be penalized. Give every costumer the same chance at a perk ride every tour yes, but dont punish those who go up in the less powerful planes and have gotten more perks because of it just because others cant do it or dont want to do it.
Comparison:
1 day (about 2 hours) flying La7 (perk getting modifier value=18) = around 12 perks
1 day (about 2 hours) flying C205 (perk getting modifier value=40) = around 45 perks
And the 205 having less kills because it is easily outperformed by most of the airborne planeset, while la7 has a lot of chances to get kills because it outperforms most of the planeset. Same flying time too.
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I am not really considered a newbie, but I am under 6 monthes off and on (on for good now). The perk system IMO works very good now because it rewards skill. To make it easy on someone because there new is like lining up on the runway and letting them practice there gunnery. To me earning the right to fly a plane is what makes this game challenging. I rarely see a perk plane, and when I do I don't change my tactics, I fly the same way, because I somewhat understand the strengths of my bird. Aces High is a remarkable game, and the perk system really works. There some pilots in here that can flat out fly their plane and the planes they are flying are not the "best" by far. I am learning that the hard way everyday. SALUTE!
:p
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Mighty 1
Fraid your argument hold no water my man.
I am not only new to AH,I've only been flying sims for 3 month and on AH for 2.
I am one of the users you describe,only being able to get online for 1-2 hrs per day as other folk need the phone line-
The result is that me perks accrue very slowly and I want to fly the tempest as much as the next man.
So,in order to do this during my 1 hour sessions,I learn all I can about the pros and cons of the planes/tactics-the full monty,then I kinda take off,grab alt and fight like british bulldog till I have the perkies.I feel I have earned them and enjoy my tempest all the more for it.Ģ20 of mine says that you buy "cheat" magazines for all your games.
Im going to look at net porn now
bye
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poor lazs
such a friggen idiot.
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agreed pongo :)
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ahh everyone joining in a common goal isn't that heartwarming :D
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Two ideas.
1. Mission planer can use his perk points for
the mission participants.
2. Enable to give perk points to the squad
members.
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To keep the present incentives and limitations while encouraging newbies and not-so-successfuls, how about retaining the present perk system AND giving EVERYONE one free use of each perk plane per tour until that plane is shot down or destroyed?
Or maybe one each free perk plane per week? Either option should preserve the present balancing while allowing every loyal member no matter what skill level to experience all the aircraft on line at least on a limited basis.
It probably won't take much time at all until the free perks are used up. Meanwhile,the overall balance remains reasonable and we all get more practice flying and defending against the ubers of the uber.
As many have said, under the present restrictions we rarely see ubers. And they make SUCH great targets when they appear.
As skill levels increase, people get more satisfaction not only in fighting with, but sometimes just surviving in, lesser machines. What is more satisfying than killing an uber with, say, a 202?
If it's too much a scoring hassle that would divert attention from developing 1.08 and other improvements, forget it. But if reasonably doable, might be worth consideration as a good compromise to satisfy most people and further enhance this most fabulous game.
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:confused: I wonder if HTC had a perk MA and a Perk free MA; which one would get more flyers? Hmm... :confused:
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cant we give NEW registered users 300 or more perks to use as a subscription bonus?
or alternatively lets just let poor old Laz fly perks as much as he wants because he obviously has some sort of problem with actualy earning his chance to fly the uber rides :D
then if he ever shoots me down i can just cover my scupcakes with my hand.
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"Cant we give NEW registered users 300 or more perks to use as a subscription bonus?"
That and the idea of start everyone off with 100 points at the start of a new tour won't solve a thing nor quiet the whine. The whiners, about perks keeping them from flying the perk planes, will still have a problem with those methods when they run out of those freeby points.
And to answer Magic's question. Perk free arena? Good cod it would be filled with nothing but Tempests and Arados.
Westy
[ 09-01-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]
[ 09-01-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]
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Tac, you earned many of your perks during the perk "bug" era, when fighters could get perks for killing AA fer Chrissakes!@! thats the issue I have. The new players don't have that opportunity. I remember flyin Ju88's and earning 40+ perks a trip, CHogs and P47's earning similar perks for Jabo runs all scored as FIGHTER perks.
Thats the issue I have with current perk scores.
SKurj
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Why worry about perks when there is the End-All-Death-Dealing-Beast-Master-190D9 Dora?
There is no sweeter looking, sweeter flying plane in the set. Not to mention, the "cry my eyes dry"crowd say nill about the beast.
Fly the Dora, fly AH, be happy.
(http://www.clarinet.fi/~thilak/Kuvat/FW190/Fw190Ddessinc.jpg)
Yeah baby...
[ 09-01-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]
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Wow... pongo, hazed and glasses all calling me an idiot! I think most people would take a uniform condemnation from that trio of morons as a compliment.... I know I do. gotta be on the right track. They are Sorta like a german version of the three stooges... just as dumb but.... not funny.
I have 2000 or so idiotic perk points wanna buy em? they accumulate quite rapidly if you fly a DHog.
skurj... I think you may have missed my point. If you see any perk plane in the arena it is an unfair matchup the way things are. The fact that you never see em does not change the inherent unfairness. Having said that.... I agree that they are very rare and that is the ONLY thing that makes em tolerable in an otherwise fair arena.... Kinda dumb eh? So....
Why not just dump the perk points and allow everyone a chance to fly the uber rides say 2 days at the end of the tour? It would be fair (choice wise) and we would certainly get to use the planes more than they are being used now. with no stigma or without flying a plane with a big target painted on it. right now, they are singled out as targets and cannot even fly aginst other uber rides either. Perk system has made em useless.
lazs
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One good sortie in a 109 F4 gets you around 8-10 points if you land it.
It might take me a DAY OR TWO to collect enough perkies to fly a TA152 if I'd wanted to (am not fond of it, personally). Started with my old account again (hence 0 Perkies) and in less than 2 weeks (playing maybe 3/4 hours/day during weekends and 2/3 hours /day during week days(mised some too) I got some 200+ perkies).
This will allow me to fly 2/3 perkies (& loose them) a week, good ratio IMO.
You seen me flying and know that I'm no Hotshot ;)
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oh... and giving everyone 100-300 perk points to start out would have exactly the same effect as getting rid of perk points entirely and just allowing all planes enabled for the first day or two except that after the 2nd day or so we would be back to seeing 1 or 2 perk planes up a tour.
lazs
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1.08, my choice is the one banking into a furball...
(http://www.clarinet.fi/~thilak/Kuvat/FW190/190D9dessin.jpg)
The other is heading off to never-never-P51 land of the FLTSIM2000 crowd...
edit- Wow... pongo, hazed and glasses all calling me an idiot! Wow, you MUST be right.
[ 09-01-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]
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Tac, you earned many of your perks during the perk "bug" era, when fighters could get perks for killing AA fer Chrissakes!@! thats the issue I have. The new players don't have that opportunity. I remember flyin Ju88's and earning 40+ perks a trip, CHogs and P47's earning similar perks for Jabo runs all scored as FIGHTER perks.
Thats the issue I have with current perk scores.
SKurj
I didn't though, and I feel the same way about it as Tac does. I have about 950 fighter perks and 700 bomber perks or so, and I've only been playing since April. I was briefly above 1000 fighter perks at the beginning of the month, flew the Ta-152 until I got down to 700 fighter perks- then I earned them BACK.
I totally agree with Swulfe here- I've been earning between 5 and 10 perks just about every single sortie I've flown. You guys want to earn perkies and still fly a "good plane"- try the 109G2 or the 190A5 on for size- both of them are undervalued in my opinion. I actually think the 190A5 and the 190A8 need to have their perk values switched.
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I can already smell the smoke from the hundreds of perk points being burned when 1.08 comes out. It will be neat to see all those jets for couple days. "Jets High"
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sunking... Sac? everyone knows people from northern ca are not too bright (it's the sun).
lazs
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1. Find your base being vultched the hardest.
2. Pick out a nice 109-F4 and slap a pair of gondolas on it.
3. Take off with 25% Fuel, headon the first 2 F4Us you see, maybe taking a n1k2 with you.
4. Process your 10 points earned in about 10 seconds and repeat.
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"Tac, you earned many of your perks during the perk "bug" era, when fighters could get perks for killing AA fer Chrissakes"
Totally incorrect. My account was wiped just after that. How many MONTHS has it been since then skurj? I had 2500 or perks before my account was wiped, and that was from playing MONTHS before and during that bug era. Dunno about you, but I dont go up and scum points just because (and in that time period, there were no perk planes or any announced as coming up anytime soon so...?).I got my points the right way, and I sure as heck wont like to have them dissapear because someone else is unwilling to do the same.
Give every player 300 perkies IF they dont have 300 perkies (if they have more, dont give them any). That way everyone will be able to fly any perk plane a couple of times. Heck, and thats overly generous anyway!.
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either way, as I see it the player with 3000+ perks doesn't have anything left to strive for with the exception of 3100, 3200 etc etc
U earned them.. well if perks had been reset every month from day one u wouldn't feel that way now would ya? +) and after a few months of monthly resets you won't feel that way anymore either.
Cut all perk plane costs in 1/2 and reset monthly!!
My thots
SKurj
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neg. im saving them for my heroic me262 deacking exploits!
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The more perk planes you see the more unfair (and unfun) the arena will be. The higher the perk points the less perk planes you will see and the more usless they will be.
Perk points have painted the arena into a very tight corner... No early war planes that work... unfair arenas and a faster and faster arena that contains less variety.
Having all planes available for the first or last few days would allow everyone to fly the "perk" rides and... Make the "perk" rides fly in an atmosphere of fairness and parity. The same could be done with early war rides but in reverse. A couple of days at the begginning or end that only early war planes were allowed... heck with 4-5 early rides u would probly see more variety than the current MA anyway. Certainly, more parity.
lazs
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i would really like the idea that mission planner can use his perks for mission participants! of course mission planner would be able to control who did/did not fly in mission
thats a great idea imo
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perks for mission planner? What does that have to do with anything?
lazs
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lasz typed:
Perk points have painted the arena into a very tight corner... No early war planes that work... unfair arenas and a faster and faster arena that contains less variety.
LOLOL BULLSH*T
Perk planes are rare in the arena at present, mebbe a little TOO rare. I played ohh.. 20-30 hrs this past weekend, and saw 2 arados(i was 1), 1 temp for all of about 1 minute, 1 ta152, and 1 chog(i was flyin it)
As far as speed goes, in the realm of most fights in the MA, not one perk ride (arado exception?) cannot be caught on the deck in a level chase.
I have no problems using relatively early war planes in the MA. Aircraft like the A6m compares relatively close to an early war plane, and i saw a ton o them up.
I think its plane durability as much as anything that deterrs some players away from early war aircraft. We all want as many kills as possible for as little ammo as possible expended. The US planeset with its relative durability makes it tough for the 202, non gond 20mm 109's etc
Even EW US aircraft were heavies when it came to durability.
just ramblin
SKurj
[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: SKurj ]
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I like the perk system myself, u wanna fly a perkie, and aint got the points, its real simple fly the 109F for a bit, it gives a good perk value per kill. Its not an easy plane to fly, but it makes kills very satisfying
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As one of the returning former subscribers I say don't give me any perks. I want to earn them like I did the first time around. I missed on the "beta" stage and did not return to AH until after January for a few months then left again for a while. You know what each time I started with 0 perks then and had to earn them all over again.
I say make the points value a little lower but not by half and don't reset every month. Maybe every 6 months but not every month.
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skerj.... I agree with that lasz guy... The perk system has painted itself into a corner... it is not roadkill that the arena is simply becoming a faster place with little hope of the very important (and fun)early war rides having a chance for their day in the sun.
Yes.. as i said, perk planes are rare.... so rare that they are useless. As they should be.... they are unfair to anyone flying against em... like giving the quarterback of one team a bulletproof limo to run the ball in. They would be very fair and..... used much more often if the idiotic perk system were abolished and they were allowed free of charge for a couple of days per tour.
lazs
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wish list:
1. Please dont let laz take an interest in the CT and fly there
2. Please dont let laz take an interest in
the CT and fly there
3. Please dont let laz take an interest in the CT and fly there
:D
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RPS
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Oh i dunno Lasz, only perkie I come up against lost... to my non perk ride.
it mebbe unfair to the perkie.
SKurj
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skerj.... I have only killed two perk planes to no losses in my 1D. So what? does that mean that the 1d is competitive with the Tempest? does it maybe mean that everyone in a 1d will kill tempests 2/1? does it even mean that I will allways prevail 2/1 against tempests or..... does it simply mean that you could't pass up an opportunity to brag? It doesn't mean anything. The facts remain that anytime the tempest is in the arena with lesser planes then there is a built in unfairness if not everyone has them available. If they were available to everyone then 80% or so of the planes you see in the arena would be tempests.
hazed.... don't worry. It's not that likely. lack of action and lesser skills required so a lot more boring. i have a low tolerance for boring.
lazs
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No lazs1 Yer a pinnhead!! errm maybe i need to attack him in a stronger manner such that HTC close this thread before he gets the last word!!!!
SKurj
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New price is great but.....WHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIINE!!
Another squeak and moan fest. In the immortal words of Eddie Murphy: "If you don't like it, get the F**k out!"
Pyro please lock this thread. :rolleyes:
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why not give everyone a certain number of perk planes at every reset that dont carry over to the next reset.
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aah skurj.... so it would appear thazt you only wanted to use the idiotic perk thingie as an opportunity to brag?
pinhead? Bet ur a tough guy huh?
lazs
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I see a mon overseein dis tread...Jah, I see dat his name relates to a firey presence. Jah, it is very clear to me now mon! Dis thread will be closed.
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I was nuetral about "Perk Points" from the start. Now that I have some experience with them they are much less a factor in the game than I had immagined at first.
For myself, I feel it adds to the game even though I have only used my own Perk Points by accident. (Inaccurate click --> but I can't shoot well either :) )
Mighty1, give it a try for a bit longer!
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me brag? the only perkie i shot down had no guns +)
SKurj
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fair enough skurj.... The only ones i killed were just plain poorly flown. So what was your point???
In my opinion both your experiance and mine would tend to support my view rather than yours tho.... Perk system is bogus... perk planes have no place in the MA. It's bad that they don't get used but would be even worse if they did.
lazs
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i like the perk system as is, tho i'd like to see em cheaper.
And my system is as unworkable as the wright flyer was.
SKurj
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good analodgy skurj.... your system is just like the wright flyer.... trying to cross atlantic ocean.
lazs
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I would like to go on record before this thread is locked stating: Laz is most assuredly an Idiot.
Where is it stated that air combat is supposed to be fair? Air combat is in essence unfairness compounded by unfair advantages. Some grab altitude, some gondolas. Many used to take Chogs. In Lazs Arena (the LA) everyone must fly below 200ft, hence no unfair altitude advantage. In the LA, all must follow a RPS with the planes limited to D hogs(as he states that is his plane of choice) and TBM's. The TBM's are a diversion for those buff pilots that cant stand ACM, and since they don't carry a big bomb load, won't effect the strat system and limit Lazs supply of D Hogs.
Vote now for the LA!!!
A somewhat more fair perk system, now that would be something I could agree with. Fairness in air combat? Get real!
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100th post!
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DAMN!! and i was otw for 101!!
SKurj