Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: sgtdeaux on October 27, 2005, 08:35:58 PM
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AH staff... Bomber pilots have a bone to pick with you.
We pay our 15.00 a month just the same as the fighter pilots do.
However It would seem that you dont regard us as important to the online community... Perhaps we are not making as much noise as the fighter pilots.
Here is some noise... PLEASE add some new bombers...not the B-25 however. The B-25 is an overgrown fighter.. while it adds some interesting historical value to the game it does nothing to increase the modivation to bomb in any other manner than to blast in at 2k and level a base.
The addition of heavy bombers such as the B-29 or the Pe-8 would be of historical significance and Balance in the main arena.
The current setup of the game is at the least Anti-bomber. Yesterday I flew two missions at 30k in a bomber and after shooting down 4 or 5 interceptors I was finally downed... Funny thing. twice I was attacked by the same guy in BF-109 G10. This has to be stopped.. Either limit the re-up time or perk planes capible of reaching high altitudes in such rapid time. It is very discouraging to be attacked 10 times on a bombing run to eventually die because youve run outta ammuntion due to the "endless upper" equation.
THank you for your time..
-sgt deaux
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Once you get good at shooting, the ammo lasts longer. Buff guns have convergance set at 500meters, so if the enemy is off that zone you can save ammo by shooting only one position rather than all (check keyboard settings).
Most players feel the fighter/bomber equation is slanted toward the bombers, because the gunner has 20-30 50cal weapons at his command with little accuracy penalty for wobble, etc. Also, most AH2 attackers conveniently come up the 6 -- making kills easy. Some guys are scary good at the attack profiles, tho...
"Endless upping" happens because solo 30k bomb runs are "endless flying." Interceptors' climb rates are accurate, like it or not -- and the G10 is not a perk plane. If you dont like getting killed by the same guy, get good at killing HIM. I've no bomber ace, and I've killed the same guy twice on a run.
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Incase you have not been paying attention, the main focus right now is ToD. After the spit/109 update they will begin work on remodeling the B17, so we will have both B17G and B24J ready for ToD. I would not be surprised if such planes as B17F and B24D were added in the B17 update.
After the B17 update either the british or germans will likely see an update since most of the US ToD planeset is ready. The Lancaster will probably be worked on soon or the Ju-88. When the Lancaster is remodeled you will probably see a Helifax and/or Wellington. When Ju-88 is remodeled an HE-111 is very likely.
The B29 does not have a place in AH2 yet and is not needed. It is strictly a Pacific Theatre plane and we just are not there yet. Same applies to the Pe-8 (except it is an eastern front bomber)
Take a deep breath in... and out. Now aren't we feeling better?
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Originally posted by Raptor01
I would not be surprised if such planes as B17F and B24D were added in the B17 update.
Not going to happen. If we were getting the D we'd have got it with the J, no two ways about it :)
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I AM good with the bomber guns.
However Being good with the guns and not being able to land and reload after fending off 10 planes over the course of the flight means you will eventually run outta ammo.. The tilt is in favor of the fighters.
To illustrate this point.
Today I bombed an airbase in B-26's from 12k.
Not an uncommon altitude for that plane in a historical sense.
I managed to take down 4 fighters over that base.. to include the same guy 2 times.
I began a mad sprint home knowing the LA-7 flood would soon begin.
Sure enough up came 4 LA-7's the same people who had just met a firey death 10 seconds earlier. I managed to down two of them before they got one of my drones.
The next pass by the two remaining interceptors caught one of my engines on fire. As we all know due to the fact that fire extenquishers have not been added to this game this is instant death for a bomber. I was now down to just my lead bomber.. I killed another LA-7 and wounded the 2nd.
By this time the other two had re-upped and where rapidly moving to intercept once again.
I managed to down another one before I was shot down 1 mile from an allied airfield.
Now. Since I assume we can all count I wont go into numbers of intercepters upped and numbers shot down but, as you can see the equation is not heavily in favor of bombers. I am a skilled bomber pilot and gunner I put up a battle to the very end but even with actions that would have been awarded the medal of honor in WWII it was not possible to even curtail the endless attack of the "eternal upping uber planes"
-sgt deaux
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When we got the B24, it was not really centered on ToD but more of a "First new plane in a couple years, lets make it big" (hence Ki84 and T34 along with the B24)
Now that they have had practice with remodeling planes, they can put out new planes fairly quickly (compared to when work started on the first new planes)
Remove the front turret and make minor changes to FM and there you go.
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You're comparing real WW2 to this? Medal of Honor?
Okay let's talk real bombers. In the real war. THOUSANDS of bombers, in the largest group formations you can find, WAY more than simple 3-plane formations that AH has, can all cover each other far better and defend each other. The ability to defend rises geometrically with the number of bombers in the formation....
So these THOUSANDS of bombers went up against less than a hundred fighters at a time --- and were wiped out to the point that the USAF had to halt daylight bombing until long range escorts could be produced.
The lesson? Dude, you got almost 10 freakin kills in a bomber! Congrats!!! But if you want to LAND take an escort of fighters. Only takes 1-2 to distract every last enemy plane.
You're playing the wrong way. You're playing to get the most kills, not to land safely afterwards. If you play to land safely afterwards you might not land any kills at all, but you will land. You have to choose what you want -- more kills (keep flying like you do) or safe landings (honestly? Rethink how you bomb -- take a 2-man escort team)
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The paragraph above include the phrase.
"My mad dash for home"
I did not stop to have a cigarette.
I did not stop to play the claranet.
I did not have green eggs.
I did not have ham.
I just ran ran ran.
but as fast as I ran sam I am.
I still ended up in a jam.
Because of the endless fighter spam.
please put a timer on re-upping.
-sgtdeaux
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Wont happen, people do not play a game to sit in a tower for a minute+ after being shot down. Think how a new player would feel, he would be too frustrated sitting in tower more than flying he would likely not continue to play the game.
sgtdeux, can I suggest joining/starting a bomber squadron or playing with the mission planner. Think of how you are going to attack a target, it is not wise to bomb a target then turn around behind enemy lines and follow the same path out.
Also after dropping thier salvo, WW2 bombers would usually go in a shallow dive for a few hundred feet to leave the combat area faster. The B26 has WEP (ineffective at low alts, more effective the higher you are) which may also help leave the combat zone quicker. I know a B26 cannot outrun an La7, but a B26 at 12k can usually get out of visibility range of a fighter that just took off. While the La7 is climbing, you are in level flight and can cover a larger distance until they level off.
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I don't know what to say to this:confused: Except, bad idea.
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See Rule #4
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Why is it that any idea that is not yours is stupid?
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they might be a little combative cuase they didn't think of it:aok
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See Rule #4
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I'm glad you like them. Insult me all you want, it doesn't make you or your point look any smarter:aok
The reason it's a bad idea is as Raptor already stated, ppl don't want to sit in a tower. Not all of us play to live. I and many others enjoy fighting to the death and don't care about losing a virtual airplane. We don't play for realism, we play to relax after work and have some fun. HTC has to balance between players like you and players such as myself. If you don't want to die, don't lioter over target so long. I use to buff often when I first started. Unless I wanted to I never had problems being reintercepted by the same guy.
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I think you can change settings in the H2H rooms if your host to how long a person stays in tower or sumthin like that:confused: not sure though
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Sgt Deaux killing 4 or 5 of more fighters in a bomber is alot, even in AH standards.
What do you think the guy you killed twice say about bombers?
He was a in a fighter, it's been historicaly proven that bombers are (most of the time) minced meat when attacked by fighters when the bombers lack escort, even the heavily armed B17's and B24's.
If you don't wanna die on your 30k high alt long range missions after killing 5 enemies already I sugest you fly with friends, that way you will have twice the amount of guns and twice the amount of ammo.
The bombers are too dangerous if anything
Today I bombed an airbase in B-26's from 12k. Not an uncommon altitude for that plane in a historical sense.
Looks like you wanna "fly" historical, or atleast in this case compare it to historical altitudes and yet you complain after killing 4 fighters (again). Do you think this happaned often during the War? B26 came in mid alt then shot down 4 fighters?
You're mixing historical comparisons with the game ones in order to make the best for your self. Or atleast that is my impression.
Final point, no thanks, MA is Furball Arena, like it or not. I am not too fond of it, I think it has passed a point where the endless furball and and gangbang has come too far and made the game boring.
Do what I do, take a break, wait for ToD...
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Originally posted by sgtdeaux
I AM good with the bomber guns.
However Being good with the guns and not being able to land and reload after fending off 10 planes over the course of the flight means you will eventually run outta ammo.. The tilt is in favor of the fighters.
To illustrate this point.
Today I bombed an airbase in B-26's from 12k.
Not an uncommon altitude for that plane in a historical sense.
I managed to take down 4 fighters over that base.. to include the same guy 2 times.
I began a mad sprint home knowing the LA-7 flood would soon begin.
Sure enough up came 4 LA-7's the same people who had just met a firey death 10 seconds earlier. I managed to down two of them before they got one of my drones.
The next pass by the two remaining interceptors caught one of my engines on fire. As we all know due to the fact that fire extenquishers have not been added to this game this is instant death for a bomber. I was now down to just my lead bomber.. I killed another LA-7 and wounded the 2nd.
By this time the other two had re-upped and where rapidly moving to intercept once again.
I managed to down another one before I was shot down 1 mile from an allied airfield.
Now. Since I assume we can all count I wont go into numbers of intercepters upped and numbers shot down but, as you can see the equation is not heavily in favor of bombers. I am a skilled bomber pilot and gunner I put up a battle to the very end but even with actions that would have been awarded the medal of honor in WWII it was not possible to even curtail the endless attack of the "eternal upping uber planes"
-sgt deaux
Wheh is the last time you had a formation of three fighters flown by
a single pilot attack you? You have three chances to survive a flight as
opposed to a fighter pilot's single shot.
The largest difference between WW2 and AH should be glaringly
obvious, one being a game. Trust me, in the service you do not have
the ability to choose your own aircraft or even your own target.
If you have a tough time returning to base, maybe you should try
another approach rather than ranting to HTC about how difficult the
path you did choose is.
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I'm in the service and am more than aware of having ones direction picked as seen fit.
AND im very aware that this is a game.
I am pointing out that bombers have a marked disadvantage in the game due to the fact that interceptors have a limitless ability to re-up and intercept using uber planes like the LA-7.
See bombers hit target.
See bombers run like hell.
See bombers defend against first wave.
See bombers defend against 2nd wave.
See bombers die because of endless uppers.
Die bombers die.
I dont know how to explain it any simpler than dick and jane style.
-sgtdeaux
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Bombers should have a marked disadvantage, they are bombers. That is why they needed escorts during WW2.
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Originally posted by sgtdeaux
Why is it that any idea that is not yours is stupid?
Because this idea has been posted over and over and over and over and over and having seen it so many times we still don't like the idea of sitting, doing nothing. The climbout has enough of that already.
As to bombers, well, the unescorted, heavily armed bomber fighting it's way to the target and home proved to be one of the bad ideas of WWII. It didn't work and produced unsustainable losses.
If/when we get some Mossie bombers you can try sheer speed and see if that can get you home. I have had good luck in getting home in the Ki-67 when I drop from 22,000ft. It does a bit over 330mph there and that is hard for fighters to climb up to.
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this has got to be a troll, nobody is that stupid... :D
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Originally posted by toadkill
i just want to clearify that the bk have no right to refer anyone to the rules.
???:huh
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sgtdeaux:
The real answer to your problem is not what bomber you take or how HTC needs to tilt things towards the bombers and away from fighters. The real answer is in how you make your bomb runs.
Like anything in this game, if you go up alone against numbers (whether in a bomber, fighter or GV), you deserver what you get...gang banged. It isn't fun, but it is what is going to happen. If you are the only set of bombers attacking a given area, then yes, some schlep is going to up and up and up and come ruin your fun. Why, because that's what's fun to him.
Anyway, for the solution: Don't milk run by yourself. Get several people together to take bombers and escorts and go hit the target you're after. Seriously. At the very least, get at least three people as part of your bombing groups and fly a tight formation. That way, because of mutual coverage and all that, it will be pretty sure suicide for anyone to just keep upping against your group.
The alternative, keep getting upped against until you run out of ammo and get shot down.
Oh....and don't insult the B-25 :mad:
Seriously, it was involved in WW2 much longer and performed many more functions that the B-29. If you want to talk historical, the B-25 should be added before the B-29 ever sees the light of the virtual day.
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Originally posted by megadud
this has got to be a troll, nobody is that stupid... :D
Don't be so sure, I think he's serious....
As I understand his stated "logic", he thinks that because 3 lone bombers can't do deep penetration and exit survivably, everyone else in the arena should literally have to wait in the tower until he lands.
Hasnt really addressed the issue of 3xbombers with single control of 30xguns. I think what he really wants is a glowing powerup that lets you reload ammo instantly in air....
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Hey mouth breather thats not at all what im saying.
The point im attempting to make plebian is that a SHORT DELAY perhaps 30 seconds between uppings would at least allow bombers more time to flee as opposed to being mobbed constantly.
However since everything on this forum in regards to helping bomber pilots is to receive a flaming I figure I might as well throw this in.
These fighters need to be perked.
LA-7
BF109-g10
P-51D
Niki
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i will not flame i will just say that you are a tard and your entire idea is retarded. That is all.. carry on...
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Originally posted by sgtdeaux
Hey mouth breather thats not at all what im saying.
The point im attempting to make plebian is that a SHORT DELAY perhaps 30 seconds between uppings would at least allow bombers more time to flee as opposed to being mobbed constantly.
However since everything on this forum in regards to helping bomber pilots is to receive a flaming I figure I might as well throw this in.
These fighters need to be perked.
LA-7
BF109-g10
P-51D
Niki
there ya go butterers.
flame on that for a bit.
You've been given several good reasons why it's a bad idea and several solutions. The point we are trying to make to you is fly smarter. I'll go over them again, this time read them, think about them for a few and see if it can make sense for you.
Bad idea because:
-Force players to sit in tower.
-Punishes new players who aren't as good and will die a lot.
Solutions:
-Climb higher to give yourself more time.
-Drop all ordinance in one run.
-Get fighter support or even more guys to go buffing with you.
Like what was said earlier, you want to be able to fly your lone formation into a target. In real life and in this game it doesn't work. You just need to fly a little smarter.
I don't understand how you can say the bomber guys are getting the raw end of the deal. Let's see:
-You have a lazer EZ bomb site.
-You have THREE planes.
-At anyone time will there be no less than 6 guns firing at a target(more like 12).
And finally, I find it funny you think people not agreeing with you as flaming. You've been given several good reasons why not to and several solutions for yourself. All you ever come back with is, "No, you're wrong". Why not address the ideas listed above and give reasons why what the rest of us have stated are bad ideas? Remember, this is a game with many people. It's not what's best for you, it's what's best for the communtity.
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Originally posted by sgtdeaux
I'm in the service and am more than aware of having ones direction picked as seen fit.
AND im very aware that this is a game.
I am pointing out that bombers have a marked disadvantage in the game due to the fact that interceptors have a limitless ability to re-up and intercept using uber planes like the LA-7.
-sgtdeaux
You've got 3 planes and 18 .50 machine guns at your disposal and technically, you also have the limitless ability to re-up.
And as everyone else has pointed out but yet you can't seem to grasp is that if you want to survive, bring along a good gunner and get some escorts.
ack-ack
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Superdud and AKAK pretty much said it.
Also, why would the Niki ever have to be perked? Because it's got 4x20mm slow firing cannons? It's a not even a very popular plane anymore.
Don't agree with the P51 and 109 G10 either but won't go into why, it's been discussed over and over and the poor dead horse just keeps getting beaten.
Simple fact is we don't agree with you, we're tried to help you by saying how it should be done and try to explain "why" your tactic gets you killed eventually. We're not flaming you (well most of us aren't).
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Give it a rest trolls.
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Sigh, you've just made a complete fool of yourself.
After being given advice and help you go on to blaiming "trolls" because people don't agree with you.
I'll let you in on a lil secret, when posting sugestions/comments/demands or whatever, there will always be people who DO NOT AGREE with you.
Accept it.
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Originally posted by sgtdeaux
:cry
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"mouth breather" is a put down????
:huh
I'm wagering that the planes that keep shooting the good sgt down are the...Niki, the pony, the lala, and the G10....
In any case, let me put the issue simply for you, as the more complete and (apparently) more difficult to understand explanations ably provided above havent made much impression.
When you challenge the entire enemy air force by doing a deep penetration raid alone, you are like a cow carcass in the pirhana pool. The predators will swarm until you are gone.
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What could EVER make you think that Simaril? :D
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Originally posted by sgtdeaux
The point im attempting to make plebian is that a SHORT DELAY perhaps 30 seconds between uppings would at least allow bombers more time to flee as opposed to being mobbed constantly.
You have to get shot down three times to end your flight and your flying a death star. Very few times can I attack a bomber formation and live. And you complain. Geeze....
I think maybe bomber pilots should have to wait at least 10 seconds before they can switch planes. If they hit the ground before then...Oh well......Should have been higher.
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bad idea Lye-El
bomber pilots shouldn't have 2 wait to switch planes
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Originally posted by RAIDER14
bad idea Lye-El
bomber pilots shouldn't have 2 wait to switch planes
lmao But i bet you want the fighter pilots get the 30 sec to up delay .
Tell ya what perk formations , eliminate god view , and make buffs use bomb sight in the level bombers. Then you can talk about a 30 sec delay.
Also eliminate the jump possiton untill ya loose the plane you are in.
Bronk
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uhhhh, we *do* need the b-25 it was too important to be left out.
Of course some other bombers would be cool too like the he-111, do-217, russian junk that i have no clue about, betty and some other ija fire-bombs-waiting-for-a-match.
we do *not* however, need the b-29.
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Originally posted by sgtdeaux
Here is some noise... PLEASE add some new bombers...not the B-25 however. The B-25 is an overgrown fighter.. while it adds some interesting historical value to the game it does nothing to increase the modivation to bomb in any other manner than to blast in at 2k and level a base.
Bite me. I want the B-25.
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Originally posted by sgtdeaux
pilots.
Here is some noise... PLEASE add some new bombers...not the B-25 however.
-sgt deaux
Lmao this was one of the most used bombers during ww2.
Now as for the b29 wasn't used till the near end of the war. So in my opinion should be one of the LAST planes to enter the plane set.
So many holes in the early plane set you could drive a semi-truck through it.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Simaril
"mouth breather" is a put down????
:huh
Yeah, when you put "Slack Jaw," in front of "mouth breather"
Next time you see one you will laugh :rofl
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I want to start a bomb group modeled after the 376th heavy bombardment group. I will be the co as the 376th and will have an xo, who will be the 515th squad. there are two other squads to represent. each squad needs a pilot, and at least 1 gunner. i would like to have at least 2 squads in the air o fight in missions, and in the main combat arena. fighter pilots are welcome to join in the plane of their choice (allied only) as long range escorts. this is still in the planning stages, but if your interested please reply to this. remeber, with bombers there is safety in numbers!
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OK.... Heres my .02 cents. How bout the ability to carry multiple gunners like we had in Air Warrior and up a deathstar!:D I can remember taking part in and lingering over Fighter Town in Big Pac arena in a deathstar and landing 15 -20 kills on a regular basis in a death star. Also if the person in the particular position gets killed the others can switch and fight over it just like in AW. :lol I'd rather have it that way anyhow! I also agree that the B-25 has a lot of historical signifigance and deserves to be in the plane set!!:aok
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I know what you meen, i just realized last night that you can only have 1 gunner per plane. That just means that i'm gonna need more planes to do this right. 5 gunners per plane would be great, 3 planes 15 positions, that would be a formidable force. so i'll just beef up the number or bombers, and recruit more escorts.
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lol, so you want to stop all the fighter guys from upping so that you can get your bombers home?????
ROFLMFAO!!
its never gonna happen, this game is an aircombat simulation. bombers are in here to give a little extra to gameplay, but bombers aren't the main focus of this game. just hold on, you will get more bombers in time, and maybe learn how to fly a fighter too, you'll have more fun while you wait
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Originally posted by sgtdeaux
Hey mouth breather thats not at all what im saying.
The point im attempting to make plebian is that a SHORT DELAY perhaps 30 seconds between uppings would at least allow bombers more time to flee as opposed to being mobbed constantly.
However since everything on this forum in regards to helping bomber pilots is to receive a flaming I figure I might as well throw this in.
These fighters need to be perked.
LA-7
BF109-g10
P-51D
Niki
So you "claim to be proficient" and having L337 skillz in the Buff gun. Why on earth would you want a delay? In a sense, you are "limiting your quantity of killz" to a certain extent.
Think of yourself covered in a gasoline and holding a candle. Seems kind of pointless, no?
Karaya
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Karaya, note that he's PNG....you'll wait a long time for a response.
Course, he's PNG because of his responses, so you're not missing much!
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Originally posted by Simaril
Karaya, note that he's PNG....you'll wait a long time for a response.
Course, he's PNG because of his responses, so you're not missing much!
LMAO! Cool beans. How's "Sim" doing these days?
Karaya
PS - I normally work 7am-11am on Sundays for overtime. Today, I came in at 3am to cover a shift. I feel a nap coming on. :aok
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Doing great!
Look to see you in MA....
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hey simiral, nice avatar, 513 squadron of the 376th HBG? the 376th is the squadron i'm trying to start.
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OK.... Heres my .02 cents. How bout the ability to carry multiple gunners like we had in Air Warrior and up a deathstar! I can remember taking part in and lingering over Fighter Town in Big Pac arena in a deathstar and landing 15 -20 kills on a regular basis in a death star. Also if the person in the particular position gets killed the others can switch and fight over it just like in AW. I'd rather have it that way anyhow! I also agree that the B-25 has a lot of historical signifigance and deserves to be in the plane set!!
Let me rephrase that, Get rid of formations and have only one bomber and let it be manned by multiple people. :aok
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I like to fly behind the bombers about 800 to 1000 out just rolling and looping till they use up all that ammo:aok
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Heh...heh.... I flew this game a couple of years ago and just never really liked bombing in it. But then you didnt have the drones.... so the other day when I finally got it working on my new X2 system, I was flying a long in a pj... I saw three bombers, blew the poop outta them and they just kept on going. I didnt know until now that there was one "mother ship" (for lack of a better word) and two drones lmao!! Ok I get it... but which one do you have to kill, or which one is the M/S?
To reply to sgt's post... and the many replies..... this is really a discussion that nobody will ever be happy with. I flew more milkruns in AW than most, and can say this for sure.... no gunners, no escort, you have a very high chance of death! Period. Everyone buff driver thinks the game is skewed for fighters, and every f/p thinks the buff's have an unfair advantage. It is the same at work, with the dispute between dayshift and night shift... it is always there, always will be... Anyway, unless EA cracks open the vault, buys some old outdated Packard Bell Servers and chunks up AW3 (b4 the update, that stopped the 17's from out turning spits );) sgt you either get escorts, form/join a squad or just live with the fact that AH is the way it is.
It is obvious that they like it this way. You have plenty of options too! You can listen to the reasonable people and change your tactics, join/form a squad, live with it the way it is or go fly WB. I wouldn't hold my breath on AH changing anything, there would be more whining from the f/p's than they want to deal with!
Just my 2 cents!
Hi Ack-Ack!
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Good God Men...This is a "Wish" list...remember?
Why all the hoopla?
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If your worried about your ammo just take a few little friends with you, I do all the time and get 1-4 kills and land them. Problem solved, if you want to be a loner and make runs by your self expect to die a lonely death. your choice. yes to the B-25 no to the B-29.
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Guy A flying the bomber, shoots down Guy B.
Guy A keeps flying trying to leave area.
Guy B reups to go kill Guy A cause he's in bombers and bombers must die.
Guy A shoots down Guy B again.
Guy A is still trying to get away and sure enough Guy B has re-upped.
Guy B finaly kills all bombers because he wore down the group from his last few outtings.
Guy A gets worn down
Guy B gets new fighter each time.
Guy A is still flying same bombers with less ammo and damage.
In my opinion guy B had his chance the first time. He got shot down. He should not have an option to re-up a plane to go after the bomber group he got shot down by for 2 minutes and not within 50miles. If he wants to go kill something that bad he can go to the other plethera of fields that are being attacked or defended against and get his jollies off getting his kills.
For all the historical aspect of it, Sure alot of the thousands of bombers that went out never made it back, but is there any documentation of a german pilot getting shot down and being able to re-up another fighter, climb to alt (20-30kish), and attack same bomber group that had kept a straight line for home?
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Originally posted by Wolf14
Guy A flying the bomber, shoots down Guy B.
Guy A keeps flying trying to leave area.
Guy B reups to go kill Guy A cause he's in bombers and bombers must die.
Guy A shoots down Guy B again.
Guy A is still trying to get away and sure enough Guy B has re-upped.
Guy B finaly kills all bombers because he wore down the group from his last few outtings.
Guy A gets worn down
Guy B gets new fighter each time.
Guy A is still flying same bombers with less ammo and damage.
In my opinion guy B had his chance the first time. He got shot down. He should not have an option to re-up a plane to go after the bomber group he got shot down by for 2 minutes and not within 50miles. If he wants to go kill something that bad he can go to the other plethera of fields that are being attacked or defended against and get his jollies off getting his kills.
For all the historical aspect of it, Sure alot of the thousands of bombers that went out never made it back, but is there any documentation of a german pilot getting shot down and being able to re-up another fighter, climb to alt (20-30kish), and attack same bomber group that had kept a straight line for home?
If you get attacked by the same guy 3 times you're doing something wrong. Recently I went on a 10K run in B17s. I shot 2 down on my way to target, one being iceman24. I did my run and rtbed still at 10k. Well on the way home, sure enough here comes iceman again. This time he crushed me, doing very nice slashing attacks because he knew i could shoot and he couldn't just sit off my 6 like the 1st time. IF I would have killed him again I would have made it home no problem. But he wised up, and was more careful with the approach. In all my years playing I've never ran into the same guy more than twice unless I wanted to(deathstar) or they took a 163/262. There's no need to punish the fighters, just fly smarter. Get higher and get some help, ask if another bomber guy wants to go with you. You can normally find someone. If it's just you, don't go for impossibley defended targets. Also, practice on only making 2 bombing runs(preferrably one). Drop majority of ord on the 1st pass. And if you have any left, drop it on the way back to base. Hovering over the base is asking for troubles.
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I find it hard to believe I am in agreement with a BK.. (JK) but as a former bomber pilot and current dedicated bomber killer Altitude is your best friend. Heavy bombers usually flew at 25K according to boeing, the B-17 is capable of 35K. With the current EZ-Mode bombing you can hit ANYTING (barring THICK clouds over target) At any altitude.
Recently I took Lancs to 27K and arrived near a serious trouble area when we were under severe GV attack from a few bases. I took out 4 VHs AND 2FHs at 4 bases with zero misses. At that altitude I was ALMOST immune to attack. I had 5 followers at one point but since I was light I started a slow climb to 32K... They alllll faded away.
VERY few fighters perform at that altitude, the (historically best) bomber destroyer we have SHOULD be the A8 but it is a deathtrap (as modeled) over 21K. At that alt fighters just barely keep up with you and are slow moving targets and the bomber gun advantage is even more enhanced.(Yes, I said gun advantage since vibration, muzzle jump and buffeting IN BOMBERS are not modeled)
So, do like I do, pop some popcorn, grab a beer or 10 and grab some altitude if you're gonna do the lone wolf runs. Don't run medium bombers unless you go in a group, with escort OR just accept the inevitable before you take off.
Good luck!
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Sgtdeaux,
I am with you in that more bombers are needed for the plane sets - English, Russian, Japanese & Italian are sadly lacking.
But I think everyone agrees we need "AT LEAST" 5 or 6 more versions of the Spitfire, Me-109 & P-51 first. :rolleyes:
Some advice:
1. Get the HELL out of the MA as fast as your bomber will carry you.
2. Come over and join a Allied or Axis bomber squad in the AvA. You will have guys to fly with and you (thus better Defense) and most likely will have escorts about any time you ask for them.
While the AvA has it's problems unique to the arena - it tends to be more historical most of the time.
! :aok
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Originally posted by Wolf14
Guy A flying the bomber, shoots down Guy B.
Guy A keeps flying trying to leave area.
Guy B reups to go kill Guy A cause he's in bombers and bombers must die.
Guy A shoots down Guy B again.
Guy A is still trying to get away and sure enough Guy B has re-upped.
Guy B finaly kills all bombers because he wore down the group from his last few outtings.
Guy A gets worn down
Guy B gets new fighter each time.
Guy A is still flying same bombers with less ammo and damage.
In my opinion guy B had his chance the first time. He got shot down. He should not have an option to re-up a plane to go after the bomber group he got shot down by for 2 minutes and not within 50miles. If he wants to go kill something that bad he can go to the other plethera of fields that are being attacked or defended against and get his jollies off getting his kills.
For all the historical aspect of it, Sure alot of the thousands of bombers that went out never made it back, but is there any documentation of a german pilot getting shot down and being able to re-up another fighter, climb to alt (20-30kish), and attack same bomber group that had kept a straight line for home?
Historically...how many bombers did a single individual fly at the same
time?
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Originally posted by Wolf14
Guy A flying the bomber, shoots down Guy B.
Guy A keeps flying trying to leave area.
Guy B reups to go kill Guy A cause he's in bombers and bombers must die.
Guy A shoots down Guy B again.
Guy A is still trying to get away and sure enough Guy B has re-upped.
Guy B finaly kills all bombers because he wore down the group from his last few outtings.
Guy A gets worn down
Guy B gets new fighter each time.
Guy A is still flying same bombers with less ammo and damage.
How did he catch you 3 times? Loitering or doing the 1K bomber formation thing?
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Originally posted by ZENMS
Heh...heh.... I flew this game a couple of years ago and just never really liked bombing in it. But then you didnt have the drones.... so the other day when I finally got it working on my new X2 system, I was flying a long in a pj... I saw three bombers, blew the poop outta them and they just kept on going. I didnt know until now that there was one "mother ship" (for lack of a better word) and two drones lmao!! Ok I get it... but which one do you have to kill, or which one is the M/S?
to answer this question... there is no "mother ship"
if you kill the lead, one of the drones becomes the lead. if you kill a drone the lead and other drone keep on going.
basically you get to fly 3 planes, or you get to kill 3 planes depending on your point of view :aok
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Originally posted by Lye-El
How did he catch you 3 times? Loitering or doing the 1K bomber formation thing?
I'll be honest, I exagerated a lil bit. At most I shot one guy down twice and almost a third but I was able to land. He upped from a field in front of me the second time and the third was the same field he upped from the second time. The field I was landing at was near that field. Due to fuel levels I didnt have an option to go to another field toland.
I was just trying to illustrate a point that to some degree as a bomber pilot, I too feel that in some cases the gaming balance for bombers is slanted. I just feel that the same guy who can re-up with a fresh plane each time to come and try to shoot me down after shooting him down is being given the instant win button. A bomber even with all its guns and multi controled planes, after being shot up, doesnt have any advantage over the fresh fighter. Keep in mind to, My argument is toward the guy who keeps re-upping and being a salamander determined to get the last word in.
As far as loitering, that is something I really try not to do. I want to get in, drop, and get out. If I extend out and come back to drop what I have left, I still get out. I also try to use the correct bomber for the altitude. If I take up heavies I am usualy anywhere from 12-30k. I find people who only seem to know how to do low level dive bombing runs with heavies rather lame.
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I think you are correct Sim, after looking at the posts, BomberJockey and sgtdeaux are most deffinately the same person.
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we need a HALIFAX! now!
:noid
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for god sake u people are PATHETIC. sgtdaux just wanted to know if fighter are gettin more praise than bombers.u guys did the same thing to me when i posted my thead about the A20. i totaly agree with sgtdaux and jester and who ever supported but dont wast valuable time bringin up a totaly different subject. read the thread CAREFULLY and think before u write u people reallt need to grow up
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I think you are the one that needs to learn how to read. If you notice, this thread is OVER 3 MONTHS OLD and sgtdeux is long banned from the BBS. Quit crying like a kid and grow up.
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GET BENT.
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what bombers do we want in game? somebody make a list of them.:noid
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B29
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Originally posted by Wolf14
For all the historical aspect of it, Sure alot of the thousands of bombers that went out never made it back, but is there any documentation of a german pilot getting shot down and being able to re-up another fighter, climb to alt (20-30kish), and attack same bomber group that had kept a straight line for home?
AH is not a WW2 simulation and as such any comparisons to how WW2 was fought and this game is meaningless.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by WindX
Let me rephrase that, Get rid of formations and have only one bomber and let it be manned by multiple people. :aok
HiTech has already said many times that will not happen for the same reason there aren't rear view mirrors on some of the planes that had them.
ack-ack
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your probobly right:noid
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your probobly right:noid
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Originally posted by Raptor01
The B29 does not have a place in AH2 yet and is not needed. It is strictly a Pacific Theatre plane and we just are not there yet.
Take a deep breath in... and out. Now aren't we feeling better?
I do not feel entirely better. In what way does the B29 not have a place yet? What does the Pacific Theatre have to do with MA?
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Originally posted by ChopSaw
I do not feel entirely better. In what way does the B29 not have a place yet? What does the Pacific Theatre have to do with MA?
hes just sayin they workin on other things that are more important right now chill Hitech has alot of fires going right now they working on it. all this stuff takes time. there is no snap of fingers and its done. this stuff takes alot of time to work on and ToD is at the top of the list. think of it as any company will whats going to make you more money and for Aces High to make more money right now is ToD it will atrack more people to the game. more people on the game more 14.95 a month they get. this game is far better then any other fighter, ground vehicle, and bomber sim. give them time and they will make up grades to the game. just remember it does not happen over night