Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sandman on September 13, 2001, 05:43:00 AM
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I've been reading a lot of the news on BBC.
Here's an interesting article on why the Arabs of Palestine cheer.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1540000/1540364.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1540000/1540364.stm)
[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: Sandman_SBM ]
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Sandman
I don't cheer when I hear about innocent men, women and children anywhere being killed for whatever reason. I don't think any CIVILIZED society would. Their actions help to further isolate their cause from the sympathies of many.
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Eagler,
No society cheered. A few thousand loons in the streets and some refugee camps cheered.
The vast, vast majority of people in all nations, including Palistinians, are horrified, saddened and angered by what happened.
Let's not lower ourselves to the level of blind hatred.
Let us focus our anger and fury on those who planned, executed and funded this and those who directly harboured them. They must pay. They absolutely must pay.
Let us be true in our justice.
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Eagler your country is supporting a country which is occupieing parts of other sovereign countries and is killing innocent people(and some not so innocent with them).
In light of that fact I can understand why some uneducated people are cheering.
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The only reason Israel occupies parts of countries and causes collateral damage is because the diddlying arabs are attacking them. The only reason they occupy the west bank and gaza is cuz they beat the diddlying toejam out of their attatckers.
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real black and white to me..
if you cheer the death of Americans, you are my enemy ... period.
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Interesting article... thanks for posting it. Its good to look at this from all the angles. That way, we can more effectively terminate those responsible for the attack on America.
(edited to avoid any misunderstanding)
[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: Gunthr ]
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Originally posted by Eagler:
real black and white to me..
if you cheer the death of Americans, you are my enemy ... period.
I see no justice in this statement. Thankfully, cooler heads lead our nation.
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Israel had WAR made upon it in the 70's by all neighboring arab nations. The arabs were defeated. Yet Israel gave back land won with their blood for peace. Yet the arab world continues to attempt to distroy the land of Israel. Now just who is the problem in the middle east? Not Israel and not the US.
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The whole argument is fake. It's a blatant lie, in the sense that's only half and superficial truth.
The deep one is that we have an organized, whealthy and, by my standard, evil power that uses people's primary instincts to fuel anger against an enemy. Western countries could be perceived as causing Palestininan or whatever other country's misery. Apart from being false, this is not relevant, as to what are the ultimate cause of this aggression and what we should expect from now on, or even if solving that problem would solve the Terrorist War one. Don't fool yourselves. This is not a palestinian or even arab issue. This is a muslim fundamentalist in first instance, and a perverted morality system ultimately, if you widen the scope to accomodate all terrorists. In the particular case of the muslim fundamentalists, when they (eventually) have Palestina back, they would ask for more. Their goal is not land or justice. Their goal is to prevail over western sinful societies. And this as far as Laden's struggle. But you can extend to whatever terrorist group you can think of: people ready to kill inocent people and commit mass murder to defend certain ideology.
Palestinians are current Laden's aliby. He is using anger to unite them against western countries, starting with Big Brother U.S.A. He will use his success in striking U.S.A. to enhance cohesion amongst his followers. But, sadly, he will not want to stop until western countries way of living is buried. His funds come not only from his personal whealth, but from islamic organizations throuought the world, so it's not an individual alone. He has quite a bit of simpatizers. And he wants more, much more, than palestinians back to the west bank. Learn from Afghanistan lessons. What did talibans do there? Why do you think they would act differently? and, most important: facing that, what is the real importance of who is the ultimate responsible of palestinian, or any other cannon fodder's situation? Whatever you try to justify, whatever you say, it will be ill-interpreted.
Face it, we have an enemy around, not outside. Terrorism is its sign. Fanatism is its way of thinking. Death of the enemy is its ultimate goal.
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Nice post Sandman !
(the BBC sure does "think" more than CNN does, doesn't it)
Not that you should care, but my opinion of you increases with every post of yours lately.
People don't hate without a reason.
If you spend any time in that region you understand what most U.S. Citizens don't.
And as for those you think this, anti-policy sentiment is directed at the whole western world... well.. just go to any foreign, non-western country and see how you get treated as a Mexican, American or Canadian.
There is a reason that Canadians travelling outside North America make sure people know they are Canadian.
People worldwide dislike and sometimes hate U.S. policy in regards to trade, foreign relations etc.
If you kick a dog enough it will bite you.
Amazingly enough people are then inclined to say "the dog is nuts" instead of thinking...hmmm. "maybe WE made the dog angry".
What do you think would have happened with Germany post-ww2 if they had been treated the same way they were after ww1 ?
More people should go to other countries so they can REALLY understand what it's all about.
As the reporter said:
"One clear danger is that, under pressure to punish hard and fast, the Americans will lash out in a way that will reap more innocent victims and intensify hatreds and grievances, without getting at the root of the problem. "
Vietnam....Israel/Palistine...Panama...
Nicaragua..El Salvador........
U.S. Government:
Get the bastards who did this and then start changing the way you deal with some countries otherwise it will probably happen again.
[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: Snoopi ]
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Originally posted by Eagler:
real black and white to me..
if you cheer the death of Americans, you are my enemy ... period.
Fine - i agree. Just lets not tar them all with the same brush. Those who did NOT cheer are not (necessarily) my enemies. And, from what I can see, most of them did not. Any Palistinian who doesn't realize how much damage was done to their cause is missing the point - and quite a few cans from their six-pack.
- Yoj
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USA supports no genocide. However, certain factions and religious groups in the middle east make it a part of their religion for the eradication of the Israelis as well as Westerners with Americans at the "head of the snake." For years, they have stated an open war upon us! I guess we only accept an inviation to war when we suffer severe loss. We support Israel only so much so that they may defend themselves and not so that they can invade or make war on neighboring states. Politics aside, Israel would've been a very powerful force to have included in Desert Storm but for the sake of stability we asked them to refrain from attacks even though the Saddam attempted to bring them in. And though I'm not anywhere near to being an expert on the region, I have for years wondered why the Palestinians make a big stink about their lost land when they lost it by attempting to invade Israel to take THEIR lands. Israel kicked their butts back and took a little land to keep as a buffer zone. You make war, be prepared to lose and prior to the 20th Century, you would lose ALL. But as with most things, it's not always so simple. Those lands have been controlled by so many states going back to before zero BC and so it's tough to state whose land it rightly belongs to. It's time to try to get along.
However, war has been declared on us and is it beyond reason to consider they may lose all if we accept?
"Your god may show you mercy, but we will not." -McCain.
[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: Steven ]
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Hey Snoopie why dont you get your head out of your bellybutton and wake up. Jesus, people like you make me sick. The United States does MORE for various nations around the world than ANY other. We foot out more hard cash that ANY other nation. In major disasters we are ALWAYS there. We make our mistakes but anybody that paints us as some arrogent tyranical power can diddly off. People like YOU most likely set back and justified Hitlers march though Europe... after all the allies brought it on thier selfs with the treaty of Versailles correct? Pearl Harbor happened due to America's trade policies w/Japan nodoubt as well correct. Go burn an American flag and STFU.
xBAT
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Originally posted by Eagler:
Sandman
I don't cheer when I hear about innocent men, women and children anywhere being killed for whatever reason. I don't think any CIVILIZED society would.
really? you don't get a little smile when they wax some 'dirty ragheads' eagler?
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Originally posted by batdog:
Hey Snoopie why dont you get your head out of your bellybutton and wake up. Jesus, people like you make me sick. The United States does MORE for various nations around the world than ANY other. We foot out more hard cash that ANY other nation. In major disasters we are ALWAYS there. We make our mistakes but anybody that paints us as some arrogent tyranical power can diddly off. People like YOU most likely set back and justified Hitlers march though Europe... after all the allies brought it on thier selfs with the treaty of Versailles correct? Pearl Harbor happened due to America's trade policies w/Japan nodoubt as well correct. Go burn an American flag and STFU.
xBAT
Nice language...
You read too much into my post.
I meant EXACTLY what I posted and nothing more.
-No.. Pearl Habor was not caused by the U.S.
-WW2 was started by scumball lunatics.. but the conditions in which they was able to get to power in Germany were caused by the Versailles treaty.
Yeah the U.S. does help people out around the world.
I have personally spent a lot of time travelling and consider U.S. Citizens to be great in general.
No the U.S. is not a tyrannical power.
But U.S. Policy, no matter what the initial intent, has caused a lot of problems in some countries, especially for the average, innocent people in those countries.
As soon as you pick sides in a conflict between 2 other parties, don't be surprised when one side gets mad at you.
Unless you spend time doing relief work in foreign countries you most likely will never understand. What you see on the news and what most people are told is not the whole story.
But..None of this in any way condones or excuses what happened.
Terrorists are scum and should be eliminated.
If done correctly, the terrorist groups will no longer have anyone angry enough that they can brainwash and recruit.
Like I said:
"U.S. Government:
Get the bastards who did this and then start changing the way you deal with some countries otherwise it will probably happen again."
We don't ever want this to happen again.
Canadians (and a lot more nations) will be there to help prevent it.
As for the U.S. Flag.. I temporarily have 1 flying beside my Canadian one on my home. Both at 1/2 mast..
[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: Snoopi ]