Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: USBP1969 on December 11, 2019, 12:18:06 PM
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Howdy - I was browsing through AH maps and came across WINTERMA. Any chance of having that map for on-line use? I am currently residing in South Carolina and have seen snow but once in 21 years, so maybe folks up north are already tired of white, but I am enjoying flying on that map and it would indeed be "refreshing" for the MA.
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Unless the terrain builder furnished replacement skins for the defaults, there are issues with GVs standing out like a sore thumb against the white background. Even selecting winter skins won't help, because as a player, you can disable seeing skins.
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That map has snow on all the trees and bushes, so I believe that a GV could still hide as before. I can't test it though since it is currently an off-line map. The GV's would, I believe, stand out while crossing open ground a bit more though, but is still quite a refreshing map. One could say that it is even a "cool" map.
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When AH3 was under development I started making an MA terrain called Bearpit, partly because I was bored as there were no new skin shapes being made then and partly to help test the beta AH3 terrain editor. In the end I stopped working on it when HTC asked me to update CraterMA to be the new default AH3 terrain. When the new winter tile set was introduced I applied it to Bearpit and renamed it WinterMA.
Not sure why I uploaded this terrain to the host as it was nowhere near finished. Later on I did a bit more work on the Bearpit terrain but with the Med tile set, adding a road system and reworking some of the spawn to base routes with canyons, rivers and bridges as choke points. I reverted to the Med set because the winter tile set seemed just too uniformly white, I'd have liked a few patchy snow tiles or bare rock tiles to break things up a bit. Also the ETO and winter tile sets are too tree-heavy for my taste, the Med set is more open. Then as Easyscor mentioned there is the issue of players turning off player skins in order to gain an advantage. I don't think embedded skins are allowed for an MA terrain and even if I could embed winter skins for just the 3 or 4 main MA GV rides it would bump the terrain file size up considerably.
Having said all that if there is enough demand for a winter MA terrain I might be persuaded to finish this terrain with that tile set once I get bored with skinning P-38s.
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LAst winter during Jeager's tank nights he introduced a winter map. If you picked a winter skin for your tank it was very hard to see. So it WILL work. It made the night very interesting and great fun. Kudo's to him!
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If you pick a winter skin on a winter MA map then yes you will be very hard for other players to see. So knowing this what GVers in particular will tend to do is to disable other players' skins at their end. This way whatever winter skin you or any other player has chosen on your PC they will only see default skins. As a keen skinner I am loathe to encourage this sort of behaviour which is why I am ambivalent about making a winter MA terrain. I'd hope that even these win-at-all-costs players would re-enable skins for the rest of the MA terrains but then again some might not bother.
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Greebo, as you are heavily involved with HTC on the skinning side, you are probably the only one who could insert approved winter skins into an MA winter terrain. I lacked the time and inclination to create historical skins in avaetow so chose to use white-washed skins to mitigate the issue. If Hitech would approve for GVs only, that's 23 skins counting anti-air and LVT's. Not too bad for the download.
hehe, I'm not volunteering you here, but I don't know if anyone else can pull it off for the MA.
:cheers:
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My thought was that embedding any skin into an MA terrain would be against HTC's MA map rules. From past experience doing stuff like this is often forbidden for an MA terrain. So I'd need to get clarification from HT on whether it was OK to embed the skins and on how on big the resultant terrain file could be allowed to get before doing any work on this.
Assuming that it is OK then I think it would only be necessary to add winter skins for the most popular MA GVs such as the Panzer IV H, Panther, T34/85 and so on. I suspect that 75% of the GVs used in the MA consist of no more than 6 or 7 types. If just those were supplied with default winter skins then its unlikely most players would bother to disable player skins for the rest. Does anyone have a percentage breakdown of MA GV usage by vehicle type?
I can supply winter skins for any of the German GVs except the flak panzers but for any Allied tanks I'd have to ask other skinners if they would be prepared to contribute their work.
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My thought was that embedding any skin to an MA terrain would be against HTC's MA map rules. From past experience doing stuff like this is often forbidden for an MA terrain. So I'd need to get clarification from HT on whether it was OK to embed the skins and on how on big the resultant terrain file could be allowed to get before doing any work on this.
I believe you are right, and the reasons are understandable.
However for winter maps, it seems obvious on why a special waiver would be reasonable.
Hopefully you get that flexibility. It would be a nice change of pace.
:salute,
CptTrips
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No skins in ma terrain. If a big desire for it some one can make a texture set in a terrain and I'll make a new terrset from them.
I would also send the tree textures to be converted.
HiTech
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That's a shame, but not unexpected.
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I am not obviously checked out on the technicalities or the problems that would be encountered in setting up a winter map for on-line use.
I have been flying for fun on the WINTERMA in the off line maps and I love it! Since it available for off line use I thought that it wouldn't be hard to have it on line. Oh well.
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I am not obviously checked out on the technicalities or the problems that would be encountered in setting up a winter map for on-line use.
I have been flying for fun on the WINTERMA in the off line maps and I love it! Since it available for off line use I thought that it wouldn't be hard to have it on line. Oh well.
So what I get is yes, a map could be used with the winter textures but players could use non-winter vehicle and plane textures, which means most would.
So would planes and vehicles on a winter map using non-winter skins be a deal-breaker? I don't think so. Not ideal, but not a deal breaker. It would still be cool to fly over cool winter terrain.
No sense making perfect the enemy of good.
$0.02,
CptTrips
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The problem is not what skins players pick for themselves on a winter map. What bothers me is players turning off the ability to see other players' skins in order to gain a playing advantage and perhaps not turning them back on again when the map moves on. Given how many GVers turned off all ground detail in AH2 to gain an advantage I can see this being a big problem. As a skinner I do not want this to happen, so sorry but if I do take the time in to finish this terrain some day it probably won't be with the winter tile set.
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I guess I didn't understand what Hitech was saying. We already have a winter terrset in the game, and I thought he was saying that someone would need to compile (legal?) winter skins and send them in to be included directly into the (existing winter?) terrset.
I thought he meant it would be the official method instead of a builder adding them to a single use terrain, but it seems I'm the only one thinking that. If I'm right, it begs the question of which skins, and if both vehicles AND planes are required. I can see the need for winter skins on all GVs, the C47 and Fi156, and maybe the Stuka, but after that...?
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Word to the wise.... on winter sets do not set wingman to WHITE. Del was my wingman in a scenario and as soon as we met the enemy, he lost sight of me. I ended up on the deck with a gaggle of 109s and 190s. He was up at alt going... where's Shuff? LOL
We had some laughs over the years about that one.
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I would love to see a winter MA map, take what victories we can get! GV battles would get wild with winter skins, you wouldn't see my M18 until its to late. :rock Anyone know what Hitech drinks, we gotta bribe this man!
+1 Winter MA
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I would love to see a winter MA map, take what victories we can get! GV battles would get wild with winter skins, you wouldn't see my M18 until its to late. :rock Anyone know what Hitech drinks, we gotta bribe this man!
+1 Winter MA
It's the link in his sig
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I guess I didn't understand what Hitech was saying. We already have a winter terrset in the game, and I thought he was saying that someone would need to compile (legal?) winter skins and send them in to be included directly into the (existing winter?) terrset.
I thought he meant it would be the official method instead of a builder adding them to a single use terrain, but it seems I'm the only one thinking that. If I'm right, it begs the question of which skins, and if both vehicles AND planes are required. I can see the need for winter skins on all GVs, the C47 and Fi156, and maybe the Stuka, but after that...?
Re-reading what HT said perhaps you are right. I wasn't aware skins could be incorporated into a terrain set, but I guess a skin is just another texture as far as the game is concerned. My thought at the time was HT was just responding to my previous concerns about how uniformly white the winter tile set was and wanting some dark rock or patchy snow tiles. If a new or modded winter tile set was to be designed it would also be good if some of the ground clutter could be removed or changed. I seem to recall thinking at the time it was a bit odd to be driving through deep snow with fresh non-snow covered vegetation sprouting through it everywhere. I also wonder if some of the newer MA objects like bridges are snow covered in the current winter tile set. I'd be up for helping with such a project but I wouldn't be able to do it all by myself.
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I wasn't aware skins could be incorporated into a terrain set
The Finn who made the old FinnRus map for the AvA...I'm embarrassed I can't recall his name...had appropriate skins linked into that map. Only time I can remember having seen it.
- oldman
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The Finn who made the old FinnRus map for the AvA...I'm embarrassed I can't recall his name...had appropriate skins linked into that map. Only time I can remember having seen it.
- oldman
...wasn't it Panzzer?
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I suspect that I am not understanding very much about map making, but the WINTERMA seems OK except that the towns are not the same, but that could just be "variety." :)
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...wasn't it Panzzer?
My recollection is that the name began with a "K".
- oldman
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My recollection is that the name began with a "K".
Kantori?
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Greebo, I've always preferred Ghostdancer's tiles on the winter terrset for the game because it's a less deep winter white. I wonder if that's what Hitech was talking about.
Load avaetow into a custom arena and take a look at the combination. I think it is the best possible, except for my white-washed GVs not being up to HTC standards. Still, they work very well and show what an MA might look like.
If Hitech is referring to the a desire to use those terrset textures, I don't think Ghostdancer wouldn't object and they were used in-game for a couple of SEA terrains as well as avaetow.
avaetow has the default eto summer diffuse textures swapped out, and then the whole package, _E, _D etc, in the terrset/texsrc folder is installed into the terrset04 set. The GVs were installed into the normal texsrc folder. That gives it all the winter trees, clutter, and pre-built winter bases etc. + the GVs.
If I understand Hitech correctly, including the GVs in the default package for the current 04 winter and any proposed winter terrain (05?) would be a best possible solution.
See what you think.
Edit: opps, forgot to mention I had to swap out the winter .swa files to put the trees in the same place. Simple enough to change the names of each summer tree type to the appropriate winter tree type. I must say, it wasn't an exact name for name work, there were gaps in the winter tree set. All of the work I did is available for the asking. If the files weren't so large, I'd already have posted them.
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Kantori?
Thanks ccvi - That's him. Kantorri built the FinRus original map. I haven't seen him around for a while. :(
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Thanks for the suggestion Easyscor, before I do any more work on Bearpit/WinterMA I will check out avaetow. From what you say I think I probably could make my own terrset05 winter tile set with the winter skins included but if I did so I think I'd also want to change some of the clutter from terrset04. From long experience I'll also need to make absolutely sure that what I want to do is allowed for an MA terrain before spending any time on this.
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I suspect that I am not understanding very much about map making, but the WINTERMA seems OK except that the towns are not the same, but that could just be "variety." :)
WinterMA as it was uploaded does not have a proper road and rail system which means it would not be allowed as an MA terrain. Since then I have added the roads and railways, done some work on adjusting firing arcs for shore batteries. Also some detail work on some of the spawn to base routes, adding bridges, checking terrain slopes and changing ground textures to create clear firing areas and ambush spots. However all this work was done with the Med terrain set, if I changed back to a winter tile set I'd have to redo most of this for the new ground textures. Even if I kept the Med tile set there is still a lot more of this detail work to do.
Designing an MA terrain consists of a small amount of interesting work like laying out the fields and designing the topography followed by a large amount of tedious micro management and bug checking. For this terrain I've done most of the former and not much of the latter, so it's a question of getting motivated to do all the nitty gritty stuff that still needs to be done. Assuming we read HT correctly and creating a winter tile set with winter skins is allowed then that might give me an incentive to finish the terrain. However it would also depend on whether doing stuff like changing ground clutter in the tile set is allowed and my past experience has been that doing anything remotely interesting usually isn't for an MA terrain. To be honest I'm not in the mood to work on terrains at the moment but when I am, have got time and know more about what I want to do I'll bug HT with some questions.
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Why does a winter-terrain need to be a separate terrain? Wouldn't it be sufficient if for every terrset X there's a corresponding terrset Xw, which is... white? All trees at the same spots, except covered in snow instead of leaves?
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I'll also need to make absolutely sure that what I want to do is allowed for an MA terrain before spending any time on this.
Absolutely! Yes.
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Why does a winter-terrain need to be a separate terrain? Wouldn't it be sufficient if for every terrset X there's a corresponding terrset Xw, which is... white? All trees at the same spots, except covered in snow instead of leaves?
Again, the default skins are NOT winter skins and that makes them stand out in front of any white winter background. So to clarify, anyone disabling skins will not see your attempt to use a winter skin on the current winter terrset, they'll see the default green summer skin currently. So trying to use a winter version of any current MA terrain would have issues unless the winter version came with default winter skins for the vehicles.
The nice thing about this is that you could still use a non-default winter skin on your vehicle and even if someone has skins turned off, they would still see the winter default while you see your non-default winter skin. That means it would work exactly the same as the summer set of skins now. I've seen guys driving around in the winter default jagdpanzer 39 skin on a summer terrain making them an easy target. Same kind of thing in revers, checking your skin before you leave the hanger would matter.
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Again, the default skins are NOT winter skins and that makes them stand out in front of any white winter background. So to clarify, anyone disabling skins will not see your attempt to use a winter skin on the current winter terrset, they'll see the default green summer skin currently. So trying to use a winter version of any current MA terrain would have issues unless the winter version came with default winter skins for the vehicles.
Yes, understood. My question was for even below the terrain editor. Intesad of any specific new map that referrs to a new specific winter terrset the game itself could winterize all maps by swapping out the data below. That the data below includes skins (or at least a definition of which skin is the default skin) is clear.
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Yes, understood. My question was for even below the terrain editor. Intesad of any specific new map that referrs to a new specific winter terrset the game itself could winterize all maps by swapping out the data below. That the data below includes skins (or at least a definition of which skin is the default skin) is clear.
I don't think the various tile sets (ETO, PTO, Med and Winter) were designed to be interchangeable in this way. So a rocky texture on one tile set may be a farm texture on another. So in this example a terrain designed with near vertical rocky cliffs on would then have near vertical farmland when the tile set was swapped. In general swapping a tile set means re-texturing the entire terrain by hand in the TE.
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I don't think the various tile sets (ETO, PTO, Med and Winter) were designed to be interchangeable in this way.
Yes. I'm not suggesting to replace eto with winter or pto with winter, but eto with eto-winter, pto with pto-winter, and med with med-winter. And by replacing I don't mean selecting x-winter when building the map, but selecting the variant when loading it in the game. There could also be x-spring and x-autumn variants.
I am aware that this isn't currently possible. A way to select and switch the variant of the terrset would need to be added to the game. But this is the wish list board, after all.
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When AH3 was under development I started making an MA terrain called Bearpit, partly because I was bored as there were no new skin shapes being made then and partly to help test the beta AH3 terrain editor. In the end I stopped working on it when HTC asked me to update CraterMA to be the new default AH3 terrain. When the new winter tile set was introduced I applied it to Bearpit and renamed it WinterMA.
Not sure why I uploaded this terrain to the host as it was nowhere near finished. Later on I did a bit more work on the Bearpit terrain but with the Med tile set, adding a road system and reworking some of the spawn to base routes with canyons, rivers and bridges as choke points. I reverted to the Med set because the winter tile set seemed just too uniformly white, I'd have liked a few patchy snow tiles or bare rock tiles to break things up a bit. Also the ETO and winter tile sets are too tree-heavy for my taste, the Med set is more open. Then as Easyscor mentioned there is the issue of players turning off player skins in order to gain an advantage. I don't think embedded skins are allowed for an MA terrain and even if I could embed winter skins for just the 3 or 4 main MA GV rides it would bump the terrain file size up considerably.
Having said all that if there is enough demand for a winter MA terrain I might be persuaded to finish this terrain with that tile set once I get bored with skinning P-38s.
+1000 for a winter MA map
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No skins in ma terrain. If a big desire for it some one can make a texture set in a terrain and I'll make a new terrset from them.
I would also send the tree textures to be converted.
HiTech
+1000
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I don't wish to sidetrack this, but since Kanttori was mentioned I invite you to check out the throttle consoles he's building now. https://www.kanttorinkone.com/console.html
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I don't wish to sidetrack this, but since Kanttori was mentioned I invite you to check out the throttle consoles he's building now. https://www.kanttorinkone.com/console.html
WOW!
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I don't wish to sidetrack this, but since Kanttori was mentioned I invite you to check out the throttle consoles he's building now. https://www.kanttorinkone.com/console.html
:confused: holy cr@p. That is amazeballs. Strange he doesn't mention Aces High on his page... :headscratch:
Anyways, who is going to do a winter terrain set for us? :x
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there are already some tanks that have winter skins.
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Winter >>> nights
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Winter >>> nights
Oh crap you reminded me! Hey man if winter maps = longer or more night it's a hell no! Please no!
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