Aces High Bulletin Board

Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Baumer on October 20, 2009, 12:57:35 AM

Title: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Baumer on October 20, 2009, 12:57:35 AM
The November FSO will be the invasion of the Philippines in 1941. The write-up can be found here;

http://ahevents.org/pacific-theatre/too-little-too-late-philippienes-december-1941.html (http://ahevents.org/pacific-theatre/too-little-too-late-philippienes-december-1941.html)

Registration is now open, and will close Wednesday October 28th.

Please note that the first frame will be on November 6th, we will have two Fridays off before the first frame. This is to accommodate the upcoming holiday season.


Too Little, Too Late- Philippines December 1941

(http://ahevents.org/images/stories/TLTL-First.jpg)

December, 1941

Painting by Keith Ferris

Lt. Joe Moore in his Curtiss P-40B Tomahawk at 22,000 feet, nine miles west of Clark Field. Over the smoke below is Petty Officer First Class Saburo Sakai's Zero pursuing Lt. Sam Grashio in his P-40E. In the foreground is Fort Stotsenberg's parade ground and in the distance is Mount Arayat. 

This FSO Setup will attempt to recreate the air battles that took place over the Philippines in December of 1941.


(http://ahevents.org/images/stories/TLTL-Second.jpg)

Plane Set / Rules
Allied:

Axis:

NOTE: The aircraft requirements will vary per-frame, please refer to the objectives for the appropriate numbers.

Side Split-

45% Allies

55% Axis
 

Scoring:
Will be points based, with an even split between Air-to-Ground (A2G) points and Air-to-Air (A2A) points. Each object at an assigned target (that can be destroyed) will have an assigned point value. The attacker will score points for each object destroyed, and the defender will score points for each object that is not destroyed at that target.The point value of each pilot will be determined  by the total A2G potential points divided by the number of pilots who actually fly in the frame.
 
Aircraft Scoring:
You will score Air-to-Air (A2A) points in the following two ways.

   1. Each enemy aircraft shot down
   2. Each successful landing in an aircraft prior to the end of frame ( landing as a gunner will not count )

(http://ahevents.org/images/stories/TLTL-Third.jpg)

Ground Targets:

Players will earn points for objects destroyed on the ships even if they are not sunk.

    * Ammo Bunker- 50
    * Auto Gun Emplacement(Armored)- 63
    * Auto Gun Emplacement(Hard)- 3
    * Auto Gun Emplacement(Soft)- 1
    * Barracks- 50
    * Bomber Hanger- 449
    * Fighter Hanger- 449
    * Fuel Tanks- 50
    * Manned Gun (Armored)- 63
    * Manned Gun (Hard)- 3
    * Manned Gun (Soft)- 1
    * Radar- 50
    * Structure- 50
    * Vehicle Hanger- 449
    * Aircraft Carrier (CV)- 2094
    * Cruiser (CA)- 1471
    * Destroyer (DD)- 1021

(http://ahevents.org/images/stories/TLTL-Fourth.jpg)

Arena Settings:

    * Terrain – Luzon
    * Icon Range – Short
    * Radar – Off
    * Fighter and Bomber Warning Range – 10,560 -2 miles
    * Formations- OFF
    * Tower Range – 10,560 (for display to match the above setting)
    * Visibility – 17 miles
    * Wind: None

    * Clouds: TBD
    * External view for bombers (F3) – On
    * Friendly Collisions – Off
    * Enemy Collisions – On
    * Kill Shooter – Off
    * Fuel – 1.0
    * Ack – 0.2
    * Time – (See Objectives)
    * Bombsite calibration – MANUAL CALIBRATION
    * Evening- 2100


Specific Rules:

   1. Each B5N2 and B-17G that lands successfully at the end of the frame will receive a x5 pilot bonus.
   2. The B-17G can only carry 100lbs bombs.
   3. The B-17G must carry 100% fuel
   4. After T+30 there will be an Allied PT vs. Japanese Destroyer battle. Aircraft are not allowed to attack either side. Each Allied player will have 2 lives in PT boats. More details will be provided in the Frame Objectives.


You can contact all the squads on your side here.

http://ahevents.org/fso_email/mail_address.html

Please note the updated rules.

http://ahevents.org/fso-related/fso-rules.html
Design by Baumer
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Saxman on October 20, 2009, 08:59:45 AM
Wow, we REALLY need a B-17D.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: branch37 on October 20, 2009, 09:02:02 AM
whats the difference in the B-17G and the D?  :headscratch:
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Saxman on October 20, 2009, 11:24:00 AM
Quote from: branch37 on October 20, 2009, 09:02:02 AM
whats the difference in the B-17G and the D?  :headscratch:

(http://www.markstyling.com/pto_b17s/pto01.jpg)

B-17D

(http://www.acepilots.com/planes/b17g_profile.jpg)

B-17G

Aside from the obvious visual and (more importantly) armament differences, NO B-17Gs saw action in the Pacific. The latest variant that did was the F. The 17D would be the most appropriate for this time period.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: gyrene81 on October 20, 2009, 12:23:50 PM
There were only 42 D models built...the E (512) or F (3,405) models would be more appropriate. Reference 43rd Bomber group stationed at Port Moresby New Guinea.

(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1318/1322485974_a6613f84c5.jpg?v=0)

(http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/4/0/7/1008704.jpg)
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Saxman on October 20, 2009, 01:01:03 PM
I wasn't aware of there being any 17Es deployed in the PTO as early as this scenario (1941).

Either way, it's still a bit of a gap in the plane set.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: branch37 on October 20, 2009, 01:52:36 PM
Thanks Sax  :aok  I never knew there were variants of the B-17 that were THAT different  :rofl
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Reschke on October 20, 2009, 02:20:52 PM
Factsheet on B-17D
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=2451

Factsheet on B-17G
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=2454
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: gyrene81 on October 20, 2009, 02:37:35 PM
Quote from: Saxman on October 20, 2009, 01:01:03 PM
I wasn't aware of there being any 17Es deployed in the PTO as early as this scenario (1941).

Either way, it's still a bit of a gap in the plane set.
Well...reportedly there were 21 D models sent to Hickman field early 1941 and more later.

Quote
The B-17D was the first version of the aircraft seen to be fully combat ready, and three quarters of the aircraft produced were sent to the Pacific. The first twenty one aircraft were sent to Hickman Field, Hawaii, leaving Hamilton Field, California, on 21 May 1941. This was the first time a large group of bombers had flown so far over the ocean, but the aircraft arrived intact, within five minutes of their estimated arrival time. They were allocated to the 5th Bombardment Group. In September nine aircraft were transferred to the 19th Bombardment Group on the Philippines, where they were joined by another 26 aircraft in November 1941. Finally, on 6 December 1941 six B-17Ds of the 7th Bombardment Group took off from the United States on the first stage of their journey to the Philippines. Their next stop would be at Pearl Harbor.

Five bombardment groups used the B-17 in the Pacific. Of those two (5th and 11th) began the war with the Hawaiian Air Force., which soon became the 7th Air Force. They were then transferred to the 13th Air Force and took part in the campaign in the South Pacific, fighting in the Solomon Islands. The 7th and 19th Bombardment Groups were either in the Philippines or on their way in December 1941. They took part in the Allied retreat through the south west Pacific, ending up in Australia, where they were joined by the 43rd Bombardment Group. The 19th and 43rd groups remained in the south west Pacific with the 5th Air Force, while the 5th Bombardment Group was sent to India to join the 10th Air Force in May 1942.

On 7/8 December 1941 the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor and the Philippines. The majority of the twelve B-17s on Hawaii were destroyed on the first day of the war. On the Philippines eighteen B-17s were destroyed. Only the 14th Bombardment Squadron escaped the destruction, having been sent to Del Monte field just before the attack. By the end of the first day of the war in the Pacific only seventeen B-17s were left in service.

If this FSO was to include that little tidbit...max of 17 Fortresses operational...that would work for me.

Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Reschke on October 20, 2009, 03:17:52 PM
Man that would be a tough one to try and keep your B-17's functional for the duration. But then you also have to limit the numbers of US aircraft in total that were available to them at the beginning of hostilities as well.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: ghostdancer on October 20, 2009, 03:23:21 PM
Actually we have done that before. 68KO designed a Mindanao event where the allies only get I think 21 or so B17s. Those you lost you didn't get in the following frames. So if the CiC deployed say 21 in frame 1 and lost 5 then the CiC in frame 2 could only deploy a maximum 16 in frame 2.

The event worked because it was hard for A6M2 had a hard time taking down a B17G (usually takes about 3 of them to do it) and the allied escorts in the P40s really, really were attentive in defending them since they knew everyone lost was not replaceable.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Reschke on October 20, 2009, 03:33:11 PM
Hard to do this accurately without following the actual items available to the FEAF at the right time. However if you substituted an aircraft (has happened before) you might be able to pull it off.

FEAF, 8 December 1941

SOURCE: AAF Historical Study No.34, The AAF in the War Against Japan, 1941-1942

The final FEAF order of battle:

    * V Bomber Command
          o 19th Bomb Group (Heavy) (Headquarters, Clark Field)
                + 14th Bomb Squadron (Del Monte Field, 5 December, 8 B-17)
                + 28th Bomb Squadron (Clark Field, 8 B-17)
                + 30th Bomb Squadron (Clark Field, 9 B-17)
                + 93rd Bomb Squadron (Del Monte Field, 5 December, 8 B-17)
          o 27th Bomb Group (Light) (without aircraft)
                + 16th Bomb Squadron (Fort McKinley)
                + 17th Bomb Squadron (San Fernando Field)
                + 91st Bomb Squadron (San Marceleno Field)
          o 2nd Observation Squadron (Nichols Field, 21 various aircraft)
    * V Interceptor Command
          o 24th Pursuit Group (Headquarters, Clark Field)
                + 3rd Pursuit Squadron (Iba Field, 18 P-40E)
                + 17th Pursuit Squadron (Nichols Field, 18 P-40E)
                + 20th Pursuit Squadron (Clark Field, 18 P-40B)
          o 35th Pursuit Group (headquarters en route to Philippines)
                + 21st Pursuit Squadron (attached 24th PG, Nichols Field, 18 P-40E rec'd 7 December)
                + 34th Pursuit Squadron (attached 24th PG, Del Carmen Field, 18 P-35A rec'd 7 December)
          o 6th Pursuit Squadron, Philippine Army Air Corps (Batangas Field, 12 P-26)

The number in () indicate the number of aircraft estimated in commission. Where un-noted, the number of usable aircraft is unknown.

    * A-27: 9
    * B-10B: 12
    * B-17C/D: 35 (33)
    * B-18A: 18
    * P-26/P-26A: 16 (12)
    * P-35A: 52 (18)
    * P-40B/E: 107 (72)
    * O-46: 10
    * Other: 46
    * TOTAL: 307
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: ghostdancer on October 20, 2009, 06:10:21 PM
A-27, that is what I was thinking of it was Thai airforce plane right? I A-24s (the army version of the SBD) would probably make a good substitue for it.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: StokesAk on October 20, 2009, 08:48:08 PM
this looks fun.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Fencer51 on October 20, 2009, 09:26:57 PM
Quote from: ghostdancer on October 20, 2009, 06:10:21 PM
A-27, that is what I was thinking of it was Thai airforce plane right? I A-24s (the army version of the SBD) would probably make a good substitue for it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NicholsField.jpg

Looks like armed Texans.

A-27 (NA-69) 1939 = POP: 10 ordered by Siam, but were instead impressed by the Army, redesignated A-27 [41-18890/18899], and assigned to the Philippines, where they were destroyed in Japanese bombings during Dec 1941.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Saxman on October 20, 2009, 11:51:04 PM
Almost would like to see SOME sort of additional strike craft for the Allies on this. Knowing you're going to see B-17s makes planning a bit easier for the Axis (as easy as attacking B-17s in a Zero can get, at least).
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 21, 2009, 06:11:42 AM
Quote from: Saxman on October 20, 2009, 11:51:04 PM
Almost would like to see SOME sort of additional strike craft for the Allies on this. Knowing you're going to see B-17s makes planning a bit easier for the Axis (as easy as attacking B-17s in a Zero can get, at least).

Despite what happened in the actual conflict, this is going to be a rout in favor of the allies with only a 45-55 split, so I wouldn't worry about it.  Whatever confidence I had in the A6M2, and it wasn't much, was completely eroded away in the Coral Sea scenario where everyone flew both sides at some point.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Reschke on October 21, 2009, 08:33:29 AM
Quote from: Fencer51 on October 20, 2009, 09:26:57 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NicholsField.jpg

Looks like armed Texans.

A-27 (NA-69) 1939 = POP: 10 ordered by Siam, but were instead impressed by the Army, redesignated A-27 [41-18890/18899], and assigned to the Philippines, where they were destroyed in Japanese bombings during Dec 1941.

A-27 information
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_A-27

Note the part where it states that it was the attack version of the BC-1 which later evolved into the Texan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC-1A
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Plazus on October 21, 2009, 09:20:24 AM
P40s escortin B17s... This should be quite interesting.  :)
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: gyrene81 on October 21, 2009, 11:15:57 AM
Should be renamed Turkey shoot.

Is it too late to reconsider the side percentages or maybe discuss the airframes available?

The Ki-43 is missing...and although we don't have the type1 available maybe allow for 1 squadron of Ki-43s?
Rather than have all P-40s maybe set the limits of the P-40Es to 2 squadrons and toss in 2 squadrons worth of Brewsters and some TBMs or SBDs?

If nothing else set the sides to 60 - 40?
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Baumer on October 21, 2009, 11:43:39 AM
This will be fine gentleman, the B-17's will be very limited and the targets that they will have to attack are going to be very difficult to hit.

Has anyone tried sinking a CV group with a single B-17 and 100lbs bombs (don't forget to take 100% fuel)? Give it a try offline and don't forget the B-17 and B5N will get bonus points for landing at the end of the frame.

Also the P-40E's will be very limited and have to carry ordinance to boot. The vast majority of Allied pilots will be in P-40B's for most of the time so the balance should work out fine.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 21, 2009, 01:04:55 PM
Quote from: Baumer on October 21, 2009, 11:43:39 AM
Also the P-40E's will be very limited and have to carry ordinance to boot. The vast majority of Allied pilots will be in P-40B's for most of the time so the balance should work out fine.

Even then... :uhoh

Not every FSO is supposed to be fair! :P
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: gyrene81 on October 22, 2009, 12:04:35 PM
Quote from: Baumer on October 21, 2009, 11:43:39 AM
Also the P-40E's will be very limited and have to carry ordinance to boot. The vast majority of Allied pilots will be in P-40B's for most of the time so the balance should work out fine.
I'm not a balance person...I just think there are some planes missing and the sides need to be a bit more lopsided in favor of the IJN, but no biggie...should be a good fight.

And I stand corrected on the number of B-17s during the initial hostilities for the Philippines...records indicate it was 35 serviceable (no versions).

But then the Japanese came with both land and carrier based planes...5th Air Group and 11th Air Fleet with a total of 604 aircraft including small numbers of recon and seaplanes. I believe the mix of bombers to fighters was pretty much 1 to 1 (1 fighter to 1 bomber).

Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Baumer on October 22, 2009, 12:26:15 PM
Well the interesting thing about this is that the Philippines had ample warning about what happened at Pearl Harbor. They even scrambled all the B-17's early on the 8th when there were enemy contacts on radar. However, just before noon they all RTB'ed for fuel. The radar at Clark field spotted IB enemy planes more than 140 miles out. For some unexplained reason only the pursuit squadrons were alerted, and the bombers just sat on the ground during the attack, with over 1/2 destroyed.

In the aftermath of Pearl Harbor many generals and admirals had to face court inquiry's about what happened at Pearl and were removed from command. There was never an inquiry into what happened in the Philippines and why so much equipment was allowed to be destroyed when ample warning was given.

As for the balance, I believe that most people would rather have a fair and balanced FSO rather than fight a "historically accurate" FSO. I try to balance them as best I can, but to have one side with a clear disadvantage would only drive away participants in my opinion. I hope we'll be getting some new planes to fill out this plane set as well but for now this will have to do.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 22, 2009, 02:23:55 PM
Sub the Brewster for the Ki-43! :banana:

 :noid
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: gyrene81 on October 22, 2009, 02:33:01 PM
Quote from: Anaxogoras on October 22, 2009, 02:23:55 PM
Sub the Brewster for the Ki-43! :banana:

 :noid
Say what?  :huh   :headscratch:

Dork... :D
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: morfiend on October 22, 2009, 11:07:22 PM
 Sounds interesting Baum,given the limited planeset and no real substitutions available I think you've done the best you can.

 Sure it would be nice to have more A/C options but the fact is we dont,I think we play the hand we're dealt and have fun.Otherwise just dont bother,I know Mr Baumer always puts way to much work into these events and with some of the responses I've seen it makes me wonder why he'd even bother.

   :salute
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: ghostdancer on October 23, 2009, 10:24:04 AM
I think I have come up with a solution for subbing in the Ki-41.

All allied pilots will be give a two bottles of Grey Goose vodka and must finish it before frame. I am sure we will have some of them report they encountered Ki-43s in the frame. ;)
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: haasehole on October 23, 2009, 10:35:15 AM
allied pt boats sounds fun... will the axis ships be able to man the ships guns ?  :salute
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: gyrene81 on October 23, 2009, 10:45:37 AM
Quote from: morfiend on October 22, 2009, 11:07:22 PM
Sounds interesting Baum,given the limited planeset and no real substitutions available I think you've done the best you can.
Actually there is 1 plane missing for the Japanese (aside from the useless sea planes and scouts)...although I have yet to find the exact numbers my investigations thus far leads to speculation that 1 squadron based on Formosa was equipped with Ki-431A's from the 5th Air Group...everything else in the Japanese set is good.

The rest of the setup appears to be accurate as to available planes with the exception of a few A-27s which could be sub'd with SBD's or Brewsters...but they weren't a reported factor in the ensuing battles.

What's going to be really interesting is what the objectives for each side will be...pork the FH!!!  :D
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: jay on October 24, 2009, 01:09:50 AM
i hope my squad is american and atleast flies bombers once  :pray :pray  :rock
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Reschke on October 25, 2009, 11:32:32 AM
Honestly call me a glutton for punishment but flying for a side that is hampered due to history sounds really good to me. The fighter side is the great equalizer and I think that given the penchant for all of us cartoon plane drivers spending inordinate amounts of time doing "training" I think that we are at least 5 times more qualified combat pilots than any WW2 pilot in the various types of aircraft represented. Therefore it would not be an utterly defenseless American response that would be mounted against inbound Japanese aircraft; like the ones that happened on December 8, 1941. Rather one that is immensely prepared to beat the Japanese with the resources at hand.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: FiLtH on October 27, 2009, 08:18:27 AM
Woohoo hope we are allies!
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: FBJester on October 29, 2009, 01:18:25 PM
Looks like a good one, great set-up, we really look forward to friday nights  :cheers:
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: daddog on October 31, 2009, 01:14:04 PM
http://ahevents.org/fso/view_assignments.html

Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Baumer on October 31, 2009, 03:05:05 PM
Side assignments and objectives have been sent.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: FBJester on November 03, 2009, 12:55:32 PM
<S> We still dont have a ride sir, just wondering what we do next as we are new to FSO.

thanks
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Anaxogoras on November 03, 2009, 01:01:53 PM
Wait for your orders, that's when your aircraft is specified.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Baumer on November 03, 2009, 01:17:53 PM
Sorry FBJester I guess the email is sent didn't work. You will receive your specific orders from your CiC later this week, you should have them Wedneday night or Thursday at the latest.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: daddog on November 03, 2009, 01:20:06 PM
^
What they said. :)

Objectives are sent out by the CM's the weekend before the frame. The CiC's then work on the orders based on the objectives that were sent out. So for example this week the orders are created by TracerX and Ruger44. They will tell what squads to fly, what to hit or defend, routes, ordnance/fuel to carry, target altitudes, escorting assignments, etc. You get the idea. :) Once you get the orders from the CiC look them over for any errors or something you don't understand. CiC's are good about getting back right away to answer questions.  After that you are all set for Friday night. :)

Allied CiC's
FRAME 1 on 2009-11-06 - TracerX - USMC / 71sqn
FRAME 2 on 2009-11-13 - Dantoo -- 9GIAP VVS RKKA
FRAME 3 on 2009-11-20 - Ponyace - Hellcat Fighter Group

Axis CiC's
FRAME 1 on 2009-11-06 - Ruger44 - VFA-169 Excaliburs
FRAME 2 on 2009-11-13 - tuk151 -- WD40
FRAME 3 on 2009-11-20 - Stage2 -- 77th FS Gamblers
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: FBJester on November 03, 2009, 05:12:05 PM
got it thanks   :cheers:
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Boxboy on November 06, 2009, 11:00:01 PM
well first frame is done and I lasted about 2 minutes after the P40's showed up and pigpiled us with faster planes,  :rofl when the odds are 10 v 1 manuvering is a joke and when the bombers are 100 mph faster than your fighter well................. makes for a short day in the sandbox :uhoh

As predicted this will be a "turkey shoot" for the allies.  I will look forward to my next 2 minutes in the next 2 frames and then we can move on . :furious
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Stampf on November 06, 2009, 11:21:27 PM
 :lol

Slaughtered here too.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Saxman on November 06, 2009, 11:55:48 PM
Most important points I drilled into my squad leading up to tonight: Stay together and drag and bag. The fighter sweep over C83 ended up as a melee so our wingman assignments largely broke down, but every time one of us picked up a bandit we had a friend there watching for it to clear him off. I rarely even picked my own target after the initial merge. Instead my target was the bandit latched on to my nearest buddy's Six. And our local fight was largely equal numbers at that (9GIAP was supporting us as top cover, but our two squads were eventually separated once the fight heated up).

I don't think it would have mattered if the Allies had F4Fs instead of the faster P-40s if you combine the airframe durability and better guns with solid communication and teamwork.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Plazus on November 06, 2009, 11:58:12 PM
Us 82nd werent quite slaughtered in our A6Ms, but we had one helluva good fight at A5. <S> to those P40s that fought against us defenders. Despite the fun times tonight, Ill be honest to say that Im looking forward to the next FSO scenario.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Saxman on November 07, 2009, 12:31:28 AM
As I do with any PTO setup, I'm gonna miss it when we're back in Europe again.  :P
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: boomerlu on November 07, 2009, 01:00:08 AM
We did well in the first part of the Op, then stuck around too long and got horded. It must have been 3:1 :lol. Oh well, good fun.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: TinmanX on November 07, 2009, 01:10:07 AM
What's with all the PT nonsense on the logs?
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: gyrene81 on November 07, 2009, 09:53:46 AM
Quote from: TinmanX on November 07, 2009, 01:10:07 AM
What's with all the PT nonsense on the logs?
You didn't read that? It's in the setup information...pt boat fight against the cv convoys. It was to see how many would be interested in something like that as part of an FSO in the future.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: M36 on November 07, 2009, 10:15:02 AM
Last night was enjoyable and the Sick Puppies were happy to be back in FSO's. Im hoping to clear up my confusion about having to rearm. We flew B5N's from C73 to V68, bombed and returned to C73. I started seeing messages about rearming and by the time I found out we needed to, two had towered. One damaged his prop on take off back to the target, two got up and returned with gunners. Due to the length of time to return to V68, C73 was destroyed and there were no bases within a reasonable distance to land at. This resulted in the two being captured when told to land at the end of the frame. I saw in the orders that rearming is permissable at any base, but did I miss the part that said that our flight needed to rearm and return, after returning to the carrier?

Thanks to the Swamp Dragons for the escort. All of us got to the target and were able to bomb the Vbase.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Dadsguns on November 07, 2009, 11:02:07 AM
With all the concerns of P40's being outnumbered:

USAAF stats:
Pilots: 194 Kills: 188 Assists: 162
Objects Destroyed: 134 Deaths: 166 Landed: 104
Bailed: 12 Captured: 14 Crashed: 15
Ditched: 15 Disco'd: 14


Japanese stats:
Pilots: 290 Kills: 189 Assists: 122
Objects Destroyed: 120 Deaths: 139 Landed: 340
Bailed: 31 Captured: 33 Crashed: 39
Ditched: 15 Disco'd: 17


Axis had nearly 100 more pilots and managed 1 more kill than allied?     :lol

I bet most of these kills came from the PT war.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Boxboy on November 07, 2009, 11:15:05 AM
Quote from: Dadsguns on November 07, 2009, 11:02:07 AM


Axis had nearly 100 more pilots and managed 1 more kill than allied?     :lol

I bet most of these kills came from the PT war.

Just shows the desparity of the plane sets, when WWI plane set gets here you could assign those to the axis and get ever better allied numbers :rofl
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: DrDea on November 07, 2009, 11:22:10 AM
 The B5N2 had no front guns remember. You could outnumber the allied with a million of those and still end up all dead.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Dadsguns on November 07, 2009, 11:51:25 AM
Quote from: DrDea on November 07, 2009, 11:22:10 AM
The B5N2 had no front guns remember. You could outnumber the allied with a million of those and still end up all dead.

Loading up with those is the like the center of a tootsie roll lollipop, cant wait to get at them for the easy kill.   :aok

Quote from: Boxboy on November 07, 2009, 11:15:05 AM
Just shows the desparity of the plane sets,,,,,,

Hugely understated.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: AKDogg on November 07, 2009, 11:58:58 AM
Quote from: boomerlu on November 07, 2009, 01:00:08 AM
We did well in the first part of the Op, then stuck around too long and got horded. It must have been 3:1 :lol. Oh well, good fun.

I was the lone p40E vers u 7-8 that were following me to ur death.  You shouldn't have chased me 1 full sector from ur target , hehehe.  After the 3 squads you guys had to our 1 and wiped us out, I said to my self, I gonna be bait and drag ur butts to you demise.  As you see, ur squad fell for the trap.

 :salute :salute :banana:
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Baumer on November 07, 2009, 11:59:55 AM
The B5N's had the second highest survival percentage of any aircraft on either side.


With the landing bonus it could make significant difference in the score.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Dadsguns on November 07, 2009, 12:08:52 PM
According to the Plane set Side Split it was supposed to be a Side Split of-45% Allies/55% Axis,,, which is more like a 60/40 split for Axis.


Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: AKDogg on November 07, 2009, 12:12:07 PM
At the start of the frame, axis had 90+ pilots more then allied.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Stampf on November 07, 2009, 12:14:51 PM
Quote from: AKDogg on November 07, 2009, 11:58:58 AM
I was the lone p40E vers u 7-8 that were following me to ur death.  You shouldn't have chased me 1 full sector from ur target , hehehe.  After the 3 squads you guys had to our 1 and wiped us out, I said to my self, I gonna be bait and drag ur butts to you demise.  As you see, ur squad fell for the trap.

 :salute :salute :banana:

Actually we were not in pursuit of you, per se.  We made a tactical decision ( a bad one) to loiter the whole frame rather than RTB, and head north toward 117.  

Our 3 squads consisted of JG11 in (14) zero's.  VF-6 only had (4) zero's I believe, and the 15th were in B5N's.

Nice work at the end.  My gawd it was a sea of red.  A good day to die for the Emperor.

 :salute
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: boomerlu on November 07, 2009, 01:06:57 PM
AKDogg! Hey! Say hi to Dustoff for me will ya? :D Greed kills whether you're flying a Zero or a P40. :devil
 :salute
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Vulcan on November 07, 2009, 06:22:26 PM
Quote from: M36 on November 07, 2009, 10:15:02 AM
Thanks to the Swamp Dragons for the escort. All of us got to the target and were able to bomb the Vbase.

But not all of ya got home :D
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: M36 on November 07, 2009, 07:14:32 PM
Quote
But not all of ya got home Big Grin

So, your the one? :rofl Was it the nice target my squadies  painted on the bottom of my plane that drew your attention to me?

<S> to ya, I guess it had to be someone.   :aok
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Anaxogoras on November 07, 2009, 08:06:53 PM
I got catapulted trying to back up onto the rearm pad even with my tail-hook up.
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Chapel on November 08, 2009, 11:18:44 AM
That happened to a LOT of people Anax. After I got shot off the tail, I watched from F3 mode and saw at least another 5-6 planes do the same thing.
Was kind of funny in retrospect, but I was quite annoyed at the time. =)
Title: Re: November FSO- Too Little, Too Late- Philippienes December 1941
Post by: Frodo on November 08, 2009, 02:01:31 PM
This bug has been around forever.  :old:  :airplane: