Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: -aper- on January 20, 2003, 10:23:52 PM
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Can we hope that Aces High II will come with new or improved FM and DM or we'll go the WBIII way ?
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What's wrong with the FM?
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Dunno about the FM but it would be nice to see a updated DM.
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Would it affect performance in the AM or delay the arrival of the PM?
Or will Kurt Tank re-invent SM?
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I would like to see more immersion of flight. I would like to see better planes behaviour especially in stalls and spins. I would like also to see the effects of automatic slats working and some turbulense influences making the flight much more real and fun.
It would be better to see the wings loosing appropriate lift due to the damages in the surfaces etc.
This list could be continued
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wouldn't we all. :D
Originally posted by -aper-
I would like to see better planes behaviour especially in stalls and spins.
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I would also like to see Pamela Anderson knock on my door with a cam corder and a fist full of cash.Wake up.:rolleyes: edited....Topless of course
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What is really important to the game is to keep it up to date according to 2003 year standarts.
FM and DM of AH is kinda old. IL-2 is by far ahead now.
I see nothing wrong if HTC decided to improve graphics but without improving the FM and DM it would be the same mistake as iEN made with WBIII.
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FM dated? How do you work that one out? An FM is either accurate or it isn't - it it ain't broke...
Slats are already modelled, just not visually. They are still coded into the game.
I would like to see visual representations of already modelled phenomena. As for the damage model, more incremental damage would be good - like a few more steps between wingtip gone and wing gone. Perhaps even fuel leaks turning into fires. I would also like to see aircraft remain on the FE after the pilot bails. Oil/dirt on the windscreen from being too close to other aircraft or from engine damage.
I've no idea how difficult these would be to place in a multiplayer environment, but they would be cool.
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I would like to see bullet holes in my canopy,planes etc...
In other words better graphics in cockpits since this is what you see all the time. When i land i would like to see the damage on my plane.
I would like to see planes blow up or pilot died when there planes on fire. I would like to see fire in cockpits or oil on canopy.
I would like to see better tracer graphics. Like tracers that tumble like in the WWII guncam I've seen. small explosion on planes when there being hit like IL-2 . or Warbirds. I would like to see a smearing of oil when I follow a plane to close that is leaking oily smoke
I would like to see a better FM where you have accelerated stalls. oh i could go on and on :D
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Dowding
The planes data (like speeds, climbs , accelerations) are calculated and implemented very well. The FM itself is kinda ill. How good the plane can fly without both wings! Or why the planes are falling nose-up without h-stab? Something is really wrong with calculating lift/mass/torque/airdrag. When you fly strait the balance is ok, but on critical AOA or while loosing some parts the planes behaviour are very strange.
That could be improved for sure and it has nothing to do with multiplayer.
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Originally posted by -aper-
Dowding
The planes data (like speeds, climbs , accelerations) are calculated and implemented very well. The FM itself is kinda ill. How good the plane can fly without both wings!
Inertia and gravity...
I hope you don't mean they still can maneuver ?
Falling is barely flying :p
Or why the planes are falling nose-up without h-stab?
In this case what should they do ?
Dive ?
The stabilo is here to counter act the portance of the wing so if you remove it ...
(http://www.chez.com/shgente/histoire/fig6.jpg)
Something is really wrong with calculating lift/mass/torque/airdrag. When you fly strait the balance is ok, but on critical AOA or while loosing some parts the planes behaviour are very strange.
What are you refering too ?
It's admitted that visual damage in AH are not EXACTLY what the FM engine use (dunno if it's true or not).
That could be improved for sure and it has nothing to do with multiplayer.
Dunno again :)
Have a look to http://www.monmouth.com/~jsd/how/htm/how.html
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AH II? what's AHII? Is that on the way?
What's wrong with AH? Seems to be very elastic in the updating department, and as pointed out, FM is not anything that becomes obsolete once good programmed. Surely the FM is pretty good in Il-2, but IMHO AH is considerably better.
Graphics are fine in Il-2, but consider that a good part of our community does not even have the machines to run it properly (regarding fps), so I am quite thankful to HTC to keep AH within moderate Computer requirements.
Damage Model is something that is programmable, and I do have the faith in HTC to code in a better DM later on,,,as we proceed.
Alas, our wishlist is simply too big, but at least HTC seems to take it into consideration all the time.
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Heya's,
I work in wireless networks that run "thin" and "thick" client applications. For years (not anymore since 802.11B) the goel was minimize the amount of data being sent and received. Aces High focuses on the same problem when dealing with traffic on the internet. Send the least amount of data and get the best response time with less lag.
However what I don't get is that we are all running thick client apps on our PC's (that being Aces High). So why is our damage model so vanella? After all it is not taking place on there servers? It's happening real time on our machine? In other words the HTC server says in some code format that says your left wing should explode and that message is sent out over the internet to your PC, but the explosion and the graphics are all in your house on you machine. The message/code from HTC is unchanged regardless of the damage model much the same as your engines sounds or other effects do not reley on there servers or code.
Also I can run much more graphics intensive programs on my machine without the frame slowdown. Why is HTC such a framerate hog?? I am not a programmer.
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Gentlemen
Its been my experience for the last 3 years that Dale is ussually thinking at least a year ahead of us.
I'm sure he is constantly looking at what it takes to keep AH viable. Hes seen all the mistakes the other guys have made.
Lets have a bit of faith that when we need AH II he'll have it there for us eh?
Rock on HTC.
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F4UDOA AH do a bit more than receiving and sending data :)
I'll list the minimun I can guess :
-send data
-recieve data
-update from data
-compute damage
-compute gunnery
-compute FM
-manage input
-process vox
-predict other airplane position
that's a lot to do :)
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The FM I luv.
I wouldn't change it even if it were AH II. I complain about specific flight characteristics but the feel of the game is excellent.
Straffo,
I realize there is alot going on. However how much is being done on their servers and how much is being done on our front end. The graphics I believe are a function of our PC's power. What is being sent over the data link should NOT be affected by increased graphics. The tough stuff you mentioned is on HTC's side on their severs. Which is exactly my point. My only point really.
Why is this? Probably because HTC puts there effort into more challenging aspects of the game such as Ballistics, Telemetry and a host of other functions. Their servers must be monsters to handle it all. The questions i have is more to do with what happens on our end, the PC.
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is it AM or PM in the MA or the CT? I dont know what we are on about the FM or CV or GV and what the hells a VH or FH or BH. and the there is a PT also. So i will just say TTFN cuz i have a headache now please use real words so i know what hell you are on about :)
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loopin in a b 17 fully loaded crewed ect
560 mph vert dives ( with control ) in p 38s yea i have film.
totaly lack of really bad control probs 51s were famous for leading to flat spins.
all kurt tank products
are these flight model problems or htc decisions?
without knowing how can we really say we need a new one?
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<<<
Originally posted by Griego
I would like to see bullet holes in my canopy,planes etc...>>>
Bullet holes in your plane and canopy? Im sure theres lotsa guys willin to help you out. >>>
<<>>
I think the reason you see bullets tumble in the old ww2 films is because the camera's were so lousy. As far as accellerated stalls go. If you snap onto you back pulling g's at 225 mph you have experienced it. You might try zooming in when you shoot some dude,. You will have no trouble seeing him light up from the "small explosions":D
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You guys gonna make gtting a kill a semi annual event.
The gunnery is fine. Do we want
1. Jammed guns?? Hell no!!
2. Overheated engines?? Hell no!!
3. 60 mph wind gusts that blow our little spittys around like
drunk butterfly?? Hell..err..ok..i like that one.
4. Mechanical defects?? hell no!!
5. Radio shot out?? That would be interesting
6. Oil on windsheild?? No way!!
7. Ice on window of russian planes? ok
8. Blood spattering cockpit hits?? Hell yes :D
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Originally posted by -aper-
FM and DM of AH is kinda old. IL-2 is by far ahead now.
Wrong :p
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for those that missd it, AHII will not replace AH.
AHII is a temp working name for what was going to be mission arena, HT did not like the name"mission arena" and is looking for a new name.
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I want gun jams
overheated guns
broken radios or no radios on planes that didnt have them.
Fuse malfuntions on rounds.
Increased unreliablility for re ups.
Wind gusts and low level fog at fields...
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Originally posted by john9001
for those that missd it, AHII will not replace AH.
AHII is a temp working name for what was going to be mission arena, HT did not like the name"mission arena" and is looking for a new name.
Uh, read his original post again.
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i want La7s to have a 50% chance of exploding on take-off.
seriously now...
I'd like a more detailed DM.
I'd like stalls to be modelled with buffeting and removal of the stall horn on the planes that in RL don't have one.
I'd like spins to be harder to get out of.
I'd like more poligons on planes.
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Originally posted by Griego
I would like to see bullet holes in my canopy,planes etc...
In other words better graphics in cockpits since this is what you see all the time. When i land i would like to see the damage on my plane.
I would like to see planes blow up or pilot died when there planes on fire. I would like to see fire in cockpits or oil on canopy.
I would like to see better tracer graphics. Like tracers that tumble like in the WWII guncam I've seen. small explosion on planes when there being hit like IL-2 . or Warbirds. I would like to see a smearing of oil when I follow a plane to close that is leaking oily smoke
I would like to see a better FM where you have accelerated stalls. oh i could go on and on :D
Whew, 7 "I would like to see"'s. Btw, the FM in AH is great, but the DM is not, thats the only thing that IMO needs to be changed
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< S > F4UDOA
You want a big PC download , Try FA3.5 the download is 350+ meg, or you can buy the box version.
DarkHawk
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If the new game engine requires bigger download it's ok.
But if the new game is improved only in graphics (like wbIII compared to wb2.77) I would prefere the game wich has better choice of planes. In other words I would like Aces High with 100+ planes and current graphics instead of Aces High II with new graphics but few planes and the same FM/DM/ and gunnery.
HTC probably worked hard on Aces High II last year or even two years. We can see it by drastically slowing down the development of current versions of Aces High. And probably Aces High II is rather closed to betta now. Thats good from one hand that they made this move smoother (compared to iEN with WBIII). From the other hand they had a nice chance to improve the FM/DM/Gunnery at that moment. We'll see...
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Since HT is now a pilot I bet there are some ideas he will want to implement in the FM that currently aren't in it:)
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
<<<Originally posted by Griego
I would like to see bullet holes in my canopy,planes etc...>>>
Bullet holes in your plane and canopy? Im sure theres lotsa guys willin to help you out. >>>
<<>>
I think the reason you see bullets tumble in the old ww2 films is because the camera's were so lousy. As far as accellerated stalls go. If you snap onto you back pulling g's at 225 mph you have experienced it. You might try zooming in when you shoot some dude,. You will have no trouble seeing him light up from the "small explosions":D
small explosion never ever seen small explosions zoom or not in AH. I've seen one big explosion. I've seen lots of hit sprites.
I didn't say bullets tumble I said tracers tumbled. From what I've gathered over the years is that tracers didn't quite follow the bullets because they tumbled because they were lighter that bullets . Thats why pilots like Grabreski didn't use them until close to were he was out of bullets. To let him know he was getting close.
After all that I realized that it was the the shaking of the gun cam could have made the tracer appear to be elongated. I think we do have canopy shake when you fire guns on a plane. then we should see this phenomenom.
If you ever played IL-2 and went headon with a con then you would know what a rush it is to see bullet holes in the canopy along with the oil. First time I seen that I just about fell out of my chair. :D
ok your right I have seen accelerated stalls in AH but only on a few planes like the typhoon and F4U. I've had the p51 way under 100mph and no stall. I the veritcal though. I all ways thought that the p51 had some bad stall characteristics.
Anyways I guess I could nit pick at every detail and since this all in my humble opinion anyways it really dosen't carry much weight.
just my 2 cents.
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Aper.....
Are you a rl pilot and if so, pls be more specific as to why we need a new FM.
Remember, to give us the FM we currently have in an effort to sim rl flight on a computer is not easy...HTC has done an excellent job.
Last night I got real slow in a Spit V while turnfightin....the plane went into a flat spin which i could not recover from.....very realistic flight characteristics for a VIDEO GAME!
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when the sun goes down I can't shoot for toejam, please fix that in AH 2 thanks.
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I'd like stalls to be modelled with buffeting and removal of the stall horn.
Clearly you are fortunate to have a force feedback seat, and can feel the plane enters a stall. Those less fortunate, such as myself, rely on the stall horn (or mitsu's most excellent buffeting sound). ;)
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Originally posted by Griego
After all that I realized that it was the the shaking of the gun cam could have made the tracer appear to be elongated. I think we do have canopy shake when you fire guns on a plane. then we should see this phenomenom.
Yes, but the difference between the human eye balls and a gun cam is very significant. In other words, it looks nothing like what a camera captures.
If you ever played IL-2 and went headon with a con then you would know what a rush it is to see bullet holes in the canopy along with the oil. First time I seen that I just about fell out of my chair. :D
And the wierd thing is, that damage graphic NEVER coincides with an oil leak... you can fly forever with oil all over your windscreen, but it'll never run out.
-SW
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>>I would also like to see Pamela Anderson knock on my door with a cam corder and a fist full of cash.Wake up. edited....Topless of course<<
Nekkid!...Nekkid!
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From what I can tell the performance of this game is right up there with any boxed game you can buy. The only thing I would like to see more of is weather, and terrain.
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As we started working on the mission theater, we realized we were making a completely new game from that which is Aces High today.
This lead us to starting work on AcesHigh II. Which will be 2 games in one.
1st.
AcesHigh Classic, which will be the Main areana as we know today, only with updated Graphic Eng,and other sim items, but the game play will be similar to what it is today.
2nd. The Mission theater. We need a better name for this. AcesHigh "Fill In the blank
What part that dont some yas of understand. Aces High will be the same game with updated graphics. Its not like wb 2.77 to wb3. They arent creating a new eng completely.
So the fm, which is fine btw, wont change. The mission theater and AH Classic arent different engs. They are the same with different "game" rules. Any advancement in one will be in the other, any new plane in one will be in the other. Except the ai component that ht is adding in the MT.
There 1 Aces High
2 Internal Games
1 AH Classic (main arena)
2 AH [Insert Name Here] (mission theater)
HT is not starting from scratch then porting over fms.
If you dont the fw now, you wont it like then.