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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: DMGOD on January 12, 2011, 06:38:30 PM

Title: LA-7
Post by: DMGOD on January 12, 2011, 06:38:30 PM
How is the LA 7 not perked and more so how did it go from a 5 eny to an 8? What am I missing?
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Reaper90 on January 12, 2011, 06:52:30 PM
meh.

marginal cannons (compared to other "cannon birds"), short range, average (at best) low speed handling, poor high altitude performance.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Amaazee on January 12, 2011, 06:55:41 PM
Let the flaming begin... :bolt:
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: DMGOD on January 12, 2011, 06:56:46 PM
out accelerates almost everything in game, amazingly fast and 450 rounds of cannon
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: BiPoLaR on January 12, 2011, 06:58:22 PM
lala is easier to fly than the spit 16 is for me.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: BillyD on January 12, 2011, 07:02:13 PM
out accelerates almost everything in game, amazingly fast and 450 rounds of cannon

This is true, but on the other hand it def got nerfed a bit a few patches back compared to when I started in AH in terms of slow speed handling ( has a wierd wing drop stall now thats tough to get out of without alt )  Still a great fighter tho...8 Eny suits it well.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: bj229r on January 12, 2011, 07:07:26 PM
I seem to get a lotta maneuver kills on em in the d11....mebbe because mostly noobs fly em
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Reaper90 on January 12, 2011, 07:10:42 PM
out accelerates almost everything in game, amazingly fast and 450 rounds of cannon

I don't think eny of 5 would be inappropriate, but perked? Then one must also perk the Spixteen, D pony, etc etc etc

Like I said.. poor range, marginal cannons (regardless of ammo capacity), poor high alt performance, etc..

It has lots of strengths, true, but it not without faults...... if it came with drop tanks and cannons with a little better ballistics the YEH it might deserve perks.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: oakranger on January 12, 2011, 07:29:17 PM
I really do not find the La-7 that hard to fight....epically when i am in a D-25.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: DMGOD on January 12, 2011, 07:34:46 PM
I don't think eny of 5 would be inappropriate, but perked? Then one must also perk the Spixteen, D pony, etc etc etc

Like I said.. poor range, marginal cannons (regardless of ammo capacity), poor high alt performance, etc..

It has lots of strengths, true, but it not without faults...... if it came with drop tanks and cannons with a little better ballistics the YEH it might deserve perks.
I am 100% ok with perking the spixteen the d I'm not entirely in agreement with
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Masherbrum on January 12, 2011, 07:39:27 PM
meh.

marginal cannons (compared to other "cannon birds"), short range, average (at best) low speed handling, poor high altitude performance.

Please tell me you're being sarcastic. 
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Slash27 on January 12, 2011, 07:48:18 PM
Crap plane. I wouldn't be caught dead in it.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Reaper90 on January 12, 2011, 07:49:57 PM
No, I wasn't intending it that way.

Enlighten me, sir, as to why my impressions are not accurate....

post script:  I said "impressions" - as in, based on my time flying this plane compared to others in this game. I do not claim to be an authority on all details LA-7 or any other plane for that matter.... just plain old "seat of the pant" opinions on my part.....
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: ink on January 12, 2011, 07:50:09 PM
LA~7     great bird, should be in the 5 range or even a small perk,  I still think every plane should be perked:-) Oak I dont think many vets fly it, if they did you would see it differently LA7 will eat any 47, except over 10K were it just goes down hill......one of the best low altitude fighters of the intire war. ~if not the best, from what ive read.    great for comming into a hourd trying to take a base, and disrupting there day :-)      if ya up from the nearest base, drop your RPM's  and still can do 300mph get ya there fast,  have enough fuel to wreck havoc, kill all there goons.....lol     once you get the guns down that is, many dont realize how deadly it is they use it as a BnZer almost exclusivly, put it in the hands of someone who knows it......look out that thing is wicked
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: oakranger on January 12, 2011, 08:00:40 PM
LA~7     great bird, should be in the 5 range or even a small perk,  I still think every plane should be perked:-) Oak I dont think many vets fly it, if they did you would see it differently LA7 will eat any 47, except over 10K were it just goes down hill......one of the best low altitude fighters of the intire war. ~if not the best, from what ive read.    great for comming into a hourd trying to take a base, and disrupting there day :-)      if ya up from the nearest base, drop your RPM's  and still can do 300mph get ya there fast,  have enough fuel to wreck havoc, kill all there goons.....lol     once you get the guns down that is, many dont realize how deadly it is they use it as a BnZer almost exclusivly, put it in the hands of someone who knows it......look out that thing is wicked


Most of the time i fight them is 15-20K.  When i am on the deck, i do make it hard for them to kill me.  I really do not know who the vets are in the La-7. 
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Buzzard7 on January 12, 2011, 08:05:37 PM
How many times did you get shot down by a LA-7 last night DMGOD? The only thing I don't like about it is the unforgiving wicked wing drop at slow speeds. Happens quite often when flying on the egde of a stall turn fighting with turny birds.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: DMGOD on January 12, 2011, 08:07:53 PM
How many times did you get shot down by a LA-7 last night DMGOD? The only thing I don't like about it is the unforgiving wicked wing drop at slow speeds. Happens quite often when flying on the egde of a stall turn fighting with turny birds.
i get shot down a lot everyday. Has nothing to do with this post. I just don't comprehend how the LA7 is a 8 eny and not perked.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Buzzard7 on January 12, 2011, 08:11:33 PM
Well as others have said. Short legs,450rounds of very poor ballistics 20mm,does'nt take hits well in some areas. If you HO with it you will lose at least two guns in the pass. Fly it more often you might like it.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: DMGOD on January 12, 2011, 08:14:50 PM
Well as others have said. Short legs,450rounds of very poor ballistics 20mm,does'nt take hits well in some areas. If you HO with it you will lose at least two guns in the pass. Fly it more often you might like it.
If you feather prop a bit u get plenty of travel in it. 450 rounds of 20mm even if bad ballistics still plenty enough for 5+ kills. Hard to hit something if u can't catch it and if you know anything avoiding ho is easiest thing in game
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: mechanic on January 12, 2011, 08:15:34 PM
best low alt short range interceptor in the game, or at least top 3.
love the la7, she's beautiful.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: ink on January 12, 2011, 08:24:57 PM
ya Oak no vet is gonna take an LA over 10k, its performance is crippled up there,  big time.  I Cant see charts on my phone but im sure if ya checked it out you would see large performance drop starting at 10k and just getting worse from there the higher you go, one thing I do like about it it is VERY hard to compress, the nose just wants to go up....it seems like it will pull itself out of compression lol       it has awesome high speed manuevering, holds E great, regains it, and the wing drop is easy to control with some rudder, if ya havnt flown it much, take it up for a month youll be suprized at how vicious it is. Just keep it under 10K.         you can reverse a zero so fast in that thing lol the guns are a bit whacky but hit very hard once ya get the hang of them. Which I still dont have haha             
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Reaper90 on January 12, 2011, 08:25:06 PM
Well as others have said. Short legs,450rounds of very poor ballistics 20mm,does'nt take hits well in some areas. If you HO with it you will lose at least two guns in the pass. Fly it more often you might like it.

The LA-7's guns and range are its weakest points in my opinion (compared to other 5-eny and perk rides, mind you). As a point of observation, the LA-7 was my primary ride for over a year. I think I have the aiming of the cannons down. This tour I have been flying the Typhoon and Tempest almost exclusively (yes, I am a dweeb like that  :D ). You talk about cannons OH BOY. 4 Hispanos compared to 3 ruskie 20mm's? I'm nailing high angle deflection shots from twice to three times the range that I would even attempt when in the LA-7. Unless you're dead 6 on a con who's being nice and holding still, the LA needs to be inside 400 and closer to 200 to kill quickly. I would put the hitting power of the LA-7's cannons well below that of any 4 Hispano equipt bird, and probably equal to 6 0.50's or the Spit's loadout of 2 0.50's and 2 20mms.

But that's just my observation.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Buzzard7 on January 12, 2011, 08:29:23 PM
Well I already told you I am not that good,but I can avoid the HO when I want. Don't much care if I go into a HO because I am gonna hit with cannons and the plane. Lately I have been coming out on the flying end of the collision. If you point your nose at me expect the collision cause I won't avoid it. The planes are free.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: pervert on January 12, 2011, 08:32:10 PM
How is the LA 7 not perked and more so how did it go from a 5 eny to an 8? What am I missing?

Its a harder plane to fight in now, it used to be what the spit16 is today in the MA.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Reaper90 on January 12, 2011, 08:41:59 PM
Its a harder plane to fight in now, it used to be what the spit16 is today in the MA.

I don't know at what point the LA-7 was "nerfed" but I can say that compared to the Spit 16, the LA is no where near as "easy mode" as the Spixteen.

For me flying the LA-7, killing baddies, and making it home alive was a study in knowing what and whom to engage, for how long, and when you needed to get out and use the speed to "reset" whatever advantage you had lost if you didn't land the kill on the first shot or two.

Really no different than flying the Typhoon, the only differences being the Typhoon is much easier to kill with on the first gun solution, but if you miss the shot the Tiffy wants you to disengage and reset instead of trying to stay in and turn fight like you can sometimes get away with in the LA-7...
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: BiPoLaR on January 12, 2011, 08:49:49 PM
Its a harder plane to fight in now, it used to be what the spit16 is today in the MA.
Like I said. The LA7 is easier to fly than the spit 16 is for me. Love the LA. Its a great tard chaser and Hotard killer.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Dichotomy on January 12, 2011, 09:29:57 PM
Crap plane. I wouldn't be caught dead in it.

you do realize now that if I outlive you I will make it a life goal to put an LA7 sticker on your casket don't you? :D

Oh and yes I hate them.. very much
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: TonyJoey on January 12, 2011, 10:41:40 PM
If you feather prop a bit u get plenty of travel in it. 450 rounds of 20mm even if bad ballistics still plenty enough for 5+ kills. Hard to hit something if u can't catch it and if you know anything avoiding ho is easiest thing in game

When speaking of range, feathering the prop isn't really all that useful. Of course I coulod fly most efficient setting, and feather the prop, but that isn't very practical. Whn talking about performance, it has great acceleration, top speed, views, roll, and overall turning ability. With that said, the ballistics are marginal, and the range isn't anything to write home about. All things considered, it should be ENY 5 IMO.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: TinmanX on January 12, 2011, 10:44:15 PM
Ya can't perk the LA and let the Spixteensquelch lie. That plane is a monstrosity.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: AWwrgwy on January 12, 2011, 11:05:10 PM
Wow.  I haven't seen a "perk the LA7 thread in years.

They were all the rage when I first started playing.

LA7 use seemed to drop off when the graphics were updated.  Harder to see out of.

Otherwise, it's just dandy where it is.


wrongway
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: 321BAR on January 12, 2011, 11:07:57 PM
meh.

marginal cannons (compared to other "cannon birds"), short range, average (at best) low speed handling, poor high altitude performance.
Ive outdone many an enemy in the La7 with a bit of skill put into it. low speed handling is awkward at first but you can still do some stuff in it
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: phatzo on January 12, 2011, 11:18:36 PM
I spent a lot of time in La7s getting ready for Krupp Storm Red Steel because I had to lead a regiment of them. To be effective on the battle field for a long term was my biggest challenge. Its most fuel efficient at 22k but you need to fight under 10k, quite a challenge, find enemy then coax them into your realm. This alone makes it a pain in the Kaiber Pass and is probably why it is not perked.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Reaper90 on January 12, 2011, 11:46:32 PM
Ive outdone many an enemy in the La7 with a bit of skill put into it. low speed handling is awkward at first but you can still do some stuff in it

No doubt BAR, I've killed many a Spitfire in rolling low-speed fights with flaps out.... but it takes a lot of working the plane and dancing on the rudder pedals with just the right amount of throttle... but that ain't where that plane wants to be. That's the difference... that type of fight is effortless in a spitfire, you need a drink after living through it in an LA.  :lol
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: --)SF---- on January 13, 2011, 12:52:45 AM
It's a crappy plane, I hate it, would never fly it.     :huh
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: phatzo on January 13, 2011, 01:05:38 AM
It's a crappy plane, I hate it, would never fly it.     :huh
lol
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Ruah on January 13, 2011, 02:40:36 AM
defo not perk worthy.  Its a strong late war plane with on really good strong point (speed) and a few weak points (wepons, abrupt stall).

Slow it down and you can get it to auger a lot.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Nightmare on January 13, 2011, 02:44:15 AM
They should perk ALL late war plane's!
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: 321BAR on January 13, 2011, 05:50:05 AM
defo not perk worthy.  Its a strong late war plane with on really good strong point (speed) and a few weak points (wepons, abrupt stall).

Slow it down and you can get it to auger a lot.
3 B20s are not weak at all... few well placed rounds and the baby bird in front of you is going byebye. Its just the drop rate of the russian 20s that get ya and the ammo load
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Masherbrum on January 13, 2011, 06:53:26 AM
I've never augered from a stall in an La-7.  Then again, I don't use flaps, so that might explain some of it. 

Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Ruah on January 13, 2011, 07:01:56 AM
3 B20s are not weak at all... few well placed rounds and the baby bird in front of you is going byebye. Its just the drop rate of the russian 20s that get ya and the ammo load

I just can't agree with the desire to perk more planes. The LA7 is dominant under 8k true, but by calling for the LA7 to be prked, you are also going to have to perk the K4, D9, P51, Spit 16 and then there is going to be th next tier of dominant planes which will start the cycle over again - meanwhile we have basically made a game where perks become centrral to success, we have more people who are shy about their perk planes, and it will destroy the pvp enviornment as it is now (which is why people who run make no sensee to me - extention yes, reset yes, run no).

Thee tempest, C-Hog and 4-Hog are unbalancing for sure, and there is a good thread here that is asking for the spit 14 to be unperked - which I agree with.

If people don't want to deal with these late war birds, then there is the MW and EW arenas to fly in.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Saurdaukar on January 13, 2011, 09:09:12 AM
How is the LA 7 not perked and more so how did it go from a 5 eny to an 8? What am I missing?

Didn't you quit?
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: JUGgler on January 13, 2011, 09:10:04 AM
How is the LA 7 not perked and more so how did it go from a 5 eny to an 8? What am I missing?


 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl  STOP! your style is silly   :aok

The only thing reasonable to complain about is the STYLE of play  :aok

silly "rainbow" monkey


JUGgler
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: R 105 on January 13, 2011, 09:29:08 AM
If the Spit 14 is perk worthy the why not the LA-7. I would jump over the 14 to fly the LA. It is at least a eny 5 bird.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Zoney on January 13, 2011, 09:29:11 AM
Well I already told you I am not that good,but I can avoid the HO when I want. Don't much care if I go into a HO because I am gonna hit with cannons and the plane. Lately I have been coming out on the flying end of the collision. If you point your nose at me expect the collision cause I won't avoid it. The planes are free.


Wow!  You are awesome dude, rock on.  :confused:
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: dedalos on January 13, 2011, 09:40:08 AM

  I really do not know who the vets are in the La-7. 

No vet with any self respect would ever fly a LALA.  Plus, as many said, the plane just sucks  :old:
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: dedalos on January 13, 2011, 09:49:18 AM
Wow.  I haven't seen a "perk the LA7 thread in years.

They were all the rage when I first started playing.

LA7 use seemed to drop off when the graphics were updated.  Harder to see out of.

Otherwise, it's just dandy where it is.


wrongway

Nah, its not the views.  Its the goofy damage it takes (2 guns and PW) most of the time and the existence of the Spit16 and others.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: waystin2 on January 13, 2011, 10:05:25 AM
Wow.  I haven't seen a "perk the LA7 thread in years.

They were all the rage when I first started playing.

LA7 use seemed to drop off when the graphics were updated.  Harder to see out of.

Otherwise, it's just dandy where it is.


wrongway

Took the words out of my mouth Wrong!  The LA-7 was right up there with the Spit 16 as far as whines were concerned when I first started back in 2007.  It's current ENY seems correct based on it's usage, capabilities, and impact on the game.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Slash27 on January 13, 2011, 10:22:53 AM
No vet with any self respect would ever fly a LALA.  Plus, as many said, the plane just sucks  :old:
I fly it all the time :(
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: dedalos on January 13, 2011, 10:29:14 AM
I fly it all the time :(

I said no self respecting vet.  :old:  I wont even go near that dweeb ride  ;)
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Ruah on January 13, 2011, 12:19:34 PM
what are you saying man!!  The LA7 is a great plane, and under 8k I will take my La7 up against any plane out there.  Its not a super easy plan to master - but its not a super hard plane lik the 109s to master either.

But perk worthy?  hellz no.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: oakranger on January 13, 2011, 01:11:28 PM
No vet with any self respect would ever fly a LALA.  Plus, as many said, the plane just sucks  :old:

Maybe i miss understood what ink said.  I thought he was talking about the vet that know how to fly the La-7 in a deadly way. 
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: oakranger on January 13, 2011, 01:15:38 PM
ya Oak no vet is gonna take an LA over 10k, its performance is crippled up there,  big time.  I Cant see charts on my phone but im sure if ya checked it out you would see large performance drop starting at 10k and just getting worse from there the higher you go, one thing I do like about it it is VERY hard to compress, the nose just wants to go up....it seems like it will pull itself out of compression lol       it has awesome high speed manuevering, holds E great, regains it, and the wing drop is easy to control with some rudder, if ya havnt flown it much, take it up for a month youll be suprized at how vicious it is. Just keep it under 10K.         you can reverse a zero so fast in that thing lol the guns are a bit whacky but hit very hard once ya get the hang of them. Which I still dont have haha             

I did not know that it can not compress easy.  There where times that i drop on a GV from 7-8k and having a La-7 chasing me at the same time.  Most of backed off in the chase and a few just slam into the ground as i pull out of the dive. 
La-7, FU4-1A, C, 4 and spits 16 are my toughest opponent to fight when i am in the D-25.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: dedalos on January 13, 2011, 02:00:19 PM
Maybe i miss understood what ink said.  I thought he was talking about the vet that know how to fly the La-7 in a deadly way. 

Unpossible!  They are so easy mode, every one is deadly in them.  Ask, they will tell you  :old:
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Slash27 on January 13, 2011, 02:18:23 PM
Kappa and SF are pretty good in them.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: JUGgler on January 13, 2011, 02:20:53 PM
I said no self respecting vet.  :old:  I wont even go near that dweeb ride  ;)


 :rofl :rofl :rofl   :bolt:
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: dedalos on January 13, 2011, 02:33:39 PM
Kappa and SF are pretty good in them.

See?  Told you they are easy mode  :old:

Juggler, go away!  :furious
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: --)SF---- on January 13, 2011, 02:36:08 PM
Kappa and SF are pretty good in them.

Thanks Slash but i never fly that dweeb ride.  Ever I tell ya.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: ink on January 13, 2011, 02:47:05 PM
maybe I need to spit out Deds hook but he caught me good.......The LA is a great plane that is awesome to fight against the hourd, why you and others dont like it I just cant understand, I dont fly it as often as I used to,I was enjoying the KI84.... you being a vet should know there are No dweeb planes just dweeb sticks, any "vet" who doesnt realize that is well just a dweeb himself....and never before have I thought of you like that.....once again I say  THERE ARE NO DWEEB PLANES JUST DWEEB STICKS.....PERIOD                              Oak I didnt mean it was impossable to compress just hard to get it to.....and like Kar said Ive never augerd the LA ether and I do use flaps get it low and slow and have out manouvered zero's on the deck.....again you fight the stick not so much the plane.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: --)SF---- on January 13, 2011, 02:53:04 PM
On a serious note, you guys over look the Lala's greatest asset.  It's ability to run down any non perked runtard in the game.  Nuthin irritates me more that a 1 pass runtard.  I have taken it upon myself to kill every runtard that I encounter, it's like my personal mission from GOD (not you DMgod ya dweeb)

on a side note, Ded's haven't seen you up in awhile, time for an epic lala fite.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: --)SF---- on January 13, 2011, 02:54:00 PM
See?  Told you they are easy mode  :old:

Juggler, go away!  :furious

I resemble that remark!   :aok
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: oakranger on January 13, 2011, 03:58:50 PM
maybe I need to spit out Deds hook but he caught me good.......The LA is a great plane that is awesome to fight against the hourd, why you and others dont like it I just cant understand, I dont fly it as often as I used to,I was enjoying the KI84.... you being a vet should know there are No dweeb planes just dweeb sticks, any "vet" who doesnt realize that is well just a dweeb himself....and never before have I thought of you like that.....once again I say  THERE ARE NO DWEEB PLANES JUST DWEEB STICKS.....PERIOD                              Oak I didnt mean it was impossable to compress just hard to get it to.....and like Kar said Ive never augerd the LA ether and I do use flaps get it low and slow and have out manouvered zero's on the deck.....again you fight the stick not so much the plane.

I know what you are talking about in the compress i just do not know much as far as its ability on a dive, when it will compress, and can it pull out of a dive with out damage.   As far as auger, i did fought a La-7 on he deck and forced him to auger into the grown.  It was hilarious because a 190D showed up and did the same. 
How well can the La-7 fight up against a Brewster? 
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: dedalos on January 13, 2011, 04:16:06 PM
 :D  I just think it is funny when people complain about the La7.  There is only one reason they do.  It can run down runstangs and pick90s lol.  To make it worse, once those guys get run down by a lala, they really don't have a chance against it since all they have learned is to run, err extend.

There is another class of people that don;t like the lala.  Spit16 drivers.  The plane has enough power to go up with them and can turn enough to kill them.  Not because it does anything better than the Spit, but because they cant fly.  Therefore, the post about the LA.  Like an ENY of 5 would have save them lol.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: DMGOD on January 13, 2011, 05:01:10 PM
:D  I just think it is funny when people complain about the La7.  There is only one reason they do.  It can run down runstangs and pick90s lol.  To make it worse, once those guys get run down by a lala, they really don't have a chance against it since all they have learned is to run, err extend.

There is another class of people that don;t like the lala.  Spit16 drivers.  The plane has enough power to go up with them and can turn enough to kill them.  Not because it does anything better than the Spit, but because they cant fly.  Therefore, the post about the LA.  Like an ENY of 5 would have save them lol.

I will not take the bait I REFUSE
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: pluck on January 13, 2011, 05:20:45 PM
meh, if you perk the la7, then everyone will whine about the next plane that doesn't have a perk value.  Beides most la pile-its aren't vets.  That said it is a very good plane.  I really think the only issue with the plane is its "legs." Ballistics are ok, I'm sure those who fly it alot can adjust.  Besides, how many cannon rounds to you really need to land anyway?  I bet most turn around to land 2 kills, or die before they are out of ammo.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: B4Buster on January 13, 2011, 05:37:21 PM
Dedalos's second scenario there best describes DMCOD (courtesy of Silat)
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Tilt on January 13, 2011, 05:41:00 PM
The La7 is an easy enough ac to fly in AH. Its not as common place as it used to be. ... and as the perk system is an arena balancing tool not a uber ride penalty tool the move from 5 to 8 seems to reflect that.

In summary it a fast, low alt, high g fighter that requires you to get in close to make use of its armaments.

Its strange that folk refer to its low speed handling being nerfed. If so it was very subtle. Stall recovery for me is no different to before.

I think the flap drag is heavier (than it once was) and as the La7 was never intended (or ever really did) see combat as a stall fighting uber slow speed fully flapped beast then any change in that direcion was accurate imo.

Big change of many moons ago was its comparative mid range acceleration in dive. I can remember when nothing  (with a prop) could out dive an La7. IMO this was wrong. Even a BF109G4 would out dive an La7 (in RL) once the initial phase of acceleration was overcome...and now in AH P51's, Doras, 109 K's as well as faster Spits will out accelerate or stay with the La7 in dive (400 to 450) which was never the case 5 years ago. Further it seems to me that high speed (out of dive) high g manovers bleed E a little faster(in AH) in the La7 (in comparaison to many of the above) than would have happened  years ago. Again this seems right to me ...........

The shvak and the B20 are by far the weakest 20mm's in the game. If we perked load outs and used an historical basis for doing so then the  3 x B20 would be due for some sort of perk. Well AH uses neither criteria. You have to get close.

If you want a challenge in an La7 then just commit to a  co alt, co e dog fight with the bulk of 44/45 fighters at any where between 12K and 20K.  OK you can disengage and dive away but you lost the fight in doing so.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: pervert on January 13, 2011, 05:48:21 PM
Its weird to think the spit v was once an uber plane  :D
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: TUK on January 13, 2011, 05:49:34 PM
Loves the lil buggers'(LA7)..  Has become my exclusive plane... For the  6 sorties I fly a month lol.. :airplane:
(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/6985/la75.jpg)
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: ink on January 13, 2011, 08:39:54 PM
Oak~depending on situation I would use the climb of LA to get above the brew once the brew gets slow its easy meat,drop and make slashing attacks,not allowing it to regain any sorta E,most people when they see an LA7 they think its gonna BnZ them so you can catch most by suprise by a quick revesal if the brew pilot is good it obviously wont be so easy to catch them unaware,the thing with the LA is its high speed maneuvering,plus its ability to regain speed,working the angles against the real great turners,I will wait till I am below there nose to reverse so they dont see it,against the real speed demons using the climbing scissors,when I fight I dont think about what I am doing or gonna do next,I use the nme cons position and E state,try do what it takes to get crossing shots,or to saddle them,saddleing someone is defenitily not the best option though, a dead 6 shot is actually harder to hit even though many here seem to think otherwise, once im back we can get some practice in fighting against it. <S>
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: dedalos on January 14, 2011, 09:41:36 AM
Bat,

I think it is time  :lol
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on January 14, 2011, 11:28:23 AM
The only real shortcoming of LA7 is it's range when attacking. That can be extended to insane amounts by throttling back and dropping rpm. The LA7 flies on idle the top speed of a brewster if you allow a little exaggeration.

I think I'll fly this tour in La7, I almost forgot about the plane.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: mechanic on January 14, 2011, 05:40:15 PM
Bat,

I think it is time 

 :D
Here is the first one Ded, what an awesome fight too.

http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/LA7-1.ahf


Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: gpwurzel on January 14, 2011, 08:35:59 PM
Nice flying Ded, enjoyed watching that one..


Wurzel
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Ruah on January 15, 2011, 05:37:22 PM
nice rolling. . . the brew came back too. . . good stuff.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: rvflyer on January 15, 2011, 05:52:15 PM
If you feather prop a bit u get plenty of travel in it. 450 rounds of 20mm even if bad ballistics still plenty enough for 5+ kills. Hard to hit something if u can't catch it and if you know anything avoiding ho is easiest thing in game

 :airplane: How do you feather the prop?
Feathering a prop means turning the blades to a position that creates the least amount of drag on a engine failure.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: ink on January 15, 2011, 05:59:48 PM
RVflyer...I just decrease the rpm's, to extend it further dethrottle, thats not nessesary though.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: rvflyer on January 15, 2011, 06:03:05 PM
RVflyer...I just decrease the rpm's, to extend it further dethrottle, thats not nessesary though.

Yeah in the game you are right it is just reducing power to extend distance.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: ink on January 15, 2011, 06:10:07 PM
you can fly a sector if the rpm's are dropped to I think around 25~20 once you get there youll still have almost a full tank hehe
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: DMGOD on January 15, 2011, 10:12:34 PM
you can fly a sector if the rpm's are dropped to I think around 25~20 once you get there youll still have almost a full tank hehe
bring it back to 20 @ 10 k and have about 40 minutes of flight time at 325 level flight
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: JUGgler on January 16, 2011, 02:43:30 AM
Dedalos's second scenario there best describes DMCOD  (courtesy of Silat)



    :rofl



JUGgler
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: SectorNine50 on January 16, 2011, 03:56:56 AM
When speaking of range, feathering the prop isn't really all that useful. Of course I coulod fly most efficient setting, and feather the prop, but that isn't very practical. Whn talking about performance, it has great acceleration, top speed, views, roll, and overall turning ability. With that said, the ballistics are marginal, and the range isn't anything to write home about. All things considered, it should be ENY 5 IMO.

What?  Lowering RPM's is one of the best ways to extend your range...  That's why a lot of aircraft's cruise settings at altitude are RPMs down, full throttle.  Look at an E6B when you come back to max cruise RPM, even without changing throttle position, you gain a TON of range.

Higher RPMs = more explosions per second (which means more fuel per second).
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: hellwolf on January 17, 2011, 07:10:31 AM
At 20k u can fly 2 or more sectors on 10% throttle at 200mph with enough fuel to fight on wep for 5-8mins and crawl home!
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Anaxogoras on January 17, 2011, 10:07:46 AM
You guys know that the La-7 and La-5FN could both carry two 80L drop tanks, right?
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: dedalos on January 18, 2011, 10:33:34 AM
Nice flying Ded, enjoyed watching that one..


Wurzel

Told ya, lala only good for newbes to run and HO with.  No vet would ever fly one  :D
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: bj229r on January 18, 2011, 10:37:13 AM
You guys know that the La-7 and La-5FN could both carry two 80L drop tanks, right?
not modeled here........there IS a God :aok
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: SectorNine50 on January 18, 2011, 12:14:28 PM
not modeled here........there IS a God :aok

Why didnt they model them?  Were they not used very often or something?
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Anaxogoras on January 18, 2011, 12:49:31 PM
The eastern front featured very short flying distances to reach the combat area, around 30-50km, so I doubt they were needed very often.  It's not the size of the gas tank that hurts the La-5/7 so much as the fuel burn multiplier.  Still, there were probably more La-7s flying with drop tanks than sporting 3x20mm. ;)

It's funny, though, because the hard points are there for those little bombs, but for our purposes drop tanks would put them to better use.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Tilt on January 18, 2011, 04:29:01 PM
In all the data I have on Lavochkins La 5 /7 I have never seen a reference to an external drop tank.

The early Lagg3 did have the facility to take external drop tanks on its bomb shackles. It also had the facility to take 6 x M82 rockets.

Re endurance of the La7 plse see below

Approved. 1st Deputy Chief of GK NII VVS Losyukov. 6 Jan 1945.

                          REPORT No 2
on results of flight trials for fuel consumption and range measurements
of La-7 No38103254 with ASh-82FN engine and VISh-105V-4 propeller.

                     The object of research

La-7 No 38103254 produced by plant No 381... Total weight 3265 kg, fuel tanks
capacity - 460 litres. The landing-gear and the tail wheel were up,
the canopy was closed, the cap of oil-cooler and the skirt of engine cowl
were set "along the flood" (feathered).

                    The results of the tests.

The measurements of fuel consumption with working engine had been carried
out on the ground and during a climb at max climb rate. As a result it has
been established that fuel consumption of a working engine is 2.35 l/min
on the ground (during warm-up and engine test, taxiing to and from the
starting position).

Fuel consumption at climb to H at maximum climb rate mode, in litres
                          n=2400RPM

H,m       1000    2000    3000    4000    5000    6000    7000
Q,litres    15      25      35      45      55      65      80
IAS, km/h  270     270     270     265     260     255     250


Chart of range and level flight duration of a/c La-7 No38103254 at different
flight modes at V/n=const (constant speed and RPM), G tot=3265kg (total
weight) and V fuel=460 l (fuel volume)

n,   Supercharg. Speed, km/h     q,      Qf,       Till the dry tank:
RPM  pressure,    IAS    TAS  lit./km  lit./h    Range of    Level flight
     mm of merc.                               level flight,   duration,
     pile                                          km           h-min

H=1000m (1st speed of supercharger), fuel supply for level flight - 365 l

2400   1020       575    608   1.020     620       355          0-35
2200    875       530    560   0.800     448       455          0-49
2000    745       480    508   0.655     333       555          1-06
1800    665       430    455   0.585     266       625          1-22
1600    610       385    407   0.560     228       650          1-36
1500    580       360    380   0.550     209       665          1-45

H=3000m (1st speed of supercharger), fuel supply for level flight - 345 l

2400    990       554    644   0.975     628       355          0-33
2200    830       510    588   0.745     438       460          0-47
2000    705       460    532   0.620     330       555          1-03
1800    615       415    480   0.575     276       600          1-15
1600    560       370    428   0.555     238       620          1-27
1500    545       345    400   0.550     220       625          1-34

H=5000m (2nd speed of supercharger), fuel supply for level flight - 325 l

2400   1020       513    658   0.910     600       355          0-32
2200    840       470    604   0.700     423       465          0-46
2000    720       430    554   0.600     333       540          0-58
1800    630       385    496   0.560     278       580          1-10
1600    590       340    440   0.550     242       590          1-20

H=7000m (2nd speed of supercharger), fuel supply for level flight - 300 l

2400    870       454    647   0.735     476       405          0-38
2200    685       415    593   0.570     338       525          0-53
2000    590       380    544   0.500     272       600          1-06
1800    515       340    490   0.460     225       650          1-20
1600    465       300    433   0.450     195       665          1-32

Notes:

1. For range and flight duration calculations the following fuel consumptions
are taken into account:


a) for engine work on the ground (warming-up and engine test, taxiing to and
from the start) 35 l per 15 min;

b) for climb to: 1000m - 15 l; 3000 m - 55 l; 7000 m - 80 l;
c) for circle flight before landing - 45 l.

2. To obtain the values of technical range and flight duration add the
following range and time figures to the table values respectively:
1000m -  5km, 1 min
3000m - 15km, 3 min
5000m - 25km, 5 min
7000m - 40km, 8 min


The table of range and flight duration for La-7 No 38103254 with
G full=3265kg, full tank fuel supply - 460 l.

Mode   Mode values                                      Level flight
                                                      up to dry tanks:
                                                     Range, km     duration,
                                                                   h-min
                                                                   
Max.   H=1000m(1st sup.sp.),n=2400, Ps=1020mm Me.pl.    355        0-35
speed    3000  1              2400      990             355        0-33
         5000  2              2400     1020             355        0-32
         7000  2              2400      870             405        0-38

Fast   H=1000m(1st sup.sp.),n=2160, IAS=518 km/h        485        0-53
range    3000  1              2160      498             490        0-51
(0.9     5000  2              2160      462             485        0-49
Vmax)    7000  2              2160      408             545        0-56

Near   H=5000m(2nd sup.sp.),n=1810, IAS=388 km/h        580        1-10
fast range                          TAS=500 km/h

Optim. H=1000m(1st sup.sp.),n=1500, IAS=360 km/h        665        1-45
mode     3000  1              1500      345             625        1-34
         5000  2              1600      340             590        1-20
         7000  2              1600      300             665        1-32

Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Anaxogoras on January 18, 2011, 05:55:25 PM
Woah, don't overwhelm me with that tidal wave of red text.  I could very well be wrong about the La-5/7 being able to carry drop tanks, but I've seen a few things that suggest that they were an option.

I've seen model kits with external fuel tanks.

Range specifications list 395miles for the La-7 on internal fuel, but at other times the range is given as 475miles.

Drop tanks are a loadout option in Il-2.

But, again, it might not have carried them.  It would be nice to hear from someone who's well read on the aircraft.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Shane on January 18, 2011, 06:49:47 PM
But, again, it might not have carried them.  It would be nice to hear from someone who's well read on the aircraft.

that would be....

tilt...

 :bolt:
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Masherbrum on January 18, 2011, 07:02:01 PM
that would be....

tilt...

 :bolt:

Sup bro!   :rock
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Anaxogoras on January 18, 2011, 07:49:46 PM
that would be....

tilt...

 :bolt:

If tilt is the resident Lavochkin authority then I'll take his word for it.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Slash27 on January 18, 2011, 08:00:42 PM
Speaking of good La 7 drivers
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Masherbrum on January 18, 2011, 08:28:21 PM
Speaking of good La 7 drivers

He was a better D-11 stick on top of it. 
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: sam367 on January 18, 2011, 11:58:18 PM

Comrades are mistaken , Lavochkin’s never had droop tahnks. Once fool of vodka we vood never drop them.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: JUGgler on January 19, 2011, 12:04:45 AM
Comrades are mistaken , Lavochkin’s never had droop tahnks. Once fool of vodka we vood never drop them.

 :huh
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: sunfan1121 on January 19, 2011, 02:02:17 AM
Comrades are mistaken , Lavochkin’s never had droop tahnks. Once fool of vodka we vood never drop them.
:lol
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: 321BAR on January 19, 2011, 05:10:01 AM
What?  Lowering RPM's is one of the best ways to extend your range...  That's why a lot of aircraft's cruise settings at altitude are RPMs down, full throttle.  Look at an E6B when you come back to max cruise RPM, even without changing throttle position, you gain a TON of range.

Higher RPMs = more explosions per second (which means more fuel per second).
feathering only can happen once your prop cant accelerate you anymore (aka you can feather at lower speeds but your throttle must be cut or pulled way back also. Slowing RPMs isnt technically feathering is it?
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: STEELE on January 19, 2011, 06:35:57 AM
La5 feels better to me, especially under 200
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: --)SF---- on January 19, 2011, 09:32:57 AM
La5 feels better to me, especially under 200

LA5 is definitely a better turn fighter than the 7, it's slow speed stall characteristics are not nearly as severe, but it doesn't have the stunning acceleration and top end that the 7 has, plus you get 2/3 of the fire power.
Title: Re: LA-7
Post by: Tilt on January 20, 2011, 05:30:43 PM
If tilt is the resident Lavochkin authority then I'll take his word for it.

No dont do that, read up on it find as many sources as you can......... ask questions, challenge stuff. Where I have data I will share it. I am sure there is still new stuff to find on Lavochkins............ (authorative roll rate data for one...............)

e.g the AH fuel tanks are modelled such that each can feed the engine independantly. This is an error (or a function to simplify COAD across differrng ac types)

Actually both wing tanks drained thru the centre tank via non return valves. So a bighole in the centre  tank drained all the aircrafts fuel! Actually this tank sat under the  rudder pedals directly behind the gear so serious damage in this area took all sorts of stuff out. The tanks were not pressurised beyond 1 bar plus what ever small increase that was earned from the cooled  exhaust gasses ducted to them. Hence the outer wing tanks drained via gravity/G not via a secondary pump/s.

The La5/F (or most of them) used cable control of all air control surfaces. It would have been a bit more "mushy" as a  result.
The La7/5FN  retained cable control for the rudder with the other surfaces controlled by a more positve rod & link system.
La 7 aelerons were improved with respect to balance making its controls lighter than the La5FN's.
Hence there should be a subtle difference in control fidelity between the La7 and the La5Fn as well as authority at higher speeds.

Some other consessions AH has had to make to make game play easier.

There were no toe brakes on the La5/7 just a lever on the joy stick that operated the master (pneumatic) brake valves via bowden cable.
There was no rear wheel stear from the rudder pedals (regardless of the position of the joy stick).

The La5 had a paddle Joystick very similar in grip to the Spit. Albeit that the left right movement also pivoted at floor level.

There were not "stepped" flap positions. Flaps were set by opening and closing a hydraulic valve.

As per many planes in AH the la7 did  have a semi automatic engine management system the fuel/air mixture /boost balance was set by a common lever.
On the la5FN (again most of them) boost and induction settings were achieve by the pilot balancing them..

The la7 had an under carraige 80mm longer than the La5Fn and did not give the hard landing bounce that was experienced on the La5FN (was reduced in later la5Fn series but not cured fully) due to better damping.